The value of adaptability in creative entrepreneurship - Alex Suchet

"When you give somebody freedom to roam, you never know what creativity you'll unlock. That freedom brings happiness and retains relationships." - Alex Suchet

In this episode, Radim Malinic interviews Alex Suchet, founder and CEO of Mystery Box, a digital production company. Alex shares his journey from TV production runner to agency owner, discussing how having successful family members inspired rather than pressured him. 

He introduces the "Red Car Theory" of opportunity - the idea that when we focus too narrowly on specific goals, we miss opportunities around us. Alex emphasizes the importance of freedom in creative work and building businesses, explaining how Mystery Box has thrived by being adaptable rather than rigid in its approach. 

He also discusses the challenges of imposter syndrome as an agency founder who wasn't previously a designer or developer himself, and how financial success provided validation but not happiness. Throughout the conversation, Alex highlights the value of authentic relationships with clients and team members, comparing business relationships to friendships that should develop organically rather than through aggressive marketing or social media.

Key Takeaways

• Being exposed to successful people can either inspire you or create unhealthy pressure - Alex chose inspiration.
• The "Red Car Theory": If you only look for red things, you'll miss blue opportunities around you.
• Freedom leads to retention - in business, relationships, and creative teams.
• Financial success can provide validation but doesn't necessarily create happiness.
• The best client relationships come organically through quality work, not aggressive marketing.
• Creative businesses need flexibility to evolve with changing markets and technologies.
• Building a team requires different perspectives and skills - "a team full of Alex Suchets" wouldn't work.
• Success comes from being open to where opportunities take you, not rigidly following a predetermined path.
• Remote work models (which Mystery Box adopted in 2011) can be both efficient and fulfilling.
• Authenticity in relationships matters most - whether with clients, team members, or creative partners.

Mindful Creative: How to understand and deal with the highs and lows of creative life, career and business

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Transcript

Alex Suchet: [00:00:00] I found it really inspiring.and it gives you this lovely sense of like,it refuels you into believing. Whereas if you come from a background where people before you didn't achieve things, there's always this, I think, to a greater degree, a sense of doubt and self-doubt, which I think can be really crippling.

And I really believe that what you tell yourself is what you become.I was really fortunate that I had a little voice in me telling me that actually it is possible, and all those dreams and aspirations you have can come true because I was fortunate enough to see the, reality, like the fruits of that for other people close to me.

So I found that really inspiring. 

Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is r Malini and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me in this season. Inspired by my book of the same title, I'm talking to some of the most celebrated figures in a creative industry.

In [00:01:00] our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles. How they'll learn to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career.

So thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life.

You ready?  

Radim Malinic: My guest today is an executive producer, creative technologies and founder of the digital production agency, mystery Books.he and his team partner with the most demanding brands and sectors to establish and enhance their digital presence, to increase brand awareness, drive sales, and improve user engagement.

Aside from his main agency, he is also recognized phase of Samsung and the voice behind Mercedes-Benz and in demand presenter [00:02:00] for many other global brands. In our conversation, we highlight value of authentic relationships with clients and team members.

Comparing business relationships to friendships and how it's possible to develop a business organically rather than through aggressive marketing or social media presence. It's my pleasure to introduce Alex Suge.  

Hey, Alex, how you doing? I'm good, Radden. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to have you on the show because you and I have been on record friends for more than a decade, maybe nearly a couple. And yeah, your journey's been so inspirational that I wanted to share with the wider audience.

But for those who might not know you, which might be most of the listeners of the show, how would you introduce yourself and what you do? 

Alex Suchet: I think you're probably right. I think most people wouldn't. so my name's Alex Che, and I'm the founder and CEO of a digital production company called Mystery Box.

Radim Malinic: [00:03:00] When did creativity come into your life? Because your background, if we can touch on that, is a bit of unconventional to most mortals that we know. Yeah, your story is fascinating and I think if we can touch lightly on, how did you come to where you are today and what influences you had in your earlier life, that'd be great.

Alex Suchet: it's a funny question 'cause I guess like creativity is this all encompassing term and to some degree or another we all are. And I guess for me, I come from a background of, very mixed people who, some of which achieved really great things, whether it was in medicine or in performing arts or.

 in ad agencies too. I was always inspired by what had gone before me, but I guess, I started life as a TV production runner, making tea and driving celebrities to their houses and, collecting the shop and all the rest of it. And, eventually, I hosted some live shopping channels for a while and, I still work as a, voice artist, as like a, passion job,

the creativity has always been there. And I think makes me and my role as the founder of Mystery Box [00:04:00] different is that, I always say that I'm, the conductor of an orchestra, but I don't play. The strings or the woodwind. And whereas most founders are designers themselves or web developers themselves, and so they build a team around what they know and their skillset and grow from there.

Whereas mine was very much that of a producer and, who had more of a bird's eye view on the whole process. I worked at, amazing award-winning production company, unit nine for some time, that's really where I cut my teeth and learned the trade and got a sense of what digital production is and how it can be done really well to produce quality work.

but I saw opportunity to do that differently. 

Radim Malinic: one of your family members once told you a quote about if you wanna do it, well, you might not be eating. And he was referring to acting. 

Alex Suchet: What was the quote? Yeah, I forget.

I told you that. Yeah. He said, listen, just. Do what you love, don't follow money. And if acting's what you love, that's great, go and do that. But just be prepared that you might not afford to buy a house or keep the lights on, but that doesn't matter because you love what you're doing. So just pursue what makes you happy.

'cause that's ultimately what's sustainable. Whereas [00:05:00] chasing money and being miserable 

Radim Malinic: what a quote. did you ever consider, acting? 

Alex Suchet: yes. it was on my radar, but ultimately I think I realized that, especially as a kid, when you're so impressionable, you look at other people's success and think, I'd, I'd like a slice of that and I can probably make a living doing it.

