S8 E8: Ginny & Me- Pre-Order Power & The Rise of Social-First Brands

In this episode, Yasmin O’Donnell shares the story behind Ginny & Me a social-first fashion brand that has quickly built a cult following around its hero flared-sleeve windbreaker jacket. What began in her Oxford Brookes University bedroom, experimenting with Amazon-bought fabrics and hand-sewing garments, has grown into a brand that now sells out monthly pre-orders, has been featured in Vogue and Vanity Fair, and operates with a fiercely loyal community, all without a traditional retail or buying background.

Yasmin talks about how Ginny & Me started as what she calls an “accidental brand,” initially rooted in linen and gingham pieces (with the name itself evolving from “gingham”). Before even launching her first drop, she had already built a following of 800 people and when that first collection went live, it sold out in just 28 minutes. From there, the brand evolved into its now-signature product: the flared-sleeve windbreaker, which gained traction after a viral TikTok moment at a King’s Road pop-up. That moment not only accelerated growth but also introduced the pre-order model that now defines the business.

We explore why pre-order has been such a powerful strategy for Ginny & Me - supporting cash flow, reducing waste, and building anticipation with every drop. Yasmin also shares the reality behind the scenes, from navigating multiple manufacturers before finding the right partners, to pricing products instinctively (even absorbing VAT to keep pricing accessible). The conversation touches on the brand’s unexpected crossover into the running and athleisure space, and how its content strategy has been driven less by planning and more by authenticity - showing the real, often chaotic day-to-day of building a business.

Alongside the growth, Yasmin opens up about the challenges too -burnout, scaling quickly, and the decision to bring in a fulfilment centre to support demand. She also shares her experience entering the wholesale world somewhat last-minute through Top Drawer, and what’s next for the brand, including upcoming collaborations and long-term ambitions across categories like homeware and babywear. It’s an honest and refreshing conversation about building a brand in a new way, trusting your instincts, and learning as you go.

Three Key Takeaways:

Pre-order is the way forward
Yasmin's monthly pre-order model eliminates waste, guarantees sales before production, and creates built-in hype and urgency. It turns limited supply into a feature, not a limitation - customers eagerly wait for each drop, and there's zero unsold inventory heading to landfill.

Authenticity beats polish
Ginny & Me's growth has been fueled not by a rigid content strategy but by Yasmin's raw, unfiltered personality on TikTok and Instagram. Showing the real, behind-the-scenes journey resonates far more than curated content - proving that relatability builds stronger, longer-lasting community loyalty.

Trust your gut and just start
With no formal fashi

Join us for our next Retail Buyer Meet up in London on Wednesday 28th April! Go to www.jointhebuyersclub.co.uk or DM us @jointhebuyersclub

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Hello and welcome to Buying and Beyond, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of retail buying. We're Kate and Linz, and we are talking all things retail buying and beyond with real people in retail. So grab your drink of choice and come and have a giggle with us. Our membership created for buyers by buyers. If you work in retail buying, you'll know that this role is unlike any other.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

