00;00;01;09 - 00;00;27;22
Dave Quak
Welcome to Sunburnt Souls. I'm Dave Quak and on this show we explore life and faith and our mental well-being as a pastor that struggles with mental illness. I get to chat to people like me, people that love Jesus and follow the way of Christ while dealing with the messiness and brokenness of lives. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode.
00;00;27;25 - 00;00;43;29
Dave Quak
Well, some bad souls. You guys are in for an extra special treat this morning. You have got one of my favorite humans on the entire planet with you this morning. One of the three people I would willingly and happily die for. My beautiful daughter, Milani Quak.
00;00;44;05 - 00;00;45;22
Milani Quak
Hello. So nice to be here.
00;00;45;22 - 00;00;49;16
Dave Quak
Oh, it's so nice to have you. Who else is in the room? Lanie?
00;00;49;18 - 00;00;53;21
Milani Quak
Well, our dog starts to make weird noises just now.
00;00;53;24 - 00;00;55;20
Dave Quak
Same thing. He does make some weird noises.
00;00;55;21 - 00;00;56;23
Milani Quak
Yeah, and he snores.
00;00;56;25 - 00;01;05;24
Dave Quak
He does So if he falls asleep, we know we're not being entertaining enough. Lani, why don't you tell everyone a little bit about yourself? How old are you? Where do you go to school? That sort of thing.
00;01;05;29 - 00;01;13;10
Milani Quak
I'm 13 years old. I go to King's Christian College. Dave and Jess, my parents. And I've got a brother named Josiah.
00;01;13;12 - 00;01;15;18
Dave Quak
Well, how long have you known Dave and Jess?
00;01;15;21 - 00;01;19;01
Milani Quak
Oh, I gotta say, since I was born.
00;01;19;03 - 00;01;20;26
Dave Quak
So you say you pretty close to Dave, then?
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Milani Quak
Yeah, I'm pretty close.
00;01;22;05 - 00;01;25;07
Dave Quak
Okay. What about your hobbies? What are you into?
00;01;25;09 - 00;01;29;12
Milani Quak
I like reading, swimming, snorkeling, playing with the dog.
00;01;29;16 - 00;01;35;26
Dave Quak
Yeah. Cool. You're a good kid, too. Like you're only 13. You're very articulate. How many books did you read this year?
00;01;35;29 - 00;01;39;28
Milani Quak
Oh, well, last year I read about 150.
00;01;40;00 - 00;01;44;15
Dave Quak
And you were also doing that to raise money? How did you raise money with that?
00;01;44;18 - 00;01;47;23
Milani Quak
Oh, I just got to pay me every dollar for every book I read. Yeah.
00;01;47;23 - 00;01;49;05
Dave Quak
And what did you do with your money?
00;01;49;07 - 00;01;51;17
Milani Quak
Oh, I donated it to Samaritan's Purse.
00;01;51;22 - 00;02;01;07
Dave Quak
Yeah, and, Lonnie, that's what I love about you, honey. One of the many things is that you are very generous. That you hustle all year to get money. The giveaway thing. Didn't you give away about a grand last year?
00;02;01;09 - 00;02;02;24
Milani Quak
$1,100? Yeah.
00;02;02;24 - 00;02;07;16
Dave Quak
That's awesome. And he built some wells and not not wells. Was it filters?
00;02;07;18 - 00;02;10;21
Milani Quak
I got some filters. Chickens, honeybees.
00;02;10;28 - 00;02;18;12
Dave Quak
Yeah. Awesome. Now you live with a dad who has some mental health issues, is that correct?
00;02;18;19 - 00;02;19;14
Milani Quak
Yes it is.
00;02;19;20 - 00;02;27;06
Dave Quak
It's early in the morning. I had a couple of coffees. Feeling pretty happy. Why don't we start with the good things? Like what is good about having me as a dad?
00;02;27;08 - 00;02;47;25
Milani Quak
The good thing about having you as a dad is that you always come up with, like, crazy adventures and fun things for us to do. And when you're in the 70% stage or so of your manic faith, it's pretty fun because that you're coming up with the good things. You got so much energy and you're willing to do it with us, like whenever you want.
