Spark and Hustle

The AI Hustle: Product, Leadership & Entrepreneurship in Action with Bhavesh Vaghela

• Karina Rojo • Season 2 • Episode 14

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Are you juggling multiple passions while striving for success in your career? Join us for a compelling episode of Spark and Hustle, where we delve into the inspiring journey of Bhavesh, a seasoned product leader who seamlessly blends his extensive expertise in digital transformation, AI, and personal branding with his multifaceted interests. With over two decades of experience, Bhavesh shares invaluable lessons learned throughout his career, from the challenges of managing imposter syndrome to the practical strategies he employs to maintain a fulfilling work-life balance.

The conversation reveals not only Bhavesh's career evolution from defense to product leadership but also the significance of understanding the intersection between technology and people. Bhavesh discusses how this intersection shapes the future of AI and product leadership. Prepare to be inspired by his insights on overcoming self-doubt and embracing failure as a stepping stone to success. Listeners learn practical tips for aspiring product leaders, including the importance of real-world experience combined with continuous learning.

Bhavesh emphasizes the importance of cultivating a strong personal brand to open doors and create opportunities in your career, transforming passion into impact. Throughout the episode, he reflects on time optimization and prioritization, demonstrating how to effectively manage commitments to family and personal projects.

For anyone eager to excel in a dynamic world, this episode serves as a reminder that it is possible to balance diverse interests and ambitions while leaving a meaningful mark in your field. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation filled with practical insights to spark your own hustle! Encourage engagement by subscribing, leaving a review, and connecting with us on social media.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back to Spark and Hustle, the podcast, where we dive into the journeys of ambitious professionals, entrepreneurs and creatives who are making waves in their industries. I'm your host, karina, and today I'm thrilled to welcome a guest who truly embodies what it means to be a multi-passionate leader and innovator. Joining me today is Mavesh, a seasoned product leader with over two decades of experience in digital transformation, ai and product-led growth. Not only he has super-headed game-changing initiatives in the tech world, but he's also successfully balanced being an SVP, pursuing an MBA, growing his personal brand, running a food blog and podcast and now funding a startup, all while managing family time. In this episode, we'll uncover Babash's career journey, his thoughts on the future of AI and product leadership, and also how he juggles so many passions while staying at the top of his game. You won't want to miss this conversation. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1:

Hello, welcome to Spark and Hustle, the podcast that ignites your inspiration and fuels your hustle in the dynamic worlds of career and entrepreneurship. I'm your host, karina, a marketing junkie on a journey of exploration, conversation and empowerment. In each episode, we dive deep into the stories of professionals, entrepreneurs and thought leaders, discover the spark that ignites their journeys and the hustle that propels them to success. Whether you're navigating the corporate ladder or building your empire, follow Sparking Hustle for inspiration, practical advice and why not? Occasional humor. Get ready to spark your ambitions and elevate your hustle game. We believe in the power of connection. Join our community on Spotify, itunes and Instagram to share your experiences, learn from others and become part of a supportive of my work of dreamers and doers. I am honored to have you here and being able to learn all these insights and knowledge from you and pick up your brain a little bit. Thank you so much for being here. If we can start with you introducing yourself, please.

Speaker 2:

Hi, karina, it's a pleasure to be here. So, bavesh Vigela, I'm the SVP of products and innovation at Collinson. To give you a kind of an overview of me, I started my career in defense guided weapons, air-to-air missiles, things that go boom. From there I moved into consultancy, then into banking. From banking I moved into cybersecurity and startups and now I'm in travel tech. So you know a varied experience throughout my life, but there is a common thread and that's all to do with launching From missile launching to launching products. I've always been in the forefront of launching products, either from one to scale or zero to one, and it's a really exciting area because when you see someone using something that you've spent a lot of time creating, there's a lot of endorphins and a lot of pleasure from seeing your products making a difference in society.

Speaker 1:

Your career trajectory is incredible. Tell us what initially drew you into the world of product and AI.

Speaker 2:

So for me, products wasn't a thing when I was in my career initially. But I quickly realized, once I'd finished my degree in computer science and a master's in product and technology and innovation, that my career trajectory wasn't in coding. I did enjoy the logical challenge of coding and I think I could still code if I had to, but what I really enjoyed was intersecting between people, technology and that's where product really sits is making sure you understand technology, the applications of technology and then how people need to use that technology. And that's basically the product world. You've got a problem to solve and that problem you solve is through understanding the person, people, psychology, what they need, solving what's the strategic intent and then using technologies to solve it.

