Ep. 70: Modernizing ABA Assessment – Flexibility, Self-Awareness, and Real-Life Skills

Every BCBA and teacher has lived the moment: you pour months into an intervention… only to open an assessment and think, “Wait. Where did all that progress go?”

In this episode, Caitlin sits down with Casey Barron and Dr. Anika Hoybjerg—creators of the Meaningful Outcomes Treatment and Assessment Scale (MOTAS)—to talk about why so many traditional tools miss the skills that matter most, and how the MOTAS fills those gaps with flexible, functional, and family-aligned assessment practices.

🔑 Key Takeaways
• Why MOTAS? It addresses gaps in VB-MAPP/ABLLS/AFLS—especially flexibility, perspective taking, self-awareness, and AAC communication.
• Flexibility Matters: Rigid routines often block participation, independence, and community access—yet many assessments don’t measure this growth.
• Generalization Is Built In: The MOTAS scoring system highlights independence and generalization & maintenance from the start.
• One Scoring System: A consistent 0–5 scale across all 20 domains makes scoring faster, clearer, and more useful for treatment planning.
• Insurance-Friendly: The DSM-5 criteria and medical necessity links are included—huge time-savers for BCBAs writing plans and submitting authorizations.
• Comprehensive Without Being Overwhelming: Practitioners can use a whole domain or just supplement missing areas like AAC, self-awareness, or perspective taking.
• Practical for All Ages: Designed for ages 5+, with an early-learner (0–5) version coming in 2026.

📦 Resources & Links
• Learn more about the MOTAS through Different Roads to Learning (ask the creators for their 20% discount!) 
• Follow MOTAS updates from Casey & Anika → anika.hoybjerg@abilearningcenter.com and https://abilearningcenter.com/
• Related Episodes:
Crisis Cycle → https://abainschool.com/ep57
FBA Mini-Series → https://abainschool.com/ep31part1
• Join the Misfit Behaviorists Facebook Group → https://abainschool.com/misfits

🤝 Join Us
💬 Tell us if you’ve tried the MOTAS or want to! Drop your thoughts in the Misfit Behaviorists Facebook Group.
🎧 Subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode.
📢 Tag us on Instagram when you try a goal or domain from the MOTAS—we love seeing what resonates!

Join the Facebook group for collaboration and freebies: The Misfit Behaviorists

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👋 Find us!

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• Caitlin | Beltran’s Behavior Basics
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Transcript

Ep. 70: Modernizing ABA Assessment – Flexibility, Self-Awareness, and Real-Life Skills 

[00:00:00] Casey and Anika: We spent a ton of time, developed this whole intervention to help him understand what flexibility is, what it means, how to be flexible, reinforced along the way. His RBTs were so creative and did amazing things like on the fly. It was great. And I was like, this is amazing. I sat down to do his reassessment to fill out the ABLLS and I was like, it looks like I've done nothing the past six months.

[00:00:20] Intro: Welcome to the Misfit Behaviorist Podcast. Join your hosts, Audra Jensen and Caitlin Beltran here to bring you evidence-based strategies with a student-centered focus. Let's get started.

[00:00:32] Caitlin: Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Misfit Behaviorist. I'm Caitlin, and today I am joined by Casey Barron and Anika Hoybjerg. They are the co-creators of the Meaningful Outcomes Treatment and Assessment Scale, which we are gonna hear a ton about today. And from everything I've researched looks absolutely amazing. So I kind of just wanna dive right in. Casey and or Anika, can you share a little bit about your journeys in ABA, and what inspired you to collaborate on this MOTAS?

[00:00:59] Casey and Anika: So I am Casey. I have been working in ABA for 10 years now. So I started as RBT move through, did my master's in ABA and special education and now I've been at BCBA for five years. Prior to that I was doing respite care with individuals with disabilities and fell into the field by accident and I was like, oh, I'll just do this while I'm finishing undergrad, was preparing to apply to PhD programs in neuropsychology and then some opportunities arose to pursue that path. And that's when I decided I no longer wanted to do it and stuck with ABA. So I've been doing that since 2015. I'm Dr. Anika Hoiberg and I get to work with Casey. I own a center where we do ABA therapy here in Draper, Utah. Prior to that, years ago, I was a school psychologist. And I loved that. I thought it was fantastic. And then somebody really close to me started showing signs of autism. And so I thought, well, we've gotta learn more about this. And so I went and got a couple more master's degrees, opened up the clinic, and then we've been doing that since 2013, so it's been a while. And then just a few years ago, I decided to get my PhD in behavior analysis. Then just in January started working on another Master's in neuroscience and trauma so that we could have the well-rounded part.