But that was like the first wake up call to realizing that it wouldn't fulfill me and sustain my happiness forever. So therefore, it's probably not the right thing to do. And I'm really grateful to him telling me that because maybe I would've pursued it and been miserable and given up and changed career in my thirties.  

Radim Malinic: was there pressure to do that? because obviously having such a dominant,figure in your family that has managed to actually do what he loves and actually still eat from it. was there pressure to be, somewhere in the media or actor or whatever, that could be, 

Alex Suchet: I think that's the way inspiration goes, right?

It can either crush you or fuel you. And fortunately for me, I, and paid debt to everybody else for this, I found it really inspiring.and it gives you this lovely sense of like,it refuels you into believing. [00:06:00] Whereas if you come from a background where people before you didn't achieve things, there's always this, I think, to a greater degree, a sense of doubt and self-doubt, which I think can be really crippling.

And I really believe that what you tell yourself is what you become.I was really fortunate that I had a little voice in me telling me that actually it is possible, and all those dreams and aspirations you have can come true because I was fortunate enough to see the, reality, like the fruits of that for other people close to me.

So I found that really inspiring. But there's this horrible sense of pressure, right? Where if you fail, it's worse because people might think that you would've had it easier than others, and for you to fail, you must have been particularly bad at what you do.

Whereas if you succeed, they think, of course he was gonna succeed. So that's, I try, I try and ignore those thoughts. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah, I think that when you consider the landscape now, when there's so many nepo babies, in various roles, Some of them are talented, some of them are, they deserve to be where they are and some may be a little bit less.

So   

Alex Suchet: I really feel for those kids. I think if Brooklyn Beckham decided tomorrow to go and be a footballer, he's damned if he does well and if he's [00:07:00] damned, if he fails and I really feel sorry for them, actually, I think it's much harder than being,Ian Wright, who, who didn't come from anybody else who had done that before him.

Radim Malinic: When you think about it, the people criticizing those people are always people who are not doing that job. They're standing on the sidelines basically. They're like the, Sunday morning football dads, shouting from the sidelines. I can do this better. And also, mostly always those comments come from a, a deep place of unhappiness because you say, oh, the system's against me, or this is not fair.

Like this, this person who's following footsteps of someone who's already achieved that sort of grind and that status is passing it on. And when you think about it. There's two sides to every story, two sides to every coin. Like those nippo babies a little bit luckier because as you said,being following someone who's has achieved, status and actually may be inspiring rather than just passing on, an open door.

Alex Suchet: I think you're right you are a really good example of how, you arrived at your own success via an unconventional method. And I think if you look at the people who really achieve anything in this world and whatever it is that they're [00:08:00] doing, they tend to do it their own way.

And I think those that set out from the start to follow a formula, They actually don't quite get to where they're going 'cause they're so focused on what they think their destination is, that they ignore opportunity. And I know you and I have spoken about that before. I feel really strongly about embarking upon your journey.

Yes. With a sense of direction, but equally with the openness to letting the wind take you where it takes you. that's where you, that's I think we've spoken about, I think I called it like opportunity theory, right? The red car idea. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah. because when you think about it, you're like, if you don't have, I.

Those breadcrumbs to follow. You are the one leaving the breadcrumbs for those behind you. Like obviously we always leave a trail of inspiration, body of work, we leave some sort of proof of what we've done that inspires others. And if you're that sort of first person in your family or in your own story doing this, you can't complain that, you are just not as lucky as somebody else.

Because as you just said, thatfollowing someone's success might [00:09:00] be actually a bit of a hindrance because you expect it to be a, some version or some impression or some quality of someone No. Who was here before you. 

Alex Suchet: That's true. some people go about their work quite quietly and so not many people know.

What they do or how they did it. And so it probably inspires fewer people. I'm, I'm also conscious that we talked about Red Car Theory and the listeners might not know what that is. I dunno. maybe it's this really well known thing and I'm just explaining something that everybody knows. 

Radim Malinic: Alright, let's get into that quote because I think that quote is what I call the anatomy of opportunity, because what you described on our pre-call a long time ago is something I didn't actually hear before.

So how would you describe the anatomy of opportunity? 

Alex Suchet: 

I'll keep it short, but is this amazing kind of, analogy for how luck works. so if I ask you to look around the room that you're in now and take note of everything around you that's red. So just look around now and everything that you see that's red and then close your eyes.

Alex Suchet: And now I want you to tell me what you saw that was blue. You are probably completely blind, right? To what those were. And I think this is how luck in quote unquote an [00:10:00] opportunity works that if you set out with this blind ambition for solely this north star that you've decided you're gonna follow, you actually switch off your awareness to other opportunity that might come your way.

And I think that would be the biggest piece. if I could give a nugget of advice to anybody, it's have some direction, but also be open to lady luck. 'cause that little example there is exactly what I think humans call luck. But it isn't, it's spotting opportunity.

Radim Malinic: what you're describing quite eloquently and beautifully I think they call it a selective attention. ' cause I think there was an experiment with theater play. And at one stage, which today they asked the people like, count this number of people in actors or whatever.

And they just, put a person in a gorilla suit just to walk through the set. And they asked the people like, so how many actors did you count? And I might, be having that sort of subject wrong, but the gorillas they totally missed the gorilla 'cause they were focusing on the thing in front of them where they were told to look out for.

Whereas in your story and your [00:11:00] sort of success so far, what I've been, watching your story, watching your journey, you've been looking out for the gorillas, you've been counting sidelines, but you've been looking out for the gorillas, you've been looking out for the blue stuff in the room.

And I think that's, the exciting part.   

