Particle Accelerator Episode 26 | Karen Andreas Stephan

In this episode, we explore the intersection of AI and mental health with Karen Andreas Stephan, co-founder of Earkick. Learn how AI-driven tools are transforming mental health support, making it measurable, actionable, and accessible in real time.

🌟 Key Highlights:

• How AI supports real-time mental health tracking and improvement
• Making mental health support accessible and actionable through technology
• Bridging psychology and tech for impactful wellness solutions
• The future of AI-driven mental health in personal and workplace settings

🎧 Key Takeaways:

• Why data-driven mental health is the future of wellness
• How Earkick's platform helps track stress, anxiety, and well-being in real time
• Practical tips for leveraging AI to enhance mental health support

📲 Don’t miss this deep dive into the future of AI-powered mental health support! 📲

Connect with Karen Andreas Stephan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karinstephan

Learn more about Ben at Particle41.com

🔔 Subscribe for more forward-thinking discussions on innovation and technology!

#AIMentalSupport #MentalHealthTech #WellnessInnovation #Earkick #MentalWellness #HealthTech #AI #DigitalHealth #FutureOfHealth #Podcast

Transcript

Hey, 

Speaker 2

[00.00.25]

 welcome everyone back to the Particle Accelerator podcast, where we talk to future thinking business leaders about how to accelerate their business and grow their team. I am here with Karen. Karen, can you introduce yourself, please? 

Speaker 1

[00.00.39]

 Happy to. Thanks for having me. My name is Karen Andreas Stephan and I am the co-founder and CEO of Erlich. Erlich is indeed a tech startup. When we measure success and improve mental health in real time. So it's a very timely and very needed mission. And it's it's something I've been working on with my team since 2021. It was based on a master's thesis that I wrote. It's called therapist in the Ear How Hairballs Can Improve a Patient's Journey. That was mainly around anxiety and mood disorders, and how technology went or is able to really support humanity. Um, my background, my academic background, background is in music. My first line, I was a professional musician. Um, and then I switched to psychology. Management psychology, and then to digital management and transformation to basically get both sides of what matters, which is how do people tick? How do humans tick, what's their code? And on the other side, how can technology support and how can we manage that internal. You know, like like the intersection between AI tech and all that in humans. Cool. 

Speaker 2

[00.02.10]

 So I'm super excited to get into this. What an exciting, uh, journey that you're on. Um, to get to know you better, I would love to know what was your first job, like, go all the way back to, like, the first dollar that you ever earned? Like, for me, it was a paper route. Uh, what was it for you? 

Speaker 1

[00.02.30]

 Actually, um, the first real job was at 11, when I found out that there was money to be made teaching. And so I actually taught Latin because I was ahead of my class. I was teaching my classmates, um, Latin, and their perilous would pay me pretty good money. And the thing is, I was, you know, naive enough not to know that there is more than just being a little ahead of your, um, classmates. But on the other hand, it gave me very valuable, um, you know, insights into what it is like to have to motivate that someone to have to make someone succeed. 

Speaker 2

[00.03.14]

 Yeah, that's really cool. What toy or hobby did you have as a child that inspired what you do career wise today? 

Speaker 1

[00.03.22]

 Definitely writing and music and writing in all senses. So I started I wrote my first book when I was five, and it was written not very long, written on toilet paper, because, uh, and I did it during times when I should have been sleeping and, um, and writing, but also writing music and just expressing myself. And it has always been absolutely important, not just for my five life, but also for whatever I do. Um, in my professional life, it is create something, express yourself, fail. You know, go back to the drawing board, but keep communicating with whatever means you have, with whatever ways you can express yourself, whether it's visual or, you know, uh, orally or another painting or drawing or writing, typing and it all matters. 

Speaker 2

[00.04.23]

 Yeah. That's great. I recently picked up a pretty consistent journaling habit and the ability to write out, uh, stressors or situations or, um, you know, anything that's kind of cycling, uh, through me more often than it should. Like, I even have thought of the solution once, but the act of writing it out, uh, is very cathartic and allows a clearing of sorts. 

Speaker 1

[00.04.51]

 So powerful. It is so powerful. 

Speaker 2

[00.04.53]

 Well, um, what was your favorite and least favorite course in college? 

