Kerry Harmer’s fight for consent while winning awards | EP 89

Kerry Harmer and her husband Paul have recently won top environmental awards for their high-country stewardship work, while simultaneously fighting a $150,000 (so far) battle for consent to keep farming.

In this episode, the new Mid Canterbury Federated Farmers president talks about the brutal irony of being recognised for environmental leadership while being told they’re not doing enough. 

She shares the reality of the Harmers’ costly consent battle, the emotional toll of public scrutiny, and why she believes New Zealand’s consenting system is failing good farmers.

Kerry also reflects on her career in farming, life at Castle Ridge Station, high-country resilience, and the leadership she wants to bring to Federated Farmers.

Link:
Farmers Weekly article about the Harmers 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

You know, we're a small family business, and we had the world choosing to have an opinion on whether we should even be here or not. Having never been here, never set foot on the place, never knowing anything about us as people or what our values were or anything, that was that was raw. That was really hard emotionally and mentally.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hi everybody and welcome back to the Federated Farmers Podcast. Our guest this week is Kerry Harmer, a well-known voice in New Zealand high country farming, and now the new president of Mid-Canterbury Federated Farmers. Incidentally, that makes her the first woman in about 80 years to hold the role. Alongside her husband Paul, Kerry's farming Castle Ridge Station in the Canterbury High Country, where the family has earned recent recognition for their environmental stewardship while somewhat ironically also fighting an incredibly tough, expensive battle to secure the consent needed to keep farming. It's hard not to laugh at the fact that they've just been honored with a water quality award from the council, while at the same time that council is putting Carrie and Paul through the ringer to get consent to keep farming, as you'll hear about in the chat today. In this episode, Carrie talks about life in the high country, the realities of modern farming, her deep frustrations with the consenting system, and the kind of leadership she wants to bring to feds in Mid-Canterbury. I hope you enjoy the chat. Kerry, congratulations on becoming the president of Mid-Canterbury Federated Farmers and the first woman to hold the role in more than 80 years. What kind of president do you want to be for the for the province?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I think I really just want to be uh inclusive and it it's really just a case of trying to make sure that everybody feels welcome and and gets their voice heard. So I I really want to be able I want to be open and welcoming and and hopefully people will be feel that they're comfortable coming to me. Um pretty much the way they have so far in the past.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

David Ackland leaves some pretty big boots to fill down there. Um what have you admired most about the way that he's led federated farmers in the in the region?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, they are big boots. Um he has led incredibly well. He he's a very quiet he's a quiet mannered uh gentleman who has a very good ability to draw out the best in people and get people on board and take them with him. And I think that's a that's a key skill that that I'd I'd like to be able to uh you know do some somewhere towards what he's been doing. And he's a very deep thinker, and and that's given us really good, I think, overall thought processes to how to help our whole community because Mid-Canterbury is an incredibly diverse uh community in in agriculture, and he's done a great job of including everybody in it. And if I can do any part of of the way he's done it, it'll be great.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, you talk about diversity, because there's probably a lot more diversity than what we have up here in the Waikato, for example, right? Because you're going from dairy and but you've got that that extreme high country as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah, that's right. I mean, we were talking about it the other day, and and we have everything from high country, foothills, finishing, breeding, um in sheep and beef and deer, uh to the right through to the the big arable, big dairy, uh processed vegetables and specialty crops, as well as as well as m a few orchards and and things like that. So it is, it's it's I think it's probably the most diverse area in you know in the country from that point of view. And and all those voices need to be able to know that they've got someone's got their back.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Does it feel to you like all those those different groups are represented quite well within Feds?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Probably the main ones are. And and the smaller ones, it's just a case of I mean, some of them like have have their own organisations like Horton Z and things like that. So they do um they do. But yes, I think on the whole, Feds does everybody knows that Feds is there as an advocate for all rural community, and I think that that's great.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Hey Kerry, take us to Castle Ridge Station. I was doing quite a bit of reading about it um in the lead up to this interview. Can you paint a bit of a picture for our listeners about the the property? Where exactly are you? What does the country look like? And what makes farming in that environment unique?

