#51 - Kitchen Layouts Explained - Flow, Storage & Planning Decisions (Part 1)

Before you choose cabinet colours, you need to lock down layout, flow, storage, and how the room actually works day to day. In this episode we break down the early decisions that will make your kitchen renovation successful.

What we cover

• Why kitchens are usually the first major design decision in a renovation
• The layout choices that affect plumbing, electrics and budget
• Why the classic “kitchen triangle” is outdated
• Designing kitchens in practical zones: storage, prep, cooking and cleaning
• Storage strategies that make kitchens easier to live with
• Floor-to-ceiling units, drawers vs cupboards and corner solutions
• Planning sockets, appliances and everyday countertop clutter

We also share the biggest kitchen regrets - from narrow islands to nowhere to hide clutter.

This is part 1 of a two-part kitchen episode - in the next episode we’ll cover appliances, materials and kitchen lighting.

Follow the podcast on Instagram @ripitup_podcast_official, or follow us - Jenny is @workerscottage and Kate is @victorianrathmines

Transcript

Welcome back to a brand new season of Rip It Up. Every renovation teaches you something, but it's only after you've lived through the dust, the delays, and the decisions, and then done it again like me, that the real lessons appear. This season, we're revisiting our biggest renovation topics, not with theory, not with optimism, but with hindsight.

Process planning, lighting, kitchens, bathroom windows, what worked, what didn't, and what we'd never do the same way again. This is what we wish we knew then. Welcome back to the podcast. Hi Kate. 

Kate: Hi Jen. 

Jen: Um, we are 

onto the next of our new 

series, which is Kitchens our favorite topic, and Very timely because Your kitchen is currently on the cover of the current edition of 

House and Home 

Magazine. Looking stunned, 

Kate: It's 

amazing. Yeah, they

took like, they took great photos and the styling and everything. On the day was my house will probably never look like that again, but you know, it was lovely down like that 

for the day. 

Jen: I know the feeling when it's always clean, but your 

house always do, does look amazing. But 

yeah, I

love, there's [00:01:00] nothing better than like cleaned and styled. I'm like, everybody out for three days. 

Kate: Can I just give away my 

husband and my children now for a while and keep this, 

but yeah, they did a lovely job and Elise, that 

photographer, she's just unreal. She's so 

good. Like some of her photos are just amazing. But yeah, I feel a bit smoke 'cause I do love my kitchen this time and I don't have very many regrets, 

which is good. 

Jen: Okay, so let's 

get

into it

because that is what we want to talk about. So we love kitchens. Kitchens are our favorite part of any renovation and getting your kitchen right. Just makes your life better, doesn't 

it? Um, so if you're listening so far, our last two episodes we were talking about mechanical and electrical plans, and obviously your kitchen is a big component to this, so we'll talk about a little bit of that. Um, and then just overall, like layout, storage, how you use it. There's a few kind of outdated concepts, um, that we'll get back to. We probably won't get to like countertops and like specifics on appliances today. We might leave that for another episode 

that's a little bit 

later down the line. Anyway, when you're kind of going through [00:02:00] your renovation, um. 

But yeah, 

overall, um, how you do the layout, 

the

flow, like how you kind of position

things. Um, maybe talk us through like how you did that 

this time around. 

Kate: Yeah, versus last time 

I probably did give it a lot more thought and I think maybe our, our life changed a little bit after we planned our last one and that like, we didn't have kids when we planned it, and then we had kids that would like. I dunno. There's a few different differences In my old kitchen, my new kitchen, the biggest one for me is having a clear island this time.

And I know it's a 

contentious 

Jen: And so last time you had 

your ho on your island, wasn't it? 

Okay. And you 

Kate: had our ho in our island And we had an, I would say

a narrow long island, which 

Jen: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: for 

me is a mistake. It's not conducive to good conversation. Like if there's a group view, 'cause you're in a line like 

an interview. I find it's not deep enough to have a ho on it. 

