# Untitled

**Jennifer:** [00:00:00] Hi Kate.

**Kate:** Hi Jen

**Jennifer:** We've heard from a lot of different people over the past few weeks, and, um, we're coming towards the end of July. It's coming into summer holidays. We're gonna be taking a break, listener, for August because we have lots of things on. although we will be reposting some of our older, most popular episodes around the renovation process and choosing your kitchen, et cetera.

So if you haven't heard those already, then stay tuned. but for today, we're just gonna do a little wrap-up of everything

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** the kind of best tips, of which there have been many from all of the various experts, uh, that we spoke to

**Kate:** Insightful, I would say.

**Jennifer:** Big time. Like this is the stuff that's gonna make your s- your life so much easier if you

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** renovating. Um, and then we'll talk to each other. As the renovator, as you are a multiple, uh, time home renovator, we'll talk to each other about what we think are our

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** for each

**Kate:** And I think both of us have interesting viewpoints, right? Because we both renovated our own house or whatever, a few houses, and then [00:01:00] we have the perspective from the outside and looking at what other people's behaviors have been. So I've seen the mistakes I've made myself, but also the mistakes maybe other people have made, and I've definitely learned from those.

I'd say by my fifth renovation I'll have it perfect.

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Uh, well, let's see, 'cause next one

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** nowhere. Um, I think it's looking pretty perfect now, so, you know,

**Kate:** Still, if I can get a joiner to come and finish,

**Jennifer:** Oh,

**Kate:** be happy.

**Jennifer:** Good luck.

**Kate:** Yeah, I was told yesterday it was, like, the new year for joinery for one price I got. I was like

**Jennifer:** the end of July. Like, that's only five months away. As

**Kate:** Only?

**Jennifer:** at least they

**Kate:** My God. Sick. Anyway

**Jennifer:** I think maybe actually there's one piece of advice, and that is get a trade. You know, become a

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** or a joiner yourself. Do your own house, and then

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** that's the only way you're gonna get this done

**Kate:** So should we look back on the questions we asked all the [00:02:00] experts and maybe give our view on those questions too? Or maybe our view on some of the answers we got back as well on which ones were really home truths for us, I think.

**Jennifer:** and a bit eye-opening.

**Kate:** yeah.

**Jennifer:** So the first one

**Kate:** Mm, you need to plan this earlier than you think

**Jennifer:** Things you need to plan earlier than you think in a renovation

**Kate:** Kind of everything. But also, I think there's kind of two sides to this coin. I think, like, yes, you have to have a lot of things decided earlier, but not everything. You know? You need to know some technical details about decisions, but not the full decision. Your builder does not care what your tiles look like.

They care what thickness the tiles are when they're pouring the concrete. They don't care if you're going, you know, wood floor or whatever else. They just want the thickness of that floor when they're pouring the concrete. So, like, I think the cosmetic decisions down the line can wait. You need to have preliminary technical answers for your builders.

So that's what I'd [00:03:00] say, plan earlier than you think. You don't decide the tile, but know you're going for a standard 18 mil thick tile. Or if you're going for a natural stone, it might be a thicker tile. It might be a 20 or even a 25 millimeter tile. So just knowing those, I think, um,

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** knowing those technical details as soon as you can is better, and get your windows and doors locked in as soon as you can, because they are such a big part of everything coming together, I think

**Jennifer:** Yeah. I totally agree with you. I think it's not even necessarily one thing that's part of a renovation that you have to plan earlier than you think. I think it's familiarizing yourself as much as you can. You don't have to become an expert or a project manager necessarily, but it's familiarizing yourself with what's ahead, understanding what are the big decisions ahead of you, and if you've listened to our podcast, you'll know that that is the kitchen, your mechanical and electrical layout, um, the materials, as you said, of the floor thickness, et cetera, of what might

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** with underfloor heating, what might not, the [00:04:00] materials, et cetera, of your windows. And the reason that you have to plan all this earlier than you think is because if you don't, number one, you end up making expensive mistakes because you are not equipping yourself with enough information to make a choice that is best for you in the long term. There's many right options. And number two is that you will hold things up because you are going to get flooded and overwhelmed with decisions, to be made about things that you've just never heard of before, because,

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** renovated a house before, there's lots of things that you just won't know, because how could you?

Because you've never done it before.

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** it's, it's looking ahead and planning ahead, and you're so right. You can choose-- Although I was looking at Róisín Lafferty's Instagram the other day, and she goes, "Actually, color should be one of the first things you choose 'cause it sets the whole tone and the whole mood."

And I do agree with that as well.

**Kate:** Yeah, branching

**Jennifer:** to be

**Kate:** shelf.

**Jennifer:** it, but I know. That's very high-end, though. Like, that is, you know, if you're creating art like she does in the houses, then that's true. But I guess all to say, don't get [00:05:00] distracted by finishes and deciding, you know, what color, what couch wood, et cetera. Know what is happening, understand the process, understand the decisions that are gonna be required of you and why, and get ready to make those.