00;02;47;25 - 00;02;50;18
Milani Quak
But you're also happy just to spend time or just to relax.
00;02;50;19 - 00;02;58;09
Dave Quak
Yeah, and you're my little, like, sidekick with a lot of stuff like you and I get to go to. We like food. Yeah, we go and get food a lot and maybe.
00;02;58;09 - 00;02;58;20
Milani Quak
A little too.
00;02;58;20 - 00;03;04;06
Dave Quak
Much maybe. And we like adventures. Where are we planning to go when you're 16?
00;03;04;09 - 00;03;11;19
Milani Quak
We are planning to go to, like, Ecuador and Brazil and go on the whole thing. Because I'm trying to learn Spanish.
00;03;11;21 - 00;03;25;03
Dave Quak
Yeah. So you're learning Spanish? Ecuador, Colombia, all of that sort of area? Yeah. The Spanish isn't going to help you in Brazil because I speak Portuguese, but that's okay. What isn't fun about having a dad with mental illness?
00;03;25;05 - 00;03;48;24
Milani Quak
Well, when you get higher than many like the 70%, it just starts to get really intense and a lot. And you sort of start to think that, like, everyone's against you and you just want to lash out or go crazy and you say you want to like, go to a different country and start a new life there sometimes.
00;03;48;24 - 00;03;49;02
Milani Quak
And.
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Dave Quak
Yeah. And is that hard?
00;03;50;23 - 00;03;54;27
Milani Quak
Yeah, it's pretty hard because I like my life here. That's where we could be.
00;03;54;29 - 00;04;01;05
Dave Quak
Yeah. And so does it make you feel like life is unstable or unsafe or what's it feel like?
00;04;01;06 - 00;04;29;11
Milani Quak
Well, it does feel a bit unstable because it feels like you're ready to just drop everything and travel around Australia for a year, or drop everything, go to Thailand and retire there. Or just something super random and it gets quite intense and it's like, you don't know what's gonna happen next. Like, I didn't even it's great, but I didn't even know we were going to get a dog.
00;04;29;11 - 00;04;43;04
Milani Quak
And then all of a sudden we just had one. Yeah. So yeah, it some of it's good, but sometimes it can just be like, you need a bit of time just to back off and calm down and. Yeah. Yeah.
00;04;43;06 - 00;04;57;23
Dave Quak
Is that hard for you? Because I'm your dad and have sort of like a leadership role within the house. So I kind of like, come up with these ideas. Is it hard for you to know whether or not to push back against it, or how to handle it?
00;04;57;26 - 00;05;19;14
Milani Quak
Well, when you get those ideas, it's sort of hard to tell, you know, because you won't hear no for an answer. You just think that we are always against you or something, and that can get quite hard when we're trying to support you and you're thinking that we're trying to fight you. You like when you also say we all have an equal part to talk.
00;05;19;14 - 00;05;29;08
Milani Quak
It can be quite difficult to be able to find the balance of which time you in or how to best approach you about.
00;05;29;11 - 00;05;42;18
Dave Quak
Yeah that would be hard to say. Like not meetings happening but like do you and Mom and Josiah sometimes have to like have little chats with each other to be like, okay, dads in a place like this, just this is how we handle him. Do you guys have to do that?
00;05;42;21 - 00;05;55;17
Milani Quak
Yeah, we do that sometimes or sometimes. Just talk with mum and yeah, we just figure it out and, you know, just sometimes when we got space, just relax with each other because we both can be quite chill.
00;05;55;23 - 00;05;56;21
Dave Quak
Yeah.
00;05;56;23 - 00;06;21;15
Milani Quak
And also when you're in the lower stage in the depressed. Yeah. You get, you want to travel away to Thailand but not for another adventure but to get away from your problems. Yeah. You can't really talk to you. There's like a giant gray cloud over you and it's really hard to like when you're excited and you want to talk to you.
