Dare to find silence in the storm - Mitch Monson

Mitch Monson, Executive Director of Creative and Partnerships at Sibling Rivalry, shares his extraordinary journey from self-taught graphic designer to creating iconic work for Prince, Marvel, and the Olympics. With a unique background spanning military nuclear submarine service and backcountry snowboarding, Mitch offers insights on risk-taking, leadership, and the power of saying yes to opportunities that initially seem beyond your capabilities.

The conversation explores how a young Minneapolis design company landed Prince as a client, leading to the creation of his famous Love Symbol. Mitch reveals how his self-taught background became a superpower, allowing him to break rules he never learned and approach creativity without traditional constraints. His military training instilled leadership principles of "leaders eat last," while extreme sports provide the mental reset necessary for sustained creative output.

Key Takeaways

• Risk-taking is life-giving: Mitch doesn't see risk as dangerous but as the moments when he feels most alive and engaged
• Self-taught advantage: Not knowing the rules can be a superpower, enabling rule-breaking and fresh approaches to creative challenges
• Invest in yourself first: Don't wait for permission or company funding to pursue growth opportunities - make it happen yourself
• Document the journey: Taking photos and reflecting on moments helps appreciate achievements and motivates future growth
• Geographic flexibility accelerates success: Being willing to move for opportunities significantly impacts creative career trajectory
• Leaders serve their teams: Military-inspired leadership means putting people first and working for your team, not the other way around
• Silence enables creativity: Finding quiet spaces (like mountaintops) provides essential mental resets for sustained creative work
• Community over competition: Bringing people together through programs like Assembly creates value for the entire industry
• Iteration builds excellence: Working with demanding clients like Prince teaches rapid iteration and maintaining high standards under pressure
• Presence matters: How you show up - like Prince arriving ready for stage at 9am Sunday - sets the tone for professional relationships
• Embrace being uncomfortable: The anxiety and fear in creative work are normal; the key is not letting them prevent action
• Military training translates: Skills from high-stakes environments provide calculated risk assessment and preparation for creative challenges

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Transcript

Mitch Monson: [00:00:00] being self-taught or just not having so much formal education, it also means you're asking a lot more questions. You know, and I, and I'm always that person, like, I, I'm not the person gonna ask for directions to get somewhere or, or to get a recommendation.

Something like, there's just, there's no embarrassment in that, I guess. Or, or, or fear of like, I'm, I'm gonna be an idiot is like. I always wanna be that person in the room. And I think even now when I think of the people that I work with is like, I'm not the smartest person in the room and that's exactly where I wanna be.

Like, I wanna be around people that are kind of challenging me and that I feel that I can ask those questions because, um, because I think like it's easier for me to break the rules because of it, because I don't know the rules. And I think that's, that, that, I thought for sure for years that was a huge hindrance and that was gonna hold me back.

And I realized that was actually a superpower . [00:01:00] 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a question for you. Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

Let me begin this episode of a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

Radim Malinic: Today I am speaking with Mitch Monson, executive Director of Creative and Partnerships at Sibling Rivalry. In our conversation, he shares his extraordinary journey from self-thought [00:02:00] graphic designer to created iconic work for Prince Marvel and the Olympics 

 With a unique background spanning military, nuclear submarine service and backcountry snowboarding. With a unique background spanning military nuclear service.

Radim Malinic: Mitch offers insights on risk-taking leaderships and the power of saying yes to opportunities that initially seem beyond your capabilities. 

Radim Malinic: This conversation explores how a young Minneapolis designed company landed Prince as a client 

Radim Malinic: leading to the creation of his famous love symbol, 

Radim Malinic: Mitch also reveals how his self-taught background became a superpower, 

Radim Malinic: allowing him to break rules he never learned, and approach creativity without traditional constraints. 

It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Mitch Monson.

 Hey, Mitch, welcome to the show.

Mitch Monson: Hey, nice to see you. It's great to be here.

Radim Malinic: likewise. So good to see you. I'm, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I [00:03:00] think you've got a career such illustrious career that you've had so far that the concept of daring creativity, daring explorations, you know, achievements are just, um, I was gonna say littered, but, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's scattered all over your career so far.

 So for those who may have never heard of Mitch Monon, how would you introduce yourself? 

Mitch Monson: Uh, well, I'm Mitch Munson and I am the Executive Director of Creative and Partnerships at Sibling Rivalry. Uh, we're both in New York and in la And pretty much all over the world. Uh, my role really, it's, it's, interesting and it's, it's, why I'm really excited to chat today because I've always been a executive creative director, creative director, designer.

 Um, so I've always been a maker, but the past three years, a big part of my career has been change to also business development, um, because I have a lot of background as an owner. So I think, you know, I'm, I'm excited to talk about that, but that's kind of the different part of my role now that I've been at sibling rivalry.

 Uh, and our company itself does,  uh, a lot of work in the entertainment, tech and [00:04:00] music. Spaces. We do a lot of work both in production as well as in brand design. Uh, and then actually always what's our biggest question is what's the sibling rivalry mean? And I think  there's just the, the name itself is a lot of our ethos, I guess.

We have a, a Dutch and a British founding partner. And I think that's kind of where it starts. And, and it's about having that relationship with our team and our clients that we're always challenging each other and really pushing for, for excellence. So that's, that's a little bit about me.

Radim Malinic: I like it. I like it. I think you and I have something in common. We are both self-taught graphic designers and Yeah. Well, yeah, it's, it's my admission. I mean, I, I, I found that sort of non-traditional process of getting into all of this exceptionally liberating because nobody tells you what you should do, should be doing or what you shouldn't be doing, but with your beginnings of, of, of you being a graphic designer, one of your first clients, and one of the first pieces of work that. you've done totally struck me when  when I've done, sort of, I've discovered you and your [00:05:00] work.

 It's like, like, wait a minute. that.

symbol that I've known for most of my life is your work. So for those who might not know what I'm talking about, how would you explain it? 

Mitch Monson: Uh, well, I think it's interesting because I always start that story is you never know when you're working on a project, um, where, where that's going to go or what the legacy is gonna be of that particular piece. And I think our original opportunity to work with Prince was exactly that, is, I think we were really all young in our career.

  We had only, we started a company when I was, uh, 27,  uh, with two other partners. So we were only. You know, two or three years into our building of this business. And, and really to get the opportunity to work with him  in any, in any way, shape or form was amazing. So we were just kind of those young kids that said, you know, yes to everything that he asked.

And we just kept more and more and just as part of that process, you know, he was, he was looking at getting out of his [00:06:00] contract with Warner Brothers and this love symbol became one of the ways that, uh, he  kind of introduced himself to the world or reintroduced himself. So we were lucky enough to be around at that time.

Radim Malinic: How did you even get in contact with print in the first place? Did it come through your label or did it, uh, how, how, how, how did that happen? 

Mitch Monson: That's a great question. So the one thing that's great just was so great about him is that he had, um, as an artist, a real attachment to the state of Minnesota where he grew up. So he used a lot of local artists. So, you know, besides production and design and stuff like we do, a lot of musicians and other talent were based in, in Minnesota.

 And you know, again, we were, we were a pretty young company. Our work was really much more corporate, commercial type of stuff that we were doing. So to get an opportunity with him, it was just kind of word of mouth in, in Minneapolis when one of his producers and his creative directors heard about us. Uh, so they, yeah, he just showed up on a Sunday.