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SPEAKER_00 1:47

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SPEAKER_01 2:35

So, today we're joined by someone who proves that retail success isn't just for the experienced or established. It can be built straight out of passion, creativity, and grit. Our guest, Yasmin O'Donnell, founder of Ginny Me, a fast-moving social first brand best known for its hero-fled windbreaker jacket and its director community approach. Yasmin started Ginny Me just two and a half years ago at university with a clear vision and an instinctive understanding of her audience. In that time, she's mastered pre-order campaigns, built meaningful engagement on social platforms, and turned followers into loyal customers, all without the traditional retail or buying background. So in this episode, we're going to talk about how Ginny and Me began, what pre-order success has taught her about product strategy and community, and how she's navigated the ups and downs of launching and scaling a fashion brand in today's digital landscape. Hi, Yes. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming. It has. We were so excited when we saw your brand at Top Draw. You were so full of enthusiasm. You had the smallest little stand, and you were like, is it too small? And we were like, no, because your personality and your passion more than made up for it. You were standing there with one of your friends, and I remember you just approaching us and just sort of having a chat. And then it just naturally, we were like, we love your product and tell us about it. And it was your enthusiasm just shone through. So tell us, like, how did you get started and how did you end up being at Top Draw? Yeah. It's actually such a crazy story because Ginny and Me was an accidental brand. So I started Ginny and Me in my Oxford Brooks University bedroom when I was in end of first year, going into second year, and I was literally just so bored. So I went onto Amazon and I bought, I think it was 40, 40 tops and 40 trousers. And I hand and I also bought a sewing machine and I hand sewn every single item. And then I was like, okay, now I need to actually do something with these items. So I remember you showing me them, like showing us pictures of them. They were really cool. And didn't all your friends start like wanting to have them too? Yeah, so literally, and like all my friendship group, it's like such a plus for me because all my friendship group, everyone's gorgeous. So I was like, right, I was like, instead of the pub, we're all gonna go do a photo shoot. And they're like, all my friends are so vain, so they're like, we love this. And I was like, this is great for me. Like the first drop though, like I feel bad for anyone who actually has like the first drop because all of like my hand sewing, it's all awful to be honest. Like the stitching was not it, but yeah, so I started it literally, like Amazon ordered everything, and then I had done lots of social media content before for like different brands. So I used all of like my background of that, and I started the Instagram. And for the first drop, I think we got around 800 followers before it actually dropped. That's amazing. Yeah, so I did like a photo shoot, and then I did like two weeks of like, this is what's coming, it's a one-off drop. And then yeah, I dropped it and it sold out within 28 minutes. The first drop that is insane. What did they look like? Describe, describe the tops and trousers and how you custom them with these. It was also so we had linen shorts and linen cami tops, and then we had gingham, we had five different colours of gingham, and then I remember like I'd seen other brands. I was like, I'm gonna make it creative. So instead of calling it the red gingham top, we called it like the cherry sour top. We had a green gingham, and then I named it the pistachio green gingham. So I was really like trying to make it as creative as I could, yeah. Yeah, and then that's also where the name Ginny and Me comes from, is I wanted it all gingham-based, so it was all gingham-based originally for like I think a year and a half. Ginny, I just shortened from gingham, and then Ann Me because it was always like you'd always be wearing gingham. So you're gonna be able to do that. Oh wow, it's so fun, the brand as well. Yeah. So, how did you manage to kind of get that those 800 followers? What was it that you did? So I originally like I'd seen other brands, so I went on to the other brands, and I literally was going on to their followers and following loads and loads of people, and then obviously at the same time, I was posting my content, and from that it was just like building like so much recognition. But I also my friends like are my biggest support system ever. Like, I wouldn't be where I was if it wasn't for my friends. So all of my friends, everyone posted on their stories, uh, and obviously, with like university friends, they have friends from home and stuff, so it literally spread like wildfire straight away. So I think I was like a new brand, and at the time there weren't many new brands because they were either like the old ones, or I think after me, then lots of other people started brands. So I think it was also just like amazing timings, and it was just it was a new brand for everyone to follow at the time. And you saw a real like, I guess, gap in the market. What kind of brands were you and your friends into at that time? Oh, well, let's have a probably around many, many clothes. That's a brand that I literally I have so many items from already. And then there's Minka Dink, there's Moralite England, there's No Emotions. So they're all being brands like around the same time or before me. So they were, and then we all have around similar target markets anyway, but obviously different products. So they were the ones did you feel that you were really sort of inspired by? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Brilliant. And so what we really spotted at Top Drop were your amazing jackets, the little raincoats, which obviously the keys was what took my eye, and I know you've gone into other patterns too. But how did you move from these sort of like these linen items that suddenly everyone's buying and you're selling out super quickly into what you're sort of seen for or what we know now? Yeah, so the I brought out our windbreakers, I think a year and a half into Ginny and Me, and that is literally what Ginny and Me is known for. Like it just went like crazy viral. So I started with a pre-order of that, those jackets, and they have been on pre-order for I think two years now, every single month, which is crazy. But I so at university, like I feel like everyone's always going to the pub in like tiny tops and going to the club in tiny tops, but I was never that girl, like I've always been like a hoodie or like a jacket. I felt like everything was really like masculine, and I hated that. Like I literally hated it. So I I would always be looking for like proper like jackets to wear out, but again, everything was like really unisex, and I just wanted something that would be really feminine that like none of the boys would have because like all the jackets, like all the boys would wear as well. And I'm like, oh, hate it, but I just didn't want to wear a time top. Yeah, so I was like, I want to start a I want to bring out jackets. So our original prototypes didn't have the flared sleeves, it was just actually the the print, which was super girly already. And then I just spent so much time and I was like, there's something missing. And then originally I put actually like the flared on the bottom of the waistband, and I was like, it's it's missing. I was like, it's not right. And then I literally just had the idea, I was like, let's just add it to the sleeves, and straight away I was like, this is it, and I've never changed the prototype since.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Incredible. And it's it's so amazing to see how much success you've had from one product. I mean, obviously, there's so many different variations, prints, and colours and and you know, bits and pieces, but uh, were you sort of blown away, like with how you do one product?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yes, I at the time I was doing a pop-up on the King's Road for Mima Rose, it was another like small clothing brand, and I released them there and I got the girls to model, and then straight away the TikTok went viral, straight away. I think it was like 100k, and everyone was spamming the comments. And I started the and then I feel like this is also a reason for the success of the windbreakers, is in I started the windbreakers with three products. So I had the beige, which is again, it's been our bestseller since day one. The beige, I had the baby blue, and then also the red. So straight away it went super, super viral, and I only have 15 of each. So I within the pop-up, it just sold out, and I was like, Oh no, I've gonna have to let everyone down. And it was actually one of my friends who was like, Why don't you do a pre-order? And I was like, I don't know how to do that, but okay, we'll try it out. Yeah, and so I did a pre-order, and I think I did, I think it was maybe like I upped it to like 30 of each, and within I think two minutes just sold out. Yeah, literally two minutes, and I remember seeing that my shock of eye was just going crazy, and I was like, Okay, I think we can do something with this. That's incredible. So it's been on pre-order ever since. Yeah, so I do a we do a pre-order, a monthly pre-order of everything. I think we have 16 jackets now. So we started with those three, and then when it came to like ordinal time, we brought out dark colours. We brought brought out a dark red, a dark green, and then also our maple, which is a bit of it's like a little bit of tartan, but not really, it's also gingham. And then um polka dots started trending. So I was like, right, let's bring up polka dots like three months later. So we brought out polka dots, then stripes are trending, so we brought out stripes, and I think with the wind breakers, it's it's not I think people are like waiting for the next job. And I can see like a familiar pattern of my customers when I look, and it's like people order around three jackets, like all different times of their waiting for the new job. You've just got a really loyal customer there, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Yeah, that's incredible. And what so what learnings have you taken from that for the for your business? Is it I mean, obviously, like you said before, you didn't really know what pre-order was, and I think there's so many brands that could learn from from doing more of a pre-order system because there's so many benefits, isn't there? In the sense that we're not making we're not making garments that aren't going to be wasted off, and you know, you've you've sold it before you've you've really released it, so you know exactly how many to make.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah, I mean, I definitely like I can say like I have made hundreds of mistakes before, like before Jinny and me. And I think even now, like it's still trial and error, like I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm just kind of like winging it anyway. Um but before the wind breakers, I remember I brought out some gingham cohorts, and I literally got the measurements so wrong, and I ordered like 70 of each, and I literally was like, Oh my god. So I think for me, as in they've all sold now, but it's in it's very much like the best thing I can say to any business owner pre-order is the way forward. Yeah, 100%. And it's like again, it like helps with anything ending up in landfill as well. It's like now it's like I have no waste, absolutely no waste. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all made to order, it's amazing. So, who is this customer? Who is your core customer? So it's so funny because I like I said, it's I started it for like if you're at uni or like going to the pub or like social to where like that. But so I live in Bassie, Clapham, and I don't think I've actually left the house with not seeing a running girl like walk past, like run past me. But I am not into fitness at all. Like you have to actually drag me to go on a run and not observe me. So it's so funny because our customer base, and like if you were to go on our Instagram, like I don't post anyone in fitness gear, like hardly anyone. But if you were to go on our tagged um post, everyone like it's all running influencers and running girls. So it's interesting. Yeah, and it's so weird to me, like how I it was never meant to be running jackets, but everyone, especially the London Marathon, I've had so many people being like, Can we get a pre-order before? Like, we need it for training and stuff. And I'm like, God, I was like, I really like because it was never meant to be a running jacket, but it's really gone down that route. Yeah, it's tapped into that kind of athleisia market, has it? Yeah, 100%. What leads me for my next um product launch is we are hopefully like this is just a sneak peek, but we're doing a big collab with two influencers, running influencers, and we're bringing out jackets with running shorts because I'm listening to my followers and everyone's like, we need more running gear. So I'm like, okay, we'll do it. And are they gonna be like a little matching cohort? Are they we're gonna do uh we're gonna do wind breakers and matching shorts of like a certain print? Oh, so cute! I love it. One thing I will say as well is like the jacket trend right now, you are totally on point. It's like you saw this coming or you have created it because jackets seem to be the thing. It's all short, even trenches this spring have dropped, and it's all about having that sort of like shape to it, not quite the fair sleeve that you've got, but almost like the sort of almost slightly bomber shape to wear, the kind of the cagul is cool. You've made the cagul cool. It's amazing, isn't it? And you see all these other retailers that as you know, all these retailers that are now going into jackets is one of their main things, but that is your sole product, and you're right on the man. I know, because like my mum was laughing because she was like, I used to like the amount of tantrums I used to have when she told me to put on a waterproof, how like the tables have turned. I'm like, I know it's so embarrassing. Like, which one shall I wear?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

