S8 E10: Building Brands That Stand the Test of Time with Jodie Blake CMO at Manolo Blahnik

This week's episode is a special one  co-host Lynsey is joined by her old friend and former London College of Fashion classmate, Jodie Blake, now CMO at Manolo Blahnik. What starts as a nostalgic trip down memory lane (lemon poppy seed muffins from Starbucks, high heels to lectures, and getting the tube one stop instead of walking) quickly turns into one of the most insightful conversations we've had on the show.

Jodie's career is a masterclass in building from the ground up. She started out as a press assistant at Office Shoes during its golden era of big collabs with Nike, Converse and Dr. Martens, before moving through a series of agencies - culminating in a decade at The Communication Store, where she worked across Versace, Max Mara, Acne Studios and more, doing 42 shows in a single fashion season. From there she went in-house at Self-Portrait to build on their communications function, before being headhunted to join Manolo Blahnik as Head of Communications - a role that evolved into her appointment as CMO almost two and a half years ago.

We get into what it really means to market a luxury product today, how Manolo Blahnik has spent 22 years fighting to reclaim their trademark in China (spoiler: they won - one of only two cases ever, alongside Michael Jordan), the story behind the Birkenstock collab that sold out in 12 hours, the upcoming Balenciaga collaboration, and why being headline sponsor of the V&A's Marie Antoinette exhibition felt like the brand's most natural home.

Jodie also shares what it was like to move from agency to in-house, the realities of stepping into a leadership role, and why working closely with buyers and the commercial team is central to everything her team does.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Stay true to your brand values - even when it's hard. Manolo Blahnik famously refused to make trainers despite enormous commercial pressure and buyer demand. Jodie explains how staying uncompromisingly true to your identity is what builds longevity - 56 years, fully privately owned, with Manolo still designing every single shoe. Chasing trends can dilute a brand to the point where customers no longer know what you stand for.
2. Break down silos and ask questions beyond your remit. Whether you're in PR, buying, merchandising or logistics, understanding how other parts of the business work gives you a fuller picture - and makes you better at your own job. Jodie credits this curiosity as a key driver of her own career progression, from agency PR specialist to CMO. The "holy trinity" of communications, commercial and merchandising teams working in lockstep is something she views as non-negotiable.
3. Make people feel something. In a time of economic uncertainty, consumers are more considered than ever about what they buy. The brands that win are those creating genuine emotional connections - through storytelling, community, experiential moments, and products that carry real personal meaning. From a grandmother leaving envelopes of money for her granddaughters to buy Manolo Blahniks for their weddings, to a Birkenstock collab born out of shared values rather than commercial logic, Jodie makes the case that emotion is the most powerful marketing tool there is.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello and welcome to Buying and Beyond, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of retail buying.

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We're Kate and Lynn, and we are talking all things retail buying and beyond with real people in retail.

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If you want to feel more connected, more confident, and more supported in your buying career, head to our homepage for more information on how to join our club.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

The future of buying isn't just smarter, it's more connected. Now let's get into today's episode. So this week's episode is a really special one for me as we're joined by someone I've actually known since the very beginning of our journeys into industry. Jodie and I first met at the London College of Fashion where we studied together and probably spent just as much time socialising as we did in lectures or the sample rooms. And honestly, for anyone that knows Jodie, she was born to be in PR and communications. Since then, Jodie's gone on to build an incredible career in fashion marketing and PR. She's worked agency side for the communications store, brand roles including self-portrait, and is now CMO at Manila Blonick. Her experiences span Global Luxury Brands, leading marketing strategy, brand storytelling, and product positioning at the very highest level. So we're going to get into finding out about how she built her career from university to industry and how she found her place within PR and marketing and what it really takes to market a product in today's luxury landscape, along with her experience working with buyers, stepping into leadership, and what excites her most about her role today. So, Jodie, welcome. Thanks for joining us. God, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

That was that was a very nice introduction. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh my goodness, thank you. And that's what happens when you're doing it with a friend, right? Your ex and ex.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah, no, I can't believe we like started such a long time ago. And like thinking back to university days is just hilarious thought now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

It's it definitely feels like it's very bizarre. It feels like a lifetime ago in some ways, but then I'll walk down Oxford Street or go past like John Prince's Street, and it feels like you know, a week ago that we were trying to find the neatest bar to there, of which there are not many that are good. Or I still think I feel like a pang of sort of sadness when I see that Davies Street, which was the site that I really liked, is now Crossrail and the Elizabeth Line. Um, which is which is a bit crazy to think that a whole sort of tube line underground situation, everything has been built. I don't feel like I should have been out of university for that long for those things to have happened. Um we did also have a campus in um Shepherd's Bush as well, and so the full construction of Westfield phases one and two. And again, I'm like, how has this all happened? I mean, I should I shouldn't be at the other side of this yet, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

But no, it's not my fondest memory is that remember, every every time one of us would arrive at the lecture first, we'd always get each other a tea and a lemon poppy seed muffin. Oh, lemon and poppy seed muffin, I know, from um from Starbucks.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

And actually, there it wasn't even that long ago. I like had like the sudden craving for this lemon and poppy seed muffin. I Starbucks, and they've changed the recipe. And so devastated. So yeah, never to be had again. There was another dream taken away alongside Davy Street. So yeah, so that that was gone. But yes, we did used to do that and um kind of muddle our way through the days, and it was it was like an interesting setup for uni, I suppose, because um, well, first of all, I am Scottish, obviously, um, this subtle accent. And I had moved away from home and really didn't have any friends when I, you know, first came to London. So actually, like meeting like an amazing community of people was in was incredible. Um, but we didn't have a kind of usual university setup because it wasn't a campus university. So, in terms of how you were meeting people, it was quite different, and I think it was quite a lot of you had to make that independent effort. Like you weren't all just put into a place or there wasn't a student union that everyone just went to, so you naturally met each other. Or I mean maybe there was and we just didn't go. But I don't like there wasn't an obvious one.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I think it was in Elephant and Castle, and we just never ventured over there.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

No, yeah, it wasn't our vibe. Well, it was it it was far and it wasn't near where we were studying ever. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't really have made sense. So I think, yeah, that was I think that was definitely a bit of a it was great in some ways because I think it like makes people sort of work a bit harder and really find their people and find it. And actually the funny thing is, Lindsay included, and a group of girlfriends that I've still got to this day are all from that time at university. And actually Lindsay and I were the only ones that were in the same, the the class was sort of like split into like two halves, and everyone else was was actually in the other kind of cohort or the other group, but I think we kind of all got together and lots of them still work in the industry today, actually, more so in the buying side, but we've all remained you know friends throughout, and I think possibly because you really had to find those people and build like genuine, like quite strong relationships, um which I thought was great, and so it's kind of like lifelong friends, and I think that was kind of mostly my fondest memory, really, from from university, and also it was a great college and it was good to go there and it had a great name. I think we had we had a course, our course was fashion design and marketing, but I think it was a very new course at the time. Were we the first year of it, Lindsay? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

No, I think so. It's the first or the second. And do you remember we had that amazing lecturer, Sally? Sally Baines? Sally Bane.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