Speaker 2:

And then AI very recently I guess, but probably about five years ago, I started my AI journey working for a startup. In the startup I looked after the intelligence which looked at machine learning specifically, not Gen AI. At the time it wasn't a thing. So how do we identify a customer through thousands and thousands of data sets and how do we build up machine learning models that can really help us do that? So it piques my interest because actually this is the engine or the new electricity. That is going to really drive the change of technology. And then now more in AI. From GenAI it's going to revolutionize that product value chain.

Speaker 2:

So just finished my MBA, which we will talk about later. My MBA's focus and dissertation was on how AI disrupts the full value chain, across ideation all the way through to post-launch optimization, and how you can use AI in all the intersections. And really my findings were it can be used everywhere and it's going to be a very disruptive force going forward. So do two things head in the sand or actually use it and utilize it to multiply the value you can bring to the world.

Speaker 1:

And with all of this, you've led major transformations at multiple organizations. What's the biggest lesson you learned about innovation and leadership?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've had the privilege of leading lots of. You know, my normal de facto is I go into an organization there's a lot of chaos and there's very little outcomes and then looking to try and transform them into really thinking about not just innovation but really thinking about what's the impact and outcomes that can be produced. My biggest learning isn't around frameworks, isn't around using design thinking. These are all frameworks that really help shape and give structure to some of the noise. But my biggest learning is and it's a simple one it's the people. And when I talk about people, it's having that clarity from a leadership perspective where you're really clear on what the outcome is you're trying to achieve. What's the vision, what's your mission, what is the thing that people are going to be able to go? Yes, that's what you're trying to achieve. What's the vision, what's your mission, what is the thing that people are going to be able to go? Yes, that's what we're trying to do, and it's not as easy as just writing a mission statement.

Speaker 2:

You know, when you think about the mission, the vision really comes from real, true understanding or context of the business, the strategic problem or the strategic tension and how you're going to solve that. And so first you need to get people on board. But also, the other thing is some people may not have the. They may have the capacity, but maybe not have the capability. So then there's two things you need to do there.

Speaker 2:

One is either training, and then people are able to learn and come with you on the journey, or it's around bringing in other people who can raise the bar. And so other people coming in who understand what you're doing, understand what you're trying to achieve, means that you can then really raise the bar. And then time is one of those things that's super precious, and so when you go into organizations that have got multi-year transformation projects that are running for five, six, 10 years, that's a red flag. What you're trying to do is transform and have highest impact each and every day and each and every release, if you're thinking about a product, and that only comes from that right mindset from your team and from the wider organization. So you know, having that thinking of a burning platform tomorrow, you know there is no tomorrow to quote Rocky III, to quote Rocky III, but there is no tomorrow to quote rocky three um, to call rocky three, but there is no tomorrow.

Speaker 1:

So, really focused on what can we do now, here and now, to really make an impact really helps drive transformation in the right way, but at pace and really critical to be aligned and have that mission and vision very clear from the top, because some of us at the bottom can also sense and feel when things aren't in order or straight.

Speaker 2:

Um, thank you for sharing that and just an example is there is when mommy and daddy are fighting. All the kids know about it, right right. When there's strategic tension at the leadership level, everyone can sense. They don't even need to see there's a fallout. They'll understand from microaggressions, from words people use. That leadership shadow then means that you get a siloed working in the wider organization. So if you're not aligned at the top, if it's dysfunctional at the top, then it means it's dysfunctional all the way through, because the leadership shadow then follows through into your directs.

Speaker 1:

Yes, changing the topic a little bit, focusing on imposter syndrome. Many professionals struggle with imposter syndrome when stepping into bigger roles. Did you ever experience this and how did you overcome?

Speaker 2:

So imposter syndrome happens to everyone. It happens to everyone. You could be an elite sport person or you can be someone who's done a very senior role for many, many years. Where imposter syndrome comes from is it's your brain thinking something's new and then having that doubt within yourself. Having doubt is a good feedback signal. So I've had imposter syndrome. I think everyone's had imposter syndrome. Some people hide it well, other people don't.

Speaker 2:

How I deal with it is I'm very much aligned with my emotions. So when I feel an emotion, I go, hmm, what does that mean? Why am I feeling this way? And I start to reflect on myself to understand is it something that I need to do? So is it something that is, you know, a capability thing where I need to do so? Is it something that is you know, a capability thing where I need to upskill some capability? And you know everyone can learn something quite quickly if they're able to use their network to be able to do that. So is it something I need to learn? Or is it something that is actually not fact-based, it's just emotion-based? And then how do I deal with that?