Alex Suchet: thank you. But it's honestly not an intentional decision necessarily. I just think, I've never been the best at conforming and so it's just happens I think, and it's really not served me well in, institutions which have a rigid structure where there's an expectation of you like school or whatever, so I would never sit here and say that's the best way to be, but it was just the way I was built.

And fortunately, I think this is what we all need to do for ourselves, right? Is to identify what it is about us what skills do we have and what are the things that we can use about ourselves to make us successful ourselves and be happy. I think my mom always said to me, actually quite young, she said, you only have to be an expert in something.

It can be as niche, you can be the best origami artist in the world. It doesn't matter. You don't have to be a doctor or architect lawyer. Just find what it is that you love doing because it won't be a drag to wake up in the morning and do it, and you'll become an expert at it one day. And experts can [00:12:00] command a lot of money.

And I think, know so many people like yourself some of their parents who don't quite get it, just think they do arts and crafts for a living, and they think, God, my friend Mary's son is an anesthetist and my son does arts and craft.

Meanwhile, as we're all learning now, the tech bros of San Francisco and the agency owners and these guys are making a lot of money and like biggest newsflash, they're really happy and fulfilled and there's lots of salaried slaves with gray faces rising the tube today.

Who are going to their banking job and they're really unhappy. So I think the biggest lesson, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably a creative or interested in the field. I think that's we should all take some solace from that and that's really reassuring to know that actually you can both be happy and be financially secure.

Radim Malinic: When you mention about your mom is an interesting point for this podcast, because I have spoken to lots of people on the show. who would've wanted the advice from your mom, from their parents, and they didn't get it.

So they were the struggling artists, the young artists, the budding artists with the big vision. And their [00:13:00] parents were like, maybe law, maybe architecture, maybe something sensible. There's a reasons because those paras don't want you to fail.

Whereas where you ended up on the other side of creativity, you've being very much inspired to be as creative as you want. be the maestro origami maker. it's fascinating that when you have all the freedom, you actually gravitate towards exactly what you want.

because in your way, I feel like even though your journey and your story is not linear, you can't even going after something which was your total expression. Whereas some people feel like they were, talk out of the, straight line via detour. Of course, we all learn stuff once we do it, but I love that.

I love that your mom was like, 

Alex Suchet: Do it. It's honestly one of the biggest gifts I was given, that I was given the freedom to play in the sandbox of life and to just noodle around and nothing was wrong. I was exposed to lots of different things, which is a real gift.

and I'm very grateful for that. And I also had two very, very different parents. they're both creative in their own right. My dad, As I mentioned earlier, he was managing director of Saatchi in the, like hedonistic, seventies and eighties.

so I got my fair dose of that and my mom [00:14:00] was, this kind supportive, non-judgmental. And again, I think this really feeds into business that if you're a boss or a leader who can nurture and cultivate the talents that you and maybe your team have no idea they have, then you are just watering them, right?

As, plants, they will grow and they'll be a degree of respect and gratitude to you. And, and that's what growing a team is. It's not ramming money down their throat and making them work longer and harder. 'cause again, I don't wanna call anybody out, but I've seen a lot of that and I think we both have, we've both been in agencies and I just think that's the key really it's kindness and it's freedom.

I can't remember who told me this quote. I've got a feeling So one of the most amazing creative directors I ever worked for was Pierre Fresco bdi and he's the managing partner of the Unit nine group.

And he always said to me that freedom is retention.when you change someone to a lamppost, they will chew themselves until they chew themselves free. Whereas if you give somebody that freedom to roam. And if they want to [00:15:00] go onto the top floor and smoke some exhausting tobacco, let them do it.

They will be happier. They'll come back and you never know what kind of creativity you're gonna unlock and what happiness and what value you might extract from them. And when you give them that freedom, you retain them. And I think the same can be said of friendships, of marriages and of business relationships, that ultimately it's not that contract between, a husband and a wife, it's not that relationship contract that keeps you together. It's happiness and it's freedom and the same goes for business Now. That was really good advice I was given at the beginning of my career. 

Radim Malinic: were you the one chain to the lamppost or the one smoking exotic tobacco on the top floor?

Alex Suchet: Man, I'm sorry to say this, but I was the one given the freedom and it still wasn't enough and I still fled and I wanted to do it on my own.but that's nobody else's fault. I'm 

Radim Malinic: glad I 

Alex Suchet: asked 

Radim Malinic: that because you mentioned a few interesting points, and there are three of them, money, happy and freedom and the freedom you're describing.

I think for some creators like discipline, it's ultimately a bit corrosive. Like it's, freedom [00:16:00] doesn't always provide the freedom that some people dream about because in a way, you feel like you don't want to conform, like you wanna blaze your own path in a way.

But the freedom ultimately, I've always tried sort of liken freedom to a riot. you can start a riot and it feels freaking awesome. It's like you can do whatever you want, however you want it, but then you realize where are we going with this riot? Like we actually need some sort of idea like where this goes, because the way of non discipline, like the freedom to do anything can actually make you ultimately unhappy.

Alex Suchet: I think it's such an ambiguous, I don't even know if you and I can really get to the bottom of this because what makes people happy is so unique. But I think I can speak broadly for most of us, when I say that I the order, you said it might be wrong, but it's money first.

Because I'm afraid this like capitalist world we live in, money tends to unlock freedom. And once you have freedom, it's that makes you happy. And I think the misconception is that it's the money that's gonna do that. Whereas actually if you are chained to your desk in the city earning big money, they're not happy.[00:17:00] 

It's freedom that gives you happiness or certainly for me and a lot of creatives, I think, it's like a comedian with a gun to his head being told, make me laugh. They can't do that on cue. And creatives need freedom to be creative and once they are given the space to be, they're happy.

