Episode 30 - Pump up the Heat

Kate and Jenny are turning up the heat - that's right, it's all about heating systems. It's not a topic that we're experts on, but we will take you through how we made the decisions in our previous homes around which type of boiler to choose, radiators, underfloor heating, and heat pumps. We will tell you all about the mistakes we made and the things that we would do again.

Items mentioned:

• Combi-boilers
• Underfloor heating (gas)
• Devimats (electric underfloor heating - for small areas)
• Skirting-board heating - ThermaSkirt
• Heat pumps (for heating and cooling)
• Electric radiators
• Zoning - to control heating in different areas of your home
• Smart thermostats

Transcript

Podcast Intro

Jen: Welcome to Rip It Up, the renovations podcast. I'm Jenny. I'm Kate. And between us, we've renovated a lot of houses and it hasn't scared us off. In fact, we loved it so much that we can't stop talking about it. So in this podcast, we will give you all the tools and info that you need to tackle your own renovation like a pro.

Episode Intro

Today we are talking all about heating systems. It's not a topic that we're experts on, but we're gonna take you through how we made the decisions in our previous homes around which boiler to choose radiators, underfloor, heating, heat pumps, and we'll tell you all about the mistakes we made and the things that we would do again. 

Episode body

Jen: Okay, welcome back to the podcast. Hi Kate. 

Kate: Hi Jen! 

Jen: Um, episode 30, is that, is that auspicious? 

Kate: Yeah, well it's a little bit of a 

milestone anyway, isn't it?

Jen: Mm hmm. Yeah. And actually, it's a good one because I, you and I spoke about before we 

started recording. [00:01:00] We're going to keep this one to 30 minutes or less because it's a big complex topic.

We're not experts. We're not going to dive into the technical details of this topic, but we're going to talk through what's out there, how to make the right decision, 

uh, or how, you know, what factors go into making the decision.

Kate: Yeah, I might talk about mistakes I made last 

time as well, versus what I'm doing this time and why. 

Jen: It's a hard one to get perfect, so maybe go easy on 

yourself if 

Kate: Yeah, 

Jen: of a decision yourself, listener. Anyway, if you haven't read the title 

of this podcast and you don't know what the hell we're talking about, we're talking about choosing your heating 

system for your home. How do you pick the right one?

How do you know? It's just, I don't know, there's just, I found 

It a bit of a minefield. I kind of tuned out to be honest when I was picking my own one, eventually.

Kate: It is, Yeah. and if you're not doing like a huge, huge renovation, it can be a very expensive retrofit. So like, trying to get that right and balancing the amount of work, the amount of cost you're putting into the new 

system versus the time you're going to be in the home and the payback and all that,

like, it's, it is mindful, like, it's, it's, it's a complicated topic.

Jen: [00:02:00] Yeah. So if you are doing a huge 

renovation. And you have a lot 

of space. The world is kind of your oyster, I suppose, in 

choosing what type of heating system to go for. And sorry, when we're talking about heating systems,

we're kind of

talking about everything from your boiler all the way through to, like, do you choose a radiator versus whatever.

Else there might be available out there. So it's a lot, um, One thing that will dictate it a certain amount is what do you have running into your home. So I had gas coming into my home, which is great. Um, not everybody might have that. You might be looking at electricity in which case you have different options available to you.

Um, and then of course there's a whole world of renewables out there as well. 

Kate: Yeah. What do you have in your current house? 

Mm. 

Jen: my thought process, right,

and my decision 

process for mine. And this might be helpful for anyone else with a really small 

house 

and space constraints. Um, I have gas, I have a gas line coming into my home. I looked at all the renewable stuff, the air to water. [00:03:00] Um, And I actually really, I wanted to do that,

but It didn't work for me because the outdoor space required by,

um, an air to water pump,

it's still, it's about the size of a large suitcase.

And I know that doesn't sound very big, but I just didn't have it. I don't have

that in my house. So it just wasn't an

option. Um, at the time, the second thing that I wanted to go for then was a combi boiler. Again, because of space saving measures, I just. Figured that that would take up the least amount of space and it would potentially be the most efficient to go from there.