Speaker 2:

So I think everyone gets imposter syndrome, especially when something's quite new or if you've been so used to doing something in a specific way. If you've been in a role for 9, 10, 12 years and then you move into a different role in a different organization, everything is new and at that point there is feelings of imposter syndrome because it's new and you're doubting your ability. But having strong reference points in terms of your identity really helps Having strong reference points in terms of who you are. So you know, corinne, if I said to you that you know I'll just make this up right If I said to you that you've got blonde hair right and big green eyes, it's not true. Right. As strong as you are in terms of your physical identity should be exactly the way you need to be in your professional identity.

Speaker 2:

And I call it healthy ego because you need to have healthy ego. It's not about not having ego, it's a healthy ego. So you understand who you are, but also understand where you've got gaps and when you have that. That really helps you with imposter syndrome, because then you can understand what's facts-based and you need to do something about it, or what's emotions-based, where you can then be reflective and rethink or reframe the way that you're thinking about a certain subject.

Speaker 1:

I've never looked at it, explained the way you did, but now that you mentioned it, it's so right. The way you did, but now that you mentioned it, it's so right. Last year I experienced much of imposter syndrome and it was so nice to have a few calls this week and finish those calls and take ownership of them and say it's so nice not to feel imposter syndrome, but right, because I've already been doing this for a few times, many times, so now I am at a much better place. So it's really nice to know that, yes, imposter syndrome is attached to experiencing something new and really being aware of those emotions someone is experiencing. Thank you, what advice would you give to aspiring product leaders who want to work at the intersection of AI and business strategy?

Speaker 2:

work at the intersection of AI and business strategy. So my advice is go and there's a term in products called dogfooding, which is the best way you're going to learn is go and do so. I mentor a number of product people. I mentor a number of different people, some exec coaching that I do for some execs. Some of the things that come through is around and training is brilliant. You need training.

Speaker 2:

Training is a structured way of learning, but it won't give you the learning that's practical. It gives you the theory, it gives you the understanding of how something works, but it's not going to give you the principle of experience. So what I tend to say to people who want to learn about AI read as much as you can so you're context aware, but then go and try and implement it. So only yesterday I was on the train coming back and I was like, oh, let me just experiment with this AI agent, and I was able to quite quickly put an AI agent together and then be able to use operators to be able to ask the agent to do something. Then it went out to a number of different websites to try and book me a holiday. Now it was still a bit broken, but the thought process of stringing these things together gave me confidence in my ability, but also knowledge, to say actually this is quite powerful in the application of that.

Speaker 2:

So by doing you learn, but you still need to have that knowledge. So I think you need both of them. Get the knowledge, but don't just be knowledge rich without the experience. And if you're experience rich without the knowledge, you don't know how far you can push this. So having both of them really helps.

Speaker 2:

So I'd say to any aspiring product manager go get some base training, but then also start doing some of the experience. And one of the things we'll talk about in a minute is a new company I founded just today called Atheta, and the whole concept around that is for me to be able to use AI to build out a platform. So the things I will learn won't be things that I will write about, but I'll be like actually in reality, I can use tokenization this way. Long context can be used in this way. This is how I'm going to train my models. All that becomes really powerful for when you're then in an organization or a corporate organization, because you understand some of the limitations but also some of the boundaries you can push. So then you become a disruptive leader, but in a good way, because you're pushing the boundaries of of reality because you know where some of the boundaries are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, great. And talking about training, you went back to do your mba last year, correct? Yeah, was that your second mba or your first mba?

Speaker 2:

my second master's but my first MBA. So I did my first master's after university. I did a degree, then a master's, so this is my second master's that I did Took me three years to do, but I graduated this January.

Speaker 1:

Congratulations. Big accomplishment this year, and you pursued your MBA while being an SVP, which no small feat at all. What have what made you decide to do it and how did you balance that all?

Speaker 2:

so I guess for me, I've always wanted to do an MBA, mainly because I really enjoy the intellectual challenge of stretching my brain. When I read a really good book, I go, wow, that was fantastic. You know, I've got an innate curious mind where I really want to continuously, you know, feed my brain. So you know, I was on holiday last week and I was reading Harvard Business Review because I like to understand other people's points of views. I like to be quite critical on kind of other people's thinking, but also be complimentary as well. I've never thought about it that way, so that's kind of my innate nature. So that was the reason why I wanted to do one. The main reason why I did it now was two things my kid's a little bit older, which helps I'm not changing nappies while trying to do an essay, but at the same time, affordability.

