Scaling Beyond CEO-Led Sales: Insights from Matt Hudson

Data, automation, and AI are transforming the way businesses scale beyond founder-led sales. In this episode, Matt Hudson, CEO and founder of Startup to Scale, shares how companies can build sustainable sales structures and leverage technology to drive predictable growth.

Key Highlights:

• The biggest tech trends impacting sales scalability

• How data-driven insights improve customer acquisition

• The role of automation and AI in modern sales strategies

• Common pitfalls when expanding sales teams too quickly

• Why culture and leadership are critical for sustainable growth

Key Takeaways:

• Moving from CEO-led selling requires the right people, processes, and tools

• AI and automation are enhancing—but not replacing—human-driven sales efforts

• Understanding customer behavior through data improves conversion rates

• Effective scaling requires avoiding knee-jerk hiring and focusing on structure

• Building a strong, collaborative culture is essential for long-term success

Matt Hudson brings years of experience in sales leadership and business transformation, helping startups and small businesses scale efficiently. Learn how to build a sustainable sales organization that thrives beyond its founder.

Connect with Matt Hudson:

Website: https://www.startup2scale.us/

Subscribe for More Discussions on:

• Sales leadership & business scaling

• AI and automation in sales

• Data-driven decision-making

• Startup growth strategies

#SalesLeadership #BusinessGrowth #Automation #AIinSales #Startup2Scale #MattHudson #ParticleAcceleratorPodcast

Transcript

Ben Johnson

[00.00.00]

 Hey, everybody, welcome to the Particle Accelerator Podcast, where we talk to future thinking business leaders about how to grow their business and accelerate their team. I'm here with Matt Hudson. Matt, would you introduce yourself? 

Matt Hudson

[00.00.11]

 Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me on. So my name is Matt Hudson. I am the CEO and founder of Startup to Scale. Uh, essentially, I work with companies, startups, small businesses that are looking to scale beyond CEO led, um, selling. So once they reach a certain point where growth is beyond what they can handle, um, that's where I would come in working with them on, you know, people process tools, um, building the structure out for a sales organization. Oh, 

Ben Johnson

[00.00.40]

 wow. That's, uh, super handy. We might have to talk a little more. I'm. I'm intrigued. Um, I am intrigued as a as a founder seller at the moment. I'm very intrigued. This would be awesome. Well, um, moving into some of the more, we talked a lot about innovation and tech trends on this on this podcast. Um, what tech trends significantly impacted your industry and how has your company responded? 

Matt Hudson

[00.01.07]

 Um, so it's probably I mean, I would say it's probably data. Um, I mean, from an impact perspective, I, I started out in telco years and years ago, um, and didn't really know, I guess the impact that data had even back then, um, before I transitioned. Um, but I think watching people transform their business from, you know, more of a, uh, I guess, a human driven approach where you had much more hands on. You had, um, everything was on prem. So things, things started to progress when transformation into the cloud started to happen. And I think that was probably the biggest impact is understanding one what was capable or what, you know, what capabilities were out there within to getting them to, to a certain comfort level where it was okay and they were willing to release that into the cloud. But I think it it certainly has changed. Um, I probably would well, it would not be where it's at today without the transformation, I guess, into the cloud. And so I would say it's probably that. Yeah. 

Ben Johnson

[00.02.15]

 Yeah. Makes sense. Um, we're finding with our clients that, uh, the vision for data like these little breadcrumbs that if you collect them and bring them all together, they create all this immense value. And we're finding that the CEOs who've done that over the past ten years are in hugely different situations. Uh, I don't even know if huge. These are where the vastly different situations than people who kind of let the data go by or didn't didn't understand its underlying value. Knowing the things that might have, might have contributed to a customer becoming a customer and then being able to look at those those trends over the years to identify the best way to find find customers and convert them is huge. What other, uh, what are some other, um, technology innovations that you're betting on to drive your business growth? 