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Kate: Your hob is on the island, you tend to have a lot of other stuff around it and it's just a bit messy. There's a bit of splash, whatever. [00:03:00] It's just harder 

to keep the place tidy and it's, I don't know, this time we kind of went a bit smaller square. That's just the shape would allow for in our space or whatever.

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: on the at 90 degrees

to the way we had it last time, I'm clear nothing on it. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: And we've kind of, you know, made it that we can put stools around the end of it as opposed 

to all 

on 

one side. 

Jen: Because you've got a curve on one end, which is 

so much nicer to sit around. Yeah, 

Kate: It's so much nicer to sit around and I just, I love sitting around it. I love the shape 

Because it feels like a table and it also feels like a table 'cause there's no hobb in it. 

Right. So I don't feel like a Te Yaki chef or something, you know? so I just think I, for me, I feel like I prep more than I'm standing at a hobb. 

Jen: totally. Okay. I was just thinking that as you were talking, 'cause I think there is this notion. Which is probably a very reasonable thing to think that if you are cooking and you have people over it, that you're gonna be standing at the HA most of the time. And so putting the HA in the island is the most social positioning for it.[00:04:00] 

And I would've thought that, and I think it makes sense to think that, but it's not really, it's not

actually the case. Like you're mostly chopping and prepping and moving things around, and then you go over for a bit of a stir every now and then, but

Kate: Unless you're making a rosado 

or something, 

Jen: yeah. Yeah. You're not standing at the

hub that much. 

Kate: Like there's not that

much stuff. You're standing at the ho, stirring, turning, whatever. So I feel like, yeah, prep, you're facing everyone. You can kind of talk while you're chopping. It's 

not as loud having the extractor.

Stop against the wall and away from everyone as opposed to on the island, sink on the island. I know we spoke about this before. Absolutely not for 

Jen: yeah, yeah. it's so messy. 

Kate: whose sink is ever 

clear, like fair play if it is, 

but it's, it's hard to keep it clear. Like there's always a few bits around it, especially if your kids 

always full of some plastic shi and bowls 

and whatever. So like, I 

think a clear island, if you have the space, if you don't have the 

space 

a ho on it would allow enough 

depth. 

So you're not splashing people and allow a shape of an island that's a bit more conducive to like sitting around in a semicircle or

[00:05:00] whatever, or opposite each 

other. Not in a big, long line.

I know the look people want to, when the stools all line up and it looks very sharp, 

but it just doesn't

really function. It 

Jen: It's fine for two people, I think, sitting side by side, maybe having a bit of breakfast or whatever, or like a few snacks. But once you have more than two people, then it's really uncomfortable to just sit in a line, especially for the person in the middle. It's just a horrible thing. It's not nice. So yeah, that definitely something that curves around the end of it's so much nicer.

Um. 

Kate: I love that. That was the biggest, I would say, layout change I've made this time. 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah. And also, like we talked about this, I think before, I don't remember if it was on this podcast or just in a, 

uh, maybe it was on the radio or something, but the old concept of the kitchen triangle is kind of gone. And like, it's not, it's not a bad place to start because having somewhere 

to start in terms of how you use the space is No, bad thing.

But it's probably just not really necessary anymore. We don't really live like that 

and cook like That anymore. Um. So I think instead, like we always say [00:06:00] this, like really just thinking about how you specifically, you, yourself, whoever you are, whoever, when you're listening, like really thinking about do you cook mostly on the hob or do you use the oven or do you only use the oven every Sunday, you know, for a Sunday roast or not even then.

Um, do you like, are you in and outta the dishwasher constantly? Like would it make sense to put the dishwasher at a bit of a height? Is it difficult to get stuff in and outta that dishwasher, um, is the fridge. I always think this is a really important one. The fridge needs to be at an easy to access.

Point in your kitchen because people, you and other people are gonna be going in and outta that fridge constantly just getting glass of water, drink whatever, snack. And so you don't wanna have to walk into the hardest part of 

the kitchen to access that fridge. Like that 

needs to be at an easy point.

That's really 

important. 