That word cagul, though, like I mean, is you know, brings back, evokes so many memories.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Yeah, it makes you think of train spotters and things like that, doesn't it? The word cagul, it has this like, but no, you've made them cool. And so, how did you so you started from ordering from Amazon? I'm guessing that's not your model now. You've got factory or supply chain. What does your supply chain look like? So, again, trial and error for me, because it was in so I've got a degree in marketing and events, so I have absolutely no actual, like no experience in this um industry. So when I was first, I think I went through three or four manufacturers to find the perfect, like the perfect people for me. So again, like that was again, it was like a lot of loss of money. So if anyone out there is starting a business again, make sure you get it right. Is in don't give a hundred, like, don't spend loads of time getting hundreds and hundreds of clothes and be like, actually, the quality's not good. Actually, I don't like the manufacturers, all of that. But yeah, so I have uh two factories, I've got one in Turkey and one in Pakistan, and the guys in Pakistan do my windbreakers, and we've got 12 people who do the sewing. That's again why it's pre-order, because we can't get like that many anyway, which I get, I guess like for all my customers, pre-order makes them everyone be like, oh my god, we need to get our hands on this. So it's great for me because then it's like it is limited drop. And I remember because when we're at Top Drawer, one of the people came up to me and they're like, Oh, can I I really want to buy a jacket from you? And I was like, Everything here is actually sold out. And then I remember them making a comment, they're like, Do you just say that and you could actually get thousands made? But I was like, I have 12 people who literally work so hard on doing all the colours, all the hand sewing, like everything's hand sewn. So I was like, Yeah, the uh people that work for me are literally amazing and they make everything possible for sure. When you've sort of said that you needed to find the right factory, what is the right factory to you? Like, what has been the most important thing? Is it the relationship you have? Is it the quality? Is it the speed to market that actually they can be responsive and do things as and when you need, or is it price, or or is it something else? I think it's all a mix, but I'd say the top two has to be like relationship and quality, 100%. But like my relationship with my manufacturers, we speak the whole time. I think I speak to them more than I speak to my mum. That's a sign of a good relationship. Yeah, 100%. And and have you been out to these factories? No, I haven't. My mum has though, and also like we have like so much respect for each other as in like at the moment it's it's coming up for Eid for holidays. They're like, if you want a pre-order, let us know because we've got that off. And it's just like we all have we have so much respect for each other, which I love as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah, yeah. And they're growing with you as well, I assume. As you, you know, as you expand your business, they're gonna be part of that too. So it's kind of a journey that you're going on together, and it's so important to have them at the beginning understand where you've come from, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:36