Speaker 2:

I could never have been able to afford an MBA before and at the point where I thought actually I can afford this, I invested in myself and did the MBA. My key learnings, I guess, from doing the MBA is you realize how much time there is in 24 hours, but you can really optimize your time. Instead of sitting and doing Instagram, you can read two or three case studies, especially with AI summarizing some of the case studies, summarizing some of the reading, changing from text to audible, so you can really like, while you're driving, understand some of the course material. Five o'clock in the morning was my normal wake-up time at the time and I could do a good two, three hours before my day started, right before I had to wake the kids up, get them ready, get the breakfast, do the school run, um, so really it allows you to really understand that you know every five minutes, ten minutes, is very precious and, um, you can really use that to upskill yourself.

Speaker 1:

Wow, a lot of time optimization. How did your MBA experience shape the way you approach leadership and decision making?

Speaker 2:

So I think there's a lot to be said around doing an MBA. The main thing I really enjoyed about the MBA was it wasn't just course, theory, you did your theory. You did an essay, which was quite a reflective essay on your organization or a organization of choice, which made you really deeply think about the theory in the application sense of an organization, so organizational behavior. So I went through a whole real, real crazy transformation where you know a lot of the things that you shouldn't do were done to a number of people and how that affected the organization. Its culture really gives you real strong and back to the curious mind, real strong affinity go. Ah, that's where we went wrong. Oh, I see now that with that theory and the application you see the cause and effect. So I think that them things were really useful.

Speaker 2:

I think the other thing that I found from the MBA that changed my way of let's run leadership. But leadership is a skill that can be learned, but it's also a skill that you need to apply your knowledge to get the experience, because everyone is different and so if you read a book to say, motivate your colleagues this way, it's not really going to motivate everyone. So you really have to have that intersection between knowledge and then experience, I guess. But my key learnings for my MBA is around having critical thinking. So now when I read something or even when I see a framework, so now when I read something or even when I see a framework, my, my mind doesn't go. Oh, that's okay, my mind goes.

Speaker 2:

How can I break this? What's missing from this? What are the things that I can add additively to enhance this? And that's a framework, a process, a, an approach. What are the things that I can add to this to really make this my own but also have a higher impact? And I think that kind of training in terms of looking at things from a critical lens, not from a negative lens, a critical lens to say what's the limitations and how can I enhance this really came from, you know, three years of thinking that way. Really helps train the brain to think that way.

Speaker 1:

It's very valuable and I learned a lot from your key learnings from your MBA. So thanks. And moving a little bit into more of your personal branding and the passion projects you have outside of work, I was really excited for this interview, to ask questions in regards of this, because I consider myself a multifaceted person, but I don't think I've ever met more multifaceted than you, and there's a lot going on, and I'm very intrigued on how you approached all of this. So one you have a strong presence outside of your corporate role your food blog, your personal brand and now ItiTha, ititha am I saying it right?

Speaker 2:

That's great, yep.

Speaker 1:

ItiTha, which congratulations for launching. I can't wait to see what ItiTha has in place and why is personal branding so important to you?

Speaker 2:

If I answer your question two ways, one is you listed a number of things multifaceted, but my simple answer is mindset. My mindset is everything is quite simple and everything is achievable. It may take some time. It's simple but it's not easy. It's simple means that I know I can do it, but it may take me a lot of time to get there. It may take me a lot of effort. I may need to go and find a number of people who I need to go and talk to so that I can really enhance my understanding.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's kind of a principle thinking, or first principle thinking, that I have to say everything can be simplified, but then I need to put a lot of effort in to actually get to a point where I am an expert. I don't need to be an expert in everything, so that allows me to be quite multifaceted. Am I an expert? I don't need to be an expert in everything, so that allows me to be quite multifaceted. And then personal branding is important in many ways because A perception is reality, but then you can have a really strong personal. You know a LinkedIn, understand very quickly that you're not an AI expert, for example, if someone said they're an AI expert. So having that kind of substance and personal brand really helps, and, for me, what it gives me is the joy of being able to share my knowledge, the joy of being wrong. So you know, I will post things and people comment and I'll go oh, that's an interesting take and it will help me revisit my thinking, sometimes to the core and my principal thinking, to actually what I thought was true is not true, and it gives me a more expansive learning. So, for me, learning is really important. It allows me to think differently and learn. But, wider than that, it opens up opportunities, and it's not just about jobs. It's not about finding another job. I use LinkedIn a lot but it's not about finding another job. These opportunities go to a dinner or go and do a keynote speech or, like this, having a podcast. You know I've got a number of podcasts coming up soon.

