Ep 265 Lisa Canning

Lisa is a firm believer that artists are here on this earth to make a difference in the lives of others. One of the ways she makes a difference is by helping clarinetists find their voice on the right instrument. She says the most amazing thing about learning to play a wind instrument is that it teaches you how to express your emotions. 

Her goal is to help musicians express themselves and make a big difference sharing their musical gifts and their creative passions through the clarinet with others. Music Matters. There is no better way to learn how to express yourself than through a musical instrument. Especially a wind instrument. 

Transcript

 Coming to you from the studios at the Illinois Rock and Roll Museum on Route 66, it's the Rock and Roll Chicago Podcast. Hey everybody, it's Ray the Roadie. And this is Hollywood Mike on this wonderful blustery, windy, freezing cold. 

Yeah, did you know what a squall was before today? I thought it was a wall of squirrels. Yeah, when every electronic gadget in my house went off this morning, from my phones, my iPad, every single Alexa. Yeah, whatever. 

Yeah, every single Alexa. Yeah, it was. And okay, it's a, we have a squall coming. 

I was like, what's a squall? I looked out the window and it's almost like I saw it rolling down the street. Like a dust storm or something came in. Right. 

And within two minutes we had, we had snow on the ground. Yeah. Unbelievable. 

I like, Literally, my office is the top window of our house, and I can see my truck in the driveway. I couldn't see my truck. It was just a whiteout with 30 feet or however far away I was, it was just a complete whiteout. 

But anyways, we are in Chicago. We are. If you don't like the weather. 

Actually, tonight, we're in Joliet. Yes, we are in Joliet tonight, yes. And who is with us? We have Lisa Canning from Lisa's Clarinets. 

Yes, from Lisa's Clarinets. That's what I said. Yes, you did say that. 

I did. It was the crowd noise. I couldn't hear it. 

Lisa, how you doing? I'm doing really well. Thanks for coming out on this horrible day that we just described. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. 

Yeah, yeah, so where'd you come from? I have a showroom in Downers Grove, Illinois. Do you really? I do. Whereabouts? It is on Belmont Road, 5120 Belmont Road, Unit C for Clarinet. 

Okay, right, okay. So when you say Lisa's Clarinets, it's just not the name of a band and an act and stuff like that. It's actually Lisa's Clarinets. 

Actually, what's funny about that is I've been using that more because I'd like everyone to have a clarinet shop with their name in it, but really, it's Lisa's Clarinet Shop. Yeah, yeah, okay, excellent, excellent. So Belmont Road, you said, it's on Belmont? It is. 

Okay, all right. Right next to the train station. Nice, okay, I know right where that area is. 

I used to spend a lot of time in Downers Grove. Cool. Still do a little bit. 

It's a nice little town. It is. Yeah, yeah, pretty good. 

Is the Tribeca Cigar Shop still there? I don't know, I don't smoke cigars, so I haven't ever checked that out. Where would that be? It was on, I guess they call it Main Street. Is Main Street known as something else? Yeah, no, it's still Main Street. 

Just Main Street, but I thought if you go south, if you go south of it, it's called something else, and they call it Main Street when it's right through the center of town there, but it's right at, I don't know, the Cross Street. Well, you probably know where Ballydell's is. Yeah. 

Okay, so it's like a block south of Ballydell's. Well, I will check that out, because my husband and his friends enjoy cigars. Yeah, well, I know I've been there before. 

I mean, I know I've been, it's very familiar. But I haven't seen if it's still there or not. It used to be, I used to have to commute from the city back home almost every day. 

On nights like tonight, I'd stop in Downers Grove and smoke a cigar until the traffic cleared. Good idea. Nice. 

And that's how I knew it. And when you get south of 75th Street there, it becomes Lamont Road. That's what, see, I knew it. 

That's what I was thinking of. That's exactly it. So how does one get involved in clarinet? See, I mean, my experience with the clarinet is, so in sixth grade I decided I'm gonna join the band, right? And all the boys wanted to be drummers. 

And so then you weed out the ones where there's, their parents said, nope, you're not having drums in our basement. And that was me. So I played the saxophone. 

