Hello and welcome to Sunburnt Souls. I am sitting across the table from Dave Quack, and today he is going to share with us a little bit about his story, his history, and how he came to be here. So let's just start with your name, your age, and your favourite chocolate.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, my name is David Trevor Quack. I realise that is a terrible name, but I didn't choose it. I am 43 years old, and my favorite chocolate is Chock Mint. Dark Chalk Mint.
SPEAKER_00:Dark Chalk Mint. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I like that. You either love or hate dark chocolate. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So tell us a little bit about yourself. You're obviously a pastor.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:How did you get into that pastoral space?
SPEAKER_01:Kind of by accident. So I became a Christian when I was about 20, and I was quite zealous, extroverted. So usually that's the combination for someone to make you a youth leader. So zealous and extroverted. And I started serving in a church and quite quickly became the youth pastor there. And then from there, that was in Brisbane. And then from there, I ended up doing a placement for evangelism at a church on the Gold Coast. And that pastor, I mean, long story short, he approached us and poached us and got us down to be youth pastors down on the Gold Coast. And so we were youth pastors for about eight years.
SPEAKER_00:We being you and my wife?
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, my wife and I, yes. We've always been pastors together. Not we as in there's two of me. And then we planted a church about 12 years ago and have been leading that ever since.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. So you've been in ministry for 20 years.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Well done.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you. 20 years, been married for 20 years as well. About five years ago, I went to my GP who's a legend. His name's Paul. And he, you know, he did a mental health assessment with me and started me on the process of chatting about my mental health. As part of that, he referred me to a psychologist, and he was an awesome guy called Sean. And then I went to him for a bunch of sessions, which then led me to go seeing a psychiatrist. And as part of journeying with this psychiatrist, he acknowledged, yes, Dave, you've got anxiety and you've got depression, and he helped me work out the medication regime with that. But he also diagnosed me with a condition called bipolar, which has anxiety and depression as kind of like characteristics of that.
SPEAKER_00:And to define just to go back bipolar, from what I understand, when you're talking about manic, those manic sort of episodes, because everyone has those fluctuations in their emotional response. You could be really heightened, but and all that sort of stuff. But it doesn't last for a super long amount of time. Or you know, you can sort of calm yourself down. But from my understanding, those manic sessions last over anywhere between four and eighteen days.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Is that about right? Well, it is depending on your diagnosis.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if I'm an overachiever, but my manic episodes could go for like a month or two months.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so so you can imagine. What I haven't been open till probably right now, Amelia, is the I is the truth that that actually falls under my bigger diagnosis of bipolar type 2. So both anxiety and depression can be symptoms of having bipolar. You know, it used to be called manic depression or manic depressive people. And so basically, it as the name sounds, it's two ends of the spectrum: bipolar. Like, you know, you're you can get incredibly elated and then incredibly defeated. And so for me, I'd get these periods of mania that would last for, yeah, like I said, one to two months. And in those times, I would be fixated on certain things. So maybe I'd research something I'd want to like, like an initiative I'd want to start, and I'd research it to death. Or, you know, I'd look at uh an idea and I couldn't stop fixating on it. So, you know, and and and it'd grip me in that it'd be the first thing I think about when I wake up, and the last thing I think about when I go to sleep, and it'd consume me. Now, you've got to understand on on the good side, if it was something that was good for me and good for even ministry, the kingdom, my family, it can it can work out well, but a lot of times it didn't. So I'd get like fixated on maybe trying to make money or something, and then make poor financial decisions.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And and and then that'd come back to bite me, and I'd be convinced that it's a great decision. Like when you're in a manic phase, you think that your ideas are brilliant. You know, you think, man, this is gonna change the world. And some of them might change the world, but a lot of them destroy your world.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, so like I'll get in these manic phases and I'll be, you know, researching and and finding people who agree with me, and I'll be absolutely sure. And then unfortunately for my wife and my family, they've been the recipients of like countless sales pitches.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so like a lot of you know, a lot of guys whine and dine their wife because they want to get sex later or whatever else. But for me, I'd like wine and dine Jess because later I'm like, I've got a sales pitch for you, you know. So she'd be like, oh, Dave's being extra nice tonight. And then by the end of the night, I'd light a candle, I'd be like, Jess. Don't you think it would be great if we moved to Vanuatu? And she'd be like, What? I've done all the research, I've found a house for us, I've worked out the budget, I've found someone to rent our house while we're away. We can bring the dog, everything's sorted out, let's move to Vanuatu, you know, and in my head, it makes sense, everything's great. And I feel for her and the family because there's been countless, you know, sales pitches, but they're gracious and they're on the journey with me. But so that's what happens when I'm manic, and then when I'm depressive, I really go from thinking my ideas can change the world and that I'm a key player in that all the way through to I just got to get a job packing shelves. I don't want to see another person again. It would be awesome if I could work in a factory stuffing envelopes, you know, and just want to withdraw from the world and think, oh, anything I've achieved has been useless. Like really, as the name bipolar sounds, you really go from one to the other. And so, in speaking to my psychiatrist, he's the one who diagnosed me with this after doing a lot of work. And I'm thankful for it because once I had the diagnosis and I could do some research about the symptoms and some of the characteristics, it kind of made me feel like I was understood. When I read the symptoms, I'm like, I do that, I do that, I do that, I do that. And it then provided a framework in order for me to then move forward.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it. And realizing that you're not a crazy person.