She was incredible. And I think, but it was quite noticeable maybe that it was the the early stages of that course. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it was maybe you know, I think you go to University of the Arts and London College of Fashion, and I think that they were trying to introduce new courses. I think maybe with a slight more side of business on it as well, which I was always quite interested in, but that whether or not the course was kind of fully developed at that time. But but I suppose like on reflection now, and I was also quite stubborn, so that didn't, you know, help matters, but I think I think on reflection now, what it did do was really gave you a sense of independence and a sense of having to, it definitely was a big step away from you know being at school. I went to a very small school, I went to an old girls' school, and it was, you know, it was like it was really, you know, I think it was 300 people from well, this is Scottish terms, but from primary one to sixth year, was there was 300 people in the entire school. So then, and then I was sort of like, bye, going to London and kind of and and then you're in this, you know, the what I thought then and actually do now is kind of like the epicenter of so much. But yeah, you really had to, you know, get stuck in and you couldn't just rely on other people to steer you through. It was it it was very a-independent learning and networking and socializing and building community was was kind of on you, which I thoroughly enjoy, and it probably is why I did the job that I do. But but it was hard as well, you know, it wasn't you know that easy, um, particularly initially, and even just finding your way about. I think one of the things that Lindsay and I laugh about quite a lot, and some other people uh that I went to university with, is that for probably about the first four months of university, I was like very fortunate. I had a flat that was very, very central that was uh it was actually one of my dad's it was a company kind of flat by God that got to stay there. And it was on South Moulton Street, which is obviously by Bond Street Chip Station, it was right next to it was right next to Davies Street, still managed to be late, which was exceptional. Um but we obviously had to also go to John Princess Street, which is an Oxford circus. Now, I had been to London loads of times before I went to university there. I always wanted to live in London. I used to get my dad to take me down for weekends or when he was working, but I didn't really have the context to where everything was. And I think I remember being with Lindsay one day and a guy, Ed, that we went to university with as well. And I was walking down to get onto the tube at circus, and they were like, Where are you going? And I was like, home. They were like, Jodie, it's one stop. It takes you longer to but in my head, I I just thought everything was, you know, London's big, it's all really for about four months. I've been getting the tube back and forth every day, not with without like also I didn't realize that you could get things like oyster cards or like, you know, like the week pass or whatever. So Lindsay was like, You're paying like five quid every single time for a journey that's actually taking you longer on the tube, which you hate. Uh and then I was like, Oh, right. So those were kind of some of the fun learnings. Like these are the things that people at university taught me. And then, yeah, it was actually about a four-minute walk.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

It's these things though, it's putting yourself out of your comfort zone, it's having to make something like you're having to put yourself out there to like speak to people, to meet people, and learning through doing. Yeah, so important. And even if it is making mistakes, honestly, I felt so stupid.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

I was like, sorry what? Because in my head, every tube stop in London, you know, was like quite far away. I was like, you know, that must be, you know, like a 20-minute walk or something. And you can say what an idea. But anyway, though that was that was a key learning, you know, with the big portfolio and all the trying to go down the stairs. I mean, on you wouldn't choose to do it if you didn't, but they're in the and the high heels we used to wear back then as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Like always in high heels. What were we thinking? Always in high heels. Yeah, I mean going to uni now.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Now I mean, well, now we do wear high heels quite a lot given my job. But well, I actually also wear a lot of flats. But when I'm not at work, I think I probably live in trainers or like very comfortable clothes. Maybe that's the COVID effect as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah, definitely. Is that the same with you, Kate? Did you guys get dressed up or was it the different because you were in a campus?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

There was an element of you wanted to still wear something that, but I think it waned quite quickly when you know you'd had a late night and then you just won to roll out of your bed into your class and then finish your class and roll back into your bed. So I think like for the first term, we definitely were like wanted to wear like the cute clothes, but then after that, no, it was reserved for like nights out, and otherwise we would just like roll in in leggings and uh I think mine was like leggings, uggs, and like a big Lomcardi.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Oh, the big Lomcardi days and the differences because Lindsay, remember when you well actually that was kind of after uni, but remember when you were at Accessorize, and then we got to the point where you had all of the jewellery, but like it was as if we thought it was acceptable to wear all of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any given time. Like the like we took Boho Chic to like another level, yeah, and it was it was quite exceptional. And then you would go out and you would like, you know, maybe have a few drinks, you go for dinner, you would get home, and then you'd be trying to untangle these like 22 necklaces with like and bangles all the way up to your elbows, feathers and dream catchers and such like on them, and you'd be like, Oh my god, you would give up halfway through and just wake up in the morning and think I'm ready, I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Exactly. I mean, many a time we went to bed in our clothes and jewelry. Anyway, we'd throw this entire podcast of memories from university. What we'd love what we love to ask our guests is just to like run through a bit of a whistle stop tour of of of your career and like you know what uh when you left uni, like why why you got into PR marketing and and also obviously a lot a lot of our listeners are retail buyers, so any kind of like interactions with buyers and how you found it and or from your side of the table, really.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