Um, 

Kate: that are potentially cooking or handling hot stuff or whatever, you know, a clear path to that 

fridge. for sure. 

Jen: Clear path to the fridge. Number one, really 

important. Um, but yeah, how you use it 

yourself, I think is, is really, is really, really important. Um, and then I think a place to have appliances is becoming increasingly important [00:07:00] because maybe back in the day we had a kettle and a toaster.

Now we have 

Kettle Toaster coffee grinder, air fryer, uh, what am I missing? Loads a million different things 

Kate: A 

million different one. Rice cooker toast, a sandwich maker, like stand mixer. 

Jen: Phyto Mix 

Kate: a million different like 

blender. Uh, like there is a million different ones. And I think that old 

triangle, it works to an extent, but like our appliances aren't 

even laid out like that anymore. I think. You know, they used to be like 

the hobb slash oven kind of range all in one kind of.

When it was that concept, I think, and then, you know, your, your water and then 

your, your fridge. And yes, it is, it is easy that you're not walking loads of distance between them. But I think how we use those now is very different. Like, I think people don't use their oven at the same time as the hub all the time.

People sometimes don't use their oven for weeks on end and maybe use air fryer that's tucked into a corner somewhere, or uh, like they might just use the ho day to day and then the microwave a lot of the time or whatever. So like, I think. Don't be bogged down with that triangle idea. I think it's [00:08:00] great that you're not traipsing across the

whole kitchen.

You know, more than three or four steps if 

it's something you're 

accessing all the 

time. But like other than 

that, I think

it's 

fine.

Jen: Yeah, couldn't agree with you more. Um, I do think that like, the position of, of what's where is helpful? 'cause like if, if you really don't use the, the oven that often, like you might not necessarily need a full size oven. Maybe you're looking at a combi oven or at least a combi oven in like the main part of your kitchen.

And maybe if you have a big one, the oven, the main oven is tucked away somewhere else in a, you know, less utilized place. Like you, you might not necessarily need it like in the center of your, of your kitchen if you don't use it that, often. Um, the, dishwasher I just mentioned. But you can, you know, if you find bending over and emptying or unloading the dishwasher is a strain on your back or you're doing it constantly and it's just really annoying.

You can have your dishwasher raised up at a height that could be, you know, one of your, in one of your tall units. Like I really think that makes such a, 

a huge difference. Um, one thing I love is having dishwasher bin sink all within reach. 

When you're in one [00:09:00] standing position, you have to have that. 

Kate: Scrape the plates. Rinse the plates potentially if you need to, and then straight into the dishwasher. Like I just think that run is just, it works. It's foolproof. I did it last time. I did it this time. Wouldn't change from 

it again, I don't think. 

Jen: That's what you're 

doing daily. So that's a really important thing to, have. I think 

Um, another one to think about, and we're not gonna go deep into appliances, but uh, early at this stage, right, when you're planning your kitchen layout and you've done your, you know, you're doing your m and e plan is you need to know about ventilation.

So you need to think about what kind of ho are you gonna have and what does that mean for extraction? So. We have gone through all sorts of extraction in our various houses. We've had overhead. We don't like that. I don't 

like anything overhead, but that's a separate issue. 

Kate: sorry. Who likes cleaning the greasy underside of a hood, like 

Jen: and just too much vapor just to like, there's such a huge distance between your ho 

and the overhead extractor. It just doesn't remove 

enough of that vapor for me. Do you 

know? 

Kate: messy And it's just greasy And like we, had, a twin fan One before, So people are like, oh, some of them are really [00:10:00] good. I still didn't 

find it as good as the downdraft 

to be honest. I just think, you know, the suction from the downdraft close to where you're cooking 

close to that source of steam or smoke or whatever, like it's, I, I personally think it's way more 

Jen: Oh, a hundred percent. 

Kate: And steam.

Jen: And then, so what I have, we, so we've had, we both had downdraft, we both 

had 

different types of downdraft. Now we have the same one.

