Raise Quitproof Kids

What do you do when your kid wants to quit… or worse, won’t even start?

In this episode, we’re talking about how to raise a kid who doesn’t give up—and how to be a parent who doesn’t give up either. Because perseverance isn’t just about pushing through big challenges… it shows up in homework battles, missed goals, frustration, and all those everyday moments where quitting feels easier.

We break down what research says about growth mindset, grit, and why effort matters more than talent—and then we make it real with stories from our own kids (including the moments we wanted to step in and just do it for them).

You’ll walk away with simple, practical tools you can use right away:

•  How to shift your child from “I can’t” to “I can’t yet” 
•  Why struggle actually builds confidence (and protects against risky behaviors) 
•  What to say instead of “you’re so smart” 
•  How to help your kid set goals they’ll actually follow through on 
•  Easy ways to build perseverance into your family culture 

This one is about raising finishers—not perfect kids, but kids who keep going.

Transcript

Introduction And Why Perseverance Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hello, and welcome to our Good Friends Strong Families podcast. I am Angela and I'm Anna.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Today we're going to be talking about how to raise a kid who doesn't give up and also learning how to be a parent who doesn't give up. Because this is one of those skills that we're going to be teaching you tools that can literally be used in every stage and phase and age of life. Because we will all inevitably hit speed bumps and roadblocks and thing hit hitting a wall where we want to give up.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

And so um it could be with homework, it could be with learning a new skill, it could be with practicing the skills you're learning on our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Right. I like that expression, we can do hard things.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Yes. And also choosing your hard because it's usually, you know, two sides of the same coin, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

I think too, when we think about not giving up on things, one of the expressions that you and I use a lot when we're doing like our strengthening families classes or other classes where we'll say um it's fun and easy to do because the more people hear that those skills are easy, they are attainable, or they might be frustrating or a little more difficult now, but they will get easier over time, the better I think it is for people. They'll understand more.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yes, absolutely. And they really are like simple concepts, it's just a matter of persevering a lot of times. And perseverance is like a muscle, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

So we gotta use it. I love that. Perseverance is a muscle. I'm getting a t-shirt that's I've been persevering in a lot lately.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Yeah. And I think like I feel like resilience was kind of like one of those buzzwords maybe a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. And we've talked about this a lot because we one of the things that we always say, my husband and I say this, and and Angela and I talk about it a lot, is like whatever struggles we've had in our lives, we always want our kids to have a better life than us, right? And we always want them to do better than us. And so, um, but resilience doesn't come easy.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

You gotta want we want our kids to have resilience. Um, but that means they're gonna kind of have to go through some growing pains. Which is gonna have to have that struggle and and keep going.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

For me, when our kids were little and they would get through that growing phase, I saw other parents that just handled this really well, and I just didn't handle it so well because I was like, well, why can't you do it? Or why would you get so frustrated? Just do it. Like, I I think there was like a part of me when I was younger that just forgot that I also had struggled to get to where I was. And so I really wanted to like shortcut it for the kids. Like, oh, I'll just do it. It's just easier for me to do it. But then they're not struggling, or they're not learning, or they're not growing because I've chosen to do it for them.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Right. Because resilience grows when they try the hard things, they learn from failure, they reassess, they problem solve, and we're there to support them through it, but we kind of can't do it for them. I I feel like um my gosh, I don't even know if it's like accurate, but I've heard it and I think it is. I think I looked it up like many, many years ago. But did you ever hear a story about like how baby giraffes are born? Oh, wait, I think I have. Okay, tell the story. I love this. Okay, so you know, like giraffes are obviously like tall, they have long legs. So in the wild, when giraffes are born, they drop from their mother and they land. And somebody was observing this, probably like a good, good-willed person who, you know, loves animals. And they were like, Oh my gosh, that poor baby giraffe fell on the hard ground. And so, through whatever means they wanted to support the birth of baby giraffes, and I I want to say like they used a mattress or some sort of cushioning, some cushioning. And and when that baby giraffe fell on the cushioning, it never did take its first breath. And because something about the drop like kick-started something for the giraffe's first breath or something.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Wow, wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