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So Castle Ridge Station sits in the middle of the Ashburton Lakes area. We sit in the middle of the basin, uh, in the middle of a basin, so we have Lake Heron above us and the Mary Lakes at the bottom end of, or sort of yeah, part of the bottom end of our property. We have most of the catchment for them for the Mary Lakes, and there's two lakes in in that area. Um so the Otaforicai Merry Lakes is uh is the main lakes group that that is important to us. We also have Lake Emily and on our property. Our property is about 5,900 hectares, uh so quite small for a high country place, in actual fact, uh and slightly different in that we are all freehold, so when we don't have cram pastoral lease, uh we run uh close to probably uh 20,000 stock units made up of merinos and angus beef and a small hind breeding herd. It's a long property, so we've added to it over time. And so it's about 17 K's from one end of the property to the other. And there's a road that runs right through the middle. The TA Trail, the Tara Rail Trail runs right through the middle, um, well not through the middle, but to one side of our property. So it's it's farming in a fishbowl. Uh there's plenty of people that come up here and recreate at the weekends and use the area as well as us farming it. Uh, we're probably more productive than some of it um some high country places in that we don't have a lot of the big high tops anymore. Uh so in actual fact we've got a bigger area of um more productive pasture than than most. We still can't finish anything because the growing season is so short. So we're we go from about 650 metres up to just under 1100 metres in altitude. So it's a slow spring, uh cold winter, a hot, dry summer, and sometimes you get autumn and sometimes you don't. So it it makes for the climate rules what we do really. Um and yeah, that's yeah, that's our biggest challenge, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

And do you have to adapt the system year to year based, you know, quite a lot year to year based on what what's happening with the conditions?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

I I guess that's why we have a pretty simple solid breeding system, is that you can't jump quickly. You have to be able to to manage for the extremes. So that means that, you know, like a a season like this where we had great summer rainfall, better than we've had for for a number of years, uh, we could have done with an awful lot more stock on to manage pasture. But if we'd put them all on and this winter is is a snow winter or a bit tougher, you can't get rid of them in a hurry. So you basically got to stick to your knitting and do what you do well and to the best of your ability and farm for the for those times, and every now and then you you either get a really great season or it's a really tough season and you're pleased that you haven't got too many on, too many stock on.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

These members of the public who go through the on the Teatro Trail, um do you get to sort of interact with them much?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

A little bit. So they they come through from a hut and they come through the edge of our property and then uh through a hill block and then go down the road to their next point. So um in actual fact, quite often we'll pick up hitchhikers, you know, if I'm heading to town or something, I'll quite often pick somebody up and give them a ride or um you know, both ways. Uh they sometimes camp in in in one of the paddocks, you know, if the if they na if they do, that's not ideal. We don't encourage that um unless we've already talked to them. But the the other one are the weekend people, you know, there's there's a car park just off our main yard, and there's a huge number of people go in and out of there, you know, over over the weekends and things. Mountain bikers, trampers, hunters.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Sorry for my ignorance, but how does this work? Like, um I could understand if that was Crown Land, but it's freehold. So do you just allow that um because you're being good people, or do you not have a choice in that?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

No, there's actually an unformed legal road. So the TRR trail was put on the unformed legal road, and that connects the dock land that in actual fact we had sold back to to the Nature Heritage Fund as part of a uh deal when we purchased a piece of Clent Hills. It connects that with the road, and then that moves them down to the next piece of dock land that they travel over. So it's yeah, it's a it's a legal access way that is not maintained by anybody. Um it's just it's there. We can't legally stop access through it, but they do have to stick to the the legal road, which is interesting because sometimes they it's not so much the walkers, uh it's actually the four drivers that that sometimes go off track a bit.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, I bet they do. I was gonna ask if people respect the property.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Most do. And the ones that don't are the ones that, you know, you they're the ones that you have to tow out on a Sunday morning or you know, uh or or yeah, or manage. But no, on the whole, they're pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Funny story about that, Carrie. We um our farm that I grew up on, we the WRC um rally, the the rally championship used to do our road, and um it was a hip and corner, that was why they loved it. But anyway, the old man got a knock on the door uh one time and some joker had come up and um very sheepishly asked Dad, oh, could he come down and help pull him out? Because he he was down the bank, you know, some some joker. Dad went down and they stood there by the car, and the the car's probably on a 45-degree angle over the bank. They stood there looking at it for and chatting for about 20-30 minutes and just having a yarn about you know, whatever, and dad said, Oh, well, better go get the tractor um then and the bloke said, Yeah, all right, I'll just get the missus and kids out of the car while you do it. So that's been sitting all the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Yeah, yeah. Well, we we do we get a few of those. We have had a few um uh where the yeah, where there's been a lot of sheepish, um, you know, sheepish of how how yeah, the kids are out here or or um or the what yeah, the wife says, Well, Jesus, can you um can you get a move on? And I don't care if you're gonna charge us to do it, we need to be out of here.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Um so you mentioned it's freehold. Um am I correct that Paul, your husband, that his parents bought it in the early 90s? Is that is that the history?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yes, so so Paul's family came up here in in 1992, his his parents um and and Paul and his brother, and we came at the same time. You know, um Paul and I were together then, and we and we came up at the same time. Um and then uh Paul and I went on and and managed Mount Arismith, which is next n a neighbouring property, for a few years, uh, and then came home. And while we were away, we we managed to buy out Paul's brother who who didn't want to stay on the farm. Uh he was off doing other things. Uh, and then uh in the last few years we've gone through farm succession with Paul's father and mother, and that got all sorted, and then yes, and then that's left the two of us uh at the moment uh with a family trust, and the uh kids are all pretty keen to be involved. And in actual fact, our son Ben's just come home. He came home at the end of last year and is uh just getting his head around the whole property, really.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

