#58 - Balance, Proportion, & Colour - Interior Decorating Explained

Having a good eye for design is partly an art - but there is a science to it too, and it's something you can learn. It’s about understanding the components of what makes a room just work. In this episode, we break down the core principles of interior design and how to apply them in your homes.

What we cover:

• The 7 key design principles: proportion, balance, unity, rhythm, emphasis, contrast, and detail.
• How to use repetition and contrast to create a cohesive space.
• Choosing colour based on tone and shade.
• The most common layout mistakes - from rugs and artwork to furniture placement.
• Mood boards, finding your style and not panic shopping.
• The “slow interiors” approach - it's totally fine to take your time.

Key takeaways:

• Good design is about proportion and layout first, styling second.
• Colour decisions should always start with the light in your space.
• The best interiors evolve over time - not in one shopping trip.
  
  

This episode is a practical guide to creating a home that feels juuuust right.

Follow the podcast on Instagram @ripitup_podcast_official, or follow us - Jenny is @workerscottage and Kate is @victorianrathmines

Transcript

## Intro

**Intro:** [00:00:00] Welcome back to a brand new season of Rip It Up. Every renovation teaches you something, but it's only after you've lived through the dust, the delays, and the decisions, and then done it again like me, that the real lessons appear. This season, we're revisiting our biggest renovation topics, not with theory, not with optimism, but with hindsight.

Process planning, lighting, kitchens, bathroom windows, what worked, what didn't, and what we'd never do the same way again. This is what we wish we knew then. 

**Jennifer:** Welcome back to the podcast. Hi Kate. 

**Kate:** Hi Jen. 

**Jennifer:** We're coming towards the end of this new series that we're running. What we wish we knew then with all the added benefits of your new renovation, more experience in hindsight. And 

**Kate:** mistakes for you guys. 

guys. 

**Jennifer:** yeah, you are welcome. Um, the, we're we, everything we've touched on so far I feel has been quite technical.

Um. And renovation focused, and we're going a little bit into the design aspect of things now. We're still going to keep it more [00:01:00] technical. Would you say 'cause design is, 

**Kate:** because design is visual. Like 

**Jennifer:** it's visual. It's an art.

**Kate:** So rather than being like, look at this color, look at this floor. Look at it's more about, Yeah. the technicalities of not making big mistakes, I guess.

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's an art, right? Some people have the eye, some people maybe don't have the eye, but I really think it can be learned. It's like, it's like playing the piano or learning an instrument. Like some people might take to it and be amazing at it and go on to play in an orchestra, but you can still learn it.

Like there's rules of poem that you can learn. And I think a really good thing to do is almost as we. Go through this podcast as you were listening to it, is to maybe look around your own home or think about your own home or look through magazines or some of the things that you've saved maybe on Pinterest that you've liked, and see if you can see what we're talking about.

And it's a good way to learn. 'cause you can like, ah, that I like that look because of symmetry or because the proportion is right and I can see what good looks like and you really can learn that way. 

**Kate:** Why does a room look [00:02:00] good? 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** put your finger on it, but like, you know, it's usually from a technical standpoint, it looks right and it's put together correctly. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like interior designers go to college for a reason, and there's a lot more to it than this, but these are just some good, some good guidelines. Okay, so will we start off by saying if anyone is watching on YouTube and we're both holding up our number one favorite book, which is the Interior Design Handbook by Frida Ramad.

It is just the Bible for like. What would you say the basics? It 

**Jen:** I, 

**Jennifer:** covers so much in such a small book.

**Kate:** It really breaks down all the aspects of kind of interior design. Now. There's no, it's a black and white book.

and there's No, color pages

**Jennifer:** No, there isn't. Nope. 

**Kate:** just black and 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** so that'll tell you how less it is a more technical. But like we were kind of just saying, it's those little tips and tricks and getting heights right, and sizes right, and spacings right, and all that kind of stuff that should make a room feel put together correctly. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if you're listening and you're about to renovate or redecorate, [00:03:00] that's a great one to get. So 

**Kate:** Have. 

**Jennifer:** there are, we'll start off with there, there's around seven design principles. Somewhere you, somebody might say there's five, somebody might say there's eight, whatever. But there are seven that we kind of tend to stick to.