And so that's just one tiny little example in the world. That's pretty funny, actually. We want to protect our kids, right? We're struggling, oh, let me just do it. But how are they ever gonna learn? And and it could be something as simple as learning how to tie shoes, it could be something bigger, but it's through those small things and and and the learning how to persevere. I was one of those kids. I uh learning came really easy to me when I was younger. And so I didn't have to study, which also meant I didn't know how to study. Oh. And so at some point I I hit that wall of like, oh, I don't just I can't just logically learn this through common sense or my own reasoning. I have to actually memorize things or learn new concepts that I don't understand. And so I I then felt like I guess I'm I guess I'm not smart because I was always told I was smart. And so when something was hard, I must not be smart anymore. And so I think that that's one of the tools that we're gonna talk about too is learning how to praise and um

Letting Kids Struggle Without Rescuing

SPEAKER_03 5:55

encourage the effort over the results because there will be times when our kids and ourselves put in a ton of effort and we still not might might not hit the goal. We still might not get the job, the kid might not make the team, even though they put in a lot of effort, yeah, they still might not actually be quote good enough for certain things. And so if if the if all we're focused on is the reward instead of the process of persevering, of learning, of growing and saying, hey, you still got better, like there's still something worthy of the effort and the time, even if the result isn't what you want.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense because what happens in their adult lives, they're not gonna get everything they want. They're not gonna get the partner that they want, they're not necessarily, they're not gonna get the job that they want necessarily, or get uh um uh what is the word I'm looking for? Um, accepted into the school that they want. Or, you know, there are times where are where they are not gonna get exactly what they want. And so I know because I'm a mom, how hard that is to see your kids struggle or to see them work really hard for something and not get it. But you're right, it is in that struggle. It's in that, and there are times that they win. There are. And that it's so that you know, that's the other thing is we have to like, you know, celebrate those wins and be really excited about those as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Yes, even when they're small. And I think that's the that's the thing is like the everyday things, like there's always something to be celebrated, even if it's just acknowledging their effort or their work so hard. Yeah. And also remembering that growth and progress. I remember like the phrase when I was a kid was like, practice makes perfect, practice makes perfect. You're if you just practice, practice, you'll be perfect. And obviously, we know that's not true. But these are new expressions. They say now, practice makes what? Progress.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Oh, is that it? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Yeah. And I think another thing to remember is that progress isn't always linear. So that's a big you're gonna go out there, you're gonna have an amazing day, amazing practice, or amazing game, or whatever your your activity is. Um, you're gonna remember all the correct spelling for every single word, whatever. But then the very next day, or the very next game, or the very next test, or the very next concept, it may not go that way.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

And so again, that's where that focus on the effort and the focus on the work and the and those skills that you want them to learn is is where we still celebrate that. And you know, like we always talk about you know, if you're capable of getting A's, that's awesome. We want you to do your best. But if your best is a B or a C, we can still celebrate that because you did your best. So we yeah, we have um some researchers and some quote experts in this field.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Sorry, uh, erase that part.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

There's nothing I'm like, um to get it off. Sorry, Ellie, you erased this last part. Okay, sorry. Go back, Anna, start again with um, we have some researchers in the field.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yes. So, I mean, Angela's kind of like our expert

Growth Mindset And Grit Explained

SPEAKER_03 9:20

on on sharing all things research-based. Um, and there's some skills that and tools that strengthening families teaches. And then we've also pulled some other resources. And so, Angela, tell us about Carol Dweck's work.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Oh, I love this stuff. Okay, so there's a researcher, her name's uh Carol Dweck, and she studied why there's uh some kids keep like pushing through and trying, and but then there are other kids that just shut down when things get really hard, like things get tough and they're like, I can't do it, I don't want to do it. Get this. This is what she found. When kids believe their abilities can grow if they practice, then they will press through. So they have to have a belief system that says, if I keep pressing, if I keep, you know, uh practicing, if I press through when it gets hard, I know my abilities are gonna grow. However, the kids who didn't believe that their abilities there they didn't think they'd see any change at all. They said, I quit, I'm not gonna do it. The funny thing is, so she calls this a growth growth mindset. Um, so the funny thing is, is that it's just a matter of moving those kids from I don't believe that I'm gonna get better to understanding that they can get better, that if they do practice, they can get better. And then they would move from that fixed position to a growth position, and it literally changes how kids respond to challenge. Isn't that awesome? But guess who has to do it? The people who care about them.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Yeah, especially if it if that quote growth mindset does not come natural, if that hasn't already been just learned through hosmosis.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