Sunday morning to come see our, come see our space after [00:07:00] hearing about us. He literally looked like he jumped off a stage you, and he had his full yellow outfit coming out of his full B, you know, yellow BMW, and walked through our space, uh, on a Sunday. And, And, by the next week we were starting to work with him and, uh.

He just had, I think from that point forward as, as I'm sure you've had with other celebrity or, or arts or sports clients, is that once you kind of strike up a really good relationship with them, uh, it just gets really personal and you get, you get asked to do a lot of amazing things. And that,  that was kind of the beginning of the rocket ship,  I guess, is we, we then spent about a year and a half doing music videos and doing,  uh, a lot of other design for anything from album covers to the stage performances that he is doing in Tokyo to whatever, like you start opening that door and it just leads to so many crazy things.

Uh, so we were really fortunate,

Radim Malinic: That sounds amazing, Mitch, by the way, when you, before your next answer, you can actually be bit further away from a microphone because you got, because you haven't got a Yeah, yeah, because you, because you, because you haven't got a pop filter, so it, it picks up on 

Mitch Monson: it popping? A little bit. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah. Yeah. And you, where you are now is perfect. 

Mitch Monson: Cool. Do you want me to do 

Radim Malinic: Um, 

Mitch Monson: of that over? 

Radim Malinic: no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, well, we've got AI filter on that one, but, but like, it's just the cleaner we can have, it does better. So I, I I, I ha so I have to ask young company, celebrity client, and you're not doing just a little bits. I mean, you just said, you mentioned doing stage, you're doing [00:08:00] everything, you know, from stage to album covers to love symbol, like, I mean, it's incredible.

I've never heard of Minnesota of being the mecca for design, because only time I heard of Minnesota was from the lyrics in Outshine by Sound Garden when Chris Gordon LA singing. I'm Looking California and Feeling Minnesota, and I'm like, oh, I don't know anything about this place, but I'm gonna think it.

back because as you know, from on my show, I talk a lot about confidence.

I talk about sort of the, the trajectory of a creative where, especially at younger age, it feels a little bit scary. It feels like, you know, you feel like you want to be daring, but you don't have that experience of selling your point or selling your idea, kind of going with his clients as big as Prince going into the creative battle.

I mean, I'm sure that you did exactly what he asked for and maybe not pushed back too much. Did it feel overwhelming? Did it feel like you were at the right place? Did it feel like you were at a better, sorry? Did it feel like you were at the right place at the right time with the right resilience, the right toolkit, or was it like a big washing machine of experience going? It just worked out. 

Mitch Monson: Well, I think, you know, you're always, you're always intimidated, you know, with the, with especially an artist like that. Because the other thing is I was such a fan, you know, and, and, and actually all of us, my other partners too, were just such fans of Prince that it's just, it's again, kind of looking, working with one of your heroes, which was, I think, the first part that was a bit intimidating.

 But I think, you know, the, the thing is at that age, and I think especially when, you know, you're starting a company, and at that point in time, obviously [00:09:00] too, the, there was a big cash entry into getting into digital production and the kind of things we were doing at that point. So, you know, we had a couple million dollars in debt as far as what we were doing with a new digital facility and, and our edit suites and graphic suites, et cetera.

 So when, you know, when you, when you're getting to that point of. Working with somebody like that and then knowing that, hey, this is not only gonna be a amazing creative opportunity, but we're gonna be able to really, um, push the company forward financially. And, and as a business we could be hiring more people It definitely changed so many different things in our process. So I think we did recognize that early on, that um, this is a lot. We don't know exactly what we're doing, but if we say yes, and we, and we get the other kind of partners we need and be really scrappy, you know, we can figure all this stuff out.

So even, yeah, even things that we're way out of our pay grade, like we knew how to figure it out. Like we were, we were that scrappy and gorilla about it.

Radim Malinic: You said that you got, you said that you got interns, [00:10:00] work ethic, and that's thanks to Prince. Was he, uh, was he really, I mean, I mean, we know that he was really like, you know, fierce and worked hard, but how much of that inspiration and how much of that energy was sort of in the room that it, it, you know, you know, inspired you so much that did, I mean, it sounds like you sort of, you a, your game, but when you started, when you started working with him. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah, it's a great question. 'cause I think, I always tell people, because they always ask what is it like working with him is like, the one really unique thing is you just know when he is in the building. Like so in our space, like even if it wasn't announced that he was gonna be working with us that afternoon, you just knew when he was in the building.

 Like there's just that presence about it and that energy about it. Um, and then when you did know he was gonna be there, it's just like, yeah, it just makes you, um, you know, stand at attention and really dive in. And I think the, besides the work ethic part of it, which, uh, and I'm sure, you know, from, from working with a lot of other artists too, is like, there's just no.

There's no timeline. Like even in a 24 hour day, it's not a, we're not talking about 24 hours and we're not talking about a Tuesday or a Wednesday. Is like, that is so fluid in his world that that's why engineers are working at two in the morning on a Thursday or at one in the morning on a Sunday. Is that whenever that kind of happened for [00:11:00] him, that's when things were, uh, going to be created or be.

 you know, there's a little bit of that. You feel like you're on call all the time, but the energy of that, you know, is really unique and I think it got us really good at iterating quickly, you know, and doing stuff at a pace that we had never done before. So I learned a lot in that part of it. Uh, and then also just the, the presence of like bringing in more collaborators 'cause to work that quickly too.

It's not just you, you have to get a really robust team of people pushing on all this stuff at the same time. So we, built a really close team out of it as well.

Radim Malinic: Like you said, collaborating and iterating. I mean, I always say that unless you have 27 different options for a album cover, you haven't really tried, you know, like you really need to explore every single opportunity and every single chance. But I've got this random memory of listening to podcasts who, entrepreneur, who started sort of like a skin fra fragrance company and she said, you know, they said that Prince.

Was layering his smells like the way he was using his like cologne and the like, like deodorants, whatever. Like apparently he had like this presence that he just, like, he was layering how Well, he smelled like, so he said he was in a room. I'm thinking, well that's just the energy, right? Because I mean, whatever he was doing, this is more random memory of like, they basically, he was known for not the way he was dressing.

The way he like know was smelling in a way.

Mitch Monson: Well, and I think, you know, and when I described that moment of when he, when we first met him and when he came to,  uh, our company is that, again, it's a Sunday morning at like nine o'clock and he literally looks like he's ready to jump on a concert stage. So like he was always kind of prepared, always kind of ready.

Like he wasn't, he wasn't showing up in sweats. You know, it just like that, you know, if anybody's just amazing at brand identity and his personal brand, it was him. And I think that was our entire experience from the [00:12:00] first day we worked with him till the end is that, uh, you know, he was, he was just always, uh, he was always prepared, he was always put together.

 And I think, you know, I'm, I'm sure a lot of your mentees are the same way as they're always asking, what can I do different? It's like when you show up, make sure you show up and, and have it together and. Come, you know, presenting yourself in a really strong way because that first impression is so key.

And that was definitely him.

Radim Malinic: Has it, I mean, you're right about a personal brand because personally I don't listen to music of his, you know, I don't. I was never really a fan. Obviously I can, I can, I can have a wiggle to Purple Rain when it's on the radio or whatever. Like this is all, this is all me. I mean, I know James Victoria, for example, in, in Mexico was singing Purple Rain upstage.