And then I had a really good plumber and he advised against it. I think there are really good ones out there. But he tested the water pressure coming into my house and because I have two bathrooms and because I love a bath. God forgive me, I just do. I really love a bath. I know they're not the most efficient.

Um, he ultimately said it would be better if we could try to fit in a full size pump with a water tank. Um, and [00:04:00] so he and my contractor figured out how to do that. They,

they managed to fit it in under the eaves. Um, just. In the upstairs of my house, beside where the dormer extension is. So I did sacrifice a little bit of space, but it's a hot press really now, so it's not too much of a sacrifice.

You know, there would have been a pump or a combi boiler in there anyway. 

Um, and the water tank takes up space, but it's space that, you know, it wasn't too hard pressed to sacrifice. Um, so I have a full size water tank, very well insulated, and then I have, um, a gas boiler and a pump. And that gives me great 

Water pressure, and I'm really 

happy that my bills are buttons,

Kate: Really?

Jen: really low.

Yeah, yeah. 

Kate: And in terms of the heating then, do you have Underfloor downstairs. 

Jen: Underfloor 

downstairs. So, underfloor we've spoken about it. Have we 

spoken about this before?

Kate: a little bit. We touched on a little bit, yeah. 

Jen: That was a really easy decision for me because the floor was coming up 

anyway, and if you're listening and you're thinking about going for underfloor heating, [00:05:00] the expense really is in ripping up the floor. So what happens is they, the floor comes 

up, they just lay a winding web 

Kate: Tube. 

Jen: tubing.

It's like, it looks so, it sounds so sophisticated 

underfloor heating and it looks so simple when they put it down. Then they pour a layer of screed over it, um, and they level out the floor and then your, your normal, whatever, substrate and everything goes on top of that. So, um, uh, screed goes on top of it.

So it's, if you're taking up the floor anyway of your house, then putting down underfloor heating is such a no brainer. Like it's really, Um, not more expensive. But if you have to think about ripping up your floor, then that's an additional cost to 

consider.

Kate: Yeah. I'll tell you where we were with our last house and

I'll tell you Where we've gotten to this time. So, last house, I mean, both the houses I'm going to talk about are old houses, right? So, old houses typically don't work amazingly well with heat pumps because The heat pump or air to water systems tend to run at a slightly lower [00:06:00] temperature than a standard, say, gas boiler temperature.

So, the radiators, the aluminium radiators and underfloor systems are all kind of that bit cooler. And in old houses like mine, like you'll typically have cold spots, you'll have drafty spots. You might have non, kind of insulated walls or single glazed sash windows in some parts and stuff like that. So, it makes it hard to boost the heating enough to heat those cold spots.

So, it kind of decided for us. Both times that it made sense to do just a standard kind of a fish and condenser gas boiler and because it was kind of like a Three bedroom or this time a four bedroom home like that's gonna be a family home We need it like it could never really be a combi

boiler because we're gonna have a couple of

showers going at a time You know at some

stage In the very near future.

So like combi boiler was always out So it's gonna be a standard condenser boiler big water tank Last time we did it all in the attic. We thought we're being so smart. We bought our water tank up there we put the boiler up 

there and put the pump [00:07:00] up there submersed 

in the hot water tank and Yeah, it was a 

disaster.

It was a 

Jen: What? No. Super smart. No? Where else would you put It 

Kate: So if you've any air which you typically will and kind of you know piped central heating systems Air will get in, you know, at the joints over time. It was kind of an old system anyway and while we replumb most, um, any, any bits of air that might get into that system will all travel up, up,

up, up, up and up into the attic.

And we just kept losing pressure in our boiler, um, and

it kept cutting out. So, like, we had problems from the get go with

having our boiler and all that

Now, I'm sure there's

ways and means around this and maybe, you know, There's an easy way to overcome all this when you're installing it in the first place.