00;06;21;15 - 00;06;37;09
Milani Quak
It's very hard to be able to just come up like normal. Because you're like always like asleep or need your own space or. Yeah. It's quite hard.
00;06;37;11 - 00;06;42;20
Dave Quak
Yeah. What's harder. The manic or the depressed or the equally as.
00;06;42;22 - 00;07;06;01
Milani Quak
Manic is harder because when you're depressed you can just bear it easier to leave you alone. But when you're manic it can get quite dark and like, yeah, you don't really know how to approach you. And you know that the higher it is and more intensities, the lower the depression is going to be.
00;07;06;03 - 00;07;06;23
Dave Quak
Yeah.
00;07;06;25 - 00;07;08;28
Milani Quak
And it's quite difficult.
00;07;09;01 - 00;07;15;19
Dave Quak
Because you've already picked that up at 13, that the longer I'm manic and the worse it is, the worse the depressive stages go. Hey, well.
00;07;15;19 - 00;07;18;04
Milani Quak
You told me, sir, I listen.
00;07;18;07 - 00;07;24;02
Dave Quak
You do listen. And I think you have been a very valuable and lovely sidekick for me. Lonnie.
00;07;24;05 - 00;07;24;24
Milani Quak
Thanks.
00;07;24;24 - 00;07;37;01
Dave Quak
You really have, like you, sometimes, the one person who I feel like I can just lay on the couch next to and watch a movie and be like, I don't need to perform or say certain things. Like, I know you love me for who I am.
00;07;37;03 - 00;08;01;19
Milani Quak
Yeah. And I've had a lot of experience with that. A lot of my friends have depression or anxiety or something going on with them. So. So just part of my life now I've been blessed by God and don't have any proposed by like that, but I think I have a calling to help those in need because I've been so fortunate with that.
00;08;01;21 - 00;08;10;08
Dave Quak
Yeah, it's a sad truth that you have so many friends already. You know, you're 13 years old and a lot of them are carrying significant mental health issues.
00;08;10;13 - 00;08;11;11
Milani Quak
Yeah.
00;08;11;14 - 00;08;21;27
Dave Quak
I know when we first started this podcast, one thing you were excited about was trying to equip people who are the helpers. What's it like to be a helper or to be in someone's life and not know what to do?
00;08;21;29 - 00;08;48;28
Milani Quak
Well, I have a few friends. I'm not going to name any names, but they get panic attacks and they get down. They start crying. You can't talk to them. You can't penetrate their mind. You just have to stand there while someone close to you is just breaking down, crying, shaking and not able to move. And it's really hard.
00;08;48;28 - 00;09;11;21
Milani Quak
You feel so useless and helpless and you don't know what to do because what you could say could either make it worse, keep it the same, or make it slightly better. Yeah, but no matter what, it's just really hard. And I always feel like I'm doing it wrong because each person with their experience, when they have a panic attack or whatever, it's different.
00;09;11;21 - 00;09;41;06
Milani Quak
And each time they have one, it's slightly different, slightly worse, slightly better, maybe. But they can't. They don't they can't talk back to you and they can't understand what you're saying unless you speak very slowly, very simply, you have to not panic in words. Really hard to try and be able to calm yourself and sort of hard to not feel guilty.
00;09;41;08 - 00;10;03;06
Milani Quak
It's not my fault or anything that I feel guilty that I don't experience this, but they do. Even though I know that's ridiculous. It's just really hard to be able to try and get through knowing that every day when you wake up, no matter how hard your day is, there every day is ten times worse. Yeah.
00;10;03;08 - 00;10;06;02
Dave Quak
That's a lot of pressure for a 13 year old.
00;10;06;05 - 00;10;30;21
Milani Quak
I don't mind it, but like sometimes it gets a bit much. But I've got people around me like mum, you've got the bipolar, but I can still talk to you about it. Yeah, I can just pray to God and he gives me incredible peace and just makes me feel a bit more prepared. And every day I am just looking for ways to help them.