 He was like, yeah, would you be around for Purple Rain? I was like, well, hopefully if I'm not asleep. But I love that element of personal brown because it's these little things that I know of him and about him, what I've seen, what I've heard, what I've read, um, what made the impact on me, you know? 'cause I'm thinking like, how do you create your identity so daring in a way that anyone knows who you are and that's your legacy, because whatever he's recorded, whatever he is done and he's done some amazing stuff to me, [00:13:00] first and foremost is that sort of visual experience, that sort of presence, that sort of, you know, visual philosophy.

Like this is what I stand for. Because as you said, you, he's, look, he looks like, he looked like he was ready to go on stage at nine o'clock in the morning because it.

was like, to me it felt like there was a day off. 

Mitch Monson: Uh, yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, the other thing is when, when we were doing this work, obviously we didn't have a, uh, an idea of really what the symbol meant. We really thought it was going to be part of, you know, what we're doing for the album cover itself and for some of the, you know, some of the base elements of, you know, what we do for, um, all of the promotion, et cetera.

But, you know, none of us thought it was going to be this, this, uh, you know, bigger picture thing of what he was trying to do with his music and wanting to put out more music, and also wanting to get out of his contract. That there's so many things behind it. So there's obviously now that you look at it from, you know.

At this point of view, there was obviously a lot of things in his head and a lot of planning he was doing that we just didn't know about. But again, when you think about that, that's pretty, that like his marketing mind and just how much he thought ahead in so many different parts of his, uh, his kind of journey is incredible.

Radim Malinic: Before [00:14:00] we leave print and piece, we'll go. One last question about the work. Um, I should talk about iteration and sometimes we look at back our past work. I'm Sure. sometimes you look at the symbol and go, yeah, we had a different version of that, which worked better. Or, I, I, you know, because that that's a piece of work that's either following you or haunting you thinking, you know, there was a version that was better.

So when do you see, Well, because it, it still very much exists in the present. Uh, when you see it, is it happy memories?

Mitch Monson: Well, um, it's actually both, so I'm glad you asked. ' cause I think the happy memories are, it's, you know, again, just to see something that so symbolizes what he's all about, you know, inclusion and acceptance and all the, all these things and actually love in general, that was kind of who he was. So to see that it has that kind of legacy and, and also that it has that visual presence that, you know, when, when he first passed, a lot of people were asking like, what's that going to mean?

And a lot of people brought up is like, it's kind of like the, you know, the, the peace symbol itself and a lot of very other iconic symbols that we're gonna remember [00:15:00] for years to come. And, and a lot of people felt like that's the way that symbol had an impact on people. Um, especially fans of his music. I think the.

On the other side of it, the stuff that haunts us is that, you know, we, we did refine that logo a lot, but I think that's what's interesting when you look at it because there's a lot of unrefined parts of it, and it's a, and and I think that's really purposeful. It was supposed to feel more human, it was supposed to feel more hand touched.

 So, you know, most of my graphic design friends would say, well, couldn't you clean that, clean up those curves and make everything nice and tight? And that, that really wasn't the purpose. And I think that's what's so, you know, so great about it. Um, but also the kind of things as a graphic designer, you wanna, you know, you, you wanna refine that.

But I think it was, you know, there's a reason for that. And it was, it was more of a connection to that human quality.

Radim Malinic: When you were talking about the work and you mentioned that, you know, you guys were sort of 2 million in debt and then sort of you got lots of collaborators that, or, or, or people like con, when you were talking about the work at a time when your company had like 2 million in debt and you had to sort of grow and scale and, you know, grow sideways and up.

 that is a lot of risk taking. That is a lot of growing up really quickly. And you say [00:16:00] that, uh, risk taking is kind of like a part of your everyday work. How do you metabolize it? I mean, sometimes we see risks in different ways, but when you think of something as a risk or when you think something that's daring or when you push yourself, when you push yourself, that takes it out of you.

 So how would you describe a risk in your everyday work? 

Mitch Monson: Um, you know, it's interesting because I think it, if you, if you get this a lot as well, but a lot of people ask me about the risk, but I don't feel like it's that risky. It's kind of, it's kind of the way I've always approached things and I think both in my work and just in, like when you were talking, I know you're a surfer, so for myself, being a backcountry snowboarder and, and doing heli boarding things like that, people would just feel like, that's like a, why would you wanna take that risk?

 But I think just like in my work, like that's when I feel most alive. Like when I, when I have that opportunity to, to do something that's, uh, a little more outta the ordinary or also has that risk component. It, that's, that's when you do feel, you know, most alive, the most excited about what [00:17:00] you're doing.

So I think, you know, that. The great thing is, that's how I feel my creative life has been built. Like, I, I think of it as every time I get that opportunity to say yes to something, to take a chance, uh, it really, you know, that's the kind of thing that keeps me going. And I'm, and I'm just not a risk adverse person whatsoever.

You know, and I, and, and it maybe even starts from like some of my military training when I was in college, is that, you know, you're, when you, when you get into that situation, I think you're very, you're very conscious of the risks, but, and you always put the safety measures in place, but, and you're very calculated about it, but the risk part of it, it, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't affect you in the same way.

And I think, so in my work, I'm always looking at, yeah, what, you know, there's, there's always the things that we need to do that make the cell, but there's a lot of things that allow me just to kind of push out into those areas where, um, risk doesn't feel like risk to me.

Radim Malinic: This is perfect, Mitch, because I've had some, I would say, some daring people on this show. I had some people in a way daring that they are going after the thing they want do, [00:18:00] they're going after that thing. They don't want to regret not doing, they've got their goals, they've got their values, they've got their visions, they've got places they want to reach.

Reach. And to the outsider would be like, Hey, that's pretty risky. And they'd be like, actually, you know what, I'm, I'm pretty risk adverse. I'm like, I am not that daring person. I look on the outside because to get to the certain point, Mr. You, you go, you go step by step. I mean, you don't jump from, you know, from being regional graphic designer to be making stage design for Prince.

You know, that happens gradually. But you said. I'm not risk adverse at all. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: You know, like you're the first person to say like, I love risk. Like, I mean this, this is what I do. Like I'm, this is how I push myself. You know, coupled with the work ethic and that's been inspired by artists for formerly known as Prince. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: It, it's, kind of like, it's interesting because we all have different views on what risk means to us, what fear means to us. And I kind of been sort of prodding that topic for, for the first last few months and weeks. That when you feel, and people tell you like, I'm really, you know, I, I've got this [00:19:00] anxiety, I've got fear of this and fear of that.

When you open yourself up to a conversation with people and you are vulnerable and you say like, Hey, this is how I feel. You often find yourself to be one of the most bravest people in the room because people go through completely different stuff and you kind of find that validation when you tell people, you know, well, how is it for you?

How is it for us? Because. Someone needs to take a risk, someone needs to do this. That thing you don't feel like doing. And I think in your work there's been such, you know, providing with such a illustrious, illustrious career, it, it perfectly matches because, you know, you talk about backcountry snowboarding, that's not for the fainthearted, but it's all about, it's also for the ones who are scared, you know, because you, you're gonna do something that, in my case, with us, you know, as I, as I keep explaining, daring to, to, to, to, to you as a concept like daring is not, I'm not gonna regret not taking that action. 