But what you can do if you're getting 

a downdraft extractor, right, there's two ways of doing a ventilation. One is no ventilation at all. So it's a fully self-contained unit, um, that has this, uh, charcoal filter in it. And you need to replace that filter about once a year. It's about a hundred euro. Um, depending on what kind of harbor model you have. Um, but what I love about that, that one really works for me. I never like, I dunno if you've ever smelled any kitchen smells coming into my house and I, you know, I like fish a lot.

Like there's, you know, it should like it. I put it to the 

test. Um. But what I love about that fully self-contained one is that you can take that [00:11:00] entire mechanism out of the ho and put it into the dishwasher. 

And so all that, like grease and anything that normally flows through a duct of a fan, 

extractor

fan is just washed away like whenever you need to.

So for cleanliness, 

that's my preference, but you can also

have ab ducted externally

as well. 

Kate: I docked externally. In my last house I didn't this time, so we were digging up the floors. So we had the

opportunity to.

kind of do big duct out. Um. I thought it was the better option, but it's actually louder, I think, 'cause the sound kind of echoes through that chamber, that duct. We also had leakage back in from outside when it wasn't properly closed in and kind 

of, um, 

shielded off 

outside. 

Jen: Oh, I never thought of that. 'cause it would, yeah. Yeah, 

Kate: and like depending on the bends or the turns 

or the root out, I've heard a lot of people say it's

very drafty.

Jen: Oh God. God. 

I never even thought of, 

Kate: yeah, so like you can get

drafts back 

depending on the direction of the 

ducting and stuff. So it's not that it's negative, but it just has to be given some [00:12:00] considerations, 

I 

suppose.

And having switched to the recirculating like you have now this 

time 

I can't see a negative besides having to change the filter. Like I find it a bit quieter probably than the 

ducted one. And I there's obviously 

no drafts or whatever 'cause it's fully enclosed. So for 

Jen: a newer model than me. So I'd say you, as my mine is, is definitely noisy. like, you definitely have to like turn up the TV if you're cooking at the same time kind of thing. 

Kate: Yeah, so I had the 

Jen: I'd say your one's a bit quieter. 

Kate: think besides the, the the ducting or not, but like, I think it was the pure O or something. So this time we went with the X pure, I think it's called. And the 

reason we went for that 

is the, the induction zones are 

usually 

like, I dunno, a little 

ring of 20, 25 centimeters, something like that. Whereas the X pure has the whole right hand side is an induction 

Jen: Mm. Wow. 

Kate: whole griddle pan 

down. So 

that's kind of why we did it. So it's like you could use huge saute pans and 

it'll still hit the induction. And um, we also went for the matte finish. 

So 

the matte finish, uh, 

is, [00:13:00] doesn't scratch. 

Whereas last time 

I 

Jen: God. Yeah. Mine is a bit scratched now. It's nothing that annoys me. It's not scratch enough to annoy me, and I've had it Like over five years, so it's grand, but I, yeah, no, scratches would be 

amazing. 

Kate: Yeah, so that's my thoughts. I like, I mean, obviously there's some beautiful ranges, 

you know, 

your 

corn, whatever kind of cornew and lacan and all those beautiful colorful ranges. 

Like it's different ballgame where you just have to kind of consider that in the layer of your kitchen and how 

much space it takes up. And then 

the extractor overhead and all that kind of jazz.

And whether you go induction or gas, and I 

know the romance around gas and 

stuff, 

Jen: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: realistically, like induction 

works better than gas. I think 

Jen: Well, there's gonna be someone listening who's gonna be screaming at us being like 

no, you can never beat a spider burner. And if that's how you feel, you're, you should go for it. Like you, you know, it's 

like preference matters. 

Kate: burner like every time I cook, like it's just not happening, like, 

Jen: we had like, I will speak to a range. 'cause in our family home at home, we had for forever 

an agate that has lasted. I I think these things [00:14:00] are bombproof, like they've just, it just lasted forever. and I think. There. That's kind of what I learned to like cook on and bake. And it's, it's very different because it's not precise.