00;10;30;21 - 00;10;52;29
Milani Quak
And one day I want to find a source that's for the helpers so they can know how to best help their friends know what they're going through. If it's depression, anxiety, eating disorder, whatever it may be, so that they can help them and just help them feel safer and just more normal. And I'm not alone.
00;10;53;01 - 00;11;07;05
Dave Quak
I think that's an amazing heart. Like we do need more resources, especially with young guys with the ability to do this. Yeah. You mentioned you have a healthy relationship with God when it comes to this stuff. Tell us about that.
00;11;07;07 - 00;11;37;10
Milani Quak
Well, I've grown up with my parents both being pastors, so I've just been a Christian my whole life. And when I was like five or so, I just started that I wanted him to be my God no matter what. I just remember thinking that no matter what, I would always believe in him. I would always bring my Bible or whatever, and I would like, never have to be without him.
00;11;37;15 - 00;11;59;04
Milani Quak
And he's always with us. And even though I do get through a lot of spiritual attacks and I sometimes can't sleep because I've got some problems going on with my stomach and stuff, but no matter what. I know that he's with me, and no matter how hard any season of my life is, I know that it will get better.
00;11;59;06 - 00;12;02;27
Milani Quak
I can get through it with him and it'll just help me in the future. Yeah.
00;12;03;00 - 00;12;27;17
Dave Quak
And that's true. Like you've never really needed me. And just to disciple you like you've really drawn near to God yourself from a young age. I still remember when you were five, you used to do devotions and you know, do so, you know, scripture observation, application, prayer, and you journaled and you had your kids Bibles and stuff. You've been really easy to disciple because I think Jesus is really just on it directly.
00;12;27;22 - 00;12;50;05
Milani Quak
I feel really yeah, I feel really blessed that I've just always found it easy to be able to connect with him. Yeah. Now with him. I remember talking to mum once and I was like, I don't have any special story to tell about how I became a Christian because I was hearing all these stories, like people going through these crazy phases, and then they just felt God.
00;12;50;05 - 00;13;03;03
Milani Quak
But I've always just had him and my mum told me, I'll never forget this. She said, you have the best story at all. He's been with you your whole life and you've known it your whole life.
00;13;03;06 - 00;13;20;19
Dave Quak
Yeah. And as is the best storyline. You know, the times in the wilderness that some of us go through are so painful, you know, coming back. Yeah. It's great to get the restoration badges. You've got some stuff to get healed from and all the other things. And it doesn't make your life perfect obviously, because we're talking about this now.
00;13;20;21 - 00;13;51;24
Milani Quak
We've all got problems. It's just, yeah, they can be really different. Like, I sometimes just can't sleep at night. So something happened to me and I get crazy things happen to me. But I know like other people struggle with mental illnesses or whatever, and you can't really measure them up against each other because everyone, even if you can't see it, is going through a pain equal to yours, just in a different way.
00;13;52;00 - 00;13;55;05
Dave Quak
That's right. We've all got equal brokenness. Different brokenness.
00;13;55;07 - 00;13;56;13
Milani Quak
Yeah.
00;13;56;16 - 00;14;11;06
Dave Quak
Did you feel okay because you don't look directly with mental illness when you're taking care of your friends or me or other people? Does it sort of foster anxiety in your life or not?
00;14;11;08 - 00;14;19;22
Milani Quak
It does make me anxious, I feel. Are they just so painful that I can't help them?
00;14;19;23 - 00;14;20;02
Dave Quak
Yeah.
00;14;20;09 - 00;14;46;13
Milani Quak
I can't be there for them. And I'm a helper by nature, so it's really hard just seeing my friend struggle, knowing there's nothing I can do. I'm doing the best I can, but only God can heal them. Yeah, medicine, God and just time will help get them through what they're going through. But it's really hard. And it makes me also think that maybe in the future I'll get it.
00;14;46;16 - 00;15;05;02
Milani Quak
And so many of my friends, two of my closest friends, both have depression and anxiety. Yeah, it makes me think, am I next? Am I going to have this growing depression and anxiety in my teenage years?