Speaker 2:

Having a strong personal brand allows and opens up opportunities that you would never have otherwise, and so it's really important for everyone who wants to progress their career to be able to have not just an internal brand but an external brand. I was talking to someone recently and they're like well, if I post on LinkedIn, know employer will think I'm looking for another job and I'm like, no, they won't Post about things you're interested in and just be consistent and post about them. This is not about you looking for another job. This is about you being visible to the world to say this is who I am, these are the things I'm interested in, and then being able to connect with people who are interested in similar things will help you challenge your thinking. Having that kind of mindset means that you're not going to be shy of posting, but you're also going to be able to develop your brand in your way than not knowing who your brand is or not really knowing what you're interested in because you've not really tried.

Speaker 1:

And what advice do you give professionals looking to build their personal brand while still excelling at their corporate role? So you've mentioned it. Right now, what if my employer thinks I'm looking for another job like? What advice would you give them to do both?

Speaker 2:

um, I think my advice would be to just start going uh, if you've not done it already, it's not too late. Just start pushing and understanding your brand. Start small, because really you need to start understanding yourself and being quite reflective on yourself so that you're your authentic self in your brand and then really defining what your brand is. Having that conflict between employee and employer I think if that is a reality, then you're probably in the wrong job, Because if I'm working for an organization and I'm talking about things that are thought leading or actually looking to change the thinking of the norm, then that's something the employer should be proud of. To say, this person works in my organization and is really ambitious. To start reading and understanding and connecting. That really helps the employer's brand increase. Now, if there is this you know, let's call it a draconian or a very archaic way of thinking then I'd probably be saying, if that's true, probably in the wrong role.

Speaker 1:

Right, yes, and how would you describe your own personal brand?

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. It's a difficult one for me because it depends on what context. But I would say I'm a very authentic leader. I find passion in knowledge and my personal brand is someone who is is very positive. But I don't mean positive in the sense of not being a realist. My positivity comes from every day above ground is a great day. That's. That's like my first principle thinking so every morning is a great day because I'm still alive. So when I have that, not much can shake me, not much can can affect my, my level of energy. But I guess my personal brand focuses on the thirst for knowledge, the application of that knowledge and then building something that makes impacts on the world.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I love that and I love your leadership style. I think I've told you before, but it's very inspiring and motivational and the positivity makes a difference.

Speaker 2:

So thanks for that um, it makes a massive difference and and you know, if you're really strong in your personal, you know your healthy ego, your personal identity I don't care if someone in my team is working for me becomes my boss. I would be so inspired and so proud of that. And that's really hard for some people because when they don't have a healthy ego, what they can do and I see I've worked with people like that or I've seen it's senior leadership doing this they're not there to grow their team, they're there to get the team to deliver for them, and so it raises the bar or the outcome or the bonus or whatever the incentive is for that person. But then they don't. When the people get too big, then they get pruned or trimmed or pushed back down. That's not a healthy way for anyone.

Speaker 2:

If I look at everyone's trajectory, everyone has a trajectory, everyone has a career and for me again, another first principle is I will want to get the best for that person, whatever that might be, and if I can help them on that journey, that's a privilege for me. And with that sort of thinking, then you're not tied down to oh, why did that person send that email? If people are talking to my CEO. I'm happy. I'm happy because they're building bonds with the people that are the decision makers. That's a great thing for them in their career. But that's a real difficult trait to see in a lot of people. But it comes back to not being strong in your own identity.

Speaker 1:

Right, and it's a mindset too. If you grow somebody in your team that at one point can become your boss, that means you're growing too. That doesn't mean that you're staying in the same place you're it's. It's a parallel growth.

Speaker 2:

Both of it exactly um, it's a small world, karina, right. So if I, if I am able to grow people together. And I give an example, there's a person who was an intern, um, who when I was, when I was working in defense, came in as an intern, so they were just between a university degree. They've just sold their company to a payments firm and it was such a privilege. They worked to my team. They're now a ceo and they've sold their company and it was such a privilege to have seen that journey and being able to talk to that person, because I've got a lot of learnings from them, wow, and because you build that bond, I can ask questions now. How did you do this? What was your exit strategy? How did you know when it was time to exit? You know, how did you do your right terms and your term sheet for exit? These questions I can ask because I've been able to build a strong bond from a professional level and a friendship level, where it's not about taking or giving. It's an exchange.

