Episode 44 - Dining in Style

This week we’re diving into dining - from compact kitchen nooks to dramatic dining rooms, we'll go through design, layouts, materials, and lighting to help you create a dining room that is both beautiful and practical for everyday living.

Editor's note: We were short on time today and are talking super fast to fit everything in - we understand if you need to play this episode at half speed, sorry! ;)

Items mentioned:

• We both have a tulip-style dining table (Eero Saarinen style) 
• Ghost chairs - Philippe Starck style
• Carver chairs with arms that can double up as bedroom chairs
• Bench seating with hinged lid (preferred over drawers)
• Slope the back of the seat 5-7 degrees
• Poly-velvet fabric is ideal for easy-to-clean upholstery
• Bar stools should be 65-70cm maximum (assuming standard countertop height of 90 - 95cm)
• Solid wood tables - seal well with oil - we love Ethnicraft wood tables
• The Interior Design Handbook by Frida Ramstedt has great dining measurements
• Dr. Beckmann’s (fabric cleaner)

Jenny's dining dimensions:

• 90cm diameter round table
• 175 x 185cm bench seating

Follow the podcast on Instagram @ripitup_podcast_official, or follow us - Jenny is @workerscottage and Kate is @victorianrathmines

Transcript

Episode 44 - Dining

[00:00:00] 

Podcast Intro

Jen: Welcome to Rip It Up, the renovations podcast. I'm Jenny. I'm Kate. And between us, we've renovated a lot of houses and it hasn't scared us off. In fact, we loved it so much that we can't stop talking about it. So in this podcast, we will give you all the tools and info that you need to tackle your own renovation like a pro.

Jen: Welcome back to the podcast. Hi

Kate.

Kate: Hi, Jen.

Jen: How are you 

doing?

Kate: All good? 

All good. In this rainy day. 

Jen: yeah, 

yeah, 

we're in a 

week. 

Um, anyway, 

uh, good to 

introduce this 

next topic 

for today, which is all about getting outta the rain, getting very cozy and I feel very [00:01:00] timely for. 

Uh, 

the 

time of 

year that it is, 'cause we're coming into silly

season and we're gonna be entertaining a

lot.

So we're talking about dining

rooms, dining 

tables, dining areas 

if 

you don't have a 

separate 

dining room. 

Um, 

and 

they've evolved, 

Uh, they've 

evolved a lot. You put a post up on your Instagram this week 

Kate: I did. Yeah, because, 

so it's 

pretty

timely for me, and I feel like I've done this 

in both my houses where I've made the dining room, the

kind of center house because like typically when you extend 

out the back of a house, you're left with a 

kind 

of central 

room 

that maybe 

has 

no windows. And 

I think that

makes a 

perfect dining room. Personally, I love being cozy in a dining space and you know, wanted to sit there for a long

time. And I feel like 

it being in the center. 

It doesn't really matter. Like I don't 

I don't know if

I agree with like you need a load of natural light 

in a dining 

space

because you typically use it in the evening.

Right? Like, like you might use it a 

lit, some people might use it for breakfast, but some people might use 

a 

kitchen island at 

breakfast

for a bit, like about quicker, more informal kind of thing.

So, I don't know. I'd like getting

co.

and just, you know,

Sitting [00:02:00] for a while and having comfy 

seats and stuff. So that's what I've done, um,

in both mine. But it really divided

people

to be honest. 

Some 

people are like,

I have to see 

the garden. I have to have natural light, I have to have a skylight above. so why do we talk about the kind of

pros and cons and what 

we've done? 

Jen: Like, I 

get 

that 

for breakfast and 

I'm a morning 

person, 

so

I'm 

ki I kind of do see 

it to 

an extent, 

but my

strong preference would be for really cozy,

really muted

lighting.

Um, I 

love like 

a bit of 

drama in a dining room. Like really like

talking 

Kate: If you can 

have a fire in a dining room, it's like 

tick, tick, tick. Like 

I just think, yeah, I love 

a bit of drama. My last, remember my last dining room

was brown, Like, 

that London 

clay 

color. 

I just love, yeah. Why 

not? 