SPEAKER_01:No, because you feel like one until you meet another bipolar person and you click with them and you're like, this guy's a genius. His ideas are fantastic. We should go into business together, and you you know, you think. That's right. The amount of you know, dead websites and ABN numbers and like all these other things that I've set up, Amelia, it's just ridiculous. I'm constantly getting reminders from GoDaddy about a website I started five years ago or a so it's got those side effects. But anyway, with the psychiatrist, he diagnosed me with bipolar after a big, you know, a long journey with him and the and the psychologist as well. And then they started me on a couple of medicines, uh, medication one is called sodium volpray. So that is a mood stabilizer. It actually started as an epilepsy medication, and then they this was I think back in the 60s or maybe earlier, and then they just found that it also had these, you know, positive effects on people with bipolar. You know how that happens with medicine. Sometimes one thing's designed for one thing and it helps in another area. Yeah. So I'm on that, and then I'm also on an antipsychotic called Ceroquil. Now, saying that out loud is pretty confronting, you know, saying you're on an antipsychotic. Uh yeah, and if you Google Seroquil, it's also another, you know, quite popular medication. Because when I'm manic, I just can't sleep and don't sleep, and I and it just perpetuates and gets worse and worse.
SPEAKER_00:So those medications have been game changers for you?
SPEAKER_01:They have. I am so thankful to God for these medications. So it's it took a while to get there, like the balance of like the dose, and you know, that was that it probably took a a year to figure out the balance before everything was sorted out. But once it's sorted out, and now if I stick to the regime, everything's fantastic. The only thing that's difficult is if I forget to plan ahead and I um, you know, mess up the regime, it does affect me. So even last night we went to the cricket. My wife, she's epic, but she's just this 2020 cricket fan, and she's just such a jock. She stays up all night watching cricket. When the last test was on, she was getting up at like 2 a.m. and just watching the cricket all day. Uh it's in the family too. Her grandma's a cricket jock and her dad and everyone else. Anyway, so we're at the cricket last night, and I forgot to take my sodium volprate with me, which is the mood stabilizer. You know, I'm not manic at the moment, but I'm like 70%. Like I'm energetic and I'm managing it. So everything is quite good, but I've got to watch it at this point in time in my life. And I didn't take my mood stabilizers with me, and I could feel by about nine o'clock I was just getting real irritated by the people around me, and there was this kid next to me making noise. Not my kid, another kid. You know, my kids were making noise, but I got time for them. You know, there's just a random kid making noise, and you know, it was just getting and then they had fireworks at half time, and I know people love fireworks, but I'm like, man, this is loud. Yeah, you know, and it was just irritating. So I'm thankful for the medication, but it does have me in a place where I do I do depend on it, you know, and I'm thankful, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I'm sort of similar, like I've always struggled with um anxiety and depression, and I remember when I first went on my medication, it it almost felt ungodly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. You're right.
SPEAKER_00:Did did you experience anything like that?
SPEAKER_01:So this is the thing going deep rule straight away. No, let's get there. Because the catch 22 with being a pastor, or not even just a pastor, I think any Christian, any functioning Christian who loves Jesus, is that our theology on healing and how God intervenes really affects our mental headspace when it comes to medication. Yes. You know, because you've got two ends of the spectrum, like you've got people right down one side that think that anything mental health is just some like it's a demonic force that needs to be prayed over and delivered, and then you'll be set free. And then you've got the other end where it's like, okay, there's no spiritual attachment to mental health. It is just a, you know, medical condition, and if you have the right chemical, you know just like diabetes, if you've got diabetes, you need to take insulin. You know, there's elements of of truth, I think, in both ends of the spectrum, but then there's a million areas in between as well that are really complicated to figure out. Because in my life, I've seen people get healed when we pray for them, and I've seen people not get healed when we pray for them. And I've seen people set free, and I've seen people bound, you know, and and so for me when I first started taking medication, okay, I was cool with it when it was anxiety and depression because I feel like that's a bit more of a common conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like acceptable.