Speaker 1:

A small world, like you say. Talk to us a little bit about Ethita and what this is, and when are you planning to go to market.

Speaker 2:

Sure. So ethitacom this is again I talk about dogfooding the thing you want to learn. So I talked about launching. I love building things. I love going to a point where I've actually got something out there, because it's not just getting something out there, it's the journey and the learning.

Speaker 2:

So athetacom is something that I've been toying with. Initially it was the outcome of a product. Now my thinking has changed after interviewing lots and lots of people to really understand what's the job to be done. Um, so athetacom is a ai powered platform. Uh, we're in a alpha stage right now and we're just finalizing some of the machine learning models and gen ai models, but essentially it provides that connection between supply and demand. Someone wants to think, someone needs to think, and how can you use your AI to match them together? So the idea is to use.

Speaker 2:

I've got three products that we're incubating. One is Charity Connect, connecting charities with employers who have skills that they can provide. The other one is Investor Connect investors with startups. And the last one is Alumni Connect, which is graduates or people who've finished an MBA or finished a degree who need some mentorship and skills and help. How do they connect with their alumni and how do you make sure that you can make them connections meaningful.

Speaker 2:

So it's very much focused on ai. It's very much using gen ai I've used. So far I've just used ai for the whole thing, from the website through to the logo, through to the copy, through to the platform, where we're trying to bootstrap as much as we can with either tools that are already there or use ai to build them tools or build out the code. And that really helps me think again. Really helps me think about what are some of the limitations, what's going to be possible, what's not going to be possible.

Speaker 2:

And I'm working through the pitch deck Go-to-market. I would look to try and get some beta customers over the next few months. I think there's a few more interviews I need to do, especially around the Investor Connect, but the platform will become more and more mature as these products become live to market and then I'll be looking to, you know, I'll be looking to invite people to use the platform to solve their problems of supply and demand, because then by then I'll have the right schemas, the right models, you can train the right data and therefore that marketplace of a platform becomes available.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. You're going to have to come back and do a full on episode. I'll do a pitch.

Speaker 2:

I'll do a pitch. I'll do a pitch just on Theta, but, like I said, I'm bootstrapping it. There is very little to low investment right now to see if the idea works. And if the idea doesn't work, that's okay, because the learning I've got so far and the learning I'll get to that point will be valuable enough for the next thing I do.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I love it, and is your podcast related to the blog that you have? What's your podcast about and how can people find your podcast?

Speaker 2:

So it's called swift swiftagilecom. I can send you a link and I've got it on apple and on spotify. So my first podcast was around my dissertation, so 20 000 words. I used notebook lm to compress all that and I used lots of different prompts to get a conversation between two AI agents having a conversation on the theory that I'd put together of interviewing over 54 people and hundreds of people filling out my survey. So it brings that to life in an audio context. The concept of Swiftly Agile now going forward will be it's very much product-based of Swiftly Agile now going forward will be it's very much product-based. So people who are in product strategy, product management, product pricing, product ops, design anything to do with creating of the product, marketing anything on that value chain. I'll be inviting people to come on to the show. I'll be learning from you, karina, and what you've done here to try and bring people onto the show so that they can share that knowledge. But I can send you the link and you can add it to the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so you have your SVP hat, you had your MBA hat, you had your food blog hat. Most importantly, you are a husband and you are a dad. How do you manage to balance work, family and your passion projects? Do you have non-negotiables habits or routines that you do?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And I think one of the things I learned quite quickly, especially working in banking and finance, was there's never enough time in the day. Banking and finance was there's never enough time in the day. So when I worked in banking and work is dynamic where the more you provide input, the more output becomes more work for you. So what I found for myself and I went through that journey where I was doing 15, 18 hours a day was the more you do, the more work is right.

Speaker 2:

It's not like there's a, there's a summit, and you get there and then you've got deck chairs and you're able to to relax. That's that never happens. So for me, my first non-negotiable is I will not work a weekend. My weekends are solely for my kids, to do fun things with my kids. I have a classic Mini and so we work on the classic Mini, on the car, so they learn, you know, different skills around how do they look at an engine and how they pull the engine apart and how we can change the oil and you know, change the calipers and the brake lines and all these other things. But it's bonding time with my kids because they're going to be, they're going to grow up very quickly and I will miss all that. So that's one negotiable. I will not work a weekend and my weekend is sacrilegious for my kids.