I will also because I've had so many, I don't know where people find me, but in like my DMs or emails of so many manufacturers, like reach out to me, like, oh, we can do this for like a cheaper price. But I'm like, I have started these wind breakers with these manufacturers. Like I wouldn't be with, I wouldn't be where I was if it wasn't for them. So I think for me, like I will never leave them because like for the windbreakers especially, like they are solely like I wouldn't have been able to do it without them, basically.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

And there's a lot, like you said, there's a lot of um, there's a lot of relationship building there, isn't there? And there's a lot of things that you need to understand from their side as well as they need to start understand from your side. So uh to start that again, it's just you know, you've already gone and learned things together throughout this. Yeah, exactly. I think if it's perfect, just don't touch it. That's yeah, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, and then you can focus your attention elsewhere. So that's really interesting. You've had to learn about supply chains, you've had to learn about kind of I guess customer buying behavior. But as you said, you've got a degree in marketing. So, what sort of what tools or what did you learn? What did you already know that you could apply to this business? I think what I knew before was more actually in the um like social media world of how to grow an Instagram and how to gain followers and attraction, but um like marketing-wise, you know what? I've honestly not actually that I don't have much knowledge, but again, like I've said, it is all just trial and error. But um for me, it's like I just I think anyone who's starting up a business, like you just have to build the hype. That is literally all you have to do is build the hype. Yeah, and is it hype and community, would you say? Like, has that been something that's been really important that actually the people around you, like as you kind of said, you started from your friends at uni telling their friends, telling their friends, and it's sort of spread. And then I mean, are you getting kind of a feedback loop from your kind of friends and customers as to kind of what the what the demands are, what they want to see? Obviously, you've talked about the influences that you're you've got the really exciting collab with. Yeah, I mean, I'm always getting feedback anyway, and I also I love when customers go out their way to actually text me because I feel like I would never do this, but I do get like texts of customers be like, I just want to say, like, I've had so many compliments, and it was St. Paddy's Day the other day. I think I had three or four girls message me about wearing the olive green windbreaker. I was like, I wore it out, I had so many compliments. And I was like, I love the fact you've gone out your way to text me that. Yeah, I guess that's that's one of the kind of differences, I guess, from social selling versus the traditional retail channels that actually people are much more comfortable with just sending a quick DM and almost like they kind of they know you, you're not just a brand name, you're you are Ginny and me, and there's a person behind it. So do you feel like you put yours yourself out there? Are you kind of putting your do you feel like you are the face of the brand? Yeah, I I mean 100%. I feel like I feel like I give off this vibe that I'm really like loud and confident. But if I was like to see someone wearing Ginny Me down the street, I wouldn't say like, oh my god, that's my brand. So I'm quite shy in that sense. But if anyone's to message me, I'm super friendly. I'm like, oh my god, like that's amazing, kiss, kiss, kiss. Like, I'm very unformal in that sense. Very, very chatty. I love it. And then also on like TikTok, like I've got Ginny Me as the name, but it's my own personal TikTok, it's all my friends and whatever. It's not an actual like serious account. I think we've got around 15,000 followers on that. But again, like that's not actually it's not actually business, it's just me messing around with my friends and like a couple of the times, like they're modelling. But anyone, any of my customers who ever wear Ginny Me on TikTok, I'll always repost their, I'll always repost their videos and I'll always comment. And you'll have it on your kind of personal account. So it's a real like window into kind of you and what you get up to and the activities that you're doing and hanging out with your friends, and it makes it feel like you know you're you're part of it. You're one of the, you know, you're part of you and your friends hanging out. Yeah. Because I think a lot of also other business owners just find it so funny when they meet me because they're like, you couldn't be more type B. They're like, the fact you've managed to do this is proves that even right now you should see my setup right now. I can't even show you. Like, I am the most type B person. So when people are like, it is really inspiring knowing that someone who is quite disorganized can actually like do something like this. I'm like, honestly, anyone can do it.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