[00:02:14] Caitlin: So I'm not sure when either of you sleep, but that is awesome, all that you've been able to do and accomplish. So in speaking a little bit about the assessment tool itself, a lot of our listeners are, and I know myself, are familiar with the VB-MAPP, the ABLLS, the AFLS. What kind of challenges or gaps did you notice with these tools or maybe just other things entirely that sparked your idea of creating something new?

[00:02:37] Casey and Anika: Those are great tools, right? Like everybody's been using the VB-MAPP, Essentials for Living, ABLLS, a lot of others, Vineland and as a school psych, I administered a lot of assessments and Casey did that as well, and so we were really familiar with the assessment process. I was with some really dear friends of mine, Sam Goldstein and Saline Sonia, and they've written different assessments. Seline was part of the Vineland, and they were writing a new diagnostic tool. And so we were talking, I was like, wow, this is really exciting. And then I said, but what I want is something more comprehensive after we get a diagnosis, and the publishers in the room were like, well, why don't you write one? And I'm like, me? I was like, and so I went back to the center and I was like, Casey, let's write an assessment. And luckily she was on board, but we found that there were some gaps. You know, Casey has a caseload still, and especially as we're submitting information to insurance plans and all of these other things, that there were some gaps that weren't being addressed.

[00:03:40] One that Casey's super passionate about, I can tell you is flexibility. That's a big part of the MOTAS. Some of the gaps that I noticed, even as my time as an RBT, but especially as a BCBA, were things that we're really important to families that weren't necessarily showing up in assessment.

[00:03:54] One example, there's a family that I was working with and their little boy had a lot of really structured routines and rigid behavior, and that's like totally fine, you know, in some areas, like it was great and it helped him get through the day. And then in other scenarios it became a barrier. He always wanted his right shoe on and then his left shoe, which we could do. And then there were sometimes if someone didn't know and they would do the opposite order and he would engage in self-injury. Or to get upstairs to our clinic, he wanted to go up one set of stairs slow and the other fast, but the slow part became really, really slow. So it was 40 minutes before we were able to begin a session. He was also going to family events or birthday parties, going in new locations was really challenging for him, and so they weren't always able to get 'em through the door and that was really important to this family. So we worked on it. We spent a ton of time, developed this whole intervention to help him understand what flexibility is, what it means, how to be flexible, reinforced along the way. His RBTs were so creative and did amazing things like on the fly. It was great. And I was like, this is amazing. I sat down to do his reassessment to fill out the ABLLS and I was like, it looks like I've done nothing the past six months. 

[00:05:00] And the families noticed a difference, we noticed a difference and it opened up the doors for him to learn other things, but it wasn't reflected in any assessment tool. And so that was something that we wanted to make sure that we incorporated because, you know, repetitive behaviors or rigid routines or things, they may be barriers to lots of these kids lives. And so we wanted to make sure we had that in there. Uh, some other gaps I would say we noticed, children or adults who communicate with AAC devices or other methods, sometimes that progress isn't always reflected super well in the assessments as well. So that was something we wanted to include.

[00:05:33] Yeah, and I think some of the sections that we found particularly helpful, even at our center is self-awareness and perspective taking, because in some of the assessments it will just say has perspective taking, but that is really a big gap in the field and being able to teach what does perspective taking really look like and breaking it down. And so I think we have like even 47 goals just on perspective taking and yeah, 70 something in self-awareness. Because what we found is a lot of the times and some of our goals, we're having kids or clients look outside of themselves, right? Like what are they thinking? What are they feeling? What are they doing? Rather than what do I like and how do I feel about that? And leading a lot into being able to be more in tune with their preferences and what they like and what they don't like that eventually leads to us being able to teach consent too.

