New Season! #47 - The Renovation Process

Welcome back to a brand new season of Rip It Up! Every renovation teaches you something, but it's only after you've lived through the dust, the delays, and the decisions - and then done it all again! - that the real lessons appear. This season, we're revisiting our biggest renovation topics, with the benefit of more hard-earned hindsight. Process, planning, lighting, kitchens, bathroom, windows, what worked, what didn't, and what we'd never do the same way again. This is what we wish we knew then.

This first episode of our new series, we're going back to the start and discussing the renovation process. What are the phases? What's the sequence of events? What's happening and what the hell is coming next?!

Follow the podcast on Instagram @ripitup_podcast_official, or follow us - Jenny is @workerscottage and Kate is @victorianrathmines

Transcript

Welcome back to a brand new season of Rip It Up. Every renovation teaches you something, but it's only after you've lived through the dust, the delays, and the decisions, and then done it again like me, that the real lessons appear. This season, we're revisiting our biggest renovation topics, not with theory, not with optimism, but with hindsight.

Process planning, lighting, kitchens, bathroom windows, what worked, what didn't, and what we'd never do the same way again. This is what we wish we knew then.

Jen: Okay. Welcome back to the podcast. Hi Kate. 

Kate: Hi Jen. Happy 

Jen: excited about this 

Kate: we haven't seen each other already lots of times, but you know. 

Jen: Happy

New Year. Um. Excited about this. Let's crack in. We're gonna keep these short, sharp, like packed full of 

tips, gems, lessons learned. Let's go. So this first episode of our new series, we're back talking about 

the phase, like the, you're very, you're back to the start. You're thinking about your renovation.

Uh, and one of our most popular episodes is one of our first, like what are the [00:01:00] phases? Like, what's happening? What's the sequence of events? Uh, so let's, 

Kate: because it's, it's 

Jen: one. 

Kate: right? 

Jen: Yeah. And you don't know, how would you 

Kate: And there's a lot of new terminology. If this is your first time around the process, the

milestones, the phases, like what the hell is coming next? When do I have to stop or order by? Anyway, we're gonna cover it all.

Jen: And that's why it's important as well, is because you do have to have decisions made at a certain time 

And there's nothing worse 

than a builder who is looking at you saying, hello, where's the bathroom stuff? Or where 

do you want your plugs and your sockets and your lighting to go? And you're like, uh, I don't know.

And it's a big decision. So. 

Kate: Yeah. 

Jen: Um, okay, so back to the very start. You're the very first phase of renovation is figuring out who are you gonna be working with, 

Kate: Mm. Yeah. Or who do you need to hire? Like what professionals do you 

Jen: do you need? to hire? 

Kate: Yeah. Do you need an architect? A lot of people ask me that actually. When I do one-to-ones, do I need an architect? It really 

depends on like what you're doing, I guess, how big the project is. Like, are you building a new 

[00:02:00] extension or are you just. 

renovating an existing structure?

Maybe you have a builder that's 

really

experienced in that. So I dunno, how did you decide you wanted.

Jen: My house was a, was a big renovation and it needed a lot

of clever design thought, not just. Drawings of something that I knew I wanted already, but 

it really needed consideration about layout, about use of space, about lighting and light coming in. Um, so it definitely needed an architect, uh, that just wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

And that's not necessarily to say that the scale is what will dictate it, but I think if there's a lot of changes being made. You're not just, you know, pushing one wall out or you're not just, um, know, you know what something's gonna look like. I think it's worth it. 

Kate: Yeah, for sure. And I also think in 

Jen: are some, 

Kate: sorry, in my scenario, the first time around in Dublin, I hired an architect, but I hired an architect because it [00:03:00] was a protected structure. We were doing an extension and he had a lot of relevant experience in those types of houses and that, those types of properties.

So that's for me, like what, what made 

my decision? I looked at his portfolio, liked the style, liked the done old houses before. Um, so 

that

made the decision for me. I 

couldn't do protected structure without an

architect

nor would I want to do,

to be honest.