So these are, uh, good rules of thumb. First one you mentioned kind of earlier proportion and scale 

**Kate:** Mm-hmm. 

**Jennifer:** Very important to get right. So if you're looking at a room and it feels right, generally it's because the items in that room are proportionate to the size of the room and to each other. Is that 

**Jen:** fair 

**Jennifer:** to say?

**Kate:** fair and it's something that I come across a lot where people are like, oh, my room is quite small, so I'm looking for like a small sofa, a small table, and having a load of small bits in a room that's already small just makes it feel a bit piece 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** What I find the challenge with things like small rooms and small spaces, or ones with nooks, like my house has now a lot of different nooks. You kind of have to go somewhat custom on some of that stuff and then 

**Jennifer:** Agreed.

**Kate:** things correctly and fill the space, it actually makes the room feel 

bigger. 

**Jennifer:** [00:04:00] Totally agree. Custom makes such a big, especially if the space is awkward, it's any curves or it's not a straight wall. Um, but you're right, and like I'm looking at a very small room here, and the temptation is to just shrink the furniture. In response to the room. But you don't, you still want to fill the space.

You have just have fewer pieces, um, rather than, yeah, rather than more, um, more small pieces. 

**Kate:** Yep. 

**Jennifer:** okay. That's, uh, that scale and portion on balance. This is really important because symmetry. 

**Jen:** Is 

**Jennifer:** a very important concept, I guess, in design, in beauty, in visual appeal. Uh, but it doesn't necessarily mean the exact same things on both sides of the room.

There's a few different types of symmetry you can have. Um, you know, you can have the kind of perfect, you know, two matching armchair on either side of a fireplace, for example. Very symmetrical. 

**Kate:** two candlesticks and two bookends or whatever. 

But 

**Jen:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** more formal, isn't it? 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, it is. You can also then have very [00:05:00] purposeful asymmetry where you have things weighted on one side, um, and then, uh, you know, two candlesticks of varying height 

**Jen:** at, 

**Jennifer:** or three at the end of one bookshelf.

And then, you know, maybe dropping down to a low height of something like a little object or something like that at the other end of it. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Um, and then the other,

**Kate:** Lawrence Luelle and Bone used to always say like, everything has to be symmetrical. But that was his style, right? That 

**Jennifer:** yeah.

**Kate:** like Victorian kind of style or whatever. But I think we've moved away a lot from that, I think, unless you really, really want that kind of formal good room, but. I think, um, people want a bit more relaxed feel, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** requires a little, little bit of tweaking. I must have moved the armchair and the kind of two nested tables before my photo shoot a hundred 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** tweaks this way and that way. And like you said, it's about balancing. Imagine like a scales, 

**Jennifer:** Yes.

**Kate:** side of the room versus the other side of the room should have kind of equal amounts of things or overall weight of things, but not the same. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, like the overall outline, let's say, of the [00:06:00] objects that you have there should fill roughly the same space. So that might be 

**Jen:** a 

**Jennifer:** couch on one side and two armchair or two chairs in a little table or something like that on the other side. But yeah, I love that concept of scales. Um, the balance is there.

And then the last type is radial, uh, which really means that, you know, there's. Repeating patterns around a central object, which is typically a dining table, 

**Jen:** um, 

**Jennifer:** and not much else. Maybe a bedroom or something like that. Um,

**Kate:** you have one of those huge rooms where you have this big, dunno, focal corner group sofa or sunken, like living 

**Jennifer:** I was gonna say, what did they call it? There's something doing the rounds on Instagram and it was like the groove area or something like that. like what they, in the seventies, what they called those sunken living rooms. Couldn't love it more. I absolutely adore them. Um, so yeah, balance really important.

Another thing, I think this one is so huge, the third one is unity. And that really means repeating the same background elements throughout your house. So [00:07:00] this is handles on your doors. This is the color of your finishes, of your hardware, um, maybe even like flooring, maybe for example, esp like trims, your arbitrary of your skirting boards.

Try to keep that similar. 

**Jen:** Um. 

**Jennifer:** Throughout your house, that really makes a huge, huge, huge difference. Um,

**Kate:** I think like a lot of people are nervous if they buy a tap from one brand and maybe, I dunno, their hardware and switches or something outside is a different brand. So it's, it's, it's hard to get to match. Exactly. And in that instance I always say like natural materials. Are neutral in my mind. 

**Jen:** definitely.

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

definitely. 

