Balancing Act: HR and Work-Life Harmony

Are you feeling overwhelmed by the pressures of HR? Join us on the latest episode of the People Leaders Playbook as we welcome Julie, a top HR influencer and Senior Partner at UKG, to discuss the pressing issue of HR burnout. Julie sheds light on how burnout can silently creep into our lives, manifesting as extreme fatigue, overwhelming workloads, and the relentless quest to prove our worth. With alarming statistics showing over 40% of HR professionals feel that burnout isn't adequately addressed, Julie's insights are more critical than ever. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing burnout triggers and shares self-care strategies to maintain a healthy work-life balance.

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Transcript

Recognizing HR Burnout Triggers and Solutions

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey y'all and welcome back to an episode of the People Leaders Playbook . I'm so excited to have you back with me , and today I'm extra excited because I have a guest expert with me and I have listened to her speak and she is phenomenal on all things HR . So , julie , thanks so much for being here today .

Speaker 2 0:16

Thank you , misty . I'm super excited to be here in the chat with you and let's go , let's do it .

Speaker 1 0:22

So Julie is Senior Partner HCM Advisory and Human Insights at UKG . She's a leader in the HR landscape and was honored as a Top 100 HR Influencer in 2023 . She addresses diverse audience globally , delivering keynotes and sessions spanning HR , payroll , talent management , and she is the co-host of the People Purpose Podcast . With over two decades of HR experience , she's dedicated to harmonizing humanity and technology , fostering employee relations and nurturing talent development . She champions improved HR experiences and organizational relationships , and she's an adjunct professor in HR and human services . And what I'm super excited about is the topic we're talking about today , which is HR burnout , and I have experienced this personally , and you , being in the world of HR and actually working in HR yourself , I'm sure have experienced it at some level or another . So let's just dump right in . And for those who may not understand what we're talking about when we say HR burnout , can we start by just giving it a broad definition .

Speaker 2 1:21

Yeah , yeah , wow , and I think that's a , that's a keyword broad , because I think that this can really manifest itself in many different ways , which we'll get to . But if I could , if I could , just quickly level set and let let the listener , let your listeners , know how this came about in my head . To to focus on HR burnout . It was truly from the HR practitioners . Now , when I say that , you know , my job affords me the opportunity to speak to our customers and prospects , you know , every week and also you know HR people , business people , finance people all over the country into Canada , and they , they I'm able to pull my audiences on for several of the conferences where I speak , at SHRM and whatnot . And I asked the question . I said what is something that we don't talk about enough in HR ? And I asked this question over the past couple of years and I've gotten over 500 responses and over 40% of the responses said we don't talk enough about HR burnout . And I was like wow . And then I thought to myself why I was surprised at the number of people that said the exact same thing , because these are open-ended questions . This was not multiple choice . This was literally people writing mental health , hr burnout or something to that effect . And I counted how many people wrote was literally people writing mental health , hr burnout or something to that effect . And I counted how many people wrote and that's where I got that over 40% number and I thought to myself you know , this is really interesting because I was surprised at how many folks . But why was I surprised ? And why I was surprised is because when I was a practitioner , it's not something you think about , it's not something you talk about , so that wouldn't have been top of mind for me . I thought for sure they were going to say , oh , we need better HR software or we need better , you know , onboarding or whatever . But most people said this . So that's where this topic came from .

Speaker 2 3:17

And to me , the definition of HR burnout , again , it can be really really widely varied . And I think burnout itself , that definition is varied , because we often think of burnout as not being able to get out of bed or not being able to , you know , go to work or calling out sick or just , you know , being generally unwell . But burnout also manifests itself as working too much . You know , burnout can manifest itself as taking on too many projects , you know , taking on more than we can handle . And then we get to that point because a lot of people feel like they need to prove their worth , especially in HR , and that's a whole other conversation . So so , yeah , so I think you know what is burnout . You know you get to a certain point and you know something's not right . Maybe you can't even define it for yourself , but that could also be part of it .

Speaker 1 4:11

Which 40% is wow . I mean , that's crazy in itself , but honestly , I'm not surprised just because I think we spend so much time at least me , and if you know anything about Enneagram and all that , I'm an Enneagram too , so I'm a natural like helper . But I think for me it came in . I lost sense of taking care of everybody else , forgetting that , like , I still need to take care of me too , and so I think that's where I allowed it for myself and , I'm sure , other people . There's probably a hundred stories of how people get to that point , but I love that you mentioned that it's not just needing the mental health day or calling out sick or needing the time off . It's also overworking yourself , thinking that you're doing what's good for the company and what's good for the people that you're serving , and not realizing that that too can lead you down that road of just and for . I don't even think it's a point of not caring , I think it's just a point of just . I need to take a breath .