Speaker 2:

The other thing is so, my food blog, for example. You can mix some of these things together. So we have, when I'm doing cooking, I have both my boys doing the filming, then we do the editing together and then we're posting together on the whole, you know, on Instagram and on the food blog and everything else, and it becomes an event in itself and it's fun because I get to learn how they like to work. I also get to learn things from them where they're like, actually, dad, let's not use this software. This software is better. Let's use these hashtags, because these get more, you know, more traction on Instagram or things I get to learn. But then they also get to learn other skills. But bigger than that, we get to share an experience together and it's fun.

Speaker 2:

There's passion, right? There's food. We get to eat the food. We take lots of shots of the food. There's passion, right, there's food. We get to eat the food. We take lots of shots of the food. There's a whole process there where there's a good few hours, where you're spending quality time with your loved ones.

Speaker 2:

So you know, some of my do most of my writing in the morning, and my writing is quite simple. I have my phone, I'll come up with something and then, once I've come up with it, I'll write a note about it and then, over a series of a few days, maybe a few weeks, something comes from it because I can continue to add to it. Then I write it as a blog when I'm on the train and then I'll post it. So you know, there's lots of different ways of doing it, where you're not solely dedicating all your time to one thing. The other thing really that I've learned is if you have breaks from one thing, you can be more effective at the thing you're doing.

Speaker 2:

So when you've got a problem and you're like I really need to solve this problem, you can sit there for eight hours trying to solve the problem and it will not get solved. You can sleep on it and wake up the next day and you've got a solution. Why? Because your unconscious mind will kick in and find you a solution. So what I do is where I've got a problem and go. Am I going to be able to solve this? Probably not. I'm going to put it into my conscious mind take the dogs for a walk, go and do something different, come back and I'm more productive. So having that understanding of yourself means that you're able to optimize your time but also do your best work at the best time. I do my best writing in the morning, I do my best creativity in the evening and I do most of my work during the day. So you know, understanding that about yourself really helps you kind of be productive and balanced.

Speaker 2:

But there's never a balance. There is a it's a continuum right. There's never a balance. There is a it's a continuum right. There's always forces where you have to sometimes prioritize. One You're never going to have unless you've made it and you don't need to work and you're living on a beach. There's always going to be a time where you have to be able to add a different focus. You've got a new job right. You need to put more time in to really understand the context. Your first three months in a new job is very tiring, but you're trying to understand everything you can in that honeymoon period so that you're most effective afterwards. So you know, every time there's a new event you have to really push some of them forces. But first principle is my time with my kids is sacred to me, and the weekends are for the kids.

Speaker 1:

I love that. So your passions are also family projects exactly yeah, can you tell a little bit about your blog and how can people find your blog?

Speaker 2:

I've got a few um. So I've got one which is called hungryucom, and that's vegetarian food. The kind of name came from. I was hungry, I'm Hindu. I thought let me see if this name is available. And com was available, there we go.

Speaker 2:

I bought the domain, didn't do much with it for the first six months, went to Kenya there wasn't much to do because there were some political elections. So I thought let me create a blog and so be it. And you know I get 74 78 000 hits a month from it and I don't really do much on it apart from posts about food and recipes. So there's hungryhindicom. Another one that I do is called swiftlyagilecom. Again, swiftly agile um, quickly being flexible, I guess, with the agile, and that's the one that I'm using now to launch my podcast. So I launched my first podcast a few weeks ago and I'm looking to call out to product leaders so that product leaders can give again, share their knowledge. I will get to learn but also share their knowledge on products, ai, technology, thinking, strategy, everything under that banner of products, and learn for myself but also then be able to share that wealth of knowledge with others.

Speaker 1:

I love it and I love the website. Did you do the website?

Speaker 2:

Which one? Hungry Hindu, both? Yeah, I did them all myself. So again, learning how do you do a website quite quickly and for me, I can do HTML, I can do CSS, but for me this was before Gen AI, I just used WordPress.

Speaker 1:

Wow, it looks very nice, clean and neat, and I can tell what it's about, so I'm going to definitely check it out. Thank you for sharing those. No problem rapid fire question what one book that has had a significant impact on your career?

Speaker 2:

so I read a lot of books. I tend to read, um, probably two or three books a month, um, and then usually recommendations from people my kind of, and you can see I've studied the book quite well and it's got lots of my notes in there and thinking in there. It's this one called Competing Against Luck by Clayton Christensen, and he was a Harvard business professor. He's now passed away, but he's thinking on how you think about products and he came up with a concept called job to be done. So he did the innovation dilemma as well. So, but he's thinking around, thinking about products and the job the customer is trying to do in their head, and there's a really good example of milkshake. But I won't spoil the book for you. It really helped me start thinking about products in a different way.

