Meet the farmer: Ian Strahan | EP 84

In this episode, we sit down with Manawatū farmer Ian Strahan, who runs 440 hectares of rolling country at Kiwitea, finishing around 16,000 lambs and up to 1000 cattle each year.

Ian, Manawatū–Rangitīkei Federated Farmers president, talks about growing up on the family farm, the influence of his father – legendary All Black Sam Strahan – and how a mix of old-school values and modern thinking has shaped his approach to farming today.

We dive into how his system's evolved into a highly efficient operation focused on strong margins, attention to detail and constant improvement. 

He also takes on the bigger challenges facing farming, including the growing gap between farmers and the public, and why social licence is becoming just as important as productivity.

Along the way, Ian shares some great advice for younger farmers, the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, and why simple systems – done well – consistently outperform.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hi everybody and welcome back to the Federated Farmers Podcast. Today on the podcast, we're joined by Ian Strawn, Federated Farmers Manowatu Rangatik President, and a highly respected sheep and beef farmer from Kiwatea near Fielding. Ian is a third-generation farmer continuing a family legacy that stretches back to one of New Zealand's earliest Romney studs. He's also the son of the late Sam Strawn, a legendary all black in the late 1960s and early 70s, whose influence on Ian's life both on and off the farm still runs deep today. Ian's known as a really thoughtful, down-to-earth leader with a major focus on continuous improvement. We're really grateful to have him on the podcast today to share his story, his thinking, and some practical insights for farmers. Let's get going. Hey, well, Ian, fantastic to have you on the podcast today. Thank you. To start us off, can you tell us a bit about where you're farming and what your operation looks like?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, g'day, Ben. I am farming with my family here at Kewitia in the uh Northern Manuel 2. We've got uh we're sort of on rolling country, uh, run a finishing operation with a bit of arable, so sheep and beef with some cash cropping and fodder cropping. So yeah, 100% dry stock finishing operation.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

How big's the farm, Ian?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

So it's 440 hectares, yeah, built up over a over a number of years, so it's all in one block. Yeah, we used to we had a bit of a dabble in dairy for 10 years, um, had a farm there and had runoffs, had breeding finishing in the hills, so now we've sort of consolidated to where we are now.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Good stuff, good stuff. And have you got any any staff?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, I do, I do. I've got a shepherd, got a casual general that comes uh yeah, once a month for about a week, so yeah. We finish about um 16,000 lambs, sort of 900 to a thousand head of cattle. We turn the whole farm over about every three or four years with cropping and regrassing. So, yeah, there's a bit on. We do get a few uh visitors from overseas that sort of take one look at us and wonder how that all gets done. I did have a young couple from um Devon that were managing a big estate which had 4,000 ewes, which must be massive over there. And yeah, they had 33 staff, so uh Wow, okay. But that's how we that's how we roll New Zealand.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Now you grew up on that farm, I believe, Ian. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, that's right. Yep. Started at the other end of the farm and the farm's sort of grown since then. So yeah, brought up on this farm. There's been quite a few changes in in size and various bits as I was saying. So yeah, we're actually surrounded by about four intergenerational family farms in this area, which is great. So, you know, that's that's uh yeah, it's it's a good thing. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