SPEAKER_01:It's a bit acceptable, and I think maybe people understand it a little bit more. And I think people understand that it's not something that isn't treatable, and it's and it's also not like that old idea that it's just something you have to get over, or you know, that's that stupid stuff that we dealt with 20 years ago. You know, like I think people have a better understanding of it, and organizations like Beyond Blue and all those guys are doing a fantastic job helping people understand mental health. But for me, it actually was when it I I don't know, graduated or whatever you the word is, when it went from being anxiety and depression medication to bipolar medication, that was really hard for me to share. So that's actually over three years ago now. Yep, and I'm only now at a place where I'm able to share that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and I've been wrestling with why that has taken me so long. And I think a lot of it is possibly my own pride. Um, that's one element of it. And another element of it is is I wanted to really understand it for myself before speaking about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And I think the third reason I didn't want to maybe share it is that my life's quite um open already.
SPEAKER_00:It's very personal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. And so like it was something that I'm like, I don't know if this is for everyone yet. You know, so I had a small group of people, maybe less than five people who knew, and now it's sort of starting to trickle out. And I I I you know, I also maybe didn't give people enough credit because when people find out they don't come to a place of judgment or condemnation. Usually it's a place of compassion and understanding and love, you know, and so yeah, all of that together.
SPEAKER_00:It's a massive, massive journey. Yeah, it is, and it's good to hear this is the whole point of this. It's going, okay, just because we're Christians, like God heals in many different ways. Yeah. You know, whether he wants that to be through uh miraculous healing or through medications, you know, or we've got something to learn, whatever that is, or he wants to use us to spread the word about God and mental health, like whatever that looks like, yeah, there's there's a space for that.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly it. And I even think we can even call uh you know medication miraculous healing too. Like, you know, we we we look at instant miracles as miracles, and they are.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But the fact that some scientist in a lab, some uber nerd with his glasses on and petri dishes and everything, figured out that if this chemical is given to someone with this condition, it levels out their chemicals and they can live in a place of freedom and abundance. I'm like, man, God bless that scientist. Yeah. You know, the unsung hero that nobody sees. You know, because there's never the big pharmaceutical company giving credit to that little Yeah, the little researcher. The little researcher who's just, you know, dug in his heels and for maybe 10, 15, 20 years tried to figure this stuff out and has. I'm thankful for that guy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:And he does heal in all different ways. And this is something that I found interesting, and even through some of my darkest times, God revealed himself to be the kindest that I've ever known him. Which was really quite surprising. So about three years ago, no, maybe two years ago, I fell into okay, so I was manic for way too long.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Like months and months and months and months. And I hit a wall and burned out, and then just fell into this dark heap for a really extended period of time. In that darkness, I like this is how my day existed. So basically, I'd get up, be like, no man, the alarm's gone off. You know, you look over and because sleep was like this escape from the darkness, you know, like it was-like four hours a night.
SPEAKER_00:It's not time to push that away.