Jen: It was the same for me in that hiring an architect depended on who Who, someone who had done this type 

of house before, who'd made the mistakes in all the previous houses, who had, 

you know, who knew how to work with small spaces, how to maximize it, uh, what could be done in cost,

all that kind of stuff. So that, that was really, really important for me.

Kate: And then in terms of builder, like I went with some recommendations for, from my architect that they had worked with before. And that tends to happen smoothly, I guess because they worked together before. They know how they work together. Um, so that's how I got our first. And our second builder is [00:04:00] through the architect actually. So we did go to tender in our first house. We didn't, in our second, we just negotiated a price directly 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: the tender process, that's a whole other kind of ball game like, but if you go the 

tender process, then you might need to get a QS and stuff and yeah, it depends. It depends if you wanna go out to tender and

get five prices and all that.

In today's market, it's kind of tricky. 

Jen: And it can, it obviously, it can be really worth getting a us, especially

if 

it's a really big job. You really need to keep, you know, tight control of prices. Um, sometimes they might provide like project management services that might be something that maybe your architect doesn't provide. So they definitely, uh, you know, there's plenty of cases where they're, they're well worth it and they'll save you money in the long run.

Um, I was the same finding a builder who'd worked at my architect. We didn't even go to tender. Um, and the reason is, and we always say this, like thinking about. A house build. It's, it's a working relationship. It's a team and a team that work well together is going to hit the ground running. It's gonna be much smoother, you know, they'll understand each other's language.

[00:05:00] Um, there'll be less communication, mistakes and errors and all that kind of stuff, which is, you know, why a lot of things go wrong in lots of scenarios.

Kate: I'm a strong believer that a QS will pay for themselves for the most part. If you're inexperienced in these kind of projects, you probably need a QS because you've probably heard terms then like BOQ and stuff, and you're like, what the hell is this? Like, it it, you'd be like a deer in the headlights the first time round.

And we had 

a friend of my husband's who was a QS the first time who did a bill of quantities for us, which is essentially just like a shopping list for your, for your renovation in Excel. But it's, it's, you know, it's done by rate and by unit and whatever. It's, it is a complicated doc and like if you haven't been through it before, it's hard to process all that information.

I do think a QS will save you money in the long run, but I also understand that people see it as an

additional upfront 

cost that maybe they don't have. 

Jen: Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. But I think it's worth it. 

Kate: for this section, what's your 

biggest 

mistake or kind of lesson learned for you in terms 

of like who you hired and

when?

Jen: [00:06:00] So the, probably the biggest lesson learned was that communication is key. It really is. And, uh, having somebody that you, that communicates well with you, that responds on time, that res, that you know, talks to your respect, that like, uh. That, that you can get along with on a, on a working relationship for the next, you know, what's probably going to be about at least six, potentially 12, maybe even more months, is really important.

So I would say definitely if you're going out to tender, don't just go with the cheapest quote, especially if they only come back to you with like a one pager of, of pricing. Um, communication is key. Good communication is a great 

Kate: Yeah. 

And I think you said that time and time again, like you have to be able to get on with them. That's, that's such a good bit of advice. If you just don't like someone, don't hire them. 'cause they're cheaper because you still have to work with them all the time. And it's an intense working relationship.

Right. Um, I think my biggest lesson to learn is. Is like what you said there. Don't just go with the cheapest [00:07:00] quote. I've seen such variation in quotes come back for me, like when we went to tender the first time, but also clients where like they vary by 50, 75% and like you said, like one bill of quantity could be really high or priced really high, but it's really detailed.

And another one is a one pager doc with like 10 whatever sections priced out. Very top level. But what you'll see in those kind of quotes is there could be a lot more variation as the. As the build goes on. So like I think the tighter it's priced at the outset, the more likely 

you are to stick to that price.

And also I find the cheapest tender quote to come 

back typically will be padded out by the end of the build. So don't always think they'll finish cheapest.

Jen: Yes. Totally agree with that. 

Totally agree with that. They're hidden

costs.