So you said that you and Paul moved up in 1992 as well. Where were you farming at the time?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

So, in actual fact, I don't come from farming background, and uh we met when I was working full-time before I went to Lincoln. Uh so I did an ag science degree at Lincoln and uh basically was working as a farm consultant. When we came, so we were we stayed on and managed the old home farm. So basically the the family uh sold the the home home farm which was Mount Alford at Alfred Forest, and then came up to here, and so Paul and I stayed on down there until the new new owners took over. And that of course was a 1992 snow winter. So Paul and I were I was still at Lincoln at that point, and Paul and I uh look were down there in an awful lot of snow, and they were actually better off up here, uh, where there was a lot of snow, but it was powder, dry powder, whereas down there it was very deep, heavy, wet snow, and it was pretty pretty sold-strawing, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I grew up at in ho in Horata, which is a small rural town on the other on the north side of the Rakaya River. My father was a a journalist, he was a uh sub-editor and a feature writer with the press. But I'd always had a an interest and I always wanted to go farming. So I didn't think I would ever be in the position I've managed to, you know, I never thought I'd be able to be on a high country place. It was always my dream. Um so I decided pretty early that um actually if I couldn't if I couldn't own a farm then in my own right, then helping people who were farming was probably the next best thing. So that's why I went down the con consultancy route.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So high country farming can look pretty romantic from the outside, you know, the beautiful high country hills and up there on horseback and this and that, but the realities are now pretty unforgiving. And you you've talked about this um a little bit already, but with the snow and the conditions.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