But yeah, yeah, but I think that just goes and emulates the energy of the brand, doesn't it? You know, and that's I guess that's what you're trying to create. You're like, this is I am the brand, this is me, this is the energy, the kid the you know, the the followers are the brand as well. And I think that is so incredible that you've tapped into that because you can use all that information to influence your next collections and wherever you want to take the brand. And I mean, is that something that you kind of envisioned when you started building the community that you wanted to tap into that? Or is it just kind of all happened all organically?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I think it just happened really organically because I mean I never really had like a vision of what I wanted it to be like. Yeah. So for me, it just happened organically and I wouldn't I wouldn't change it at all. And now you're a few years in, has that changed? Like, what are your ambitions now for the business? I get that all the time. I'm like, honestly, I don't really know what I'm doing tomorrow. But I so I'm 23 at the moment, and all like all of my friends, because we've all just left university together, I think my target market goes from around like 16 year olds to around 26 year olds. So at the moment, all my friends we've all just moved to London, everyone's Like moving into flats and making it all nice. So I think that I've got a vision. This is what I want to do. But then in the next three years, I want to bring out homeware at some point. Again, make sure it's very like in style with Jinny Me and like how we do our stuff. And then in eight years' time, this is my dream is to bring out baby wear. When hopefully we're all settling down. So that so it's like almost it's just it's a personal brand and it's just mirroring you and your life stages. Yeah, your stages of life. Yeah. So I just want it to, I just want to grow with the brand. And I also want like the brand to go with all the customers and like just slowly with you rather than always having to attract this new younger customer. It's interesting what you say about how you feel like your brand is age 16 to 26, because I don't know if you know, but I wouldn't necessarily put myself in that 80 bracket.

unknown 23:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

But I absolutely love it. And I could see myself and I could see my friends wearing it. So I think you've got a wider, a much wider pool than maybe you're giving yourself credit for. And I love everything that your brand stands for. And also love that you're really like quite open about being very disorganized and just going with the flow with this. So my next question, you might sort of just look at me very wide-eyed when I say, So, do you have any content strategies? You know, and how are you kind of keeping your audience engaged, or is it just being you? I have absolutely zero content strategies like absolutely zero. But I have just hired a girl, I've just hired an intern actually to come and help me and get some TikToks. Because the thing is with me, is I feel like I'll do like a month of having loads of content and then I'll just reuse that content for six months. And I'm like, shoot, my customers might be thinking this is really boring because I've seen this like eight times. But yeah, I literally have no content strategies whatsoever. Also, I think on my TikTok, I post a lot of like day in the life is in nothing too funny in me, it's just a chaotic day. But obviously, I have the logo and everyone's like, oh, that's the founder. And then I just think from that everyone just kind of finds it amusing. Yeah, it feels really comfortable with your brand. It's not stuffy, it's super casual, and it's fun, and it's everything you want the brand to kind of emulate, really, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Well, I would hope I would hope to be like that. Yeah, it's almost like you're sort of a following camera then in the background. Like, and it's there's so many brands out there that that put out pre pre-planned content, and you're right, it's stale and boring, and you're just living it each day as it comes, and like what's happened now, and you know, there's so much success to be had for showing the rawness of a brand growing and developing and evolving, and the reality of it because there's so much content out there that's polished up, isn't it? Yeah, reality. So it must be that that is something that is making it so successful. People can relate to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, I think that's the thing, is it it's just relatable? As in, I would want to give off this for Ginny and me to be like all the clean girls to wear it because I'm not like that. And like a lot of clean girls do wear that, and I absolutely love that. I was like, it's really bringing up like the awe of Ginny and me. That's great. As in, I'm and I actually started a YouTube channel, I think it was like a month ago. I think I've got maybe 12 subscribers. But this was on like I've gone on holiday with my friend. Um, we've gone to an all-inclusive. So I made a YouTube and I was like behind the scenes of found of Ginny and me. And I think I got around like 400, 500 views off of YouTube, but then I posted it on TikTok, and I think I got around 6,000. And everyone's just commenting there, laughing, and they're like, she's absolutely nuts. Because it was just like the behind the scenes, it had nothing to do with Ginny and me. It was just me and my friend getting blackout drunk and all inclusive. And I was like, This is what I do when I'm not working. You've clearly got this keen audience on TikTok that wanting to see the shorts, that wanting to see the chaos. Yeah. Maybe less so on YouTube. Would you say that actually TikTok is the main sort of social platform, I guess, for your demographic, the sort of hundred percent. TikTok, I think, is the way forward. I think also if you like hack the algorithm, then you're flying. As in, I've not really hacked the algorithm, I just post whatever and people just think it's funny, I guess. But like TikTok is the way forward. Because again, it's like the for you page. So it's so even if you're getting like a hundred views, if you actually think about it, 100 people in a room, that's a lot of people. But it might only be five actual follow you, and the rest is all just a for you page. So TikTok, I would say, is definitely the way forward. And are you on Instagram as well? Yeah, I'm I think we've got around 23,000 followers on Instagram. So it's still quite a sort of hefty channel for you to be to be active on. Is it less chaotic? Yeah, Instagram's definitely less chaotic. I think I normally just post, I mean, again, all my all my shots are also iPhone camera. So that's what I quite like. Is in I think we did, I mean, we brought out a drop with Neave McKinnon, who is a big influence of the Tartan. So that was the only one which was all professional shots, which I quite liked, because that was a show this was like a one-off drop. Yeah, everything else is Instagram, but it's quite tame my Instagram for sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