[00:06:29] Caitlin: I love all those ideas about teaching flexibility, perspective, taking less of that rote response maybe, and really becoming attuned to your own preferences. So I guess let's back up a minute and for those of us hearing about this tool for the first time. Do you wanna give us like a brief rundown of who's it for, what does it do and what makes it unique? Whether it's like the scoring system or the overview or things like that.

[00:06:53] Casey and Anika: So there are three different components really to the, we call it the Loop and the MOTAS. Casey has some right here in front of us. She can Oh, perfect. Cuddle them for us. This is the loop, and this is a structured interview and there are three of those that are in there to help guide what the process looks like. So this is where you'd start. And Loop stands for Levels of Optimum Performance 'cause we wanna keep everybody in the loop. We wanna be really collaborative. So the first one is for parents or caregivers, the second one is for clients where they can fill that out on their own where applicable. And then the other one is for other professionals. But when we were writing the one with the clients, we made sure to get autistic advocates. We got their input on language and making sure that we were wording things correctly. And it was really helpful because like we were just talking about in the self-awareness section, when I was working with asking Michael Christiansen as his name, the questions, he's like, Anika, you haven't asked me yet where I see myself in the future, and I was just like, I haven't. And I'm like, where do you see yourself in five years or 10 years? And that was a really good way to get to build some goals around what his goals were and getting that input. That was really crucial. So that's where we start. We start with the Loop, and then we go into the MOTAS. So this is the MOTAS, this is the assessment. It has 20 domains. It's designed for kids ages five and up, so there are skills that could carry through the lifespan. So some of the more advanced domains are employment, time management those types of skill shopping, the domains within the MOTAS directly correspond to the Loop. So the Loop interview has questions associated with each. So after you've completed the interviews, it gives you an idea of where to start with your assessment.

[00:08:42] Like with the families or the client, at the end of each section they rank a one to 10 on how important is this for us to work on. You get to have their input for that social validity component, but then you also use your clinical judgment and say, oh, these are also some goals that we should focus on. 

[00:08:57] Caitlin: And I noticed too, when you talk about that scoring system, you focus on independence, but also that generalization and maintenance, which I think does differ some from a lot of other tools that you see. So can you speak a little bit about why it was so important for you to include that?

[00:09:12] Casey and Anika: We work in a center in something that I see a lot, and I think other BCBAs see as well is sometimes when you're working with a client, they learn a skill and they learn it in the teaching context, or they learn it with their most favorite RBT or the person that they've spent the most time with, but they don't always generalize those skills when they work with someone new or they don't always take them home. And so it makes it really challenging when you're filling out an assessment, especially when you're submitting to payers or to insurance companies, you wanna show progress, but you wanna make sure that you're being representative of where they're actually at. And so it's like sometimes that can make it difficult to score. It's like, okay, I know they can do this. I know they're capable of doing it, but maybe they're not using it in all of their environments and where it's the most appropriate or the most functional, or they've learned it in one context, but I wanna make sure they're doing it in other areas. So it was really important for us to include this in the scoring so you can really see the nuance of progress and treatment So that if they've learned in one setting, let's give them credit for that, that's amazing. That's amazing progress that they're doing this in the treatment setting or with one or two RBTs but let's make sure that they've generalized that to parents and to home or in the community if that's where they need them, and make sure that they hold onto those skills when you're not directly intervening or teaching them anymore. You wanna make sure that the skills we're working on are important, so that they're worth maintaining and generalizing, and that they get to keep them.

[00:10:31] And the whole assessment only has one scoring criteria, and that's a zero to five for the whole thing. So you don't need to change, it doesn't alter with different domains. Very consistent across the whole assessment.