You kind of have to get to know, your range and you have to understand it's mood 

and, you know, know, like there's obviously no fan in older aga, like they don't cir, the air doesn't circulate. So you need to know where like the hot zones are and the cold zones are. And also like we really leaned into it as the center of the household did our heating, um, and everything like that.

So. It's, you're leaning into a different lifestyle there and there's nothing better or worse. You just have to under like, decide. Are you the kind of per, like, I think if you're home a lot and if you've got a lot of kind of slow cook meals on the go, um, you know, kind of always something in the oven type of a person, then that could really work for you.

And if you do have gas, like it is a 

pretty efficient way to, to heat your home. Um, and that can 

be nice, but it's not something that I would go 

for because you like the look of

it And I know that you 

can get

electric kind of [00:15:00] ranges, and I know you can get induction ones 

and all that kind of stuff, but I just think they're two very,

very different things.

Kate: Okay. I think we should leave probably cooking in Hobbs for now 'cause we've been talking 

Jen: Yeah. We're gonna go deep. We're 

Kate: my, like, I'm probably not gonna change ever from induction. Induction is as good as the pots you use though. I will say that 

Jen: Yeah. Fair. 

Kate: It's usually because they have shit pots, 

pin pots.

Um, but besides

going back to that kind of triangle, right, so your sink, your, your dishwasher and your heat or whatever, um. I also think the dishwasher one, the layout's really important. Like what's beside it, and this was savvy that put me onto this the last time, is big deep 

drawers close to your 

Jen: Oh God. Yeah, 

Kate: a ball your plates and put 'em into drawers.

Like I think just drawers.

in general in a kitchen are 

just better. Like they're better. You've 

nothing thrown into the back that it's getting lost or you 

know, dirtier spilled 

or whatever. So 

like, I 

just

Jen: Under the counter

you have to have drawers. 

Yeah. 

definitely. And I have the same thing and like for 90% of my dishwasher, when I [00:16:00] empty it, I don't have to move a step. Like I'm literally just standing in the same place and like lifting plates, cups, cutlery, you know, that kind of utensils from one place to another, and it's so handy.

Kate: yeah. And when you're thinking about your drawers and your layout, think about what you're using when you're standing in that space. You know, like your plates want to be kind of close-ish to where you're gonna be dining. 

Over that you have your cutlery because you're gonna access two of those at the same time.

Then your pots and your larger cooking utensils might be directly under your hub or alongside it if you have a range or something like that. So just make sure everything is kind of the one step or you know, turn around and it's right there. Your chopping board, same kind of thing. Your chopping knives, all that loose, everything is kind of easy reach. There's no point having a load of like kids' lunchboxes under your ho. 'cause they're not things you're gonna use at the same 

time. So like, just plan it out like that and do that walkthrough. Pretend you're cooking, what do I need now? 

Pretend you know, I need my 

Jen: Making the lunches, making a cup of tea, like all that kind of stuff. Unloading the dishwasher, doing a big meal. like how, yeah, that's a really good point, I [00:17:00] think. 

Kate: yeah, 

and 

I think sink, sink layouts then. 

I'm a fan of a small kitchen sink, like I just don't think you need huge, huge, ones unless you're someone soaking massive 

trays and stuff like that. I'm usually fine with the standard 60 square one.

Jen: Yeah, the only thing that doesn't fit into my sink is a big, is a mig oven tray. So that's the only time, like if I've ever done a big, deep clean on the oven, I've had to take them into the bath, which worked fine and I wouldn't get a bigger sink just to accommodate that. Like I don't need to do that that often.

Um.

Kate: Wouldn't just throw

'em into the dishwasher, 

you know?

Jen: They my, so I have a narrower

Kate: Oh, you have the 45 

Jen: I have the 45 

centimeter dishwasher, which for 99% of my day is perfect, but the one time, 

um, they don't all fit in. yeah, 

Kate: Yeah, Um, yeah, but like since. Like, do whatever you think you'll use the most, but just don't put it on your island 'cause it's the messy as hell

Jen: yeah. 