What was your childhood like, Ian? Um, and did you always see yourself going into farming?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Yeah, I suppose pretty much. Um, yeah, had a great childhood. Good old country kid. Don't think I wore shoes for about 10 years. I remember seeing some uh kids once with um my feet were just constantly dirty underneath. I remember seeing my cousins once turned up and they took their shoes off and their feet were clean underneath. I thought, what the hell's going on with them? And yeah, you could sort of tell the kids that come from country schools all got flat feet like me. Um so yeah, but no, it was great, great, great upbringing, great fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Now, your father, Sam Strawn, is an iconic figure in New Zealand rugby. He's considered rugby royalty. What was that like growing up with an all-blacks, all black for a dad? And did you understand at the time how big a deal that was?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, um, I suppose at the time years ago, there's a few generations that obviously don't know who um don't know much of that legacy now. But uh yeah, it was a was a big deal back in the day. It was it was pretty cool for a young fella to have your dad as an all black. So yeah, no, it was it was pretty cool. But um I never really saw him play. I was a bit young. So uh he finished the All Blacks when I was um only one year old. So he was he was actually locking with um locking with Colin Meads. You know, when when Colin's brother Stan had to go farming, um uh the old man managed to um I think there was a shield game against Hawks Bay, managed to catch the selector's eye and uh managed to get on the team then. Yeah, he had to take a year off to go farming, and then he had to quit because of farming. So, you know, it's um yeah, it was there was no professionalism. Um he got a little allowance and uh when he when he left he got given a whole lot of um blankets and uh a few bits and pieces, so yeah. But no, it was a it was it was pretty cool, pretty um, pretty hard out in those days. You know, he he he toured the UK and South Africa. That all black team would have got the Grand Slam if Ireland didn't have foot and mouth disease. So that was, I think, was that 68? Yeah. So you know it was a great, great team. There was some iconic all blacks back then in the in the day. So yeah, no, I think he uh yeah, it was um he he actually told uh told the story about um oh to the Huntley and Hereworth boys uh not long before he died, which um six or seven years ago, uh about when he was he was at uh year eight form two back in the old money when he was he was at Huntley School, which is form two. He was he he admired Colin Meads and uh yeah, it was about ten years later he was in the team with him, so he was he was telling the someone actually recorded it's a great little yarn. He was he was telling them, so you know, you don't don't think you can't reach and and and grab what you want, you know, you just have to get stuck in and and uh yeah, you never know what you can achieve. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

For those of us who uh you know weren't around in that time, he the his partnership, his locking um partnership with Colin would have been a bit similar to a Sam Whitelock, Brady Ritalic kind of thing, right? Back in those days.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Oh yeah, mind you, I'll um oh Tree as Sam called him, he was he was something else. I think everyone, not only the team respected him and and um yeah, the opposition certainly did, it was he was he was something else, obviously. And then you had um old Fred Needle Allen, who was uh who was the coach, he was something else. You know, it was uh yeah, there was a there was a lot there was a bit of a hierarchy and a lot of respect shown to seniors in those days. You know, if you yawned during a team meeting, old Needle had ripped strips off you, apparently. Yeah, am I boring you? You know, just yeah, terrible. And you know, you know, there's all sorts of stuff like that. Tony, Tony Steele, the Y Cat O winger, um once scored in the corner, won the game for the All Blacks, and Needle got into him for not scoring it under the sticks. So yeah, no, she was she was tough, so it was uh it was a big learning curve from when he got in that team because he was only 22 when he got in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

That's great. What was it like growing up, you know? Because I've read that he was quite a big influence on you, your dad. I mean, of course he was, but then he he he was one of your key role models. What are some of the key things that he taught you about farming and life?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

He was certainly old school. Um his his father was 55 when he had him. So my grandfather went through the depression, and so there was a real old conservative attitude um about not spending and working hard. And and that that always came through. Um, he always used to tell me my grandfather was, I think I was only three when three or four when he died, and but one of his favourite expressions was it's not what you can do with that counts, it's what you can do without. And and the old man used to sort of have a bit of a laugh about that, but but it was actually um it was actually a bit of a bit of a thing they live by, and and and the old man certainly had plenty of that. So he had he had that, and and you know, I suppose it's really the old-fashioned type of compounding, you know, you just keep scrolling away and and building up, and we're quite lucky now to have the result of three generations of you know uh working away, working hard to get to where we are now. On the other side of it, the um, yeah, he wasn't he wasn't shy at trying stuff. Um, you know, he did he did the dare and the gates during the 80s, got a got a bit of a hiding from the gates like everyone else. Um always wanted to try stuff. We changed into a from a breeding operation here at Kiwitia into a fully finishing operation in the late 90s, and and that was very much what he thought was uh his idea as well. So, you know, I was sort of coming into it then, but but it was very much something he wanted to do. So he was never shy at trying stuff. He he was into community as well, you know, which was which was great, always into, you know, on all sorts of committees, always, always giving back. And he also had a great just had a great clarity about, you know, he understood people and and and just was able to break problems down. And I suppose nowadays, you know, with that um with all the social media and and you know, you've you've got politicians literally uh arguing black's white nowadays. When someone actually gives a bit of clarity and actually says it how it is, it's it's something that actually people seek out nowadays. So so yeah, it's um i i i it's something I miss about him was, you know, that uh great grounding and clarity that he always had.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Did you head off to study agriculture uh after school or did you just go straight into farming on the home block?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