Jen: was so nice and you had that lovely dark

dining, uh,

or

um, 

fireplace 

as well. But art, it's such an amazing place to 

put art and, and just talking 

points

and just like having things around

that 

are

interesting for 

people to kind of look

at and talk about. 

and 

I guess it

depends on your

hosting style 

and like everything we 

say,

every single episode,

every

single topic we [00:03:00] talk 

about 

in this podcast, we 

always say,

think 

about 

how you 

are realistic 

going to use the space and work 

backwards from there.

So Like, If you host a 

lot, 

then I

think our preference

is. 

the right one because 

that's going to lend 

itself really well to like cozy 

evenings. like my little dining area

often gets called 

a black hole

because

often 

people will 

come over, 

we'll sit down for dinner at seven and all of a sudden it's 

like

two or three o'clock in the morning where

people are

watching what the hell 

happened? 

Kate: Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. 

But yours is like, and it's so, um, it's so functional for such a small 

space, but like, it doesn't feel tight for the size of it. Like on paper, if you said like,

this is the 

size of my dining 

table and banquette, you'd be like,

would you fit anyone around there? But like, 

you absolutely do. And it doesn't feel cramped.

So like 

I have 100000000%

come around to your way 

of

thinking on the whole banquette style 

Jen: So love it. 

Kate: And not only does it save space and like in your 

scenario as well, you've storage in it and all that. I think it works really 

well with families actually. So I put in

a dining bench this time. The dream is.

like a full [00:04:00] banquette to wrap around my 

dining room walls, but

like

didn't 

have the budget 

for that right 

now.

So 

now I just have a 

bench 

and kind of four dining chairs around my 

table. But like it works. It

works so well with kids 'cause kids love climbing on the bench and like

you know, 

there's

less chance they'll 

fall off and they're 

small and stuff. So it's 

just, um, 

I 

find it very

easy. like,

one person 

asked me on my Instagram, oh, how's it like tidy like that when 

you have kids slop and pesto pasta everywhere? And I was Like well I have a black throw on 

the bench. 

I just throw it out 

when the kids are on it. 

And 

like,

it's actually fine to maintain, 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: think 

it's easy to

catch the mess. It's 

like, 

I

don't know, it's just so functional

and I think 

it just looks good as

well. 

Jen: Yeah, agreed. 

and if you're in a small house like 

mine, like there is absolutely no excuse to 

not

have banquettes 

eating. 

Like you, you just have to, 

Um, 

because there's so 

much storage underneath there, like

it's

absolutely insane. 

Like I have,

I just, 

I saw all like my dogs.

Spare of food. Hoovers 

all my tools and toolboxes stacks of like I love, 

like changing out the art. 

I've [00:05:00] got 

a

picture, two picture 

shelves 

behind my banquette dining table 

and I have loads of, 

um, 

art up there that I 

Kate: you've loads 

of sweetss. I'm always eyeing

Jen: slow and sweets. 

Kate: Whenever I get hungry, I see

the

sweets and I'm 

like 

I really want sweets. But like I. 

Jen: It is a low, 

sorry, seats. I have, I dunno if I've ever told 

this story before, but I, I was telling it

to somebody at the weekend 

on, on, 

when we were recording 

home of the 

year. 

It

was, 

it 

was peak lockdown, 

peak COVID, 

and there

were so many restrictions in place, you know. 

Yeah, 

everyone had to stay like two 

meters 

apart, 

which 

is impossible. in my house It's so small, but they managed it somehow. 

Um, but I remember it's 

a long 

day. So like

behind the 

scenes for home with you, you don't get to meet the judges. You have to leave the house.

A production 

team 

comes like 7, 7 30,

early in the morning. 

Get set 

up, 

you're 

gone 

for the

day. The judges 

come in, they do their thing, 

and then when they've

left 

you can come back

home.

And I remember coming back home and one of the lovely

producers, um, was sitting there and she was like, listen, I have to report an incident that happened. And I was like, what happened? Thinking

You know, obviously they [00:06:00] broke something or 

like, was somebody hurt or what 

happened? 

And

uh, I had a, a jar of jelly beans in the, on that little 

shelf 

behind my dining table and 

said,

uh, Hugh Wallace 

got into

the jelly beans.

And I just thought the way she said it

was so 

funny, 

I just 

had this image of him like uncontrollably, like cooking monster style. I've been like, 

Kate: No COVID, no.

