Episode 9 - Expert Q&A - Farrelly & Co Painting

Kate and Jenny are joined by Rachel and Alan - professional painters and founders of Farrelly & Co, an Irish premium painting company. Rachel and Alan answer lots of listener-submitted questions about choosing the right colours, finding the right painter, and taking on a DIY painting project.

Items mentioned:

Off white paint colours mentioned:
- Trig - Farrelly & Co
- Milk Teeth - Colourtrend
- Arctic Blond - Colourtrend
- Schoolhouse White - Farrow & Ball
- Sandycove - Farrelly & Co (green undertones)

Coloured paint colours mentioned:
- Invisible Green - Edward Bulmer
- Fremantle - Farrelly & Co (Aubergine)
- London Clay - Farrow & Ball (Aubergine / Brown)
- India Yellow - Farrow & Ball (dark yellow)

Sanders and tools:
- Festool - https://www.festool.ie/

Caulk:
- Siroflex

Painter’s tape:
- Low tack Fleetwood tape


High gloss front door painting:
- @zkpainting on Instagram

Transcript

Episode 9 - Farrelly & Co ask the expert 4th March 2024

Jen: [00:00:00] You are listening to rip it up the renovations podcast. 

Kate: hi, I'm Kate. I run the Instagram page @victorianrathmines

Jen: And I'm Jenny. I run the Instagram account @workerscottage.

Kate: This podcast is all about renovation and interiors from the renovator's perspective. We've been through it a few times between us and it hasn't scared us off. In fact 

Jen: we loved it so if you are planning to do up your own home you can expect to hear lots of advice from our own experience along with plenty of tips and inspiration.

Episode intro

This is episode nine and we are joined by Rachel and Alan professional painters and founders of Farrelly and co a new Irish paint company. They are here to answer all of your listener submitted questions about painting and colors. 

Episode body

Jen: Welcome back to the pod. Hi, Kate. Hi, Jen. And hi, Rachel and Alan from Farrelly and Co. Paint. So anyone who listened to a couple of episodes previously, we did an episode on paint colors, [00:01:00] and we got so many questions. So many questions. I don't 

Kate: think I've ever gotten as much of a response to a question box.

Yeah. Everyone wants to know about paint and colors because, as I told you in my last episode, I messed up my first house. I paint colors. You paint in your purple bedroom. I paint in purple house. My husband was displeased to say 

the least. But yeah. 

Jen: And it's hard. Like there's so much in it. It's such a huge topic.

It's, it's one thing that every single person in every single house has to battle with. And there's. A million, billion paint colors as we discovered in our last colors and here to bring us more paint colors. So welcome. Thank you. guys for having us. Yeah. 

Rachel: Looking forward to it. 

Jen: Okay. So we put out a question on Instagram and lots of you, sent them in.

So we have collated all of these. We're going to drill Rachel and Alan. You're going to get so much information and tips about what to do if you're painting your house from this episode. Let's dive in. Yeah. 

Kate: So tell me 

Rachel: who are Farling Co. Hmm. Who are we, ? Sure. Yeah, [00:02:00] good question. So we're a premium residential painting company based in Dublin.

So we were in Australia for a few years. We came back right before Covid hit. Luckily we managed to escape. And we set up Farley Co then in early 2020. Yeah. Initially as a restoration, high-end painting company. And then in the last. Two years. We have also developed our own paint brand as well.

So it's non-toxic vegan really, really pigmented, which I know we we'll go into a bit later on. We love that. Yeah. , we love pigment. . . But yeah, so that's, that's kind of who we are. 

Alan: Yeah. I suppose we're husband and wife as well is a, which is a side note. . Don't forget that. 

Kate: Don't forget that. Yeah. And we talked about in our first.

Your Peel Stick Samples. Yes. Oh my goodness. Makes such a difference. Now 

Rachel: painting huge squares all over your walls. They, and like the feedback on them has been absolutely amazing. So they are Peel Stick Samples. We initially had them in the A5, but then we increased to the A4 after a bit of feedback.

Obviously the bigger the sample, the better. And so they're made with real [00:03:00] paint. And I know we spoke about it before, but. Often when you're putting samples up on walls, you're putting them over other colours. So this immediately eliminates the colour that's already behind it so straight away. You can see what the colour is going to look like.

It's more true. More true, exactly, yeah. And what I love as 

Jen: well is that you can bring it from room to room. So if you're painting a sample on a wall, that might look fantastic in your kitchen that has a lovely south facing window and it's a certain colour. At nine in the morning. At nine in the morning!

And then you go and you paint your living room which you just haven't tested that sample in and it can be a completely different colour. Yes, exactly, and that's so 

Rachel: important. Like we always say Like move that sample around like every hour, move it every hour, bring it to all the different rooms until you are 100 percent sure that that is the color, you know, like, because it can just be so different from Instagram to your friend's house, to your living room.

Like it just, it's so important to just keep moving them around until you find the color that you like. So, 

Kate: we had a million questions. Million? Billion? A million, billion, yeah. Like Gem said. So, let's kick into those because we have a lot to get [00:04:00] through. And one that came up time and time again. My painter tells me that Farrow Ball is shit paint and this paint is good.

So, tell me, Alan, what makes good paint to paint with? What makes bad paint? 

Alan: I suppose, what makes good paint for a painter is to be able to I think it's important to, to to stand behind the coverage of it. So , when a painter knows that they can , get away with in is a term in the, in the painting industry, if they can get away with two coats with this certain brand, they're not going to steer to another brand because they haven't got as much trust in it.

So that would be, that would be my of it. Also, we have found that we've had painters message us and they'd say. God, how are you using all that farrow and ball or all that little green in a, in a house? It's so expensive. But we'd always say, well, the client is paying for it.

You're not paying for it. So the client has it. So it's the client's expense. So sometimes it's, it's an expense thing and then maybe it's just. [00:05:00] What you're used to. And in the grand 

Kate: scheme of things, it's not that expensive relative to other finishes in your house. And that's such a major impact.

Yeah, 

Alan: absolutely . And If you can stand by like the pigments in the let's say more expensive paints. 