Speaker 1

[00.04.59]

 Uh, it was it was called creative writing at that time. Um, and but they also taught us to, um, to basically present our work. And it was the best class by far. So we, we wouldn't be put into a situation where you had to write about something that maybe you weren't even fan of, and then really fight for it in a debate, um, in class. And I loved that class, though. The class that I didn't like least, um, was actually. It was my typing class because I thought it was so stupid. But after all, you know, after I got through the whole curriculum, I'm so thankful I did it. I'm so thankful that they made me type. I see a lot of kids who don't know how to type and this is a blessing. So, uh, sorry, I can't go back. They saw my adventure. I was in pain and pain in the arse at that time in school. Well, quote from a famous person lives in your mind rent free. What's your famous quote? It's a very old Latin saying that helps me sometimes when I'm stuck, which means it says Cogito ergo song, which means I think, therefore I am an it. You know, you can use it in many, many ways not to kind of, um, overemphasize your cognitive abilities, but to assume responsibility for who you are, what you do, whether you're building, and also to assert yourself in the moment. So that quote is very powerful. 

Speaker 2

[00.06.47]

 I think there's, uh, I've been learning this, uh, concept of, of be versus do so being, uh, rather than doing where human beings, not human doings. And uh, that quote would definitely kind of help with, uh, centering yourself in being rather than, what do I what am I supposed to do right now? Well, you just like, think therefore you are and love that. Um, cool. Well, um, I'm excited to learn more about your kick. And so to do that, I'll ask you this question. What tech trend significantly impacted you or your industry and how did your company respond? 

Speaker 1

[00.07.30]

 Many, many parts of tech, but I would. I'm just going to name a few. Um, the ability to sense in all pain what it's like to sense and to be able to pick, um, let's say, early signs of cognitive decline, early signs of a mood disorders and, you know, catch biofeedback. And this is this is not that old, you know, it was it was really up and coming in, in, in the, in the last few years. And that paired with the ability to really process in real time, vast amounts of data. And then you put on top of that all the capabilities, um, and all the capabilities that make it so accessible for everyone. That has been a huge, huge thing, not just for me, for a lot of people. And I think really for the future, it's this thing. And, you know, a lot of people want to know, for example, but also the whole wearable industry, everything that you now can try and then you can make sense of it, and it gives you the power and hopefully the knowledge to make better decisions for yourself, for others, for your life, for your career, for your everything. Um, and then having kind of the, the ability to interact with that data, to have it explained in terms that you can access it in terms that you understand to having visualized to have, um, I create examples for you and, you know, interact with AI as we can now, you know, where I had AIS in the eras, and it's just very good at many, many things that used to be very painful. 

Speaker 2

[00.09.28]

 Yeah. That's cool. So, um, what are three technology innovations you're betting on to drive your business growth? 

Speaker 1

[00.09.38]

 Definitely everything. Ah, I think there is so much more that I can be done. A lot of a lot of it is in the making. But we we have just begun to see what he can, what he can support humanity with. So that is one for sure. Um, and then everything in terms of scanning, scanning the body scanning, tissue scanning, you know, being like tech, a health tech, um, an imaging image recognition to, you know, to the, to the, to the that the most depth that we can achieve. Uh, but then again, um, the, the whole conversational, um, portion of AI where I think if we do it right and I'm emphasizing if you do it right, we can make Me so much of the benefits of AI accessible to a much broader audience and not just geographically and but also like in terms of age, I think of my parents, you know, being able to to reap the fruits and the benefits of, um, technology by way of having it explained to them or having it accessible easily. So those are three things that I believe will really propel, um, uh, whatever we build, um, forward. 

Speaker 2

[00.11.17]

 Yeah. And you mentioned XR, I just want to define that for folks. So XR is the combination of both AR and VR, right. So your virtual reality and your AR, do you want to go into more details about that. Is is your kick using, uh, extended reality in some way in their business concept? 