SPEAKER_01:It's not time, not much of a break. Oh, that's cold. Anyway, so I'd wake up, be like, no, and then it'd be this like like this, I don't know, dread. Yeah, the dread of the day, man. And I'd look at my phone and I'd look at the meetings that were coming up. So I was still a pastor at this time. So once once I hit that wall, I'd stop being a lecturer. I was still a pastor, and so I'd look at my schedule and there'd be somebody to see, something to prepare, you know, just the usual in and outs of being a spiritual leader. And I'd be like, man, I love that person, but I just want to stay in bed here. You know, but I also wanted to exercise my role as a pastor. These people, they're my family. Like the church when you plan a church, you don't just become like a pastor of these people, you're family with these people.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So I'd have this like kind of trinity of coffee, holy spirit, and grit just getting me through the day. And I'd be like, I've got to get through the day. So I'd exercise my duties as best as I could, and then by maybe like 3 or 4 p.m., I'd be at home. I've got this couch, it's a reclining couch, it's amazing. Do you know man robes? Like it's like a bathrobe, but it's like fluffy. Yeah, the fluffy robes. You know those fluffy robes. I'll be sitting on my couch with my man robe over my head in the dark, kind of like as a sensory deprivation type thing, just trying to escape from the world. Jesus, please, man, this is terrible. I'm hating this. Can you just get me through? And then, yeah, and then my kids would get home. And this was the hardest part, to be honest, Amelia, is that my wife is just the best mum. And so I'd hear her goofing around with the kids, and you know, and then if I ever heard her just hanging out with my daughter alone, they're they're they got so many common interests, they'd be talking about a book they're reading or something. I could picture in my head her hanging out with my daughter, and my son just kind of milling around with no one hanging out with him, and it really messed with my head, and I didn't have the capacity. This is the craziest thing, is that I just didn't have the capacity to pull the robe over my head and go and play with my son. Now, there'd be some people listening saying, just pull the robe over and go play with your son. But I was cactus, man. Like, you've got to understand, like, I was dark, you know. It felt physically painful to be alive. And so I get through the day, go to bed early, try to sleep, you know, wake up at 2 a.m., 4 a.m., 6 a.m., you know, and then oh no, the alarm would go off, we've got to do this again on repeat. Yes, it was dark. I remember someone saying me through the process, because I I tried to get help from mentors and some really good guys spoke into my life. But this one man in particular said, Look, your brain's gone on holidays, man. Your body is in preservation mode, it's all gonna come back one day. You're going to be fine, and not only are you gonna be fine, you're gonna be thankful to God for this process. And I'm like, there is no way I am gonna be thankful. This is the worst. I hate this. Fast forward a couple of years, and my family and I were on a long service leave in Thailand, and I went on that long service leave thinking, I reckon this might be the end of me being a pastor. I think I've had enough. I think I've had enough people. I don't know if I've got the capacity to be a spiritual leader anymore. I'm done. We're on this trip, and you know, a lot of the discussions Jess and I had were about whether or not I'm gonna continue in ministry. Like, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I remember we were, it was like the 15th of January, and I remember crying out to God. We're in this little like BB in um in Bangkok, just saying, you know what, God, I am done. I can't do this anymore. And in as I said, I can't do this anymore, this sense of peace came over me. And it was like God was saying, Finally, you get it. It's like you can't do this, and that's what's been wrong. Part of the deficit to your life in Christ is that you think you can do this, that you think it's your responsibility, you think that people are following you, you think that you're their leader, you know, all these things. And once I said I can't do this anymore, it was almost like God was like, Okay, now you're ready. And then a couple of weeks later, I'm I'm at home, right? And the darkness continued still for a couple of weeks, but then I'm at home one day, and I woke up and felt awesome. It was so weird, right? I felt awesome, and I wanted to get out of bed, and I got up before the alarm. I'm like, this is so weird. So I just kind of pushed through the day enjoying. I didn't say anything to anyone, and I'm like, wow, and then the next day, the same thing. I got up again and the darkness had lifted, you know, and then again the next day, the darkness had lifted, and then so maybe like five or six days later, I was so excited, right? I go up to my wife, and I'm like, I think. I think we're good. Like, I think the darkness has lifted. And she was obviously a bit like, oh, well, I hope so, but she didn't want to count her chickens before they hatch. Right. Because she'd been journeying with me. And it had lifted, and the presence of God was on me. Now, this is the thing. Like, even though the darkness had lifted in that capacity, still today I struggle with bipolar and the anxiety and the depression. And I've got to wrestle it through. But there was something about that two-year period of darkness that almost burnt the rest of the flesh I was holding on to off me. And although I was swearing at that guy who said one day, I'll be thankful for this time, I actually am thankful for it. And I finally get it. Like I get that. And in that time as well, um, God really revealed his affection to me. You know, like I'd al always known God since being a Christian, but not like this. Like he revealed a like his affection for me and his love for me and his care for me. And the fact that he doesn't just love me, but he likes me too. And he enjoys my company and and he's he doesn't just tolerate my quirkiness or whatever. He knit me together in my my mother's womb to be like this. Like and I've gone from a place of knowing about God to definitely knowing him and and having his I don't know, like I prefer his will to my will now, and not out of obligation, but I actually just prefer it. And I'd actually rather hang out with him than not. And I'd rather be in his presence and I'd rather be a minister than not. You know, so from going from a place of thinking of hanging up the skates when it came to being a pastor to now being the most thankful person on the planet to be a pastor is a miracle, and and I think that's why I want to get this Sunburnt Souls thing going uh well, is because I think there's just so many people who are in a similar position where we are wrestling with our mental health, we love Jesus passionately, and we're just trying to figure out how that all works together. Yes, yeah, you know, and and how to live fully and be broken and how to, you know, how it all it's just a mess sometimes, you know.