**Kate:** if you have a fake brass finish or a fake gold finish and a fake copper finish, yes, they're gonna clash in the same room. But if you have a real brass doorknob and you decide to go for, I dunno, polish nickel on your taps or 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** not gonna clash. 'cause they're both kind of natural, know, not fake versions of each other. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** still work. 

**Jen:** yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Agreed. They're neutral. And I think as well, 'cause you're not gonna [00:08:00] get the same brand of like taps and light switches, but you can definitely do the same style. So like if your overall style is, you know, curved and very smooth lines, then keep that throughout in whatever else you're, you're getting.

**Jen:** Um, 

**Jennifer:** but if your overall style is, um, you know, very bold, traditional, yeah, 

**Kate:** Yeah, 

**Jennifer:** keep that first. I think that's really important.

**Jen:** I, 

**Kate:** Yeah.

And I think the same goes for things like, um, finishes when it comes to floors and 

**Jen:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** and stuff. People are kind of worried about those clashing again. Ideally, you don't want them so close that you're trying, it looks like you're trying to make a match and they're clashing.

So I'd make them far enough apart that there's no dis there's a good distinction between them that people don't think you're trying to match them.

**Jennifer:** Yeah, because that just looks weird. It, it's like, it's like that uncanny valley thing. Your eye just picks up on the difference and it's kind of uncomfortable. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** yeah, that's a great one. 

**Jen:** Okay, 

**Jennifer:** next one. I love, especially for say, shelf styling. This is really important and this is why people who have these amazing just.

Finishes in their house, make it look so good. [00:09:00] And that's having rhythm. And it can be, there's something very basic about just putting three items together or five. But, um, there, there's, so this is, I actually got this tip from some and a, a personal shopper. One time I hate shopping and I did this personal shopping thing and it was brilliant.

And she was kind of teaching me how to accessorize and she's like, if you're bringing in a color, bring it in three times. So if it's shoes. Repeat it somewhere, maybe in the belt and repeat it in, you know, your hair tie or something like that, or your lipstick, or your nail varnish. Um, so I have like, my couch in my living room is this very bold turmeric color.

And then I have the same color cushions over in my, uh, dining area. And then I have the same color lamp, uh, 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** the dining area too. Our brain's just like threes.

**Kate:** I have a few black kind of accents, I would say in my kitchen. And I, um, think the tying piece for me was when I got black kitchen stools recently, I just felt like immediately when I put those kitchen [00:10:00] stools on, I was like, oh, it grounded everything. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** on the other 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** that they weren't floating.

So I have a. I

I have a big black like, um, uh, plant pot on one of the shelves 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm. 

**Kate:** kind of draws your eye over there. And then now have the black stools, and so are the light wall lights up black fittings on the way from the hallway 

**Jen:** Hmm. 

**Kate:** my kitchen. So your eye just picks up those, you know, little black elements or whatever color it is, and just goes, oh, I saw that there.

And it just feels cohesive even though they're not the same thing. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, a hundred percent. And it works for color. It also works for maybe shape. So if you're going, if you're bringing a pattern into your house, like if you have, um, paneling, for example, on a wall or. I dunno, brickwork somewhere or something like that. It's nice to repeat it. It's nice to bring it through somewhere else.

Or you had it, you remember your kitchen countertop? You had that mat, some of the leftover material made into, um, a hallway table, 

**Kate:** Yes. Yeah. Yeah. a little shelf. Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Our brains love that. A bit of repetition. Um, and same goes for texture as well. Um, and I also [00:11:00] think it really works for grouping items together. So if you have 

**Jen:** back 

**Jennifer:** to say, candlesticks, three of them together looks great, or three objects on a shelf together of different heights, looks great.

Dunno why it is, but our brains love three.

**Kate:** I bought three.

uh, island stools and my husband's like. why did you not buy four? And I was like, I didn't know. It 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** isn't sitting, it isn't sitting right with me. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** But like I'm looking at it now and the, the island can definitely take a fourth 'cause they're quite tidy, the stools. But like, I'm like, I just want three of them.