00;15;05;04 - 00;15;25;06
Dave Quak
Which I'm praying won't happen. And that's why it's good to be having these conversations. Now before you get to that age. Because you know we can put practices and stuff in place to fend that off. It breaks my heart that, you know, there's so many young crew dealing with this kind of thing. Do you have other friends, do you think that are also wanting to help but don't have the tools?
00;15;25;08 - 00;15;49;05
Milani Quak
Yeah, I'm not the only friend they can lean on, but I just know that everyone is trying to help them, but they just don't know how and that can and can see it in other people's eyes as well. It makes them just feel so helpless, not know what to do. It can mean awkward. I know when my friends first started getting panic attacks, I'd freak out and be like, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay.
00;15;49;05 - 00;15;50;17
Milani Quak
And then like, stop doing that, please.
00;15;50;17 - 00;15;51;06
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;15;51;09 - 00;16;00;03
Milani Quak
And breaking down. And it's just really hard to for everyone and anyone to try and find the right way unless you've been trained in it.
00;16;00;05 - 00;16;00;18
Dave Quak
00;16;00;21 - 00;16;09;26
Milani Quak
Which is why I believe that we do need more open resources for everybody to understand what they're going through and how best they can help.
00;16;09;28 - 00;16;31;14
Dave Quak
I think you're on to something. We need to develop a resource or fund a resource designed for people in your demographic to help to help them. It's a good side note. So, Lani, I as I'm doing this interview, I'm really struggling not to have dad hat on as well as like podcast dad head on. Yeah. You go, what would you like to chit chat about?
00;16;31;17 - 00;17;04;19
Milani Quak
Well, I would just like to know. Oh, you're bipolar, obviously. But what is it like for you when you're manic and in the lowest part, what best can help get you through it? And do you know, because you've been a pastor for years and you've been doing this podcast, how people with anxiety and depression and eating disorders and everything else, how they can be best talked to and bought through this.
00;17;04;20 - 00;17;27;17
Dave Quak
Yeah, it's a good question. I think I'm sort of just scratching the surface like, I think this is maybe a new direction. God's taking me in for the next season, but I think the big thing is realizing that, like people with mental illness are still completely loved by God and that there is a way to be fully a disciple of Christ and fully broken.
00;17;27;19 - 00;17;59;14
Milani Quak
Yeah, it's really hard and it's just people get so freaked out or disturbed when it happens that they can sometimes just forget the they're just like us, but they have more visible, different struggles. And even though they are going through this awful thing, we still they're just the same as I've always been. But with this added layer on top of them and every single struggle is different.
00;17;59;14 - 00;18;03;00
Milani Quak
Even in the mental illness area.
00;18;03;03 - 00;18;19;25
Dave Quak
Yeah, and I think you're right. Like the thing about mental illness is because it's unseen while the behavior is not unseen, but the internal turmoils unseen. I think the, you know, it's just less obvious. So people don't know how to handle it, you know, like, you know, I know the students at King's at your school that have got wheelchairs.
00;18;19;25 - 00;18;36;06
Dave Quak
And so because of that, they've got ramps and because of that they've got access and they make provisions. Right. But it's harder to make provisions. And I think your school does a great job, but it's harder to make provisions for people with mental ill health than it is for physical ill health, because you just can't see it.
00;18;36;08 - 00;18;47;26
Milani Quak
Yeah. It is really difficult, but. Well, how about for you, what are the best provisions for being bipolar?
00;18;47;29 - 00;19;08;02
Dave Quak
I think when I'm really, really manic what I need anyone to kind of like talk me down in the sense of shut down my ideas or whatever, but more just, if it's hard for you and, and I'm sorry, but but just to let the waves pass. Because eventually I stop wanting to move to Thailand and eventually I stop.
00;19;08;02 - 00;19;28;22
Dave Quak
Want to do this and that, right? And so, like, in the worst manic phases, it's about letting it pass. And then in the depressive phases, it's really about still showing me love, but knowing that I'm probably not going to be much fun. And I know that sucks for you guys. And I'm really sorry. You know, I would flick a switch if I could.