And I think that that's kind of like what what my struggle was was um, you know, if you're called, oh, you're so smart, or you're so good, you're so naturally athletic. And so when a kid's told these things are just come natural to them, we think we're praising them, but that actually feeds the fixed mindset because they think that that's what they are, and that that that doesn't change. And so that kid who's been told all their life that, like, oh my gosh, you, you know, since you picked up a ball, you've just been amazing when you were two. You could barely run, but you were like already like the star athlete. And then they then at some point the the playing field is leveled. And the other kids who maybe weren't, quote, naturally inclined to athleticism were the ones that were lear what had good like practice skills and and practice um discipline. And all of a sudden, they're just as good or better, or even if they're not, even if that person really does have an amazing natural talent, they don't have the the all those other benefits of like a strong work ethic because they just think this talent was handed to them and they're not actually developing it. And so uh, you know, same thing with like telling a kid, oh, you're so smart. Like again, that's fixed. So then if something, if they don't understand something, then they just think they're not smart.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So that's good, and we can actually change that. Like instead of just praising when they've done it, we praise their effort for doing it. So that we praise their growth, we praise their tenacity, we praise their resilience or their grit, which is actually what she calls it. She calls it grit. And she says passion plus perseverance is what helps kids finish what they start. And so even when it's boring, even when it's frustrating, even when it's not going perfectly. And the cool thing about that is that grit is actually a skill. And so the more they do it, the more they practice it, the more they're supported in it, the more they will develop their grit. And that's what will help them to do that, not just in sports or school or whatever, but in all areas of their life.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Life. Yeah. Yes. And there's another research researcher, Angela Duckworth, and she studied why some people succeed long term. And surprisingly, it wasn't talent, it was something that she calls grit.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Oh, she's the one that says that.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

We need to fix that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Okay, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Erase all the stuff I talked about for grit. Go back and let Anna talk about that grit part. Okay. Wrong researcher. And action.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Yes. So I love Carol Dweck's kind of summary is that kids don't need to be naturally good. They just need to believe that they can improve. And then another researcher, Angela Duckworth, studied why some people succeed long term. And surprisingly, it wasn't talent, it was something that she calls grit, which is passion plus perseverance. Grit is what helps the kids finish what they start loving it. Boring, frustrating, or not going perfectly. And I think that that's something that we haven't touched on yet, and we will. Um, but it's a skill. So it grows through the practice, support, and experiencing the small wins over time. And that small win could just be progress. It could just be acknowledging that they've worked really hard and they haven't given up, even if they still have yet to receive get the result that they want. Um, so grit develops when kids stick with something and they get to see that own progress. And we get to support them in that. And we kind of get to be the right. And uh we we can't do it for them.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Hey, listen,

Failure Builds Confidence And Protection

SPEAKER_01 15:00

listen to this. Okay, so this is one of the things that I really wanted to talk about that when we talk about um, when we talk about perseverance in prevention, we always think about like what protects our kids from choosing risky behaviors, for example. And so when we talk about um this idea of perseverance, we frame it as what we call a protective factor, meaning if kids are per will persevere in some things, it is really protective for them. And it's because when they learn to cope with their frustration, they're less likely to rely on using um different coping or risky coping strategies. So things like substances, avoidance, acting out, that kind of thing. But the really cool thing about that is it also helps to build internal confidence. Have you ever watched those shows like I can't, I'm not here, I don't want to name any, but you know, the kind of shows where people are like out in the middle of the wilderness and they are learning to survive. And I always think like, I don't occasionally they'll do something and I think, don't you have any like will to live? Like, why are you out here? You need a bet, you know, you need a starter will to live. And one of the things about uh perseverance or resilience is that it it can actually push us to do things we would never we would never think to do or think we could do, or any of those things. It's one of the reasons why it's so important for us not to do everything for our kids. We have they it's in the struggle. I heard a researcher say yesterday, it I Anna, listen, it changed the way I thought about failure. He said, You learn more in failure than you do success.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