Can I hide one somewhere 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** we need it 

it 

**Jen:** it 

**Jennifer:** just feels so much nicer. I know what it is. It's strange. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Okay, next one is, uh, it's on a focal point. So this is a really helpful one. When you're starting out your design or you're totally redecorating a room, 

**Jen:** it's 

**Jennifer:** very hard to know where to start. It's very hard to know what you get first. Um, and the idea, you don't ha it doesn't really matter where you start, but you have to start somewhere 

**Jen:** is 

**Jennifer:** kind of unhelpful.

But my point being, what is the focal point of that room? What is the main anchor? [00:12:00] Um. Of that room? Is it an incredible window with a view? Is it a really dramatic piece of furniture? Is it like art, like really stunning, striking art? Is it like a bold, massive fireplace? Like what is the one thing that is the main anchor or focal point in that room?

And then you work around from that and everything else needs to compliment that.

**Kate:** And that's what I find with like Victorian and kind of old period properties. Sometimes they do have those focal points. So sometimes I think you can kind of, oh, make, make them too fussy by bringing in loads of different 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** or whatever. And like the Cornes thing in the ceiling, roses sometimes speak for themselves, or 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** a big marble fireplace that might be in your front room or the. Beautiful bay window, you know, like make a big focal point to that. And

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** the focal point, you know, put your money into window dressings to really frame it out. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** Um, but Yeah.

as long as you don't have too many things, vying for the attention. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, that's it. It's attention. 'cause otherwise you're, you know, you're looking around and you're like, where do I land? Or what do I kind of latch [00:13:00] onto? Um, and it just really helps you design everything else. 'cause you're like, does it feed into that? Does it support that? Does it go with that? 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** and then you're not getting Yeah.

**Jen:** Competing 

**Jennifer:** materials. 

**Jen:** Okay. 

**Jennifer:** Number six is fan, like one of the best tips ever. And we've talked about it a lot and it's contrast. And this could be color, this could be especially texture, I think. And it's the concept of contrasting materials. Uh, and that's it. 

**Jen:** And 

**Jennifer:** it just works so well. Like it really can completely change the feel of room, even if they don't change, change any of the actual items.

Like you just change the, 

**Kate:** or 

**Jennifer:** the textures. 

**Kate:** same color, like it 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** all the same color and all different textures and varying fabrics and finishes of that same color group, and 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** really interesting room, I think. 

**Jennifer:** a hundred percent. Especially now kind of in the age of neutrals. I think that could like, that's why people love that so much because if you do look at a room that's fully neutral, it's still so interesting 'cause you've got different textured floors like contrasted [00:14:00] with, you know, if you've got rough, contrasted with smooth and like thick contrasted with very sleek.

**Kate:** rugs and like

**Jen:** Yeah.

**Kate:** and then you might have somebody. Yeah, 

I 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** that. that. 

**Jennifer:** it's such a winner. Okay, finally. And then number seven is the devil is in the details. It is so important to get the last details right, and like I know if you're listening to this and you're coming towards the end of renovation and you're drowning in decisions, 

**Jen:** we 

**Jennifer:** will get to that in a second.

But 

**Jen:** But 

**Jennifer:** it is, it is important. The, the small details, like the little finishes of things, they matter so much.

**Kate:** They do, and I think, I actually think that having a really. Well finished and tidy house is as important as having, you know, a house that looks nice in terms of color and 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** in there and the finishes on the floor. I think if you make the most of a place with by being, you know, tidy and organized and having things looking and presented in a really nice way, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** it's half the battle. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. And it is just those small little accessories, like those, those small things that, [00:15:00] that you can, can be used to bring in the other, um, kind of guidelines or principles that we talked about before. Like can bring in that unity, can bring in that rhythm, that rep, that repetition, um, details can really, really do that.

So it's really important.

**Kate:** Yeah. Yeah, but unfortunately, sometimes those details are expensive when it comes 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Yeah. 

**Kate:** and switches And 

all that. But,

**Jennifer:** And hard to get right.

**Kate:** I, yeah, I think those hardware things are a good investment piece. It's, it's not impossible, but it's trickier to change them out after the fact. So I think I'd kind kind of almost include them as one of the, uh, know, fixed 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm. 

**Kate:** core items when you're doing your renovation. 

**Jen:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Agree. Um. And that's it. So those are the seven. Uh, they are super helpful. Um, and as I said, it makes sense to just 

**Jen:** look 

**Jennifer:** at rooms that you really like and see what you can spot in there and that you can learn then why rooms that you like work. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Um, it can be learned. 