Mitch Monson: I think that's such a beautiful description. 'cause that that's exactly how I, I see it. And I think that's why I related when I, when I first saw the title to your book, because I think  um, and, it's not that I always tell people, especially when I'm speaking [00:20:00] to students and stuff too, about getting through that fear.

Part of it is that any of that risk, it doesn't mean I'm not scared. It doesn't mean, you know, I think you guy, you and PJ talked about it beautifully in, your podcast with him about that anxiety. Part of it is like, as designers, as creatives, um, you know, everything else, you, you, you have that anxiety, you have that stuff that gets you all wound up.

 But I think, you know, o over the years, I think not doing that is what I would regret the most. And I think there's this really beautiful article I read, um, almost 20. 25 years ago that literally changed my life in Fast Company. And it was about this interviewer that he had done like a thousand interviews with,  uh, senior citizens who'd retired and had really successful careers.

 And I look back at that article all the time, I, I give it to so many people on a regular basis because what it said is like, the biggest regrets were just leaving that music inside of you, you know, and not, taking the risks in, um, creativity and in relationships and not looking back regularly and not [00:21:00] reflecting, you know, at d different times of your life.

So you can kind of assess where things are and, and where you want go. And I think that helped me so much at that time, and it made me take a lot more risks. They're just like, I don't wanna be that person. And what's really funny is, in that article, it says, I don't wanna be at 60 years old regretting that, and.

Like I said, I just, I just, I just had a birthday yesterday, so I've, I've reached that point and, and I don't feel like,  I just don't feel like I have a lot of regrets, and I think that's a, that's a great place to be.

Radim Malinic: I'm very happy for you saying that. Absolutely.  um, as you.

were saying this, and it's as an article for sure, we need to look up, but I remember. Having a personal experience where I saw four words written on a, on a handbag in a really sort of fancy boutique in Chelsea, in London. And that was after I launched my last two books.

I came back from the launch in Toronto. I was tired, I wasn't sure where I was heading, what was going on. I was gonna having time off from, from all of it for, for a day with my boy. And those four words said, no risk, no story. 

Mitch Monson: Oh, I love that. [00:22:00] 

Radim Malinic: And I'm like, you know what? For the first time I was two years younger for the first, I was 40, 45.

And for the first time I was like, oh shit, that's what I'm doing. Because I'm looking back. I, I had my sort of, the moment that you describe it, like I was looking back, I'm like, I'm, some of my decisions are almost made from deathbed, you know, like I want to. Be in the room and say, you know what, I've, I've burned my fingers, I've tasted the wrong stuff, I've done the silly things, I've said the wrong things, but I did them on a journey to go somewhere.

So that, that, you know, the element of like risk taking, no risk, no story is like that story's not gonna right. No right itself when you sit at home in your pajamas, hoping for the best, you know, 

Mitch Monson: What. It's funny 'cause years later, I'm guessing probably about 10 years after I read that article, I was working with a friend of mine, Lauren Campbell,  uh, in Denver, and she had given me this really amazing statement, and it was like, the universe rewards risk. And I wrote that down at that time. And I still, I, I still think of that, you know, at [00:23:00] every kind of decision point in my life.

 And, and I just love that statement because it's so true. And I think everybody gets so, you know, wound up about all the possibilities and all the things that could or might happen because of taking that risk that you're talking about. But I think, you know, that's when you've done it enough, then all of a sudden it's kind of, it's one of those things that you, you know, how important it is.

 And, and I think the biggest thing that I guess you and I can do is make sure people feel like, hey, that's like if you do it once and you start making a practice of it, it's gonna change your life.

Radim Malinic: Absolutely. I mean, when you think about the risk itself, sometimes risk doesn't feel like risk because you're in the middle of a situation and you're like, you have to make a decision left or right. Because I wanna sort of take it through a sort of sort of a short segue to actually that back country snowboarding, because that's not signposted holiday resort, is it?

Like, it's, it's a totally different story because, you know, you, you seriously, you, you jump in off helicopters, you know, to go snowboarding. Um, how does that. Influence your decision making. How does that influence your sort of resilience, you know, uh, toolkit, like how, how, how does the sport influence how you work?

Because [00:24:00] you're not going slow. You're not Exactly.

going on a signposted route, you know? Exactly. Doing in the safest place, you know, which kind of goes hand in hand. So what you describe about your work, so tell us about back, back, 

country, snowboarding. 

Mitch Monson: you asking. I appreciate you asking. well the interesting thing about it is, and I, and I, and I wrote on something. On this particular topic a few months back, and it was just like an athlete's perspective on the creative industry. And I think when, I think it kind of relates to what you're talking about here, and that is, you know, you're, you're taking these risks, you're, you're.

You know, going in helicopters, in, in very remote places where there could be incidents. But the thing is, you, you know, you're so prepared, you're so dialed in, you're very focused, uh, and, and you've kind of calculated a lot of the risk as, as much as you can. Um, but then it's, you know, then it's kind of time to go.

And I think that's very much how we prepare for projects, how we look at creative things and, and how much we prepare and how much we research before we actually do the thing. And, and so that's, that's the whole process of what I love about, um, the snowboarding experience and even, even [00:25:00] being the helicopter, like if they just, if they just brought me up there and then brought me down again, that part of it itself is just so thrilling because, you know, you're just, you're in a place that's Probably the most quiet and remote part of the world and being dropped off there. It's just, it, it's hard to describe the sense of how clear your mind is and how focused your mind is, but it also really clears everything else out. And probably the best way I could describe it is when I first did it, um, I was working here in New York, did the trip, came back, and I think when I came back from that trip, it literally felt like my first day in the office.

Like I had never worked there before. And that, that's how clear, you know, everything felt because  everything had been, you know, all the bad stuff had pushed out and then it was all ready for this new stuff. And I think after that experience, and that was the first time I went to Alaska, is that gave me the motivation.

I was like, I have to do this every year. And not that I, it always has to be a backcountry experience. There's a lot of other riding I'm doing, but there's always has to be some of those bigger [00:26:00] adventures in places. Like, you know, the Arctic Circle where we went. You know, this past year in Sweden or in Iceland where it's just, it, different, it's a different form of, um, of an experience, but it's the kind of thing that just, again, kind of to that alive feeling that we were talking about earlier is that's when you feel the most alive.

Taking that kind of risk, but also knowing, you know, you've really, you've really prepared at the same time.

Radim Malinic: As you were describing this so beautifully, I was thinking about one word and that word was silent. 

Mitch Monson: Mm-hmm. 

Radim Malinic: Like when you, when you're sort of at the mountaintop. Obviously it's windy, but in some way it's silence. And, and, and it reminded me of a music video by, you might have by Well, reminded me of a music video by artist called Stacker Bow, uh, who's also a very famous music director.

Um, he made Chernobyl in the end, I mean his play. Let me, let me, let me get it right. Sobo, 'cause he's a director. 

Mitch Monson: I gotta look it up for sure. 

Radim Malinic: Johan Rang. Have you heard of Johan Rank? Uh, he did lots of stuff with Madonna. So lemme go back to this. So as you describe in all of this, I'm thinking of one word and that's silence. 'cause obviously it's quite windy up top.