I think that I I think I always knew that I wanted to get into the businessy side of fashion and definitely not the design side. That was short-lived at university for sure. And that was like my I but you know what? I really appreciate it, and actually watching other people create, I find completely fascinating. And I think when someone's really meant to do that, you can just see that they've got such a, you know, their own hand in something in terms of their own creative output. It almost doesn't matter really what the brief is, you can very clearly see that it's by that person and that it's got their handwriting and et cetera, on it. And I think that that's definitely not something from a design point of view that I think I necessarily have on that front. I think I can appreciate lots of different things and I've got my preferences. And I even remember, I suppose I've always been a bit like if I've liked something or experienced something that was good or have found a new brand or anything like that, I would be the first person to go and tell everyone like the buy-in of it. And actually, I even do that to this day. You know, I'll find something new, and I've like told everyone, and they're like, Are you doing the PR for that brand? Like, what be done? So I think that I did always know, and and I suppose even not that I ever worked with, nor would he let me, my dad. My dad owned advertising agencies, and I was always quite fascinated in that world and sort of definitely the the aid of creativity in terms of bringing something that's already existing to life and the storytelling around that. So I've always found that really engaging and like quite exciting. And sometimes I actually think with creatives as well, not all creatives, but they're amazing at the creative part, but actually they maybe don't often maybe have the confidence or maybe confidence is not the right word, but they don't really know how to communicate it or to get that out. And I always like love honing in on like when you see that and you're like, oh no, it's this, it's this, it's this, it's you know, and I think that that's really exciting. So when I left university, I went, I got my first job actually. I mean, full circle in the shoe world. My first job was office shoes as the press assistant, which I absolutely loved. It was it was kind of the heyday of office shoes as well. It's when they were doing all the big collabs with like Converse and Nike and Adidas and Dr. Martin's, and they had their own collection as well. And from a kind of PR point of view, I mean I was the assistant, I was packing boxes half the time, but I remember this. It was just really fun because we did, you know, these big elaborate prestigs that were always like themed, so it'd be like a chocolate factory theme, and we would have, you know, full production and go like like you know, and then we would do like a circus theme. And I remember we did one in a place called Suk Medina, which I don't think is there anymore. It was in Covent Garden, and it was sort of we had tarot card readers, we had a snake. There was a woman dancing with a snake. I mean, it was nuts, like, and it was just but I just found that whole like bringing things to life and like the surprise and delight element of what you can do through communications really exciting and how you can elevate products or like give it a story behind it. And then from office, I went to work at kind of a series of different PR agencies, smaller ones, sort of bigger ones. But I think that kind of culminated over a few years of me going to work at an agency called the Communication Store, which again was like the most incredible experience. I think that that's really where I managed to like hone a lot of communication skills and really learn from some amazing people who are still so influential in the industry. I had amazing clients like they had like Versace, we had Max Mara, Ferro, Zenia. There was like a huge beauty team though, as well. There was lifestyle where you know we did everything from you know Barry's boot camp to leading hotels of the world. You know, it was like it it felt like a fully integrated agency. It was really big as well. We did fashion weeks like crazy. I think I used to do, I think one season we did about 42 shows. And I was on the first, the first flight to New York and then the last train back from Paris, and it sort of done them all. And we did do that for a long time, but it was just amazing because, you know, one minute you'd be doing like the Acne Studios show in Paris, and then it would be like, well, actually rather about Oscar de la Renta in New York first, and then you know, Acne Studios. And I think for me what was always really interesting is seeing the different creativity and but still being able to appreciate that, and like also finding the people in the communities that that that had a connection to that in some way, and also particularly if you work in agency, there's you know some that overlap, and then there's some that are completely different, you know, ends of the spectrum. So it even from a communications point of view is like who are the pool of people that are going to be interested in kind of X, Y, and Z, and like who are going to be, you know, completely that's not their vibe at all, and actually building those relationships. And I think that's always something that I've that I've really, really enjoyed. And then Self-Portrait was actually a client of mine at the communication store who I had, I really liked the brand. And I had met Han at an event, and he was kind of looking for a new agency, and he also knew another girl at the agency as well, and he came in for a meeting, and then we ended up winning the business. And we opened like the first store for them in Albemall Street in London, and actually had taken did a big event at the old Central St Martin's in Holborn, like the kind of that building that was all we did like a huge event there, which was incredible, and I thought this brand's really cool and it's got some legs to it. And I, and by that point, I'd been an agency probably for about 10 years, and I built like a huge portion of my career there, and they were looking, they didn't have a big internal team at all, they didn't have an internal communications team whatsoever. And he had said, Would you consider coming up to head up our communications team and building a team and still keeping agencies? Because you know, I've even now at Manola Blanc still got global agencies, but we have an advanced team, and so I had to have a conversation with my boss at the time because there's a few rules around you can't exactly. But I had sort of like planned it out, and they had, you know, they were actually they had you know agreed to stay with the agency for like a minimum of two years, and there was like a bit of negotiation. Anyway, I was allowed to go and do it, and it was an amazing experience. I mean, I tell you what, it was a bit of a I think the hardest bit about it, and I think it was not moving in-house at all. I think it was moving in-house, having to completely build a team, having to completely build systems and processes and everything, because none of that was there. It was also then I was the client side of an agency that I'd worked with for a really long time. So that was like a shift in dynamic, and that was quite new.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Was that quite nice? Because you like you could cool the shots because you're the client.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yes, and no, but I think obviously I respected all of those people a lot, and they're also very dear friends. So it's always like, you know, that thing of you know, we were peers at one point, and I don't know. It's it was, you know, and they were always great, and there was never anything bad in in that relationship. They were always very supportive of me and also making that jump, and you know, they and it went both ways, you know. I knew how good an agency they were, so I think you know it balanced out quite well. But but yeah, that was definitely, and I think it was then taking on more of, you know, I really was mainly like a good PR, but it was mainly like on the PR side, and then that was really when all the marketing had to really come into play, of which I knew and I had done parts of it. It's not like I wasn't aware of that side of things, and I worked very closely with marketing teams from all of the different brands that I worked with, but often they're based in-house, or there's maybe a marketing agency if you're thinking about big campaigns that are rolling out, or you're thinking about digital marketing or retail marketing and those sorts of things. So at Self Portrait, then I had to take all of that on. So it was a bit more of a I know that I know how this all fits into the jigsaw, and I know all of these puzzle pieces, but I need to sort of go back and retrain myself a bit and actually start strategizing and looking at the bigger picture. I kind of also taking my foot off the gas a little bit on the PR side where it's come, it was very comfortable for me, but by that point I'd built a team, and then you've got to let those people that you've hired, you know, go off and do that job and you know, take a step back and look at yeah, bigger picture and strategy and and also how all of those parts come together. So you're more orchestrating things as opposed to being the doer anymore.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah, and being in that day-to-day, yeah. You're the one that's leading from the front, you're the one that's making those decisions and saying what we do, when we do it, and how we do it.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

And also it was even on the agency front, you know, people coming to me for the approvals before when I was kind of going to like the brand before, being like, hi, I think we should do this, and they'd be like, Okay, and you sort of get that sense of security from that. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh, that's that's me now. It's all on my head. So it's kind of on you if it doesn't, you know, if it doesn't go right. And I think it's it's an interesting thing actually about, you know, it's funny now, you know, that people want to get promoted. Of course they do. Or morseen your title. So they want this, they want to take on this responsibility. And it's always funny. And I've been fortunate enough to be in companies for a long time and always really try to promote people's growth and having that. But it is always a funny journey to see, you know, how much people want these things and then the reality shift and then the change and what that actually means to your job and what it means to give up things that you actually really enjoy doing because you can't do it all anymore. That is is the truth. So yeah, so that was interesting. And then I was there for about a year and a bit, which was amazing. And I set all of that up and it was great. But I feel like it was do you know what it was a contemporary brand, it was still quite new. There was, there definitely was maybe not the structure that I had been used to in other places because TCF is a very established agency. There was like 200 people that worked there. You know, it was it was a kind of well-oiled machine. And I think that it's a boat. I like lit, I kind of like set them up for success, like brought in the team, did all of those things. I mean, we did some incredible like KOL trips to like Malaysia because that's where Han was originally from, and like amazing content. And like it was that was an amazing opportunity for me, really, to start of like, yeah, bringing those puzzle pieces together and creating kind of campaign moments. But then the opportunity at Manolo Blanc came up, and someone said to a journalist actually said to me, You kind of can't really say no to Manolo. And you can you can, and I think you know, for me, he I mean, you know, the business is still a family-run business. Manolo owns 100% of it. We don't have a design team. Manolo designs every single shoe still to that day. Incredible. With our CEO, Christina Blanek, who is his niece. So, you know, it's just, and he's in the office every day. He's just like an absolute icon and the most, I don't know, like intelligent, forward-thinking person that I know, but also has every past reference under the sun and like speaks about 10 languages. And you can just, you know, you know, he'll he'll start speaking to me in Italian and then in Spanish, and I'll be like, back to the English. And he's like, Oh yeah, sorry. You know, it's just like he's so fast at everything, and it's just amazing. So so yeah, I went there as the head of communications, and that kind of encompassed. So that's like press and VIP, uh, all the marketing and events, VTM marketing, that side. I do a lot with like the e-comm side of the business as well. And then content, so all brand content, campaigns, we've got an in-house content team and all of that side of things. So that was amazing. And I did that role for about four years. And then the CMO that I used to report into, who was great, but she had got a new opportunity and was leaving the business. And I was in Paris, it was funny, we were in Paris together, and I remember her saying, Oh, when you get back off the Eurostar, she was like, Can you come into the office? But we were together, but she was leaving a bit earlier than me. Can you come into the office? Because Christina who's her CEO wants to like have a quick catch-up. And I was kind of like, you know, normally when you come back from a trip, I mean it was like four o'clock in the afternoon, I would have like gone home and you know, whatever for the rest of the day. And I was like, Oh gosh, right, okay. And they sat me down and they said, you know, Carly's got any opportunity, she's leaving. And I was like, Oh gosh, like, and I was actually quite shocked. And then I thought, you know, they were gonna say, so this is kind of the plan of action, and we're looking for someone and whatever. And I remember Christina said to me, So we'd love to offer you the opportunity to be our CMO. Um, and this was like a Thursday, and she was like, So if you could just let me know on like Monday. And I just remember being sat there like, What? I was like, and you know, I was so thrilled about it, but also I was like, like, I would yeah, quite overwhelmed, I suppose. And this is big, yeah, and thankful and so grateful for the opportunity and and actually quite touched. I remember feeling quite emotional about it, which as Lindsay will tell you is not my strong point.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I'm like this emotional when you at your lip stuff. Quite pragmatic. Quite pragmatic.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