No, I didn't actually. I um so I came out of school in the 90s. Agriculture was a bit um wasn't going too good during the nineties. So I went and did um I went and did a forestry degree. So yeah, I did that and and um at at Canterbury University and then uh went work for a consultant for a number of years, forestry consultant. So yeah, that's a that that was the path. But yeah, it ultimately I came back to I came back to farming. Um but yeah, it was it was a good it was great to see another point of view, um great to get another um another set of skills and uh yeah it you know it was it was a it was a great um it was a great period that um of of just seeing things from a different point of view and coming and probably coming into farming with a few with a bit of a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah When you went into forestry, did you do that with a view to returning to farming or were you not actually sure if you were going to come back to the farm at that point?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I wasn't sure actually. I I I left it pretty much open. There wasn't there wasn't any pressure from dad. He sort of left it open and and was um reasonably reasonably relaxed about it. I think it was just an opportunity I couldn't I couldn't say no to getting back to the family farm um uh uh in the end, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

So when you did how how old were you when you came back to the farm in? And did you have pretty good knowledge of you know running the farm already?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, I can't I didn't come back till I was about 27 or 28 actually. So uh I went and did a few things, did a bit of an OE, um, worked overseas. When I was doing the forestry consulting, I um I actually did the farm accounts, did the GST for at least a year. So that gave me a good understanding of uh of what was going on. Um I think that's quite important. So when I, you know, I obviously brought up on the farm, I I knew I knew how to swing a handpiece and and and you know the general lie of the land. Um, but you know, the the real key was understanding the business. I think that was a great starting point.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

So when you came back at 27, was there a time that you and your dad were then running the farm together, I assume, or you know, how did that sort of transition go to you uh taking over?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, we were both running it for a bit. Um he was actually pretty good. You know, obviously I had my own ideas. We we we changed to a finishing system, so there, a fully dry stock system, so there was quite a lot of new stuff that we were we were both learning. The good thing about the whole forestry was uh, you know, I'd got into got into the old spreadsheets. Um so you know, I really do things by the numbers. And I thought I said to the old man, you know, why don't we do this? Always looking at stuff. I was he'd say, okay, yep, show me. And you know, we'd we'd go through it and go, yeah, yeah, it'd be a good idea. So it was, it was, it was actually reasonably good. Um, it's not an easy thing to um, it's part of succession is is is just letting go. And he was actually pretty good at that and uh letting us get on with it, and and yeah, you know, there's letting that next generation in, and it's you know, it's something that's um I'm I'm gonna have to uh do at some stage um sooner or other later. Um but yeah, he was he was actually pretty good. So now the business the business grew as a result.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Looking back, can you see any times where you know he let you make a few mistakes?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah, he did. He did. Uh yeah, there was there was a few balls-ups. Farming's a funny thing. Um I think everyone, and especially in a finishing system, it's pretty easy to make mistakes. Um, getting your timing wrong, doing something wrong, doing the wrong trade. And you know, it's the this the system we've got some one that's constantly evolving. So without making too big of balls-ups, um, the m m mistakes are actually quite a good thing to learn off. It's not the end of the world when you do, as long as long as it's nothing too bad.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Can you talk a little bit about so obviously that was a big shift going to a finishing um system, but how has it evolved over the years since, Ian? Are there any sort of um key markers that you can point to? Any key changes?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I suppose one thing that's really changed in the last, probably in the last five years is getting a folding drill with the GPS and just upping our ability to turn ground. Well, we don't turn ground over, we're drilling to renovate ground and um do more cropping, do more regrassing. So that's that's been a massive game changer for us um recently. It's just constant evolvement, like in in five years' time, it's gonna look a bit different from how I'm doing it now. Certainly it's different from how it looked five years ago. So it's just constant change.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Are you still really enjoying farming, Ian?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, I do actually. Um, yeah, well, I suppose if this will be the 27th year, I've been full-time on the place, so it's a fair while. I still get a buzz, I still love working the dogs, um still get a bit of a kick out of letting um obligal lands go into some new grass. I just love getting stuck in. There's so many leaves you can pull. It's a it's a yeah, no, it's a it's a great trade, and and you know, there's um and especially doing what we do, um, every day's different. So no, no, really, really, uh, really do get a kick out of it still.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And good that you guys are getting some decent returns um at last day.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, we have got a system where we've got a bit of resilience. We, you know, I um as I say, we can pull whatever levers we want. Um and so I we don't heavily rely on one thing. We've managed to build into our farming model some resilience where we're trying to make every year match up and and not have the big ups and downs. I think the real game change is the um breeders who are finally getting getting good returns because the the supply chain was pretty broke with them not making enough. So that was that was something that really needed to happen in the sheep and beef industry. So that's you know, that's hopefully the positive messages. You know, there's gonna be some um uh breeder finishers uh visit their accountant and realize they're actually gonna pay tax this year, and and and hopefully that's gonna give them a bit of confidence to get stuck in and and uh expand their expand their numbers, you know, um get into farming because yeah, they've been they've been pretty much shut down for three or four years. So, you know, we as finishers we've we're so reliant on the whole value chain working properly, and and that was a major part of it that was broke.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

