From Data to Decisions: How AI is Reshaping Healthcare

AI in healthcare, machine learning in drug development, and patient data integration are revolutionizing medicine. In this episode of the Particle Accelerator Podcast, we sit down with Janice Nissen, a healthcare industry expert and consultant, to discuss how technology is transforming patient care and medical innovation.

🚀 Key Topics Discussed:

How AI is reducing trial and error in drug development
The importance of integrating healthcare data for better patient outcomes
Why healthcare must shift from treatment to prevention
How trust in science affects medical advancements
The real challenges of AI adoption in medicine

🎧 Key Takeaways:
✔ AI and machine learning are accelerating drug discovery
✔ Data integration can improve healthcare efficiency and patient care
✔ Preventative care can reduce healthcare costs and improve outcomes
✔ Public trust in science is crucial for medical advancements

📲 Don’t miss this insightful conversation on the future of healthcare and technology!

Connect with Janice Nissen:
📌 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janice-nissen/

Connect with Ben  @Particle41Podcast  

🔔 Subscribe for more discussions on AI, healthcare, and business leadership!

00:00:00 Intro
00:00:47 How AI is Changing Drug Development  
00:13:23 The Truth About Scientific Research  
00:13:47 Biggest Challenges in Healthcare Today  
00:14:38 Staying Relevant in a Fast-Changing Industry  
00:15:17 Strategies for Lifelong Learning and Growth  
00:19:00 Connecting Business Strategy with Real-World Tactics  
00:20:06 What Sets Industry Leaders Apart?  
00:20:24 Competing and Innovating in Healthcare  
00:22:52 The Role of Pharmacies in Modern Healthcare  
00:22:57 Retail vs. Traditional Pharmacies: What’s the Difference?  
00:23:46 Lessons from the Evolution of Pharmacy Services  
00:24:14 Why Pharmacies Are Key to Public Health  
00:24:26 The Challenge of Healthcare Accessibility  
00:26:43 The Future of Preventative Healthcare  
00:32:13 Why Patient Perspectives Matter in Drug Development  
00:33:06 Tackling Complex Diseases with Collaboration  
00:33:17 The Importance of Multi-Stakeholder Healthcare Solutions  
00:33:28 My First Job and Early Career Lessons  
00:33:52 Childhood Interests That Led to a Career in Healthcare  


#podcast #particle41 #aiinhealthcare  #digitalhealth  #machinelearning  #healthcareinnovation  #patientcare

Transcript

Ben Johnson

[00.00.00]

 Hey everyone, welcome back to the Particle Accelerator Podcast, where we talk to future thinking business leaders about how to accelerate their business and grow their team. I'm here with Janice. Janice, will you please introduce yourself? 

Janice Nissen

[00.00.12]

 Yes. Thank you for the invitation to your podcast today. Uh, so my name is Janice Nissen, and I am actually a nurse by degree. And I've been in healthcare primarily in the biopharmaceutical space at a couple of multinational companies. Um, and, uh, today I am retired, but doing part time consulting. Um, in the, in the area of patient engagement and, and particularly interested in the intersection between technology and patients and consumer behavior. 

Ben Johnson

[00.00.43]

 Awesome. So what tech trends significantly impacted your industry and how did your company respond? Or how how did you see one of your, um, clients or previous employers? You could do whatever you want with the question, but what tech trend significantly impacted your industry? 

Janice Nissen

[00.01.00]

 Well, and it's happening right now. And it began even when I was working at the company two years ago, which is machine learning and artificial intelligence. So if you think about drug development, it is, um, a very long process with a very high failure rate. And so anything that can be done that would help accelerate that and improve the efficiency of it, um, would be is a huge, huge advance. And that was just beginning to happen. Um, when I was working in the biopharmaceutical field. So, um, that continues to advance. And I think that although we have not seen major improvements in the drug development cycle, um, in the last, you know, 20 years. Um, we will definitely see that in the next five years, based on, um, the advances that we're seeing right now. 