SPEAKER_00:A massive mess. All right, so you've mentioned you know how this has all impacted you and your spiritual journey. What's the sort of impact been for your family? For my family.
SPEAKER_01:Oh your lovely life. So delightful. I love my family. Okay, so it has been amazing and horrible, and there's been tears and hugs. It's been the best and the worst. So I'll start with Jess. So for Jess, to be married to someone with my condition has so many benefits, and I'll start with those because but like so I do bring a lot of fun to our family, you know. So that there'll be times where like I'll go out and come home with a boat, or you know, and look, I know some of those things aren't, you know, anyone who's bought a boat is like that is the worst financial decision you can possibly make. But I buy it in the name of fun, and then we go and have fun, and we do have fun, and so you know, there's that excitement around the family. You know, sometimes we'll be like, Okay, dad's cooking dinner tonight, and I'll go out for KFC and come home with Maccas. And no one knows what to expect, you know. And I don't know, like there's the good side of things, and you know, the the kids, they're vibrant kids, they're amazing. Like, I really enjoy their company. Even last night at the cricket, they're just fun, they're just better than all the kids around. I'm looking at everyone else's kids, going, your kids are horrible compared to mine. I've won the kid jackpot. But for Jess, like it's so it's exciting and you know, it's captivating, and you know, God's used us to do some cool stuff in ministry together, and our gifts are really complimentary. You know, she's a brilliant organizer, she's a great Bible teacher, she's a prophetic person who hears from God, so she can, you know, really lead anointedly, and she's an amazing woman. So by God's grace, we've been a good complimentary team. I think the the hard thing for Jess is that, you know, and I think this is probably for a lot of people, is that they do value stability and they value like Jess values stability, she values consistency, she really values the ministry we have at our church and longevity there. And so when I'm in a manic place and I'm pitching all these ideas and it just puts a sense of instability in her. And I I'm sorry for that. I actually am really sorry for that. And I I don't want to and I want to get better at um not doing that to her, but at the same time, she's a solid woman of God, so she can handle it and she can handle me. I'm praying that I get better with that, the instability. Um, but at the same time, like I said, it's it's exciting as well, it's fun. Um, when I'm low, it's not fun for Jess. In that dark time when I was under my man robe, she really had to step up and carry a lot of the slack around the house, around the church, and you know, with that, she didn't do it begrudgingly. Not once did she ever say anything to make me feel condemned or guilty. She's a she was gracious, you know. She was really my pastor during those years. And it's interesting, as a pastor, you don't often have a pastor, right? You don't have you know, I got good friends and mentors, but someone who can really dissect your soul and come in and pray for you. And so she really functioned in that role, and I'm really thankful for her. I think for the kids, having bipolar, I guess they've always grown up with me being me. So for them, it's how dad is. Yes, you know, and so I I suspect that their testimony when they're older, you always get scared of the kids' testimony. I um I think their testimony will be that God used dad, um, and dad loved us, dad was generous with us. Like, oh man, it doesn't take much for me to open my wallet to the kids. Like, and I don't know if that's gonna come back to bite me when they've got a bad value of money or whatever, but like I'm generous with them and I love them, and I want to hang out with them, and I like them, and you know, like even you know, my wife and and daughter went on a road trip a couple of weeks ago, and so it was just me and my son. So we just spent a week on a reverse vegan diet. Basically, all we ate was animal products, you know, meat and cheese and eggs and bacon. And then it was like in the morning we'd get up, have a man hug, have a chat, grunt at each other a couple of times, like hey, see you at lunch, you know, and do our thing, and you know, and he loved that, you know. We gamed a little bit together and watched uh watch Car Masters and we hung out. So I think their testimony will be that dad was fun, dad loved God, dad was there for us, but he was also a bit erratic. And sometimes he got he yelled at us when we probably didn't deserve it, you know, and sometimes he was irritable. I mean, they both love Jesus for themselves, so that's awesome. But I also think they'll grow up thinking, okay, that dad dad was epic, but he had some flaws, but we love him and we're glad he's in our life. And I think the last sentence is the big one that they're glad I'm in their life, and I want that to be true. I see so many men who just lose that with their kids. You know, that the kids are happy not to be in their life, especially as teenagers. You know, drop me up, drop me off up the street so no one sees our embarrassing car, or just be quiet when we're in public, Dad, or you know, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So the kids are still happy to be seen with you. They are, they yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I love them, hey. And it's really cool. Like, as pastors' kids, we've tried not to put too much pressure on them, like uh to look a certain way or whatever. And and our church is really cool. The the the people at church don't treat them any different than anyone else, they just really enjoy their their time there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And have you brought the kids on the journey? Are you quite open with them about like being medicated, saying things like I'm in a manic or depressive state at the moment, so that they understand how to tiptoe around you a little bit?