Speaker 2 5:11

Yeah , take a breath . And also , as I've gotten older , brain fog is a real thing too . Oh , yeah , for sure , where you're . You know we , as humans , we weren't designed to take in the amount of data that we are taking in on a day-to-day basis , and that overwhelms us . And that overwhelms us before work , it overwhelms us before all the other stressors that we have in our daily lives , and you know just the amount of information that's out there in the world . It makes us tired in a way . It affects our decision-making . It affects , you know , our effectiveness , and I , you know that's a whole other consideration , because that's not something that's always top of mind .

Speaker 2 5:57

And you know , I think the other thing too , is a lot of us , especially those of us who've been in the human resources field for a long time , you know , we , we , we've , we've sort of been conditioned to you just put your head down and do it , because this is what this is how we were raised and this is the generation that we come from . You know , or maybe you know , our parents taught us this way , whatever . And I think I was like I , I , I , I have some of that in me as well Like , okay , yeah , you have to . It might suck , but you have to . It might suck , but you have to do it .

Speaker 1 6:28

Yeah for sure . So we talked about the brain fog and even just taking a breath . What do you feel like are some other triggers that you can look for as an HR professional or just a people leader in general ? It doesn't necessarily have to be , you don't have to have an HR title to experience this , but what do you ? What other triggers do you think are part of that kind of noticing that coming on , that burnout coming on ?

Speaker 2 6:56

If you feel like you're socially isolating yourself at work , if you're working too much in a silo , I think , if you , if you feel guilty about saying no to , to , to asks , or , you know I and , by the way , this is easier said than done , right , I mean I , I , I think I , you know I would be . The way this is easier said than done , right , I mean I , I , I think I , you know I would be , I would be inauthentic if I didn't say that I , you know I've , I've experienced this several times in my career . Right , and , and I think this also takes a level of self-awareness , and really looking at ourselves and saying and be giving ourselves grace , but letting us , letting ourselves know , hey , it's okay to feel this way , right , but but really , looking at your , your day to day , are you dreading getting up and going to work ? Yeah , there are days that we dread , okay , but is this something that is happening on a continuous basis ? Right , Because at that point , you know , you have to make sure that you are reevaluating , or looking at your , you know , looking at your priorities , and your priority does need to be yourself , because and you mentioned HR , you know , yes , hr does get a bad rap .

Speaker 2 8:00

I believe that HR is fighting against a stereotype each and every day . Our entire profession fights a stereotype , fights a stereotype . You know we don't get a good rap in the media . You know , if you look at Toby from the Office or you look at Cat Burt , the evil director of HR , or you know I mean and and yeah , I mean it's sort of like nobody goes to HR just to say thank you . I mean maybe , but not often . I say the same thing about payroll , though . Right , people go to payroll and they have a problem . They don't recognize the amount of work . It's just pushing a button , no , right , yeah , yeah . So I think that's another thing , but you know , recognizing when you feel off and if that feeling off is something that becomes sustained , it's something to look into and also making sure that the organization that you work for shares your values . I think that's another really important thing to combat burnout .

Speaker 1 8:56

Yeah , I think that's a great example , and I have noticed too , on social media , hr groups that are popping up . That kind of give you an outlet . It's a safe space outlet , safe space in quotes , because everything on social media is out there once you put it out there . But it does give you connection to other professionals to kind of have some of these conversations and not feel like you're so isolated . So I like that that has popped up , and I know some organizations do that as well

Empowering HR Professionals for Success

Speaker 1 9:27

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Speaker 1 9:27

So when we talk about that self-awareness piece , I want to sit in that for just a second , because I think that's something that some people are scared of , because I think , in a way , they're scared of what they're going to find when they have to start looking at themselves . It's easy to give grace to other people and help other people with their problems and be a resource to them , but when it comes to looking within , sometimes we get a little , yeah , I don't want to do that very much , you know . So how ? How have you seen people kind of reach that self-awareness point to be like , okay , I see the problem , I need to fix it , and then here's how I'm going to go ? Do that .