Right, I was gonna say, usually they play the saxophone. Because that was the next cool instrument that sixth graders recognized, right? And then after you got through, okay, you gave out, you can't have everybody playing saxophone. So after all the saxophones are given out, then you got, the boys wanna play trumpet, right? So that's how you get your trumpet players. 

Yeah. And then they look at these sixth graders that look like they're big enough and old enough to be in high school, and they end up with the tubas. And then the clarinets and the trombones go out to the kids that signed up late. 

I mean, that's all you got left. Actually, the really smart directors started on saxophone and they put really hard reeds on them or make them so they can't really play them so easy. And then the clarinet looks really cool because everything works. 

Oh, is that what the trick is? So actually, it's a side maneuver. And you get a lot of boys who do that because they're competitive and they like the idea that they can do something quicker. Oh, okay. 

Yeah, I totally get that. I get that, but that's a trick so all of you listening out there, don't fall for the thick, stiffer reeds on the saxophone. I don't know how our grade school demographic is. 

Yeah, I don't know. But I mean, just work through it. There's gonna be months and months of you spitting on yourself, but just do it. 

That's right. But when you think about it, it's like the most entrepreneurial thing. If you think it's cool as a kid, you could possibly do because there is no destination. 

No, you don't know where you're going, you know? It's a ride, it's a journey. That is correct until you find out that there is a bass clarinet and there's a soprano clarinet and there's all other kinds of clarinets here. I thought there was just that one black plastic thing that looked like a big whistle. 

Can I tell you a really funny story about a kid with a bass clarinet? Please do. I'm dying to hear a story. No, I'm kidding. 

Well, it's just really funny because music is really quirky. And so just like every other thing that's very niche, people get hooked on something and they will not get it out of their head. And what's strange, whether you're 10, 11, or 12, or 15, or 20, that still happens as an adult, right? So this kid, his mom said, you have to play in a band. 

He said, okay, I'll play the clarinet. And he just didn't practice, wasn't really into it. His mom was like, you're not really into this right now. 

But then he heard the bass clarinet on something and he just started nagging his mom. And his mom was like, you're not committed to this. I'm not gonna spend $4,000 or $5,000 on a bass clarinet. 

That's not happening. And he just wouldn't let up. He just, he was like a totally different kid. 

She must've called me over the better part of a year. And then finally she said, I can't take this anymore. We're coming down and we're buying you a bass clarinet. 

And this kid went from not interested at all to infatuated and he's like totally addicted now because he found his voice. You know when I discovered that the clarinet was cool? When? When I heard the last dance on Frank Sinatra was singing with Count Basie's orchestra. And there's that really cool clarinet intro. 

Oh yeah, that's so cool. I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, you do. 

You're a jazzy kind of guy. Yeah, that was it. Isn't there a thing that looks like a clarinet that is actually called a saxophone? That's the thing that Kenny G plays. 

The soprano saxophone. The soprano saxophone. It's that really irritating one. 

It looks like a clarinet. It's black, but the clarinet's black. And it's made out of wood. 

And you gotta push the dude out of the side of your mouth. Well, if you wanna be cool like Kenny G, that's because his jerry curl gets in the way on the other side of the instrument. He's gotta go this way. 

Yeah, well, but they're not all made out of wood though because you can get them made out of plastic. You can. When you started as a beginner. 

No, the beginners, yeah. You start on plastic instruments, then you move on. So, you know, while you were doing whatever you were doing in high school, I was starting a business. 

Yeah, no kidding, in high school. Yeah, excellent. So tell us about that. 

Just, I really got into music. I actually, not to be dark, but I came from an upwardly mobile family, but my mother was crazy. And music kind of got me out of the house. 

And my parents were pretty cool about paying for things if it was educationally oriented. And so I did everything to get out of the house. Right, right, right. 

And so I wound up at Interlochen Arts Academy for high school. And I realized there was this huge opportunity because people didn't know anything about gear and they really needed help. And while I really enjoyed performing, the weird thing that I've seen in the performance scene is that the better you get, the more elitist you are, the fewer friends. 