Jen: And she was

like, 'cause you're gonna have to throw them out now 'cause of COVID. And I

was like,

okay, 

Kate: You are like, be all right. I'll leave them there for 24 to 48 hours. That'll be fine. 

I'm 

sure

That 

is 

so 

Jen: And we're still here to tell the tale.

Kate: yeah, but like I agree with you. When you have a

small

space like banquette or a bench

seat, it's kind of a no-brainer. Like I did an upholstered bench

as opposed to my hard bench. I don't know if I could sit in a 

hard

bench, 

like for an extended period, like

it, 

it's 

Jen: mine's not 

upholstered. Mine is hard. Um, 

Kate: have a seat

pad, 

right? 

Jen: got a seat pad. Yeah, 

I got a seat pad, which kind of 

slips and 

slides 

around a 

lot and I, I've put some 

of those 

mats underneath

it 

to try 

to keep it in

place. I need to get something a bit more 

[00:07:00] robust. like maybe 

Velcro stripped or something like that.

Um, but I have a 

pad 

in place. You don't 

need a 

very 

thick pad is 

what I would say. 

Kate: No,

No, Just some sort of level of

poultry rather than 

a

church pew kind '

of style. 

cause I think people have been moving around too

much, 

but I, 

I 

love like a, a wood dining chair.

Jen: I do too, but can I just go back to Banquette for

one second because I have two very 

important points that if anyone's thinking of getting put in, here's critical, 

right. Number one, from a storage

perspective, make sure that you have 

a hinge 

lid that lids 

lifts 

up 

from the 

top and 

not 

drawers that pull out 

because, 

and that goes for 

everything.

Your ottoman bed, any type 

of storage, it is 

so much easier. 

To lift 

it up from the top and then pull, you 

know, 

put things in and out. 

You'll fit more in.

you'll get 

things in more easily 

and 

you won't have to 

like, crawl under 

your dining table 

and 

like hit

your head trying to 

like,

you 

know, squeeze 

a 

hoover into a drawer. 

So that's number one, and that's really 

important. And 

then number two is

just have the back of

the, 

Um, 

of the 

seat sloped, even 

just 

a little

bit. 

I think the gradient I

had was somewhere between like.

Do You 

know 

what? [00:08:00] I 

need 

to look it up and put it in the show notes, but I'm gonna say like '

seven to 15%.

uh, gradient.

Um, 

so 

just 

a gentle little slope 

and it 

just makes 

it EI don't know

if it 

even 

feels more 

comfortable, but 

it looks 

Kate: it's not 

pushing you 

forward, 

or it doesn't feel 

like

it's pushing you 

Jen: yeah. 

cause otherwise the ridge at the top of it 

even 

if

it's, if 

it's,

just 

a straight

plain 

backing, 

will 

stick into the top of your back. 

So it just

needs a slight 

little slope 

so 

that it doesn't have this, this line sticking 

to the 

top of Your back. 

Those are my two

critical 

things about 

banquet's seat. And actually the last thing I'll say while

I

have the floor, while I have the 

mic,

is 

just to 

give people a sense 

of size. So if 

anyone's 

on my

Instagram at Workers 

Cottage, 

you can see the 

size 

of 

my dining area. 

The table that 

I have 

in there is 

90 

centimeters. 

Kate: Mm-hmm. 

Jen: I think it's 90 centimeters. Yeah, I think it's nine centimeters.

Um, I'll

measure it and put that in the show notes. If I'm wrong, I'll correct myself.

And I 

have fit 

six 

people 

relatively comfortably 

around 

there for

dinner 

and 

uh, 

11 of the 

girls 

around when 

Kate: 11. 

That's 

amazing.

Jen: Same. 

So, [00:09:00] and then 

the, 

the dimensions 

of 

the seating, I 

think they're around like

17..

To 18, 

uh, 

something like that, 1.7, 1.8 , uh, meters. So it's small. And I will get 

those exact measurements and put them in the show notes and you can see them on Instagram. 

Listeners, I'm sorry, this is an edit. It was 1.7 to 1.8 meters. Not that small. Okay. On with the show.

Kate: So I think like my, my dining table is

almost the same as yours and that is 

a 

pedestal, which I 

love

in a dining 

space,

I think it gives you lots of leg room, no one's banging off,

um, legs underneath 

and 

you can kind of sit on the corner. So you kind 

of squeeze more people around around re

noval mine is is bigger.