Kate: Mm 

hmm 

Alan: The coverages, , phenomenal. It's the longevity as well. Because there's 

Jen: always cost needs to be taken in consideration over years. How long you're gonna be living in the house. So if you have Maybe there's a bit more of an upfront expense, but if that's going to last way longer or get better coverage than something else Yeah, then it's not more expensive at all actually in the long run.

And I 

Rachel: think you touched on it in the colour episode, what you're paying for is the pigment. So although maybe it is more of an upfront cost, it's going to take less time to apply, which means your painter is going to charge less and it's going to last longer. So although it is a more upfront expense, it is, it's It's, it's worth it in the end.

And I think 

Alan: what you've got to remember here is, like you said, it is minimal because if you're going with a full renovation, all the work or all the money that's gone into underneath the, underneath the foundations and all of [00:06:00] this, and then an extra few hundred Euro. You should, you should go that extra mile for, for the longevity of it.

And 

Kate: when you look at it per square meter, it's probably quite a small cost. Relative to like a hundred per square meter you might spend on tiles or wood flooring or something like that. That's very true, yeah. I think it's, it's an important coverage area that people kind of forget about sometimes.

Definitely, definitely. Okay, so you think expensive paint brands are worth it. Have you found any kind of like budget ones that you think are good? Maybe if you're not, if 

Jen: someone's doing up their house and they're not 100 percent sure about the colour, or they want something that might last a year or two, and then they'll really decide, 

Alan: The lower end, we would say, Fleetwood is quite good value for money. I would say. I have that on my 

Jen: exterior, my house exterior, yeah. Okay. Head up on, yeah. 

Alan: To us, they're very good value for money. Then color trend will be another mid middle of the road. Value wise. I think it's quite good. Okay. 

Kate: . My husband has his head to toe in color trend. Is color matching ever good? Like, do you think it's ever true to the [00:07:00] original colors? It's 

Alan: to answer that question? No, it's not true. It's probably 90%. Some, some shops might get it really close to you, but then they always say, they always have a caveat to me.

They say, are you matching up to like, if, if I'm painting one cabinet door, are you matching up to the original color? Cause it's going to stand out like, like a sort of tone, but maybe to the naked eye when you go in and you go, Oh, that is X. But it doesn't ever, 

Rachel: no, no, it doesn't. I think also most people choose a color because they love the color.

So it's hard then if you are going to color match it, there's some really good color matches and there's some really bad color matches. So if you love a color and the reason you're choosing that is not for the quality of the paint or because you love the brand, you love the color. The safest thing is just to buy.

The original. The original, yeah. Cause I 

Jen: guess a lot goes into that in R& D, right, in a leading company, I mean it's really all about what colour is it at the end of the day and then things I covered, of course it's really important when somebody's putting [00:08:00] it on, but you're buying it for the colours, so get the right colour.

And I 

Rachel: think with the colour matching, it's the undertones that tend to be slightly off and then even when we were doing our development, like you'd be looking at colours and immediately because the undertone wasn't what you wanted, you didn't like that color. Yeah. It just plays such a difference. So I might explain this one, 

Jen: because undertones is kind of a difficult enough concept.

I wrote an article about this and I was ages researching it. The idea is that every single color is a result of at least two colors being mixed together to make that color. Everyone cast your mind back to primary school when you've got Morla and you're mixing them together and you've got your blue and your yellow and it makes green.

So if you've a bit more blue It's kind of more of a bluey green if you've a bit more yellow It's more of a yellowy green and then as colors get more complex because there are billions of them You could be mixing two three four colors together And so you could have what maybe you know It looks like an off white, but has a bit of brown underneath it, or a bit of purple as Kate discovered underneath it.

Or, you know, a bit of yellow as we all used to love in our tones back in the day. So [00:09:00] it's so, so important because it's not really just one color. No, 

Rachel: no, and there's such a I suppose confusion around undertones as well. Like when people are, that's a question that we will get a lot of times. So like, what white would you pair with the wall color?

Well, it depends obviously the undertone of your wall color before you present a side on everything else in the room. But yeah, there's a huge mystery about undertone, but it's so important. And in the color matching in particular, is that if you know, the warm undertone and then it's slightly more lilac or pink completely throws off everything else.

Yeah, it 

Kate: was funny. I had this. Brown paint. I think it was called TDA Brown. Oh yeah. It was a really deep brown, right. And I was just painting an attic space, and I just needed like whatever coverage. I was like, I'll use it up. And I thought if I put a little bit of that into. White. What color would you think you'd get?

Like a light brown. A light brown. A light brown. Exactly. What color did it come out? Pinky lilac, like really livid. Like purple. Oh my god. Really? Purplely lilac. And I was like, wow. It just showed like what undertones were in that brown, even though it was a really deep chocolate brown. [00:10:00] Interesting. 

Jen: So I wonder, is that a tip then for listeners?

If you are wondering if you're buying a paint sample and you're curious about what. Undertones are in it. I'd given advice before to hold it up to a primary color and it's kind of easy to see Is it leaning more yellow leaning more blue whatever but actually maybe you could just take a tiny bit of it and mix it With some white and that will give you a good sense of what the undertones are.

Yeah if you're testing it kind of a cheap Tin of white paint. Yeah, life hack. You heard it here first listeners Let us know if it works, we haven't actually tried this. Yeah 

Kate: So you guys are experts in kind of old houses as well And a lot of people have asked us about breathable paint, and I've been told I need to use breathable paint.

Like, what does that mean? And like, can I use any paint? Is there certain ones now that are water based or not? 

Alan: Yeah, so Lime plaster is, I suppose, temperamental. And it needs a little bit of TLC, and those homes need to breathe. So, a breathable paint Most paints have a [00:11:00] breathable technology in them. 

However conservation technology up there near Bluebell, they have what's called airborne clay paint. Okay. And when, when specified, we would use, we would use that. That's what we would lean towards. Yeah. Generally it's the conservation technologists would tell us that it's on the exterior walls of the, of a period home.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily the interior walls. 

Jen: So Breathable or needing to breathe in means air needs to get at us. Otherwise it just kind of moisture. Okay. Yeah Yeah, and then it kind of 

Rachel: causes a lot but they're and a great source of and knowledge conservation technology and we would also often Get advice from them.