Yeah. And it really sucks because music's supposed to be about peace, love, and harmony. So you should be, great people should be just as embraced as people who are not. 

And I found I was really competitive and it didn't work because I was winning. And so I thought, how can I win and kind of hide it? Yeah. How can I be sneaky winner? Right, so that people don't single you out or ignore you because they feel threatened or jealous. 

How can you help other people? And that's what I've been doing ever since. So what's the business that you actually started in high school? Selling clarinets. I actually started selling reeds. 

I sold reeds and mouthpieces. Weed? Reeds. Oh, reeds. 

And you're like, shh, jeez. I know it's legal now, but. Yeah, yeah. 

So you're in high school and I'm just gonna start selling reeds. I don't care who wants them. Like the first one's always free, baby. 

Here you go. No. No. 

No. Get you hooked. That's funny. 

Now you got all these reeds. Now you need a clarinet. That's true. 

But when you're in high school, you start on credit cards and you have to pay your bills every month so that your crazy mom doesn't come take your phone away from you. And so there was a lot of pressure on me to be able to pay my way. And so I had to be really good at selling things. 

And the margins aren't that high, right? Music, that's always been the problem in music is that we love what we do. And so you play and you teach and teaching is a little better pay than playing typically if you're a freelancer. But there's this whole other thing called industry, you know, and there's this opportunity to fix. 

When you first started, did you like hang out in some alien? Hey, kid, come here. Yeah, because I'm trying to understand who's- How did I do this? You wanna buy the internet? Yeah, I'm trying to understand who are, where are all these people that are buying clarinet reeds like they're going out of style? What's a really weird thing is there's this subculture that's been here the whole time you've been alive where there's very addicted people to classical music and jazz and to beautiful sounds. And they're willing to invest lots of their time and money in lessons. 

And they typically hide because they're in the practice room a lot. Sure. And they're 15 and they're 18 and they're just not in society going to the bars and they're not, it's not, that's not bad, but they're just not doing that. 

They're more like a dance culture, right? In that way, really committed. And there's a lot of them, you know, you would be surprised. So it's not, you know, it's not growing anymore, but that's another story. 

So you guys kind of called up a company that makes clarinet reeds and say, look, I wanna be a distributor for you or something like that. So what happened was, was that my whole family was in business for themselves. And when I realized that while I was winning solo competitions and I was playing in orchestras at a high level, I didn't like what I told you. 

And I decided I need to do something by the side. And then a friend of mine had this business, her and her husband, he taught at DePaul University, the DeRoches, Julie DeRoche, Julie and Don DeRoche, Don just passed away. And she's a clarinet player and a clarinet teacher. 

And they had this little side business and they were about to have their son, their child. Okay. And she was like, I just don't wanna sell these reeds anymore. 

And it's not that I don't want this, but I want someone good to do this. Will you do this? And I was like, oh my God, you want me to do this? Cause I was exciting. Cause it fit right into sort of my little plan, right? Except that I had to put, get my own credit cards cause nobody was gonna help me. 

I didn't want anyone to have control over helping me is probably the better way of saying that. And so I was terrified, but I bought like $15,000 of accessories in a little cabinet. And I had a little paper flyer and I started doing business with all my friends at school. 

Wow. Who were just like in the band? Who were like studying classical music or jazz and who would knock on my door at midnight cause they had to try mouthpieces because they heard something they loved. Okay. 

And I'm like sound asleep. Or who, you know, needed 10 boxes of reeds because they were gonna win an audition in two weeks and they had to go through them all and adjust them and sand them down and get them all ready for their audition. And you can't just walk down the street to your local music store and not everybody's gonna have reeds. 

I mean, you can't buy reeds at Guitar Center. You can, but it's hard. Okay. 

All right. It's hard. It's hard to do that. 

Which is unfortunate. It makes me sad to say that actually, but it's hard. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at is, you know, it's like, where are all these people buying these things and what are they buying? And I don't know, you're talking to a guitar player. 

Just give me, you know, a pedal, you know, or whatever. It's a lot like gigging though. You get into a group with people that you know, like and trust and people that are smarter than you in some ways and you trust each other enough to share knowledge and to like get, you know, hang out and have a good time. 