It's two meters by 1.2, but I still think the banquette kind of works. So my room is probably bigger, but

you've been in my house, like the front room and the dining room are kind of offset from

each other.

So it kind of makes 

sense to offset the

dining 

table in

my room, which I have done for the banquette.

Um, 'cause then it kind of keeps that line like 

a straight 

diagonal and kind of gives a nice kind of pathway

through. 

Um, And it's something, thinking back on my [00:10:00] last house I didn't do, I kind of did it more 

formal where the dining 

table was just 

centered in the room and chairs all around it. And that's definitely a bit more formal, but talking it in and doing that

banquette makes it just that little 

less 

formal, a little bit more comfortable for people

and a bit more kind of accessible.

You 

know, you're

kinda keeping those pathways free and stuff. 

Jen: and you can fit more people In

Now 

obviously

people do have to 

scoot around 

and not everybody is up 

for that. So if that, if you really hate the 

idea 

that

that's fine.

Um, 

but you 

can fit 

so 

many more people around 

than you can, even 

with small slim chairs, you know. 

you know? 

Kate: Yeah, 

yeah, And then like to add to

your banquette, so I only have a bench on one side 

and I have four chairs 

on 

the other side.

But if you're kind 

of tight on 

space that way, I

love the 

way you've done a clear ghost chair,

just so it doesn't block your view and it keeps it very open

looking. 

But I think another 

kind of nice option is chairs that are 

stackable or

that you

can put away 

or foldable or something when

you

have this kind of overflow.

Or I 

love the idea of CarVal chairs being bedroom chairs elsewhere in

your house that still fit your 

dining 

space. You

Jen: So you can take, 

move 

things around. I, I love 

[00:11:00] this. I think this 

Kate: yeah, I love a bedroom chair

anyway, like where do your clothes stay when you're not sure where they're going? You 

know? you need a chair in your room.

Jen: someone 

needs to design a 

solution for

this of like, The clothes that you're taking off. You're like, these don't need to go in the wash yet, but I'm

not 

Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

the middle, middle ground. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: But I think 

that's a great, like bedroom

chairs that can double up as 

extra dining chairs as well when you need 

them is a great idea. But like I 

think like 

I have four chairs and the bench and there's loads

of space in 

that. Like eventually I'll get my grand Banquette two sides

like you have 

But for now it works really 

well. 

Jen: well.

what you, what 

else you had in your old 

house that 

I thought 

was really 

clever 

was, um,

Your dining chairs were comfortable enough to be 

used 

as kind of arm chairs.

So if you 

had 

extra people around 

for a 

match or

something like that, like that required 

people to 

be in the sitting

room 

around 

the 

tv, 

then they could be 

pulled in 

and used for that. 

So just chairs that 

are 

multipurpose so, 

so helpful. I 

Kate: Yeah. 

Those kind of carava

chairs that have the armrests on 

them or some sort of level of

armrest, I think, 

I think,

work well. And dining

chairs that I've 

had 

before. I had the elbow [00:12:00] chairs,

those kind 

of old elbow chairs replicas of them. And then the 

C pad was a big square 

C pad, 

so

you didn't feel like you were kind of sitting on a small kind of area, and it was slightly upholstered

and just a pleather. 

Um, that

leather 

was like bombproof, you know, you could wipe 

it, everything. So 

that's a great option for people. 

And this time I wanted something a bit

more comfortable

Kian wasn't

like totally 

sold on the more, you know, overall wood effect, 

but I generally 

don't like the look of upholstery chairs, so I was 

like 

digging and 

digging and digging. But the ones I got, 

I 

actually really like, I

like the kind of mid-century legs and stuff in 

them, but the upholstery 

just

really catches 

you around the 

back as well. like just really 

supports you. 

So I feel like I can sit there for.

We've had a good few people over now

at 

different times, 

and 

we've sat 

there for hours kind of comfortably. Um, 

and even 

guests 

actually. it's funny, a lot of 

guests would go straight for the banquette, 

like, or the 

Jen: Yeah.

it's so cozy.

I just 

Kate: Yeah. It is so cozy.

It's kind of like, like even when I'm sitting on it now,

like, um, on 

my 

laptop, but like I cross my legs

sometimes. 