You imagine I believe it because well, you also learn a lot about yourself, yeah. And how you respond to that. But yeah, I mean, what was it? Um, you know, like how many times did it take Thomas Edison to figure out the light bulb?

unknown 17:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yeah, he didn't get it the first time. It was like, wasn't it like close to a hundred or something? He's like, well, I've learned this many ways to not do it. And that was like a huge growth mindset. Like like take any like well-known inventor, like, oh my gosh, think about the perseverance when that when that idea was dropped into them, yeah, and they like they couldn't give up, or they were just so sure, or or even just I was just this just popped into my head. Uh, you can tell I grew up in a sports family. Um, I think it was they they assumed that like the human body was not even capable of running the mile in like under four minutes that they would let literally die if they ran that fast. Until they did it. Until they did it. And then once one person did it, all of a sudden all these other athletes were able to do it do it because they finally believed that it was possible.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

And this brings up another another kind of tool and strategy that we we hope you're gonna find very

The Power Of Yet In Brains

SPEAKER_03 18:10

useful. And it will probably be useful in a lot of scenarios, but it's called the power of yet. And I wish I remembered who coined that phrase. I'm pretty sure it's a book, even. Um, but for example, if your kid is struggling in math, and the most common thing when that I think parents hear is like, I can't do it or I'm not good at it. Yeah. And they need to learn the power of yet. You can't do it yet.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

You aren't good at it yet. You don't understand it yet. Yet. Um, I don't like carrots yet. Like I said, there's a lot of applications, and the power of yet is that growth mindset power. It is truly saying, like, hey, I don't get it yet, but I can. Or I, you know, I not what I mean, it literally any and everything, even as parents, we can say, I'm not good at applying these strategies yet. I'm not good at letting my kids struggle yet.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Listen, I wanna I want to ask you about this because you and I have talked about this, and I love the way you talk about it when we talk about um the neural pathways. So we've talked about how struggle literally strengthens the neural pathways because you it's all repetition, right? You're you're doing it, you're doing it again, you're doing it again. And that effort actually changes your brain. It actually creates pathways so that your brain will eventually choose whatever it was that you were struggling with more often.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Because think about it, like let's say your kid is is truly struggling in an area. Like I love to use the example of math because that's a very common one in my household. Right. Yeah, it's one that I have struggled to uh help my kids with because when I when I I didn't have a huge struggle with that. So again, it was one of those things that like came easily to me. So then when I had to like break it down to teach it, I didn't know how because I it was just I felt like I always knew. You're like, come on. So then I would try to come up with new strategies and new ways to explain it. And I felt like I was developing my own common core, like curriculum. Like it was just like, how else can I explain this? Um but, anyways, you're born kids. This is kind of we talked about this uh in our last episode about the ants. Those are probably your kids' ants. I can't do it. I'm not good at math. They've probably said it over and over and over. And so that is the current tunnel through their brain. The train track has been laid that this is their belief. I can't I'm not good at it. So now you have to build a new train track, basically like bypassing over the other one so that that becomes the default route. That's so good. Simply adding yet could be the bridge that gets you over that current tunnel, that current train track, because that's gonna be their default. And while it's their default, that's where the parents can come in and support. Because again, we can't do it for them. We can support them, we can try to help, we can, you know, do all these things, but we have to get them to do it. And so if they say something negative, you say say that again and add yet, and that helps build that new neural pathway that's so good to bypass the old one.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah, that's really good. And eventually that actually that connection dries up. The I can't do it connection dries up.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Well, it's not fed, it's starved, just like any tree plant, any any living thing, if it's not. Fed it will shrivel up and die. And that is how the brain works.