And it's the same thing with gear, right? Like you need someone who knows a lot about gear, who isn't gonna just try to sell you a bunch of stuff, who actually gives us, you know, making sure you come out okay. You can say shit. Okay. 

It's okay. But you know, just try to make sure that, you know, everybody can listen. Yeah. 

So you've got these clarinet reeds, right? Mm-hmm. Are clarinet reeds like overdrive pedals for guitar? Like there's a hundred of them out there and they all sound different? They do. Okay. 

But actually it wasn't until 30 years later that I actually discovered, which makes total sense, that some of it's on purpose. Sure. But that's also another story. 

Well, no, I mean, I could understand that. I mean, on purpose, mainly because somebody's looking for a specific sound. Well, in this case, Van Doren, because we were a really large accessory dealer, they brought me to France to help them design one of their reeds and work on them. 

And I got to see their machines and I didn't realize that they literally went around and said, what do you like? What do you like? And they looked at all the big players in all the big cities and then they put 10 reeds in a box that are all different. Hmm. Which is really weird. 

But so you never, you only find one or two. Great marketing strategy. And the one or two you find, you love. 

Right. Right. Do you use the same reeds in like a saxophone? You do. 

Okay. And there's a whole art to adjusting them. And because the whole expensive instrument doesn't work without that little tiny piece of cane. 

Right. And if it doesn't vibrate just the right way, it won't make sweet sound and it won't feel great to play. Yeah. 

And what's it made of? It is made of bamboo, but it's very seasoned and it takes a long time to grow and it takes curating it the right way. It's a whole big process, very competitive and very lucrative market once you get into it. Only bamboo, nothing else, no other wood or anything? You know, no. 

It's a very fussy growing, you've seen it. It looks like reeds, they're really like this, you know? And it's not grown here, mostly in France, some of the best cane in Argentina. So it's interesting. 

It's an interesting little thing that you spend $10,000 for this thing to play and you need this tiny little thing to make a sound. Yeah. How much do the reeds cost? $30, $40 a box. 

A box, and how many are in a box? 10 in a box. Okay, so that's not too bad. Like, but, Equivalent of guitar strings. 

I hope we don't use up all the bamboo in the world, though. Yeah. I mean, you know, have you ever seen a wild corduroy? A what? A wild corduroy. 

That's why you don't see corduroy pants and stuff anymore. They're extinct. Yeah. 

Oh. Well, that's what almost happened to our precious grenadilla wood for clarinets. Cites almost took us away because the cheap furniture industry basically was using our trees. 

It takes 50 years, five, zero, 50 years for our wood to be strong enough to drill holes into to make a wooden instrument. So a piccolo, an oboe, a clarinet. Right. 

You know, bass clarinet. And so that's a long time. Right. 

You know? Well, the what? The wooden clarinets. Isn't that made of some type of an African? Grenadilla wood. Is that what it is? Is that what it's pronounced? And it's only, and it's only that specific wood. 

You can't make it out of anything else. No, they're starting to use other woods. They, you know, there's coca-cola, there's a boxwood is sort of in there. 

There's a few different rosewoods. It depends, you know, there's some violet woods they're playing around with. Babinga, say babinga. 

Babinga? Yeah, I just like the sound of babinga. No, but I don't, but I mean, some of those woods that you actually mentioned, babinga included, are starting to be used in making fret boards for guitars. Oh, cool. 

Because rosewood is an endangered species. Yeah. So a lot of the rosewood that's out there on guitars nowadays is actually not really rosewood. 

Yeah. So, you know, I think when I was early in this, I was just product obsessed, not about pushing it on people, but just learning about it. Cause there's so much to know, right? I mean, just this little conversation here already demonstrates we've all been around the block trying things and looking at products and stuff, but the industry really hasn't evolved beyond that. 

And I don't mean that that's a bad thing, but we need to get more market share. And that's also what Lisa's Clarinet Shoppe is really working on. We have a new thing called the Working Musicians Academy. 