They might be doing it just to get the job, and you might get a really expensive quote back as well from somebody who doesn't really want the job. So that doesn't what we're not saying either. Go with the most expensive one, but yeah, don't [00:08:00] just default to the cheapest 

Kate: Yeah. 

have a bit of a sanity check of a few of them if you are going to tender. Um, and take each one with a little pinch of salt. You know, there could be a, a bit of variation in them as the, as a, you know, as the, the process progresses, we'll 

say. But, um, next days I was thinking about was pre-built decisions.

So like when you've kind of, you're design done like. One of the biggest things for me is when you start to go into that, um, demolition slash early construction phase, you really need to know where things are gonna be. And mainly you need to know where your kitchens are gonna be, where your bathrooms are gonna be, because plumbing routes have to be decided.

Um, and like m and e plans, mechanical and electrical plans, so like, you know, the last sphere, plumbing and 

stuff like that. So they're the kind of. Core structural elements as well as say things like, 

uh, your waste and drainage and all that, that have to be mapped out before a lot of the concrete comes on site.

We'll say,

Jen: because I did hear a story about that recently of somebody who had. [00:09:00] 

You know, really good architect and 

good architect plan. Uh, and then it turns out that like a small 

extension to a utility in the back of the house that they didn't need was gonna cost something like an extra 20 grand because the drainage and the plumbing would all have to be moved.

So knowing that in advance and not just necessarily saying, yeah, knock that out. Let's put that wall there, put that wall here. But really mapping out like, where's the plumbing going? Where's the drainage? Where's the electrics? Where's the, uh, where is all that? Is, is really, really important in getting.

Like preventing issues down the line and preventing unnecessary expenditure as well.

Kate: And it's interesting to kind of see what you can work with that's already there. If you're doing a renovation in terms of layouts and mapping, you know, you might keep the same roots, but also consider if you're putting in a new bathroom. Where are, you know, where, where's that plumbing layout gonna go?

'cause it has to have waste water, it has to have a toilet waste. Waste, which is quite a big pipe. They all have to go somewhere and leave that room somewhere and has to be connected into the, the main waste and drainage. So like, [00:10:00] where are those pipes gonna be? You know, you have to consider, like if you're putting a, a.

What do you call it, an en suite somewhere? There wasn't one before. Those pipes are gonna be boxed out in your living room downstairs, directly, below, or on the external wall. So 

like all those things should be kind of roughly considered like those positions. And those positions, I would say very early on are 

locked.

So see what you can work with rather than just moving everything for 

the sake of moving.

Jen: Yeah, agreed that that point about having a pipe boxed off in a room is so important because you might have, say you want to add like a, as you said, an en 

suite bathroom upstairs in a bedroom and the pipe work ends up coming down through, I dunno, your main living room even. What, whatever it might be, you might be designing that living room later on with a square shape in mind.

But actually there's gonna be a big, there's gonna be a box in the corner that's going to, you know, come into the living room that's gonna change the shape of it, that's gonna alter what kind of couch you can put in, where you can put the tv, all that kind of stuff. So [00:11:00] it sounds small, but that those are the bones of the house.

Like that is the skeleton of the house and you can't move that stuff afterwards. It's really, really difficult. So. N Like knowing, having that map early is really, really 

Kate: And also if they come in exter internally in 

in, in another room in your house, you might hear a toilet flush. As the water goes through that, but honestly, you'll hear the water go through 

that pipe, even if it's boxed out, unless it's completely insulated. You could hear that. So the last thing

Jen: could be your spare bedroom downstairs or something, and then waking somebody up. Waking up your guests every time you 

go to the toilet. 

Kate: like I won't say mistake, but lesson learned here is like those pipes have to go somewhere when you put a new bathroom in or a new kitchen position or something like that. So like really consider where. You want it where it's needed. Is there an easy route for those waste pipes to go?

Um, and same goes for like electrical. Like are there, are you rewiring completely? And does it matter? All the [00:12:00] walls could be ripped back 'cause you're doing the full gut of the house anyway. And it might make a massive difference. But if there were things already in position, say for example in old houses where you have ceiling rose and you have a penant light, do you wanna go wrecking those old ceilings and putting a load of spots in them or whatever?