We're just

eating together or 

whatever. We're just 

eating a takeaway or something like that. Like it [00:13:00] feels 

like you're on a couch, kind of,

which 

I really 

like. 

So I'm all for the 

banquette.

Jen: I often ha I have a 

bunch of scatter cushions in my, um, 

around my banquette. 

So 

it means kind of people 

can 

move them

around and use 

them

to 

kinda lean against, 

they're almost like alarm

rests that to 

kind of create 

your own little

chair. Um, 

So, 

yeah. Of them 

Kate: So table then, uh, we

both 

have a pedestal table or tulip

Jen: a pedestal 

Kate: you wanna

call it. 

So like middle 

central,

you 

know, pedestal in the middle, and no legs, around 

the sides. I think it works really, well 'cause

you're.

Knees aren't 

knocking off stuff. I always think of

this restaurant I used to love going

to in Galway, but it had all that kind of Ty, Pty furniture and like, I loved the restaurant, 

but like, 

oh,

sometimes we sat at this table, it was like 

an 

old writing 

desk or something random like that.

and Your knees like, I'm tall enough, 

so like my knees would always

be hitting off 

the underside and.

you're 

hitting off stuff, it just 

makes your whole

eating, dining experience So

unenjoyable

Jen: worse than sitting at an uncomfortable table and there's no excuse for it. and like, I don't think there is anything more

comfortable than[00:14:00] 

a tulip table.

So the table we both have, it's 

a knockoff of an 

ear siren in design, which 

is the tulip

table. 

So

just a thing on top,

and 

then 

one central stem

coming down the middle. And 

if you 

have a banquette

set 

up, 

then that's basically mandatory because you. Can't have your people 

knock on their 

knees, against 

legs, or, you know, anything, 

really, and just gonna 

be tripping over it.

Um, So, yeah, mandatory and like, I don't care what the table looks like if it's uncomfortable to sit 

at. 

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. And like you

said, or like you said earlier, like the

corners then

are not

off limits, you know? 'cause you know, like they're,

people can squeeze more. So like mine is a two meter long one, like I

said, and 1.2 wide.

I can comfortably fit six, but I can squeeze eight. You know, like with chairs and whatever. So like it does give you a lot more

flexibility if you're someone who kind of entertains in bigger groups. So I would 100% stand over that In terms of materials. 

Mine is, yours is a kind of a laminate version of 

the white 

top, 

Jen: Yeah, mine is laminate. I got laminate

because of cost. I just didn't have 

an I. They had 

either like a 

Kate: enough? You [00:15:00] don't find any Yeah. No 

issues that 

Jen: So 

easy to 

clean. Now I'm, I'm careful

enough, 

Kate: you'd use Trivets and stuff for 

hot

pots? 

Jen: I would 

for hot pots, now I have put hot plates, you know, like literally from the oven down on top of it

without 

thinking sometimes, you know, And like yeah, it's been, it's perfect. Now there's 

there's the

odd, 

like if You I think if you were to like hold it up to the 

light and 

like

look at, the surface, you 

probably see

some scratches 

and

marks. like 

it's not perfect, 

but it 

looked perfect 

from a casual 

distance. 

Do you 

know? So, and 

there's no, 

there's no,

like rips

or, or 

dents 

or anything in it, So 

it 

lasts a lot 

longer than I thought it would. 

Kate: yeah. And I have the 

stone

version of it

so

mine is, Calta Marble, I

think. 

Yeah, Calta. And

it's. I mean like,

I've had 

it for

five or six years. Kids are at it every day and it's grand. Like, it, like, I mean, people would terrify you to think like, you know, a stone table will be ruined 

in a week. It's 

not 

like, it's fine.

Like you, if you, 

if you crouch down in the right light, you'll see the watermarks and maybe water

rings. But in terms of staining,

like we've no staining. I wouldn't say 

[00:16:00] we're uber careful. Like, do you know, we eat curries on it, we drink red wine in it, like we've s spilled it oil on it, and it all kind of comes off.

Um, 

like the

I think we 

got one stain one 

time that I 

put some bread so on, but like, overnight and

it kind 

of 

took it out.

So like 

yeah, it's more durable 

than you'd think.