Kate: and around the tap gets messy and you've hand soap [00:18:00] there and you've scrubbing brushes, which look rotten and like, I just, it, it's not for your island,

in my opinion. Um, and then quicker tap, that's something I put in this time, it didn't have it last time, but it's a quicker with sparkling water all day long. I put it in again, not bothered by the boiling water, if 

Jen: no, it doesn't do it for me. It's not hot enough. 

Kate: induction is so fast on a ho. 

It doesn't really save you a massive amount of time, in my opinion, but 

I do like sparkling water 

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: the boiling water is kind of handy 

when I'm cleaning.

I turn on the boiling water and a little bit of the cold water 

at the same time, so I have kind of hot water cleaning, which is very handy and I use that a lot. But quicker, I know the decision to be made around your sink 

area. 

Um, 

Jen: something like if you drink loads of tea and you want like tea on demand, then I think it's really handy. And if not, I don't know if you need it.

Kate: And

if you're a teeth snob, you probably won't like the teeth from Cooper, to be honest.

Jen: Probably not. I don't.

Kate: Just not

Jen: Yeah. 

Kate: hot. It's okay. It's fine.

Jen: And then the [00:19:00] other thing to think about is 

storage, right? So I think like a lot of times you go into a kitchen place And they're like, brilliant, and they shove as many cabinets as possible into the space available, 

which like makes sense, why wouldn't they? But 

I think you, as the person living in the house, you just really need to think about like how 

much stuff do you actually have, or will you actually 

have?

And how much storage do you really need? And what do you need? Need to be able to access? And my entire point here. 

Is that, I don't think you need overhead cabinets. I just don't know if anybody 

ever needs overhead cabinets. 

Kate: I'm a little like 

mixed on that. Yeah. But I also think you absolutely shouldn't do an open shelf unless you're someone who's gonna style an 

open shelf. 

Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it gets dusty. It gets dusty, so 

maybe 

Kate: it does. And I think like you have to think if you're putting an open shelf in what's going on that shelf. 

And it better not be lunchboxes and random plates and cups and stuff. Do you 

know 

Jen: yeah. 

Kate: number One, dad cups, like it has to look nice. It's an open shelf. 

It's a display shelf as such in your kitchen. 

So like

Jen: There [00:20:00] are like 

spaces where you just, you're gonna have to put them in if you've got a really tiny kitchen, little galley kitchen, something like that, obviously of course you're gonna have to put them in there and like you can think then about like 

what you know, can you do different things to balance out the color, for example, so it doesn't feel kind of too hemmed in or overwhelming.

Is there even an option for like sliding doors overhead? I just don't like, what I really don't like 

about overhead cabinets is. One, just visually, they really hand the space in. They make it feel a lot smaller. And two, I just hate an open door in an overhead cabinet. It really just messes me up. I just don't like it.

I feel like you're always like banging 

into it and it's just hard to like open and close 

things 

and

yeah. 

So 

Kate: they're like a necessary evil in some kitchens, but I understand. One thing I did. Do in this

house because just the layout

of our kitchen, we have kind of, uh, two runs, what do you call that? It's an L-shaped kind 

of,

Jen: I guess it, 

is. No, it's like a, it's like a, T shape, almost 

Kate: Um, so like we have two perpendicular runs of units. A tall bank with this might open my fridge and then a low bank with the shelf over it. which is like sink [00:21:00] bin, dishwasher, all that kind of jazz. And then in the corner I was like, well, we built that in with all the unit and we didn't, and we just did shelves in there. But I call it my heidi corner 'cause everything's just fucking pushed in there and you can't see it. Because it's hidden behind the fridge. So like if I'm back in my living space or at my island, I can't see what's in that messy corner and it's my blender and it's my toaster and it's my air fryer, and it's

all this shit that I cook with that I don't want on display.

And then I just leave my shelf with the nice 

little bits. So like, I think a Heidi corner is revolutionary for me.