[00:10:43] Caitlin: Well, that actually leads me right into my next question, and I love, just before we get there, I love the generalization and maintenance component being baked in from the start. Having that really on everyone's minds. I was sharing exactly like what you were saying, Casey, a snippet our extended school year program where one of the teachers was so excited to tell me about this kid's progress with his letters. He was like, where do you see it? And she pulled out the flashcards and he like, wasn't getting any, and she was like, oh, we usually work at the blue table. And I was like, okay. Like you said, Let's like celebrate the progress because he was learning them at the blue table, but where did we go wrong that like we're only learning at the blue table. So having that on everyone's mind from the start, I think even if you're the educator in the room, whether it's the RBT or the teacher doing the scoring, I'm sure helps promote those things from the very beginning.

[00:11:28] Casey and Anika: And what a fantastic teacher to recognize, oh, we do at the blue table, and recognize contingencies around where they were successful. That was amazing that she noticed that.

[00:11:38] Caitlin: Just gives us an idea of where to go next, so, exactly. And so speaking of that scoring and that implementation, whether it's the BCBA or the teacher, have you had feedback from practitioners about how user friendly it feels? And like the scoring you mentioned sounds very systematic, very easy to use. So have you been able to get some real BCBA, your teacher feedback on that since?

[00:12:01] Casey and Anika: That's probably one of my favorite things is that teachers and BCBAs are telling us how easy it is to use and that they look at it and they go, oh yeah, that's prompted. Or, oh, that's independent. Not quite generalized. That they're able to now have it on this scale. And that it's very user-friendly, but then also shows the small amount of progress that it's not just an either or, but it shows all along the way. Like, Hey, this is where we were. And one thing is that people can start to notice like, Hey, wait, we have a lot of this that's prompted and we're not moving so much into the independent. Maybe we're making this individual a little too prompt dependent. It helps you get to track that progress as well and see where they're at as far as that level goes. I love that so much because I work in a school setting and so sometimes we do have the tendency to consider these skills as either if they're mastered or they're not and not looking at that gray area. And so I'm always training teachers to write their goals really specifically. There's nothing wrong with saying yes achieve, he can match three letters in a field of three and then next year's goal is going to bump up. He did make progress, but can he match all the letters? No, but that's okay. That it's not just a yes or a no. I love that different shades in that scoring system.

[00:13:17] Yeah. 'cause you wanna see the progress and you wanna celebrate that with the families and the individual and being like, look at this, you do this really well. That's what's important.

[00:13:26] Caitlin: That's where I'm usually writing that paragraph in the margin then, like a traditional assessment tool. Like, yes, but, but, but, but, so it's nice that it's baked in with yours from the start. Then you've mentioned a couple times about the insurance requirements. So can you speak a little bit about how that's built into this tool?

[00:13:41] Casey and Anika: We received special permission from the APA to include the entirety of the DSM criteria in the MOTAS. So that is available for people to review because a lot of feedback that we get from insurance companies or when we're writing treatment plans is they want all of the goals to relate back to those core characteristics of autism. But not everyone is familiar with what those are. They don't always have access to the DSM criteria. So that's involved in there. And at the beginning of the MOTAS, there are justifications for why each of these domains are skills worth working on, and include references to how they can be tied into the DSM to help people get insurance approval for all these skills that are gonna lead to greater independence and greater quality of life.

[00:14:23] Yeah, and we worked with a lot of insurance companies throughout this. We had several people who are reviewers look through this and say, Hey, what are things that insurance companies are looking for and what's important? And we've seen a lot of success. Insurance companies are really great to work with, they make it so that this is possible. And so we wanna make sure that we're meeting their requirements. And so we worked at that, the MOTAS to make sure all of those goals are meaningful and that they matter, that they hit that medical necessity. And we've gotten great feedback from insurance companies. We have not had things rejected because of it being the MOTAS. There are some states where maybe people are a little worried, and so what they're doing right now is they're pairing it with familiar assessments. If there's an assessment that the insurance companies are requiring, then people are adding in goals from the modus that meet the needs of their clients. And insurance companies are like, this is great. We like that because, their client is our client too. They wanna make them happy.

[00:15:26] Caitlin: And that sounds like such a huge time saver for anyone doing these authorizations and insurance legwork. I don't work in the clinic myself anymore, but I've had a lot of feedback from friends and coworkers saying like the treatment plans, the writing, the goals, I can do all that, but then sometimes it does feel like the insurance aspect is like a whole nother arena. So to have that built in from the start and to have a lot of that groundwork covered by your experience with putting this assessment from the start seems like it's a huge time saver for these educators.