It just didn't

work for us So this time we had a kind of a dedicated plant room or kind of 

side shed or garage So that's our dedicated plant 

room this time and we are doing underfloor downstairs We 

didn't last time

because we didn't have concrete

last 

Jen: I'm so excited for you to have underfloor heating. Like, it's [00:08:00] my favourite thing ever. It's so amazing.

Anyone considering it, like, yes, it's worth it. Please get it. It's 

just so nice.

Kate: Because both houses had suspended floors, this house, we had a lot of rot in this house. Like a lot of woodworm on the floorboards, a lot of rot in the joists,

our bay window in our bedroom that we're currently restoring is, is quite badly rotten and stuff as well. So because it's a detached house, we had a lot of moisture kind of in underneath the floor, everything.

So a lot of the joists were gone anyway. So we pulled those joists up and we poured concrete instead. Um, and that's why we decided to put it on the floor. So now we're going to have lovely, toasty underfloor downstairs, the standard 

gas boiler, efficient gas boiler. 

And then upstairs, we're just going to have radiators.

Um, 

because we're not obviously, yeah. What kind of radiators do

you have? Just standard kind of steel 

ones or? 

Jen: two totally standard. So I have, um, one upstairs in the bedroom, just a very standard, like, it kind of mimics a little bit of that cast [00:09:00] iron look. It's one of those small, slim, little, 

um, little ones. Yeah, little columns. Um, and 

then in the upstairs bathroom I have a heated towel rat.

Kate: Lovely. Yeah. I've the same, I had the same last time. I've gone for the

same this time. The kind of like that Mimic Cast Iron Calium rads. But there is a slight bit more contemporary, I guess, than cast iron. And then when we were renovating, actually, this is kind of slightly off topic, but I've kept it in the house and I'm not going to get rid of it because it's a great little kind of 

booster heater if you ever need it.

But, um, we bought a 

cast iron radiator that had been retrofitted with an electric

kind of element. So it's an 

actual cast iron radiator. Yeah, but it's plug in so

like it works like an electric 

radiator and it actually

gives great heat I used to have it in

my attic which wasn't plumbed and we might not you know Plumb the attic at all because it's just an office

space So like it works perfect for up there and I heats that whole

room kind of no problem. So that's a great Yeah, that's a great place. That's a great solution. If you're not

retrofitting the whole place, you know you're [00:10:00] not replumbing 

everything And you're not, you know, pulling pipe work up to bedrooms 

and all that and those electric cast iron rads are

Really good. 

Really good. Obviously, 

a 

Jen: efficient enough, are they? 

Kate: They 

are. They're like running a kettle, I guess. They're usually

2. 5 or 3 kilowatts. So, look, they are more expensive than a 

central heating system. Per, kind of, gas prices, we'll say. 

Um, but they're not, they work quite well. They hold the heat after they've gone off, because they're 

heavy cast 

iron. Like, 

our, 

Jen: iron's amazing for that, isn't it 

Kate: it is, yeah.

And our little one, like, it was 

only, I don't know, was it 600 millimetres wide? It was a small little one on legs. It weighed 35 

kilos. 

Jen: Oh my god. 

Kate: yeah, so like, it's, they're seriously heavy. The 

two of us lifted it up to the attic space the first time we nearly died. Like, it was so heavy. So like, they're, yeah, they really retain the 

heat after you switch them off.

So that's a really nice solution 

for people who are not ripping up the floors and not doing a full replumb, but want that little boost of heat as 

well. 

Jen: Yeah. The other

thing that can be really

helpful as [00:11:00] well, 

um, even as a temporary measure

is the plug in oil radiators. you can just buy them They are also a very good, they do a really good job of retaining the heat and heating up a small 

room. What I did when I was living in this house before it was renovated was I bought a couple of those.

I had no central heating at all. I know hot water, and I bought a couple of those and then plugged them in on those plugs that have, you know, the little manual clocks. And I just have them coming on for, you know, little bursts of time during the day. And they're really efficient, like it cost me not much.

Obviously you're right, like it's not as efficient as gas or especially as any of the you know, air to water or heat pumps. Um, but It's a temporary measure or a space that you just, can't afford to do. Like 

having a good radiator on a timer is 

Kate: Yeah, and there's, there's little smart panel ones as well. Our kind of

garage space was also doubled up as well. My husband's office, and he had just one of the flat panel smart electric radiators. 