**Jen:** Okay. 

**Jennifer:** we're gonna touch on color next because there again, there's just so many.

Like, I mean, how many shades of paint are there? 5 [00:16:00] billion gazillion 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jen:** It's just 

**Jennifer:** white.

**Kate:** it. So that's something that people ask me a lot what paint is in this room 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** I almost like, I always reply and I tell people what it is, but I'm also like, it doesn't matter because my room is not your room. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** gonna have different light. It's gonna be like, it's also photographed differently, right?

So it's 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** up different on my camera versus it is in real life or whatever, or on your phone versus my phone, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** on if you have like a nighttime filter and you're looking at. A red screen at nighttime or something like, so I think looking at colors and stuff online and on other people's houses irrelevant. 

**Jennifer:** you have to understand the light that's coming into your room. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** and that's really it. Like what, you know, what else is going with? Like, how's it matching up to the floor? How's it matching up to the window trims? Like all that kind of stuff. 

**Jen:** Um,

**Kate:** say you like a family of colors. Say, say 

**Jennifer:** yeah.

**Kate:** and you're like, I love that this room is all red and terracotta. Then you know you're looking at those kind of colors. But if you're looking at like [00:17:00] beige, you need to just sample a million 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** space and then find the ones with the undertones that suit your life. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. And then there are good rules that thumb from Marion colors together, right? So there is 

**Jen:** like, 

**Jennifer:** every designer will start off using the color wheel. If you Google it, you'll find it. And what that does is structure different colors and different tones together so that you know. What pairing colors together will mean what kind of output or result that will have.

So you have like colors that are very opposite each other, called complimentary. They always go together like. Um, like mustard and navy Classic, they always work together. I'm just looking at that in my own couch. Um, you can get, 

**Kate:** it. 

**Jennifer:** you can get kind of contrasting colors that work really, really well together.

Um, you can go in like rules of threes and they group well together. So it's something to look into yourself and then staying in the same, oh, 

**Jen:** staying 

**Jennifer:** in the same, what would you call it? Like tone. Is that the right word? So that you don't have like a pastel, [00:18:00] like a rich jewel color somewhere else. It's kind of better to stay in the same 

**Jen:** family.

**Kate:** of shades. 

**Jen:** Yeah. 

**Jennifer:** Level of shades. Exactly. Exactly.

**Kate:** yeah. 'cause I think sometimes if you go like. You know, one room is that real dually, dual kind of toned, bright color and then somewhere else is really earthy. That doesn't work 

**Jennifer:** Uh, yeah. 

**Kate:** so one is a real maximalist interior and one might be a real earthy kind of minimalist or whatever. So I just think it's important to kind of put them all together, even if you screenshot them and put them all on one 

**Jen:** yeah.

**Kate:** Or whatever on your phone screen, on a story and screenshot it or something like that, just to put them all together and see what it does 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** layered on top of each other.

Because I think if they look nice together there, they'll probably look nice together in your house. But again, light, light, light is king 

**Jen:** Yeah.

**Jennifer:** So like my example is like the colors in my house are very saturated, rich, slightly like quite deep colors. And every Easter I love getting like tulips or just kind of Easter style flowers, [00:19:00] but that's a very pastel color palette and it just does not go in my house. It just doesn't work. It just does not like the, don't work well together.

**Kate:** you had Sunflowers 

last week and they looked lovely.

**Jennifer:** Sunflowers are perfect. They're still going actually. Yeah, they really lasted. Actually I did, I got a present of tulips the other day, and they're really rich color tulips, like a deep red and a deep kind of purple and yellow. They, they're working fabulously, but usually that those kind of past colors don't match.

**Jen:** Um, 

**Jennifer:** so the, those are rules of thumb there, 

**Jen:** I think 

**Jennifer:** on color. And also, sorry, a last word on color. As a rule of thumb, uh, color drenching I think is just like. It's everywhere at the moment, and I think we have to think of it as here to stay. It's not a trend, it just works a lot.

**Kate:** Yeah. and I also think like when you're looking at paints and looking at paint colors, I do think some of the. slash British brands will perform better. I think they're designed for the kind of light and 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm. 

**Kate:** more gray climate. There's a range with UX called UX Signature, and it does kind of like those tonal [00:20:00] shades of each shade in kind of a mid or light, mid dark or something like that. 