And what's been your kind of I guess challenges that you've sort of faced so far in in the journey? Like, what has been the sort of the biggest challenges that you've had? I mean, I think first of all, like having no experience, it has there's been a lot of challenges. Like I've had many days where I have literally cried to my mum and like, I'm I can't do it. And she's like, You're doing so well. So I think I do put a lot of pressure on myself anyway. But I would just I would say growing the brand too quickly, if that makes sense, is in like I started with like absolutely no knowledge. So I think I did, I didn't grow the brand too quickly, but I think it was like there were times where I was just getting so many emails, getting so many orders, getting like just so many DMs, and I was just like getting a bit like I don't know what to do. Like, yeah, I think setting in straight and just making sure I don't like burn myself out was really important for me. And I think at one point, I think it was around like December time, I literally was like breaking point. I was like, I I don't know what to do. And then from there, I got a fulfillment center and they have been great. So they do all my customer emails for me as in I'm always looped into everything, but it's just nice knowing I've got someone who can, I don't have to reply to something and I can see what's going on without me having to stress like what's happening with this, where's the shipment? Because you're wearing all the hats when you're sort of starting a business, aren't you? You are everything you're marketing, your buying, your IT, your customer service, your logistics, yeah, you're you're absolutely doing everything. And how did the kind of like how did you know how to price your product? What what gave you the kind of the gut and have you played around with your price point at all? I didn't really, I mean, I just kind of went off what I would buy for an item. That's literally how I've gone for it. But everything I mean, because I have to play VAT at the moment, but I've not upped my VAT as in I've not even charged my customer VAT because for me, it's like I uh so our jackets at the moment are you know, I think they're 85, I think. But as in if I was to put VAT, there'd be around like 100 marks. So I've said, like I've said, I was like, I will take the hit. As in, I don't want my customers paying£100 for these jackets. So I I'm just going off what I would pay for like all everything I have on TV. It feels like that's just a real gut feeling you've got. You've always got this natural entrepreneur in you because so many of these things that you're talking about and decisions you've made have just been like it just doesn't feel right. Just this is how I feel it should be. Yeah. Do you look at kind of the the rest of the market? Do you kind of like look at your position in terms of market analysis and where your jackets might be sitting in terms of who your kind of competitors might be in that space? You know what? This is so funny. I always tell my friends this quote, and they always say, Shut up, they're like, stop, it's like annoying. But I always think comparison is a thief of joy. Like, I never compare like my jackets to anything else. And I don't know. I think I just have my vision and I kind of look forward, and everything else is kind of like tunnel vision that's on the sidelines. So I don't really like looking to like, yeah, I just kind of go off what my gut instinct says, basically. Yeah, and how you feel. And what's been the kind of proudest moment so far, then the best thing that's happened on this journey? There's been loads to be honest, but I think it I mean, day to life, it's so nice just going outside and being like, I've seen like the my designs on people, and then also like being hit up by like Vogue, Vanity Fair, L, Tatler, so many brands, so many people like reach out to me, and it's so nice, and it's also nice like seeing like so many young girls messaging me, like, I really want to start a brand, and be like, it's so nice people come to me. So, yeah, I think really funnelling, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. I think like all the hard work is now really paid off, I think for sure. So, what took you to Top Draw where we met you? I you know what? It was actually I never was going to do it, but a friend actually worked for the company, they were like, We've been wanting to get you on, like you'd be great. And I was like, Oh, and it was I literally ummed and arred so much. And I actually only decided to do top drawer four days before. Wow, so last minute, like such a turnaround, yeah. So it was literally like I was so unprepared, I had nothing. I had to go on Amazon, order like nails, hammers, everything. So again, it just sums me up as in because my sound was so small, wasn't it? It was it was like a tiny whitewashed booth, yeah, but then you had your product, and I think that that's what spoke it spoke for itself, just seeing a product, and then you being there, the face and the voice of the brand, and just being so chatty and so welcoming and so happy. And you had a successful show. Yeah, I did. It was really good. I mean, I would definitely do it again as well, but yeah, and it was just quite nice again. Like, I had no idea there was this whole retail side, I didn't even know until like my friend who ran the events was like, he was like, I really think you should do it. He was like, we think you'd be great. And I was like, wait, what is what am I actually doing though?