Yeah consult them on certain particular projects Yeah, they're incredible. They're very good. Very 

Alan: good. Full of knowledge. Yeah, they 

Kate: have so many products. When I painted my last house, it was all new lime plaster and we were told you have to use breathable paint. And I saw some brands do like casein to stemper and all these different kind of breathable versions.

And then I looked into it a bit more and there seemed to be [00:12:00] like a, an air transfer, a breathability kind of classification on some paints. So I found that some of them kind of more premium ones, those kind of highly pigmented kind of paints that we're talking about had this classification that. Classed it enough as breathable.

Yeah, so it's definitely something to watch out for. Yeah, we were told just don't put up something That's like a jelly paint that has loads of binders in it that will act like a plastic layer. Yeah, yeah, okay So you're kind of safe enough if you check that breathable kind of classification. Yeah, for sure.

There seems to be 

Rachel: more coming on to the market as well I think maybe in the past it was more specialist but I think companies and paint brands are more in tune with with that at the moment. 

Kate: Okay, and Another one then so a lot of the breathable paints are kind of water based. A lot of paints are water based nowadays, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're kind of low VOC like you mentioned as well, your paints are. So talk to us about that. VOC is 

Jen: the stuff you don't want to be breathing in. Yeah, in your house. Yeah, so that's for air quality more than anything. Yeah, yeah, I 

Alan: think I think historically and it was something that actually put me off coming into the painting industry years ago was that [00:13:00] it was also, it was always considered like quite toxic, the materials that the painter was using and maybe the painter's cough or whatever you might have.

And so that kind of put me off initially coming into it, but then as the years have gone on, the water based has, has incredible quality nowadays, whereas previously, maybe, maybe it was literally just water based paint where there's lots of different properties in it now that. Make it far greater, we think, than the oil waste.

Rachel: So VOCs, they stand for volatile organic compounds. So you want to try and steer clear of them as much as possible. There is always an element of them because they are part of the binder in an ingredient. But, so ours are, depending on the different finishes, it's 0 VOC. Which means it's a certain level of less than 0 VOC.

5 grams per liter and then there's a low VOC, which is I think less than 30 grams. So there are certain classifications that brands have to follow for that. But it's it's it's so important [00:14:00] because I think maybe people are so Conscious about what they're putting into their body in terms of their food and their health but actually when you're surrounded if you're painting your house Like you need to be looking for odorless and the correct materials to be breathing in and that's another positive about it, though You don't have to evacuate your house, 

Jen: right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you used to have to be gone for days Yeah, it's malice And then it is that much better for longevity because I know oil based paints tend to discolor over time The oil just kind of goes yellow. Yeah Is that different then with water based paint? You don't have to worry about that?

Rachel: Yeah, you wouldn't have to worry about that in the water based paint, from our experience anyways. No, 

Alan: absolutely not. Like, there's, like, that's the unfortunate part about the oil based is that the oil would rise to the surface or whatever, and it would yellow your, your typical white woodwork. 

Rachel: We would rarely use oil based on projects.

Like, as in 99%, I would say, unless it's been specified. Yeah, no, I can't remember. I can't remember the last time we used it. Interesting. Yeah, it is 

Kate: interesting. It's more environmentally friendly [00:15:00] too, like, so. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. So would you recommend, so everyone thinks they can try their hand at painting, right?

We talked about this. My mother, if you're listening, always My mother too, she's always like, I'm a great painter. Yeah, just paint it yourself. Everyone thinks they can have a go at it. And it nearly broke me and my husband when we painted our last house, nearly caused a divorce. So would you guys ever recommend painting yourself?

And a few tips if someone decides to, 

Alan: I mean, I would recommend it. I mean, I love seeing people having a go, I guess. But never underestimated. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I would write down a, I would write down a plan, especially if it's husband and wife, . I would write down a plan. If you have a full, if you have a full time job and there's children involved, I mean, it's a hectic schedule as it is, so you may only have two or three hours, if even, in the evening, so that will So yeah.

Two, three, four week project all of a sudden. So I would, it's tough work and it's 

Jen: quite technical. Like I don't want anyone to underestimate, [00:16:00] you know, getting the edges right, making sure that you have enough coverage, using the right materials, making sure that you don't injure your shoulder, your neck.

You really have to be careful. 

Kate: Scaffolds for high spots and stuff, and that's people level, like stretching up on ladders. People do it, don't they Try to get up in corners and stuff. And if you don't have the right equipment, it is dangerous. 

Rachel: Yeah. And I suppose then even after you put in all that hard work, your paint could fail, which I suppose maybe al you might advise, what, what are the tips to not fail or painting you

Alan: No pressure. So yeah. Well, historically what we have seen in from DIYers would be. skipping the prep. And I was asked by a client recently, what's the, what's the time frame for finishing a project? And they said, well, you're almost done with the prep. And I said, well, actually it's almost 70, 30. So 70 percent of our, our, our any project or painting project should be the prep and that's like isolating the area.

Sanding, filling, [00:17:00] priming, like all that matters before a bucket of paint comes into the room. 

Jen: Do you think you can just cover it all over with paint and it just doesn't work like that at all? No. It needs to be a very well Blank canvas that is perfectly smooth. Yeah. And 

Alan: if, like there recently in Sandy Mount, we, we were preparing a front door at the interior of the front door.

And the guy, one of our guys literally just went with a scraper and it was like he was scraping butter out of a Oh 

Kate: wow. It was just all peeling off. We were just all peeling off. 

Alan: And the previous owner or DIYer, or painter they're 

Jen: not all perfect, 

Alan: painted over varnish. So directly over varnish with probably no sanding, no cleaning, all of that.

I can't explain enough how, how much that matters. So it's 

Kate: all in the prep. That's what we're hearing. All in the prep. And you mentioned there like painting over varnish. So that was a question from a lot of people. the right primers. Yeah. And the right prepping the surface in general. So what would you recommend if there was an old gloss paint or something or old varnish?

Alan: Yeah, so the right primers are essential. The steps, [00:18:00] the steps to say repainting a varnish door from my side would be you'd sand, you'd clean, you'd prime, you'd sand. You'd clean. 

Wow. 

Jen: Yeah. So you'd sand the first coat of primer and then prime it again. Okay.

Alan: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to hate sanding when I was, so, so when I started, I used to hate sanding. There was no machines around. It was all very much hand sanding and you'd be broke. Your heart would be broke by the end of the day. So it, so I served my time in appreciating sanding and a lot of people.