Speaker 1

[00.11.38]

 It is not yet, but it is basically getting ready to seem seamlessly integrated. Um, again, I have to be very clear here. Um, I am not a I'm not, um, worried about technology. Uh, not, you know, being able to create things. I, I totally believe in the advancement, um, and the leaps that are happening right now where I have my focus on is on the other side and the human side, because no technology, whether X or AR, whatever it is, will have any value if we cannot attribute it any value. If humans on the other side, the ones using it, do not feel like they've been helped, but like they've been supported, then you know, what is it for that then? Then we miss the point. Um, and so I think it's ah, can really help in, in so many situations where people can, can immerse themselves in it. Um. Connect on previously disconnected situations or feelings or conversations. It can. You can create whole worlds where somebody can experience something that would otherwise not be easy to stage or easy to experience. And this goes into education. This goes into simulating things. This course goes into having really deep conversations in an environment that makes it so much easier for you, um, to take part in that. And to some extent, I believe it's it is fair because if you grew up or you're, you're in a job of that just doesn't have certain experiences available or certain teachers available or certain materials, environments that are available, XR can really tackle that in a totally on a totally different level. Yeah, we work with a lot. Uh, we we have a, uh, virtual reality group. um, that's working with, um, a safety company mainly. And so we've created all these safe training, um, uh, forklift operation, safe patient handling for health care. Um, this long list of safety experiences where in a very, um, you know, for a $300 headset, somebody can go take several hours of training before having to take any risks in the real environment. Um, and so, uh, yes, tons of really great applications in, in safety. Um, 

Speaker 2

[00.14.28]

 tell me a little bit more. I just had so much curiosity about what your Kik is really specifically doing, selling right now. Um, and, and how you're, um, at the level in which you're comfortable to share how they're using some of these emerging technologies. Um, to, uh, you know, to broaden their offering. 

Speaker 1

[00.14.51]

 Yeah. So you're basically an AI in power platform and then you can download without registering. By the way, download the app. It's follow your kick. And what it does is you can speak video or type into it like you describe in your journal and just say something about today, how are you feeling? Whatever you you want to express and what is relevant. And while you speak it, for example, the algorithm will already analyze your voice, how you speak it, or how you type it, the sound, the space is between words, etc. and it will auto detect not only you know, your anxiety level and stress level, not only your emotions, but also the reasons it will also catch and context and be able to correlate it. And this is within seconds like almost real time correlated with. Other data such as sleep data, movement, status, weather, everything that could influence your mental well-being, your mental health state, your mood, and your anxiety. And so within seconds, you have sort of a pre-filled little journal page. And again, all you did is speak into it quickly, uh, with your symptoms, with the level of your, you know, what's going on. Um, and based on that measurement that's measuring biofeedback and correlating all this data based on that, you can get a message from our panda shaped avatar, if you will. So it's our little mascot and it will start engaging you. It would say something to the internal, oh, um, you know, I'm so sorry to hear that today has started. You know, on the wrong foot for you and you're not feeling well. Um, how about doing this? So it starts validating what you are going through and giving you actionable suggestions. And you can you can share whatever mundane little problem, or maybe a bigger problem or something that you have been carrying with you for ages, and it can deal with it because it has a very startling, a very proprietary memory. So maybe I have to explain this a little bit, but lamps and, you know, these models don't have an awareness of time obviously. And so you have to you have to create that. And you have to make sure that the conversational agent that is on the other side does know the difference between, oh, this happened just now, this happened maybe, you know, a week ago and hey, this happened long ago. And then it makes sense out of this and be able to encourage you to re-engage you and really have a conversation with you. So that's the main one that irked us. But there's much more to it because basically, you know, it keeps tracking your mental health and keeps tracking your emotions, keeps track of all of that, keeps sending you reports every week about how your most important trends were what they mean. It keeps engaging you. You can customize your, um, your panda to be more of a physical coach, or more of a service side code, or more of a chummy school friend, and then converse with it as it suits you. You can create goals and establish library habits. You have a daily goal. You have everything basically in one place that is needed to take ownership of your mental health or your emotional health and your physical health to a certain extent, and empowering people to do that is a huge step toward really owning their own challenges one day at a time. So your kid does that and go check it out. Then I loaded ranked it five stars please, so people can find it. And, you know, get in touch if you have any suggestions how we can make it better for you. 

Speaker 2

[00.19.26]

 That is so awesome. Well, what do you think are the most significant gaps between your ambitions and the realities of today? Like where do you want to take this and and where? What are some gaps that you're that you're finding just with what's available today? 