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, and it's taken a bit of time. So, but that's a very good question because at the start I was, you know, I guess because my uh my process with medication started with the anxiety and depression medication and kind of grew from there. I was able to take them on the journey. And and they naturally they see me, you know, they'll see me at six o'clock taking the sodium volper, they'll see me at dinner time, so they know I'm on I'm medicated, but I have taken them on the journey. But okay, so my son's a legend, but he's 15, and you know that 15-year-olds love to pest. You know it, right? Like you just be sitting there and all of a sudden there's a bucket on your head.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, all of a sudden or a finger in your ear.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, or a finger in your ear, or like you have a drink and they'll put a cucumber in it. Like 15. So, you know, and and and Josiah, he's the master of it. Like he is, he's next level. And I think he probably got that from his mother. I love pesting people too. But when I'm real manic, I have to sometimes just say to the kids, look, guys, I can't handle you poking me, pushing me, you know, just give me a bit of bit of a wide berth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But at least you're saying that to them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and they're cool with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's communication, though. It's just like with anything, you know. Like I know that with my husband, if I'm having a low day, sometimes I'll just be like, I'm just having a low day. And that's what I need to say. He knows that means that I'm not upset with him. If I was, I would say something, and I may not even be able to pick, put my finger on why I'm having a low day. He just has a mutual understanding. That's right. But it you have to communicate that because otherwise you overreact and then you're hurting your family or your partner or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:That's it. You did actually tell me a story the other day, Amelia, that you walked past and he gave you a little bit of a playful butt slap.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, that's right. I overreacted.
SPEAKER_01:He got a little bit in trouble for that, didn't he?
SPEAKER_00:Because I was in a bad headspace and I haven't told him yet. Yeah, that's all right. But that's it, eh?
SPEAKER_01:And like you just said, communication, if we communicate this stuff, the people we love who understand get it. Yeah. This is gonna be my interesting next couple of months, I think, Amelia, is that the church doesn't quite understand the extent of this. And so what I've been able to communicate with the family, I have to now start communicating with my faith community. Now think about this as a manic pastor. Okay, imagine this for a morning. Okay, you get there at 7:30 to set up and a bunch of people are late. Right, imagine this, okay? And you're like, far out, we're gonna be running late. And then you you you walk into the church and there's like cups left everywhere because whoever used the church through the week just left cups and crap everywhere, and so you're like straight away like agitated, you know, because you're heightened, right? Freaking cups are everywhere, you know, and then people come and maybe it goes all right for a little while, and you make a few coffees for people, then the service starts, and I'm up the front and I can hear the worship team playing or whatever, but I can also hear people walking in laughing and talking and standing down the back making heaps of noise and distracting everyone. Maybe they're not distracting everyone, but because I'm manic, I can hear them as if they're yelling in my ear. Okay, and they don't do it to be jerks, they don't do it because they're irreverent. They love Jesus, they don't know they're doing it, and they come in laughing and then, oh well, worship's on. Okay, and they go join in. Okay, now our church, I want it to be fun and casual, so I'm not ever gonna yell out at them and you know, it's not my style. But when I'm manic, it irritates me, right? And then I'll be preaching. And this is the funny thing is when you're manic, you can preach quite well because you've got unreserved energy as long as you're hearing from God and not just saying things, which I have to be quite careful on. I make sure I do my prep, especially when I'm manic, to make sure I'm speaking from God, not from my mania. And there's where Jess's prophetic gift really helps to help sift that and to help keep me in line and to help make sure I'm hearing from God. You know, so I'll be preaching, and I'll, like I said earlier, I'll hear some kid like playing with a toy, and there's a teddy there that makes no noise, but they pick up the fire engine, start, you know, and then like the parent, I'll see the parent not look over at the kid, and they're just sitting there chilling. I'm like, you want to go grab that kid or just let it distract the whole world? You know, and then that's what I'll be thinking while I'm still preaching. Yeah, and then I'll see someone go out to the dunny, and this is how weird's this gonna sound, but I'll know whether it's a number one or two because in my head, there's so much going on that I've almost timed how long they were in there and they're coming back. I'm like, hey, he did a poo. You know what I mean? Like and then like it's just I mean, you've got to and then like someone will nod off. All right, or you look at someone's face and you think they're just not into this at all. And that's