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

And I remember on the it was like an hour before, and he was like, Have you got your pricing and everything for wholesale? And I was like, So he sat with me and he was like, He said, Oh god, he was like, I've messed up getting you on. So he sat with me, he was really great, and we went through pricing and everything. But yeah, because I remember like my leaflets and everything had because I had to like order everything, everything come the night before, and I was like kind of scared. But I mean, yeah, it was a really successful show, it was good.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Was there anybody that kind of stuck out in your mind? I mean, you don't need to name names, but is there any specific I definitely?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

I mean, I still follow a couple of like my neighbours and stuff, um, and they check in for with me, but yeah, it was just nice to meet other brands and also like because when I do pop-ups on the King's Road and stuff, it's all again, we've got a really similar target market. But this is like you've thrown in the deep end with like women who'd have brands for like 30, 40 years, or like new startups, and it was like all different products. So it was just seeing like other people in the industry like you wouldn't normally like find yourself speaking to. Yeah, yeah, it's just an inspirational place sometimes to be in a trade show, isn't it? To see so many other people that are doing similar things to you, but at different points in their journey, and just the variety of different product categories. I know at one point you were like, Look who I'm next to, but you were place next to, I was like, Yeah, but something very similar, literally like also complete opposite to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember like when they I literally was like, Oh my god, and also they that brand has been there for like ages, but it was a European brand, but they had I think it was like 200,000 followers or something, but yeah, it was like very similar, but at the same time, it was not similar at all. Yeah, yeah. In terms of category at first glance, you think, oh god god, they're doing the same as me, but they're doing they're bigger than me. But actually, they had totally different kind of vibe, a completely different sort of target audience, and actually just the way that they were putting themselves out there was very, very different. Yeah, but I was definitely intimidated at the beginning for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

But you soon settled into it, and you are used to doing pop-ups, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

And so pop-ups do again, you're really good at getting that kind of it's that personality across because you get to meet your customers, right? Yeah, have those conversations. Yeah, I absolutely love doing pop-ups, and also anytime I have anyone who works for me who do the pop-ups, it's always followers. So it's also really nice because I get to meet the followers. So whenever I'm hiring, I'll always put it on my story, and like I'll always try and go for the girls who are like have interacted with me before because I'm like, I know that you actually like the brand. Yeah, and like with those girls who've like turned into followers, they're now my friends, so it's really great as well. That's so nice, and you know that they love the brand and they fully believe in it and they back it. Yeah, but they are the brand, it just makes like working as well really fun, especially for them as well. Because I feel like I'm quite chilled anyway. But yeah, so 100%. It's I love doing pop-ups, it's great. I think that's the next thing that I want to do eventually is do a big pop-up for Ginny and me, like my own pop-up. I'm thinking Notting Hill at some point.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

So that's cool. That's the next thing. Would you ever think about doing your own store in in that 10-year plan? I don't think I would ever do, I don't think I'd ever do a store.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

I think I think it's a bit of like, I don't know, I think it's wasting your money. I think I like for me, I said like I've built so much hype over like pre-order, like it's not gonna be here forever. So I think I will only ever do pop-ups, and I think that's the way forward.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

That's sort of a bit like the vision of your brand as well, doesn't it? Because then it's also it's a limited time. It's a limited, you know, time.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

And I know many, I know so many brands that have started who've opened up stores and they've gone so well. But I think for me, like it will just never be in that vision to do that. Yeah. I guess there is such a huge focus on sort of being sustainable and having sustainable products, whether that be materials or whether that be the type of sort of sales that you do. So this kind of made to order is one. What about your fabrics and your kind of your manufacturing process and things like that? Does the kind of is there a sustainability or an eco kind of focus on that at all? So our jackets are 100% polyester. So that was the other thing, is that I really struggled originally of like what uh material to use. So I think we had we went through three different materials, and by the end of it, I was like, polyester um is the one I want to use because it's fully waterproof and rim-proof. So that's what I ended up going with, but it was again trial and error. But we do yeah, made print. So all of our all of our polyester we go through a printing machine. So again, it's literally depending on how many I do for my pre-order, is what we'll do. So there's no waste of fabric.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

I think also it's just you know, it's it's sometimes it's so hard to pick like a fully sustainable um material, right? Because it's just not workable for the end use of the product, it needs to be waterproof, it needs to be windproof. So the fact that you have really honed in on this pre-order side of things, I think is so important for when we have to still use those types of fabrics, right? So yeah, it's yeah, it's it's it's it's a tricky one, but I think it's do you think it's something that's important to your customer?