So like. Really consider what you need here, 

what you need chased, what you need, dug into solid walls versus what might be partition walls or whatever. Um, but that's my 

kind of biggest lesson. See what you can live with as the current layout stands.

Jen: Yeah, and mine is, I think, really 

similar. It is 

at this point, the most important thing is to be 

thinking about how are you using the house? How does the house work day to day? What rooms are you in? What are you doing in those rooms? Um, you know, what are the considerations for each of those rooms? And at that point in planning, you're probably.

Excited by Pinterest and looking at Instagram and looking at colors and thinking about like the, you know, the lighting and the rooms and the layouts and blah, blah, blah. [00:13:00] But really strip it all back and just think about, this is the time of day that I'll be in this room, or my family will be in this room, or whatever.

This is what we're gonna be using it for, and therefore this means that, you know, that light should go there or that pipe to go here, or whatever it might be. Um, 

Kate: Yeah. 

Jen: how you're using it and how should it be built in.

Kate: Now this phase, those are the pre-built kind of decisions, but you're running directly into your first fix here, right? So we're starting to talk about first fix. First Fix is probably the most important phase in your build in terms of like, like you said, building that skeleton or that structure or that framework for that house.

This is the point of no return. Right? Once you've this decided, and this is to your point, like about the architect 

moving a utility space or whatever, maybe drainage was set then, and to actually change that is a huge deal, right? But 

consider this your point of no return, but also consider this as where you have to make a shit load of decisions.

So be ready for this 

Jen: Yeah, and it's earlier than you might think. You know, like you might not be ready to make 

those decisions because the outcome of the decision is where [00:14:00] is a plug gonna go or where is a light gonna go? And you might not have your lighting 

chosen yet. You might not 

know exactly where your furniture is gonna go yet, and therefore you might not know exactly where your, your plugs are gonna go yet.

But you need to know earlier than you think. Where it will probably go most likely. So first, first, fix means. It's relevant to plumbing and drainage, and it's relevant to electrics. So that means where are the pipes gonna go? Where are the connection points? So where's your toilet and your sinks, uh, et cetera, and your shower, where are they going to be roughly?

It doesn't have to be down to the millimeter, but it needs to be pretty close. And then where are your electrics going to go? Where roughly do you think your plug sockets are likely to be? Where roughly do you think your switches and your light, your wiring for the lights are going to be?

Kate: Yeah, and this is something that like you have to do the sanity check on, right? You like, you can't leave this up. A hundred percent to your builder because you need to know the positions 

of your toilets, your 

taps, if they're wall taps versus deck taps that sit in [00:15:00] your basins because they'll have to chase the walls for 

those kind of things.

Your under floor heating system, that it goes back to your boiler and those positions, you know? So all that stuff 

Jen: that it doesn't run under your appliances in your 

Kate: Exactly. And especially if you're pouring concrete, like a concrete slab like I was this time. There is no going back once that concrete goes down. So like if those pipes aren't there, it's a big, big upset, you know?

And we missed one thing where we asked for a, a hot return, which is kind of like a circulation pump that runs around your house, that keeps hot water to all the taps at certain times of the day when you need it. So you're not waiting for the hot water to heat up for ages that wasn't put in before we poured our concrete.

So the fix for that afterwards was massive. We had to dig a trench, the whole perimeter of the house and do a

lagged pipe. So like. Those few things that you've kind of specified, positions for things, types of 

taps, heights of things, like you need to do that sanity check at this stage. And it feels like a lot and it is a lot, but once 

Jen: it is a lot. It's a lot of decisions, 

Kate: yeah, but this first fix is so [00:16:00] critical.

Like it's so critical to know where your lights are going, where your taps are, where your toilets are, like, and really map those out. And you 

can breathe a little bit after this I think. 'cause everything else is somewhat kind of tweakable a little bit after this. 

Jen: If you do. it right.

Kate: you do. All right. 

Exactly. That's my biggest mistake.

Our biggest mistake 

was we missed a serious pipe that should have gone in before our

concrete slab was done.

Jen: Oh

Kate: What was your lesson? Any mistakes or lessons learned in your first fix? 