Ben Johnson

[00.01.54]

 Yeah, I had a biologist that was really into invasive species. And what I learned from her is that, um, a lot of times to get an ML or machine learning, there's data, models and data really data sets that, um, that if you have to go create the data set, your problem can be kind of long winded. Um, but if the data set exists, then you bring that into and you get, um, maybe additional details about different, um, microbes or you get additional details. So really, uh, hurt the conversation with her really taught me about that. The AI and machine learning is really about the data you give it, and that there are companies that provide these data sets, and that's really their core competency and their core business. Um, and then people who are actually trying to do, uh, new experiments, but by knowing things about what you're trying to do, you can eliminate a lot of trial and error. And that seems like at the end of the day, the main result we're getting from AI and machine learning is to try the right things faster, verify them, but eliminating what used to take years of trial and error. We're able to have better guesses up front, and then we can do the clinical trial or the experiment. 

Janice Nissen

[00.03.15]

 Absolutely. And especially when you consider being able to create, you know, biobanks of samples, um, and bringing together all stakeholders that are interested in advancing biomedical research, you know, whether that be regulators, you know, academic centers, pharmaceutical companies, um, the NIH. You know, when you bring them all together and everyone's sharing their data and it can be systematized, you know, very rapidly. You know, that's where you're really going to see. And we are already seeing changes. I mean, a good example of that was during Covid, um, where, you know, all those stakeholders came together and said, let's bring everything that we think might be a treatment for Covid. Let's bring everything together that we know about making a vaccine. And that's why we got vaccines and treatments. You know, within the space of 18 months. 

Ben Johnson

[00.04.10]

 Mhm. Mhm. Interesting. Uh, really? Everybody coming together? Uh. Very quickly. Interesting. So, um, what three technology innovations are you betting on to drive business growth? 

Janice Nissen

[00.04.24]

 Yeah. So I've already mentioned, you know, artificial intelligence and and machine learning. Um, but I guess the third one and I don't know if it's, you know, a technical term, but it's really systems integration. Um, it's marrying up different data sets and systems, um, in a way. So if you look at, again, I'm most familiar with healthcare, but if you look at electronic medical records, you know, electronic medical records that we all have, um, are not very easily shared with other data sets that might be important to you if you're a patient. For example, I might be in a clinical trial. So how are we marrying those important pieces of data together? That that's really not very, um, it's not happening today. And so there's a lot of integration that still, um, needs to happen in healthcare. Um, and that's, I think an area that, you know, I would put as one of the top three, especially because if you look at as a country, you know, we're spending what, 18, 19% of our gross domestic product on health care. And if we can, um, improve the data that we have to make smarter decisions about who should receive certain treatments and, and how can we prevent diseases, um, because we know that these people are at risk. I mean, that is going to go a long way to reducing the amount we spend on health care. 

Ben Johnson

[00.05.45]

 Yeah, it's so interesting. Um, I think I really feel that I'm 40, you know, in my late 40s here, and I'm experiencing that. I have a GP and then, uh, you know, then I can go see specialists, but they don't really talk to each other and they don't particularly know what the other is doing or what the other what I'm talking to about. Um, you would think that the GP would refer, but if I were to go to a specialist, um, I it just seems kind of, um. Like like it's almost created for siloing. It's not really an AI and it seems intentional. Almost. 

Janice Nissen

[00.06.28]

 No, it's a very, very good point. And, you know, if you figure that, you know, half of the American population has a chronic disease. So to your point, you know, they're going to possibly have diabetes and hypertension, which might be seen, you know, an endocrinologist in a in a cardiologist. And so, yeah, all of that needs to be melded together so that it's not putting the patient in the place where they have to ensure that that integration and that coordination is happening. 

Ben Johnson

[00.06.58]

 Mhm. Yeah I um man I'm so I'm so excited to get into this with you really because my wife is loves naturopathy. I mean she's just all about the and uh, she's also gotten into uh really reducing any kind of like the chemical footprint in the house is really like we use one kind of soap for everything. Um, we actually love to make fun of her for it because, you know, only buy organic foods. There's just so much that. Um, I think a lot of people feel like they can kind of been done wrong as they realize what's healthy and what's not healthy. Uh, the food pyramid seems like a sham. Um, and so this commercialization that has worked its way into, uh, into medicine. So I like I have to ask for for being in pharmaceutical for so long. What have you been seeing? And, um, how, like, how do you feel or what are your thoughts around this kind of trend? From go to the doctor, do exactly what the doctor says to now more of a homeopathic naturopathic, um, process. Um, I'm just yeah. I'm really curious what your point of view as an insider is there? 