And I and I just I was like, gosh, like it was I suppose not the pressure in a good way, but you know, the fact that that both Christina Manolo had sort of thought that I was up to the challenge. And you know, I'm quite a bit younger than a lot of my peers as well. It would have been so easy for them to bring in, you know, a sort of CMO veteran has done all the gigs, yeah, whatever. And actually, I thought I really need to step up to the plate here and you know, get the team on side and also promote within to replace my role. So, yeah, that was almost two and a half years ago now, and best decision I've made going there.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

So, yeah, that's uh well, not that short, but a kind of whistle-stop to where it's yeah, and then I suppose that's the testament to you know, you say Manolo is very forward thinking and you know, wanting to do new things, and like you know, you obviously proved yourself amazingly well as head of communications and they want to keep that fresh energy going.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

So, you know, like I think so, and I think also when you work for like a family business as well, there's so many nuances to working for family business versus something else that's quite corporate because you are working with a family at the end of the day and you don't need to do things in a really corporate way. And you know, our systems and processes are maybe slightly different, but it's actually really great because we've got the flexibility to be able to make those decisions and not have to follow like maybe a more traditional framework. But I think also maybe people coming in from that background into that world is maybe harder for them to get their head around. So I think, you know, I knew the family really well, I knew the business well, those foundations were set. That didn't change at what level I was at. It was more just a case of you know, stepping up and being more. And I suppose that's again like, you know, my job's very different now. Like, yes, I'm CMO, and of course I do PR, marketing and communications, and that's my speciality within the business. But so much of my time is spent with our senior leadership team, and that's on everything and anything, you know, that's about new commercial openings, logistics, how we're getting, you know, product to different markets, how you know, it it's that it's a very different role now, and also a lot about, you know, we've got a foundation, so a lot of like the charity side of things, about business growth generally and strategy planning and budgeting. But I've got an amazing team and kind of heads off and all the in New York and in London and extensive teams in about 20 agencies that we work with globally. So but again, you know, you're really taking it. I definitely don't do my life is no longer I'll go for a press breakfast, which actually doesn't really exist in the same way that it used to anyway. But I think what's amazing about being in-house, I suppose to agency trains you so well, like you become a bit of a machine, and I think what it gives you is the adaptability to be able to work with different people, different products, have a really good roster of, you know, if someone says, Oh, who would a good photographer be for this kind of thing? You're like, ah, I worked with such and such, it would be great for this. You know, it gives you it, you're very well-rounded in terms of people you can tap into. I think that what in-house allows you is this like connection to the full business. So from like start to finish, if you think about it as like, well, if you were thinking about it as a collection or or or you know, just generally what you're doing is is a business, you've got all of the touch points there and you you have a fuller understanding of what's going on, and also I think can probably be make a bit more impact or change because you're integrated within the business and you'll understand so many more of the functions. And I think you know, that probably and for this, the nature of this in terms of like the buying side of things. I think that's something that, you know, I spend actually quite a lot of time with buyers. I mean, we do market, yeah, because we do market four times a year, and all of the buyers will come in, and I'll work with our commercial teams on okay, who is gonna do an exclusive, like who are we gonna do maybe exclusives with? How, for example, we did an amazing, like exclusive cap show with like my Treza and spent a lot of time with their buying team. Like, what does this look like? What's it gonna be? How do we storytell it? How do we bring this to life? Then their their comms team comes in as well, who are fantastic. And actually, we did this amazing sort of Riviera French kind of raffia, gorgeous cap show collection with them. We then did a huge event in the south of France for like 90 people, like big dinner, beach club, brought in like lots of their top clients as well, and lots of the top Nova customers. I had done pre-sales with a lot of them through the personal shopping team. So it's like actually the full journey of which, you know, those kind of conversations in buying appointments essentially are often like the genesis of some of these ideas and some of the bigger storytelling piece that I need to do, and actually that makes up a lot of the work that my team do because then that creates content for a period of time, that creates, you know, KOL or ambassador relationships, it's dinner moments, it's bringing community together. So I think, you know, it's really important that we've got a really strong relationship with buyers and the buying team, and we've got such a strong, I think the commercial team and the sort of communications team at Manola Blanc work incredibly close, closely. And actually, also the merchandising team as well. So I think it's like those kind of like three are like the kind of holy trinity of people that need to speak together all the time because we also need to be led by, you know, what product is coming in, where is it available, in which territory is it available? Because you know, it's all good and well like picking something that we like to like go on and on and on about it, but can people buy it? Is it in store? Of course, we're a commercial business, but we're not a commercially driven business. I think that like decisions aren't made based on we're gonna sell loads of this and it's money, money, money. It's really not like that at all. It comes from like a genuine place of creativity, of passion. Like Manolo and Christina are so particular about product that they put out. Like we like we don't make trainers, for example, because Manolo doesn't like trainers. And actually, there was a big moment where every single brand, luxury brand, were making sneakers and all like really expensive sneakers, and there was a massive market for us, potentially for us, and that you know, buyers were asking us, like, please can we have this and whatever, but it's not genuine to the brands. Yeah, we own we own our main factory as well and a lot of our supply chain. You know, they're craftsmen and artisans that specialise in making the shoes that Manolo has made with them for you know 40 plus years, yeah. It's not about oh yeah, okay, just chuck in a trainer because it I think it it devalues the brand if it if there's no kind of authenticity to it. So and it's so it's about having that conversation with Barries as well sometimes, and like we get why you would want this from us and we understand that that's selling well. But actually, as a brand that's not just there for the commercial success all the time, we're like we understand if you know we're a slower seller for a period of time, knowing that fashion is cyclical and comes back around and people know what they're coming to Manolo Blanco for. We'll always know that that's what they're coming to us for, and and that we need to be quite strong about that and keep that storytelling and that the heritage and you know it protects the legacy of the business ultimately because otherwise you can just diversify so much that no one comes to you for anything because they don't really know what you are anymore. So, yeah, and I think but you know, the b buying team I probably speak to well, at least four times a year for for market appointments, but even more so than that, we're doing quite a few exciting capsule collections at the moment, and then we do, you know, maybe do pop-ups or dinners or events in cities where we maybe don't have stores, but we work with someone like Ineta Porte, where they've got a great EIC community in a specific, you know, area of the US or whatever where we can bring lots of people together and celebrate in that way. But you know, that all starts with conversations with buyers about a what their customers are looking for from our brand, like is there a capsule that they've really got in mind, colourways, like what could we do with them to bring something to life where it's uh an amalgamation of their brand, the brand being if it's like a multi-brand or whatever, their brand and our brand, and actually speak to their customers directly and in a way that's unique and personalized to them. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Just being really distinctive, and as you say, not jumping on trends. I think that's the key thing. And I think far too many brands do jump on trends, whether that is through the pressure to just, well, everyone's doing it, so you need to do it too, or whether it's people are nervous, they want to be, you know, if that's what the that's where the money is, they're chasing that those kind of commercials, or you know, it doesn't sound like you're a volume driver, you're about kind of your positioning, your placement product is really important to you, and you're really clear on your true values, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