Speaker 1

[00.19.42]

 That's a great question. Um, first of all, we ship new versions every week because we're very aware of how much better we can make. This is just the beginning. You know, we envision that everyone, every everyone on this globe. Who is of obviously on the spectrum of mental health and wellbeing, has some kind of companion that is on their side that helps them listen really well, etc. on that path. There is still a lot to refine, a lot to build, and we constantly learn. What I am seeing as a gap is really the misconceptions around AI, the misconceptions around, um, you know, how it is dangerous or how it is, uh, this and that. All the dystopian fantasies that people put out there, all the anxieties around it, I, I, I feel that a lot that's in the way of really making this a collaborative effort. So I wish we could sit down with everyone and show it to them, explain it to them, and have them really try it out. Then do it. You know, is what is missing. There's a lot of theory, a lot of talk. You know, everything where people are talking about the AI, but I don't see enough doing. And the people who actually get involved, they use AI and they on a daily basis, they challenge it, they question it, but they they use it. Those are the ones who are at least in the way because they're doing it on a regular basis and they're not trying to be out there, um, you know, making everyone crazy. Um, so that's that's one gap, the narrative, the story around what it is and what it isn't and what it can do for humanity. And the other one is. Well, I think everyone is clear about mental health being a real crisis, especially for young people. And everyone applauds you when you build in there. But it doesn't really, you know, on the investment side or when it comes to like funding these things and helping to make them big, there is less of a willingness to really get in. Right. And I'm seeing thƒat as as a challenge that we have to overcome. 

Speaker 2

[00.22.31]

 Yeah. There's, um, a good friend of mine is, uh, VC what adventures? Stephen Hayes. Shout out to him. He okay? Good. Yeah. He's a great, uh, great advocate for, um, for these types of technologies, mental health, uh, technology. So, um, great that you know him. Um, let me ask you, though, what is the biggest challenge to maintaining a competitive edge in your industry? 

Speaker 1

[00.23.01]

 You have to relentlessly observe test AB test. Be in touch with your users as much as you can without losing sight of what else is going are going on. And in our case, I mean, again, we were very, very small team. We ship new versions every week. We measure, uh, everything we do and we particularly measure the product market fit score. Um, we built, uh, a machine. We built an AI and engine that does this automatically. And we really put effort into that because product market fit is not something you reach. And then you have it and then everything is fine. It is something that you approach. And then once you get it and you have to maintain it. And that's daily work. What is the user? What is the member? What is the customer thinking? What does he she want? Um, what what can we scratch? Um, one um, do we have to prepare for and how can we best serve them so that they keep loving it? Um, and another thing that is really important is to read through all the feedback, like we get feedback and mails and, and messages on a daily basis. You have to do you have to go there and you have to read. It's mostly not what you think. Um, and it's so rich in information, but you have to be diligent. 

Speaker 2

[00.24.36]

 That's great. Um, such an amazing product background. You have, um, to to just really hone in on that fundamental of listening to the user. Um, how do you approach risk management when you're implementing a cutting edge technology or when you're rolling out something new? What's your personal take on risk? 

Speaker 1

[00.24.57]

 Up. You have to. What risk is, is what you may get, right? I mean, if you have if there is a risk, prepare for anything you can. And then when you launch or when you go into that risky territory, be very, very, very thorough with your testing. Don't do anything without kind of measuring and and questioning it. Run. We've run millions of tests, for example. You know, because, uh, there are tens of thousands of people talking to Panda and using it really for, for their lives. Um, and so every possible scenario, everything that could or could not go wrong, has to be tested over and over and over again. You're never going to be done. And you have to be fine with this. Then you have to have the company structure and team structure that you know, that allows for, um, you know, at least two eyes on a problem and that allows for somebody being replaced immediately. Things need to be documented. Everything needs to have a very clear structure and a very clear communication, a very, very thorough documentation, so that when something goes wrong, whether it's technically or with someone in the team, that you can go back and learn from it. So I think the attitude of, hey, this is going to be our daily bread. We're never going to be done. And it's fine. That way is something that allows you to live with risk, to mitigate risk and to take it. 

Speaker 2

[00.26.44]

 I asked this question because I love to see how people do their planning. What advice can you share for connecting your technology roadmap with your overall business strategy? 