Because of it's like, it's so hard, so it's actually, people skip over it because it's like, Oh God, that is just horrendous. So that would be, that would be the steps for me. But there are machines now. There are machines, yeah. 

Jen: It's a bit easier. It's worth investing in that I suppose if you're doing, if you're painting over something.

100%. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 

Alan: We have Festool sanders and again, we get asked [00:19:00] questions by people. Guys in the industry or girls in the industry and they'd say, do you think it's worth the investment? And I can't express enough how much it's worth. Do you know, I think 

Kate: I have to blame you actually. The fact that I own a Festool, we own a Festool, my husband bought the Festool industrial extraction system and two orbital sanders.

So the square pack kind of one and one, two, five. Right. So that's a win. Katie you own every tool. I know, but I don't, I don't, I don't. My husband is addicted to tools and he saw this. And he saw you using it on your Instagram and he said, we have to get one of these Festools. Like he's always into it. And he was like, look at this, look at this.

So now we own a Festool. No, we are not professional painters. And even I say it was totally worth the investment because the amount of work I've been able to do in the house and not have to leave and bring stuff outside or whatever, and it's completely just free. Yeah, 

Rachel: you'll never get the same finish, like it's such an elevated finish with the Fez tool or any machine sander compared to hand sanding.

Jen: What is it? Spell it. Fez tool? F E S T O O L. F [00:20:00] E S T O O L, okay. So like Well, because the dust is a nightmare, like, anyone trying to clean up after somebody has been in and the house has been renovated, like, it is nearly impossible to get all the dust off. It's really important to not get it out in the first place.

Kate: Tiny, tiny particle. I don't know what the rating is exactly, but essentially it'll be dust free. Yeah. Even if you're kind of sanding. Now, I haven't sanded plaster with it. He's trying to convince me to buy the drywall sander. And I'm like, do we really need to buy the drywall sander? Apparently we do. So watch this space.

I might have the drywall sander just next year. So you're asking is it worth it? Yes, it's worth it. Yeah. Absolutely. Don't listen to them. 

Alan: Yeah. For us, because our approach is to provide the best possible finish in every home. Yeah. You can't do that. No. With dust everywhere. The guys breathing in dust. Yeah, exactly.

Like the finish, as Rachel said, It just is not comparable in any way, shape or form. So 

Kate: essentially it's sand, fill, repeat. Sand, fill, repeat. Yes, absolutely. And then maybe paint. Maybe, yeah, [00:21:00] yeah. Another thing I have to blame for, the festival thing actually. A house around the corner you were painting, because your van's were outside there for a few weeks.

Yes. , and my husband said, Wow, they have sanded and filled that door like three times. He saw you doing the whole door, or your guys doing the whole door. And like the hall door was filled in sand and then it was sanded back and he was like, Oh, we're ready for painting now. And the past the next day, we'd be like, they're sanding it again.

He's like, they're sanding it again. He could not get over it. And then he was like, we have to do our door like that. So then my hall door came off. Our hall door. And he was like, we're going to refinish our hall door Kate. And I'm like, cool, thanks. I'm like, I'm blaming you. At least you're providing a bit of 

Jen: inspiration.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So sand at least twice with a Fez tool is the key to it. 

Kate: Yeah, but I don't think you'll ever regret investing in good tools if you're doing any kind of level of DIY yourself. Yeah, and just quick, 

Alan: just quickly on, on, on the DIY, like patience, as, as Kate said there, the, the sanding, the filling, the sanding, the filling, the priming, Oh, it's ready for, no, Patience, you're gonna live with the finish for a long time.

Yeah, like, [00:22:00] like It's probably going to take, whatever the project size is, just say two weeks. How long are you going to live with it, with the finished end? So make sure, make sure you've given it your best. Patience, I would say. And 

Jen: you said before, Alan, 70 percent prep and then 30 percent actually painting the thing.

Which I think is really good. So that's, okay, so that's sanding and prepping. What about filling? Like if you're, what if, even to take a step back, what if you were to remove something? from the wall, be it the varnish for example. So that's kind of sanded down. What if it's wallpaper, you know, what if there's a chunk taken out of the wall or you need to smooth the surface?

What are your tips there for? 

Alan: So we have we have another Fez tool. 

Jen: We are not sponsored by Fez tool. I want you to know that. Although please get in touch. Yeah, please get in touch. We should be, yeah. 

Alan: And, and what we, what we've called it is the bazooka in the, in the Firelinko team, but actually it's called a Planix or Planix.

P L A N I X. And basically it's a extendable and a large maybe [00:23:00] football size head on it and that runs over the walls or ceilings for us so it covers a much greater space and it's also easier on the guys when they're, when they're holding it. So it's actually suction on it so great that you can let it go.

Kate: Okay. It holds itself to the wall. It holds itself to the wall. So the guys aren't. 

Alan: Yeah. So it's, it's insane. It's insane. The. The tools that this Festool have, they really have thought about the tradesman 

Kate: DIYer. Yeah, yeah. Can you rent them? Can you rent those tools? I don't know about Festool now. I've seen other brands, but I've never seen Festool.

Because I suppose they're just doing it once, you know. If they can rent them from you, I'm sure. Do you think my husband would let anyone use that? Even when I use it, he's watching me over my shoulder being like, you're knocking, you're knocking the head now off that. Now what do you do? Okay, so that gets 

Jen: it nice and smooth.

Rachel: We would do a lot of, I think you were asking about removing wallpaper. So, obviously you're not really too sure what your walls are going to look like once you remove the wallpaper. And that's always a risk until [00:24:00] you start. You really have no idea. But we, on our team, would always do skin coats as well.

Which I know is slightly more Elevated. Elevated and more complex for the DIYer, but again, completely worth it for the finish. 

Alan: Sometimes you can be quite lucky when you uncover, when you remove the wallpaper and actually the walls are quite sound underneath. Generally in period homes. That's very lucky.

Yeah. In my experience, doesn't happen period homes. It's not the case. Yeah. And 

Kate: do you know what I found as well? A lot of the wallpapers that were put up were some sort of metallicy plasticy wallpaper at some point in time. Okay. Which weren't breathable. Oh. So therefore the lime plaster has crumbled underneath from damp.