Janice Nissen

[00.08.19]

 But you're definitely right that we've moved away from a place where, you know, the physician dictated everything and we just followed direction. Right. So because information is everywhere for us, we are googling what, you know, condition or disorder that we have. We're coming up with our own remedies in some cases. Um, so I think it's very, very different, um, because information is so readily available. Um, I like the fact that people are more involved and are, um, trying to take more control and having, um, a more equal relationship with the provider to make decisions with them and not on behalf of them. Um, so I think that's all very good. The issue that I am most concerned about, so I don't know a lot about, you know, homeopathic or natural medicine per se, but what I do get concerned about is basically trust in science. um, that there is because there are so many information sources and not all of them can be, um, fact checked, if you will, that, um, there are many people, um, today in the US that don't believe anything, that don't believe anything that comes out of the FDA, that don't believe anything that comes out of the the NIH. So I think that's kind of a troubling area. Um, you know, good example is the fact that, you know, very famous podcasters were encouraging people during Covid to take a, you know, vaccine that was meant for animals because supposedly, you know, it cured Covid and that had been debunked. And it was, you know, repeatedly shown that that was only going to harm people and not help people. But so there are so many different people who now, quote, are experts, um, in medicine. And that can be very confusing and also concerning. 

Ben Johnson

[00.10.20]

 Yeah. That's interesting. I almost feel like, um. In much the same way we're we're now learning, um, some of the dangers of the Industrial Revolution or mass production of food, mass production of, uh, chemicals. Like, we're kind of coming through the industrial revolution into, uh, this health crisis that we were clumsy with those investments, with those advancements. And then we've also advanced in the information age, and we're very clumsy now with this new, uh, power. So, um, what I kind of see is we're starting to become more responsible. So just because we can, uh, mass produce wheat, and now tons of people, including members of my household, can't digest, uh, wheat products because of gluten intolerance. Um, we're also seeing, like. Okay, well, what information should we digest and what information should we not digest, right. Um, and this will probably be I was at a biohacking conference by David Ashbury. He sponsored it here in Dallas, where I live, and went to that. And a lot of this, this NAD is a new kind of reverse aging supplement that everybody's talking about. They've identified this molecule in the cell that it repairs the cell. And so nad you're hearing about it on social media, you're here. Okay. NAD all this. Well, so there was a talk from a particular researcher or doctor about NAD and it was unfortunately, I feel like a lot of things in health care are part research and part sales pitch, like you don't usually get research without the pitch. But what was really cool is that she did have research on her particular approach to stimulating NAD, and in that was also research as to why just trying to go get like an IV of of NAD was probably not the best thing for you. Like it doesn't exist outside the cell. So if you're going to get an intravenous. Um, dose of it. There's a reason why you don't feel good. Like there's a reason why nausea is a side effect. And because it doesn't in your body, it doesn't normally exist outside the cell. Um, so what I learned from that long winded here, uh, is that I could read the research paper and I could understand it. I could see who was the test done on. What age were they? What, um, gender were they like? Who were these people that had the successful results? Um, and what I also learned is that in most, uh, trials, they will like pick, uh, slightly older males who, uh, generally would benefit from anything. You know, like if these, uh, slightly older males drink water like more water, they would probably see some kind of positive result. Um, but in the particular test that she showed, it was a wider range. It was a high number of people. And so, um, I tended to believe what she was saying because she was revealing the quality of the research. And I think that goes to your point. We now have information we can start to look deeper, uh, into, uh, the science backed reason or the evidence based approach to these different, uh, to these different remedies. 

Janice Nissen

[00.13.42]

 Exactly. Yeah. No, that's that's good to hear. It's good to hear. 

Ben Johnson

[00.13.47]

 Cool. Well, what do you think some of the most significant gaps, um, between your ambitions, like where you'd like to see things go and the realities of today. 

Janice Nissen

[00.13.57]

 Yeah. So it's it's trying to keep up. Um, I would say, you know, there is, um, so much advance that's happening in the way of technology and tools. Um, and I try my best to stay up to date on what the trends are. Um, but, you know, I think it's it's it's a bit of a challenge. Uh, to be able to to do that. So, um, you know, I, I love the advances that we're seeing, but, um, you also worry that you're going to be slipping behind, um, as well. So, uh, I think part of that then means, you know, how do you engage people like yourself in these kinds of discussions? How do you stay networked? Um, how do you stay connected to younger people, you know? Um, to understand what they're watching, what they're following, um, and what questions they have, um, I think is, is all part of, you know, trying to stay relevant. 