Uh, so it was controlled by an app [00:12:00] or by Alexa or whatever. So he had it just timed for the half hour, hour before he came out to the office that it would go off at night and stuff like that.

And you could, I think there was a built in thermostat in it as well. So like once it got to temperature, it would switch itself off. So like those were like extremely inefficient at a time when they just, you know, got switched on and then you forgot to turn them off for the whole day or whatever. But like You know, there's so many other solutions, but like timers and smart connectivity and all that kind of stuff now that they're actually not a bad solution.

Um, if you get good ones, but 

um, yeah, that was my kind of boiler heater situation. So what I learned from the last time was just be cautious if it's going kind of three floors up because we had obviously like a, a kitchen level. Then the kind of hall level was a different level. Then we had the first floor, we had a return floor and then everything was in the attic.

So I guess it was a lot of, it was a big network of pipe 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: to rely to be 

completely airtight and it obviously wasn't and that's where it caused our issues 

so we're not making that mistake again, um, but I am 

[00:13:00] excited for underfloor this time. I'm really 

Jen: Oh, it's the 

Kate: actually. 

Jen: It's just, you won't be disappointed. 

Kate: Did you, do you, have underfloor, underfloor in your, you've underfloored 

downstairs in 

Jen: All downstairs? 

This is what I was going to ask 

you. Is it possible to get underfloor, upstairs? I've never seen 

it. 

Kate: Well I think

Jen: think so, but like

Kate: I saw two, two versions of this. Obviously, if you can pour a concrete slab as well, but that's a huge job, right? Because you'd have to encase it and

whatever and you have to

reinforce your, your low bearing walls or anything downstairs. So like, that's a huge thing if you're going to pour concrete between the floors.

But also, um, I saw this kind of version of underfloor that runs into the joists. Now, I don't know how good this is, but it's like. It's like big blocks of foam, like insulation foam, with grooves cut out for

that pipe 

work. 

Like you said, it goes downstairs, where the screed goes through

it, so it kind of gets embedded into these foam blocks, and then these foam blocks go between the joists upstairs.

Jen: Interesting. 

Kate: So it's not a tiny

job, [00:14:00] I don't know if it's still quite experimental, so there are kind of ways and means. around it. And then for

bathrooms, which I'm doing this time as well, uh, where we have tiled floors, we're going to do Devy

mats, which are essentially

like an electric version of underfloor heating, but

they're, yeah, they're just like a a roll up mat 

with a little network of kind of heating elements on them. And they'll go underneath the screed before you tile 

your floors. So we'll have nice toasty floors in the bathroom 

as well. Cause that was something I 

regretted. Yeah. I regretted. 

not doing it last

time. So I'm definitely 

doing it this time. 

Jen: because my downstairs bathroom does have the underfloor and my upstairs doesn't and it's, it does make a difference. And I know those maths, they're not as efficient again 

as, you know, as gas. But especially if you're thinking about putting in solar panels or renewable energy or 

something, then it's, it's a really small impact overall. 

Kate: I know, yeah, and again, again, you can have it connected to 

maybe the lights in the bathroom or 

something so you don't forget to turn it off or, you know, or a timer or something like that, that it's only a 30 minute thing, um, but it's really good for like, even, [00:15:00] 

maybe not heating the whole room, because I'll have like a towel 

radiator as well, but, um, just to evaporate the water off, the splash water off after your shower, 

Jen: it does. It keeps the whole place so dry, like it's genuinely it's just, it's brilliant for just clearing moisture out of the bathroom. And it's just such a luxury, like I really just I love it so much. the other thing I've seen, um, I've seen it online, I've watched YouTube videos about it, but I don't know, anyone that's gotten it installed.

Um, if you're redoing your house and you want, you don't, you don't want radiators taking up space in your walls, is, uh, heating pipes 

that go in behind your skirting.