**Jen:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** way to step color through your house, 

And 

**Jennifer:** yeah, 

**Kate:** designed for like Irish light, 

**Jennifer:** yeah. 

**Kate:** that might be worth a look. Um, 

**Jennifer:** So that do look so great. Fleet Fleetwood, 

**Jen:** having amazing,

**Jennifer:** having ama, their privilege range is unreal. A whole bunch of new colors out at the moment. They're fab. 

**Jen:** We 

**Jennifer:** love Farley and Co. Um. 

**Jen:** Um. 

**Jennifer:** I like color trend. Actually. Our example we always use is that like my, all my walls are painted in color trend, subtle, and you had that on your walls and they look completely different like in a different house.

So it's just, 

**Kate:** like it's all down to light, right? Like 

**Jennifer:** yeah,

**Kate:** to light. And what undertones you see in that paint Somewhat. For 

**Jen:** yeah.

**Kate:** just a bit too purple in the light that I had in my house. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** but then I see other paint looks so amazing in some people's 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** a lot of light and you like deep colors, remember that those color paints are gonna look much more washed out in a really bright 

**Jen:** Yeah, 

**Jennifer:** yeah, 

**Kate:** you might need to go a bit deeper if you want that kind of rich, rich, 

**Jen:** yeah. [00:21:00] 

**Jennifer:** yeah. Okay. And next one to touch on as kind of a concept that is often wrong, I think, or people often get wrong and it's, it's, it's not, you can, it's not hard to get right. I'll tell you, um, is around layout. So just like every room as you're look, as you're approaching every room. Google it or get that interior design handbook because there's measurements in there and there's things like how much space should be between items and it really matters.

'cause I really think a lot of the times when rooms just don't feel right or feel a bit empty or cluttered, it's 'cause just things are just shoved too close together or like 

**Jen:** they're 

**Jennifer:** not, or or space too far apart as well. It just feels a bit strange. Do you know? 

**Kate:** Yeah, I always, yeah, we always talk about rugs, 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** too small in a space. I also can say I'm not a massive fan of it going like all the way under all the furniture because I love seeing my floor as well. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** you can go under the front legs and it still look right, but it depends on the house.

Like if 

**Jennifer:** Yeah,

**Kate:** Old floorboards in there a bit wrecked, but you still like a little peek of them here and there. Maybe you might go massive on the rug, but 

**Jen:** yeah,

**Kate:** a bit more [00:22:00] or some people don't wanna put rugs down that are too big if they have underfloor 'cause they feel 

**Jennifer:** yeah. 

**Kate:** blocking a bit of that heat. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** um, I think, yeah. laying it out, right, and having the right circulation space and stuff like that. And that's especially important I think, in kitchens and kitchen layout, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** in from your hole up against an island, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** are on that side of the island, so it always looks a bit messy.

You know, just designing the flow and the layout and how you walk through spaces better. 

**Jennifer:** It's so important.

**Kate:** I had a client recently, and we were talking about an extension she was doing at the back, and she wanted to kind of a lounge, a dining and the kitchen space, all in one kind of area, and she wanted to push. The living to the center because she was worried that the kitchen wouldn't get enough light if it was in 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** But I was kind of saying, you've like three, or four small kids and you're talking about the kids wanting somewhere for their toys. I said, 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** into then is the couch with a load of toys around it. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** be what you see on entry. So like, I mean, tuck that away. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** the far kind of corner. 

**Jen:** Yeah.[00:23:00] 

**Kate:** Um, obviously everyone's, every plan is slightly different, but just walk your own through when you're talking about layout. 'cause those 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Like if you're, if you, if you're listening and you, you have floor plans, for example, that you're looking at that your architect might have done or somebody might have done, it's so helpful just to, 

**Jen:** like, 

**Jennifer:** with a pencil, just draw through like where, what's the line from like the door or the entry point to that room over to the couch, over to the ho, over to the fridge, over to the bed.

You know, like, do you have to work your way around something to get there? And if you do, it's not gonna work. It's gonna be annoying to live in. 

**Kate:** Yeah. 

And, and another kind of, you, you, you. Mentioned, I think like artwork is mirrors and stuff. Before that it should be kind of at eye level. So you're 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** when you come into a space that it's not really high, 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** you're really tall, people maybe put it slightly higher. But if you're normal, you know, like you 

might 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** 50, but think about that.