But what are some of the really big day-to-day challenges that people might not appreciate I think some of it is is actually around balancing and managing everything as a whole. So it's not it's not an easy, you you can't just make a change in a hurry. You can't put some fertilizer on and get a response instantly. You you can't, we don't have an irrigator. Um, you can't, you know, there's there's no er, it's dry land and you're very much at the whim of the of the climate, and your responses to anything are slower. So you have to be able to balance your stock numbers and stock condition uh and feed um amounts in order to keep everything ticking over. And I think it's the number of moving parts uh that you have in this sort of a property and the fact that you're constantly balancing different types of country. So it's not all developed paddocks, it's not all nice square paddocks with easy water supply and grass. Um you're constantly going, well, actually, if we if we eat out that part of the farm, where will we go if it turn if the weather turns to custard? It's about balance and managing risk. And I guess that's the biggest thing, is that the you know you've got to move on your feet to make decisions early enough to be able to change things ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Do you love it though? Do you love being up there in the in the high country?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Absolutely. Every day is different. The the landscape, the light, the light on the hills, um, the the landscape is different every day. There's the no two days are the same. It's just amazing. Yeah, it's an incredible place to live. And the landscapes are always different, and it's a pretty amazing place to be. Um we feel very, very privileged to actually to be able to be uh stewards of of up here. And you know that you're only here for a short time and that this country's bigger and older than we are, um, and we've got to look after it really.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Now you and Paul have like really clearly invested in environmental stewardship on the station. Um can you talk us through some of the work that you've done there over the years?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, it's I guess it's the sort of proper I mean, the high country is simply that you have to work with nature. You can't fight against it. So so everything you do is within the realms of of working with what you have and what and what gets thrown at you. So you can't run to maximum at all. So that means that um you've always got a look at, you know, what areas do we need to look after? Um so that's you know, riparian strips, fencing and looking after shrublands and natural areas that have always been natural. I mean, a lot of those are useful to us as natural shelter for stock as well, but we've always probably made sure that if we've developed a block uh out of native, and and this is, you know, this is not just Paul and I, this is his parents as well, that that in actual fact the pieces that should be left have been left. So there's a lot of biodiversity, um, there's a lot of corridors of of patches of native um you know biodiversity. And and it's not it's not bush we're talking about, it's a lot of its scrubland, so it's you know Madagari and and Milimbeckia and those types of species rather than big tall stuff, but it's it enables the area to, you know, everything that lives there to have a place. Um and we've done more recently, we've done a lot of uh work towards looking after our soils. Um we haven't used anything but uh crosslot direct drill here for for 20 years, and that's that's a conscious decision to try and reduce soil movement and soil erosion. We do a lot, a lot in that space. You know, yeah, I guess it's just a lot of a lot of wetland management, and in the last few years since we've got our catchment group going, we've been doing a lot of science and a lot of riparian more riparian fencing and planting and ways of doing things differently.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Oh, brilliant. Thanks for walking us through that. Um, and you guys won the Canterbury Balance Farm Environment Awards supreme title this year in recognition of all that incredible work. What did that mean to you personally, Carrie? Um, especially given some of the battles that you've been facing at the same time, and we'll get into that part of it soon. But yeah, what did that recognition mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 20:04

That was pretty amazing. We I guess we have always just beavered away doing lots of little things and hadn't really thought about we were surprised that the things that the judges picked up on that they said, this is actually really pretty neat. Because they were things that we just did as standard practice because because, like I say, you've got to you've got to work with nature and and we've always tried to to work, you know, with the smallest footprint, environmental footprint we could. So that was that surprised us. But I I think it's getting that good story out there that has been so important. It's often the focus, and particularly the focus up here in the Ashburn Lakes, has been on the negative. And so it was great to be able to have a positive story to tell the public.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, and and so that leads us into this issue that you've been having. Can you talk to us a bit about what's been going on there with with the ECAN consent process?

SPEAKER_02 21:03

So because we are in a sensitive lakes zone, we have had to have a consent to farm since um 2016. We got our first consent by uh putting together a uh a reasonably robust farm environment plan, and uh it was a non-notified consent. It was it we had to, like I say, we spent the money to get a good uh consultant in to help us put together a good um farm environment plan. We had a plan in place, uh, and to be fair, we've actually just we've actually done everything that we said we were going to do pretty much in that plan and continued with more in some areas. That wasn't a terribly expensive process and it was reasonably simple. But then when we came to renew our consent in 2021, and suddenly the rules had changed, and suddenly I think what did happen was that there was a lot. Of external political pressure came in as well. And suddenly we were facing a full public notification, which has happened. And we're not doing anything different to what that first consent was was. We haven't increased our stock numbers, we haven't changed our farm system. And that was what was so frustrating was in actual fact our environmental impact has probably reduced because we are farming, I would have said, better than we were because we know more and we've fenced more and we've we've m changed a lot of management with fertilizer use and things. We were never excessive. In fact, we were we've never been very high, but we've changed what we do specifically to try and reduce our impact, and yet we were getting the book thrown at us. And we still are. A notice went in the um newspaper in the in the Crosschurch Press and in other places, and anyone uh anywhere could put a submission in about our farm, uh about our consent application. So they were given they were given they get given a little bit of information, I think, about what the consent application was. So in our case it was for a sheep, beef and and deer breeding operation and growing associated winter feed crops. Um but anyone, anyone anywhere, and in fact at that point anyone in the world could have uh submitted either for and support of us or against us being able to continue to farm in this environment. And yeah, from a personal point of view, that was incredibly hard on Paul and I. We're a you know, we're a small family business and we had the world choosing to have an opinion on whether we should even be here or not. Having never been here, never set foot on the place, never knowing anything about us as people or what our values were or anything, that was that was raw. That was really hard uh emotionally and and mentally.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah, and you s at the very start you referred to you guys as sort of being in a bit of a fishbowl. And I was sort of thinking about that as you were speaking. You know, everybody's looking in and can can pile in to say whether you should or shouldn't be farming there. Um did you yeah, I mean, did you end up copping some some pretty um negative, you know, were there some pretty negative submissions that came in?