And I think values are something that completely drives our business, like our brand values. And actually, there's Christina's always like, we kind of like this, and well, there's a guy called Simon Sinek, and it's like a thing that's like start with the kind of the why, and actually, and so she told me about ages ago, and it's something that we kind of look to as a business generally. It's like, why are we doing something? And if the reason is ever like commerciality, it's like, well, we're not doing it, then like that's ridiculous. And even big collaborations that we've done in the past, I think people like presume that I don't know that they're commercial collaborations or that we've paid for certain collaborations. Like we did quite a few seasons with Rihanna, who had just called Manolo and said she really wanted to make shoes with him, so there was no like she came to the showroom and they would sit on the floor and do sketches and then it came to- I love that. Yeah, crazy. And then we did a bit organic. Yeah, and can you I mean, honestly, like having tea and Rihanna and like the whole thing, it's just and then we did Birkinstock, which was incredible because well, Birkinstock at the time was family-owned, it was before LFMH had bought them, but actually by the time we launched it had been acquired. But that's kind of where the genesis of it started. But interestingly, so the only other shoes that Manola wears are Birkenstocks, he's like a big gardener, and they had asked him to be in one of their main campaigns, which was called the Personality Campaign. And him and Christina were in it together and they got shot by an amazing photographer in our store in Chelsea on Old Church Street in their own Birkinstocks. And anyway, then the convert, and Christina's also half German, her father's German, and then they started kind of, you know, speaking about our brands. And I think something that we really stand for is, you know, comfort, staying kind of true to our values and you know how we make the artisans, like the artists, the craftspeople, you know, being really, really true to that, being kind of uncompromising in that, actually, in all honesty, and kind of being this family-led business. And actually, whilst from you know, an outside eye, Birkinstock seems like a completely different sort of product, actually, they've been very true to their product and their design forever. The focus on comfort is like essentially what a Birkin stock is made for, and the craftsmanship and the quality they own their factory that they produce in. So, really, although it's two different sides of the spectrum, but like the values are aligned, and actually that's what was really interesting. And so that was an amazing collaboration. And I think that I mean the first drop of that sold out in 12 hours. I was actually on holiday when it launched, and Bowena, who's in my team, who's like my my global head of comms, had called me and I was sort of on the beach and she went, All good with Birkin stock so far. We're just gonna need to take out all the wind installations. And I'm kind of looking at they've been in for two hours. She was like, you know, sold out. She said it's like it's good. So I was like, Oh, okay. So that was great. Wow. I know it was crazy. And I mean, they were like expensive for Birkinstocks. It was a Manolo Birkenstock, obviously, but you know, it was and then I remember lots of people seeing it like the resale market as well, like on Stock X. I mean, as if a Manolo Blanco has ever featured on Stock X before, it was quite quite hilarious. But so that was great. And then we've recently just done a collaboration with Balenciaga, which is incredible, and that goes into stores in May. But again, you know, Christopher Balenciaga, a huge inspiration of Manolo's, they're both Spanish.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Well, Christopher Balenciaga is obviously no longer with us, but like his shoe his gowns have inspired so many of Minolo's shoes for decades, and you can see that in our archive. And he's done interviews about it and spoken about it, and then said I've got a new creative director, and he had reached out and was like, is there something we could do? And we actually took a classic style of ours called the Nadeira and sort of gave it the the the Balenciaga twist, and it's sort of a bit of a yeah, an updated version of it. And actually, that will sell in Balenciaga stores as opposed to ours. We obviously manufacture and produce everything and then work on a big comms plan collaboratively with them. But again, like even the way that their company works for a brand like that, they've got kind of buyers is probably not the right word. But yeah, I suppose they still do market for their global for all of their global territories, and the leading buyers of those global territories will come in and see what needs to be bought for specific markets to see what it's placing. So again, having those conversations and how we're doing that on a global scale.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

So so yeah, it's a estimate of time by staying true to your values, don't you? Well, I mean, we're 55, almost 56 years old, never had any investment.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Manolo still the you know remains to be, you know, the founder, creative director, uh, chairman of the business with his family alongside him. And actually, but but and this is the thing about jumping on trends and doing those things and looking for quick wins. Something that I've learned at Manolo Blanc, and I think it's something that I'll take on with me for the rest of my life and so many other capacities, is that it's not always about being the first or being the fastest or trying to do things now. It's like you get to a point of success over time, like it doesn't just happen. Like it and the things that do just happen are like flash in the pan. It's like with so many things, you know, you need to put the effort and time into things to see the rewards of it. Like it doesn't just happen. And I think there's just like a misconception sometimes that um that you know these things just happen overnight. And it's interesting for us, you know. We've we've recently opened in um China. Oh, I was back, as I mentioned, I was in Beijing and I was in I was in Shanghai the year before where we opened for the first time. We had a trademark against our name there for 22 years. So we couldn't actually trade in the the territory. So we fought it for almost 22 years and we and we got the trademark back. I mean, it was like we're now a case study because I think the only other person that's managed to win that back was Michael Jordan, and it's also because it's an IP thing around the person's name, so that's why we've we started opening there, but it's it's so interesting going to that market. You know, I work with a brand that most people know, or most girls know certainly. And I think, you know, if you've been part of the Sex Nacity era and all of those things, it's a name that people know. And certainly in China people do, but you've got to remember like how big the country is, and actually, you know, we've got 55 years, 56 years of sort of heritage that we've communicated here for such a long time, and at Chile, we're kind of like back to day one there, which is incredible, you know. And I and and you know, the that's actually really exciting, isn't it? Because really, really sort of bring go back to the proper roots exactly, and bringing yeah, it's really interesting because you can't just be like, Oh yeah, this is a Manolobanic ex collaboration right now. Everyone's like, Well, who what? Like, what's your history and what's your and I think that that's yeah, exactly. And that's something that in China they do really value. I think like the craftsmanship, the storytelling, the heritage. Like heritage is quite uh is quite a key thing. So, you know, we're working on demonstrating that there kind of from the start again, which is really exciting and and you know, brings new new challenges and I mean it keeps my job exciting because you're always learning and experiencing new things. So yeah, I think it's just it's it's an interesting place to be working for a brand because there's very few now that are as old as Manolo Bonic is with the heritage that the brand has that are still privately owned, we're still opening in all of these new markets, where like so it's yeah, it's it's quite unique in that sense. And I do always think back to the journalists that said to me, there's kind of there's you can't say no to Minolo, and there's kind of no place like it. And there really isn't, and I feel like incredibly lucky to be to be part of that sort of journey.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I love hearing about it, how it's so focused on the heritage and the craftsmanship. Because as you say, some things these days, trends come and go so quick, things can go viral overnight. But as you say, it can be an absolute flash in the pan, it's here today, gone tomorrow. And it is about building things over time and having that consistency. That's what's going to make you stand the test of time that's gonna give you that kind of like that long, that the future sort of exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