Ben Johnson

[00.14.53]

 Mhm. Yeah. That's great. Um that's great. But yeah it is uh, it is a challenge since I'm around a lot of young tech people. My, my older kids who are 21 and 18. I'll, I'll spout off some, you know, new slang and use it properly. And they're like, whoa, dad, how did you. Yeah. How did you even know about that? There's a way. I have my ways. I know how it is. Have you figured out anything so far? What's your current approach? Uh, to to staying relevant. 

Janice Nissen

[00.15.27]

 Yeah. So I, you know, because I'm very involved in health care and follow it closely. I like to be a student of health care is is, you know, just dedicating every day, you know, the opportunity to read, um, and, and stay up to date, um, so that I can do the best job possible to on the consulting that I am, you know, currently involved in, in doing so, um, you know, I think it's it's basically reading, attending webinars, um, as best you can in conferences. 

Ben Johnson

[00.15.58]

 Mhm. Yeah. That's great. Um, are you, uh, I think one of the barriers for the veterans that I have in my business, uh, you know, the industry veterans that I have is that they, they have this amazing general ism. So it's it's the continuation of that old saying that, uh, jack of all trades, master of none. Um, it's the full continuation of that. Like, they have deep knowledge and I'm sure you do two in, in areas of the industry that most people just dabble in. And so that that breadth of knowledge, I think the challenge is, is that breadth of knowledge is not usually, uh, provided or consumed anymore in direct interpersonal communication. Right. We don't go to the office where, uh, so, uh, I have found an immense pressure and benefit from like, this podcast and sharing on social media and creating videos for my employees. Have you, um, have you felt the pressure to be a content creator in this kind of new ecosystem? 

Janice Nissen

[00.17.07]

 Yes. I mean, um, you need to, um, especially if you're going to be providing consulting services to, to another entity. So, you know. Absolutely. Uh, you know, I think it's it's all part of, again, trying to stay up to date on what the trends are and, um, looking for a place that you can insert some of the expertise that you have, um, and making sure that that expertise is still, you know, relevant in, in today's world. So, um, yeah, I would I would tend to agree with that. 

Ben Johnson

[00.17.39]

 Awesome. Um, how do you approach risk management, uh, when you're consulting folks in your industry? 

Janice Nissen

[00.17.46]

 Yeah. So, uh, you know, risk is, um, all part of understanding the implications of decisions that you're making. And, um, not only are they, you know, risks to the business, are they risk to the people? Are they risk to reputation? So it's sort of taking a, a kind of 360 view of, um, what, what potential risks are. And so I think it's all part of having, um, a consistent sort of Swot framework, if you will, um, in your head when you're thinking about the environment. I serve on a couple of boards, for example, and I find that that's really important that as a board member that we are constantly thinking about the current environment, um, are there opportunities that are presenting themselves quite recently that that we should take advantage of that weren't there last year? Are there new threats that we need to think about? And then what does that mean for, you know, the business that we're representing? Um, so that's uh, I think that's just a simple thing. And it's kind of an old school thing of a Swot analysis. But I find that really, really a helpful framework and construct to have in your head all the time. 

Ben Johnson

[00.18.56]

 Absolutely. Um, cool. So, um. What advice can you share for connecting roadmaps and, and really kind of the activities or the tactics with the overall business strategy. I'm interested in how you like to help people plan. 

Janice Nissen

[00.19.15]

 How I like to help people plan. Um, well, I guess I'll go back to, you know, the previous answer, which is, you know, you you can't effectively plan unless you have a good understanding of what the current environment is. And so I think back to, you know, understanding that, um, from a strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, I think is is really, really important. Um, most of the time, you know, we are, um, planning for, you know, what's, what's currently going to happen in the next, you know, several months. But we're also planning further out for, you know, what are our priorities in the upcoming year or two. Um, and so having both the short range and the long range view, um, is really part of the, the planning process. Um, and then embedded in all of that is understanding, you know, what's going to differentiate us, um, from others that we're competing with. So always having that sort of competitive view, um, you know what? What can we all build together? All. Um, all boats rise with, uh, building a bigger market, for example. But also within that, you know, how do we compete against our, you know, primary competitors? You know, whether that be another hospital, whether that be another academic institution that you, you know, you find yourself in competition with whatever it is. That's also the view that I think you need to have. 