Speaker 2 10:07

Yeah , so when you to get to that point ? You know , I think it's a very personal thing . However , one of the one of the ways that you can do it is , you know , there's so many resources at our fingertips now that are totally free , where you can read articles and you can take self-assessments . And you , you know , I think you know , reading books , listening to podcasts you have to be willing to look inward in order to see it , because if you're unwilling , you're going to block yourself from seeing if there are any issues , and I think that that's that's very easy for us to do , because we just shrug it off . But you know what ? What I've personally done , you know , is one . It comes with time and , and truthfully , age and being a part of the working world longer , like . I know that sounds really cliche , but it's something that , as I've grown , as I've grown , I've I've come to really learn , and I remember my dad telling me something to that effect that I'm like , yeah , whatever . And then here we are Right . Maybe he was right , but yeah , I don't know . I mean , there's so many self-help books , and I think the other thing that we don't talk enough about and how do we combat this right is by using our voice internally .

Speaker 2 11:27

Now , what do I mean by that ? I mean asking for what we need to get our job done . If I look at hindsight , when I was an HR VP , there were so many points in my career where I could have asked for what I needed , whether that's more people , whether that's better software , whether that's a different office , whether it's a new computer . I mean , you name it right . We've been told no so many times in our careers so many of us in HR because we're seen as a cost center and not a strategic partner that we've been . You know . We've been told no . So it's like , okay , well , I'm just not going to ask because I know the answer is going to be no right .

Speaker 2 12:09

So I would encourage , if you are at that point where you're feeling burnout or whatever that term is to you , because you know that burnout we can call it many different things If you're at that point , I would suggest you know really asking yourself do you have the tools you need to get your job done ? Have you asked ? And if so , when's the last time you asked that you need to get your job done ? Have you asked ? And if so , when's the last time you asked . That's the other thing . Right Things change , so I think that's something to consider .

Speaker 1 12:35

Now , I love what you just said about . A lot of times HR looks to people like a call center and not a strategic partner . I have been in that position and it does suck . I mean it sucks that you feel like you either can't ask , or you do ask and you get overlooked , or you don't get a response or whatever that may look like . What is a good way ?

Speaker 1 12:58

You know one of the episodes I did recently I talked about leading up . Sometimes in a leadership role , you're used to leading the people that follow you all the time , but a lot of times we forget that you can also lead up to the people above you who maybe lack in certain areas , or maybe they don't necessarily lack . They just need that information and that representation . But I feel like this is another one of those good leading up opportunities in that is , how do you make ? How do you I don't want to use the word convince , because it's not that you're trying to convince them , because there shouldn't be convincing , but how do you make your upper partners , your VPs , your C-suites , your managers , change that to where I am your strategic partner , not just the call center , even to those who are listening that maybe they're not at a VP level , or even they're just maybe at a director level or a manager level . How do you start to change that ?

Speaker 2 13:58

conversation . Yeah well , one of the ways is by arming yourself with awareness as to what the strategic business plan is . So , instead of being told , so asking questions If you're not involved in meetings that you feel like you should be , ask to be involved in them . If the answer is no , ask if you can see notes from those meetings . Ask if you can be . You know you have to use your voice in this world of you know . It's so condensed and there's so many decisions being made and so many people you know involved in those decisions . You have to use your voice to ask for what you need , and I know I said that before , but it's the truth .

Speaker 2 14:38

The other thing is to when you understand and when you know those business objectives and those business decisions and how your people processes can fit into them . The only way that we can know that is by utilizing data and looking at the data , but you have to have data that you can trust . I think that's important to know too right , we can't just be using spreadsheets and whatnot . So whatever it is that you're utilizing , making sure that you're able to provide data to stakeholders outside of HR that will help them achieve their strategic goals and help the business achieve its strategic goal . So that helps HR be positioned as more of a strategic partner rather than just a cost center or just somebody who does the onboarding and is a paper pusher .

Speaker 2 15:26

Because really it's crazy that we're still having this conversation today and I feel sometimes that the folks who have made those leaps and bounds to get to that point they don't understand that it is still a thing for so many thousands and thousands of HR professionals that I know , misty , you and I talk to all the time . Right , so it is still a thing and if you've had it figured out , help someone else . You know , I think that's something else too . You know networking with each other .

Speaker 1 15:58

So we've talked about acknowledging the burnout and the triggers for burnout . Give us like three really good practical action , taking steps to move past it or get through it , and what that might look like and I know it'll be a little different for everybody but like two or three , just general ideas that maybe you can , somebody could tweak to fit their own situation .