**Kate:** Yeah. And do you know you mentioned there, like, the electrical and mechanical plans, and a lot of people get very overwhelmed when, especially, like, those mechanical, electrical plans, especially the electrical maybe are put in front of them, 'cause there's so many micro decisions, like wall lights, pendant lights, spotlights, and it's why we see 20 spotlights in a row in houses because people are like, "Ah, I don't know what to do here."

But, like, at that stage of, like, when the builder and electrician are asking you how many sockets, how many lights, what lights, they don't care what fitting you have yet. Just say, "I want a pendant over the dining space. I want a pendant over the island. I want wall lights over my kitchen shelf," and then a few downlights if you need them.

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** But, like, the actual fitting can be decided so much later. That doesn't need to come until second fix. So, like, you have [00:06:00] months then in between. You just need to know the type of light fitting. So, like, just knowing, knowing the technical answers they need, but not the end products yet, I guess, would be the thing I'd plan early.

**Jennifer:** Yeah. That's good advice.

**Kate:** Give yourself a break

**Jennifer:** Give yourself It gets hard, guys. We know.

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** what was the

**Kate:** Spend more money on.

**Jennifer:** Spend more money on

**Kate:** I'll tell you where I'd spend more money on.

**Jennifer:** many things

**Kate:** Everything. No. I'd spend more money on, we say it all the time, the stuff that's hard to change, the stuff that goes in behind walls, the stuff that goes under your floors. And the things that are hard to change, like, you know, flooring, tiles, you know, that you'd have to rip out kitchens to change.

I'd spend more money on those things that require plaster to be redone or wa- floors to be ripped up to change. They're the things I'd spend more money on

**Jennifer:** I would go, so I c- fully 100% agree with you. I'm gonna add [00:07:00] in a different one that we haven't spoken about before. I would go so far as to say spend more money on the professionals that are doing this work for you. Now,

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** isn't to say, this is kind of like saying, you know, buy quality, um, so that they last, et cetera. That doesn't necessarily mean go straight into Brand Thomas and buy all your pants there, because, you know, money doesn't necessarily mean quality. But

**Kate:** No

**Jennifer:** certainly not cheap out on my builder or my plumber. Now, mean, do we even have a choice at this stage because they're coming? You get who you get, like, it's not like

**Kate:** There's no Tia

**Jennifer:** But I would invest in those professional services if I could, because I think if you have the budget to do so, it's, it's certainly not an area I would cheap out on, because you will end up You see, I just see a lot of people who, for whatever reason, were like, "Well, no, we'll go with this guy since, you know, the quote was cheaper."

And then things are just not quite finished, or the delay

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** ended up costing more in rent, or

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** quite connected properly with electricals, et cetera. And like, [00:08:00] heartache, and I, I do think the long-term money that you save by getting the job done right upfront is so worth it. So I'd invest in the

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** I'd invest in, if you're working with an architect, you know, finding the right one, a really good one. Um, and they might not be the most expensive. It's just,

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** it's what I would spend more money on

**Kate:** Yeah, I agree. So we're kinda saying spend on the skeleton of your house

**Jennifer:** Yeah. The thing, yeah. 'Cause that's true, those are the things that are hard to change. They,

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** that impact all the things

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** to change, so

**Kate:** Everything that's going in behind the walls or under your floor.

**Jennifer:** aligned,

**Kate:** then on the flip side of that, don't waste money on, I'll tell you one thing that both of us won't waste money on, vanities. Bathroom vanities, a racket. But besides bathroom, bedside lockers, yeah.

**Jennifer:** job. My

**Kate:** Yeah, yeah. Go out to HomeSense, they have lovely ones out there.

**Jennifer:** Yeah

**Kate:** but I think I would never waste money on furniture if I didn't have the budget for it. That can come later. Like, [00:09:00] thrift, you know, take a free one on adverts for a while until you've built back up a budget to buy exactly the dream one. And I think sometimes people are like, "Every single furniture item has to be bought, and they all have 12-week lead times, so I have to order them now."

You don't. Like, you can live with one sofa for a while, you know? And I think you'll get a bit better sense of, like, the layout you might want for things and the piece of furniture you kind of need for a space. And I think you find nicer things when you're kind of thrifting and whatever anyway, do you know?

**Jennifer:** And it, it gives you time. I, I'm gonna agree and expand on your point there by saying don't waste money on buying everything to a deadline, because you

**Kate:** Hmm.

**Jennifer:** a deadline, unless there's a camera crew coming to your house to be like

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** if you have, say, guests coming for Christmas or whatever, I think we all put this massive pressure on ourselves to be like, "The h- is the hou-" And it's, it's like, you know, it's like life.