Matt Hudson

[00.03.10]

 So, I mean, I think automation is going to be part of that, of course, because you've got an efficiency gain that, um, that's out there. Um, and I think that comes in different forms. I mean, you've got sales, you know, engagement platforms that, that your sellers can use. You've got, um, observability solutions that will allow you to, you know, I mean, I think we've got one going right now as far as notes on a call to be able to make sure that, you know, you capture everything that a customer is talking about and can go back to it and reference, um, so different tools, insight into customer's buying patterns and where they're at within the buying cycle. Any, any and all of those tools, I think, I mean that's something that. Even the tools that we're using today won't be probably here within the next year. So we'll have a new set, but it continues to evolve to allow us to have more insight into the customers behaviors. Um, and again, I think you have to make sure that you mirror that with the human side of things and leverage the data, for sure. Um, but yeah, I would say, I would say tools, automation, um, insight data, that type of stuff. Yeah. So let's, uh, I think we can go one layer deeper because you and I have an understanding of the sales pipeline. So we're 

Ben Johnson

[00.04.37]

 we're using our CRM, we're collecting the data and they're, we're trying to enrich that as much as possible. So the 

Matt Hudson

[00.04.43]

 more we know about our prospect, the better we are. But then we get them on the phone and we have a needs analysis call. We identify some goals. Uh, we're having real conversations. Um, I always find it very difficult as a salesperson to do personalized follow up, like, um, and AI seems to be something that we could leverage in that space, but I'm still apprehensive and it feels like my read I and, uh, or order whatever it is you're using for your notetaking and the CRM are still disconnected. And I'm so eager to connect those two things so that I have the 

Ben Johnson

[00.05.25]

 the the email writing, the personalized message writing. Have you seen anything happen there in that intersection between the last call and the 

Matt Hudson

[00.05.34]

 follow up email? Not that I've seen. I mean, I think I'm in the same boat as you. I think having a technology that could bridge that would be great. I think we're still a little ways off from having AI be something that we can rely on necessarily. I think it's a good guide for sure. But yeah, I think yeah, I agree, I think I'm looking for just a workflow enhancement there, something that automatically gives me access to the last transcript, you know, kind of a read by HubSpot integration, which I think I could figure that out on my own. And that's kind of my next step. Uh, and then, sure, if that, that that would temporarily be a, uh, a really cool tool for some people. Yeah. Um, but it also seems like we'll see some natural convergence in the same way. Our phone is converged with the camera and storage and compute. 

Ben Johnson

[00.06.31]

 Um, we should probably see some of these tools start to converge between the the digital AI note taker and then the, you know, well, what are you going to do with those transcripts? 

Matt Hudson

[00.06.41]

 Yeah, I would see I can see it rolling into the CRM for sure. And and again, people don't want to buy 14 different tools to run a business. They would prefer to have one tool that does it all. So I think you're absolutely right. I think it's going to it'll end up consolidating into 1 or 2 systems. Maybe it's a CRM plus a, you know, insight tool like a zoom info or something. But I think you'll. You'll certainly see consolidation, but it looks like, uh, I don't know, your guess is as good as mine, but. Right, right. 

Ben Johnson

[00.07.11]

 Well, what are some of the most significant gaps between your ambitions and the realities of today? 

Matt Hudson

[00.07.18]

 Um, so I think for me, um. I see so gaps. I think I see companies that will go through what they feel is a challenge. Um, you know, we'll take, for example, growth within for my business. Um, their first thought is to go out, let's hire a bunch of salespeople. Let's bring it in so we can grow the business. And I think if if people would stop in a kind of evaluate long enough before making a knee jerk reaction, I think it would save a lot of headache and a lot of people's car parts. Um, I think the challenge is, I mean, I'm an owner, you're an owner. So it's not not bad. But CEOs are not necessarily the best salespeople. They're not necessarily always the best, um, designer of a sales team, their thought leaders, they come up with great ideas. And that's how you know, they've become who they are. I think being able to acknowledge that, um, is sometimes difficult, but if they can, then I think that opens the door to allow for somebody that has done it that does have the expertise that can partner with them. And. And it it takes it offloads that work for from them um, and allows somebody else to kind of carry the burden while they go out and do more thought leadership and whatnot. Yeah. That's, 

Ben Johnson

[00.08.46]

 uh that's cool. Um. Well, so what, uh, what do you think the biggest challenge is for you to maintain your competitive edge in your 

Matt Hudson

[00.08.57]

 industry? Um, there's a ton of ton of competition in this business. And over the last year, it's gotten even more. Um, and I think it's everybody wants to have a business until it's time to actually get to work. And then it's sometimes it's not and they don't necessarily deliver. I think the competitive advantages, knowing that it goes back to what my, my first comment about the perfectionism, knowing that I'm going to come in and I, I'm not going to leave until I know they're set up for success in scaling and growth. Um, you won't get that everywhere. Um, and you're not going to get necessarily somebody that can do. Starting from marketing through sales, through, you know, implementation and so on. So I'm, I think the competitive advantages is the fact that I'm on I'm on for the long haul just like they are. Right. So if they don't succeed then I don't. Um, and that's not necessarily something that there's a lot of quick win, um, businesses out there. They want to come in and they want to, you know, train on the sales methodology or they want to, um, you know, look at re revamping a BDR role, but not really focus on the overall vision. Um, and I think that's what people need, especially in the small small business and startup space. 