Ben Johnson

[00.20.41]

 Um. Interesting. What? Um. What do you have an example of a time when, uh, an initiative failed to deliver expected value. And what you learned from that? 

Janice Nissen

[00.20.54]

 Yeah. I mean, I guess failure is that is the biggest learning that you can that, uh, that you can ever ask for. Um, trying to think of a specific situation. Um, I would say probably back in my pharmaceutical career, um, thinking about, uh, selling vaccines, um, through a new channel, which was the retail pharmacy. Um, and I would say what we and although ultimately there was a business opportunity there and we continue to pursue it. What we totally underestimated is that really wasn't their core business. And so how were you ever going to get the time and attention of a busy pharmacist who is really incented on how many generic prescriptions they're filling per minute, per hour or whatever? Um, and then embed in this, um, another activity of doing vaccination that takes time and effort and patient counseling and all of that. And so we know today that that is happening. And in fact, I just went last week and got a flu vaccine and I got it at Retail Pharmacy. But I would say that we underestimated just the distraction that that can cause. And many times you can work with and, and have a discussion with people at a senior level who think at the practical store level that something's going to work and you realize that they don't have as good an understanding of what happens at that lower level. And I would say that that was the biggest, uh, learning and understanding that we have. So as a result, you know, you have to just scale back what your expectations are of that. Um, and I would say that was probably a pretty good example of missed expectations. 

Ben Johnson

[00.22.48]

 So what kinds of things, uh, what kinds of things? Because I only when I think of pharmacy, I think I only think of the retail pharmacy. So what is what is the opposite of the retail pharmacy or what's the level above that? 

Janice Nissen

[00.23.03]

 Um, the level above that meaning? 

Ben Johnson

[00.23.06]

 Yeah. What is the difference? Like I've never. You went. You said you went to the retail pharmacy to get your flu vaccine. So that's like going to CVS to actually get the vaccine administered as opposed to doing that at your GP. 

Janice Nissen

[00.23.19]

 Yes. Um, as opposed to going to your GP or, um, you know, a health department, for example, sometimes employers are doing vaccination clinics. So yes. Um, so that is the that is the option 

Ben Johnson

[00.23.32]

 I see. And then and then what was the learn like. So certain things can be done in a minute clinic. That was kind of the shift. So what things can what what could you not do with a minute clinic or what how did, uh what did folks learn from that. Uh, that, that like, kind of shook them up from what they could do, uh, at the GP. Well, the convenience is the for the retail pharmacy is, is is terrific. I mean, on every corner you have a Walgreens or CVS, right, right. So, um, and generally there are people that are from that neighborhood, if you will. And so they're trusted. So I think that's, um, you know, that's why it's so convenient and why, you know, many of us go there. Um, plus, you're in there for other things, and someone's reminding you. Um, did you get your flu vaccine? Do you want to get it today? So, um, unlike your doctor's office, who may or may not reach out to you, um, you know, to remind you that it's important to get a flu vaccine. So I think that that's, you know, that was another learning. The other one is, um, retail pharmacy because they're on every corner because they have a huge volume of people coming in on a daily basis. Um, there was a thought that could they actually enroll people in clinical trials? Um, and that's, that's something that just based on the fact that there are so many people going into a pharmacy every day looks like an opportunity. And in reality, it didn't work out at all. Um, because there's a lot of questions that people ask. Um, there's a lot of requirements to be in a, in a trial. And, um, that took a lot of time. And so, 

Janice Nissen

[00.25.14]

 uh, pharmacists just didn't have the, you know, the bandwidth to be able to engage in those kinds of really important, detailed discussions. So although many of these pharmacy chains have said we would like to do that, they've now all backed away, you know, from that. 

Ben Johnson

[00.25.28]

 Mhm. Very interesting. Okay. Yeah. Now I now I understand. Um okay. Cool. So uh, the more controlled uh environment is not quite in that minuteclinic, but if it's administration of a, of an injection that seems to be working fine. Okay. Interesting. Um, cool. That's. That was great. It's fascinating to think about the impact that, um. I mean, what and also just kind of a how do you think that the general practitioners felt about that transition? 

Janice Nissen

[00.26.03]

 Yeah, generally they liked it. Um, because, um, you know, obviously the, the, the vaccination rates, you know, went up and it made it convenient for them, um, you know, to keep their schedule open for more complex visits for people that have hypertension or people that have, you know, uh, pulmonary disease, etc.. So, yeah, so generally they're very supportive of that. 