Speaker 1

[00.26.56]

 In our case, it's maybe a little, um, since we're a small team, very tight knit. Uh, we do write things down and we share our thoughts. I think the strategies, whether it's technical or the roadmap or the vision or whatever it is, right? Whether it's a short term, long term, mid-term, you cannot overcommunicate there is no such thing. Um, and to communicate even the things that are in your head, it's sort of swirling around. And to keep doing that. Allows your team and allows yourself, um, to align in a timely manner. There will always be moments where it just, you know, doesn't it doesn't gel. But that's why you have OKR meetings where you look at the whole thing and then you, uh, you divide it down and, and and you, you know, negotiated within the team and, and where the with the small team, it's much easier. But then you have something that you put in writing and that is not changed. And where you can learn along the way and where you can see how people, how your colleagues think, how they decide, how they, um, how they how they, uh, assess a certain situation or a certain goal that they set themselves. That's one thing. And the other thing is, because we have we have a no meeting culture, a zero meeting culture, which means we have all in one meeting per week. And it's a short one. It's a sync where everyone is in. And because you only have that, everyone prepares for it and everyone shares something that you can then revisit or reward something that is there. And so when there is a gap or when you see that there is a misunderstanding, it will show pretty quickly. Um, so on one hand you have to overcommunicate and the need is clear as possible. On the other side you have to, in my opinion, avoid having all these terrible meetings where nobody pays attention and everyone feels like they have to be entertained. And the combination of both things, um, uh, have allowed us to have a very strong and fast forwarding. 

Speaker 2

[00.29.22]

 That's so cool. Um, so you mentioned OKRs. I kind of latched onto that because I am a big OKR fan, especially with teams that have goals that might kind of be tasks, and they don't really like the KPI or measurement culture as it really come in. So like, okay, I was like, really get that down. Um, but what is your planning cycle? Are you doing quarterly? Annual like 

Speaker 1

[00.29.49]

 so it's uh, there is no such thing is as a perfect OKR structure. Um, what we found out is, yes, quarterly is for the whole company. But when you are going into new territory, let's say, and you don't know exactly, then you can't really plan. And so you two of the team or three of the team may want to do weekly or monthly. And but they have to decide I did and they have that. They also have to organize and pitch it to us. Right. Um, hey, this is the reason why I feel like I can't, you know, I can't I can't set any KPIs or I can't really do this because I don't know. Right? And then there is we find a way to, um, timing so that they feel comfortable and so that there is no micromanagement going on, but then also that they don't get lost. We typically assume that everyone who everyone in the team is the expert in their respective field, and we trust them fully. And so there is no no one going around controlling or doing, you know, kind of questioning things. But we do expect people to pitch it. Like if you can't pitch something that you wrote down, or if you can't really explain to someone who's not in your shoes what you're going to do and why, then maybe you don't have clarity. 

Speaker 2

[00.31.19]

 Yeah, the buy in from the team is just part of the feedback process, right? You want to give 

Speaker 1

[00.31.25]

 feedback. It is. And what we also like to do is to kind of like reverse pitch, which means that I try to explain what I'm reading out of this. Okay. I'm trying to. As, as a let's say non non developer. I tried to make sense of what has been written down. And maybe if I cannot do this then there is not enough clarity in the sheet. 

Speaker 2

[00.31.53]

 Well so tell me a lesson that you learned from an initiative that failed or any initiative really that failed to deliver the expected 

Speaker 1

[00.32.01]