And I think you know, Christina speaks about that a lot, like so eloquently and maybe for a different conversation. But it's like, you know, she's second generation now as a CEO leading a business, and it's actually, you know, Manola created the business, but we've now got to take this and like lay these foundations of like what matters most to the business, what's at the core of that, and how do we build this legacy going forward? And how do you make sure that you are resilient in what it is that you want to do and your messaging and that you don't falter from that? Because yes, something might take an extra year to do, or it might take 22 years, you know, to get into China. But you know, he could have said 20 years ago, well, I'll call myself a different name and go into China, which lots of brands have done because you can do that, you know, you can still produce your product then and put it in there, but you've just registered under a different name. Like that was always possible, but it it wasn't about that, it was about the brand and the values and who we are, and and being able to connect all of that together. And so it was absolutely worth the wait. And I do think that that's so important, and something that I think everyone in Our industry, regardless of the position that you're in or the kind of department, I think it's something that everyone should really be thinking about because it also builds safety. And I think that's really important. I think people take big risks on trends and you know, things work or things fail and whatever, but you're not maybe really staying true to who you are or what you are as a business. And you know, that's everyone's got a part to play in that. And I think, you know, the ultimate safety and the ultimate kind of luxury is well, I would say definitely from our businesses, like the freedom of the fact that it is privately owned because what it allows you to do, but also like giving yourself time to do things well and to do it properly and to do it in a considered way. And I think customers today are so much more aware of considered products and are so much more engaged on, you know, where things have come from or how they've been made, or you know, do you want the experience or the storytelling behind it? Like, and I mean, I think a lot of that stems from the news and the the access that people have now through things like social media and well, I think brands are more transparent as well, to be fair, and I as I think they should be. But there's so much more access now to learn. Like, you know, 10, 20 years ago, I mean, definitely when I was in university, if you wanted to find out something about a brand, it was quite hard, really, unless you were inside the brand, you know, unless you unless you had an in there or you did an internship or something like that. It wasn't, it was no real transparency. But I think that there is that now. So I think I I just feel like people across the industry should be mindful of that and not try and look for quick wins, but actually think a bit more long term.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, yeah. And I love that you touched on customer there. I think it's really interesting. So from our from our sort of upbringing and uh education in becoming, you know, really quite successful buyers, we've always been taught that customer is first. What does the customer want? What's the customer need? And when you're when you're sort of balancing that with values, how do you do that in the luxury fashion world? Because obviously the values are so much stronger. How how are you sort of leaning into what your customer needs, wants, lives, you know, and balancing that with making sure that you're still staying true to your values?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

I think for a brand like ours, like I think ultimately we we all say like Manila Planck's not really a fashion brand, really. As in, he makes shoes, but he's like the ultimate creative, and it just sort of comes out in shoes. In fact, it was Diana Veland who was, you know, an iconic fashion editor for a very long time. Was it a Harper's Bazaar and was it in Vogue US? And he got introduced to her through Paloma Picasso, and he Manolo wanted to do set design, and he was doing showing her all of his drawings of a set they'd designed for a Midsummer's Night's Dream. And she looked at the drawings and it had like mannequin-y kind of people in it, and he'd like really gone to town on the shoes. And she was like, Yes, fine. The set is kind of fine, it looks nice, but you should stick to the extremities. I was like, You should make shoes. Anyway, so that's what he did. So he's like the ultimate creative and it comes out that way. But I suppose the point that I'm trying to make is I feel like you know, we don't do like normal fashion week schedules and we don't do trends. We don't, I mean, we know literally designs whatever he wants. I mean, quite often, you know, we are writing the sort of press releases for a seasonal drop, and you know, the inspiration could be anything from Marie Antoinette to Bauhaus to like, you know, it Marilyn Monroe to a tree that's in his garden. I mean, it really is like that broad. And I make no jokes of that. I will send you some press releases afterwards, and you can try to weave those things together sometimes. That's why I've got a very, very good team. But but actually, it's what makes it exciting for our clients, and I think we're a specialist brand, I would say. I think even where our stores are located, he's always like really particular. You know, we're not on places like Bond Street, we're in Burlington Arcades, or we're in, you know, Old Church Street hidden away in Chelsea, we're in Palais Royal, in you know, Paris. It's like these aren't big shopping streets. It's slightly different in the US. We're on Madison Avenue. But, you know, I think it's we want people to come into the stores and for it to feel a bit like home. Like our Old Church Street store feels a bit like a living room. We want people to come in and hang out. And then our new store in Milan and also in Madison Avenue, we've got like a bar in there where people just come in and have a coffee and chat to people. And I think, you know, listen, I think the reality is I work in an industry and in a part of the industry where no one really needs very expensive shoes or bags or clothes. Like they're not need people don't need those things. It's about kind of why do they want them? And and if they're going to invest, and I think that's how we like to look at it, like if they're going to make an investment with us, we want to make sure that they're buying something that's timeless. It's not trend-driven, it's something in, you know, 10 years' time, 20 years' time. I go to so many events and people will come up to me and say, I think when we did a lunch in Hong Kong, someone came up and said, I bought these shoes 20 years ago when I got a promotion at work and they really mean the world to me. Or people are like, These were my wedding shoes, and I had them died, and they're always really special to me. And I think that like that's what we want to create. It's that feeling of like a really special moment or a milestone in people's lives. And also it's quite generational for us as well. There's a lot of people that, you know, that grandmothers have, you know, had Manola Blanc's and then the the mum has, and then, you know, grandchildren. I was in. No, it's so sweet. I was in, we just opened a new store in California and we had I was there a few at the beginning of the year, and I did an event, and this girl came up to me and she said, Oh, I'm wearing the these, she said these shoes were actually my wedding shoes, but they were like, I think they were like a pinky colour, but they were beautiful though, like quite, I mean, they must be about 10 years old. And she said, Well, she said her that their grandmother had been like quite a fierce businesswoman, and she said that Manola Blannox were always the thing that she put on to make her feel quite powerful, and she was quite unwell, and the grandmother was going to pass away. And her and her cousins, like I think a few of them were a similar age, and they were all kind of maybe engaged or getting married and that sort of thing. And when she had passed away, they they obviously whatever else had, you know, happened and inheritance of those things, but she had left them all in envelope, and it was with money and a note card to say for their weddings they should all go and buy Manolo Bannock shoes because it's like one of the most special days of their life and they should feel powerful and special on that day. And like that was a moment, and she was wearing them, and I thought, like, that's what we want to create for people. Like that, it's like that's the need that we want people to have, are those moments. And you know, I can't speak for every brand out there, but I suppose having something that feels a bit timeless or precious or special, and that it's got a genuine story to it or a moment in your life that you really remember. I mean, I got married wearing Manola Blanc shoes and I didn't even work for them at the time. Like, but that I was I remember being in the old Church Street store and like they didn't actually have the ones that I wanted in stock and they got them made for me at the factory. So it's like I will always remember that. And I think that's kind of what in our niche kind of world of that that I kind of operate in, that's that's what we look for. But I do totally agree that customer does need to come first, and I think that that's something that probably from a buying world was always a bit of a mantran kind of in place a lot of the time. But I think from a communications point of view, for a long time, I don't really think it was as much like that. And I think that that's kind of kind of taken a bit of a turn. And I think looking at that sort of buyer, merchandiser, that sort of world with communications now, I think are they should be at the very least, we certainly are a lot more aligned because I think, you know, for a long time it was always, and you know, press, QLs, all of that sort of stuff incredibly important, amazing for getting your message out. But I think that there always was this world of sort of exclusivity around who could see the product in parties, and you know, brands were putting in huge amount of investment, you know, it was only like a select few in an industry that were actually getting visibility or were getting the kind of storytelling in that way. And I think definitely a lot of my strategy now is based around experiential moments for our customers, and actually, what do customers want to come to? You know, what do they want to do? Like we recently were the headline sponsor of the Marie Antoinette exhibition at the VA, Marie Antoinette style, because Manolo made all the shoes for the Sophia Coppola film that Kirsten Dunn starred in, which is now 20 years old, and Minolo's biggest inspiration in life ever is Marie Antoinette. So, like 20 years ago, that was this absolute pinnacle moment, and it was like, I cannot believe that I'm getting to do that. It actually won the Oscar for costume as well. And then when the VA, when we were in touch with the VA, we were like, we need to be the headline sponsor, no other names up there. It's like Minolo's closest moment to being next to Marie Antoinette. And that exhibition was incredible. I mean, it's actually it's it's was launched in September and it's wrapping up next week. And I think there's been something like 270 or 280,000 visitors, is performing 30% above what they even expected. We have done so many amazing client engagement moments and also with lots of our partners as well, with like Neta Porta and their top clients, like private tours and really special dinners in the museum and talks with Christina and Manolo and why it's such a big inspiration. And he designed a whole new Marie-Antoinette-inspired collection to launch at the same time as it, which I think sold out in about four weeks or something. So, and and I think it's because it comes from a place of like genuine creativity and genuine inspiration. And also I think it's because we were really engaging with our customers from a communications point of view, as opposed to kind of keeping it for a privileged few. It was actually like we've got this amazing exhibition that we're we're thrilled to be part of. We've got amazing pieces in the exhibition. Manolo's re-inspired and is designed more, and we want you to be part of this journey and come and experience it with us and bring in our clients and give them those experiences directly. I think that that's what matters to people a lot. And I think that that is what's driving sales and communications today. I think that's the that's the piece that everyone should be focusing on, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Yeah, yeah, incredible. Yeah, I mean, it's just amazing to hear like so many, so many things that we really, really believe in as well. And I think I think for me, what's come through is the piece that you have to be working together. Like every part of the business needs to be working together. And whenever, you know, we've launched our own brand ranges for the retailers that we've worked for, we've been so close and so tight with PR and marketing. And I think a lot of companies, there are certain departments where that doesn't happen. And you can see where that communication breaks down and it doesn't launch well.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