Kate: Yes. Yeah, it,

Jen: so clever, I 

Kate: this is quite big in the, in the states 

as well. 

And

Jen: And the UK, I 

think. 

Kate: and it, and there's another kind of version. I did have a 

kicker radiator before, or a kicker kind of blow heater because we couldn't fit a radiator in our kitchen, in our house in Galway. So we built it into the kicker of the kitchen.

It was kind of more of a blow heater than a radiant heater or whatever. But, uh, that was kind of a, a cool option if you're tied on [00:16:00] space as well. But. They're 

not, again, not the most efficient. Um, but I've seen

other kind of panel

radiators that are sunken into the

floor as well, which is 

quite cool.

Jen: Oh, that's a good 

Kate: Um,

so almost like a little mini, we'll say, short cast iron one.

You know, big wide one, loads of different

fins on it And they sit in the kind of, uh, void under your floor, if you have suspended floors. So I think that's a really cool option.

and apparently, I only read this now, I don't know how true it is that I don't 

have allergies, but if you suffer from allergies, it's better because it doesn't disturb the 

airflow as much, so you get less dust and stuff from when you turn on your heating.

Jen: Yeah, because like, underfloor heating in general, it's super, super 

efficient and effective because the heat's distributed evenly around the room, which is great. And then radiators aren't because, you know, they just heat up certain parts of the room and you have to get a lot of air circulation in order to distribute that heat, So it's less effective.

Um, but I didn't know that about allergies. I guess that would make sense. 

Kate: Hmm. 

[00:17:00] yeah, I don't know. 

Something I read anyway. But on the, the heat pumps, right, so I, I haven't had a heat pump in any of my houses, but I know people

have, and I've slept in those houses a good few times or whatever, and like, apparently they're meant to, Not only, you know, keep

your house at a constant kind of, you know,

comfortable temperature we'll say, but it's also meant to 

distribute the heat around the 

house and it's also meant to act for cooling as well, so 

it can kind of 

be reversed. 

Jen: reverses, yeah, it can 

Kate: So it kind of works like an AC as well, 

Jen: Because to heat it, it sucks heat in from outside, so either from the air or from the ground. Um, and there's always heat outside, because we don't live in the Arctic, so even if it's, you know, low minus temperatures, which is about as cold as it ever gets in Ireland, there's actually still heat in the air.

Um, and so it's effective, but then it does the exact opposite if you need to cool your house down, So it just sucks the heat 

out of your house and pumps it out into the atmosphere. It works how a fridge works, basically. [00:18:00] My, 

Kate: and they're toasty in the

wintertime, um, but I've never had them

feel cool in the summertime. Maybe it's because it goes hand in hand

with like really insulated homes and a

lot of glazing or whatever, but like those houses always feel like stiflingly hot to me

during the summer 

months. Now, I don't know if that's just a measure of 

all the insulation rather than the actual

like heat pumps themselves, but I haven't seen it 

work fantastically well,

personally. 

Jen: like, I don't know, I don't, I don't know the, I don't know theoretically why it wouldn't because you should be able to suck air out, but then I'm wondering, does there need to be a coolant for air coming in for it to actually feel a bit cooler? Like is it sufficient to just suck out the heat and 

Kate: yeah, yeah. yeah.

Jen: does it heat up again too quickly?

I don't know. 

Kate: I always wondered that, like, because we're obviously 

getting, you know, hotter and hotter as the years go on, like, our climate's getting hotter, we're getting more of those kind of, like, hot,

I know we're not getting great weather in the summer, but [00:19:00] we are getting some of those kind of peaks of heat in the summer that we didn't get in years gone

by, and like, I've plugged in

little plug in aircon units or blow fans 

because it's so 

hot, and so sometimes I think, God, don't aircon units just make 

sense then, 

Jen: Yeah, I 

Kate: that way? 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: But if a heat pump, 

you know, actually 

worked well doing that, I'd be all for it.

Jen: My upstairs gets so hot. Like my 

upstairs bedroom

is in like a dorm or extension and it doesn't get hot for very long so I haven't, I'm not going to bother like installing aircon. But god, there's a few nights there every summer where I just cannot sleep in that upstairs bedroom. Like it really just gets swelteringly hot.