Speaker 2 16:24

Yeah , you know this is going to sound cliche , but you need to physically take care of yourself , even if it's starting very small . If you're not someone who's into crazy exercise , you know that's fine , but there are . There are , uh , there are benefits to doing things just simply like walking and getting outside and getting you know that vitamin D right . Um , it sounds cliche , but in this world where we're sitting in front of a screen all day , a lot of us are doing that . You know we forget just how important it is to do things like a practical step . Don't eat lunch at your desk , you know whether you're home or if you're in an office , doesn't matter . Getting out of your physical environment to work where you typically work is also really helpful for a lot of people . For me , I enjoy going to , you know coffee shops and you know all sorts of different places like that , just to have a change of scenery . Typically the Wi-Fi is pretty good and you know , just looking at , looking at at something like that is another sort of practical step , actionable thing that you can do . Again , doesn't have to be a huge , these monumental changes . The other thing practically that you can do is to understand where your priorities are currently . So all of us have things that are sort of hanging over our head that we have to do . Now , I'll say work , but hey , life too right .

Speaker 2 17:56

There's a tool called the Eisenhower Matrix , and if anybody isn't familiar with that , just go ahead and Google it . It's all over the place . The Eisenhower just like the president , because he created it . It's a four box matrix that helps with prioritizing , and in the upper quadrant of the left-hand side of the box it's things that are urgent and you have to do right now and then sort of as you go around the box it goes to you get to a point where it's like not urgent and you can delete and that's what you really want to find . But you can also I think we also take on too many tasks alone . So delegating to people who are under you and recognizing too that if they are asking you as HR to plan the party , that's definitely not always in the job description , unless you really like planning parties , that's you know , that's . I think that's another consideration , you know . Find it , find what it is that you love and lean into that .

Speaker 1 18:51

Well , and I also use another resource , the Full Focus Planner , where it's kind of you plan your top three priorities for the day and then the rest of your to-do list is there .

Speaker 1 19:01

But you know you have to get those three things done and I have used that for probably a year now and it does give you kind of at the end of the day , when you can kind of review back over it , that sense of accomplishment OK , I did the three big things and now tomorrow I can move three more things up and it just kind of weeds away at that . I do love the with the Eisenhower though , the delete box , because I think there's a lot of things like you said . You say yes to them , yes , okay , just to please , you all do it , but you really have no interest whatsoever , and so it's kind of one of those what I call fuel suckers of you're having to invest time in something you don't really care about , you don't want to do . So yeah , delete it , delegate it . And even , as I know , several people that listen are kind of HR or team of one people .

Speaker 2 19:48

Oh yeah .

Speaker 1 19:50

Even if you don't have like an HR team to delegate to , there may be other people within your organization who you know loves doing party planning and you know that and you're like , hey , do you want to take on this ? And so there are ways . Even if you're just one person , still do some of that . And I love something you said earlier in the episode no is a complete sentence . It took me many , many years to figure that out . I think it's still hard sometimes to use it as a complete sentence and certain things , but it goes back to just . It gives you an option to not have to say yes to everything just because you feel like you're in a position that you need to yeah , I've been there .

Speaker 2 20:29

I've been there . I'm still working through that from being transparent , right . You know , I in my role , humbly , I get asked to do a lot of things and I'm starting to realize just how important it is to not say yes to everything .

Speaker 1 20:42

So absolutely , absolutely

Connecting With HR Professional Networking

Speaker 1 20:46

Well , julie . Thank you so so much for bringing this topic to light for us and spending some time with us today to talk about it . I'm super excited . For those of you listening , Julie is going to be doing one of our breakout sessions at the Mississippi State HR Conference in September . So if you want to see her in person , you can come September 9th through the 11th to the IPM Biloxi . She will be there talking about changing conversation , new conversations in HR .

Speaker 2 21:10

So I'm really excited yeah , we'll be talking about some of this and , I have to say , really looking forward to coming back to Mississippi , having just been there for the first time a few weeks ago , falling in love , so looking forward to it Awesome .

Speaker 1 21:23

Well , Julie , if you will , as we wrap up , just tell everybody how they can reach out , follow you and keep up with all the things you have going on .

Speaker 2 21:40

Yeah , feel free to reach out to me juliedevlin D-E-V-E-L-I-N at ukgcom , or I would love for you to follow me on LinkedIn . You could just search my name and I will be there . I'm very active on LinkedIn . I really find that to be a fantastic networking tool . I know so many of us do , but , as social media goes , I think there's less noise there than anywhere else . Um , so really , uh , really think that's a great platform . Would love to connect with everyone .