I think, you know, as long as

you're comfortable with those slight swirl marks or, scuff marks or kind 

of

maybe water rings or those kind of calcium kind of marks or whatever on the marble. Um, 

Jen: Which 

as we mentioned in our 

previous

episode about countertops And 

materials, we both are. 'cause that's just part of owning

something natural,

like, it is going to develop 

a little

history.

Kate: Patina. Yeah. like wood. Wood on the other hand can actually be a lot more hassle, like real wood.

like you, do have to maintain it a bit.

It has to 

be sealed 

well. 

Like I've heard some people getting those quite expensive ethnic craft

tables.

Jen: And they look so beautiful. 

I 

Kate: they look so beautiful, but 

Jen: love them, 

Kate: My recommendation would be even if, even

if it has a protective layer on it, put more protective layer in

it, put some work top

[00:17:00] oil 

in it, put some something 

to protect 

the top. 

Because once you start

putting, like you said, hot plates or water rings, You know, condensation off the water, glasses, all that 

like that will Mark 

Wood without a 

shadow of doubt. So 

like, 

Jen: you're someone who 

who enjoys, you 

know, setting 

a

table and who likes to have, you know, 

lots of things around their 

table, place not, Yeah.

Like if you like tableware, then 

that's, that's a great option for 

you. Like go for 

Kate: yeah. 

I'm absolutely not against it. I love wood tables, but they are

just, you have to be a little bit more 

careful with them, 

especially real wood or real wood veneer. And 

real wood 

veneer is like almost impossible to repair yourself, like without a very

specialist

kind of repair

place. Solid wood ones,

just protect them with the 

proper

oil

Jen: Yeah. But I do

love 

that. Look, I love ethno craft 

tables. I

Kate: Yeah, I 

Jen: been popular recently. Is that kinda like natural wood edge?

I think that can look great in some homes. Like 

it's,

it 

depends on your aesthetic that you're

going for, but 

it 

does look fab. But 

if you're up 

for the maintenance then 

it's, it's

fate. 

I will 

say 

no to glass. 

in Any 

Kate: [00:18:00] I

hate glass 

Jen: the maintenance is 

way beyond me 

Kate: Every time someone puts a glass down, they're almost

apologizing. It's just so loud and like it's just, oh, I hate 

it.

I hate it And It never looks 

clean either. 'cause you see all the marks

in it. Everything. I just think it's 

uncomfortable to use and cold 

looking. It's a bit, yeah.

No, not for

me. not for 

me. 

to be honest. Even though it 

is

Jen: technically durable.

even because it can take like hot lights And stuff like that, but is at what cost?

Do you know? just it's a no for me. 

Kate: Talking about seats 

as well. One thing that annoys

me a lot 

is. Having two seating 

areas

beside

each

other. So 

like, that's why I can have 

my dining

space 

away 

from my kitchen 

island because I'm like, I'm gonna pick 

one or the other. And you'll always

gravitate toward the one

you're kind

of most 

comfortable at or whatever. So then one 

becomes kind 

of redundant. So 

I think by having them kind of 

spaced out with a

lounge area 

or something, or 

like, 

you know, flipped the 

other way 

I think 

we use both equally. 

Um, but diet, 

but 

stools at an island, this annoys

me so 

much and I

see 

it so much 

and images online and everything.[00:19:00] 

90 centimeters 

is a, an island height 

for the most 

part, right? That That countertop height,

90 to 95. We did ours 95 just 'cause we're a little bit

taller, but like

the

stools for that should be 65 centimeters, 

maybe 70. Like don't get 75 

centimeter stools. They're bar counter.

So if 

you try and

sit at 

an

island with a 75 

centimeter stool,

your knees will be kind of hitting the top for a lot of

people. so like, 

getting the right height stools, or

if you love those adjustable pedestal ones, cool. Go, go for those 

ones.

But like 

getting

75 centimeter stools on a, 95 centimeter, 90 centimeter worked up, you just want a 

space for your 

knees. 

Jen: It just means that you 

always 

have 

to sit then 

sideways 

against the wor, the 

Kate: or you're 

or you're, you're trying to eat like this and you're up too high. You know, you're kind of crouching, like crouching over your food or bending over your food.

So 65 max 70 

centimeters, 

I'd

say for a 90 centimeter kind of island height 

Um, but stools, like, I don't know if I believe so much that you

need backs 

on 

stools. 

Jen: Oh, I'm against you there. I [00:20:00] like a back on a stool. 