Ben Johnson

[00.10.16]

 Yeah, I would definitely say you and I are similar in that, um, there are a few software development companies out there in the world where we're both in competitive spaces. We've kind of found similar that our culture 

Matt Hudson

[00.10.29]

 and our level of ownership, uh, is the key differentiator for us. You know, just the the ability to kind of share in the goal. And, 

Ben Johnson

[00.10.39]

 um, we've kind of modeled our culture off of, uh, special operations culture. So, um, you know, we're there until the mission is done, you know, um, first on the ground, last to leave that kind of that kind of culture, which is, 

Matt Hudson

[00.10.55]

 um. 

Ben Johnson

[00.10.57]

 Which which has its challenges. It is. But but we say that pressure is a gift. If you weren't being pressured to deliver, that would mean you were unnecessary. So, you know, the pressure is a gift. And so we we love being in situations where our work and that our output is important, our outcomes are valued. Um, and so with that's always going to come the pressure to fully own and fully, you know, fully deliver. Um, so if you're and if you're in dependable in that than, than, than people are going to keep coming back for more. 

Matt Hudson

[00.11.31]

 Yeah. If you're if you're not comfortable or if you're not uncomfortable, then you're not you're not learning nor are you getting better. So you've got to put yourself in rooms where it's not necessarily the best, but the most comfortable spot for you to be in as far as knowledge. Um, you got to kind of stick your neck out there a little bit. Uh, sure. So. 

Ben Johnson

[00.11.53]

 Well, so how do you approach risk when you're implementing something new? 

Matt Hudson

[00.11.58]

 Um, I think research on the front end, um, as much as you can, but but again, death by research can happen too. So I think you give it its due diligence. Um, understand what whatever the, the solution or tool or whatnot, whatever impact it can have. But then you you got to take the leap and know that something's going to come up. I mean, it doesn't matter how much you try to prevent it. Um, I think, you know, I mean, whether it be an implementation, a new hiring, a new salesperson, I mean, anything you do, there are going to be challenges. And being okay with it not being okay, I think is going to be key or I think it is key. So. Totally. Well, um, I'm always curious when I talk to other CEOs about how do you how do you plan, how do you, um, do your, um, 

Ben Johnson

[00.12.52]

 connect your roadmap with your overall business strategy? How do you how do you run your kind of your plan? 

Matt Hudson

[00.12.59]

 So mine's a little unique because I'm still actually I've kind of doing double duty. So I've also got a corporate job. So mine my business planning is, is is split two ways. One with the corporate job and the one with the, the business. Um, but as far as planning is concerned, um. I mean, I would say that when I initially started out with this, I don't it's something that I wanted to do for a long time and something I enjoy doing as far as building out teams. But I'd up until I would say ten years ago I had not put together a full sales team. I had hired, you know, sellers, but I worked for AT&T, so they were huge corporation that you didn't really need to build anything for them. So my first opportunity was when I went into data management space, and I think I learned quickly that you can get too deep, um, quick, too quick and get lost in it. So I think keeping yourself grounded by having kind of your standard SOPs of what, what your business looks like and what next step should be, and then constantly kind of validating or double checking that you're still on point or on task, I think is key. Um, but again, you've got to be willing and able to adjust as things come up. So it's just a matter of time management and, and making sure that your plan is being worked like you've got it designed and you're not deviating too much. Yeah. Really 

Ben Johnson

[00.14.29]

 good. Um, and so do you usually use, like, an annual planning cycle or tell me a little bit about it or, and you feel free to answer the question in terms of how you want to set up your new company. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm always curious as how people like to kind of go from, 

Matt Hudson

[00.14.48]

 you know, do you, do you? 