Well, interesting. 'cause the, the actual like. Paper is you know that horrible stripy metallic or paint or whatever from whenever they put it 60s or 70s or whatever And I found those are really hard to strip as well because the steamer doesn't even penetrate the plasticky surface So I was kind of scraping bit by bit by bit, but in my experience wallpaper rarely covers perfect walls No, [00:25:00] especially if it's the Fucking wood chip wallpaper stuff that's always crap walls underneath like crumbling ceilings, shit walls.

So yeah, we said this in one of our first episodes, be careful when you buy an old home and you go in and you're like, I'm going to rip off all the wallpaper. And I'm like, be careful, it might literally be holding your walls together. And 

Alan: that actually is very true. Some clients would say to me I'm thinking of removing the wallpaper and it may be just lining paper.

And that has been painted over repeatedly. And I would say, actually don't, a safer option is to, because God knows what is beneath there. And what we would generally do is put reinforcement tape, mesh tape over the joints of the wallpaper and skim that. Amazing. That's interesting. Then you don't see that it is actually wallpaper and it's much more uniform.

Kate: So if someone wasn't a DIY then, so it's really hard to know, is a painter a good painter? So is your advice if a painter comes [00:26:00] in and you're maybe getting some prices that they talk about that, the prep, the prep steps. 

Alan: I actually think Rachel's the research queen here. So when we're going on holidays, Rachel is the research queen.

I'm very 

Rachel: detail orientated. Even my own, like you need to research who you're. Getting to work on your house. So whether that's referrals from your friends, whether you follow them on Instagram and I think that's always something that we've been really conscious of is to be very transparent about what we're doing in people's homes.

So people are maybe slightly more educated in, Oh God, they do need to be sanding and they do need to be filling. And probably the, the basic as well is to, I know when Alan goes into his consultations, he would describe exactly what the plans to do the quote obviously would need to be detailed in what you're going to be paying for.

And then from a more basic level, like, are they insured, are they VAT registered? That's all the basics to make sure that it is a professional painting company. And that's something we'd be quite passionate about is, there is a lot of companies out there that [00:27:00] maybe aren't as professional as they could be.

And that's unfortunate then because it does give a slight bad name to the industry. And people maybe aren't so trusting. But I think by, by putting your research into who you're going to go with talking to them. Do you like them? Do you know? Yeah. Yeah.

That was my 

Jen: step number one is for everyone that you're working with in this whole process, like it's a working relationship, so communication is key. It has to be there. Yeah. Yeah. And I think if you get a good, you know, if somebody is responsive and they're communicative and they're open about what they're planning to do, that's such a good sign that they're going to do a good job.

Yeah. Exactly. 

Rachel: And, and I think. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Rachel: It's obviously, it's a very high stress environment when you are doing renovations and it's a lot of money, people's savings. It's a huge job. So unless you have that relationship there and if there isn't open communication, it's going to make the whole process much harder.

And yeah, you 

Jen: think you're saving money in the short run, but really you're not. Yeah. 

Alan: So, I've heard some horror stories with clients whereby it'd be builders, carpenters, painters. They've been burnt by them either not returning or not answering to [00:28:00] snags or maybe a botched job. So, research is key.

A presence on social media is huge. We think that's one of the main reasons why we launched our Instagram page. It's hard, it's hard to put a figure on it, but 

 80 percent of our work comes through Instagram and they've already been sold on us when we arrive to do the project because they can see and they trust our process.

Jen: There's a bit of transparency, I suppose, in somebody who's putting themselves out there publicly. I mean if you're, if there's loads of comments underneath all the posts saying like come back and finish my house or you didn't do this, it's like, yeah, that's a bad sign. Yeah, 

Kate: yeah, yeah, you're putting yourself out there for sure.

Okay, so the next area that we got loads of questions about and this is the place that I messed up my first time was picking the right colours, right? So we had a lot of questions about, you know, good off white. Both for the walls and for trim. And then like is pure brilliant white ever the right answer?

Yeah. So like just general like white, [00:29:00] especially for our Irish kind of light. Yeah, quite grey. And what direction is your room facing in? When are you usually in that room? What type 

Rachel: of lighting do you have in that room? How do you pick based on that? And I think, yeah, you touched on it as well in the, in the colours episode, but the amount of questions that you would get, what, what colour should I put in this room?

But there's so many different variables, like, The aspect of the room when you use the room, artificial light, natural light, what you're currently working with in terms of your own furniture, you know and I think the most important thing, like it goes back to the undertones. If you're trying to pair colors, you need to look at the undertones and there's so many different elements that all need to come together to make that room look right, which is, which is really hard.

Like it is really hard. So you understand why people. Maybe don't get it right the first time and you're, and you're in the industry, you know, so off whites I would always probably steer clear of like a stark, stark white. They can tend to look quite blue, can't they? Well, I think 

Jen: grey as well, because we've a lot of grey in [00:30:00] our sky.

A lot of grey coming through the window. And if you just, you know, if you've white, white, white, with no undertones, it's typically just going to reflect what's there. It's quite icy cold. Yeah, icy cold. Yeah, and 

Kate: we were talking about this in our lighting episode even. Like, cold white spots. I don't even know why people use them.

Maybe it's for different climates or different lights or different countries. Are they doing surgery in their country? You always want a bit of warmth, I think, maybe in this country. And also, I think, like, 

Rachel: when you're, say, if you have a pink on your wall And you put a white with that, it's just going to clash, whereas if you were to go for a white with a pink undertone to it, it will look white against the pink, but it won't be harsh.

It's softer, yeah. Softer, yeah, and I think that's really coming through a lot more, kind of like the tone on tone colours. I love 

Jen: that. I almost love like a kind of, we spoke about this in the colour episode, but almost, That leaning into that monochrome color where you have lots of different shades at the same time.

Yeah, 

Kate: like layers and layers of it, like even in your furnishings. 

Rachel: Yeah, it's a lot more luxurious as well in the home. Like there's just so many different layers [00:31:00] and depth in the going to say depth, yeah. Much more depth 

Jen: than the story does. I think it looks great as well, especially in small rooms because it does bring in that depth.