Kate: no, I don't, I'm not, I don't not like it. But some people are like, drop dead. A stool has to have a back in it. Whereas I think if

you have a good seating area and a good bar foot, you know, the, the, the bar 

for 

your feet to rest on. 

Jen: actually 

take that more importantly, over a backing somewhere to put your 

Kate: way 

more comfortable that you're somewhere good. Yeah.

Yeah. If you're somewhere good 

to put

your feet, you kind of don't notice the 

back. 

Do you know?

But 

like, I'm not against.

it, I just, 

Jen: if, if, if 

it's not a back, 

I'll take 

a kind 

of 

a shaped like slight little kind of a

bucket 

style, like shaped to the 

seating. So it's a 

Kate: But like a, a bar 

for 

a bar for your feet

is absolutely 

imperative in 

my mind. And then

I 

think the 

reason I like, don't like the back, I like it with no back.

Sometimes I just think it looks tidier. It looks a bit more streamlined, not having a load of island 

stools. I also think

if you're designing your kitchen,

if

you can at 

all, if 

you're putting 

island steels, try not, 

to have them all in a 

line

because 

it's just not 

Jen: so good. 

Kate: No 

Jen: grand 

maybe for

two

people, but you're [00:21:00] still sitting like 

side by side, facing the same 

direction, which is never comfortable really 

in, in, 

any scenario. It's like maybe if 

you're like,

you know, 

at the bar of a nice restaurant or something. 

or like, but 

It's just,

it's 

Kate: but it's in, it's in pairs. 

You, you would never book the bar in

a restaurant of those 

four e 

Do you know? You'd 

book twos. So 

like, I 

just think 

I 

did, I made that

mistake in my last house. 

'cause I wanted this big long island,

but

it just, it doesn't 

work. 

Jen: Yeah. And you see it in all the pictures 

and you 

just don't even think about it. So you're like, oh, like straight

island, three stools in a row. Like that's what I'll do. And then it just

becomes

unusable. 

like, you just can't, you just never end 

up 

sitting at it. So yeah, 

one on the corner 

or like 

a rounded island 

or 

something like that. 

Kate: yeah.

yeah. 

Or like a an overhang on one side that's kind of hidden as you come in or something 

just to

give you that option to pull around the,

the stool. When, when you have more people. So that would be

my kind of 2 cents on island. lighting. Then I know I'm gonna let you, I'm, I'm gonna let you

just go here.

Just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kick back for a minute

because I totally stole your lighting idea

from my house 

this 

time. 

Jen: Did 

you? So I think for [00:22:00] of all, like lighting is 

critical in

every area. And like if You, if you're 

listening 

and you haven't listened to our lighting episodes, like go back, it is so important. 

It's 

critical.

if you get it right, 

it'll 

transform 

your home. 

so lighting in a dining 

area, 

this is where you want people to feel.

At their 

absolute best. It's where you want them to look at their absolute best. It's where 

you want 

them to feel 

comfortable. you don't need strong 

lighting. Like maybe you can have, You know, bring that in like as a lamp or something 

if 

you're like 

doing homework

at that. table, whatever.

But 

you just don't 

need strong lighting 

over a, dining table. So it has to be diffuse wall lighting, like there is no 

Kate: Yeah. 

Jen: Excuse needed, 

and I'm 

all for pendants 

over a dining table, that's absolutely fine, but 

that needs to be low or dimmable at the 

very 

very least, and it needs to be a nice diffuse

light. 

So that means that like the surrounding 

lampshade or something like that

is,

um, 

covers it in a way that means that there isn't 

just like 

a direct naked

bulb shining down 

top 

of you? I 

just. 

That's, 

it. That's, I have a hard line 

on this one, 

Kate: and 

I know we've spoken about this book before, but you know the

Interior Design Handbook,

the Frida 

Ramstead [00:23:00] one. So 

there's a whole

section on dining

and 

like the height 

of pendants and the 

size of 

the pendant 

relative

to the 

table and all

that kind of 

stuff. so

that guideline is. Absolutely.

It, it's just so interesting to actually look at the technicalities of

like 

lighting and 

lighting over table, But I've, 

I've gone 

with your kind

of style pendant over my new dining table. and it was kind of an unfortunate error that the.