 But it was reminding me also of, of a music video for track or Grand for track called Great Blino by Stack Abo. And it's a kind of like a silly. Doug com like Doug humor, comedy video of like really famous sort of skier who's sort of wakes up with a mistress or whatever, takes a Volvo up the mountain top does, has got like a sort of speed helmet that you know that.

that TT trial did.

Time trial, our cyclists have. But what it, what, the reason why it reminded me of it is because the video and the music stops in the middle [00:27:00] and it's just his breath for a few seconds, you got a bit of a wind and it's, it's, like 1997 or 96, you know, this is, and, and to send you a link to this, but it's like you are at one with yourself, one with the nature, with the snow.

And it's like when you think about it, that's also in my way, sort of this transcending way of creativity because you can buy into the noise, you can buy into everything that's around you, or you can actually be there getting ready for that.

run going. This is about me. I'm uncomfortable for my moves and how I do it.

So would you say silence is part of this? 

Mitch Monson: Oh, it's, yeah, it's a perfect description. Uh, and I think it's, it's, also that. That point of the noise that you're talking about is like, I think that's where like, that's my reset, right? Is that silence being somewhere maybe nobody's ever even been on that part of the mountain or has been down that part of that face and that there's just something about that that brings you so [00:28:00] close to nature but is also such a mental reset that I think that's, that's why I experienced what I, I told you that first Alaska trip.

And I think that's, that's one of those things I, I haven't really found anything else that does that big of a, kind of a mental flush of the entire system. And um, I think it's really hard for us to find that because, you know, and, and I know a lot of people go on vacation just to totally relax and just read and be in a beach and all those kind of things.

 And that's on one scale and my scale is on the other side for sure. Like that, that active, um, engagement and exploration has just been a thing that really helps me reset. Really just get completely refueled to do new work. Like that's where I get all my energy. Um, just to dive back in.

Radim Malinic: It's been, it's been well documented that, you know, people in your position and, you know, higher power CEOs and that kind of stuff, they can't lie by the Beach River book, you know, the 45 degree heat. Uh, no, because it, there is something like mostly dead. There is, there is a there lot going [00:29:00] on, on a daily basis and that, as you say, that, that doesn't get flushed out by just, you know, the new Matt Hague novel or something.

You know, it's just like, it, it, it, it's become, it's a hard reset and that makes such a good sense because. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: We make assumptions, but this is The, reality of it. 

Mitch Monson: the the other thing about it that is interesting, I, it kind of reminds me a little bit of Paradiso too because like our experience there when, when we connected is that, you know, you, you just get a. When all of a sudden you get this whole new group of people that are just really, you know, high profile, high performers, successful kind of people.

Like, that just doesn't happen that often where you get, um, a group of people together like that. And I think that's the other thing about doing these kind of trips is like, the type of people that do that kind of backcountry work is that you know, they're all very physically fit.

They're very mentally fit. Usually they're pretty successful in whatever business they've done. They're also very social, you know, and they, and they wanna connect. So it's interesting because besides all of the, the benefits that I was talking about, it's a lot of business relationships out of those particular [00:30:00] experiences too.

And just people that I've been connected to that they just, you know, they're kind of your people, they think and feel the same way. Um, so there's definitely other things besides just the, uh, the reset part of it that I really love. Great.

Radim Malinic: It makes perfect sense. Absolutely. Perfect sense. Because you personally, you bring people together yourself because you work with, uh, assembly obviously you, you, you got a program assembly. You also have got a mentorship program, which, you know, works with un unrepresented, uh, creatives with, you know, put, puts them together with the top industry players.

But you mentioned bringing people together and. I think we go through this amazing sort of 360 where we had real communities. I mean, I wasn't in them because I was too young before I was properly, you know, a designer. And there was some of it, uh, you know, a decade or so ago, or two decades ago. But then we all sort of started hanging out online and thinking like, we've got this online community.

Then we all disheartened about it, and I'm like, yeah, we need to go back and see people in real life. Like, we need to go back in and see them in person [00:31:00] because magic happens. That cognitive cross pollination, like those ideas spreading and just having that reassurance that, you know, the person that might be typing the answer behind LinkedIn message is like, okay, they, they, I get seen.

But yeah, putting people together, I mean, must be a rewarding feeling for you to actually be, you know, helping your industry, especially, you know, people on your side of the pond be seen, be heard, reassured, and give them what I call a sabbatical from their life, at least for hours, you know? 

Mitch Monson: Well, I think, you know, that's the, and, and I know you're really great at that, is it's just being present wherever you can to have those experiences and to really put yourself out there to,  uh, you know, make a point of doing it. And, and it's, it's, interesting. I had this thing come up the other day where, uh, a younger professional had asked me about like, Hey, I, I really want to, I really wanna do this thing, but the thing is, it's kind of expensive.

My company won't do it for me. And it, and I just heard those words and I just said, just stop a second. Like, what's the purpose of this? What is the purpose thing? And why do you wanna go? [00:32:00] And they told me very passionately what that was. And I was, and the only thing I said, don't you wanna invest in yourself?

Like, isn't that the most important thing? And, and I really didn't have to have much more of a conversation. They're just like, yeah, I just need to do this. I'm gonna pay for it. I'm gonna take that time off. I'm gonna go and I'm just gonna make it happen. And that was a younger me, like that was, I didn't wait for permission.

I think you and PJ were talking about that too, in your podcast about permission. It was like you just weren't asking for permission. It was like, I'm just gonna go, this is important. This is invested in myself. And I think that's, that's that community. Sensibility of like, you, you need to put yourself out there and you need to find ways to do it, even if there are other barriers to, you know, taking that time or making that trip.

But, uh, my friend Joel Pilger always talks about experts travel. And I think that's the other part of it is like the more, the more you're out there and the more you're seeing more people you're connecting with, uh, it's, it only brings goodness like, it, it's both in your personal relationships, but I think also professionally in what we [00:33:00] do, like, that's how it all happens.

 And I think our goal with something like Assembly is just to make that a very low barrier of entry. Like we just, we make that happen with, with sponsoring studios so that we can just include a lot of people in that experience and get them connected. And I, I think we just need that more than ever now.

Radim Malinic: Ab I mean, there's so much value in this, like investing in yourself. 

Mitch Monson: Mm-hmm.

Radim Malinic: It can feel scary. It can feel like, am I ever ready to do this? But when, when you have, when people have time sort of to, to, to overthink this, you know, they, they get to see too many sides of what That potential risk could be or what, what might be hiding behind, you know, going for the reward.

Because I think there's a beautiful naivety in the US a sort of a fellow self, not self, we call it fellow self telegraphic designer. You know, you were not waiting to be ready. You know, you would, you're like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna start. And I think that sort of philosophy for life, I think it is for life because.

There's a beauty in not knowing. It hurts not knowing sometimes because you make all the mistakes, [00:34:00] but it's that, it's that idea like, I can't wait. Obviously, I, I shouldn't wait for someone to say, you can do this. Because I've read someone on, on LinkedIn and I, I'm like, I'm, LinkedIn is myself of self harm, you know?

And, and, and, and it's a sort of inappropriate joke because I read someone's, I, I read quite a few posts and I'm going, I could reply to most of these things potentially with a valuable feedback, but I don't wanna be this sort of cantankerous, you know, not even middle aged properly, but cantankerous man going, why, why this, why that?