You won the uh Wade Central District's um red meat farm business of the year in 2022. What set your operation apart, Ian?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

We as I say it's a blank canvas. We we run a pretty simple operation. It's really a matter of doing a simple plan, but attention to detail. And as I say, I'm not scared of a spreadsheet. So uh you're getting the numbers right. Um, you can't manage what you can't measure. So, you know, we certainly are on top of um knowing what's going on, what sort of weight gains, what sort of crops do what. Um and look, end of the day, farming's a business. It's about the value of production, the cost of production, and the volume of production. You know, those things are quite important and the positions you take and the times of year you do stuff. So, yeah, I suppose it's taken quite a few years to build up a system where we're we're maximizing the production and maximizing the value of that production, but without getting too complicated and doing it well. So it's it's really important to do a simple plan well.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

I know the judges uh in those awards, they talk, I read about it, they they talked about you having a really strong balance between um profitability and sustainability. Um, what does that look like in practice on your farm? Can you paint a bit of a picture?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah, so sustainability. We've been no tillage, fully no tillage uh drilling for about 20 years now, um, which has improved soil structure. We definitely grow more grass than we used to. It's it's taken cost out of the system. And then, you know, there's all the other things, you know, you release less you release less carbon. Um it's uh it's it's it's more it's obviously friendlier for the environment. Um fresh water, we've we've got a lot of little tributaries that run through the farm, we've fenced all them off. Uh sometimes it's just a one-wire electric so the sheep can get in and keep the blackberry out, but keeps the cattle out. We've got quite a strong local catchment group. So yeah, and you know, but the understanding of our footprint nowadays is important to know. Our our customers want to know that we understand that and and understand how we can control that. There's a few levers we can we can pull there. So yeah, you know, that's this that stuff's not going away. I think the more we know, the more we can do um about that sort of thing. But yeah, there's so really it's a focus on soils and fresh water on this place. And you know, but I I'm not I'm not obviously with my forestry back background, I'm not scared to plant a tree. Um so yeah, a bit of biodiversity doesn't help either.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

And on that profitability uh performance side, can you talk about some of the things that you're doing a little bit differently? Some of the um things that you've uh adopted as part of your system.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Yeah, um quite a lot of tactical cropping. We finish a lot of lambs, obviously. I try and keep them off the grass during the summer and autumn for two reasons. One one is because the the grass quality is not great then, and and to just protect our our worm burden. Um obviously drench resistance is a is a big issue in the industry. Uh what else? We um yeah, we're not we're not scared to do things like um, you know, I I I price up what's best to do during the summer. I went back and did a summer fallow weaving this year um and uh double sprayed and and and got some grass in early February, and that seems to have worked better than some of the arable options, which are struggling a bit at the moment. Um so yeah, it's um it it it's always it's always looking at it at uh what what fits into our system and and and what's going to get the best return.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I read a bit of stuff about um like the timing of when you kill animals, like same-day killing and things. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, yeah, we've been we we kill it fielding our lambs, just which is only 15 minutes in the bus down the road. So uh they um yeah, so we we get good yields every every moment that um lambs are off grass, they start losing yield. Um and look, I've I've a lot of people argue about that, but we've measured it the look the further they go, the longer they travel, the less they yield, uh, and the less you get paid for as a carcass. So uh yeah, same same day killing 15 minutes down the road works works great. So, you know, we we extract the maximum. We've we've gone through all this expense and effort of of putting the forage in front of the lambs, buying them, farming them, you know, doing it all properly, and then uh yeah, if if you want to extract maximum value by by getting the maximum yield out of them, and that same day kill close by is quite important for us.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I know that you take, and you've talked about this that you're sort of a details person and you like to get into the numbers. I I read that you like to take a sort of science-based approach to farming. How do you stay informed about the latest research? And are there any particular areas that you're most interested in?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I think it's another thing's another thing that's important is surrounding yourself with the right people, having a good agronomist, having a good vet, you know, having having those sorts of people that if if you want the the best answer, get the best people. And the team we've got around us now, whether it's the accountant, the agronomist, the you know, the animal health professional, you know, it's taken us taken us a while. But you know what, we've got the best, I reckon they are the best team we've had around us that we've had. Because, you know, it's it's a multi-skilled business um farming. You've you've got to be jack of all trades. And and you just can't be. You've you've just got to ask people who know more than you, and there's always someone that that's um that's that's that's got the information. And not only that, there's there's always someone doing what you're doing better than you. And you just have to find them and and and you know, you don't have to innovate your way through. Um, you know, we need the innovators, don't get me wrong, but there's always someone, there's always someone doing it better than you, and you just have to um you just have to hunt them out. And uh, you know, most of the time people are happy to share. Um, so it's just a matter of getting your um yeah, get getting your information. Um the science based approach, yeah, it's it it's probably just more the numbers game, letting the numbers talk. Um yeah, just just working working through what what works for you and um and and just making sure you you're doing the right right thing by the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Out of interest, Ian, have you always been someone, you know, even Even as a kid, did you have you know, were you someone that was sort of geared towards having good attention to detail, or is that something you've developed over the years in farming?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