Ben Johnson

[00.26.29]

 Yeah. I've also found this fascinating that like a, a general practitioner, if if a person is generally healthy, may only see that person once every 2 to 5 years. Right. Like their their visit. Um, so when I think about but going into a pharmacy, that's, uh, more frequent occurrence. Um, yeah, that's fascinating to think about. Um, taking that burden off the GP. But then, um, I just wonder how, uh, we transition to more of a preventative care rather than a reactive care if. And so what I'm finding from the natural path world is that like ordering your own blood tests and seeing if your, uh, metrics are within your blood test metrics, like doing a full panel. Kind of expensive, but maybe worth the money, and then seeing, uh, which elements of your blood panel are within range? This is something I try to do, really every six months or so. And I've gotten phenomenal just Intel from that. And then, you know, it's giving me like, the springboard. Um, so yeah. Any thoughts there on like, just the relationship that folks have with healthcare and the frequency of interaction? 

Janice Nissen

[00.27.44]

 Yeah. You bring up a great point. And and you know, most of the experts that say, um, how can we improve our health and how can we reduce our healthcare expenditure? The number one thing that they say is preventative care and having a primary care doctor and having a relationship with them, um, so that you are seeing them on a regular basis. So, you know, imagine the fact that if you are regularly seeing a provider, you know, you're going to catch things, you're going to catch your high blood pressure early, you're going to check catch your prediabetes situation and can intervene before you know, you're going to have to be on a medication. Um, so, you know, cancer screening as well. So there's just so much that can be done for both your own health and then reducing health care expenditures by just engaging in the health care system. You know, what we find now is that it's difficult. I don't know, when's the last time you tried to get an appointment with your primary care doctor, but many times it's quite a long wait. Um, or you might be on hold for a very long time trying to get that appointment. And so sometimes we're still finding it difficult. Um, and it's not a good, um, consumer experience, if you will, just to even get care. 

Ben Johnson

[00.29.08]

 Mhm. Yeah that's a fair point. Yeah. Um what do you think it will take for the healthcare industry to shift towards more of a preventative care. 

Janice Nissen

[00.29.21]

 Yeah. So I think if we can continue to provide examples, you know where you're reducing, you know illness, you're reducing costs, you're improving. Um, you know someone's life expectancy by following preventative care. Um, and the more that we can kind of advertise that, publish that, um, communicate around that. I mean, that that I believe goes a long, long way. Um, and, you know, making sure that we're putting it out on particular channels, that it's easy to understand the information. You mentioned earlier, you you read a clinical study and you understood it. You know, for most people, it's not in, quote, health literate terms that they understand. And so we need to do a better job of communicating in a way that that all people, you know, can understand 

Ben Johnson

[00.30.12]

 as well. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Maybe. Maybe the AI can can help us with that a bit. Right. The understanding of the kind of plain language thing. The the medical research. Um, well, tell me a little bit about your consulting. Who is your ideal client? And, um, you know what? What is it that you would like to work on the most? 

Janice Nissen

[00.30.37]

 Yeah. So, um, I mentioned early on that I am a nurse by, uh, background. And, um, so although I've gone on and received my MBA and then a master's in population health. Um, what? One of the things that nurses do really well is they always have the patient in mind. Um, they're the ones of the of all the healthcare professionals that are closest to the patient because they're delivering care, their closest to understanding their family situation and social situation. And so, um, my consulting is, um, with the idea of patient engagement. So putting the patient at the center of the healthcare, uh, the healthcare, um, issues and challenges that we are having. Um, so we started out talking about how typically the physician is to learn an intermediary, because they're the ones that are diagnosing and prescribing and, um, and managing treatment. But more and more, it is more shared decision making between a very informed patient consumer and their provider. And, um, to the extent that we can bring in, uh, the patient who is the person living with the disease and understand what they are going through. As we think about designing and developing new treatments, I think that's critically important. In the past, we have relied on, quote, the experts, the scientific leaders, the key opinion leaders. And in reality, we need those perspectives. But we also need the people who are living with that condition every day, because the experts don't always know what a patient values do. I want a longer life? Do I want a better quality of life? Um, uh, do I want to live with these types of side effects or do I not? And so that's what I'm very passionate about. And the type of consultation that I try and do with 

Ben Johnson

[00.32.37]

 clients. Interesting. And so who would your ideal client be? That's working on that patient experience. 