always a problem because when you're preaching, it's everybody's face looks different to what they're feeling, usually. Like I I used to have a senior pastor who looked angry when you were preaching well, but it was because he was listening really well. Yeah, you're like, oh dude, he's hating this, you know, and so so this is and then straight after church, noise! Like that first 20 minutes after church, noise, you know, everyone's in a small room talking loud, laughing, which is amazing unless you're manic. Right? And so that'll happen, and then I'll have someone come up to me and talk to me, which is wonderful. I want to talk to people, but it'll be like, and then while they're talking, someone else comes and stands next to them waiting for me, yeah, and I can see them out of my peripheral vision. So I'm like, not only am I getting spoken to here, I've got this person to talk to, and it'll happen maybe three or four times in a run, and nobody's doing it because they want to hurt me, they're just doing it because they love me. And I love them and we're connected. But I sometimes just want to get out of there. You know, there's been times where I'm manic where I just like finish the service and then go out this sneaky door and get in my car and go home. No one notices, and if I told them why I was doing it, I'm sure they'd be fine with it. I think I'm just at that place where I've been living it. Now I have to be living it and sharing it.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And and explain people why I'm acting like I am. There'll be times where I'm in a prayer meeting where I'll just have to step outside instead of just pushing through now, I'll just step outside and come back, have a breath. And I would expect that anyone else in my position, I would give them the concessions to do that.
SPEAKER_00:100%. So they'll do that for me. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you ask me why I haven't shared yet. The third reason was that I, you know, I haven't probably given people enough credit. I've got to start giving people more credit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because I think you'll be surprised at how people react. And it could and it's even just thinking of different strategies. So for example, of going, okay, well, after church, Dave always goes and sits in the little back room by himself, and one person goes in and the next person waits at the door, and then you do a swap over. Well, yeah, yeah, that's right. Like just managing it. That's a silly example, but you know, like just managing it so that you can give as much as you know, and hear from God as well. Because when you're speaking to someone in a church environment like that, they may be asking you like a really deep personal question, and you're just trying to trying to focus on them without all the mess in the background. Like how are you meant to hear from God when your mind is so wild by that? That's right, you know. So yeah, so it's actually setting up strategies to be able to enable you to do what you need to do.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And okay, so say someone came with a wheelchair, rolled into church, and we didn't uh move a couple of chairs so they could roll into a into the congregation. Like, we'd be like, guys, you guys are being jerks. Yes. Help them out. It's exactly the same principle, except you can't see it. And I think that's where we where there's some deficits, I think, in in the way we we think about this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what's going to be your strategy then?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the question. Hopefully you got the answer. You got the answer?
SPEAKER_00:Just be like, oh hey, by the way, uh, got this podcast. Here you go. Listen to it during the way. That's it, full stop.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. Um, look, the strategy is to to really start normalizing everything in my life and sharing it. Yeah. Getting guests on. I want to hear from people who are have lived experience, like yourself and others. I want to I want to interview professionals, I want to talk to people who understand mental health, who are pastors, who are even theologians or psychiatrists or whoever I can get to have the conversation about faith and spirituality. You know, faith like knowing Jesus is the best. Like knowing him, knowing him intimately and having a personal relationship with him, and it not being about what you do or don't do, but about who you are in Christ. And I want people to understand that they can know Christ, that they can have intimacy with him, and also have things going on upstairs that aren't ideal, and that God isn't punishing them, and that he it's not a result of their, you know, sin or his and I just yeah, I'd love to dispel some myths, I'd love to be an encouragement to people, I'd like to have fun. I know that sounds strange, but sometimes like whenever you talk about mental health and mental illness, it's like everyone just like puckers up. It's like, you know, there's no room for jovialness. And now, look, I'm not saying this because I want to minimize the importance of chatting about mental illness, but sometimes the only way I can handle my life is to laugh about it and to be irreverent and to point out the stupidity and the fallacy and the craziness of it all. You know, and so I want to open that for them. Um, I want to be able to chat to people who are real and raw and and and amazing and crazy and messed up and brilliant.
SPEAKER_00:Because we all are real.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly right. That's right. See, like mental health doesn't just affect people with mental illness, it affects almost the whole population because we all know somebody who's struggling. Most of us, if we're honest, are struggling mentally somehow. Whether it be stressful.