You can't work in silo and you also then can't capitalize on, you know, it's such a I always think it's such a shame when you can see things that could have been great but have like just missed the mark, or the stock wasn't there, or no one knew the stock was there, so didn't speak about this at this time, or gave like, you know, and it is hard because, you know, there's so many moving parts and there are so many people and everyone is trying their best. I don't think it's because anyone's intentionally ever gone out their way to make something not a success. But you know, there's so many factors and you know, production and fabrics that you can't get hold of, or you know, like there's there's there's a knock-on effect to so many things. But I think just like where you can come together and you know plan in advance and actually not kind of just, you know, do it ad hoc. I think it really is about, and you know, there's ad hoc moments and there's things that crop up that you weren't expecting, and you can manage those things, but I think where teams can collaborate more, because everyone has got a different point of view and an insight that can actually take an okay idea to something that's actually quite substantial and significant, and it can come from a really unexpected place, and that's why I don't think people should, you know, gatekeep or you know, or and also not, you know, feel that it's not their place to share an idea. I mean, you know, always be tactful within a business. But I think it's important that, you know, you speak up and you ask questions when you don't understand something and that you're not ashamed to do that, and that you can A, that you can learn from it, or B, give a point of view that someone else might not have even considered or thought, like, you know, been thinking about. And I think that's definitely something in my career that I've always tried to do. And I think it's actually one of the things that's helped me progress because I'm always quite keen on like logistics, for example. You wouldn't think that that relates with communication so much, but it massively does because it's like whenever our sample's going to be there, when is this product gonna land in a specific territory? You know, what should we be doing when? And I was always, you know, our um our chief operations officer is you know, at very we were very close. And I saw it, but like, Villas, can you sit down with me and just go through what does this look like or what is this warehouse and where is that, you know? And it's actually, I think, you know, just asking questions sometimes to get a better understanding of the business that you work in. I think people can sometimes just say, oh, it's that that's not a me thing. And actually, I think it kind of should be, and not to step on people's toes or, you know, mosey yourself in where you're unwanted. But I think people respond quite well to be asked questions about what they're doing so that they can share the insights to you, maybe the challenges that they have, you know, like there's no point of like moaning at, oh, that's not, you know, that product's not there yet, or why has that not happened? You know, and then PD and production are there being like, you know, we were promised X, Y, and Z, we can't get this, we've done testing, it's not right. You know, we can't put a shoe out there that's not perfect. I mean, that's essentially what the business is built on. And so, like, I think it gives, I think the more knowledge that you have, you have a much better understanding and also are a bit more a bit more, and you have a bit more empathy, I suppose, to like the challenges that other people are facing and what they're going through as well in their own roles. And then again, you can come together collectively to find resolutions, but you can't do that in silo, like you can't find a comms resolution because it's not about that, it's a business resolution. So I think that that's something that I would always really encourage and I do with my own team. And when I've been asked or questioned on this sort of thing before, I think it really is about, you know, trying to contribute more than what is kind of asked for you at your baseline. And I think, you know, when other people need help, if you can try and get involved and also just ask people questions as well, get to know more about what other people do, what other people are responsible for, because it starts to build a much clearer picture in your own head about an over about an overarching business. And when the more that you have of that, the more that you can naturally progress there.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you get like a better perspective on things, don't you? And understanding, as you say, like why something hasn't happened isn't necessarily because someone hasn't done it. There's re there's often reasons for it. And I love what you've said about you know, listening to everyone, everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion. It doesn't matter what your level is because your take on things might be completely different, and you might be seeing that something that someone really else hasn't seen. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