And I think this post was saying like, oh, artists don't need inspiration. They just need permission to create, they just need this. And I'm like. Fuck off. Like they don't need permission to create, like they actually need inspiration. They need to be shown that whatever they wanna do does work?

To inspire someone is to show them, Hey, I've gone on this path.

I've gone maybe 15 miles. You can go 17. You can do this. Like, you can follow my lead. You can go with this. Because there are overlapping themes of like creative athletes that are like we, if, if you see your career as as, as something which is so wholesome and layered and intricate, ' cause that's what creative, creative careers are, then you realize that it, it, there's a sort of movement towards [00:35:00] you do and therefore waiting for one part to be unlocked or have somebody else to unlock it for you, you'll never get there because the, that athlete itself will stand at that starting line for themselves because they want to get to the other side as fast as possible. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah. One actually, what I love about you're talking about is is I think on that, on that permission side of things is that, uh, being, being self-taught or just not having so much formal education, it also means you're asking a lot more questions. You know, and I, and I'm always that person, like, I, I'm not the person gonna ask for directions to get somewhere or, or to get a recommendation.

Something like, there's just, there's no embarrassment in that, I guess. Or, or, or fear of like, I'm, I'm gonna be an idiot is like. I always wanna be that person in the room. And I think even now when I think of the people that I work with is like, I'm not the smartest person in the room and that's exactly where I wanna be.

Like, I wanna be around people that are kind of challenging me and that I feel that I can ask those questions because, um, because I think like it's easier for [00:36:00] me to break the rules because of it, because I don't know the rules. And I think that's, that, that, I thought for sure for years that was a huge hindrance and that was gonna hold me back.

And I realized that was actually a superpower is I didn't, I didn't have to be, you know, it's, it's probably why the David Carson's the world where big inspirations for me because I didn't, I didn't know much about grids. You know, I didn't really understand how all that work unless I was, you know, reinterpreting I saw something from, you know, another, uh, fine artist or designer.

 But I think that's, you know, that's been kind of a blessing going forward because I, I feel maybe to your risk question too, is it, it's also why it doesn't feel as risky to me because, um, I wanna learn that stuff. I, you know, I wanna think like a student all the time, and that's just kind of your, your, your way of living.

Radim Malinic: A list of your influences when I see them. Now it all makes sense. David Zaha Hadid, never Brody and Tristan Eaton, like they're all known for doing whatever hell they wanted to do. Uh, in Zaha case, like she was way ahead of the curve because, you know, the technology and, and, and, and, and, manufacture wasn't there to make her buildings at the time where she was ready with, with whatever she was creating.

And I think I like that your influences are messy, [00:37:00] opinionated, you know, uh, uh, and, and you say they're breaking the rules. And it's one of the topics I've been pondering in my head for the last, for the last while, because being in an industry where now we see articles, again, avoid LinkedIn if you can now for like, like, the agencies claim, like, oh, we are different.

We are different at this, or we do this different, or we break all the rules and we do this. And I'm like. If you have to tell everyone that you're doing something differently or if you have to tell like about breaking the rules, maybe you're not doing it right. Because when you talk about rules, it's like, I am where I'm going wherever I want to go.

Like you, you, you verbalize it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you even study the rules. Like you, you just sort of went wherever you wanted to do and you did have things made, made you feel, you know, something inside. Like, you know, the express, you were, you were following your expression. And that, you know, having, having spoken extensively to David Carson over the last, you know, few, few months and, and you know, actually years, it's that free.

It's that free will, like, like, he's not even aware of rules, you know, he's just like, I'm David Carson. This is what I do, and you have to give it to him, like to be David Carson for life. Like, 

Mitch Monson:  Yeah. and and I think the other thing that's interesting about that for me is like that. You know, it's that huge full circle moment, which for me is amazing, is like, that's always been my influence. I, you know, I've always been inspired by things that I read in, in the print originally and all this visual work in re and all of that kind of thing.

 But, you know, I think it's, we're so fortunate that now, all these years later, you know, um, being able to speak together and, and be at, uh, events together is just really incredible Because, you know, as they always say, do, is it great to meet your heroes? And I think in that case it really is like I've, um, being able to get to know him and then I have a speaking engagement coming up with him this fall, which is just exciting to me because for all the things that you just mentioned, you know, It gives me some kind of, uh, satisfaction of like, okay, I, like, guess I could do this. And, and you know, I wouldn't have guessed at this point in my career that I would've done those things, but there's a lot I owe to that originally inspiration from him.

Radim Malinic: I'm glad you used the word original inspiration because having looked through your work, and especially so some of your recent work with the Olympics in Tokyo and Paris. That's a tricky work to get right, because you're trying to please a lot of people, even though you don't want to please a lot of people, but you really sourced and we are talking about rules, you know, and talking about risks when you're telling the truth.

You can tell the truth in any way you want. You can, you can, you can make it impressive, engaging you because the way that you've done it for both of those programs, and I need to say, Mr. Bo, you did, you actually did the, the broadcast identity for the American channels doing, um, the, [00:38:00] the broadcast, not necessarily not the main Olympics logos, but I like what you guys did with both of the, um, both of the events when you really looked at the, the local symbolism, the local ideas to sort of the, the, the philosophies and, and created these engaging identities that I believe won Emmys.

Is that right? 

Mitch Monson: Yeah, yeah, actually really fortunate for, uh, clients at NBC, they won for,  um, not just the brand design of what we did for Paris, but I think like 10 other awards at the Emmys this year. So they did, they did, really well. I mean, they, they really, you know, I, I think it's, uh, just in the Olympics in general, it it kind of a rebirth for them as far as, uh, what the Olympic broadcast now mean in the States.

And I think, you know, as you know, it's you know, coming to LA in 28. So I think that's the other thing is there's just so much momentum behind it now, but, uh, but it's, yeah, it's great to see them get recognition because, you know, it's a monumental task getting through something like, especially the summer games.

Radim Malinic: Hmm. Well, whose idea was it to get Snoop Doc involved? 

Mitch Monson: You know, I wish I, I wish I knew that question, but, you know, it's another thing being such a fan [00:39:00] and then, you know, just seeing him wear the NBC logo or where the Paris logo in ways, like, it's just, I didn't get better for me than him sitting next to Martha Stewart. Like, that probably was probably one of my favorite parts of the entire, um, event.

But it's, uh, you know, or Beyonce being part of it, like those are, you know, again, it kind of goes back to the Prince thing is you don't know where your things are gonna go. And just to see it in, in the presence of all that type of thing is, is just kind of crazy.

Radim Malinic: So the young Mitch who's discovering graphic design and teaching himself how to press buttons, did you ever imagine what could happen when you follow your journey? Because your career is, I mean, full of amazing stories, amazing designs, amazing collaborations, achievements. Did you ever feel that you could do some of this?

Or did it Well because, because some, because some people like want to be celebrated because sometimes, you know, when you've got your idols, they're like, I'm gonna be as good as that person. But in your case, how did you see it? Because, I mean, I had Oliver Jeff recently on a show and he said, you know, be a river.

Don't be a rock. Like, don't go, go around obstacles, don't be stubborn. Go where it takes you. And I feel like that's a perfect sort of almost parallel to your back. No, Um.