Janice Nissen

[00.32.44]

 Yeah. So, you know, it can be. Uh, for example, I work with the NIH Foundation, which does public private partnerships, bringing, um, all all of the stakeholders together, whether that be regulators, industry academic leaders, patient organizations and patients themselves to work on, you know, what are some of the most vaccine and complicated, uh, diseases that we're dealing with, whether it be things like Alzheimer's or cancer, um, or lupus, whatever it may be. Uh, so bringing the patient perspective into how they do their, their work, um, and so that that's currently the work that I'm doing today. 

Ben Johnson

[00.33.28]

 Awesome. What was your first job? Like for me, it was a paper route. I'm asking all the way back, how did you make your first dollar? 

Janice Nissen

[00.33.35]

 Yeah, I think I made my first $0.50. Um, is actually, uh, a babysitter, uh, for a family across the street. So, uh, that that was actually my, um, my first, uh, my first dollar, if you will. 

Ben Johnson

[00.33.51]

 Cool. Awesome. What toy or hobby did you have as a child that inspired what you do career wise today, or what you did career wise? 

Janice Nissen

[00.33.58]

 Yeah. So I was a big fan of Barbie dolls. Um, and so, uh, you know, the Barbie doll, uh, craze actually kind of, uh, brought me into, uh, the medical field because, uh, there was a lot of playing around with the fact that the, you know, the Barbies were sick and were in the hospital. Um, I actually was hospitalized with a ruptured appendix when I was nine years old. So I think that also, uh, influenced my interest in, uh, the medical area, in the medical field, uh, very early on. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Uh, we have a cockapoo, and, uh, my daughter, who's five, uh, she's the youngest of four kids. She's she and the only girl. And so she has, um, she has a lot of Barbies. And the cockapoo occasionally will chew on the Barbie. And so I found myself. Like, could we make. Could we do a prosthetic arm or hand for a Barbie? Right. And, uh, I guess you can you can actually buy Barbie body parts, and, you know, it's a 

Ben Johnson

[00.35.04]

 little, little surgery. You could probably get a get a hand back on a Barbie. So I just I just thought that that was fun to put, put, put the Barbie in the hospital after the accident. 

Janice Nissen

[00.35.15]

 Right. That's funny. 

Ben Johnson

[00.35.18]

 Um, and what was your favorite and least favorite course in school? 

Janice Nissen

[00.35.22]

 Um, uh, probably math was the least favorite. Most favorite was, uh, biology. Uh, so I really like science. Um, but, uh, less so on the math. 

Ben Johnson

[00.35.36]

 Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. What quote from a famous person lives in your mind? Rent free. 

Janice Nissen

[00.35.43]

 That lives in my mind. Rent free? Yes. I love that. Um, can I take a quote from a song? Sure. Okay. Favorite song is, uh, Don't Stop Believing by Journey. So absolutely. Love that. Love the words in that song. Um. Love the fact that it was the last episode of The Sopranos with the cliffhanger where you never really knew what exactly happened at the end of that, just left it to your imagination. 

Ben Johnson

[00.36.11]

 Yeah. That's awesome. Um, and then what do you think the greatest invention or discovery was in the past 300 years? 

Janice Nissen

[00.36.20]

 Oh, yes. I have to say vaccines. Um, and it's often been quoted that, um, aside from clean water, the greatest, you know, public health advance that we've had has been vaccines. When you think about diseases that are no longer, you know, um, endemic anywhere, um, and a problem, you know, whether it be, you know, smallpox. Um, and the fact that, um, you know, childhood vaccines are well integrated into our health care system and keeping, you know, children safe. This isn't what you saw in the 1800s. So I think that that's a huge advance. And I really hope that we will continue to pursue vaccines, um, for a number of things. I mean, right now there's new work happening on cancer vaccines. So how how can you use a vaccine to prevent cancer? Um, which I'm very excited about and feel like that's going to be a real advance for 

Ben Johnson

[00.37.14]

 us. Awesome. Well, if people like what you've had to share or want to connect with you, uh, how would you like them to do 

Janice Nissen

[00.37.19]

 that? Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. Um, so I'm actively on that platform. Uh, so, you know, please have them reach out. 

Ben Johnson

[00.37.28]

 All right. Cool. We'll make sure that that gets in the show notes. Really awesome conversation. Thank you for being with us today. 

Janice Nissen

[00.37.35]

 Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.