Jen: to be honest, no, it actually went well. Uh, we had it planned out really well. And also my house is very small, so the, the amount of decisions to be made are, are, are pretty 

small. Um. I think a lesson learned was that I just put sockets everywhere. If I thought I might even potentially want to plug 

Kate: Sockets. 

Jen: in, it went, 

Kate: Now, the, the only thing I 

Jen: go for it. 

Kate: sockets and switches. If you wanna buy fancy brass ones, they're expensive. So every socket and switch you put in, and trust me, you're up in the hundreds. If you're doing a three or four bed [00:17:00] house, by the time you add in all your sockets, all your switches, you know, across all the rooms.

It's expensive. 'cause those can be up at 80, a hundred quid a set. If you're buying fancy ones, you know, maybe even more if you're going for really fancy ones. But like they add up. And then when you're buying those, you have to obviously go with a shopping list of ones. You want your electrician, and maybe 

they'll source them, but you know, you're kind of putting in sockets willy-nilly, but you're like, oh, that's a hundred quid, that's a hundred quid.

That's a hundred quid like, and then 

the price to fit them is per unit with the

Jen: Yeah, yeah.

Kate: in saying that, you'll probably never regret putting in an extra

Jen: You'll never regret it. you'll never regret it. Be aware of the cost, 

Kate: and I, and the ones that are hidden, you can put in basic plastic 

ones, right. And the ones that are on show, you might spring for the more expensive ones, but 

like, yeah, it's just, it's definitely a lesson learned.

You'll regret 

not putting in a socket if you have to trail a cable across your floor, you know?

Jen: Yeah. I just think, again, for this phase, even for First fix, you're, you really, you have to start marrying now how you're using the house and what you want it to look like, because you do need to start thinking about, you don't have

to choose your lighting, but you need to know roughly, you know, [00:18:00] are you gonna have wall lights there?

Of course you will. Uh, you're not gonna have spotlight, 

Kate: And for that fir for, yeah, for that first fix. Although you don't have to select your finishes yet for the house, some valves and things like that for say, uh, bathrooms, you know, shower valves, stuff like that, or where your shower head is going, or radiators, you kind of will need to know what ones you're picking because the radiator pipe spacing will be a certain size, you know, so you need to know what radiator is going to go there, even though it doesn't have to be on site yet.

Or for your showers, you might need the valve and the wall, but you might need the actual face plate and all the 

fancy stuff yet. So sometimes you have to have the 

stuff picked, but maybe not installed. So yeah, it is, it is a 

heavy section of the renovation process,

I suppose, and a lot 

of decisions to be made.

Jen: We had a top tip for this one actually. Um, that's we're thinking about at this stage that was really popular. Um, which is if when you're designing your shower to put the controls of your shower. Uh, you know, at the entrance of the shower [00:19:00] and not necessarily under the shower head so that you don't have to be standing under the shower to turn it on.

Um, and that's something you can think about at, uh, at first 

Kate: Yeah. 

If you have the space for it.

So next phase, second fix. This is where it 

kind of gets fun, right? You

love this when they start plastering and 

Jen: the, road here. Rubber hits the road. I love plastering. I love it. It's magic. 

Kate: bigger, bigger fixings and finishes start to go in. Um, like these are really tweaks and not redesigns and re layout.

You know, not relaying out things. Um, but 

yeah, it's a tricky one to schedule because everyone wants to go last. Like everyone that's fitting, like all your flooring, people will be like, we should be last, we should be last. The painters are like, we should be last. Everyone wants to go last because then their shit isn't ruined throughout the 

rest of the 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: So it's a tricky one to, to manage and schedule, especially if you're going 

kind of direct to some suppliers rather

than your contractor or whatever.

But this is, yeah. You might

start to kind of second guess your [00:20:00] decisions here with trust the process. I suppose

Jen: and it's frustrating. It's interesting to think about, the sequencing is important here because if you are not going 

through a main contractor and You are 

organizing those people to come in, you do have to be careful about who comes in when, because you don't want your. 

Uh, kitchen installers to ruin your paint.

They won't. Good ones won't. But you know, you need to think about what, what's the impact of each one coming in and what's the, um, what's the best sequencing, like what will end up in the best finish? 