Radim Malinic: Yeah. I think it was one of my guest mark or fan who says that the best work happens when people waste time. when they just literally just do whatever they do whatever they want to do. And I just like wasting time actually produces creativity. There's a John Lennon quote 

Alex Suchet: it's something like, time you enjoyed wasting, wasn't wasted.

But it's so true. there's a top, top, top photographer. He's part of Mystery Box Nick, very close friend of mine called Robert Herig. he works out Germany. He shorts all of the German Bundesliga and Sadie Benz And He said, I cannot work until I've spent at least two hours doing nothing and wasting time and reading rubbish on the internet. Only then can I get into a mindset to actually do anything. And it was so liberating for me to hear [00:18:00] that because, I'm, I'm the CEO of relatively big agency now and I feel like I should get to my desk at eight 30 in the morning and I should be able to get flick a switch and do some work.

And I am crippled with. Other people might call time wasting, but for me it's like an integral part of my process. I have to bounce the ball and read the stupid article and research that thing I don't need and mess around and get distracted by suddenly needing to repair the lawnmower, whatever, until I can actually do some work.

Radim Malinic: yeah, I can totally understand and relate to needing to just to spend time doing nothing for a little bit. ' cause you close in one door and you waiting for the other to open.

I think there's definitely way of justifying, not even justifying feeling like you don't have to justify the time when you want to switch from one side to another. Because I believe there is a way to be creative on demand, but that is years down the line. If you don't know what you're doing, it's almost imagine.

Driving a car for the first few times, I'm not gonna be asking you to do hand break turns with drifting, round roundabout somewhere, wherever you want to imagine that to [00:19:00] happen, you're gonna do it slowly, but after 20 years of driving, do this, do that, do this, you, you ready for this?

Because you've actually learned all the ins and outs that you can actually exercise the basics. Because I think we're still being fussy and entertaining every single option and we go to a from A to B as directly as we can. So I think there's a way to do it, but it obviously comes with time. I think there's, if you talk about famous quotes is that, Paul Cher, who bought it from crikey Picasso.

No, I dunno. Paul Cher said I can do it in 30 seconds because I spent 30 years doing this. And I think that there is a way to do this. But lemme talk about a little bit of your background because you've gone from production runner to be a voiceover artist and now you're owner of an agency.

So how does one get a job as a production runner? Did you see it as a way into where you wanted to be? 

Alex Suchet: I was interested in TV production and I thought it was really fascinating and I was really fortunate to, have a stepmother who had held a really senior position, At the B bbc And yeah, she helped introduce me to somebody to get me that runner's job. So I worked on Cik for, [00:20:00] pvc, for, dunno how many seasons.

And it was great. And, and actually what's so cool about that was it's creative production. That was for television broadcast. And what we do now is creative production, which tends to be for the web, however that's consumed, whether it's video or web applications or logos or whatever. And so it really gave me that first like foot in the door of understanding all the cogs and the mechanics of that.

but that's how I was given my first job. 

Radim Malinic: How did you start using your voice? Because you've become a voiceover artist. I know you obviously you a presenter on, some of the channels, and then you become a voiceover artist. Did you ever feel self-conscious about your image or your voice, or how did you.

joined those dots to say, I wanna be, I wanna not behind a camera. I'm making tea and picking up not of, but actually, you know what, I'm gonna stand in front of it. 

Alex Suchet: for sure. I think, like you said at the top, you and I've known each other for a really long time, so I'm really comfy telling you that I think,being uncomfortable and that sensation of self-consciousness is a, running theme.

I'm hoping through [00:21:00] everybody's life. And it's not just me, but to one degree or another. And always felt, Like being in front of a camera was like my secret skill that I knew I could do to a degree that the nerves didn't cripple me. I think it was Ed Ali he was asked if he gets nervous, and he said, of course I get nervous, but it's just my body's way of preparing me to do my best.

And some people, the nerves, I think Rocky says it brilliantly in Rocky three or something. He says, your best friend is Frankie. Fear. If you don't control him, he's gonna burn you up. But if you control him, it's gonna make you hot. And I always thought about that I knew that I could be in scenarios that were scary for other people, but I could control it.

doesn't mean that you don't feel the sensation of nervousness and insecurity and self-doubt. And that's hard, especially when you are literally 22 years old and you're on live TV with six cameras and you don't actually know what you're doing. that's really hard. but like anything, the more exposure you get to something, the kind of more comfortable you, get and that grows confidence.

And I think with confidence comes like an authentic sense of self. So that really helps. And I think the same goes for my role at Mystery Box. I don't [00:22:00] think there are many founders of comms agencies or digital agencies or dev agencies or whatever they are who weren't on the tools themselves.

At some point they were all comms experts or web developers or designers. And so for me, the big insecurity, certainly for the first five years of, of mystery Box was this sensation that maybe I didn't belong or that like imposter syndrome.but that kind of success helps allay those, feelings of self-doubt, which is good.

And I think I also. Came to grow a sense of, understanding of my role in the process. That actually a, I'm a really good producer and, I hate the phrase entrepreneur 'cause it sounds so money grabbing, but I can put a deal together and make sure everything's profitable, but the client's paying the right money and that the team are getting paid well.

And I can, thank God I now have a really good team who helped bring that production process from concept to delivery. But I can do that and that's okay. And that justifies my role in the process and that I'm not some kind of charlatan. But certainly when you and I first met, I just [00:23:00] thought, God, these guys are all these top,well-known designers and I don't really deserve to be mixing with them, let alone that founding an agency and working with them.

So I found that really hard, but I don't know. What do you think doesn't that self doubt run through us all? 

Radim Malinic: I think,this feels like we're doing an episode of what quote do you remember?because there was a quote that you told me ages ago, which we was, there was a quote about money, and you're talking about someone famous, I think a person was nondescript and this person was very rich, and they asked him, so what, does it feel like not to worry about money?