Stories Of Finishing Strong

SPEAKER_01 22:05

So I want to tell a quick story. One of our kids, um, you know, this was not a situation where they didn't want to try, they actually had been trying, and one of our kids decided to go through scouting and had gotten all the way just shy of becoming an Eagle Scout. And, you know, if you've ever had a kid in scouting or any of those, like, you know, skills development kind of programs, you know that they build upon, build upon, build upon, build upon, and you have years behind you in that absolute years of things that you've done. And so the kid gets to whatever, 17, I think, and says, I'm just gonna quit, had gotten all the way to the rank right before the final rank is Eagle Scout, right there. And he was like, Well, I'm just gonna quit. I I just I'm not interested anymore. I don't want to press through. It's too much work for me to go. This is too much. And I just had like this moment where I thought, I mean, obviously the kid was in his whatever, he was like, I think he was 17, if I remember right, but he was like, Gam ready to go off to college right after that. And like everything in me thought, I mean, realistically, do I really want to fight this kid to do it? You know what I mean? But then the other part of me thought he will regret that the rest of his life, that he didn't finish, that he had gotten right to the edge. I had talked to several guys that said, I got almost to my Eagle Scout and never got it. And I knew he would regret it. And so I went back to him and said, There is a big difference between someone who who crosses the finish line and someone who sits on the ground before they cross the finish line. You can cross the finish line with just seconds to spare and the last one to go through, but you have to go through. And he fought me. He didn't want to do it. He fought me like crazy. And, you know, you when they get to that that spot, you can't do it for them, but you have to be. I employed everything I called the scoutmaster, I got other things, all the people. And he did it, and he he did it and he did it begrudgingly, but he crossed that line. And boy, boy, he does not regret that now. He's so glad that he did it. So sometimes we have to, even though we might want to sit down and say, fine, you don't want to do it, it's your life. There are things that we know will impact them and we have to press through.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Right. And I think that that's a great example of it. Wasn't necessarily that, like, oh, it's too hard, but but it did take effort, right? He still has to apply more effort, more time. And then, you know, it's kind of like falls into the line, maybe, of like that boring category where like, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

You know, right? Like, and I uh this is one that, and I'm I'm just a very like, yeah, I know I like when our kids are learning different skills at school and they're just kind of like, and when am I gonna use this in like my adult life? And I don't, I do not lie and say, Oh yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna be grabbing all these things. No, you know what? You may not. You probably aren't gonna choose a field. This does not interest you. You're probably not gonna choose a field, a career in any field that involves this. So you probably won't. But it is what is required of you in the state of California to graduate.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, you gotta do that.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

So there's a lot of things, and there's gonna be more things throughout life that you don't want and you don't always see the purpose. Sometimes we don't see the purpose in our struggles, but that doesn't mean that they they there isn't something that we can learn from them and take away and apply to other areas. And so um, you're just gonna have to kind of get over yourself right now.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

And you're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

And you're gonna Yeah, because the argument isn't am I ever gonna use this? If you flip the argument, the argument is, am I going to be a finisher?

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Right. Right. And I'm am I gonna do what is asked of me? Am I gonna and your attitude can have a huge impact on how productive you are. Even when you aren't enjoying it, your attitude can be a huge factor. If you have a negative bad attitude, it's gonna take you a lot longer to get through that.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Well, listen, tell this is a story I'm gonna hear from you because one of the things that you and I talk about is how this actually means it even if it's something our kid wants to do. So we're talking about like my kid didn't want to do that or whatever, but you had a situation where one of your kids wanted to play basketball, but it got hard.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Well, yeah, just so like we kind of talked a little bit about, you know, there's some people kind of have all the genetic lottery as far as certain things are apply, right? So there's people who are born with, you know, oh, they're tall, they're whatever, coordinated, whatever, whatever, whatever. And then those other people aren't. Um, I don't even remember how many years ago it was, and I don't even remember what spurred it, but my son became really, really fascinated with basketball, and he did a couple camps, and then the next thing you know, he wanted to play on a team, and so we're like, okay, so we did that, and his first team was not very good. The coach had never coached before, but we appreciated the fact that he was willing to coach, and so it was kind of showed up. It was actually a kind of a good way to start, I think, because it was kind of like, hey, we're all learning together, we're all, you know, whatever. And so, um, but the next thing I know, he um, the the guy that he went to his first camp with, he is finding out how to contact him, he's asking him for like skills and drills for him to practice on his own every day. And he is out there practicing every day. And um, you know, again, he's not the tallest person on the team.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