So we started in 2020 and we've been training people to do repair for wind instruments. No kidding. So we teach people how to fix clarinets and flutes and saxophones. 

They are the core of the band. Right, right. So actually they're the ones that when you get them enrolling, everybody else wants to play in the band. 

You know, I've got a, it's funny you mentioned that. I've got a friend that occasionally subs in my band on saxophone, but he also plays the bassoon and the oboe and he repairs those. That is his business. 

He lives out in Ottawa and he's like world-renowned. People send, I don't know if I can say it on the air right now. Okay, okay, I'm sure I know. 

Yeah, yeah, but I'll tell you for sure, yeah. Cool. Yeah, his name is Chad. 

Chad, we'll say Chad. Okay. Dangling? No, no, no. 

But the problem is they're really far apart and the average person who is just a casual, interested party, believe it or not, like around the age of 16 is when people decide if this is for them for life. And you might think that's a really big decision for a 16-year-old, but at the same time, after talking to just so many people, that's the truth of it. And they've been playing for a while by then usually. 

Yeah, but I mean, you talk to them in their 40s and 50s and 16 is when they decided this was for me. Even if it wasn't for me as a pro player, but just for me, like forever, I'm gonna do this. And there's a real commitment around that age, which is a very strange thing because it's hard for young people to make commitments, but that's one of them that gets made. 

Well, I think that's with any musical instrument. Yeah, yeah, or with any artistic discipline, I think. I think a lot of people commit to them. 

I don't know why that is. I don't know. It's kind of interesting. 

Maybe you're actually starting to mature at that time a little bit and getting you more aware of what's going on. And you say, hey, I like this. Yeah. 

I mean, I think a lot of people pick up a guitar when they're 14 or something. Right, right. And it speaks to them or whatever, but I know you're talking to a guy that plays in a band and we've got a stable of about 12 different horn players. 

And I think every single one of them can play the flute, they can play the clarinet, they can play the oboe. I mean, they all do. And I always ask them all the time. 

It's like, what made you decide that you just got to play that trombone? The trombone is probably the least of- It's the weirdest one. It is. It's like, but it spoke to him. 

Yeah, yeah, we call it the farting bedpost. But yeah, it's, but yeah, it's, but it speaks to you in some kind of way. So people are listening to the podcast, right? Give them a little history on the clarinet. 

How'd it come around? Because I know as far as like woodwind instruments are concerned, I know it's one of the newer ones. Well, 1800s, I am not a good historian. So I am going to reluctantly not quote dates because that's not going to be my thing. 

Sure, sure. But it's been around for, you know, long enough to kind of wither. And, you know, honestly, that's kind of it. 

It's kind of in a renewal point. I feel like it's got a real growth opportunity because it's such a beautiful instrument. And so are all the wind instruments, honestly. 

But really I'm going to just make a one hard pitch statement, which is it's so good for your brain. It is one of the best things you can do for your brain, whether you're 10 or you're a hundred, because it lights up more parts of it. Let the act of actually blowing, it's not just the sighing or the arm. 

It's the air that's getting pushed into your head. And to me, that's good. We need people to live longer. 

We need smarter people. We need more empathetic people. You're really awesome if more people play the wind instrument because it teaches you, I think, a lot about that because you have to have a lot of kindness for yourself because you're going to make a lot of mistakes. 

No. Now, do you play any other instruments? You know, I don't. I mean, there's like a whole army of people, just like you have an army of people that are doublers and have played a lot of stuff. 

I know a whole army of people who don't. They just play like one thing. It's like they're super hardcore. 

And it's a whole discipline in itself of trying to become an expert at something. And everything has expertise to it. It's just as much of an expertise to play ten instruments. 

It's really hard to do that. I'm trying to figure out that, you know, not being a clarinet player, I'm trying to figure out what's the degree of difficulty to learn. Is it very easy to pick it up and after two weeks say, yeah, I don't get this and put it down? Or is it something that the average person can, you know, I guess, get some success fairly easily? It's one of those things where you don't tell people how hard it is and you get them to relax and breathe and you teach them how to find the holes without looking at their fingers, because the problem is it's got all open holes. 