Ben Johnson

[00.14.49]

 Have you used OKRs before? Is there something you like or don't like about that? As most of my audience is CEOs and I think they appreciate hearing how different people approach strategy. Yeah, I mean, so I think OKR is the right direction to go from a structure perspective because you've got everybody's involvement, you've got everybody contributing to the same vision, the same goal, um, versus a top down. I, I think culture is going to be a your biggest driver and success as a business. Anyway, you mentioned it earlier as far as what the culture you built. I think that can change a company quick or it could make it successful. So you don't necessarily need to hire for I'm going to say skills not important, but you need to look for the culture and build the culture. Right. And that to me that's that's the basis. Um, but. I guess. 

Matt Hudson

[00.15.43]

 That. I don't know, I'm. I'm not sure. Um. I'm not sure how to answer that honestly. 

Ben Johnson

[00.15.52]

 Yeah. So I've seen, um, what I have seen happening as a trend is, uh, people used to do kind of an annual planning, so they'd say, hey, this is where I want to be at the end of the year. This is especially happened a lot in sales. Yeah. Um, where they oh, I have this revenue target and then they back into. Okay, well, how many leads do I need? And, 

Matt Hudson

[00.16.15]

 um, and so I feel like sales probably did this a little bit for the rest of the company. Uh, but what I'm finding really helpful, at least for the people I advise, is, um, and iOS has really kind of pioneered this where, uh, they really talk about a quarter being the, the most important unit of management and strategy. And so the, the kind of the common recommendation is to hold a quarterly planning session, like take a whole offsite day. Yep. 

Ben Johnson

[00.16.46]

 Uh, once a quarter. Um, and so I'm finding this interesting as I learn about these different strategies of time compression and how important it is, like how you can just kind of tie the the Parkinson's Law, which is that work expands to fill the space it is most many companies are falling into that pattern where it's like, okay, well, okay, well it's only Q1. I can I can kind of be unintentional about my hitting my goals. And then Q2 happens. You're like, okay, well, we really now we didn't quite do what we if you divide our goal by a quarter, well, we're kind of a little bit behind. And so then Q2 maybe there's an increase in intention, but you still feel like you have plenty of time. And then inevitably, uh, long story short, you get into Q4 and you're scrambling like crazy to try to get there, um, and risking, you know, risking not hitting the goal. Yeah. So I think, you know, quarterly to let you be a little bit more nimble as far as adjusting on, you know, plans, uh, making a yearly commitment, um, especially in today's time. I mean, it's hard to do. It's hard to project out necessarily on the year, but I think if you do it quarterly, it gives you a little bit more flexibility to to adjust on the fly. Um, for a down quarter, you know, if you have, you know, a bad Q1, I think to your point, it doesn't you don't get to brush that under the rug. You got to figure out how to fix it. Q2 not Q4. So totally. Yeah, totally. 

Matt Hudson

[00.18.21]

 Um, 

Ben Johnson

[00.18.22]

 cool. Uh, what have you seen in corporate America? You can obviously tell I'm super curious about this topic. Uh, what did you see in corporate America? Did you see more of the scenario of, we'll plan a year and just scramble, or did you see. Have you ever experienced, uh, in corporate America, something that was being done properly by quarter? 

Matt Hudson

[00.18.44]

 The closest I would have, I would say, is I worked at a startup that that had I mean, we had OKRs and whatnot, but the, the CEO kind of understood and we were in an industry where you had to be able to be flexible. So I would say as far as in general, no corporate is still is they still plan on a year. Um, whatever tools they use to be able to. Measure. I don't. I don't think that they're as focused on quarterly success, um, or even monthly success. I mean, you could you could break it down to a even a smaller scale, um, to be able to really drive it home. But I think right now in corporate, you're still seeing the yearly planning session where, you know, it's February, March, maybe April before you kind of get the plan for the following year. Um, so you've got you've got three months that's already kind of wasted because you've been waiting on the New Year to plan. Um, and I think you just set yourself up to, I mean, you set yourself up for a bad Q1, and then you're scrambling the whole year to try to make it up. Yeah. 