And they said, I just feeling in that way with worry about something different. like that we just need that sense of survival, that sort of, survival instinct and those kind of, problem solving in our lives. So if you tick off one box, it doesn't mean that, have all the other boxes disappear because you talked about the feeling of not belonging, being 22 in front of cameras, not knowing, what's to do.

How long did it take you to self accept your space? How long did it say, you know what, this is who I am. I'm not [00:24:00] Fiona Bruce. because self-acceptance take time. I know the year potentially where I self-accepting myself when I realize this is the life I'm living.

I'm not living a version of someone else's life. This is my life. you accept elements. So how did it feel for you? 

Alex Suchet: 

I feel like the real answer is so guch, but I think for me, being financially successful was in, many ways more validating than I anticipated it to be.

Alex Suchet: Because I think we all start off thinking, how I feel about myself is how I feel about myself, but if I had money, I'll be happy. And for me, it was not the case. It was, gosh, making money. It gave me a sense of self validation and it contributed to my happiness absolutely zero, which was a surprise.

it's also validating. 'cause when you set out to build a business, the money is the measure by which you can a, at the conclusion of whether or not you are doing well or not, whether this works or not. 'cause I think building a business it's a bit like raising a child and sending it out into the world.

and when your business does well, you think, okay, that validates my initial [00:25:00] decision that doing this was a good idea and that this works. And without sounding soppy, seeing the people you hired at the very beginning, which I still have, 12 years later, seeing them put deposits on houses and have families of their own.

And That was really validating. oh, do you know what? I've made a very small, but very positive, like impact on people beyond me. And that was really validating. 

Radim Malinic: That sounds very great because I think what you're describing is the happiness of service. You've actually helped someone, you actually, you've given someone chance, outside of your own,circle or your own sort of your own life.

Obviously you actually influence other people's life and this is where happiness is almost often, misunderstood because as you said, in the order, money, freedom, happy, there's a lot of very rich people being very unhappy because they don't really know what's to do with themselves or worry about it stuff.

And, Yeah. Being able to provide for others and build a team around you that's what counts.

So I wanna put a bit more color on the, story that you started talking about is how you and I [00:26:00] met, because at first we were business partners because you were my agent, you were representing me as an illustrator and a designer because that was the first incarnation of your business, 

how did the idea come about to throw yourself into the unknown, where did it come from? 

Alex Suchet: I wish you didn't ask me this, but it came to me watching like the X factor or something in 2010 when it dawned on me that Simon Cowells getting a somebody on stage and then getting nobodies on stage with them, and then under his ownership, the nobodies became somebodies.

And that became quite a natural like way to evolve and grow. And I thought, okay, I'm not a designer, I'm not a developer and I've got no clients. how do you start an agency? So yeah, I decided to work with people like yourself and to say, listen, I'll be your agent and I'll manage your financial affairs and negotiate the deals and the contracts and be the go-between, between you and the client.

And once you've got six or eight or 10 great designers like you, every now and again, the clients will come in with a job that's actually not appropriate for any of you. And then I'd go off and find [00:27:00] another designer who is appropriate for, and then lo and behold, they join too. And then suddenly you've got so much, such an influx of client requests that there was that op, that really natural opportunity to be an agency in a mystery box's own right?

And then we were just a design agency and then suddenly it made sense, maybe, we should go into development too. And then suddenly. Dev and tech is, 80 and probably 90% of mystery box's business today. So I think that really calls back to what we were talking about earlier where I really went, where the wind blew.

If I had, I started off saying we are gonna be a design agency and only represent artists. We would've gone bankrupt around, I don't know, whenever the world changed. And I think that if I could hammer that point into anybody's brain, it would just be flexible and creative and just go where the wind takes you, opportunity whispers, it doesn't shout.

Do you know what I mean? 

Radim Malinic: Yeah, Absolutely. And I think it goes back to the red car, blue car, because you and I although we've worked together and we did quite a few projects together. [00:28:00] I was at that stage where. I was very much about like signature style. This is me, this is my expression, this is what I wanna do.

I don't wanna do things that I might potentially regret because they're not my style or they don't make me happy. there is a lot of clinging on. Has been, will be, there will always be people doing the thing because it's their signature style, And some people can build very lucrative careers on their signature styles, but they don't always evolve as necessary with the world, Which is exactly what you did. because I remember I was having a conversation, you're like, I'm happy to do this and that, that's scavenging but you were just like, I'm happy to do this.

I'm happy to do that. Because that was your incubation period. You were actually learning about so many like very things, right? 

Alex Suchet: If there's a Fiverr there to be made and everybody's happy, let's make the Fiverr and grow from that. And I think what you've just said is so important. And we'll be careful here, but there are other very well known designers who did the opposite, had their North Star and did exactly what you just described, where they were like, that's my style, that's what I do.

I say no to anything that isn't. And They've all gone and [00:29:00] got, yeah. they've gone and had to get a job. and so I think that's what defines you and maybe me and other people who have longevity in whatever industry they work in, is that they don't have that rigidity.

that I think takes a degree of, it's brave, isn't it, to step into what you don't know. Certainly. Like in your case, for you to say, okay, I'm gonna go and do something that hasn't been my jam ever.   

Radim Malinic: I think with the people who don't evolve or run out of the, the runway with their sort of style.

That's the choice. that's how some people just work because obviously people like us or people like you and I, we are d potentially differently, hardwired, it's easy to think that what you've built, you've built for life only to realize that everything changes as much, much quicker than you would ever imagine.

I'm sure you find in your business that the systems and the processes you've had, let's say five years ago are no longer valid, like things you did two years ago,the, especially in the world of digital, like lots changes really quickly with protocols and PhD, whatever, script [00:30:00] and language, a lot changes and I think.