No, I don't think I was for good attention to detail, Ben. No, I think I've just um yeah, just developed it through my career with the with the forestry and the farming. Yeah, it's just just a pinch of phrase from someone else, it's just that making the boat go faster thing. So yeah, and and you know, you know, I don't know if anyone that's done any yachting, well, it it's quite addictive once you have a bit you you know, you get in the you get in the boat and you you it takes a while to suss it out, and then when you can sort of get a little bit good at it, you're always trying to make that boat go a little bit faster. I think I think what we do in farming is quite similar. You're always trying to find ways of, you know, you're not happy with with how you think I can do this a little bit better. So you're just always tweaking things.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

How did you get involved with Federation Farmers then? When did that happen? And and how did you become the president down there?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I think I was always gonna contribute. Look, farming's been great to me, been great to my family. And look, I was I was always gonna give back at some stage, I think. Feds was the obvious way to do that. I actually was involved in the big July Groundsville protest, and I was actually on the microphone in Palmer's North. And uh, yeah, I had a had a couple of the of the exec call on me afterwards, go, right, it's about you, you you need to you need to stage door left and and give us a hand. And uh yeah, and so I got in, got on on the exec for a and then did the McMill chair thing. And yeah, I was only doing that for a year and and um yeah, succession goes, you you never um it's never the best time and you never you're never quite ready. And uh yeah, so I was I was only a year in the exec and I was I was president, which which is alright. I've got a great exec and one or two ring of ticket, um, so they make things a lot easier and and we have a bit of fun doing it. So that's how I've got into it. I've really enjoyed it. I've it's opened my eyes. I think a lot of people don't understand exactly what Feds does and the quality of people and staff we've got. All that stuff done behind the scenes that farmers just don't want to do, those annual district plans and all that nonsense. You know, we've got policy people reading every line and flagging things up and making recommendations, all that, all those relationships with central government and and local government, all that stuff that just make a lot of the stuff makes people's eyes glaze over, just gets done. The amount of times we've managed to save farmers from some terrible stuff that people just didn't understand that the um consequences of it. There's plenty of examples. Obviously, I I got in when Haywak Ekanar was the big issue. That caused us a lot of damage, fed farmers, but that was because we had to stay in the tent and and we've probably saved most farmers$10,000 a year by um by stopping that and and thank God that the recommendation, which we weren't happy with, wasn't accepted by the then Labor government. Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated. That's one thing we're and we're getting better at it, is letting not only our members but farmers in general just know ex how much we do. It's a huge amount. Feds is only going to be ever as good as the people that come into Feds. And look, we are farmers only policy lobby group. We're at, you know, we're the voice of farmers. We're the grassroots, it's farmers by farmers. We are the grassroots all over the country that represent farmers. And if you've got a problem, if things aren't right, get along to your local Fed farmers, get along to the AGMs all coming up April, May, and put your hand up and say stuff. It's easy to be heard, and it's the real strength of Feds is it it comes from the the ground up, comes from the provinces, um, gets fed into the National Council, which um gets fed into uh you know our policy team, which goes through and and you know, we've got some real tangible changes that have been made as a as a result. I've actually been pleasantly surprised at how all the the arable, the meat and wool, and the um and the dairy all were able to reach a really good consensus. That's one thing that really surprised me within Feds. There's a social uh media guy up in Waikato who's just made a big song and dance about leaving Feds, and he raises some fair issues with it with a number of things, um, but all he's succeeded in doing is weakening the farming lobby by splintering it. Look, there's only the there's only 30,000 farmers in New Zealand, and you know, there's five million Kiwis. We punch way above our weight in terms of lobbying power as it is, and to splinter it, and look, the politicians and the regulators, they don't want to hear a whole lot of different answers and a whole lot of different voices. Look, we saw that Heiwaki Kana. All you're doing by jumping outside the tent and and making a whole lot of distractive noise is weakening farmers' voice. So, look, if you've got a beef, get along, you know. Well, we all know what farmers are like. No one's it's it's not an old boys club. You just get in there and play your part, and you'll be you might be surprised where it leads you. It's really important that we support Feds because yeah, it's it is our only lobby group and there's not any more farmers, there's less farmers, and so we actually feds needs to um we we actually need to hold the membership and increase it because in this modern world where there's less and less farmers, as a voting bloc, we're not really important. I'm sometimes I'm not really quite sure why why we get paid so much attention, but all the parties care what we say, and that's and that's a real strength of Feds.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