[00:15:56] Casey and Anika: That's what we wanted to do, and also a time saver for the insurance companies, because then they get goals that are mattering like that matter and that are meaningful, that they can hurry and skip through things and go, yes, you are meeting DSM criteria. Because one time I had a BCBA who came to me and said, my treatment plan got rejected because it wasn't related back to the DSM. I don't even know what's in the DSM. And so we don't really cover that a lot in our schooling to become BCBAs, so that's why it was really nice that we did get special permission to put that in there so that BCBAs can become very familiar with what those characteristics are, and then recognize that these goals can relate back to that criteria.

[00:16:36] Caitlin: I think that's absolutely true. Were not learning that in the classes to become a BCBA, so of course we don't know that off the top of our head.

[00:16:42] Casey and Anika: And how would you know unless somebody helps you learn that process.

[00:16:45] Caitlin: Especially with insurance, i'm thinking that way, for the next time, and then it's probably that much quicker each time you do it. So I guess for people listening and potentially using the MOTAS or the Loop, what do you think would be like the first big win they would notice when switching to or incorporating the MOTAS? 

[00:17:02] Casey and Anika: This is something that I find really important to me. As you know, there's that article where it talks about, I can name Saturn but I can't brush my teeth. Right. That we're working on goals that we're hoping, oh, if we work on them, we're gonna see progress someday in the future. Or if I fill out this whole grid, then they're gonna be ready for school. I don't know why I am working on these goals, but I'm having faith in this assessment right away. I think people will find, as soon as they start flipping through the MOTAS, they're gonna be like, this goal is applicable to my client and this goal is applicable to my client. I used to have people come to me, especially like for third grade to high school, and let's say that the kid is in a mainstream classroom, and they're doing really well academically, but we have some issues with friends or perspective taking or self-awareness, or a lot of these other components, and they're like, I don't really know what to do. I have not had that question. Since people have started using the MOTAS at our center, they're like, oh, we have so many goals that we can work on that fill in those gaps for some of the learners that haven't been addressed yet. And so I think that they'll get in and they'll see like, oh, I didn't even know I could teach this. I didn't know that this was something that we could work on. But now that we're looking at it, it definitely falls within our scope of competence to be able to teach those skills that really matter. And so that's something that I think people will find, hopefully, is that the goals in here can be applied right now and show immediate need.

[00:18:32] As practicing as a BCBA, especially a new BCBA, working with kids or teenagers, eight and up, I would look through assessments and it was really hard to find things that would meet the needs of where they're at. And so I remember creating Frankenstein style assessment where I was taking a little bit of this and a little bit of this and making my own grid to try and cobble something together to be able to show progress for what they actually need to work on. So the MOTAS is very comprehensive, and I think that's something that people would see that it's comprehensive and it can be used for a variety of ages, a variety of skill levels, and grow with the person as they're going through treatment. So I think that's something that would stand out.

[00:19:12] Another thing that we talk about is that independence is gonna look different for everybody.

[00:19:16] It's something we talk a lot about a lot and it's something that we were talking about when we were writing this because independence does look different. There are people that might live with roommates or maybe live on their own, or there might be people that live with family for a good part of their life and that's great, but we wanna give them as much independence as possible. And so what does that look like? And within the MOTAS, the domains, they start out very functional. What are the things that we need the most to be independent? A very early level and then what does it look like as that goes on. You see that within the domains and then across the domain. So the last few are those more advanced skills?

[00:19:53] Caitlin: I think, again, we're moving away from that black and white, like Yes, can do it. Yes. Independent or no, he can't. That resonated with me so much when I used to teach at a district school for students with autism adolescents, and we would go on a lot of community outings. And I remember saying to my supervisor once, sometimes I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be teaching because for example, I have this student and I know he's never gonna be in the store alone. I know that you know him going to Acme, he's not gonna drive. He was 17 at the time. That wasn't where he was on that path currently. And so I started having that spiral of like, should I even teach him how to follow the list or should I even teach him how to make the purchase? And she basically said exactly what you just said, Casey. Sure he might not be going completely by himself, but we can still make him as independent as possible. And for him, maybe that means giving the money while mom is putting the bags in the car, and that could be a huge win for him. So it does, it truly looks different for everyone.