Um, but I have seen those, some of those two things work well for me. One is you have to have two fans blowing across kind of each other in the room. 

And that creates optimum, because one fan doesn't cut it, but two creates an optimum, 

uh, airflow in the room that really 

Kate: you have two, so you have like two desk fans blowing 

at 

Jen: Yeah.[00:20:00] 

Yeah.

it's really, it's genuinely, it works really, 

really well.

And the second thing is there are plug in, um, aircon units that are really effective. And they're the ones where they have this kind of cartridge and you dunk it in water and you soak it in water. And then you.

put it back in the unit and it, It's really effective at, as it passes air through the, you know, the wet. The cartridge thing kind of acts as a heat sink, Um, and it takes, uh, it takes heat out of the air that's coming through and pumps back out cooler air, and it is effective. You have to keep doing it 

every now and then, so it doesn't last for days, 

but, um, it is pretty effective.

Kate: We had one, because we used to use it in the home office and stuff, uh, Klarstein, I think was the brand or something. Um, but it was a plug in. It was almost like the big. Suitcase size ones, pretty much. Like, um, It's big and it has to be vented out so you have kind of a little vent that you pull your window down to meet and it's kind of taped up.

But it 

works fantastically well. Like, the room is like a little fridge

when you go in. It's so nice when like, you get those [00:21:00] really hot nights and you're like, you go into your room and it's like icy 

cold, it's 

Jen: Oh my god, I'd love that this summer. I might get one of those in the 

Kate: But like, it's a big unit, it's not something you'd have out all the time, so it is a bit awkward, like, it's not a great solution

obviously longer term, but yeah, I always wonder would it make

sense to have a little AC unit built in or somehow built in to that heat pump system or air

to, water system that would make it actually work like AC.

Jen: Yeah. 

I, I need something this summer. It's getting too much. 

Kate: Someone messaged me on

Instagram recently when I said I was doing a gas boiler and they said, why didn't you get a heat pump? And, Um,

I was, I was kind of advised against it, like I, said at the start, like, because it's an old home, you really need to have a more airtight, better insulated

home for them to work.

really well. Um, and then, I had read up about you could get a hybrid system, so essentially what that is, is it's a heat pump that works, we'll say, 80 percent of the time or whatever. And then on those days where you get kind of extreme weather, really cold weather, that you need an extra boost, there's almost like a, A gas boiler back up.

[00:22:00] Um, and that kicks in. Now I did look into this, but like, it's essentially the cost of putting in two systems, or two boilers, or you know, a heat pump and a boiler. So, it is a big up front cost, so you'd really want to be in the house. It takes a long

time to get your money back in it, I think. Um, but it's obviously more sustainable

because you're using less fossil fuels and less gas and you only need, use the boost

of gas when you need to have the, the boost of gas.

But for us, 

it just didn't make sense financially, I think. Um, but those 

are an option for older homes as well. those hybrid

systems.

Jen: Worth looking into. Um, especially now because you can get grants for lots of different things. Just be careful. Go back and listen to our grants episode. I think it's episode 

14. Um, and just be careful because you have to, you know, choose your installer and all 

that kind of stuff before. Yeah, there's a lot you have to do.

You should apply for the grant first. There's a whole 

rigmarole to it, but just be careful. Don't rely on, you know, definitely getting a grant. It's not that easy. 

Kate: It has to be awarded before you start work. 

Jen: yeah.

and I, I presume the size of those 

things is [00:23:00] coming down all the time, but I just could not fit it on my outside. There was just nowhere to put it.

It just 

Kate: There was no, there was nowhere to put, like, our first house in 

Dublin. We had, like, a courtyard garden, essentially. So, like, we had no space for it. You wouldn't be allowed because the protected structure mounted up on a wall or up high. So, like, we had nowhere to put it. I'm kind of saying this time, like, our garden's not that big.

Those units are too big. And you'd be sitting there on your patio staring at it. You know we had nowhere to hide it. 