Kate: Yeah. Like look. It's hard to get it all right, like it's so hard to get everything in the order. Perfect. Everyone, like I said, wants to go last 'cause their thing will get destroyed. But just as a, a watch out, we put in our beautiful wood floor, which is probably one of the more expensive finishes we put in the house.

Earlier than we probably should have. And I have a few marks from a scaffold that also went up for later work, you know, so like, or my fireplace was destroyed and then the, the slate heart was dinged. So like it'll never be perfect, [00:21:00] but just keep whatever finished items you can away from a site as long as you possibly can.

You know that, that would be my advice for this phase, I would say. 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah, totally. 

Kate: Then I guess in parallel with like fa, these phases, like first, six, second fix, you just have to keep 'em back, back of your mind. Like when are those things happening and what are the lead times for the things you're 

ordering? 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: you may need to make those decisions, but you also need to order the things for those.

Although say your builder says, I need my, I need the valves here for the showers, you know, and all the, the plumbing fixings for first fix by March 10th, you're like, okay. Work backwards from March 10th. Your valves could be three or four weeks lead time. 

So like you have to order them a good bit before that to make sure you have them.

Don't maybe send everything to site because some stuff 

could get damaged. I got them all delivered to my house and then brought 

down just the valves and then labeled all the boxes separately for later. But 

Jen: Labeling everything is is genius. 'cause [00:22:00] people don't read 

Kate: it's genius until

like some people just dump them all out of it into a big bath 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: on site, you know, like. 

Jen: It's the best you can do. 

Kate: Yeah, it is. It is. But label everything. Label everything. And even when it comes to fitting this stuff, mark the walls or the big permanent marker or something, you know, like just say, this is where the valve goes, this is where the tap goes. Or if you have a printout for a specific, um, specific requests or layouts or something that's slightly off 

standards, stick it to the door of that room or stick it to the wall of that room so they can't miss 

it.

'cause if it's in a dock somewhere 

Jen: the 

Kate: They're, just not gonna see it. That's my experience.

Jen: Totally, absolutely. Yeah. 'cause they're too busy. They're, you know, they're building your house. They're not necessarily stopping every two minutes to check like, what's on the thing. So that's an important one. And not, you know, not every builder's gonna give you. Most builders won't give you like a schedule in advance of when you need to have those decisions made.

So go to them and ask, when do you need to have, when do, when do you expect the kitchen needs to be here? By when do you expect the windows and doors need to be here? By [00:23:00] when do you expect the flooring, when do you expect the. Your bathrooms, your tiles, your san wear, um, furniture is one that often tricks people because especially if you're getting something made, uh, or you know, you want a customized couch or something like that, you could be looking at weeks and if it's, if it's coming up to Christmas, you're looking at a, a lot of weeks 'cause it's really, really busy.

So, um, 

Kate: order ahead and some places will hold them for you maybe for a couple of weeks. It's rather 

Jen: yeah, 

Kate: better 

having

them sit there waiting for you to get them delivered rather than looking for them and

then having notice it. But don't send them

Jen: know that those things. Yeah, that's very true as well. Actually, it could be damaged,

But know that those things tend to have a long lead time 

and be ready 

for that. Know that some of those decisions might have to 

come earlier and just, there's just nothing worse, as I said at the start than like.

You're like a deer in the headlights where your builder's, like, where are the tiles? You're like, what tiles? And like picking tiles is hard. Could take you three weekends to 

Kate: And and custom 

tiles or custom finishes could have very long lead time. The biggest [00:24:00] lead time items for me, kitchen, obviously, if you're doing a custom 

kitchen, you could be talking

12, 16 weeks, windows and doors. A long lead time as well could be eight, 10 weeks, uh, could be even longer. Yeah, if you're doing restoration windows like I was, you have to integrate that with everything else and scheduling, 

so that has to be done kind of right.

Flooring thickness decision is 

something that actually needs to be known really early if you're 

pouring concrete, because the levels have to be

right, so you need to know what floor you're 

picking. Is it 18 mill or is it 20 mill or whatever. So if they are

Jen: if you have, like 

Kate: joists at they're level.