Kind of like Lamaze. Good day. Breathe without looking for the holes. 

Just breathe. That's funny. I know my head, the way it works. 

She's over here trying to be serious and I just can't be serious to save my life. I just don't know. Good. 

No, no. It's all good. But I totally get that. 

And I guess, and then what about cross training? OK, you learn how to play the clarinet. Does it become easier to play the saxophone now? Yeah. I mean, the saxophone is pretty easy to start, pretty hard to get good at, just like everything else. 

Yeah. The flute takes a lot of error. But, you know, it's just it's a cool, fun thing. 

And when you think of people out there committing to it instead of doing other things, it's kind of wild that we can have commitment. And, you know, I don't know, I think our world needs so much more like, you know, sticking out there with you really want to do and who you want to be and just letting it all hang out and going all in. You know, I think it's cool to do that. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. 

Let's hold that thought and we'll be right back. All right. You're listening to the Rock and Roll Chicago podcast. 

Your Sunday night's just got a whole lot bluesier. Get ready for the Bus Stop Blues show that takes you deep into the soul of the blues with classic hits, road stories and live jam sessions hosted by blues man Kevin Purcell and me, the one and only Road Bill. The Bus Stop Blues is two hours of nonstop blues, banter and badassery. 

Check out the Bus Stop Blues podcast at thebusstopblues.com, where you can listen on Spotify, iHeart, Apple Podcasts or any other major podcast platform. Hop on board the Bus Stop Blues where the blues never stops rolling. So tell us a little bit about the shop. 

Is the shop set up for just the passerby walking down the street, wanting to find out what's going on in there? So there's kind of a big story there. I'm gonna give you the quick arc tour and you can pick it apart anywhere you want, if you want. So when I started, I started with this little cabinet, right? Breeds and stuff. 

Well, it turned into a $10 million business. It turned into 50 full-time employees. It turned into selling like a high end boutique shop, clarinet, flute, trumpet, trombone, French horn, saxophone, tubas, euphoniums. 

And we rented about 5,000 band instruments in Northern Illinois. I was all completely in when I kind of realized that something, a piece of advice I had been given by the owner of Washington Music was right. He said, this industry is not good and you're going to find, you're gonna have a problem. 

And I realized I was becoming a banker, basically. Trying to just manage, how do I turn this stuff over? Because the margins weren't high enough. And I realized then that when I started to see big companies going broke, Woodward Brassett went under and I just started realizing there's not enough money here. 

And I love something that I'm contributing to the failure of instead of contributing to the success of. And I shrunk all the way back down from that into a clarinet shop. Wow. 

And I bit the bullet and went from 10 million in sales to one. Because what I wanted to do was figure out the problem. Like I've really been committed to this because I really do think politics is hard to argue about. 

It's hard, economic stuff is hard to talk about, but music and art is not because everybody's opinion counts and it allows everybody to just hang out and be who they are. And I think that's really, really important and cool. So how long has it been just strictly clarinets? About 18 years now. 

Okay. But the opportunity for me, and I'm kind of relentless, if you haven't figured that out already, as most of the people that are like me are, we're all pretty relentless bunch. I built a school pretty quick after that because I thought I wanna build a school. 

I wanna help people. And I built a great school. It had nothing to do with music though. 

Everybody who came was in the art sector, but no musicians showed up. And it got me a whole bunch of cool shit, but it didn't get me what I wanted, which was actually to help musicians. And it was called the Institute for Arts Entrepreneurship. 

And so from there I launched my marketing company and I started to try to figure out how can I really in earnest make a school? And that's how the Working Musicians Academy was ultimately born and is finally working. But it's taken more than one swing to get there. So you give lessons, you do all that stuff? No. 

No, you don't. No, we are a high end, the clarinet shop and my business always has been a high end boutique to help fit you for product, to help you make that smart decision so that you financially make a good investment and you also get the result you want to be able to grow as a musician, get that scholarship, win that audition, become that soloist. And that's why I said my name's probably known around the world really, because I've helped people all over at extremely high levels sound better and play better. 

All right, name drop. I don't want to. I don't, but I mean truly, I mean really, I don't have to, honestly. 