SPEAKER_00:Well, they're not going to be able to have at some stage in their life.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly it, or burnout, or stress, or whatever. We're so overworked, we're like completely consumed with information and bombarded, like it's not good for us. We take no time to rest. Like it's not a healthy way to live. And so if we can do anything to facilitate discussion around making life better, like just better, better for people who are struggling, you know, helping people, actually doing something with our faith, then I then I'm all in on that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, 100%. And that's what God wants for us. I think so. You know, He wants you to find that peace, but also be true to who you are and like you said, how He made you. There's no one really talking about that sort of balance between spirituality and mental health.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think there is. I've done so much research over the last few months in getting ready for this. The mania paid off. Right? So I was able to get through a lot of content very quickly, but there's a few guys in the States, and there's a few guys down in Sydney and Melbourne, and there's there are people, but not I don't think it's to the scale that it needs to be. You know, people are writing articles, people are doing seminars, and there's some great people around, but I'd love to push this into the forefront of the church. And I know that's audacious, um, but we I I will I'll rattle and knock on every door to try to get this in into people's hands, hey.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And even as a resource just for other pastors, if someone in their congregation is struggling with this to, you know, facilitate them through the service so they can actually be there on a Sunday and enjoy it as well. Well, that's it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, imagine this. Imagine if a church understood that if a certain person gets triggered during the service and they stand up down the back and stretch, that that's okay. Like it's so rigid, right? Like or if they have to lay down on the ground, or if they have to like I don't know, dance around or put a blanket over their head, whatever. Yeah. You know? Like I yeah, I don't know. I just think there's so many more people who would enjoy faith community if people understood it people outside the box.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the secret geniuses, I reckon. Sometimes bipolar is a superpower. I mean, sometimes it's a crippling meaning. Then other times I'm like, okay, it's paid off. So and and and I I just think there's a lot of people with mental illness who have got gifts that aren't being used.
SPEAKER_00:And even what that means for spiritual gifts along with mental health and how what that's a whole oh I can't wait to chat about that.
SPEAKER_01:I cannot wait to chat about that. And how like all the personality assessments like the Enneagram and all those sort of things, how they fit with you know, mental illness and faith. And there's so many topics I want to cover. I'd love to cover I've got a friend who's a music therapist, and I want to interview her and talk about almost like you know, with King Saul when he was tormented and he was throwing spears at people and he was enraged and he was angry and music calmed him down. Like what you know, we've got to explore things like that. What's the role of music in mental health and spirituality and all facets? I want to get some fit people on here. Now that's not gonna be my fortage because I am lazy, but you know, I want to get some athletes on who uh uh understand this stuff and talk about the biological, you know, benefits of exercise and diet, and so many areas need to be explored.
SPEAKER_00:And that's just gonna help you on your journey as well. Yeah, it is, you know, it's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I haven't felt this excited for a very long time. It's good. You can see it in your eyes, you're sparkling. I love it, I love it. I do. I I I was super encouraged when I first put it out uh that this was starting, and I don't quite know how it's gonna morph, but I was super encouraged with the amount of texts and feedback I got from people saying, I'm in, like this is something I've been praying for. I need something like this. Let me know if I can help, let me know if I can participate, please. Um, you know, so I just want to thank people in advance who get behind this. I think this is an initiative that I think will help people. At the moment, I'm quite blessed. I got, you know, I work three and a half days a week, three days at church, and half a day in another role. Gives me another day to put into this. So I'm just gonna volunteer my day a week and just see what God does with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good on you. It's it's taken some balls.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you. No, I appreciate it. It's taken me 43 years to grow them. So no, but it's time.
SPEAKER_00:It is time, so yeah, but it's and there's nothing to hide. There's nothing to hide. And I think part of the beauty of it is really stepping up and being like, well, okay, what am I hiding from?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing and be confident.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm medicated, I've got the Lord behind me. What can go wrong?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's exactly it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So let's see if I'm still here in a year, Amelia.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for the chat.
SPEAKER_00:You were most welcome. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to, well, one, to be on that journey with you and have you share your story with me even before this, but to facilitate this for you so that you can get your message out there is awesome, and it's an honour to be your interviewer.
SPEAKER_01:Love ya, thank you so much. For more candid conversations on faith and mental well-being, check out sunburntsouls.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak. Sunburnt Souls is a faith-based ministry, and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it. Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give, you're better off shouting a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Quack from Sunburnt Souls.