So, I don't know. 

Jen: a bit of a shame. 

Kate: But, who knows, 

they're probably getting better and smaller and, you 

know, maybe we can dig a hole and do 

one of the 

Jen: This is what, yeah, that would be

optimal if you could do that, that would be the business.

Kate: Yeah.

Jen: do you have smart heating in 

Kate: Yes. We did.

Yeah, we had smart thermostats. We had

um, 

what ones, what were they called? Was it the Nest?

Yeah, I think it was the Nest. I

think it was the nest ones we had

in our house, so we had them connected with Alexa

like, that you would maintain like a, an away temperature 

if it Picked up that both their, both [00:24:00] their phones were out of the house and the house was

empty. Um, so

yes, yeah it is very smart. So you can have like your away temperature set as low or as high as 

you like. Um, And say you were coming back from holidays or whatever. You know,

give the heating a boost if you landed and you

thought it was really cold or whatever. Um, or control it remotely. So yeah, that obviously saves you a bit.

Um. But beyond

the smart connectivity and, you know, all that, zoning is really important as well, I think, you know, making sure your zones are set out, especially if you have a lot of bedrooms and you might not bedrooms that are used all the time, or now, especially with offices at home, I think

if you're not moving around a lot, you

get a lot colder

working from home, you know, if you're sitting at a desk versus other people in the house might be kind of, you know, pottering around or minding kids or whatever.

I think you need like

different zones for, How you use the house. So think that through when you're kind of planning out your zones 

for heating as well. 

That you at least have the bedrooms 

and downstairs on separate zones, but potentially even kind of three zones if it makes sense. 

Jen: and [00:25:00] that's one to think about early on 

as well. Just to make sure you're talking it through with your plumber That you can, um, that you can, you know, section 

off those, those zones and have them on separate controls. 

Kate: Definitely. 

Jen: really important. I don't have a SMART system. I kind of, my house, so I do have the zones.

I have, uh, upstairs and downstairs. Um, which is fine because my house is tiny so that works grand. Um, and I was like you know, I didn't get it put in at the time. I was like, I'll just think about what system I want best and what I'll install. And then I just never bothered because, again, the house is so small and it just doesn't really need, like, I usually just have it. at a steady temperature downstairs.

I don't have the heating on upstairs for eight months out of the year, I'd say. Um, it's just so easy to heat, 

I never bothered. But, uh If you do, yeah, if you have bigger houses, definitely worth thinking about. 

Kate: We, believe it or not, when we moved 

into the house 

we were renovating at the moment, like three years ago when we moved into it, 

there was only one, there was a boiler with just one 

zone, it was just on off, right? So that meant we couldn't 

Jen: that's what we

all grew up with, like, you [00:26:00] know. Go round and turn on and off the radiators. 

Kate: no but as in 

like, we couldn't have, we couldn't have like, 

hot water without having the 

radiators on. 

Jen: Oh my god, okay. 

Kate: Because like in the 70s or 80s that house had

a back boiler that they used to use

for their hot water And stuff. So like, We, we moved

into this house We were like okay, we

don't need the heating, but I need hot water. So you were turning on the 

heating and making sure all the rads were off, but they were kind of, pipe work was kind of getting hot.

So the house was getting hot before we 

could get hot water. It 

was ridiculous. Anyway, we lasted about a month and a half and I was like, 

God, a plumber and electrician. And I was like, I have to put in an electric shower just to get us over this hump. Because like, we didn't have hot water most mornings, like trying to 

put it on makeshift timers and stuff 

like that.

It just wasn't working. But yeah. Definitely have more than one zone.

Jen: yeah. It's insane. If you have a larger house, like it's so 

worth getting those smart, uh, those smart systems. They do save you so much 

money, like so much 

more efficient. Um, I think it's really worth it.

Kate: Yeah, definitely.

Jen: [00:27:00] yeah. 

Kate: think if it makes your, if you feel it makes your 

life easier at all, like, go for it. Cause it's not as expensive 

as you think and I can actually end up saving you

money in the long term.