I'm gonna say backyard snowboarding. Lemme just get it right. Uh, it's a per, it's a perfect parallel to your backcountry snowboarding, you know, it's just, you go where you need to go, you need to make those decisions, and then you get there. 

Mitch Monson: Well, I 

Radim Malinic: So how does  uh, the young mate see the old Mitch now and

go, Hey. 

Mitch Monson: yeah, well I think, you know, it's interesting 'cause the young Mitch was, you know, again, coming from something like Naval, [00:40:00] ROTC and, and all this, a lot of really formality and, and, um, predictability. And what I was doing to getting into this creative career is, you know, two very different things. So I think at that point in time I was just, I was just really inspired by my siblings.

You know, my siblings were both very artistic, so I think I saw in them that there was this potential to do something different because, you know, you can't really describe an artistic career to your parents or really anybody of what that's going to be. But I think because I had such great support from my parents, even they even.

Invested in my first company, um, to get us off the ground. And obviously if they hadn't, I never would've done the print stuff, et cetera. So I think I just always had a confidence from them that I could do something. I, I could do something like this, but I,  you know, the whole idea of not being able to tell, you know, how all this connects until you look back on it, is I think, the most magical thing now because, you know, the young Mitch wouldn't have seen any of this.

I think I just knew that I had to kind of stay present in the moment. I had to really, you know, I had a great work ethic [00:41:00] and I just knew I could, you know, as long as I could be flexible, like you were talking about, I could be flexible and I could roll with things that I could figure this out. And um, and I think the biggest thing Julia Huffman spoke at, um, off Barcelona, and one thing she brought up, which was very controversial with a lot of friends I was sitting with is she goes, you have to move.

And that's gonna be, it's gonna be a really hard thing for some people, but like, I believe that's, uh, an essential ingredient in success in especially in this business. And I couldn't agree more. And I've, I obviously I've, I've thought of it, but I've never heard of that at a conference before. And I was just so like, oh my God.

That's it. That's the other thing is I was never at a point when I was younger where I was concerned about being in this state or being in this industry in a particular location. Like I really wanted to explore. And I definitely get that from my parents too, of just, you know, adventure and exploration.

So I've moved a lot in my career too. So I think the younger Mitch might not have seen all of these changes, but I was definitely, I was definitely malleable in that way.[00:42:00] 

Radim Malinic: It's great to hear that your parents were integral part of your artistic journey. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah, which, which is more interesting because one was, one was a teacher's aid and another one was a tax accountant for the railroad. So you wouldn't, you wouldn't put them in a, in an artistic kind of bubble. But, but my dad was really into photography and shooting super eight of like, everything. And I think there, there was definitely threads of their, um, creative spirit and, and they were very social and they were very like.

Probably the best parties in the neighborhood for sure. But so they were very expressive, but they just, they didn't have the type of jobs or careers that would fit in, in your or my circle. But I think, um, it's, it's very satisfying because I think because they invested in my company early on, like they got to experience that whole thing in a very different way.

And, and I think they were never business owners either. So having kind of a business ownership and seeing what this crazy creative world is like, uh, was really, [00:43:00] was really a great thing to give back to them.

Radim Malinic: That's amazing because you can actually hear the parallels between what they did, throwing the best parties on the street, and that's what you do now. You know, you bring people together, that's what you do. And yeah, I think that's that.

social aspect, it's, it's invaluable. Absolutely invaluable. I think. I love.

The fact when, uh, you mentioned what siblings you had, sort of artistic siblings. I'm like, well, lemme make a pun. Was there a li, was there a rivalry between your siblings? 

Mitch Monson: Always right.

Radim Malinic: Where, where did they end up? What did, what did they do? What did your siblings do? I. 

Mitch Monson: Um, Um, so actually my, uh, my sister is a fabric artist, so she's, she's made apparel pretty much her whole career. And my brother is, uh, he works in construction, but also is a fine artist and, uh, a painter. So, you know, they definitely, they definitely kept those worlds active in the creative space. And I think, um, you know, uh, it, it's so interesting how you would in some cases, you know, child actors follow their acting parents, but in our case, it wasn't, it [00:44:00] wasn't that, but there was a thread of, I think it was all the support as well as the, uh, the opportunity of like, you have to get out and explore that.

I mean, it's the same reason I'm getting out of helicopters for sure.

Radim Malinic: I mean, yeah, I mean,

in your bio and, and things that you've done, there's so many interesting points because not only, you're pretty much the only person I will ever know who's worked with Prince, you're also the only person who's had military background and being in charge of a nuclear submarine. I mean, 

that doesn't happen in, you know, how do we add those two together?

But you say that, you know, through your military background as a leader, obviously, that the expression leaders eat last is very much was being sort of instilled not instantly in you throughout the whole, your career. Because leadership, some people strive for it, some people happened. To lead because that's where they are in their career.

How was leadership for you? Because did you feel like you had, I'm not gonna say unfair advantage, but a fair advantage because you've seen things where [00:45:00] shit doesn't slide. You're in a situation where you have to make hard choices, not, not even talking about lot of snowboarding. Like you can sort of turn left, right?

Something's gonna come up, but obviously in military it's hard choices. So the leadership and that skillset, how did that aided your career per se? 

Mitch Monson: Uh, it's made a huge difference and I think, you know, and I'm sure you've heard Simon Sinek talk about that particular line too, because it's really, his research with the military has informed a lot of, you know, what he preaches and, and what he practices. And I think it's so true because it kind of, it prepares you to be, you know, calculated, be prepared, all of those type of things.

But I think the, the leadership part of it, you know, when. I, I was always even as a partner. Now I've been a partner in a couple different companies before coming to Sibling, and that's always been about, I've been the HR part of the company in a lot of cases, and that's because, you know, I understand all the business components of what we need to do, but I think that the personality side of the business and the emotional [00:46:00] side of the business is where the leadership stuff is, I think the toughest in a lot of cases.

And so you have to get good at it, but you also have to put yourself second. And I think for a lot of leaders and a lot of owners in our industry, it's hard to do that. Like everybody feels like it should get easier or I should have less to do, or I should have less responsibility. And unfortunately as a business owner, it's the opposite direction is, it always means more of all of those things.

Um, and especially with dealing with people. It even gets thicker. So I think I've always, I've always leaned into that. I enjoy that part of it. Not everybody does, but you know, as an owner, it's, and as a leader, it's essential and you have to put your people first. You work for them. It's like a very different, you know, prospect in a lot of other owners' minds.

Radim Malinic: There's a solace when I sometimes ask people like, Hey, so how did you deal with your new role as a leader and your leadership? And most people say very badly, 

and sometimes it is [00:47:00] really, it's a sum of many paths because I happen to lead in a. You know, you, you, I, I can't, I can't put my hand up to say that I was leading.

Well, you know, you, you, you're doing your best because you're spinning a lot more. Because as you said, there's always more to do. There's always more to manage. You think that the more people I would have, the more freedom I will get. Maybe, you know, will have a little sabbatical from my life for a bit, and you find yourself having more conversation, more feedback session, more of everything, and you're like, what did I sign up to because I'm not doing anything you know, and you hear people going home, like you, you hear people honestly talking on this podcast going, I wasn't, I wasn't very nice person to be around because I just, you know, put too much on my plate and scaling back.