 value? Especially in the beginning when when all you have is your vision and what you want to create. Um, you have a lot you have a lot of assumptions, right? And then you start building. And I remember we were about a year ago and maybe one and a half when the data just kind of like looked like we had to we had to do something about the onboarding. We wanted to change it. Okay. And we all came in with our assumptions, oh, it's gotta be this. And then this is why blah blah. And then we tested it and it was dead wrong. Like, like really dead wrong. People hated it and it showed. And then. And I learned that most probably what I think is completely wrong. Most probably what my co-founder is thinks is also completely off. And we cannot trust our own God fields. We cannot trust our assumptions. The only thing that we can trust is data and tests. And so we we revamp the whole thing again. And we went with something that did not really convince us, but it worked, right. And so you, you start Excel not only accepting but also globally when others love. So it may maybe not be like that. It may not be your design that you that that makes it, but it may be something that other people have been waiting for. And you have to fall in love with it. You have to fall in love with the problem. You have to fall in love with what the data suggests is the best way. Um, again. And it happens to me over and over again. I have a certain fixed idea and I want this. And this makes so much sense. And here's this paper, and here is this and this, and I gather all the evidence that I that is actually supporting my point. Right. And then I have to go back and say, I'm so wrong. Sorry. And that's so good. I mean, I just feel like when we learn these lessons, uh, they just become so visceral to us. Tell me a little more about how you you've you've talked a lot about it already, but, um, tell me a little more about how you cultivate a culture of innovation and technical fluency in your organization. So it really starts with the people you hire. Because if you hire people that have this innate curiosity and the willingness to be wrong, the willingness to go out and look for solutions and not feel like they have them already, then you will have a type of DNA that wants to innovate. And that doesn't do that because you say they have to go because the name says it or the title, but it's their it's it's part of their DNA. That's one thing. And then along the way, you know, you cannot have people innovate all the time because it's not a sandbox where you can all just have fun. Um, and that's where the guidelines and the, the clarity of what we're going to do together needs to be very well communicated. There are spaces for creativity. There are spaces for crazy ideas. There are spaces for just getting things done, you know? And when you have to get this done, you don't have to innovate just to get things done. And you have to be very clear when it is time, what and what is needed next. One other thing that we do is to make sure that everyone takes a certain amount of time to experiment, or to do something kind of like that they feel is necessary that they want to do right. And another thing may be minor, but it has become such a tradition in our company. Um, we all watch DC once a year, and we take off a whole week to just play around with what is new. Even when there is nothing super new, we really dedicate this whole week to opening up and to doing. Everyone tries to bring in new things. They learned epiphanies, you know, whatever, and we dedicate this whole week to it. It's always a lot of fun. And, um, and, uh, you know, people really would love to do it twice a year, but there's only one. Um, yeah, that those are the things. Also, we share a lot of resources in terms of like somebody reads something. It doesn't have to be related to what we do that inspire them. And as long as it's not oversharing. Um, it it, you know, it keeps kind of the juice going, the flow going again. I think a lot of it is really communication or you, uh, you you found something out or you design something new and you share it with everyone, and you kind of give some context. And so people are feel like, oh, yeah, I do that too. And I want to share it too. And, um, I actually am alive and this is a pulsating, um, product that keeps changing. And I have a say here, I can, I can bring in my ideas and I can test around. And it doesn't have to be perfect. It's just the timing, the debriefing, the communication. Then when it has to be very clear, 

Speaker 2

[00.37.45]

 that's super cool. Well, um. What advice would you give were, uh, or an experience you might share? Um, to somebody who's really starting their journey, either starting their entrepreneurial journey or starting a general transformation journey. 

Speaker 1

[00.38.04]

 A lot comes to mind. Um. I'm going to speak from my own experience. Uh, I think it wasn't until I understood that nobody's going to give me the answers for real like that. I started enjoying my own company in this journey. I have to explain. I for some reason, I always felt that there is some master, some expert, some whatever advisor that can feed me some of the information so I don't have to go through the pain of experiencing it myself or go get the answers. Uh, myself. And this tendency I had to really let go of. So yes, I still get good advice sometimes. I do have people around me were much smarter than I who can really give their own opinion, but I stopped having this expectation. Oh, somebody else knows better or somebody else can give me the answer. And when you start having this expectation of yourself and you start enjoying this exploration, this massive curiosity, this risk taking, to some extent, that's when you really settle into a entrepreneurial journey, whatever you build. So if you can, you know, if you can take some time and really assess. Do I trust myself to go up there and look for things and create these out of thin air and look for the answers and reinvent the wheel if necessary. Take the time and make sure that you have some of that and then we'll kiss you. You're going to see so much rejection. You're going to see so many. You're going to make so many mistakes. You're going to hear so much B.S. from so many people. You have to have this kind of center in you that tells you, I'm going to go to myself. I'm going to experience it myself. I want to be 100% alive while I'm doing it, and I'm not going to wait for somebody didn't come serve it on a silver platter. 

Speaker 2

[00.40.21]

 Yeah, it's so good, so good. Well, if people like what you had to share today, how should they connect with you? How would you like people to reach 

Speaker 1

[00.40.28]

 out? Oh, I've loved to. For them to connect on LinkedIn. Um, or you can also write me an email. It's, uh, karen@york.com. Um, you can connect with me via Twitter and yeah, I'd love to hear from you. We also have a more general email hello and irc.com. Um, feel free to just, uh, share, ask, suggest. Uh, there's nothing that I won't read. 

Speaker 2

[00.41.00]

 Awesome. Appreciate it. And of course, go download the app and try it out. I'm excited to do so. Uh, it's been great speaking with you and learning more about you and your leadership style, how you accelerate business, and also about your kick. So thanks for being on today. 

Speaker 1

[00.41.18]

 Thank you so much for having me and hope to see you again.