When I look back at the career that I had, I'm glad that I spent time on my signature development, and I'm also now glad I don't care about my signature development because the signature is in one way or another there, because I'm still the person, directing the work or doing the work, but Wait a minute, there's wider opportunities. it's just a cognitive and it's a mindset shift. You are like, you know what? There's other things I wanna pursue. And actually the five that you described, okay, let's make a five this way. It makes me make a five that way.

Because in an artist way, we're like, I don't think I like the color of the five. it's not my favorite five, therefore I think I'll pass and wait for tenor to come my way. and that would be my color. You're thinking, you know what, that's the choice because how long, have you got time to wait for, the color of the tenor that you want, instead of the fiber 

Alex Suchet: that's 

Radim Malinic: in 

Alex Suchet: front 

Radim Malinic: of you, you 

Alex Suchet: know?

I think you look at like musicians, you can't pump out nine albums of the same stuff. they grow and evolve and that comes with a degree of risk. Am my fan base gonna this completely new sound? I'm trying out, and I think, same for Mystery [00:31:00] Box, for a long time the clients were Apples and Harry Potters and Warner Brothers and James Bonds and all these cool.

And now we do a lot of work for a major government, and I see that as not a sort of like a reshaping of our brand and our output, but a challenge and an opportunity for growth. And that's surely what defines creativity. If creativity is for sale, then surely creativity must be for sale.

And it shouldn't be dictated by what we.deemed to be our flavor of what we serve in our restaurant. It's about challenge and where you are challenged, you grow, and where you step into new territory, unexpected greatness and indeed failures emerge. And I think that is the key to success and to, happiness and growth and longevity.  

Radim Malinic: Your role of a conductor, did you ever feel there was a natural way to do it? Or did you have to teach yourself like how [00:32:00] to actually conduct a little orchestra? 

Alex Suchet: I partly had no choice. ' cause I was what I was and it came naturally because I knew I could connect with people. I knew I could lead a team.

I knew I could sell to the client externally. And it was just that kind of feeling that the shoe fit really well.but again, that comes with the challenge of, how do you get, gain the trust of your internal team who are black belts in their various skills, whether it's S-E-O-P-P-C dev design and how do you acquire enough knowledge in order to effectively sell and upskill your client.

And so that takes time. And I think for sure, there was a, a period of time that I didn't do that very well or well enough. And anything you learn and I think a good producer has a huge breadth of knowledge. that I could talk to you about anything from service security to digital marketing, to application development, but I can only talk to you in a degree of depth about it.

And as soon as I find I'm seas that are too deep for me to swim, [00:33:00] I wheel in the guy in my team who's a black belt in it. and so that works.   

Radim Malinic: Did you ever come across lots of ego battles? Especially, and I say ego because to me, ego, to some people, ego could be a bravado. Whereas I feel like ego is like a, strong sense of identity that we try to protect because there's a reason for us to be wheeled in as the black belt specialist.

But as someone who said, I needed to be better at managing, how I do this, how much empathy and people's skills and, emotional intelligence did you need to add your arsenal to make it all work? Because as we all know, you can be battling with a designer with a stubborn designer until there's no, blood left in anyone's face.

You're like, dude, it could be just, tweak it by one degree. Done.   

Alex Suchet: I would say that, you know what I lack in iq, I think. my black belt's been eq, so I've always felt well equipped to manage that kind of person. But interestingly, I find like the most talented and skilled experts in whatever their field have, the least ego actually.

And it's [00:34:00] often,the ones that make the most noise, that actually have the least To say I think that, I'm pretty sure that's true. And so that's really telling. And when I think of the best people I know at whatever their skill is, they're actually very shy.

They're not comfortable talking to the client directly. And they'd much rather be in their jammies with their cat on their lap, with their headphones on writing unbelievable code. And they don't want to argue and debate and shout about how great they are. And so that's my job. I just need to get the nuggets of information from them and translate it and present it for,   

Radim Malinic: I think what you described is called superiority complex.

people who feel like they need to justify their space in the room of space, in the equation, often shout loudest because it's a form of a defense. it's an offense, It's like a verbal attack, like verbal sort of defense, by projecting some sort of vision of the persona.

They're not, but they're trying to create just before we actually find out who they really are. So yeah, the least egoistic person. This usually doesn't have anything to prove because they've already achieved that black [00:35:00] belt in a chosen field that, you can rely on them. So let's say, your uncle who's accomplished actor, I don't think he needs to prove anyone that he can act.  

Alex Suchet: I think that's true. But equally, I think there are also, and this is mainly young people who know they've got it and they've know they've got what it takes and they're just bursting to prove it. And so that can leak out in a way that they might not intend. So it's important to forgive that.

And I think I was probably one of those when I really reflect and so I give a special pass to those. But come on, if you're a guy who's been doing this, a guy or girl who's been doing this for 20 years, you're great at what you do. I think you can afford to just take a modesty pill and settle down.

Radim Malinic: I think it comes with time, It's also insecurity, especially at the beginning of our stage, at at early stages of our careers. the insecurities is rife and you try to make noise just to justify your space. Whereas, if you're still making noise after 20 years and you're not sure about your space, then there might be something wrong.

like what are you worried that people might find out? because I [00:36:00] remember when I had my first crappy job as a designer, I felt like a superhero. and I, and I was totally unaware of what I didn't know. I was just like, Hey, I'm here to solve the world.

Then you realize actually in not you think it is, obviously, and what you don't know is what would you lack an experience. You make up an excitement and enthusiasm. That's great, but. God, I was making some stupid suggestions and decisions because you feel all of a sudden you've been empowered with something that can influence the world outside, whereas you're not.

You need to learn how to be F1 because kid comes from college and goes to Army and goes, oh, I fell. I'll take you to battle. Because that's what we sometimes think with because we are seduced by our ego, by our identity, and by the opportunity that, oh, let's do this.