Jen: I'm on the fence in my small house where, you know, there's not loads of people running around the place. I think if you're in a bigger house and there's more areas to control 

and there's more people's needs to cater to then I think they can be brilliant, 

Kate: Or you like a lot of lamps. 

Jen: Oh, Are you liking that laugh. I do have smart, in fairness I 

do have two smart lamps, 

so 

you know, I'm coming into the 

21st century And I have a smart robot hoover, which is brilliant, but 

for me because the house is so small like the light switches work fine and I just don't really need to 

I'm not against them, I just don't need them in my current living 

Kate: I agree. 

No, I agree. Um, I agree with you in that like, you know, switching on at the wall is just easier. And especially if you've guests, if you've guests in your house, having smart lighting can be really confusing for people. [00:28:00] Do you know, they don't know what to do when they're switching off stuff and they don't know how to use voice.

So anytime anyone has ever stayed in my house and I haven't 

been there, like all the lamps are switched off at the lamps. 

Like the, you know, so I have to kind of go around 

switching everything back on or whatever because no one knows how to

use smart 

Jen: and I've stayed in hotels before where I'm like, I don't know how to go to 

bed.

And I don't know why I need to have an iPad like, 

affixed to my bedside locker just to turn off the feckin lights. Like it, just, I don't know, 

Kate: And the curtains and everything, like, 

Jen: Yeah. 

Although I would like smart curtains 

in my office.

Anyway, I'm gonna, I'm on a tangent. We've got

a whole different 

episode about that. Listen to 

our

gadgets episode. Um Are you going to get solar panels? 

Kate: We are putting in provision for it, 

but we 

haven't. We're not going to immediately put them in, but because we're doing all the rewiring now, it makes sense to put in the provision for them and put in like, um, provision for car chargers or any of that stuff while we're doing all that rewiring. So I would say we will, but not immediately.

It might be just a separate job because [00:29:00] like you said, you might, we 

might be able to get the grants for it. It might just be a cleaner thing to do that a little bit down the road.

Jen: Yeah. I didn't get them when I was moving into this house because at the time the payoff period is just way too long. But my god, it's so good now. So I'm 

going to look into that. That's my, I'm just going to put that on my to do list right now. 

Kate: And our house, our house, our house has quite a long garage

at the 

back, which is kind of our home office and gym. So like we have a big flat roof there, like 

and it's south 

facing. So it makes a lot of sense in our house now, I think, to do it 

So I think we will. I think we will. 

Jen: Okay, I think that's it for heating. I don't have any advice for you listener on what is 

the best boiler to get or anything like that.

Just don't cheap out 

is the main thing I would say. If you think you need to get a new boiler, I would just get it, get it serviced every year. Um, and I think like Glowworm and Fleissman are the two that I got good

recommendations for anyway. Definitely don't cheap out on this one. And then yeah, think about zones if you're planning, If you're early in your planning process, think about zones. 

If you're on the fence about [00:30:00] underfloor heating, definitely get it. 

Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can 

at all, 

Jen: get a smart system. 

Kate: and, and, and, put in the Devy mat if you're 

doing a 

bathroom 

as 

well. That extra little boost of heat in a bathroom floor is nice if you can do it at all. 

Jen: It's a luxury, and you deserve it. 

Kate: And if you are doing your heating system for an old house, just, you know, be aware of air getting into, you know, boilers and losing pressure because of that and leaks and all that mess in old houses is fun to deal with.

But also just think about heat pumps may not be the best solution in isolation, you know, just for 

those cold spots, unless you're insulating every wall and 

pouring concrete on the floor, um, might not be the best solution for you.

Jen: Totally. But don't rule them out because there is a couple of spot solutions that might 

work in in your house as well. 

Kate: Yeah, there might be, there might be. 

Jen: get a good plumber and good luck to you. because I know they're like 

gold dust. I had a good plumber. All right, 

Kate: You're asking too much now Jen, you're 

asking too much.

useful [00:31:00] Oh, hope that was guys, 

I'll see you again in a few weeks. 

Jen: We'll see you in two 

Kate: Bye!

Outro

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