Ben Johnson

[00.19.47]

 Oh, yeah. Totally. Well, what lessons have you learned from an initiative? Just an initiative that failed to deliver expected value. So I made some changes at, um, I, I revamped a team that was a little bit larger as far as volume. Um, I had roughly 40 some odd people, and we were going to scale it. Um, and we ended up we did scale it to 50, 55 or something like that. But I made a decision to, to split. It was it was a bigger organization. So I made the decision to split it into kind of a, a hybrid specialist model. Um. And and looking back, what what ended up happening is you had very few people that wanted to be hunters in sales, which is not necessarily uncommon. A lot of salespeople don't like to hunt for business, but it almost it it hurt us from a management perspective because we had basically a team of 55 that wanted to be farmers, but they they got stuck in a in a hunter role. Um. I think you can have a blended model, um, with the right characteristics of people. Um, that can do both. But in looking back, I mean, we had to switch it. We had to go back to a blended model after about six months because it just wasn't the outbound team is what we called them. They weren't producing. So and this was back when the volume game was still something that you could do. I mean, obviously now that's completely different. You can't you can't do outreach like you could five years ago and expect to sell. Um, it's just the times are different. But back then he then, um, the volume game, I mean, you've got to have people that. 

Matt Hudson

[00.21.41]

 That are the right have the right mentality. Um, for, for sales, I think sales has become a little bit different, um, altogether. Right. So I think salespeople now are sometimes more service related as opposed to actually hunters. Um, how you get back to that? I don't know, because you've got the industry or I mean, we're all kind of accustomed to pushing salespeople away because, you know, we all get 40, 50 messages a day trying to get sold to. So we created this for ourselves. But I think, I mean, ultimately, you gotta have gotta have the capability to do both in order to be successful. Um, and I think that coaching process, I mean, it can be taught. I think anything can be taught with the exception of attitude I think so. Mhm. 

Ben Johnson

[00.22.42]

 So, uh, going back to that lesson learned, the lesson was that the uh can you, can you crystallize that for me. Like was that uh, the outsource team and the inbound team were two separate. 

Matt Hudson

[00.22.55]

 Yeah. So we separated them. Um, I ended up hiring two new managers that handled the outbound, um, and I guess a couple of things. When we initiated it, we didn't have everything set up. So exactly what I was talking about earlier was CEOs going out and hiring a bunch of people before they had everything planned that I've done it, so I experienced it myself. Um, so we didn't have we didn't have the tools in place for the outbound really to be successful. I mean, some of them were because that was just in their blood. But we didn't have, you know, content creators, for example. I mean, when you start looking at sellers, yes, they can create their own emails, but to ask them to do, you know, campaigns on their own and you've got 50 some odd different people trying to write content. It's a nightmare to be able to try to manage, from a governance perspective, what's going on at the door. So there should have been a lot more planning on the front end, and we probably would have found it. It wasn't the best idea. I mean, research in the market would have told us it's been tried before and it wasn't successful at other companies. Um, so it was a knee jerk reaction to a change in business requirements, um, that we were looking at trying to figure out how we were going to I mean, it was a significant. Uplift in and quotas and what was expected. So that was that was my initial knee jerk and yeah. Yeah definitely like I experienced that if you if you send out more emails and you make more calls, that does not equate to more leads in the SDR category. What I have found though is if you do some kind of value exchange and I'm so glad you you use the phrase content creation, uh, and and you partially I the way I interpreted you is you partially mean emails, 

Ben Johnson

[00.24.46]

 but it seems like you, um, I experience that you also have to create some kind of value, some kind of value add like, hey, check out this. We we give a lot of really cool free guides. Free, uh, even if it's a case study, it's just like things that could deliver value to a prospect beyond just the. Hey, come have a call with me and let's figure it out. 

Matt Hudson

[00.25.12]

 Yeah, I mean, good goes back to the hesitation. I mean, as soon as you hear, you know, hey, I'd love to sit down and walk you through what I do. You immediately want to. I mean, hold up. No, I'm not interested. I didn't ask for anything. So I think you're right. I mean, you've got to build a relationship. It's a relationship. So it's not brute force anymore. Can't be. So you've got to build credibility. You've got to obviously offer insights, whatever it may be. And a lot of times it may not even be about your company. You're sharing insights within the industry or things that you're hearing, um, that tends to lower their guard and you gain some credibility. Like, look, I'm not trying to pitch slap you as what they would refer to it as. It's just simply sharing information about what I'm hearing in the market. And then as you build the relationship, then I think it becomes a little bit easier to start down that path of talking about their needs specifically. So cool. 

Ben Johnson

[00.26.08]

 Well, what, um, how do you cultivate a culture of innovation and fluency? Like what are you mentioned, a bunch of really cool cultural aspects like integrity. Um, but as you build your organization, how do you intend to cultivate a culture that, um, embraces change and performs well? 