What do you see as being the biggest challenges for sheep and beef farmers at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Right. You better get a cup of tea on. Um we're obviously riding the crest of a wave at the moment with commodity prices and things are good. On the flip side of that, we've got a little bit of a problem with social license, which is starting to creep in. It's the old butter argument. We had a lot of controversy about the price of butter. Now we've got the price of mints and sausages. I don't know. How do you explain to all those New Zealanders who are removed from farming, which is most of them nowadays, who are sympathetic to farming, but an issue like this um stirs them up. How do you explain that the commodity, international commodity price of red meat has gone up and it's going to increase our GDP and raise our incomes, as is the price of butter? But the price we pay is that we have to pay the um we have to pay the international price here at home. It's a tough one. And look, maybe we need to think outside the square and expand things like meet the need. There's certainly a lot of cost in the system that could potentially be taken out. I don't know. Do we look at things, do we look at setting something up in the regions that um that takes some of those middle players out? I don't know. There's something we we probably need to do about the social license because, yeah, we've seen it with butter um and and and and meat. And look, it ain't going anywhere. I I suppose the big problem is over the last 20 years, New Zealand as a whole, and this is a major problem for the not only sheep and beef, but dairy and New Zealand as a whole. In the last 20 years, we've actually got poorer as a country. And I think anyone that goes overseas soon sees that, that our incomes have dropped relative to our trading partners. And, you know, it's because of, it's it's mostly because of low productivity. It's harder to do things. We've turned ourselves into, um, in a lot of areas, into high cost. You know, we've got higher energy, high labour, which has just been exacerbated recently, obviously. But, you know, it's still hard to do things. There's a lot of red tape still. We've had a change of government, but there's still there's still a lot we have to work through. I mean, look at Waddy's McCain's closing down recently in Hawke's Bay and around the country. That's the canary in the coal mine, really. You know, if you're not producing red meat, fruit, or or milk, it's hard work in New Zealand. And it's hard to explain that to um New Zealanders who who, you know, it looks like about half of them at the moment want to vote for parties that just want to borrow money and put it in their pockets, um, which is just going to make the problem worse. It's just going to be inflationary. So, yeah, it's it's it's a thing as a country we've got to get to grips with. I mean, we've got a we've got a 10 billion annual deficit at the moment. We've we've actually got to find ways of um of just getting things done and making it easier, helping the innovators and the risk takers, because those people, you know, they've pulled their heads in in the last decade or so. It's it's harder to get things done. And we don't need many of those people to get in behind. We've just got to create an environment where yes is the answer, not no to everything. Um and and we're still we're working through that a wee bit, but gee whiz, we've got some, we've got a way to go. I suppose a good example of that is the live export trade. We've just said no to$300 million a year. Really? Can we afford that? Maybe, maybe not, but essentially that$300 million is getting borrowed instead of made now. You know, have we really earned the right to make that call? I don't think we have.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