It's a great trick of the eye. I think it's lovely. I 

Kate: actually have a blue, navy blue kind of upholstered bed in my guest room. And I always had white bed linen on it, right? Always. And I had this Deep kind of foresty greeny blue kind of bed linen set and I just put it on one day and I was like, oh my god It looks ten times better.

The room looked ten times better. It's just like all the layers of kind of dark deep colors Like the room immediately looked cozier and whatever. So yeah, I love that kind of layers of different shades and tones Yeah, definitely. Okay, so that's kind of whites off white. So look for the undertones. What's your Favorite kind of off white your own brand and maybe 

Rachel: From our own brand, since we've launched Trig, has just been the most popular warm, neutral, off white.

And that, yeah, so it's an off white with sort of taupe undertones to it. It seems to work well in, you know, a [00:32:00] lot of different living rooms, hallways, well on woodwork, in all different finishes, the eggshell and the mat. Yeah, so that seems to be really really popular. Other brands I think ColourTrend, is it Milk Teeth or?

I actually had a question 

Kate: from someone about Milk Teeth and what we thought of it. That was very specific. 

Rachel: It's, I suppose if you're looking for a white. What's the undertone 

Jen: to that now, to Milk Teeth? 

Rachel: Slightly warm undertone to it. Oh lovely, okay. Yeah, it is still quite bright white though. Okay. It wouldn't be, but it wouldn't be a brilliant white.

Yeah. I've 

Jen: been, do you know what I saw recently is it was in a hotel. You actually had this in your kitchen as well, with a kind of a green undertone. Which I love, because I think it's so, it almost achieves what Magnolia set out to achieve.

You thought my kitchen looked like it was Magnolia? No! I'm joking. People had Magnolia because they wanted a bit of warmth and a bit of sunshine. And you know, okay, it's gone now and should never come back. Yeah. But I actually feel like paint with a green undertone really achieves that in a much more sophisticated way.

I [00:33:00] find it very calm actually. 

Rachel: We actually have a lovely color called Sandy Cove. And that has a green undertone too, but it's still kind of a creamy. But it's because of the green undertone, it's really fresh. Rather than like a heavy warm. Exactly, it's fresh. We spoke about 

Kate: this, but yellow undertone can sometimes look a bit dirty.

Yeah, like you've been smoking in that room for years or something. Yeah, but the green is really crisp and fresh I think. Yeah, that's a really good tip for kind of the green undertone. Yeah. 

Jen: I'm gonna come back to colouries in a second. But You just mentioned there eggshell, matte. Can you just give a breakdown of finishes and where the right finishes go before we get back to colors?

Because we didn't touch on this I don't think. No, no. It's really important. 

Rachel: Yeah. Well, Alan, do you want to answer that one? Okay, yeah, so 

Alan: During my training into the industry Historically, it's gloss, eggshell, satin on woodwork. So so eggshell will be the lowest sheen of the tree. Okay, and satin then it would be a Mid sheen it would have it would have a quite a [00:34:00] sheen to it. Okay. My preference is eggshell what's 

Kate: that like sheen percent? Like the 10 20% or what? Think it's seven. Oh oh, okay. Okay. I think it's 7% and then Saturn is up higher again than like 10, 15%.

Okay. 

Alan: Yeah. And then gloss. Gloss. Yeah. Like getting back to the Magnolia. Magnolia, it's, it was magnolia and white gloss. Brilliant. White gloss for years. Yeah. To us, I don't think there's ever. Well, probably Front Door. Front Door. Front Door. Yeah. I've actually 

Kate: seen a few, like, another thing I'm addicted to watching is Front Door Restoration.

And there's some guy, I can't remember his name now, I'll find him on Instagram, but he does restoration of these wrecked front doors and then paints them in gloss. And it's like a mirror. It's amazing. It's just like, yeah. I also, 

Jen: I got advice and I didn't do it because I didn't have to. The guts for it.

Well, I got advice to paint my ceilings in a small place with a high glass. Have you ever seen that? No. Because it was to bounce more light around, make it more reflective make it feel a little bit bigger. I didn't end up doing it, and I haven't really seen it, but I just thought it was an interesting suggestion.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Definitely a statement, I suppose. Yeah. 

Alan: Yeah. That's, that's, that's cool. Yeah. Like in a, [00:35:00] in a small space, we would recommend, like a wet room, say, we would recommend an eggshell for, for a sheen. Okay. Like for moisture to be able to. Not penetrate the surface. And to sit, to sit on the surface.

If you had a mat in a, in a bathroom. Or a WC. Very much, The walls would, Sorry, the moisture would penetrate the walls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also 

Kate: less durable as well. For sure, yeah. Someone actually asked that about a kitchen paint finish. So, another mistake I made in my first house. I did a completely matte kitchen.

I have a completely matte kitchen. Really, really low sheen. Like, I don't know what the sheen was in it, but it was so impossible to keep clean. Yeah, it does. I find 

Jen: either end of the spectrum, you're going to show up fingerprints. If you have high gloss or if you have full matte. Yeah. Especially if you have a handless kitchen, you will show up fingerprints.

Yeah. I personally think for a 

Kate: kitchen, 10 percent is the sweet spot. Yeah, like it's wipeable. Yeah, like it's so much easier to maintain. Just for your sanity 

Rachel: [00:36:00] alone. Yeah, totally. Totally matte in the kitchen. Just steer clear. Yeah, we would all always use an eggshell really. That would be our For a kitchen.

For our kitchen cabinets. Yeah. So 

Jen: what about walls then? What would you usually do for a wall? Matte. Matte on a wall, yeah. 

Alan: No, no, we have two finishes and most, most paint brands would have a few finishes of matte. Ours is silk matte and pure matte. So silk has maybe a 3 or 4 percent sheen and that is our most cleanable, wipeable.

Higher traffic. So if you have kids or something and there's, yeah, yeah. Technically it doesn't. Probably have a math look to it, but it's our lowest sheen in the math, in the math division. Okay, so for small 

Kate: kids it might be worth going for the couple of percent sheen to make it more watchable. Yeah, and the whole way, you know, like those sort 

Alan: of areas, the hydrophic areas.

But it's important to note that like once the prep is done right, you can put math. If your sanity allows it, anywhere, like you can put it on the doors and sometimes it looks really cool maybe in a, in a reception room or a living, living space where there's not much traffic and the kids aren't going with their, with their [00:37:00] greasy hands and stuff like that.