I'll lead you. It's no, no, it's happy. it's okay for you to actually sit down and listen and only do what you need to do because that's how you learn more, rather than come up with 17 different ideas and come up with things that are, great that you show enthusiasm. But I think it's been really misunderstood, especially at the early design stages where people go you asked for one thing, I've given you seven.

Okay. [00:37:00] Shows you thinking, but it also shows you that you're not thinking because you only need to do one thing, you do it well. that's what we ask you to do. And if you have any suggestions, it would be great to have, because I could never really understand what working with older clients when I was younger and they're like, this is what we want.

And I'm like, of course when you'll be younger and snooty. You're like, yeah, that's a piece of shit. why'd you want that? That could be so much better. And then you realize, why'd you want this? Why'd you want this? Why'd you want this? And then you get 20 years older, you're like, I totally understand why they wanted just one thing because they've already validated 19 others.

That's as invalid. And it just makes you think Oh, there's time to shut up and actually listen, because it's so much easier to get the job done by just doing what's been asked for you. Because unless you lead in the orchestra, even as an orchestra, there's gonna be a jamming in some extra style.

oh, let's have a, guy playing the keg from Slipknot, in the middle of BBC Promise, because that's a good idea. you're not gonna suggest that you go with the flow, but you try to do best out of what you've been given. And that goes back to freedom and the limitations that, [00:38:00] if you have freedom and limitations, that's the best place to be.

Because again, know we play football on the pitches, we've defined shapes, we don't freestyle, let's add a couple of curves and maybe a water slide, because that's a good idea. Like it's a pitch. This is the rule. Make the best of it.   

Alex Suchet: Totally. like we said, it all comes with time and.

Ultimately, remember I was talking to somebody about this recently and I just said, all I really do is sell noises and pixels. we're not changing the world here. Just enjoy it, behave yourself, and the rest will work itself out. 

Radim Malinic: So with the people that you work with and stuff that you do, obviously we work together on the Harry Potters and the bonds and stuff.

It can sometimes feels like a surreal marker in the sand when you arrive there and you're like, okay, we've done, this work for Warner Brothers. We've done this, and that. But primarily it's just about understanding how people work and how the work works because it's just like that one skill set and you can apply to different clients with different ways.

Alex Suchet: Definitely. I think, it's key in a team to have a variety of personalities and skill sets. I think a team full of Alex Ches and a [00:39:00] team full of rad Malish just wouldn't get off the starting line. And I think, who is it? Was it the SAS? I can't remember what I was watching, but they said something like, these top Marines would so much rather have a man or woman next to them who is loyal and kind and likable, but actually not very talented.

Than somebody who's really talented and they don't feel has their back or that they don't have a close rapport with. So I think that speaks to a, the importance of happiness in a team and of respecting each other's boundaries and expertise, but also about our differences. There are so many things, this podcast isn't long enough for me to rattle through them.

There are so many things I'm bad at and it's so important to recognize them and hire people to fill those gaps. And equally, there are things I'm good at and it's important not to hire people who also think they're good at that, to avoid butting heads with them. And so I think that's the key to a, good team is just that all your bases are covered and that you respect each other's [00:40:00] areas of expertise.

And where we,acknowledge that they get to make the call on that because they're probably right. Even though I feel strongly about something. 

Radim Malinic: When you say with the work that you're doing, which is not necessarily driven by style or any sort of visual signature, is it difficult to have a North Star?

Is it difficult to know where you heading in? Because this would be listened to by a lot of people who have done sort of visual North Star, like will have the dream list of clients written down. They would have some sort of work that they've seen done by others and they benchmark it. But with what you do, and I know you growing year on year.

Without people knowing really too much about what you do, because you've got no social media presence, very minimal. you don't clown around about, how to do this and that, but you focus on the work. And I think you are one of the prime examples of you don't need social media to be successful.

In fact, you need to be in the room, looking at the blue and red cars. so yeah. In terms of your growth and stuff, how are you driven and where do you see where you heading? 

Alex Suchet: I guess on the social media point, relevant for some people's models, [00:41:00] right? And I decided it wasn't relevant for hours.

And so if that's the case, why plunge so much time into developing it? unless that social kudos means a great deal to you. And I can tell you it means nothing to me.so for me it was a no brainer. I, you just don't need to smell the roses or have other people hold roses to your nose and what to tell everyone how great you're doing But in terms of the style kind of mystery boxes style, our North Star is quality, it's profitability, it's quality, it's nice clients who want your advice and who value your expertise and who have interesting problems and challenges that we know we can solve. And it's about having the integrity to decline, the opportunity to work with people if there's a shred of doubt that we wouldn't do it to a world class standard ' cause it's not worth our reputation and it's out of respect for them and wanting the best for them.

So where's Mr. Rocks going? it's still, and I think always will be in hot pursuit [00:42:00] of producing good work. With a team of happy people and a team of happy, grateful clients that we are grateful to have. And if we can keep growing, that would be great. And if we stagnated, we would all be very grateful for that too.

And it's about going where the wind takes us because in six months time I might have a different answer. 

Radim Malinic: You mentioned quality, not producing good work. No good pursuit. ' cause that's where the happiness comes from. 'cause it's the edges or the catchment area for happiness is much wider because you don't necessarily hoping that you would get a client who says, yeah, I really like this in your portfolio.

Can you do this for me? Because that's where the trouble and model starts. you don't do a repeat of a repeat. 'cause when you open yourself to opportunities, you realize that you find. The good, the profitable, and the happiness in something you didn't even know existed.

Because if you close yourself off to most of the opportunities and you're waiting for something that will just tickle your ego and tickle [00:43:00] your sort of happiness from inwards, then I think that's, hard to achieve. So it was a nice answer, that what you said, this is where I'm heading with the studio.