I'm interested in your views on on forestry, you know, given your background. Um Feds obviously is quite vocal about the need for a reduction in the amount of carbon forestry going in. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 31:20

The carbon thing's been a it's been a disaster. It's probably the in terms of long-term thinking, it's probably one of the most stupid things we've ever done. And the change in rules hasn't really fixed it. They haven't changed the rules for that class um six land and above where 90% of it's happening. It's only the low carbon price that's actually stopping it. So if the carbon price went up, we'd be away again. So if you have a look at a graph of commodity prices over the last 20 years, you know, milk meat, uh, you name it, they've all gone, they've all gone up. Sorlogs have stayed flat. Swogs are almost the same price, they're pretty much the same price as when I finished forestry school in the mid-90s. Um, you know, about$120 a um a ton for saw log grade. So wood's not the answer, obviously, and and to convert all that country and a lot of it um is uh in a lot of cultivatable countries just the most stupidest thing we've done. And you know, we're we're gonna ruin the day we we did a lot of it. But yeah, thank God it stopped. But it's we we haven't we haven't completely stopped it, we haven't turned the tap off. So the settings aren't right yet. So we need to we need to keep working on that one.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Ian, I know that you're really passionate about supporting younger farmers. I can see why too, because you had quite it sounds like quite a successful sort of succession story yourself with your dad. Um, what's your key advice for those young farmers coming through today?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Number one is farmers who are just getting into farming, you see people do stuff and and a lot of them just try and copy what people are doing. I think it's really great, you know, that getting advice and and getting information off people. But every farm's unique, even you compared to your neighbours, even if you're doing the same thing. Um, you know, every farm's got different physical resources with the soil and the climate's always slightly different. Um, but also the management's different and the skills that the person, the skills of management are different. So I think everyone's got to have a look at the the operation with all those things in mind and design a system around all those different variables. Don't try and do things that are too hard. Don't don't try and run too much stock in the winter on heavy soils, um, do too much in the summer when it's dry. Do stuff that's beyond your on your skill. Design stuff that's doable and that that that that you can do. That's probably number one. Number two is uh build resilience into your system. Um and and and do a do a plan that's simple, but you can do it well and and doesn't rely on a whole lot of stuff. But get stuck into that attention to detail. Don't get too complicated with what you're doing, whether it's dairy or sheep and beef or whatever you're doing. Do something simple and execute well. Oh, yeah, the last thing, as I said before, farming's a job that requires all sorts of skills. You've got to be an agronomist, you know, animal husbandry, you've got to be an accountant, you've got to do all sorts of things, you've got to be a mechanic some days. You know, some people are pretty good jackal trades, but you you you can't do everything. And and it's really important to surround yourself with the right people, with uh people that can help you do those jobs, or people with the advice. So that's really important. Get the right advisors around you. And look, most of the time you don't even have to pay for it, you just have to um the advice is out there. Um, you just have to find the right people and um and and and get the advice because yeah, there's there's plenty of it out there.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

You and Steph have got three teenage daughters, as you mentioned earlier. Are any of them looking like they're taking an interest in the farm?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, potentially. Um we way to go yet. So don't really know at this stage, but uh we're certainly being very open with them about how the farm looks, how it performs, what the opportunity is, so we can just lay that out and see how they go. Um my oldest has only just left school, and so she's off to varsity. So uh yeah, so look, we'll just give them a bit of time to sort themselves out. But just we're we're gonna just make sure we keep the conversations going so everyone knows everyone's on the same page and knows the opportunity, which you know, when we have to sort the succession out at some stage, um, there shouldn't be any, well there won't won't be any surprises about about what the about what the expectations are. So yeah, all the options are open, so we'll see, we'll see where that leads.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