It can look really luxurious and, and, yeah, like velvety. Velvety, gorgeous. Yeah. I did dead flat on all my woodwork in my last house. Yeah. 

Kate: So my, like, data rail. Whatever, the picture rail on the skirting. But it catches dust, like, It's so, so rough. It really has to be. And an old home, no matter what you do to these old houses, they're dusty.

They just are. It comes through the floorboards, it comes through everywhere. So I just think, dead flat, it's just hard to maintain. It's a new build. I know 

Rachel: there's a fine balance as well between aesthetics and practicality as well. So I think you probably just need to look at what works for you and your, and your home and your family.

Yeah. And, and that's your decision maker really. Oh well, unless you want to keep planning it. Unless you want to keep planning it all the time. I think like a 

Jen: contrast as well, like if you're doing say Dead Flat on Walls or on Daedalus. I'd love, it depends on the colours you're going for, but I do love a gloss against that.

Maybe it's on your skirting or on the door or something, I think it kind of looks nice. Yeah, it does add [00:38:00] texture. 

Kate: And what about, you're talking about contrast in the woodwork colour drenching versus contrast trim versus like, so some people have colour match to the wall, some people have it white trim, like they like that crisp white trim, and then some people go darker on the trim than the walls.

What do you think about that, what's the most popular nowadays? 

Rachel: Color drenching is really popular but then I think probably less popular would be the darker color on the trim. I suppose it's more of a bold move and a bold statement. I've seen a lot of UK houses, a lot of UK period houses. Like black staircases and all that.

I think there's a lot in UK homes. We did one recently and that looked amazing. The black staircase and then they had like a black runner going up on the walls floor wise. It was really clean and really crisp. But in terms of like, say, your architraves or your doors, it's still a neutral. It's still a different tone.

Mostly. That's what 

Kate: we're seeing anyways. And one question that came up was an off white for your trim, rather than just the pure brilliant white but it's [00:39:00] still that clean, crisp white. Is there a white that you kind of recommend for that? With something like milk teeth, like we've discussed before, be suitable for wood or is that too?

Yeah. Yeah. 

Alan: Before we launched our own paint, milk teeth was the most requested. Really? Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. I 

Kate: hear Arctic blonde. I love Arctic Blonde, it's my favourite. 

Jen: It's really good. It's brighter, you know, it's not, it doesn't have as much warmth to it, but I think it looks really nice. 

Alan: That to me is quite close to, I suppose, Brilliant White.

I thought it was very cold when I tried it. Yeah, and Arctic Blonde would probably describe it quite well. Yeah, and it is a cool colour, I do like it. Milk Teeth's an interesting name, and yeah, we've seen that pop up quite a bit. Actually, I would say the majority of If they were choosing color trend declined, it would have been milk teeth.

And what we're seeing now is Bán, our whitest white is bán. That, that has a warm to it. Yeah, that's a yellow. An intrigue to it. 

Kate: Lovely. So another one that came up was when you're kind of, when you're painting, some of the technical bits, like caulking.

Do I [00:40:00] paint caulk? Do I not paint caulk? 

Alan: Yeah. So caulk is paintable. It's very much paintable. Silicone is not. So painters, it's called painter's caulk in that. It is a paintable. So whatever finish you're looking to do, you can paint it. . 

Kate: So paint it, it's say a junction between like the skirting and the wall.

Do you paint the cork the same colour as the skirting or the wall? Does it matter? 

Alan: Yeah, so it, it, that does depend. If you're taping, if you're taping. Before caulk, if you tape a cabinet edge all the way down and then you caulk it, you're only painting the wall 

Jen: side because 

Alan: your cabinet is covered. And that can vary on skirting boards, it can vary depending where you want to strike your line.

Gotcha. So 

Kate: if there's a big wide gap to the wall, you might paint it the same color as the skirting to marry it in with the skirting, but if it's up the wall a little bit more, you paint it to match the wall. Yes. Essentially. Okay. So that's caulking. Another question we got in terms of like technical painting know how, [00:41:00] masking.

People can seem to find a good masking tape. Like, you guys as painters probably wouldn't use masks for cut ins and stuff like that. You'd probably do cut ins and stuff freehand, would you? 

Alan: We, we, we can, but like, and 

Jen: That's a skill now. That's really a skill. Very, very steady hand for that, I don't know.

Alan: And, and our painters can, but I don't think they're You cannot rival a machine edged, razor sharp, Tape. Okay. You just cannot. Okay. So for us, we use tape everywhere and we get stick from the 

Jen: What tape do you use? Gym vent. We, 

Alan: we use, we use a low tech Fleetwood tape. 

Kate: Okay. Low Ack Fleet. And does that pull the paint off afterwards?

When do you use it? When do you put it on? Do you take it off in the paint? Sweat Leave it dry? What do you do? 

Alan: Yeah. It's a, it's a tricky, it's a tricky one. This, so what you would do is you'd paint your skirt. If you're talking about skirtings, you'd paint your skirtings. 

Kate: Mm-Hmm . 

Alan: Then you apply your tape.

over your skirtings, strike a nice line. 

Jen: Once they're dry. Once they're dry, yeah, exactly. Very dry. And once they're skirt. [00:42:00] Yeah. 

Alan: So maybe the next day you'd you'd tape your skirtings. Then what we would do is we would run the colour of the skirting over the tape to create that sealant, so anything that will bleed through will be the skirting colour.

Kate: Okay. 

Alan: Then that dries, it's a, it's a, there's lots of steps to do. And then, and then you paint your wall, you cut in your wall. Yeah. Then you, you cut in your wall, roll your wall two coats, remove the tape. 

Jen: When it's still wet or when it's still dry? 

Alan: It, it can be dry, but it, it can stay there for a day. The key is low tack though. It's a low tack, absolutely. And a good, a very good tip is to make sure you run the skirting colour or whatever it might be. On the tape, so it creates that sealant and it doesn't bleed through. Okay. I have to quite a good one. Okay.

Jen: So it ba that basically when you're saying sealant, that seals the tape so that if you get a splat on the tape Yeah. It's not gonna bleed through into the, the color underneath it of the Exactly. Because some 

Alan: if sometimes there's air pockets or whatever Yeah. When make sure you give [00:43:00] it a good run through with your thumb.