Jen: so if you have, like I do, I have LVT throughout

the ground floor of my house, and then I have tiles in my downstairs bathroom and the thickness. Of the, the tile is really, really thick. It's like a big cement terrazzo tile. Um, and so that means that it's much, you know, it's much thicker than the LVT flooring.

That means that when they're pouring it, they have to allow for that high difference. So, um, that decision needs to be made early, even if you haven't necessarily ordered it. You do need to know what the thickness is, [00:25:00] 'cause those millimeters make a big difference.

Kate: Yeah. And the same when we poured a new concrete slab here and we were laying our wood floor. They needed it like, I mean, super, super, super flat. Like there couldn't have 

been more than a few millimeters front to back room, otherwise the floor that we picked wouldn't have really fit 'cause it was kind of an individual piece, parquet, and there would've been too much play.

And, uh, so they had to grind the concrete flat. Now, when I say there's a messy job, like. 

It. This is a messy job. Like, so just knowing the scheduling of that and knowing how specific your finishes are to particular needs and levels and whatever, as early as you can kind of know that stuff, the better. So 

like have things flagged, or if you really are like decision fatigued and you don't wanna pick something straight 

away, pick a standard thickness for something. Now you've limited your shopping options, but at least you've made a decision that it's gonna be an 18 mill 

Jen: reduced your decisions. 

Kate: And say, I have, I have to pick a floor. And you go into flooring places you say, but it has to be 18 mil, that's all. [00:26:00] 

Jen: Yeah, 

Kate: Um, yeah. But that's my biggest mistake or lesson learned. The scheduling in this part and just knowing your long lead times and don't 

be waiting, looking for stuff.

Um, make sure it's ready to be delivered when they need it. 

Jen: yeah.

Kate: Yeah. And the key message here, if someone has to install it, you should be thinking about it really early. 

Jen: I think think about 

like most things are gonna take 

six weeks. I think that's a good rule of thumb. Many things will take longer. Your kitchen will probably take 

longer, but most things will take at least six weeks. So just be prepared for that.

Kate: Yeah,

yeah, They're the kind of, and then you're into the fun 

stuff, the finishing and the painting, whatever, and that's a whole other, you know, discussion. But like, I think the key thing 

Jen: are things that can at least be changed. You know, if something goes wrong, if you don't like the color, 

yes, it's expensive, But uh, 

these things can be, can be changed. It can 

all be fixed. 

Kate: my, my takeaways would be like, you know, know the phases, know the drop dead dates from your 

contractor when [00:27:00] specific finishes and things need to be decided or on site. And then make your 

decisions as early as you possibly can to reduce your stress later. Yeah, that's Mine 

Jen: Mine would be try to make your decisions 

together as a whole. So 

don't kind of go piecemeal room by room or you know, item by item. Like try to as much as you can, again, plan in advance, keep track of what you have decided, like what do your switches look like, what does your flooring look like? Have it all, like all maybe all your samples together or your mood board or whatever it might be, and try to make the decisions.

Together so it's cohesive and you're not doing things kind of piecemeal. So it looks a bit hodgepodge. Just try to have it have, have it planned out as much as you possibly can.

Kate: Yeah.

and look, those first fix phases are overwhelming for everyone. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: You'll probably have a cry at some stage. You know, [00:28:00] you'll feel overwhelmed. There's a lot 

coming at you at once. Um, but the more kind of prepared you can be and the more things you can have 

decided

early, the better.

Jen: Yeah. Yeah. 

Kate: But yeah, that's 

mine. So we're gonna do this for everything. We're gonna do this for all our key topics.

Jen: So next week we're talking about planning,

Kate: Yeah, I think the planning process,

Jen: need planning? What are the things you 

can do to make planning as smooth as possible? 

Kate: I definitely have a few lessons 

learned in planning anyway.

Jen: It's, 

Kate: Yeah, I, 

Jen: it's a tough one. in this country. 

Kate: Yeah. it's a tough

Jen: see you next week. 

Kate: Thanks. Bye. 

Jen: Bye.