Jen: Absolutely. The other thing you can put in, so that works great if you have a Heidi 

Corner available to you. That's not within your visual eye line of where you're sitting. If you don't, you can put 

in. Either pocket doors or an appliance garage. So this is just kind of a door that will like either roll up or slide up or push back into itself or something like that.

And so your countertop runs into that space and you should have a load of plugs in there. And that's where your, you know, as you said, like your kettle, your appliances, whatever. Um. But then you can close it off [00:22:00] whenever you need to. So like, you have to be so realistic as well. Every single thing you're planning, 

like we always say this, you're kind, people tend to plan for this like, idealized lifestyle that they're gonna live.

And they're like, oh, I, I'm never gonna have pots 

and pans out in the 

can. Of course you are like, 

you're just, mess just happens. So you just have to plan for where is the mess 

gonna be and then 

how can you hide

that to make your 

life as enjoyable as 

possible.

Kate: I agree. Another little shelf kind of cabinet idea 

for the one above your oven maybe is vertical slots for your 

trays 

Jen: Oh 

yeah, I don't have that and I really wish I did. 

Kate: of stuff it fits in mine 

and like, I dunno how I'd store them otherwise because I'd have 20 things stacked on top of each other. Between trays and pys things 

and 

Jen: they're never the same size, so like they don't stack on top of each other neatly at all. 

Kate: them out? Like the bottom one, if it's stuck in the bottom of the paint? This 

way they're just all stacked 

vertically. You can pull one at a time's.

a game changer. It really, really, is for storing big, long things like that, 

Jen: Yeah. That's 

genius. Yeah. 

Kate: put them. 

Jen: The other [00:23:00] thing as well, we, we talked about this before in a previous episode. I think it's like my most viewed post on Instagram, I think is there's a tiny 10 centimeter gap left over between my fridge and my

exterior wall, which normally anybody else would've just paneled over it because that's what you do, right?

So kitchen cabinets are like, there's standard width, um, and that's how it is. And so like every house

is different, so you're probably gonna have gaps somewhere probably. And if you have one, consider putting a door on 

it 

or something, or leaving it, you know, open if you're someone that's really clean, because those really narrow 

vertical spaces can, you can fit so 

much. in there, so much 

Like, I love that cabinet and I would be lost without it. So

don't forget, uh, 

those vertical spaces that are 

Kate: Use every inch. I think that's just a 

good thing to employ in kitchens anyway. Like we have three meter high ceilings And we

put our cabinets in the ceiling. Yes, I don't access the top one all the time, but I can access it if we stand in the kitchen stool. and I put light things up there like, you know, plastic.

Stuff and bottles or whatever that's in a box that's [00:24:00] light to carry down or lift down if I need to. But it's outta sight, you know, some kind of bar stuff that I don't use all the time is up there as well. And I just think like, use the space, why not?

Jen: Use of space. Yeah.

Um, 

Kate: what about Pan? So you said sliding high pantries. I think that's.

In general, 

if you can put in slide and hide, BOS do. The mechanism is a bit expensive. I think slide and hide door 

mechanisms are around a thousand euros, maybe even 1200 euros for the mechanism, just so that it does add a bit of cost. But I think if you have a pantry that's any way. 

First of all, it's just an easy way to tidy everything away and have mess behind it.

But if it's any way in a kind of a walkway or throughway or

anything like that, like say my pantry is kind of a, a walkthrough from my hallway into my kitchen, like it makes so much sense that those 

doors 

fold away. Yeah.

Jen: one of those spends that is absolutely worth it. So if you can afford to work it into your budget, definitely, definitely do. It's really worth it. You'll not regret it. Um, I [00:25:00] think that's, yeah, that's, it's just a no brainer for me, I think.

Kate: Yeah, so like we do have to talk about like lighting and stuff, but I think that could be lighting and workshops I think could be something completely separate by themselves. And we did cover lighting a little bit, but if you were to think 

about like your kitchen now, any 

regrets? 