Matt Hudson

[00.26.28]

 I think it's involvement of everybody on the team. I think everybody has to have a voice in order for it to work. Um, I've been in organizations where, you know, you knew your role and that your role was what it was. You didn't get to have a voice. Um, I think you got to build it to where everybody feels like they're pushing towards the same goal. Divisions there. Um, and, I mean, you can create it a lot of different ways. I committees where you're involving some of the front lines. To me, that's that should be common sense. I mean, they're the ones that are hearing directly from prospects and customers as far as what's needed. But I think a lot of times people get hung up in hierarchies and the way that structures are done within companies, and to me it should be a flat hierarchy. I mean, there shouldn't be a level above, yes, you're going to have titles, but everybody should be contributing to the same goal. Um, they each have their own portion of it that they would contribute to. But you've got to make sure that they feel comfortable being able to do that. And I've seen it both ways. I mean, I've seen people. Literally fear for their job that, you know, if I say anything, I'm not I'm not gonna have a job, which is not to me. That's not the way you build a company. Um, a team, a company, whatever. So cool. 

Ben Johnson

[00.27.45]

 Well, what, 

Matt Hudson

[00.27.46]

 um, what 

Ben Johnson

[00.27.48]

 advice would you give to somebody who's just beginning their transformation journey, or they're starting a company, um, or starting their career? 

Matt Hudson

[00.27.59]

 Um, take your time and don't try to. Don't try to get there too fast. I think, again, especially for somebody coming in new, um, to their career, I think people see they see a higher level position as something that they, they want and they're going to drive to. And I honestly, a lot of times, or most of the time even, that's not necessarily what's best. So you take your best salesperson and you stick them in a leader position. Not a good idea typically, because that's not their skill. Um, but, you know, flip it, you you take a leader and put them in a sale role that doesn't always work their job. And they're. I guess strength is in coaching people. Um, around process or around, you know, approach. So try not to get too excited too quick and expect to move too fast. Um, I did it myself, so I wanted, you know, I wanted a management job. Within six months of having the job at AT&T, and I, I looking back, I should have they should have not allowed it for one. Um, but I think for me, it was like I had something to prove and I had to get out there and show. And it's if you relax and take a second to look at what you're trying to accomplish, you had a lot of time, um, to get there and you and you're going to learn along the way. I think if you try to jump too fast, you lose a lot of the lessons that you. Learn by doing the job like that was probably one of the biggest things when I ran that the larger group that I was able to accomplish from a respect factor, because they knew I did it. I mean, I did the job, I knew how bad it sucked from days, from time to time, you know? So and I didn't I didn't try to paint a picture like it wasn't. Um, and I think people people respect that. But if you jump too fast, you don't have an opportunity to go through that. Yeah, I'm developing some materials around, um, the like capability versus capacity. Um, and there was a, there was, there was a famous framework that was brought up was capability versus willingness. And I think as leaders, we we've taken on, um, 

Ben Johnson

[00.30.16]

 this idea that it's, it's the employees fault because they're either not willing or not capable. And, uh, that was somewhat, somewhat helpful, I guess. But I do think that it kind of gives the leader an out. Okay. Um, and so by saying, okay, but maybe it's just that they don't have the capacity. And so capacity is something that I can help them with and I can coach them through. So maybe they don't have the capacity because they need to be trained. They need to learn how to delegate their work, or they need to put together that SOP, or they need to talk to the tech guys about automating some things. But capacity is now this kind of mutual thing that the leader and the teammate can work through with together. Um, and so and then on the personal note. We we have this self-talk that says, well, maybe I'm not capable of this. So if we get into a situation, we use the wrong word on ourselves too. But well, okay, maybe I just need to figure out how to have more capacity. But if I add to my capacity, if I become more efficient, then I can do. And I'm. I'm a firm believer that the biggest root cause of employee satisfaction is the imposter syndrome. Um, you know. Oh, and at the root of that is this this false belief that you're not capable. Um, and when I think the, the more true statement is that you just haven't figured out the capacity for for the things that you're being asked to do. So, I mean, definitely, 

Matt Hudson

[00.31.46]

 I mean, leadership as leaders, I think a lot of times we fail in and setting somebody up for success from a training perspective, from a, um, you know, a knowledge gap, I don't think I think it's easy to your point, for a leader to say, well, you know, it's it's the rep. Well, not necessarily. Have you, have you spent the time that that they deserve. Um, and instead of looking at it as well, it's, it's just the rep will get another one and been the investments are actually been made. So why not make sure that you've given them every, you know, every tool that you got to be successful. And I, I would say 90% of the time people cannot answer that as a yes. So it. I think it's a it's an excuse. Think it's copycat. But it can be 

Ben Johnson

[00.32.31]

 so. Yeah, for sure. But let us get to know you a little bit. Um, the way I love to do that, uh, is I love to ask what was your first job for me? It was a paper route at a paper route when I was 13. But for you, how did you make your first dollar? 