And but he wasn't blessed with that height.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

But there that that isn't the like determining factor in this is your interest, but we all learned how to encourage him. Like this is something that he wants to do, and he's putting in the effort, but something he wants to do, something he likes doing, something that he sees progress in, like if we look at from when he started, but there's still moments of frustration.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

So it's still a little like so, even it, and I because I feel like sometimes people talk about um, there's lots of right or not right or wrong, there's lots of ways to parent through um like kids wanting to try different sports and activities and then going like this isn't for me. And um we can talk about the different strategies, but I don't know that they're necessarily right or wrong. But he he gets frustrated and you know, he'll he will practice and then sometimes it doesn't always apply to a game how he wants it to, or you know, it's like it's it's a team sport. So even if he, you know, so there's still a lot of opportunities to apply grit, perseverance, not giving up. Um and so we still get to support him in that, even though he's still like here we are four or five years later, and he's still just as interested, he's still just as wanting to play and wanting to get better, and still working so hard. Yes, yes. And so sometimes that's the frustration. It's like he will leave a game or a practice and he'll be like, I know I practice more than anybody else. And still, sometimes you're not the best person on the team. And I think that that's a huge thing, and that's kind of one of those other reminders that it's not always about the the result, it's about the effort and the opportunity to learn from that and grow from that. And you're learning so much through that experience, even if, because let's let's face it, not even the people who make it to the NBA are all Michael Jordan. None of them are right. So even when you quote, like hit peak, even if you you were to be quote successful and make it all the way, um, it still doesn't guarantee that you're quote the best. And so I think that when that's the focus, when the focus is on, you know, winning the gold medal or you know, being the starter of whatever, or being, you know, in some measurable way the best, um, you feel failure in a different way than when you celebrate this, you know, the small wins, you celebrate the effort, you um acknowledge what you're learning and how you're growing and developing as a human because you are disciplined and you're willing to struggle and you still may not ever quote reach whatever it might be an unattainable goal, but you're still willing.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Well, I mean, think about that like what percentage of people, even if you are a phenomenal player, what percentage of people actually make it to the NBA? You know what I mean? Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

But and I keep reminding him, you don't really want to peak at this age, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

You have plenty of time. Plenty of time. But I think that's a really great point because that's the thing about like, did they do it or did they do it naturally? Like, did you know, we have so many friends who were like excellent athletes and then just weren't even interested. Right. And then it feels really unfair to other kids who are like, I was so interested, but I wasn't six foot five and lanky and right, and like, you know what I mean? But um, but I was I had tenacity and I decided I was gonna work real hard. I mean, think about all the players you know who had tenacity who are not six foot five and lanky, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Well, and I remember, I think my dad said this when I was growing up. He's like, okay, so let's say you you're you make the team, let's say you're in the NBA, and let's say you are a bench warmer. He said, You better be the best bench warmer there is. That's talks about that a lot too, because he's been on many, many teams, different leagues, um, you know, different coaching experiencing experiences, different teammate experiences. And so we have lots of opportunities to talk about like you could still be the best teammate, you could still be cheering on, you can still, you know, when a teammate is behaving in a way that you don't, you know, you can still your your um values and the things that you uh want to embody, those don't change because of the people that you're around. The this is who you are, this is the type of player you are, and that doesn't change because you don't have a great coach, you don't have a great teammate.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

And that's really that is so the opposite of sometimes we'll be like, how come my kid isn't playing? How come my kid? And those those are issues that you can have as adults, but uh but when we're teaching kids, when we're talking to our own kids, the that those are the lessons they need to hear from us. That there that everything that you do, if you will persevere, then there is merit in the perseverance. And we know with the evidence that it it really does change their brain, it makes them a more persevering person. Yes. Okay, here's what I want to talk