Like, are you in a relationship? Are you getting engaged? When are you getting married? Do you have a

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** having a second child? Are you having a third child? You've got three kids. You've got three girls. Are you having a boy? Do you know, like, there's a lot of social pressure to just be like, when is the next

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** being, finishing?

So if you're doing a house and [00:10:00] you're talking about it, people will ask and they're like, "Is it ready? When are you in? Have you moved in?"

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** grand to be in

**Kate:** It's grand

**Jennifer:** a year or more and not have picked, you know, a lot of your stuff yet,

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** because it will come together long-term, and then you'll save. They

Like, I, I know I've wasted money and been like, "I'll just get this thing. It's fine. I just wanna have something in there," it's not fine, and then I ended up throwing it away in the end and

**Kate:** Mm-hmm.

**Jennifer:** else, you

**Kate:** Yeah, just wait a while. The only other thing that I would add to that, don't waste money on lighting. No, I know you love lighting.

**Jennifer:** dare

**Kate:** not what I mean. No, what I mean is lighting is something that can be reasonably easily changed down the line as well. So I, I sometimes say to people, because sometimes you need 50-plus light fittings in a house.

When you add them all up, like all the pendants and spots and everything, and people are like, "Ah, that's so many lights, and lights are hundreds a piece, like how the hell do I budget for this?" I always say to people, "Do you know the little ceramic or kind of like plaster kind of up lighters, wall lights?"

You know, those kind of basic ones are, like, 20, [00:11:00] 30 quid a pop. They look perfect. They'll be painted into the walls. Just put them up for now. In a year time, if you wanna change them out for something fancy or some other brand or a different pendant, it's reasonably easy to change those things. They're all outside that skeleton we were talking about.

So, like, while I love really nice light fittings, not everyone has the budget to put all the nice ones in at the very outset, I'd say.

**Jennifer:** totally. And with, you know, if you do see something you love with that time, maybe you keep an eye on it and it comes up in a sale, or you see it secondhand or something,

**Kate:** Exactly.

**Jennifer:** thing that you didn't expect to, you know.

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** 'Cause

**Kate:** Sometimes.

**Jennifer:** in a rush, don't we, too, of being

**Kate:** Hmm

**Jennifer:** you're in the thick of it, and then you kind of, you get familiar what the good brands are and what the nice decor is and blah, blah, blah, blah.

But actually a year down the line, that might not be your core interest anymore,

**Kate:** Exactly

**Jennifer:** you know So yeah, that's a really good point, I think.

**Kate:** Exactly. So number four is do this to make the build go smoothly. Like we both say it all the time, communicate. That's all you need to do.

**Jennifer:** Communicate.

**Kate:** Communicate. Yeah.

**Jennifer:** Stop

**Kate:** And be fast

**Jennifer:** [00:12:00] Don't beat around the bush.

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** the person who's doing the job what you want and why and when. Ask them what they need from you. Communicate and

**Kate:** And our, our trade said that as well when they answered. A lot of them said, you know, do it to runs maybe tell us, communicate. As soon as you know something has changed or whatever, tell us. And I think, like, we can be reluctant to do it 'cause we feel like we've made a mistake or something has changed and I'm gonna cause hassle.

You'll cause more hassle by not telling them. So just communicate soon, communicate effectively, and communicate purposefully. Yeah, that's what I would do.

**Jennifer:** it. The key to life really, isn't it? Good communication.

**Kate:** easier said than done, easier said than done sometimes. Sometimes you just don't fucking feel like talking to people.

**Jennifer:** Sometimes you

**Kate:** No.

**Jennifer:** Sometimes you

**Kate:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** wanna go

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** day, and that- that's good communication too. I don't know. Anyway, okay, the last question was

**Kate:** The biggest mistake homeowners make. Uh, I kind of go back to one of the earlier ones of trying to do too much too soon, trying to have all the answers up [00:13:00] front. And I think people get so bogged down and so flustered when all of those things come at once. Whereas I feel like if they just know the mistake they make is probably asking the builder, "What do you need from me?

What technical information do you need from me and by when?" So asking the builder for those, those few key milestones. When's the concrete being poured? When is first fix starting? And then you can have those answers that he or they need by then

**Jennifer:** Yeah. That is totally true. I totally agree with that. Uh, my one, I think, my biggest mistake is, uh, having all these ideas, plans, pictures, things that you want, shopping list, that are not based on how you actually live in the house. So you might, you know, have something, have a whatever picked out, I don't know, a kitchen color picked out, and then someone says to you, "Oh, this kitchen color is not for X reason.

It's gonna make your kitchen look XYZ." And then somebody else says something else, and then you're round in circles 50 different times, and you've been down a million [00:14:00] different Pinterest rabbit holes, and you've got boards everywhere. And what you haven't done is stopped and said, "What do I like? What works for me?