Think about wall lights if you're doing it, that 

**Jen:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** is maybe installing them all at the same height everywhere. 

**Jen:** Yeah.

**Kate:** those kind of little tweaks of [00:24:00] heights and spacing and things like that, that they were all kind of thought out, I think 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. And another thing on artwork, there is a great rule of thumb that if you're putting up a piece or a number of pieces, kind of grouping them, gallery, whatever, 

**Jen:** they 

**Jennifer:** should take up about 60, 70%, 60 to 70% of the available space. So if you have, if you're putting them on one wall and they're going above a couch or something like that, the available space there, make sure you're filling it and that.

Is all to say that usually what you're hanging is too small. I think usually what people hang is too small. You need to go bigger than you think. 

**Kate:** Artwork 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** expensive, or really huge. Artwork's really expensive. 

**Jen:** what 

**Jennifer:** I've seen people do, and I love this, is. Either, like paint a block around an item, for example, so that there, that like the, the surround is the right size or frame something bigger than it actually is.

Because if you have a piece of art that you really love, you know, you can put it on a backing and then get a nice frame for it that is bigger, you know, that will bring it up to the right [00:25:00] size. 

**Kate:** And one of our guest, Tanya Newfeld Flanagan, she has 

**Jennifer:** oh yeah. 

**Kate:** uh, wall hanging, like a tapestry 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. So beautiful.

**Kate:** and Etsy have some really cool wall hangings. If you have a big, big space to fill, but you don't have 

**Jen:** Yeah.

**Kate:** Deep pockets be buying like really expensive artwork.

I 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** cool idea as well. And Rebecca Wakefield, one of my favorite designers ever, ever, ever. She had up on her stores the other day that she framed tea towels, but like 

**Jennifer:** Oh 

**Kate:** print on 

it. 

**Jennifer:** yeah.

**Kate:** print. So she got it framed and it looked so cool 

**Jennifer:** That's so cool.

**Kate:** T towels, when they're folded out and pressed are big enough.

Like, when you put that in the frame, 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** a nice big piece of artwork for, um, actually pretty cheap. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. And also mirrors are great if you're afraid to buy art. Um, or like I saw a lovely stained glass piece before. Now they're also very expensive. Or one that ROI Lafferty always says is photography. Get a really nice piece of photography and hang that. 'cause that can be [00:26:00] less intimidating maybe than.

Looking for really nice artwork if you're just not into it. 

**Kate:** yeah. 

**Jennifer:** another quick one just before we move away from this subject is curtains. I think curtains can really, it's easy to make mistakes for curtains 'cause you feel like you hang them, 

**Jen:** you 

**Jennifer:** know, a bit above the window and a bit outside the end window.

Don't do that. Hang it as high as you can and make sure that they go all the way to the floor 

**Kate:** yeah, 

**Jennifer:** and brush the floor, or even pool a tiny bit. 

**Jen:** That is 

**Jennifer:** the way to go there. 

**Kate:** I agree. 

**Jennifer:** It always looks better. 

**Kate:** 'em too short. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. Okay. A very quick one. Finally on nearly finally on mood boards and putting things together, there's a rule of thumb that we absolutely love, which is Kate Watson Smith.

She's, uh, an ama. She's got an amazing blog called Mad About the House amongst many other things. And her rule of thumb is something new, something old, something black and something old. And I think it's such a handy way to sit and just look at a room and be like. You don't have to take it super literally, but something new and something old.

Is there like a bit of a mix of styles, like a couple of antique or vintage pieces mixed with some kind of modern [00:27:00] things that can look great? Something black. I think just something dark for contrast, just to bring in a bit of, you know, interest, visual interest and something gold. I take. Take that to mean like a metallic accent or reflective even accent around the room.

**Kate:** light fitting as 

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** something, you know, something like that. Something with a bit of sparkle or a bit of focal point maybe. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. I love it.

**Kate:** Yeah, I go back to that again again. It's just easy to remember. It's nice. 

**Jennifer:** That's a great one to remember. Um, mood boards. How do you do your mood boards? Do you do them on Pinterest? 

**Kate:** use Google Slides for the most part. I'll pin stuff first on Pinterest and then bring 'em across and do 'em on Google Slides for people.

Um, I find that the kind of easiest way, 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** if you're, if you're not messing on your laptop a lot and you wanna just do it on your phone, screenshot them, crop them, and put them all into an Instagram story, and then you can download the Instagram story as an image. 