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Like, is that something that that is, or you know, what are the kind of I guess key considerations would you say for your target market when they're looking at buying a product? Yeah, I mean, I get loads of DMs actually before people buy products, and you're like, is this like eco-friendly, all of that? So I do like a lot of customers as well, especially if like I've got a lot of like hikers and stuff, so everyone's uh very into the um environment environmentally friendly. But wow, so it's not just runners, it's it's people of all kinds of like outdoors activities. Yeah, that a lot of wow. Sorry, I interrupted you then. Um but yeah, I mean on our website we have like a whole section. So our manufacturers um wrote everything out, so that's one there for. So anytime anyone DMs me, I'm like, we've got a big section, everything on there. So people can as one of the top key considerations then, or what what are the kind of the sort of deciding factors would you say, sort of for that sort of 16 to 26? Is it price? Is it quality? Is it fashion? Is it kind of that kind of like trend, or is it could just or is it wearing something that's a bit different or a well-known brand, or is it the eco side? Like what would you say are the sort of top three? I guess I would say the top three is definitely the fashion side of it, as in I think it is really iconically known for the flared um sleeves. And I mean, I because I've originally asked, like, is this just gonna be a trend? But I mean, well, it's been trending for two years now. So I think now it's a stake on your product, it's like a it's like your USP, yeah, yeah, 100%. So I think fashion a hundred percent. Also pricing, as in Danza Mada, they do a lot of raincoats, but theirs are all I think like double the price, as in theirs are looking at like around 180. So I think pricing is in because at the time, like I was a uni student when I started this. So if I was buying a jacket, that is in that's what I also I also think is great, is in jackets, you just re-wear them so much, as in you have a rotation of like five jackets, yeah, and you will just wear them loads. So I think for the price of being 80 pounds, is in you are like wearing it as a lot. Your price per wear is actually really good. Yeah, if it's like a going out top, you'll maybe wear it like two or three times, but like a jacket, it is a staple. But yeah, so I say price and fashion as well are like the main two about two ones, yeah. That's really, really um, I guess that's really key that you've mentioned the fact that it is outerwear, you are more naturally comfortable in wearing multiple times, whereas there is almost this like stigma of wearing the same top. I mean, t-shirts I think are fine. You can wear the same t-shirt, that's cool. But there is something about wearing a certain top or something or a certain dress um multiple times that people have been like, but outerwear, you're good. You wear it, yeah, you wear it every day, and no one would be like, Oh, she's still wearing the same jacket. Like, no, it's a given. She's wearing her jacket. No, 100%. And I think they are stable pieces. I had an influence actually posted a video, and I think it had around like 300,000 follow uh views, and it was a like a collage of like her wearing the polka dot um windbreaker, and it was like a caption, it was like you always wear the same jacket, and she made a big thing. She was like jacket, so she was like clothes to be made to be worn. And I remember everyone was like, We love this. And I was like, I love how you use my jacket as well. Yeah, it's such a staple. Again, uh the running girls, like they wear that as their staple running jacket, so it's quite nice to see as well. Yeah, and as you say, you could have four to five in the different designs depending on what you're gonna wear, but you wear them continuously every time you go out. I mean, and do you notice a pattern in kind of I guess seasonality because it is a coat, a raincoat, or do you think actually it's normal year round, it's the seasonal because it's quite lightweight? Yeah, so I just assume that they would have been uh for like winter, but then well, so I don't actually go to festivals, I can't camp, like it's not for me. But like, yeah, it's just not for me. All my friends, whenever they're at festivals, you they I get spammed of like photos and videos of all the girls wearing them as festival wear. So it is like, and also with like the weather in the UK, like it's always hit or miss, but like so. We've got like the runners who wear them all year round, we've got winter time, everyone wearing them to the pubs, like social, and then again festival wear. So it is like three of like all year round, basically, and it all just loops into loops. And do you see it sort of sort of you see that you get a demand? Obviously, you're sort of always like pre-order, but do you see it in those numbers that you have certain times of the year where it gets a little bit? I feel like it's just all like very it's a dream that is an absolute dream for a brand to have consistent numbers all year round. Yeah, yeah, I am so grateful. I mean, again, if it wasn't for like my friends and family, I would have never been able to like start this, but like, yeah, I definitely don't take it for granted for sure. And what would be you've given lots of advice through our conversation, which has been so great, you've been so open. But what would be sort of like the one last piece of advice that you would want to give to anybody that's looking to start a brand or or to try something a bit different that's out of their comfort zone? I would literally say, do not think about what anyone else thinks. As in when I started Ginny and me, I remember all the boys in our friend group, like, oh, like your little girly brand. And I just laugh and I was like, and I never once was thought, oh my god, do you think anyone's judging me? Because I think if I thought, if I once thought if someone judging me, I would not be sat here right now. So I think just do it, like don't look back. And at the end of the day, I feel like people always are gonna judge you until you actually get successful anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Just keep going, pedal it. And if you've got a you've got an idea and you've got a passion for it and you've got gut feeling, then go. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Oh, great, I love that. Yeah, well, we're so excited to keep following what what comes what comes next, you know, and uh seeing you, you know, dominate the social scene even further and keep providing those runners those jackets because yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

So I'm guessing there's something big coming up for the London Marathon in April. Yes. So we've got like I said, we've got two uh so we've got two influencers bringing so we bring out two jackets, same jackets but in two different colours and also running shorts. So that's that's the next thing for the windbreakers. But yeah. Oh, I love it. I'm so excited for you. Wow, stay in touch and best of luck with everything. Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Kate, are you a drama queen? No, drama just makes things interesting. That's true. All these thoughts and opinions are our own and based on our own experiences working for a wide variety of retailers. These are all in the hope to entertain and educate and not to reflect negatively on any place we currently or have previously worked.