The whole thing sometimes makes sense because, you know, sometimes you just feel trapped in a way that obviously this is, this is what I've created. Sometimes you are the loneliest person up top because you feel like you have to have answers to everything. Your name's on the door, you're like, oh shit, what do we do?

I like that you used the word empathy, that you talked about, the fact that, you know, you really need to be on the human side of all of this, because 

Mitch Monson: Yep.

Radim Malinic: that's where things really matter. 

Mitch Monson: Yeah. And I think, you know, it's interesting 'cause I, I really appreciated in my early conversations with the two founders at sibling and like, why would I be a fit here? Like, what would my role be and what would be different? And we talk so much about that, uh, people side of the business and that human side of the business and some of the things that they were trying to, um, you know, get better control of and find a more interesting influence.

And I think that, you know, really excited me and that's, you know, was one of the reasons I was definitely here. But I think when it comes to leadership and team stuff, it's also, it's also about kindness. So I think it's finding. Finding that layer of kindness and, and, you know, we can't have bad days, which I, you know, as an owner, you understand, is that I think that and the kindness factor really are important.

And also putting your team first and giving [00:48:00] them those accolades and being able to celebrate wins and like all those things that. Are those more human components to what we do every day, as opposed to just getting the work done. It's, um, you know, I, I love focusing on that stuff, but I think it's kind of part of my role here too, to make sure I'm, I'm kind of an advocate for that as well, because as an owner, I know you get so busy with all of the other things.

There's so many responsibilities that you need to have that. You know, other person on your shoulder reminding you of like, Hey, this is, important, or this person is important, or this moment is important. And I think, um, you know, the difference between working for yourself and working for somebody else.

 it's been a big change for me, but I, I love now being more of an entrepreneur than an entrepreneur where I can, I can, see the things that the owners see and feel and, and experience, but being able to help facilitate and do things, um, you know, a bit differently, uh, is, is really a, a great experience now.

And I think it's also why we hire, we actually hire a lot of business owners as well. And I think because they have a [00:49:00] different perspective on the experience and, and how to run teams and, and that's, that's what I really like about being on the other side of it. I don't think, I'll never be an owner again, but I would never trade any of that as well.

Radim Malinic: Beautifully well.

said. Um, 'cause I'm reading your, reading your, coolest creative party, you know, uh, client list, as you would say. And it's everyone. It's everyone that you can think of, especially in entertainment and tech and everywhere. And you've built visual words for 15 Marvel films and six Olympic games.

Sorry. You've built visual words for 15 Marvel films and six Olympic games and counting. When you look back at your career. And I hope that answer is yes. Did you feel like you had time to focus and, and enjoy and, and take it all in what you were creating? Because sometimes we just flash through these projects.

It's more, it's more of a battlefield. You know, you try to just to get your troops in and out of a battle, get it done, hope you do the best, and then go, what just happened? Oh wait, there's another one. Go. 

Mitch Monson: No, you know, I, I love that you asked that question 'cause it's so critical and I [00:50:00] think it goes back to when I, I was talking about that article I read on that interviewer is about being reflective, is that I think, you know, from that point forward and it, and it, I didn't have a good understanding of that before when I had my company for 10 years.

 But I think I really had the appreciation of that reflective quality and making sure, you know, you're stopping and, and taking that stuff in and taking in those moments. And it was interesting because I can think of really specific times where I did that too, of like being at this big shop in LA when I first moved to Hollywood and was working for Three Ring Circus and I was actually working for some people that I saw as like mentors of mine and heroes in the industry.

And I'm just, I'm there at like one in the morning. Standing in, standing in their office, you know, putting the deck on the table or whatever, and just standing there going, wow, this is like, there's no way this was possible. This wasn't me. This wasn't me 10 years ago. And, and I just, I definitely, I have a lot of those times where I definitely can just [00:51:00] pinpoint to the moment of what it was like when I did this or when I was here, or I got to meet and experience this artist or be part of the Olympics for the first time, or, you know, all of those things.

Like, I, I really have strong mental pictures and my friends always joke because I, I shoot way too many pictures. I document everything, which is, uh, something I got from my dad. That, that part of it helps me remember those points as well. Like, I, I document all that stuff because the, I think it's just really important.

Those are, that's how you get not only those milestones remembered, but it really helps you look forward as well.

Radim Malinic: You actually reminded me of something from Paradiso. As you said, I take a lot of pictures because before we even got to speak of a sudden with Ashkenazi outside the hotel of after the first or second day of Paradiso. Hey, let me take a picture. And I'm like, Hey, whoever you are. And then I, I looked at those pictures, let's say two or three weeks later and I was like, Oh that's me and Maria Ashkenazi.

I've kind of forgotten about that moment [00:52:00] because obviously was this condensed sort of experience of life that just like so much happening so many days, which was like a lifetime, you know, in five days. And I'm like, oh, I'm really thankful for this picture because it reminded me of a very happy moment and you were there.

So thank you for that. And then it, it brings it back to obviously your dad shooting on, on Super eight and doing this. And I just love discovering these dots where they all just join up in the perfect succession and you know, like we are some form of a sort of version of our parents, of our sort of predecessors.

Like how or one test shall I say, and how does it all add up? Because we sort of carry that.

part, those particles of our, of their DNA. And we make something new out of this. And it just creates these, well, in your case, incredible careers,  um, which are filled with empathy, I think, which is no cur curiosity and empathy.

Something that you can't buy. And, you know, it shows and, and I really treasure you what you do because yeah, you making positive impact. You've created amazing work and you know, there's so much more [00:53:00] to do that I'm so excited to see what you're gonna come up with. 

Mitch Monson: Oh, I so appreciate that. Well, it was, it was such a great moment because I was thinking about that today was just when I first met you was walking out of the hotel and it was like, first of all, I wanted to meet these two people, but I have to get a picture because it was just, it was such a grand moment, you two sitting there.

And, um, but it's, but it, it's interesting because, and I'm sure you've seen the movie Memento, but I kind of feel like that that is the way that I, you know, record and remind myself of those things. And I think, um, not everybody, you know. Does it in the same way, but I think I have other friends that have some, some, similar documentary, uh, habits like that.

But I think it's really like that does, to your point about, you know, embracing the moment, but also celebrating the moment, is that I also do that for our teams and for the people I work with. And I know at times, like, I'm sure he's documented that somewhere. We, we have it somewhere,  but, but we all look back at that together and it's always that feeling of like, wow, we, we did that together and this is, this is a point that we, you know, have to all connect with.

And it's, you know, for me, [00:54:00] photos, photography, and even our creative work are all of those things.

Radim Malinic: It makes me think of silence again. It makes me think of that moment. It's just that snapshot when you actually, when you see it, it's silent, but it reminds you of everything that was there. So, Mitch, thank you very much for making us stay on. Well, thank you very much for making us think about silence and risk and journeys that.

we could have never imagined. 

Mitch Monson: I

 thank you. It was really enjoyable and I think, uh, you know, I'm, and I'm super excited to, to dive into your book too because again, that title just totally is something I can relate to and I think a lot of people will be able to relate to.

Radim Malinic: While it's coming, you'll, you'll read it very soon,  you'll, so thank you. 

Mitch Monson: I love it.  Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes. So please get in touch via the email, in the show notes or [00:55:00] social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me. Rad Malid.

The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.