**Jennifer:** you don't have to post it. It's a handy way to layer lots of things together.

**Kate:** way of layering, like, you know, and you can put the layers up and down now in Pinterest 

**Jen:** Yeah.

**Kate:** stories by pressing and holding it, which is a great easy way of [00:28:00] kind 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** together. 

**Jennifer:** Or a Canva, if you don't mind downloading an extra, an extra app canva's Unreal for, for doing that as well. So handy. It's not that hard. It, there's a bit of a learning curve with it, but if you think you're gonna be 

**Jen:** with 

**Jennifer:** it for a while, then definitely go for it. Um, I will say I do think physical samples, like once you kind of decided on certain things, get physical samples of them and bring them everywhere.

Like have a bag with you and bring it everywhere. A tile, 

**Jen:** a 

**Jennifer:** a floorboard, your paint, sample your fabric from your couch, like everything. Okay. 

**Kate:** Yeah, agree. 

**Jennifer:** And then a final note on. Something you've kinda started doing 

**Jen:** in your 

**Kate:** Mm, 

**Jennifer:** new house? 

**Kate:** Like you use all your money in renovation and I think, I'm sorry, but 80, 90% of people are probably in this boat where toward the end of a end of a renovation, like you're, you know, you're fairly 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** to finish off. There's Unforeseens and I am a big fan of just slow interiors.

Take your 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** I didn't buy everything. You know, I got bits, I got bits on adverts to tide me over until I really decided what I was doing with the room. And just like layer it, take time and you know, you might buy one [00:29:00] big item, like a big sofa or something like that. But then we had no media unit for a while.

I had a 50 year adverts thing for a while, and until we found the right 

**Jennifer:** Mm-hmm.

**Kate:** So just like taking the time to find the right things. I had no stools for almost an island or almost a year. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** I had two adverts, ones that I got for a tenure and 

**Jen:** yeah.

**Jennifer:** Yeah.

**Kate:** so. I, I was searching the whole time, but it's just until I found something.

That's right. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, 

**Kate:** think take your time. You'll you can't take your time when it comes to a mattress or a couch 'cause you might need those pretty quickly, but I think most other things can wait. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah, and it's like you can waste so much money, just kind of panic, buying the wrong thing, and then you're stuck with it and it's so annoying. So there's no deadline. It's grand. If someone comes over to your house, you're like, yeah, we're still in the middle of doing it up, looking for this, looking for that.

Nobody cares unless you have cameras coming into the house.

**Kate:** If you haven't even put up your pictures and stuff. Just stack 'em and lean 'em nicely against the wall. They 

**Jennifer:** Yeah,

**Kate:** place. It still looks kind of nice, you know? You don't have to have your gallery wall done and everything. 

**Jennifer:** yeah,

**Kate:** your time and chill with it.

And I think when you do it a bit [00:30:00] slower, you'll be much happier with the outcome 

anyway. 

**Jennifer:** yeah. Because you know, you need to get to know the space and how the light works there and how you're living there and what you want, what goes better, where 

**Jen:** sometimes 

**Jennifer:** you just have to let your brain kind of work on things in the background, and then 

**Kate:** And, 

**Jennifer:** the answer will come.

**Kate:** say sometimes, sometimes the option is painting your whole house, a kind of a, a 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** color. Color, drench it, and then when you have the head space down the line, maybe you might paint the walls a color or a 

**Jen:** Mm-hmm. 

**Jennifer:** Yeah,

**Kate:** definitely kind of employ that during a renovation because I just wanna see, I wanna see what the light is like.

I wanna see how I'm gonna use a room before I decide 

**Jennifer:** yeah,

**Kate:** commit on a deep color or bright color or something. 

**Jennifer:** yeah. Slow interiors. Don't panic. Just 

**Kate:** still don't 

**Jennifer:** it's gonna be fine. 

**Kate:** I have the alpha like 

**Jennifer:** Yeah. 

**Kate:** it

**Jen:** that 

**Jennifer:** was the best thing ever. That with you. Yeah. 

**Kate:** yeah, 

**Jennifer:** fixes. 

Okay. Hopefully that was helpful and 

**Jen:** we'll 

**Jennifer:** see you next week.

**Kate:** Yep. see you next week.

Bye.




## Episode


## Outro

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