Is this gonna be easy to clean for me? Is this a color that makes me feel in a certain way? Does this have enough storage built in for where I put my things? Is this, you know, a kitchen for a baker or a kitchen for a person who makes roast dinners every Sunday?" think being really, doing a very honest assessment of your life, what you need.

I think, like, a big one for that, I think, is, like, guest bedrooms and stuff like that, and people just m- maybe not using the space that they have 'cause they're like, "Oh, but i- if line someone wants to stay or somebody comes over or we need to sell the house or whatever," just designing for other people. That's

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** That was a long-winded way of me saying the biggest mistake other people make is designing for other people and some other life that isn't actually you and your

**Kate:** Your day-to-day. If it's not how you use the space 90% of the time, you shouldn't be designing like that.

**Jennifer:** Exactly. And does

**Kate:** I

**Jennifer:** have to make a few sacrifices? That's fine, you know?

**Kate:** Yeah, exactly. [00:15:00] And to be honest, we can't, we can't all afford having just an empty room that has no function 90% of the time, not in today's climate.

**Jennifer:** stay in a hotel

**Kate:** I know, yeah.

**Jennifer:** or whatever, you know?

**Kate:** Yeah, I- mine is an overflow wardrobe space.

**Jennifer:** Yeah. As it should be, 'cause you need it. It's your

**Kate:** Yeah, you need a day-to-day.

**Jennifer:** Unless your guests are paying rent there, then,

**Kate:** Yeah. But that was, like, that was my takeaway from a lot of the professionals, it was like, you know, know what's coming down the line at you, communicate. And like I loved, was it, was it... Who said it? I think it was Ronan the electrician said, like,

**Jennifer:** or something?

**Kate:** he said, um, the biggest mistake homeowners make is thinking they don't have to be part of that walkthrough, that electrical walkthrough, mechanical walkthrough, and some of those walkthroughs or trades may seem very technical and like they won't affect you, but they do.

Like, you have to live in the house, like more than the architect does or anything else. So like, you should be there for those walkthroughs 'cause you might spot stuff that other people, [00:16:00] um, don't. So I just, I thought that was kind of insightful and an interesting perspective. You know, you'd think, you'd think having not gone through this a few times that like, "Oh, they probably don't want me there.

I'm just gonna be in the way. I- I'm not technical or I'm not the electricians."

**Jennifer:** I can just tell them yes over email, do

**Kate:** Exactly, but like the, the pieces of information you bring are different to everyone else, so it's always worth being there for those major walkthroughs, I think

**Jennifer:** And ask questions and be like, "Why? Why are we putting this there? Where could, where else would that go?" And yeah.

**Kate:** That's actually another mistake, no? Is that not another mistake? People don't take enough pictures

**Jennifer:** Oh,

**Kate:** and ask enough questions.

**Jennifer:** of

**Kate:** Take pictures. Before the walls are closed in, before the concrete's poured, you see your underfloor pipes, take pictures, take videos. You will reference those again. You will, will, will.

Do it.

**Jennifer:** Document everything, have it all written

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** And yeah, to go back, someone else said, I think maybe it was Jason in the builder episode or was it the plumber? I can't remember, but just said, "We want- we can't know what's in your head until you tell us. Like, you,

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** to get into your head, you know?

We want you [00:17:00] to tell us what you're thinking." And I think

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** advice 'cause they don't know. They will

**Kate:** Yeah. Absolutely.

**Jennifer:** Okay,

**Kate:** like, this season was useful for people. I think it was, 'cause we got a lot of good feedback from people and a lot of, like, you know, um, questions and follow-on and stuff. So, like, I don't know, I think it was one of the more informative seasons for me anyway, but I love this kind of technical constructions.

**Jennifer:** there's always a couple of things in every episode as well that I learn too, that I was like, "Oh yeah, that's actually great advice."

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** So yeah, thanks for all your feedback, and if you have any more, if you thought it was good, if you got tips from it, let us know.

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** if you'd like us to do more of those,

**Kate:** Mm-hmm. Or is there another trade or professional services person or people that you'd like to hear from that we didn't have on? We kinda tried to keep it to trades this time.

**Jennifer:** services, interior designers, architects, mortgage advice, quantity surveyors.

**Kate:** Hmm.

**Jennifer:** listener, if you s- think that's a good idea, let us know in the

**Kate:** Or if you're one of those experts, reach out.

**Jennifer:** [00:18:00] Yeah. Yeah. Please do

**Kate:** Yeah. And we will see you after our well-earned break

**Jennifer:** Have a great summer.

**Kate:** Yeah

**Jennifer:** the weather continue. Oh, that's a bad thing to say, isn't it? get nice

**Kate:** No.

**Jennifer:** about that?

**Kate:** May it continue. Just minus the hosepipe ban. See you later. Bye

**Jennifer:** Welcome h-