00;19;28;24 - 00;19;31;02
Dave Quak
Like, I would love to see this better.
00;19;31;05 - 00;19;41;21
Milani Quak
I guess that's the problem with all problems. It takes time. Some might never fully heal, but yeah, I just have to learn how to live with that.
00;19;41;24 - 00;20;01;07
Dave Quak
And that's what I'm really coming to like, terms with. Like, I still believe in healing and I'd love to be set free, but all indications at the moment is that this is like a deterioration of my mental health, like it's getting worse slowly. And so I just to I'll go to like fight against it as best I can and there's things I could do better.
00;20;01;09 - 00;20;06;19
Dave Quak
Like I've openly admitted I'm hopeless at exercise. I don't do it and I really should.
00;20;06;21 - 00;20;07;16
Milani Quak
To.
00;20;07;18 - 00;20;26;16
Dave Quak
Man like, we don't go but like, you know, so there's things I could do that help. But I think, yeah, I, I just need to be loved. And I think that's the case for any one with mental illness as well as I just need to be loved, like when we're doing stuff that's annoying or hurtful or whatever. It's actually not coming from an evil place.
00;20;26;16 - 00;20;28;21
Dave Quak
It's coming from a broken place.
00;20;28;24 - 00;20;44;02
Milani Quak
Yeah, it's really hard. And there are like so many variables and differences that each person is individual and beautiful and broken in their own way, and we just have to love them. How Jesus would.
00;20;44;04 - 00;20;49;05
Dave Quak
Yeah. What would be your best desired outcome for me and your friends?
00;20;49;08 - 00;21;25;21
Milani Quak
My best desired outcome would be for you to have just a beautiful overcoming of God's present. And just slowly feel my friends, all the anxiety and depression, just they hide away and drained from them, from the head, the shoulders to the toes. Just let get out of them and let them just feel God's presence. Just know that he is with them and that he will always be with them, no matter what the situation may be.
00;21;25;23 - 00;22;00;25
Milani Quak
For them to just know it, and to have grown from that, and to be able to help those like that, and to be fully be able to fulfill God's calling within him and for you, for your bipolar to be gone. But we'll to learn from that and have that experience as a knowledge, not a pain. Yeah. Oh, something you have to forget, but it's something you can use to help equip yourself to help others, to continue this podcast, to help other people grow and learn and thrive.
00;22;00;28 - 00;22;03;21
Dave Quak
It's a really good desire. I pray your prayer comes true.
00;22;03;21 - 00;22;04;15
Milani Quak
Yeah.
00;22;04;18 - 00;22;07;17
Dave Quak
Lonnie, I appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability.
00;22;07;19 - 00;22;08;14
Milani Quak
00;22;08;16 - 00;22;17;23
Dave Quak
Do you have any, encouraging words for any of the kids that have parents who struggle with mental ill health?
00;22;17;25 - 00;22;40;07
Milani Quak
It might be hard sometimes, but parents still love you and, well, I don't know exactly what your situation is, but they care for you. They they're just struggling. They're not perfect and they know they can be better, but they just they need your help. Love and support doesn't matter what age you are, but you can always help them.
00;22;40;09 - 00;22;57;20
Dave Quak
And Melanie Quek, you have been a great help to me. I know I wouldn't have gotten to where I was without you. Thank you. So thank you for your love and your care. Would you? As we start winding down this podcast, we always ask our guests to pray for our listeners. Could you please do us that favor tonight?
00;22;57;23 - 00;23;30;26
Milani Quak
Lord, I pray that every person who hears this, it touches their hearts that they feel you. And something this episode just stands out to them and that they can take this with them and they can go knowing that you are with them, and that if they have any mental disorders or any struggles, you are with them. Go ahead and the way they.
00;23;30;28 - 00;23;54;09
Dave Quak
For more candid conversations on faith and mental wellbeing, check out some videos.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider, or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak something. That souls is a faith based ministry and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it.
00;23;54;11 - 00;24;04;05
Dave Quak
Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give you better off sharing a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Clark from Somewhere Souls.