Practical Tools For Goals And Follow Through

SPEAKER_01 33:50

about because we do have some tools for people. Yeah. So one of the things, and everybody will tell you, well, have them choose goals and have them work towards their goals, or you know, you come up with goals for them. Here's the thing, though. When you're coming up with goals, it's really important that we're not doing like performance-based goals, you know what I mean? Yeah, really should be. We don't want to make it academic, performance-based. What we want to do is sit with them and literally talk to them about what they want to get better at. Right. And they tell us what they want to get better at, then we have something, and they may come back and say, I don't know, whatever. But um, in both of our examples, there were things that they they were minor things that they may have wanted to get better at. Not, you know, most kids will be like, I want to be in the NBA or I want to, but help them to come up with what goal and then just walk through how do you then come up with what we call the SMART goal approach, right? So that they can take the whatever goal they want and actually think through is it specific? Is it measurable? Is it attainable? You know what I mean? Like literally break down the whole SMART approach so that they can actually get there.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Yes, because think about it. Like, I I want to get better. How are you gonna know you got better? How are you what's that even mean? Or I, you know, I want to learn how to play the piano. Okay, so are you gonna practice when you feel like it?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Because if you only practice when you feel like it, I I can guarantee you it's not gonna be as often as you need to to become skilled at the piano. Yeah. Well, you need to put like a timer on like practice for this. You're gonna practice for five minutes every day, you're gonna practice for 10 minutes every day, what you know, 10, 15 minutes, three times a week, whatever, but you help them establish how to break down that goal and how to track that goal.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

And it could even be, I love this one because people will say, well, we'll just have them play over and over and over again. But actually, it could be that they um find music that they're interested in. Yeah. And like find the music for that song.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah, if the standard piano lesson book has you learning row, row, row your boat, it's probably not that, you know. It's not gonna be that exciting. But you could pretty sure that was what I learned.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

One of our goals this week could be that you go that we're gonna go to the library and we're gonna check out some books on playing the piano. It doesn't have to be, I mean, it can be very interest-based. It could be that we find YouTube videos online of um, you know, different ways, you know, to practice, or so it could be like that. That's really good. And it could be small, small counts, you know. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And just remember to in your tracking or in your um cheerleading as as the parent and the support to always find ways to, you know, root for the effort and them, you know, working through the frustration and um versus like, oh, you played that perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Well, what if they didn't, but they practiced for however long and they still never got it down? You know, like you still have to find a way to uh acknowledge their effort and um, you know, hey, you didn't give up.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

That's I want to talk about what happens if you can't get them started because one of the big challenges is getting them, you know, like you ask your kid, what do you want to learn? And they're like, I don't know. Or you'll say, like, yeah, or you'll say, like, um, they'll say, Oh, I really want to. I had a kid, he was in my class the other day, and he was talking about how um he really wanted to learn how to play soccer because he really wants to like join a soccer team. But he didn't know anything about soccer, and he sees the other kids that are playing, and he doesn't like know anybody that plays soccer or whatever. And so I was brainstorming with the mom, and I said, Look, these are the things that we talk about, like and I'm friends. If you're when if you're listening, grab a pen. We'll also put this in the show notes, but we call these um like our list of things that we want to do if you know if we're having trouble getting started. Um, first thing, uh, and these are all we call these procrastination busters. So first thing, sit down and write a plan. Just sit down, just write it. It doesn't have to be pretty, it doesn't have to be, you know, whatever. Just write it out. What do you want to do? How long do you want it to take? So uh you can't just say I want to learn how to play soccer. You have to say, tell me exactly what you mean. I want to learn the the um rules of the game, or do I want to learn physically how to move my body to do that? Combination of both. How long are we talking about here in the next six months? Or do you want to learn how to play it before the um before tryouts in two months? Like, let's figure out what exactly we're talking about. So that's prepare a plan. The second one is to pick a power work time and set place, meaning when exactly are we gonna have focused work time? Where are we gonna be? So, like what where are we gonna do it on the weekend? Are we gonna do it on Saturday? Are we gonna do it for two hours in the morning? Are we gonna like where and when are we gonna do it? And then the next one is to prepare what we call a production pile, meaning, like, what is everything that we're gonna need to do this soccer thing? Are we gonna have to look up videos? Are we gonna have to um put shorts and and um sneakers and you know, a t-shirt, sweatshirt in the bag so that we are it's ready when time to go like you just come up with a quick production pile, water bottle, blah blah blah? Then here's a good one. I like this one. Ready? Pick rewards. And no, I don't mean a Nintendo. I mean like what reward would you give yourself if you're a kid for doing that? Parents, same thing for us if we're trying to do something. What rewards would we have for ourselves, right? Um then positive self-talk. Do you have you ever have you ever put like um sticky notes on your mirror as positive self-talk?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