Matt Hudson

[00.32.48]

 So I guess my first dollar would be. It's. It's somewhat not common. Um, was actually in the oil field, so I'm. I'm from northeastern Oklahoma, so I've got some family that has oil wells, but we had a, a gentleman that had some, some land that was adjacent to ours. And he offered me, I can't remember what the amount of money was, but he said, you know, come out and work for me. We'll pull, you know, oil wells. It'll be great. Um, it was not great. Uh, there's a lot of work. Um, but it was a good opportunity to kind of learn, I guess. Work ethic, if you will. Um, so, I mean, I did that throughout the summers, honestly, from there through high school, I guess, um, until I finally got so good doing smelling like oil when you walk in. 

Ben Johnson

[00.33.32]

 Yeah, Yeah. My, um, my grandfather was a, uh, owned a bunch of oil leases out in Odessa, Texas area, like the West Texas Permian Basin area. Yeah. Um, so I definitely know what a pump jack is. You got to go measure your water. There's a lot of, uh, a lot of things you got to do. And, 

Matt Hudson

[00.33.51]

 um, I was a little too young to work. Do any work out there? Um, but I remember running around in the 110 degree Texas heat with a with a 22 rifle, shooting rabbits. Okay. And, uh, helping him go tend to his his leases. And I had a lot of fun with that. I also learned about, uh, West Texas air conditioning, otherwise known as a white straw cowboy hat. 

Ben Johnson

[00.34.16]

 And, uh. Yeah. So I imagine, uh, your experience was pretty, uh, similar, but, um, uh, roughneck in is some hard work, man. Is 

Matt Hudson

[00.34.26]

 it is a difficult, uh, I, I and I don't envy those folks that have to do it daily. It's a tough job, for sure. 

Ben Johnson

[00.34.33]

 Yeah. Wow. Well, cool. What's your hobby, uh, that you had as a child inspired what you do career wise today? Um, toy or hobby? Man, that's a tough one. So most of my hobbies when I was younger was around. You know, ironically, it does fit. Um, so I rode motorcycles. My dad raced, so I was constantly on either bikes or. He also had a body shop. So we worked on restoring and building, um, cars. So I think the tie back is just one little couple things. Perfectionism. My dad was certainly a perfectionist. Um, and he was not he was not okay with letting anything go out the door that wasn't pristine. Um, and that's something that I've picked up from him. And I try to try to implement it within my business is I mean, time is obviously important, but I think making sure that you do 

Matt Hudson

[00.35.25]

 the job the right way the first time, I think that's how you build the credibility and the relationships that you need in order to sustain in business. So. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah I love that. Uh oftentimes we give uh we give being detail oriented a bad name by calling it perfectionism. But somebody's got to pay attention to those details. Right. Like we do need to get stuff right. So details matter. Um 

Ben Johnson

[00.35.51]

 but yeah. And within some sort of, uh, balance I'm working on that myself. 

Matt Hudson

[00.35.56]

 It's a gun 

Ben Johnson

[00.35.58]

 for sure. Well, what was your favorite and least favorite course in school? 

Matt Hudson

[00.36.03]

 Um, I was a math guy. Um, I enjoyed, I guess it goes back to problem solving and kind of digging in to figure out, um, how to approach a subject. Um, worst I would say, probably like French or or Spanish or to both, and wasn't really crazy about either of them. Um, only because I didn't think I would use it. Now, I wish hindsight's 2020. I wish I would have spent more time in Spanish because I could have used it, um, in South Texas. So. But I would say math was probably my strong suit. Um. So cool. 

Ben Johnson

[00.36.40]

 Um, well, what quote from a famous person lives in your mind rent free? 