[00:20:48] Casey and Anika: Oh, that's a great example. And being able to help people be successful in those moments and not holding it to a criteria of, well, this is only how independence looks. It's like, no, it's different for everybody and let's celebrate that progress.

[00:21:04] Caitlin: And also, I think it cuts to that practicality aspect. We don't have to pretend, that this child is 17 and has nowhere near being able to transport themselves to Acme independently, that that's going to happen next year. So let's actually focus on something that can help his household, can help him be successful in the store. So in thinking of all these things, and I was nodding along Casey, as you were saying, like thinking of my first year as a BCBA in the school and pulling out every book I had and making that like scrap list myself. So wishing I had a time machine 12 years ago, in fact I had this tool would've been hugely helpful. But for someone who is comfortably using other assessments and wants to try to start incorporating this, do you have any tips on one place they should start or a few pointers on how to get started with the MOTAS?

[00:21:52] Casey and Anika: I'd say start with a client that you know really well because the goals are gonna stick out and you're gonna know what they need. If you spent, a year, two years, a longer amount of time with this person, you'll be able to see where the gaps are, what things they still need to learn. So as you're flipping through the assessment, like, oh, this will, this will go really well with what they need right now. The MOTAS is also very big. 20 domains is a lot of domains that has 1200 goals. That can be overwhelming. So if people are really comfortable with their assessments, they're happy with their assessments, but there's just a few things that they feel like are missing, then you can just start with one domain or one sub-domain and use that to supplement what you're already using. So you don't need to throw out what's working or start completely over. You can just supplement. And what we have seen is that when people are doing that, over time, they tend to switch to the MOTAS just because it is more comprehensive. It's all in one book rather than spread out over multiple. Some people do that and some people don't. They're like, I'm just gonna use perspective taking, or I'm gonna stick with the VB-MAPP, but they're using an AAC device, so I'm gonna add in some of these communications skills to be able to show more progress.

[00:22:54] Yeah, and the nice thing is you should not do the whole assessment and you should maybe not even do the whole domain. We've broken it down into sub-domains like Casey was saying, where they each have their own score. And so insurance companies are accepting that, right? If it's just like, Hey, this is where they were six months ago, and here they are, and comparing those scores and comparing progress, they're fine with that. And you know, recognizing you don't have to do it, but you tailor make this for your client. You should never adjust or make your client fit into this assessment. It is the opposite. Which goals are going to improve their life, improve that quality of life and independence, and then use it as a jumping board.

[00:23:34] Caitlin: Casey and Anika, you guys have built this amazing assessment tool, meaningful outcomes, treatment and assessment Scale, AKA, the MOTAS. Can you share with people where we can find this and more about you, or if there's updates to the tool, where can they follow along?

[00:23:47] Casey and Anika: Our publishers are Different Roads to Learning so you can buy it on their website. They are incredible and amazing and if you contact us, we can get you a discount code too for 20% off 'cause they're so generous and really thoughtful about that. One exciting thing is that this is, the MOTAS is for ages five and up. But coming in 2026, we have the early learner version for zero five. It is going to help just really round everything out so that we can move from those early learners into this age group with a little bit more of a seamless process, rather than having to shift through different assessments. So that will be coming soon too.

[00:24:27] Caitlin: I'm definitely gonna drop a link our Facebook group and on Instagram. So if you are listening, definitely check those out and definitely take, Anika up on that discount 'cause that sounds amazing. And I feel like my director at my school really appreciate that 20%. And let us know if you start using this, drop a comment that's Misfit Behaviorists on the Facebook group, and same on Instagram. Thank you guys so much for coming on this. It was so cool to hear all about this.

[00:24:52] Intro: Thanks for listening to the Misfit Behaviorists, and be sure to tune in next week for more tips and tricks. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Thanks for listening to the Misfit Behaviorists, and be sure to tune in next week for more tips and tricks. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.