Mm. But there are, if you don't do that, basically you're cutting in with the wall color. All of a sudden you've got jaggedy edges. 

Kate: We have a bedroom in our house that has kind of a curved ceiling, right, where the eaves kind of cut off the room, and we had to make a line because there's no line between the ceiling and the wall and they were different colours.

So, we got this tip online I don't know if that's the right way to do it. But we masked the wall and then we smeared a tiny bit of caulk along that top edge of mask. Okay. And then we paint it. So you do have a little bit of color. And then we pull the mask at 90 degrees. So you kind of did what you were doing down at the skirting level, but on the wall.

Yeah, yeah. Because someone asked us, like, how do you do that if you want to color, you know, half and half on a wall or vertical stripes or something like that. that smear creates your little barrier to bleed through. Yeah, It's very clever, 

Jen: yeah. Okay. So, because I suppose, is that then, because another thing you could have done, I suppose, is stick up a little bit of data or like a thin little data rail, but is that, that's almost like, an invisible version of that nearly.

You do [00:44:00] have a little bit of a line there and there's a bit of, there is an actual divide but it's not. Another thing I suppose is 

Rachel: that a lot of the time in those smaller rooms we would actually paint the ceiling the same colour as the wall. I think we should have to be honest. When I went back I was like why did we paint the ceiling light blue?

As that one wall 

Jen: or as all the walls? Just the whole thing. So just paint the whole room the same colour. 

Rachel: Because you really, obviously how light hits in every single room, it will look like a different colour anyway. Yeah. 100%. you the fine details. Yeah, the ceiling always has a bit more of a shadow on it 

Kate: anyway.

It's a bit darker. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we've kind of covered most of the questions, but one question I suppose to finish would be Your favorite paint color ever ever ever. Of any brand. Any brand. Maybe you can pick your own brand as well.

Yeah, of course, of course. But one of each. 

Rachel: So Edward Bulmer is a English paint company and they've really good ethos as well really natural pigments in all their paints and they do this incredible [00:45:00] bright zesty green and it's called Invisible Green and if you go onto their Instagram they have Such amazing color combinations.

I might necessarily put it on my kitchen cabinets or in my hallway but just for like color inspiration incredible account. But yeah, invisible green, zesty green, they pair with like oranges, they pair with like blues. Oh wow, look at it. I'm just ghouling here. Oh my goodness, I love it. You 

Kate: can imagine that in an old house.

Yeah, exactly and a lot of, I think 

Rachel: that's sort of their direction is in all those sort of old, old homes in estates in England. That's, it would be cool for yeah, exactly. It's like soccer between. It's fun, isn't it? Yeah, it's very playful. It's really fun. 

Jen: Yeah. Surprisingly, it goes with a lot of other colours as well, like the pairings there are really working.

It's amazing with the pink. It's amazing with the pink, yeah. Oh, I love that with the red. It's a great 

Rachel: inspirational account as well. Just for maybe, you know, stepping out of the box a little bit and choosing colour combinations you wouldn't necessarily pick. And then for one of our colours Fremantle.

So it's this like deep, aubergine, plummy [00:46:00] colour. Which looks incredible when it's colour drenched. Or pair, it's probably what you were aiming 

Jen: for in your first house. , 

Kate: No one like, yeah, I think London Clay was kind of somewhat, 

Rachel: yeah, somewhat like that. Ogin, and I think all those colors are really coming through in, in 2024.

There's much more richer colors, the saturated colors, and I think people are taking more risks as well, which is great in terms of their colors. So either color drenched in a room or even like, say we've seen it like in the interior of like a, a cabinet or, you know, like a coffee cabinet. So there's different ways you can bring in those sort of more out there colors without taking too much of

Yeah. Because it's still kind of Yeah. Social in a way too. Love that. Jen, what's your favorite color? 

Jen: I love India. Yellow from Farrow and Ball. Oh, I love it. Yellow is my favorite color anyway, and I just, I really love, it's dissimilar to 

Kate: your light over our head, actually. Light over our head, 

Jen: quite similar to the couch, my Finline couch in Turmeric is a similar colour.

I actually do have it on the inside of my kitchen cabinet as well just for a nice little pop on my front door. [00:47:00] I just, I love yellow, I find it so cheerful and lovely but a bright yellow is a bit too much for me. This is, if you look at the sample it looks really dark, too dark, but actually when you have it on a big surface it's lovely and bright and cheerful, I just love it.

Yeah, what's yours? 

Kate: Of the ones I've used I would say I loved my old dining room, London clay color drench everywhere. It's just for, especially for a room that got no natural light Exactly. Embraces, it's just go for the darkness. Love. Like we, I love that we had black marble fireplace, everything. Yeah. I nearly would've gone to the coing in the ceilings, but we didn't get that far.

We were outta the house fast enough. But if I was today, like an everyday kind of like all over my house paint color, I actually love schoolhouse white. Mm. I think it's a lovely warm, it's soft. Kind of off white, but has a bit of depth. Yeah, so I think they're my two favorites Yeah, 

Jen: yeah 

okay, I think that, I mean we managed to cover a lot there, so I think that's hopefully answered everybody's questions and thanks again for sending them in. Rachel and Alan, I mean, we covered a lot of colours there, but there's a billion more approximately, billions and billions more.[00:48:00] 

What do you advise people to do if they, still have questions and they're not sure about what colour to choose? 

Rachel: Well get in touch with us, I suppose. Instagram. Um, And then we all are actually also are going to be at the ideal home show in April towards the end of April. I think it's the last weekend.

So we're going to be offering free color consultations there too. And it's also going to be the first time. That we're going to be publicly displaying our brand. So really exciting time for us. Really? Okay, amazing. So Ideal 

Jen: Home Show on the RDS at the end of April. Go and check out Farrelly Co. And thank you so much.

Do a free colour consult. Get your house sorted. And so much for coming and answering so many questions. We really appreciate it. so 

Kate: much. Thanks for 

Jen: listening guys. See 

you soon. See you in the next episode. 

Jen: If you found that episode useful, please do us a huge favor by giving us a like, and a few stars and especially click that subscribe button. Thank you.