And I'll tell you mine, 

Jen: No, I love it. I'm obsessed with my kitchen. You do. Me. I like, I think, no, I really don't. I absolutely love it. There's nothing like I should say that I 

don't love having My My sink on my peninsula, but there's nowhere else I could have put it. I just didn't have the space for it. So I don't regret it per se.

Um, I also have a really deep peninsula that I love.

Uh, no, I love my kitchen and obsessed in the kitchen 

Kate: Savvy 

Jen: so happy with it. 

Kate: Well done, Don. Um. I'll 

Jen: Yeah. Well done, Todd. 

Kate: what I regret regretted, I don't anymore. It's not my kitchen anymore. [00:26:00] The island I mentioned was too deep, too long, or not deep enough, sorry, and too long. So long and narrow. It was awkward to kind of sit at 

in groups of more than two or three people, and then.

On the island. I dunno if it's a regret 'cause I 

dunno if I would've fitted on the other one. But they were things that, you know, I probably would've done differently. And then the other one is probably going with a color that was maybe a bit bold because now I'm so sick of that color green, I never wanna see it again in my life.

Um, but yeah, it was probably a bit of a statement. and I 

think, I don't think I'd make 

that

statement again 

in terms of like a color, a painted color.

Jen: Yeah. I'll tell you the things I love. The, like, the opposite of regrets is that the pocket doors, so somewhere to hide the mess is massive. Um, I went for extra sockets as far as I possibly could that like, I really am delighted about that. Um. What else did I do? I love, I'm delighted with no

overhead cabinets and the downdraft extractor. I would do that all day long again and going floor to ceiling, so a full wall of floor to 

[00:27:00] ceiling. I think that's why I was able not to have overhead cabinets then in the 

other 

wall. 

Kate: Yeah, I think floor to ceiling is a key one and one thing in our last, we boxed out the back of a kind of a butler's pantry. Um, just because we had that extra depth to kind of flush out the wall in hindsight, like we should have used that full depth for something like anything, whatever. It's better to just use, have the space than box it out and waste it.

So I feel like 

that was a bit of a regret for me in this. We literally built all the way around the old chimney breasts. So we used every single bit in our coffee dock and put in a tiny little sink in there to wash my milk

pitcher out after I made coffee and stuff. So that's something

that I 

kind of regretted and one regret from this kitchen.

One tiny, tiny regret I haven't found anything

else 

that I regret yet is I didn't put in a crap 

drawer this time. 

Jen: Oh, did you not?

Kate: No. I have no drawer for throwing 

shit into, you know,

when you come into 

your kitchen. So I have a basket kind of on the 

countertop as you come in 

Jen: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: display open cabinet. But that's 

probably a, a little bit of a, 

mess.

I didn't think of it.

Jen: Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] Where do you put your mess? You have to design for your mess. That is the 

key to 

Kate: for your mess and 

Jen: be messy. Work around it. 

Kate: yeah.

Jen: Okay. I think we could do a bigger. Uh, we'll leave it here for today. I think

we can do a deep dive into appliances and worktops,

um, a bit more maybe on lighting. We can probably go for um, and just budget A quick note on budget as well.

Like when you do, when you are thinking about your, your appliances, you probably need to leave like

30% on top of your kitchen 

costs usually is what your appliances are gonna cost. Is that about 

fair?

Kate: Yeah. 

Yeah. Probably fair. Yeah. 

Jen: how much does the kitchen cost? And nobody can answer that. Only you 

can answer that 

question.

Kate: I know 

Jen: I mean, you're. 

Kate: be anything from

like. 

10 grand to a hundred grand. Like literally 

Jen: you, can answer that. 

Kate: you you have the control over that.

I think. 

Jen: Yeah. Okay. That we will leave that one 

there. And we'll do a deep 

dive on appliances and countertops soon, so we will 

dive into that next.

Kate: Okay. 

Jen: See 

you then. 

Kate: [00:29:00] Bye.

If you found this episode helpful, please hit subscribe. Give us a few stars and best of all, send it to someone else who you think would like it so they can subscribe to. Thank you.