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Uh no, interestingly enough, when when it comes to there's lots of keyboard warriors out there. And so whenever there's been anything in the media about uh about this area, everybody gets onto social media and has a go. But when it came to actually writing a submission, putting it in, in actual fact, the only people who did were the the genuine um affected parties, so the genuine people who have an interest in this area, um, the likes of, you know, uh Forest and Bird, Fish and Game, Doc and Co. who who are all we've already been working with. Um and that I found that quite interesting that uh and some and some nice support from from some other local farmers. And that was interesting because they uh there's lots of people out there that that want to have a say, but when it came to the crux, they actually didn't. Um I suppose I'm I'm pretty grateful for that because at the end of the day the next step in the process becomes a a hearing process, and every one of those submitters is has the opportunity to be heard, and we pay for all of that. So that so that if there had been a whole lot more submitters, that would have all come out of our pocket.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Do you mind if I ask like how much you've spent roughly already on this process?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Probably in the vicinity of 150,000 so far to date. Um, and if we have the hearing process, we will be, I would expect we'll be at least another hundred uh to get out the other side. And this is for a ten-year consent to continue to do what we're doing currently. So we are looking at two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to get a ten-year consent to just run an standard farm.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

To keep doing what you've been doing, which is better than what you were doing ten years prior.

unknown 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah. Um so did when did your consent actually officially expire?

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Well, it officially expired in twenty twenty-one, but you can apply if you get your application for a new consent, because you know, everybody talks about consent renewals, it's not a renewal. We have to apply for a new consent. Um, if you do that within six months of of your expiry date of your current consent, you then have what's called continuance. And so that gave us the ability to continue to farm and be compliant. Um, and we'd already been audited a couple of times in the previous five years of consent. So so it wasn't like we were we were going to do things that we shouldn't do or couldn't or weren't entitled to be able to do. Um, we've continued to farm within within our consent constraints over that time. And what happened was we got caught up in the overseer review and a number of other political things that were going on, the freshwater reforms in 2020, etc. And so all those things uh meant that our consent sat on hold for about uh three and a half to four years, and then suddenly it popped back up again, and ECAN uh started saying, well, right, we want this, we want this tidied up. It's it's one of our long-term consents, it's never been finished. Um we've got a deadline of getting these done by, and I think it was either December last year or the year before, uh, and they said, right, we're gonna get this underway, and and suddenly the time frames became very constrained, and that put a lot of pressure on us because some of those time frames for providing information were at really busy times of the year when we were sharing and lambing and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

So, and it and then you've gone and won the Balance Farm Environment Award Supreme title. Can you not march into ECAN waving a waving a certificate or something around?

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Well, the the the very ironic thing is that we actually won the ECAN Prize for Water Quality. Um so that yes, there was a lot of irony involved. Uh we've just had our our field day that we that we do as as Supreme winners, and that was actually pretty neat because to give them their dues, there was probably about 20 ECAN staff and and um governance people there right through the the uh management chain, and that was a m that was awesome to see because they actually did come and get out and see the property. And unfortunately, it's sad that it took that to do it because we had been asking a lot of these people to get out of the office and come and see for themselves for a number of years and and often hit roadblocks. This time they came. I think there's some pretty there's some new people within ECAN, and so far in the uh the the the tide seems to be turning slightly and they do seem to be looking for a different way of doing things. So that was actually a really positive day and a really positive thing that they did get out and and have a look. And I think we did blow them away with the fact that uh we have done a lot and we have still got a lot that we want to do.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Is there any chance then that them having seen it in person that uh you might just get given consent, it might not have to go to a hearing, or does it have to go to a hearing because people of groups have submitted?