I think it's been a while, but I think I have.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

It's so good to have things in front of you. You could put it like I actually carry with me, um, I carry a notebook with me everywhere for work, and I sometimes get like those blank cover notebooks, and then I put some of the self-talk stuff on the notebook.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Yeah. Just so it's in front of my face. Yeah. I I mean a good one for this lesson is just you could even have a sticky note that just says yet.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

To remind you whenever a negative thing or like a quitter phrase, you know, comes up. And I think um, you know, obviously you can make them personalized and even for your kids, um, and you might even write some down that you think your kid will need. Because again, remember, you might be that voice for them to get them started. I think another thing to to really um, we were you kind of touched on this, you know, like when we say, okay, kids, like what, you know, what are your goals? What do you want to learn? How do you want to get better? And if they are like very nothing, I don't want to do this. Um, we talked, we've talked about this before, and I'm sure we're gonna talk about it again. It will probably be woven into many

Family Phrases And Final Wrap

SPEAKER_03 41:25

other episodes. But when we talk about like family values, this can be one of those that if you haven't already incorporated these things into your into your home and into your family, but having um a family phrase where you encompass the concept of perseverance or grit or whatever word resonates with you and your family. So in our family, we try again. Or we don't have to be perfect, just willing. We can do hard things. You pick a phrase that kind of embodies a general thing and incorporate that into your family values. And then for your kids, you might have those more personalized ones based on their personal skills. Because again, remember, they're gonna have to do things just like we as adults have to be things that we don't always want to do, feel like doing, yeah, um, are interesting. Like there's like I I you could talk to just about anybody in any profession, and you could say, What do you love about your job? And I'm sure they'd have multiple things. But then there's always gonna be things that they don't love about their job. And if you just or or their company or you know, uh whatever, um, there's always gonna be something that isn't perfect. Yeah, and even if you're doing the your dream job, there's still gonna be scenarios and situations that aren't wonderful and you still kind of have to deal with them. You still have to put up with that to do the thing that you love, or you know, just to get through life.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

And so, yeah, remember reminding ourselves that hey, this is part of the human experience. Sometimes you have to do stuff that you don't want to do.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

That's really good. I mean, and it just goes back to even like you know, we're talking about this as the as though it's something that kids want to do or want to learn. A lot of times it's just like I gotta get through math or I gotta get through, you know, and sit down 10 minutes, pick up a pencil. Get through this, and you can get to the good stuff. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's awesome. Well, um, I think I have nothing else on persevering because, you know, I think we've persevered all the way to the end of our episode.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

We did it. We can do hard things. No, we can do hard things, fun and easy. It's fun and easy.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

It is fun and easy. Um, I want to end with this. You know, we We wrote this, friends, for you guys. Perseverance isn't loud and it isn't perfect. It looks like trying again after something feels hard. And every time we practice the skill, the brain learns I can do hard things. And eventually that belief becomes confidence, resilience, and independence. I love that. That is awesome. Thank you for hanging out with me, Anna. Thank you. And thanks, everybody. Please share this with everybody. We want all kinds of people listening. Check us out on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, all of your favorite podcast platforms. That's exactly right. Thanks, everyone. See you next time.