Speaker 2:

So my initial kind of you know, coming from a tech background, understanding human psychology being an nlp practitioner, you know I was I was very focused on the technology widgets, let's say that the, the, the components to build the feature.

Speaker 2:

But what I started to find is when you produce or launch a product and it's not, you know, there and I've got a number of product failures, let's say, I thought why is there no adoption, and it came from not truly understanding what is the customer's need, what is the job they're trying to do.

Speaker 2:

So when you see products that fail, a number of things can happen external events, all these other things but if it's a product that's not sustainable, it tends to be that it's not really solving a problem for a customer. And you see that with you know. There was this juice machine that was very expensive and you could get this juice and it would do the juice, but if you just got the bag and squeezed it, it gave you the same results. Obviously, that product did failed right, because the job to be done the product couldn't solve. So I really enjoy this In terms of this. It frames the how might we's it looks at. If you focus this with design thinking, it puts you in a really powerful place for a product strategy, a reframing perspective and an ability to try and solve the problem for the customer in an innovative way, but in an innovative way that really solves the problem, because you're really understanding the customer I'll have to add that to my list of books.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for that.

Speaker 2:

Let me know what you think once you've read it yes, I will show feedback.

Speaker 1:

If you could give your younger self one piece of career advice, what would it be?

Speaker 2:

failure is okay, that's it. I ask my kids every day what did you fail at today? And they say I did this and it didn't work. And I go well done right. That's the mindset I want people to have. Failure is okay. That means you're pushing yourself. But if you're scared of failure, you'll never try. So failure is okay love it.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna quote it. I'm gonna quote it and put it in my desk. Uh, what is your favorite dish to cook or eat from your food blog?

Speaker 2:

There's so many to choose from. Karina, I like a really good curry On a Sunday. I'll do this thing called khitri, which is like a one-pot cooking. It's quite simple, super tasty, lots of vegetables, lots of spices. You get your I'm trying to say the English words you get your rice and your lentils, put it all into a pressure cooker, you cook it, you temper it with some seasoning and flavors and then it's called Khichri pot cooking all your protein, all your nutrients all in one pot. Really, really quick to make, 15 minutes and you're done, but super wholesome, especially when the weather's cold. So, yeah, that's probably one of my favorites, but I've got too many favorites to list it's your dinner time and it's my lunch time and I'm starving, so that sounds there we go um what sparks your creative flame.

Speaker 2:

Interesting points of view, so conversations, or I'll see something on the. You know, I went through London St Pancras recently and they had this soundscape, visualscape and smellscape, all part of this advertisement through a tunnel. So it smelled of vanilla, it was advertising this vanilla ice cream and then it had all the visuals across it. So there's visual, visual and you know, all the senses got stimulated, which I thought was an interesting, immersive way of doing advertisement. But I guess it's. It's visual seeing other people's work, but also conversation. I get super simulated when I'm talking to someone and they have a different logical mind to mind and it's not right or wrong, it's about having that conversation and trying to understand their point of view, which then stimulates my thinking to go actually, what I thought may have not been 100% correct. How do I come back to, how do I add anything more to it or what do I need to change to enhance my thinking?

Speaker 1:

Love it. And last one if you weren't in product and tech, what would you be doing?

Speaker 2:

I'd be unemployed. So I just have a real strong passion for technology. I have a real strong passion for product. I've never looked back. I guess my other career profession would be in medicine, I guess and that's not because I'm Indian, it's a typical Indian thing to do Helping people and doing something good for society is a real passion of mine. So, um, so, maybe if I had to then be going into something quite vocational like medicine to be able to to help the people in need, but yeah, genuinely I don't think I could live a world without technology and products, because I've I've got over two decades of of experience and knowledge and and failures, um, and and successes, but that that's kind of my identity and my passion.

Speaker 1:

I admire your eagerness to make an impact and help others. That puts us right at seven o'clock UK time.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, karina, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for sharing your insights and product innovation, personal growth and balancing career with passion. This was truly an inspiring conversation. Your journey is a proof of what's possible when you align your work with curiosity, strategy and impact. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share with someone who needs to hear this, and if you want to keep up with Vavesh and his latest ventures, check out his LinkedIn or his blog or his social media. Until next time, and keep sparking ideas and hustling toward your dreams.