And I think it's you know, we've seen it from you know, from two sides. It's obviously like, you know, a younger audience, and how do you engage with a younger audience? And even Manolo's always like, Where are the young people? I want him to speak to them, which is always and we'll like come into the comms room and find the intern and go through every magazine with them, and you can see these like overwhelmed and shocked sort of faces, and he's like, you know, this like iconic man, and he's like, Show me this one, let's do this together. What do you think of this? Which is amazing, and but but also he doesn't do it for show, like he's genuinely interested. He's like, You're 21, what is your take on this? Yeah, yeah, and you know, I think that's how you need to think about things, but you know, also when we launched in Milan, we did, and I'll probably butcher how you say this, but there's a a social media account called Shura Glam, and like Suras in Italy are like these kind of, you know, like the older, very chic, but quite maybe a bit sassy women that are like fabulously dressed all the time and like you know, you know, walk about Milan and are just amazing. Anyway, we decided to do a big collaboration with them for our launch in Milan, you know, but it's like you know, the the models then were kind of from like I think they were like from 60 to like 80 years old. Wow, absolutely fabulous, so cool, shot them all over Milan, like in the kind of the the metro station and on like and on these amazing streets near the Duomo, like everything. It was fabulous. And it was actually our highest performing piece of content all of last year, significantly, and the comments and the engagement and everything on that. And that's the other thing, you know, it's like you can't just yes, every brand has probably got its core audience, and you need to be thinking about that all the time. But then sometimes you need to take a step back and think to yourself, you know, there's an education piece about you know being an aspirational product for people in the future, right? But there's also the reality of we're an expensive product, and who has the disposable income all the time to, you know, buy products at this level and whatever. It is actually me, maybe more so that demographic, you know, and not leaving that those people out or hearing that point of view or the products that they love, because even the models on the table are like, I love this shoe because it's elegant, but like the heels not too high, I can walk about in this, it's great. And you know, that's amazing feedback as well for out from I don't know, for the for the you know, product development team, for the factory, for you know, when we're having conversations with buyers, well, not me personally, the like the commercial team, but the we, the business, you know, some of our wholesale partners as well, and what what we're selling into those buyers, we're like, actually, we saw an amazing response to this. Have you considered it before? And those are all conversations, you know, then it goes full loop.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

So yeah, I think helping each other out with that, you know, that helps them sell that further because that's where that inspiration's come from. That's amazing. I think one sort of final question from me would be just leading on that then. What what other brands do you think are doing really well at the moment? Like, and why is there any anybody in particular that you think they're standing out and they're sort of, you know, really, really leading the way?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Okay, I'll give you two. I'll give you like a like a really well-known one and then one that's maybe like a bit more niche. I so I mean, listen, I think Jonathan Anderson at Dior is doing a great job. There's no two ways about it. And whether or not you love the product or you don't love the product, I think what he is is a great marketeer as well as being a great creative and also understanding the storytelling. And I think what's amazing is so much of for people that don't know, like his dad was his big rugby like icon. And you know, like in the collections, there was like some rugby tops and bits of his past, and then the book bags that were then had the books on the front and things that he's read. And I think it's like there's a there's a story and there's a connection, and there's more to it than just like it's a new collection.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

So I think that that's really interesting because I think it's opening up the audience to learn more about him as a creative director. I think it's opening people up to, I don't know, reading a book even that they you they they might not have read before. He's really into ceramics as well and has done things with Wedgewood, which is which is super cool but kind of traditional. But bringing something into, you know, what I think is quite cool about that is, you know, there's probably a 20-something that's, you know, desperate for like it's hard about the Wedgewood thing, it's hard about all the best, and then is speaking to my grandma who probably has a collection of it somewhere in the cupboard, and there's this sort of intergenerational conversation that then stems from that, which I think is which is really cool. Very nostalgic, isn't it? Like a box. And I think that that's a really nice thing to have. There's also a jewellery brand that I'm a huge fan of called Sophie Billy Bra, um, which is a Danish jewellery brand. And Sophie, who is the founder of it, I think she is designs, I mean, she is like pearls of diamonds, and it's all kind of fine jewellery. But I think she also does beautiful like Murano vases and some candles, and I think the community of women that she's built, and this and it's less of this like trying to be cool girl, but more more like I'm not like like female boss, like it's it's so much more subtle than that. But I think the community of women that she's sort of speaking to that really appreciate craftsmanship and like her creativity, and it's still something very luxurious but with quite a contemporary spin on it. But I also feel like, yeah, I think it's like the community side and the stories that she's bringing out in individual women, and she does quite a lot of campaigns around her actual customers or like wearers of the product, you know, over just you know, like a K Well that's obviously paid for. I think like a lot of these people are genuine, you know, fans and connected to the brand and they're kind of becoming the storytellers for her. And she has these beautiful, beautiful showroom spaces, like there's one in New York where you could go and lounge there all day, and it's so beautifully curated. And I think what she's exceptionally good at is bringing a world together where yes, the product is jewellery, but you get a sense of the overall world and who she is and the inspirations that have led her to designing what she's designed, and I always think that that's quite you can see why this ring is there because you can just see her sort of world and the aesthetic that she loves and the art that she's inspired by, etc. So I think that's like two different two different parts of luxury.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yeah, it sounds like she's sort of a lifestyle, not just the product. Yeah, it's very emotive, both of them. Yeah, I I think that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

And I and I think that that is crucially something that everyone should be considering from if you work for any brand. I think you have to be emotive now, regardless of your price point or what you're selling. But you know, unless it's a product that people actually need day in, day out, like unless it's like a toothbrush or you know, something, you know, it's actually You know, it's a challenging time for a lot of people out there. I think like economically things are hard. I think, you know, disposable income for anyone on any kind of salary as well is, you know, regardless of how much you are, and I suppose everything's costing more for everyone. So it's all, it's all relative, right? So I think that people are questioning now what they buy. They're not being so frivolous with purchases, they're considering things more and maybe thinking to themselves, like, do I really need this? Why do I need this? Or what is it going to bring to my life, or how is it going to add value? Or will I pass it down? Or, you know, or is it the best best in class? And I think you have to be, you have to be one of one, if not all, of those things. Because if you're not, I don't think people feel safe enough just now to part with, you know, hard-earned money in a time where it's globally there's so much turbulence. And I think that that's that's ultimately what it comes down to. So yeah, I think the the transparency of businesses and the storytelling and and giving people a reason and like a genuine emotive connection to a product is the the world that everyone should be thinking about at the moment, regardless of the price point.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

Yeah, 100%. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Like honestly, it's been incredible. It's been nice to do that little churny down memory lane as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

I know, I know, it makes me think I can't believe that all of this has happened, you know. It's like you can that journey. You don't really know where the time's gone sometimes. We've not wasted the years, but at the same point, I don't know where they've gone, which is where they've gone. But I know I'm like, oh wow. But no, but thank you very much for the very kind invite, and it's been so nice speaking with you both.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Honestly, it's been so insightful hearing so much more about such a house. I was just gonna say household, but not household. I mean an iconic name. Yeah. And and knowing that it, you know, Milano Vlanik sticks to its values, but is so future thinking and forward looking, is yeah, is amazing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Thanks, JD. I'll speak to you later. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

Kate, are you a drama queen? No, drama just makes things interesting. That's true. All these thoughts and opinions are our own and based on our own experiences working for a wide variety of retailers. These are all in the hope to entertain and educate and not to reflect negatively on any place we currently or have previously worked.