Matt Hudson

[00.36.45]

 So probably that's a good one, too. Um, I would say it's a Vince Lombardi quote. Um, true test of the man's characters, what he does when nobody's look good. So it's something that I've tried to. Emulate a cross. No matter what I was doing job wise. But certainly when I came into a leadership capacity, that was one of the things that was important to me is making sure that there's no reason to be fake. I mean, I am who I am, so making sure that I'm holding true to that values, um, that I've built myself on, um, and that's how I come across this leadership. So yeah. Love that. Yeah. Integrity is essential, especially when there's nobody to manage. You, you you you not only manage yourself right, your team can say, hey, I've needed this from you for a while, but, uh, you're the one making sure you're filling. Filling your hours with productivity. 

Ben Johnson

[00.37.41]

 What do you think the greatest invention or discovery has been in the past 300 years? 

Matt Hudson

[00.37.48]

 Oh, well, um, 

Ben Johnson

[00.37.51]

 I mean, I'm sure it's cliche, but it's probably gonna have to be the internet just because that's to me, that's when technology. I don't say business took off because you had the automobile industry. But that's when things really, really took off. Uh, when you started gathering data and being able to use and leverage data, uh, as a way to, to help customers. So I think there's there's certainly some advantages to it. There's also some. 

Matt Hudson

[00.38.17]

 Some people allow it to become more of a a crutch. Um, I think there's still a very severe need for human touch within any interaction. And I think some people will rely a little bit too much on the internet side. But I mean, without it, you're not going to be able to be successful business. So I would say it's I mean, it's tied to everything that we do. So yeah. Yeah, 

Ben Johnson

[00.38.38]

 it's been so huge. Um, a couple of things come up for me there. One is I and I wouldn't have been able to find this out without the internet, but, uh, one of the greatest inventions for me, at least within the past week, maybe not 300 years, is, uh. I watched my wife tried to stir organic peanut butter without making a mess, and she was. She was not very unsuccessful. Uh, organic peanut butter. The oil floats to the top. And so you have to reconstitute the the, you know, the peanut butter. And so I was one Google search away from finding a device that is it's basically an alternative lid with a wire that goes down into the jar and a little crank. And so you just screw on this lid and you turn the crank a couple of times and the peanut butter is mixed. And so I got her out for 

Matt Hudson

[00.39.26]

 a little, um, 

Ben Johnson

[00.39.28]

 thoughtful gift because otherwise she was sitting there with a big giant knife trying to stir the peanut butter. Um, 

Matt Hudson

[00.39.34]

 you wouldn't have been. Yeah, years ago, for sure. Without the internet, you would have never found that. So I would have never found that. I haven't even thought of the the the better way. That was, uh, people commonly finding. Um, but but I also, I also feel that maybe in the same way, we're now learning about all the mistakes that we've made during the Industrial Revolution. Pollution, toxic vacation. Like, uh, our food is not very clean. Um, in much the same way. We're kind of learning from those mistakes. I wonder if we're also learning, uh, the hard way from how we treat information as a society, right? We have all this power, but have we been responsible? In much the same way. Like, you know, we 

Ben Johnson

[00.40.18]

 we were able to mass produce food, but just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should. Yup. 

Matt Hudson

[00.40.24]

 That's exactly what I was saying about leveraging the human element and staying staying true to who we are as as a people. Um, I think some people, especially with AI, um, it's turned into a much more hands off allow, you know, allow it to do its thing. And that to me, that's not how you sell is not how you interact with people. It's not how you build relationships. So I think I think you're right. We will end up at some point if we're not already learning the lesson that, you know, it's still it's still important to be part of the process and being of course human element side. 

Ben Johnson

[00.40.57]

 Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. I almost wonder if there's some kind of truth score or something out there that folks can vote on, you know different pieces of information because we're just I mean, it seems like there's two uh, depending on what side you are on the political aisle, you're telling a different you're watching a different movie altogether. Mhm. Um, so it'll be interesting to see how that gets resolved. Well cool man. If, um, if people liked what you had to share today, how would you like them to connect with you? 

Matt Hudson

[00.41.26]

 Um, so can connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, like I said, I'm currently doing double double duty. Uh, my website is, uh, start up to scale us so they can connect with me there. Um, yeah. I mean, I'm happy to happy to help and chat with anybody that that has any questions. 

Ben Johnson

[00.41.44]

 All right. Cool. Well, it's been great to have you on the show. I appreciate it. 

Matt Hudson

[00.41.47]

 No, I appreciate you having me. It's been a pleasure.