That's cool. Hey, and and last question before we start to wrap up, but I I understand you've also started some farm accommodation, uh, sort of agri-tourism uh in the last couple of years. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Yeah, we have been. Yeah, we've always um had tour groups through through um farm-to-farm tours from Rangiora, which has been great internationals. Um we the old homestead I was brought up in um when my father died six years ago, um, and my sister was living there for a while, and then we've um she's she's moved away, and yeah, we we we didn't really want to rent it out. It's a lovely old um uh 1890 uh villa built out of the old native timbers from the area um with a great garden. My late mother was a was a was a great um tree and gardener. We've actually pinched the local local name, it's called Romney Lane. Obviously, between here between Chiltenham and Kiwitia, it was all Romney studs once upon a time back in the back in the 60s. In fact, my grandfather on my mother's side down the road was one of the first Romney studs, um, started selling rams in the uh in the 30s. So yeah, it used to be called uh Ram Alley, um Romney Lane. So we've actually pinched that name. Well, that was back in the day when Romneys were a bit of a beauty parade and it was how fat you got them, and they had to be basically wall blind. Things have moved on and everyone gets their rams from um Hill Country nowadays. But we've got a bit of a legacy there when we tell that story. We've also incorporated farm tours into it. Just to tell the story. Um, that engagement with um non-farming people I think is important nowadays. Just to come out to the country, but not only come out and stay, but just to have a few conversations about what we're up to. I think that's really important nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Hey uh Ian, just to finish up, I want to ask you to tell us, you know, what's one thing that you think farmers should uh start doing, something they should stop doing, and something they should keep doing.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Something they should start doing. Look, I'm a big fan of catchment groups. And look, a lot of people are already doing it. So if you if you keep doing it, if we already are. Um catchment groups is something that even though we've had a change of government, I don't think the issues have gone away with the social license. Um, as I say, there's there's five minutes, five million Kiwis who who don't understand us as well as they used to back in the day, and we've got to show we understand the issues and we're doing stuff about it. So whether it's freshwater or biodiversity, I think catchment groups are uh, you know, they're bigger than they're bigger than an outfit like Feds. Um it's neighbors getting together and making change. It's stalled a bit in the last few years. I think we need to get back on it and crank it up again because we're going to have different political cycles and we've got to be seen to be on top of things and front-footing issues. So I think catchment groups are really important because um even though it's it's our markets that that ultimately dictate how we do things, I think the local social license with um regulators in this country is something we have to address. So, yeah, get into the catchment group movement, you know, get one going. There's there's plenty of them around the country, there's there's a template there, get stuck into it. What farmers stop doing, I think farmers have got to stop thinking that everyone thinks the way we do. And it goes back to this five million Kiwis again. Even though the rest of the country is largely sympathetic to farming, they have an increasingly different worldview. I've always been fascinated when you get the most outrageous opinion from various quarters, and and you go, how did they come up with that? And and we we've actually got to be better at working that out because um even the most ridiculous things that you know we've we've seen a fair few examples of them over the last 10 years, they've come from somewhere. And we've got to be in there engaging and understanding where they've come from a bit more. So we've got to stop thinking that logic's gonna rule because it's not. Um nowadays, you know, the world's changed. Everyone's everyone's getting their information from their own algorithms, um, you know, their own silos. We've got to have a wider understanding of of how we can um influence the wider community. So I think that's really important. What have we got to keep doing? Look, we've got to keep farming, we've got to keep producing. I think, you know, if potentially there's another 10 billion of um income from the primary industries if we want it. We've uh, you know, from a sheep and beef point of view, we're probably um we're probably understocked, we're probably a stock unit behind, you know, everyone's batting down their hatches. Look, it's time to it's time to get going again. You know, it's time to get the ram out to the hoggets. Hopefully, they hopefully a lot of people have done this autumn. It's time to get going and and use land for its best economic use. You know, whether that's a few dairy conversions, look, we understand the issues with the environment and we can mitigate those. So, you know, let's keep getting stuck in and doing what we do. Because look, agriculture is full of great people, a lot of good buggers, and a lot of very clever people. You know, the the days where you sent the bright one and the family to go and do an accountancy degree are well over. There's some top people in farming. So look, we just need to encourage those top people to keep in it. And the country needs us, so look, keep doing what you're doing. It's all about relationships nowadays, and you know, that salt of the earth farmer needs to get out and about and be talking to regulators and engaging with the general public more. There's a great future there if we want it, but yeah, we've we've just got to bring people along with us. Um, yeah, I think the future of farming's brilliant. So look, it's uh yeah, it's bright, but yeah, we've just got to take it.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Awesome, man. Love your passion, your positivity. It's good stuff, man. Nice chatting to you.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

No problem, any time.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you've enjoyed it and you'd like to hear more, subscribe to the Federated Farmers Podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts so that you get notified when our new episodes drop. And if you have any feedback or podcast suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. Please drop us a line podcast at fedfarm.org.nz. That's podcast at fedfarm.org.nz. Catch you next time.