Uh, Electrician cut the.

cable too short, but then it was actually a good 

outcome

'cause I went for the bigger one when I reordered and it looks

way better in the space, I think. 

Jen: It looks amazing. I love it. 

Kate: I've put no other lights in

my dining room except 

this

pendant, which I've draped 

to the 

side from the ceiling rows over the 

table.

I think it's maybe 80 something centimeters, depending on your ceiling height.

It should

be kind of proportionally, whatever, a third or something, uh, from the table.

and then.

I just think it's amazing. At night it's like invisible, like there's no,

you can't see it 'cause 

it's completely plain, 

it's completely white, but everything just 

melts into one at night

and you just see 

this light over the dining table This di kind of

light. so it just kind of like spotlights 

it, but like [00:24:00] softly.

And I 

have no other light 

in the room and

I just think it feels so inviting

and cozy and I just think, yeah, I love 

a pendant

over a dining table just to kind 

of anchor it

Jen: Yeah, 

I will 

say just make 

sure there's, 

like 

anyone listening,

like

the length, um, we can put those

lengths into the show 

notes, but 

just make sure 

that it's 

not

In anyone's eye line. So

like anyone who's sitting 

at 

your dining table looking at somebody across the way from them, 

there shouldn't be any light 

in their 

eye line. 

Like it 

should 

just you know, 

it 

should be 

nice

and over their head and

and 

uh, 

Kate: Yeah, no, 

I, I absolutely love, um, I love

the

pendant 

I put 

in now And a lot of people say, oh, but 

I'm putting a roof light over it.

Do you know? And new extensions 

and 

stuff. 

if you're doing that, 

you can still drape 

it,

like you can still have your

pendant 

fitting

in the 

ceiling a little bit to the left and then drape it across and still having it coming under your, your roof

light. It's all doable. LEDs and like

how thin the cables are 

and 

stuff like that now

make it so doable.

so I'd say

Yeah. 

try and avoid spotlights in your dining 

space 

as

well, 

Or at least have them switched off when

you're 

dining.

Jen: Yeah. At least some switch off. Yeah. Or di

[00:25:00] dimmable at the, very least. But yeah, switched off Ideally. I just don't think there's any

need for 

them in a 

dining space. 

Kate: No, 

I don't 

either. Um, 

and then fabrics make your

life easy. I always say 

that pleather, wipeable,

poly velvets something that you can kind of easily clean and 

Have your

Dr.

Beckman's on the go somewhere that you 

can easily 

clean up 

messes. 

Jen: Yeah. 

And the one thing I 

will 

say is 

helpful about having, um, cushions made to sit on your banquette if you're

getting a banquette versus, uh, 

kind of built in upholstered, is 

that you 

can zip

them

off 

and throw them into the washing machine. And then put them back on if something does happen. Um, But yeah.

we have the

Kate: but That's mine. I love my new dining space. 

I'm all for 

Jen: last 

question. How 

do you 

feel about rugs under 

dining tables? 

Kate: Um,

I think, were we talking about this somewhere recently? It was on a 

news talk

or something. 

It only works. 

if you can pull

out the chairs

and the chairs are still

on the rug, 

you'd never want the 

the legs 

catching the edge of the rug. Or you never want like 

someone sitting on a chair where two legs are on the rug and two legs are off the rug. 'cause they'll feel wobbly and [00:26:00] imbalanced. 

So I would 

say for the most part, no, unless you have this.

Enormous Georgian dining 

room and you have this 

huge 

Persian rug that has 

like, 

loads of 

Jen: yeah, 

this 

is the thing. 

If you really need to zone the space, if you've got a huge room and the dining room's part 

of it 

and you really need to zone the space and bring in 

some softness, then, then 

yes. Otherwise, I think just leave it. 

Kate: Yeah. 

I agree. Yeah. Well, 

I'm delighted. with My new dining 

spaces 

anyway, 

Jen: there's 

loads, We could talk about this on tableware and everything, but we'll leave that for another 

Kate: Yeah. yeah. This is just the 

technicalities of setting it up, I 

guess. Um, hopefully that gives some insight. They're my takeaways anyway from the last 

few. 

Jen: yeah. And we'll 

put loads 

of Info 

in the 

donuts

and we will see you next week. 

week. 

Kate: See 

you next week. Bye. 

Jen: Bye. Hi.

Outro

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