SPEAKER_02 30:39

That's where we're sitting at the moment. I think they're grappling with whether they can actually do that or not. I'm not sure that they can uh stop the hearing process, but what we can do is because of the fantastic work that Feds and um the some of the members of of the government that we have currently did before Christmas, we actually managed to get that legislation over the line that enables us to fall back on that continuance. So we can actually pull out of the process for this consent that we have currently running. That would mean that we wouldn't have to do the the hearing, but at the moment it starts us back at the beginning of the application process again. So, so and I have to to to give credit where it's due, and there is definitely appears to be a bit of an appetite from ECAN at the moment to try and work with us to find some sort of solution. Uh, we are very lucky that we now have that four-wack position because we uh uh before Christmas we didn't. It would there was absolutely no option other than to go to hering. And so now at least we have a choice and hopefully between us we can come up with something that's sensible and doesn't now cost us a whole lot of money to go back to square one again.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

That uh win that you were talking about pre-Christmas, where uh the you know consents have been rolled over, you were actually um fronting that publicly for feds. Um why did you agree to to do that, to put yourself out there um and to front up to the media and share your story so candidly?

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah, that was a pretty tough call because to date we had kept our head down because we were in the thick of it and we did not want to jeopardise our position on our own farm, we'd kept our head down. Um but it to be honest, it got to a point where we said, and and and there were other people, likes of David Clark, that were starting to to come out and and talk about their struggles in in the same vein. We just said, well, this is ridiculous. We can't let this roll over and just do nothing about it. We do actually now is the time to stand up and and speak out about things. And it was amazing actually because it did enable us to hear a lot of other stories about people who were going through similar things. And there were people that I didn't know were going through some of those things in the same vein. And I and so you you always think you're beavering away on your own and you're the only one in that situation. And sometimes it takes that that little bit of grit to stand up and say, well, this is happening to me, and suddenly you discover that there's a whole lot of other people in the same boat.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Yeah, good on you. And and you you guys and and David Clark, yeah. Man, you guys did some awesome work there, and uh and it probably took a lot of media interviews as well. Um I I just want to shift a little bit and talk about some of the other uh issues, I guess, that are happening in in Mid-Canterbury. Um, what are you hearing farmers talking to you about most right now, Carrie? Is it um regulation, costs, water, succession, staffing? You know, what what's weighing on people?

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Yeah, I think it's interesting because Mid-Canterbury is so diverse, as we talked about earlier, in actual fact, there's two sides to Mid-Canterbury at the moment. The dairy guys are um on a bit of a roll with with payout prices in their Fonterra payout. The meat, anybody that's growing meat is the same. So sheep, meat and beef are both looking really good. But then we've got our poor old arable guys who, you know, are absolutely struggling for this for for the you know uh second or third year in a row, and they're not getting a lot of support from their wider industry, from the seed companies and co. And they are really, really struggling. Um there's that, and there's the district council choosing to move out of managing stockwater races. Uh that's also causing a few headaches around the place because in actual fact those stockwater races are not just for stockwater. Some people still have relied on those for a water supply for homes and things, but also drainage and flood control. Those waterways um have been part of a network across Mid-Canterbury that that soak up the the uh gaps when you know when we have a flooding event, and if they are not going to be maintained or closed, then you've got to say, well, where does that water go? So there's a number of issues, but and and you know, those are the key ones, I guess. They regulation-wise, everybody is is concerned about local government rig reform. No one knows where that's going, and we're working pretty hard as a commu as a community, particularly in the Ashburton area, um, in in mid-Canterbury, to make sure that everybody's voices gets heard.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Hey, and just putting your high country hat on for a second, what are the big challenges in that sector? I mean, we've we've covered them quite a bit on this podcast, but I'd be interested in in getting your perspective on that.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I would say constraints on things like what we've just talked about about consenting, because suddenly there are conditions on your ability to farm, i.e. where you have stock or how many stock you have, and and so you know, where you grow your winter feed, those types of practical things actually make a massive difference in the high country to your ability to be agile and change with climate change and uh markets. So I think that that is actually quite a risk to us in the high country because we don't have a lot of options and ways to move and go. Um weed in pest control is still a massive issue. Um, whether it's whether it's wallabies, pigs, deer, wilding pines, they're all things that uh high country guys spend an awful lot of money on relative to the income capacity of their properties. And then it's really simply the fact that most of us live quite a long way away from services. So that means that things like the fuel cost at the moment is pretty hard work on freight, spraying, fertilizer spreading, all those things. It's always been dairy to get stuff uh further away from from ports and major cities and towns, but it's twice the price now.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Do you have uh a problem with wallabies on your property?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

No, there's no wallabies up here yet. Um I say yet because in actual fact ECAN have done a lot of uh surveillance work. There's been a number of unconfirmed sightings and with things maybe moving across the Rangatada River. And so we are really strongly trying to keep them out where there's that's the last thing we need.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Looking ahead, five or ten years, Carrie, you can pick which one. Um what what is what do you what does success look like um both for you and Paul at Castle Ridge Station and also for Federated Farmers in Mid-Canterbury?