Because for those that rely on social media or believe that social media is that sort of magic tree that will find them, put a pathway with new clients, how do you work with new clients? how do you find new clients? How do you find new opportunities? How'd you make it work? 

Alex Suchet: 

I'll use the analogy that clients are like friends.

Alex Suchet: You don't go out into social media looking for friends. You make friends by being kind and by being open to new relationships and by treating the existing friends you have really well. ' cause then they'll introduce you to their other nice friends and then you make more friends. But you don't go into social media saying hashtag kind, hashtag loyal, hashtag you know, looking for friends.

So I always believe that the best relationships occur organically. And you've got this client, you do so well and do you know what, maybe they move job or they go somewhere else and their first call is to you to pull you in. Or they have to make a recommendation. There's [00:44:00] other business owner they know.

And so for me, I think the best relationships were acquired organically and without having to pay to run ads to convince them. ' cause you're already on the back foot as an agency if you're in this position of selling to them from day one. if you're on a. Date with someone. You don't sit there and say, I'm very kind.

I'm very funny, I'm very loyal. You demonstrate that by being funny, by being loyal and by being kind right it, you are robbed of authenticity and like you are sincerity from the off in my opinion, if you are just blasting LinkedIn and Instagram to get your clients. So it's always been my belief that you attain clients via root of authenticity because then the relationship starts on the right foot and you want each other equally.

Instead of the agency just, or whoever's getting paid, the payee begging to keep them or to convince them to part with their money. ' cause then you're just stuck in this cycle of proving yourself and it suddenly doesn't become a relationship and a [00:45:00] shared journey to create quality. Actually at that point, that's my opinion.

I could, be wrong. 

Radim Malinic: I like how you say you don't go on social media to look for friends. You don't do that. I don't do that. But lots of people do that because unfortunately, they haven't forged those sort of seeds. They haven't planted those seeds to grow them, in a compounding way.

The future, of the world is, in a way, if you look at the world of social media, the world is obsessed with new business. Like, how do I grow? What's my numbers? Because lots of people don't know they're enough. And not knowing you're enough, it's very, very, very distracting thing.

So when you think about your process or when you think about how you've grown this stuff. It's a beautiful way of comparison to, the dating, like the first date when you said you don't go on a first date until I'm caring. When you watch the dating shows on tv, which sadly, I'm a, passive viewer of these shows.

'cause when my wife works in the evening, she puts an easy watch on a tele, it's usually like some trash, like Murray, the first side or left triangle. And because these people are longing for something, you can almost see [00:46:00] how much work they need in therapy and reassurance that there are enough, they're okay.

you can see how, those shows are casted with broken people or fragile people who are hoping that just because they were Paired up with a stranger, that devil will have the best sex life in the world. They'll have the best parenting in the world that, like everything will be rosy.

People go I was coming here to find real love. I'm like, Jesus. I'm like, I don't even go to shop and I'll find an avocado that sell us avocados. this needs to grow organically. when we actually get a new conversation with a new client, we're like, oh yeah, and we are great at this and great at that, There is so much aligned with the dating world when it comes to creativity. When you are not sure what you're doing, because when you are comfortable in your shoes, you're like, yeah, that bit we are gonna give it to somebody else, or we're gonna find you somebody else that you are honest. You are like, you're truthful.

You say, that's how we work. When you haven't got a sort out, you work with everyone and anyone and you, make a mess of it, just like

in your dating life.   

Alex Suchet: It's relationships, right? it's all relationships. It's relationships with your colleagues, your clients and just imagine a [00:47:00] client coming to you and saying, please work with us, please.

I promise we'll pay on time. And I promise the work. It just feels odd, right? just let things happen and let the wind take you where it's supposed to go and just enter all these relationships offering to give more than you are trying to take. And When I think of like our loveliest clients, there's such a strong sense of trust in each other and of mutual gratitude and respect. And I think the same goes for the best friendships I have.and we all know this stuff, it's inherent to us all, but we seem to apply a different rule when just the transaction of money is involved at the end of a process. And I think, I wonder if that's a mistake. 

Radim Malinic: So to, lead us out, what would you say is the main problem you solve and that you feel like you found a solution to it?  

Alex Suchet: rad. Why don't you warn me of these questions? 

professionally. I think I've solved a different way of doing business and a different way of working. mystery box, everybody's been remote since 2011, which was, [00:48:00] COVID gave us the cover to legitimize and authenticate that way of working. And I think I may have preempted that way of working really early.

And I think I sold the conundrum of how an agency can be really. efficient and profitable doing things differently. And I think personally I established a working structure that I can sustain 'cause I couldn't get the tube and work for an office every day. But I think I've found a way that I can work 70 hours a week, but happily without burnout and feel satisfied.

And I feel really, grateful for that. 

Radim Malinic: I'm really happy. you sound very content. I've known you for a long time and it's nice to see you thrive. You've done things your way, you will keep doing them your way. And you've always been an inspiration to me, even though, you know we've got age difference.

You are younger and I feel in some ways you're ahead of me in certain ways because there's a level of you being divorced from that. Egoistical signature style. I need to [00:49:00] follow this, these values, I need to do this. Of course, you've got values of your own, but you looked at places and the ways of growth and development that some of our sort of visual partners and friends didn't even consider.

And I think this is, a testament to your success because you've done amazingly. I'm excited where it takes you and where it takes us and what you do next. 

Alex Suchet: Thank you mate. Thank you for the kind words, and thank you so much for having me on. 

Radim Malinic: Welcome. Thank you. 

Alex Suchet: Thank you.  

Radim Malinic: Hey. Thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, rather man. Editing and audio production was massively done by Niall Mackay from Seven Million Bikes Podcast, and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James.[00:50:00] 

Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.