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Uh success for the farm, I think, is having the next generation settled in and able to be uh profitable, sustainable, and looking after in a stewardship role as well, if not better than what we have. For Paul and I, it probably means having a bit of time to be able to do what we want to do a little bit more, um, see a bit more of New Zealand and and perhaps overseas, do a few of the things that we want to do because we're not quite so tied to the farm. From a federated farmers' role in mid-Canterbury, I'd like to see Mid-Canterbury thriving. I'd like to see Federated Farmers within Mid-Canterbury thriving. I think it's not the same, there's not the same numbers of people involved as there were 20 years ago when I first got involved, and I would love to see uh more young people getting back involved and understanding that actually Feds is about being a great advocate for your for the industry that you're in and that they do a huge amount of good work, and sometimes that goes under the radar.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Have you got any ideas for how to get more of those young folks involved?

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yeah, a little bit. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that in in the past the structure was perhaps a little bit more set in that you know you you learnt the ropes of meetings and things like that in in young farmers while you had a lot of fun, and then you often moved with a cohort that had got to a certain age into the likes of federated farmers. I think that's changed, and I think it's really a case of working out how to tap in and how to uh give young people those skills to be able to be good, effective leaders um and have some fun with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Do you reckon we maybe need to get some of the Fed's leaders along to those young farmers' meetings a bit more often?

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Oh, absolutely. That's yeah, and that's something that I'll probably try and do a little bit of.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Just for you and Paul personally, you talked about, you know, you'd love to be able to free up a bit of time um to to do some travel and things. Just out of interest, where where would you like to go? What what sorts of things would you like to do if you um can it manage to achieve that?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

There's a lot of New Zealand we haven't seen yet, and we're pretty keen to put a couple of horses in a horse float and and go trekking in uh in in some of the back parts of New Zealand. Go off a few a few back roads, and and I guess we've got uh our youngest daughters in in the UK, has been for the last two years. I don't know whether she'll come home anytime soon, so it'd be nice to to see some of the other parts of the world that are similar to New Zealand, the likes of South America or perhaps Canada, that do, you know, uh yeah, just just for an interest's sake, really.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

If you could change one thing tomorrow about the way that farming is regulated or understood in New Zealand, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 41:12

I think it would be to and it's not an easy answer, um, but I think it would be to incorporate flexibility. Uh local solutions for local problems and getting everybody around the table. I think too many decisions are made from a distance without necessarily understanding the unintended consequences of those actions.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

What's one thing that you think farmers should start doing, one thing you think they should stop doing, and one thing you think they should keep doing?

SPEAKER_02 41:47

The start doing and the keep doing, I think, are sort of similar. Um I think they should start telling the positive stories, don't just focus on the negative and what's wrong. I think we're we tend to to dig ourselves in holes a little bit and and we need to be telling good stories all the time, not just some of the time. Uh I think we need to stop playing down our contribution and our work for the na for ourselves and for the nation. I think we underestimate what we do and how and how much we do. And I think we should keep talking and keep communicating, keep being involved in learning and listening and keep seeking support.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Hey Kerry, thank you so much for your time. I think you're someone we'll probably have back on the podcast. I can tell you've got a lot more to give. Um, you've got a lot of great answers there.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I hope I can do it do the job justice. I'm pretty proud, but I'm also slightly um uh yeah, I hope I can do a good enough job for everybody. Uh, an actual fact. And uh yeah, I know I'm looking forward to it. It's pretty exciting, really.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Good on you, Kiri, and congrats again on the on the on the role!

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you've enjoyed it and you'd like to hear more, subscribe to the Federated Farmers Podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts so that you get notified when our new episodes drop. And if you have any feedback or podcast suggestions, we'd love to hear from you. Please drop us a line, podcast at fedfarm.org.nz. That's podcast at fedfarm.org.nz. Catch you next time.