Benny Goodman? Benny Goodman came to Interlochen Arts Academy and it was right before I started my business. It was right before he died. He came there, but no, I wasn't selling quite then yet. 

But I met him and all that. I am impressed that you knew that Benny Goodman was a clarinet player. I'm elderly. 

One of the people you might know the name of is Eddie Daniels. Do you know Eddie Daniels? I can't say. Charlie's brother. 

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Do you know Eddie Daniels? No, I don't. I wasn't sure if he has a brother or not. 

So I'm assuming when you're talking about high profile, you're talking about clarinet players in the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Right, exactly. Philharmonic or whatever it is like that. 

Exactly, people, soloists who are playing on stages around the world who solo on clarinet when it pops up and you know, people like that. Right. Those are the people that I've primarily helped. 

And what I realized when I got downsized was that I can do this in my sleep. Yeah, it's cool. And I get boxes of chocolates and roses from famous players and that's all kind of cool. 

But you know what? I think I actually need to make market. I need to like get more people doing this. And so I realized I could hand that off to the people out there all wanted to be me and I could start working on the stuff that was, I don't wanna say lower, but stuff that where I could really, really just help them fall in love. 

And that's what I've been doing ever since. And that's where I'm going. Cause I really think it's one way to fight all the problems in the world. 

Just make more music. Yeah. You know? Is there such thing as a clarinet custom shop? There is. 

And I've created it. I mean, really, I was at, I mean. I'm just. 

No, I mean, people have followed in my footsteps really. And I'm really happy to see it. I just wish it's not that I don't wish that. 

In fact, that's what I wanna make more of. But there's just this survival mode right now. And people are just, they're like, they're not nice. 

And the problem is that it's like, can I knock you off? And so I can take your business? You know, instead of like, be friends. Because, you know, similar to how we're sitting around a table, the way that I equate this, if you're listening and you're a musician and you understand what I'm saying, is just turn around the table for the people and look outside and say, now how can we help everybody on the other side of this table that we're not looking at, play the clarinet or play the flute or do this thing. Right? And then we become friends because now we all have a common problem instead of going after the same thing that's in the middle of the table. 

Right? And that's what needs to happen in music. And the whole thing will explode because people love music. You know, musicians are musicians. 

I don't care what kind of musician you are. You have an ego. You know, you really do. 

And people who make musical instruments are just as bad. And in some case worse when it comes to their egos. Because I guarantee if I picked up my phone and I just went to Facebook or did something like that, being a musician, most of the ads that pop up for me are music related some kind of way. 

I would say it's probably, I don't know. I'm almost guessing in a way. But over the course of the last five years, there's been probably a hundred new custom guitar manufacturers, builders that are coming up. 

It's insane. And you know, the weird thing is everybody goes, everybody attacks it where, you know, I think the quality of Fender guitars has gone down. I think the quality of Gibson guitars has gone down. 

Gibson and Fender get picked on the most because they're the gorillas in the room. Right? And what do they do? They make clones of the Stratocaster or they make clones of the Gibson Les Paul. But I can do it better because ours are hand-built and we use these kinds of woods and blah, blah, blah, blah. 

And then you look at it. It's like, okay, you know what? I'd look at an alternative to a Gibson Les Paul. Let me see what, these looks pretty nice. 

What is this? $6,000, hell no. For $6,000, I'm going to buy the Les Paul, right? But the thing was, it's like if you go to NAMM and I'm sorry NAMM, NAMM's got to reinvent itself. God bless NAMM. 

It's changed so much. It needs to become something else, man. But it's not just NAMM's fault. 

I've gone, I live in trade shows. And trade shows just in general have gone downhill. But here's the thing. 

You don't go to the trade show looking for customers. You bring the customers to the trade show and then it rocks because everybody does want to see you and talk to you. And if they're going, they love to have that connection and they will buy from you. 

We don't go to a lot of trade shows, but the ones we go to work for us because we've really built an audience and they want to talk to us, right? So I think that's the key in my opinion. Have you gone to NAMM? You've been there. I was just there last year and I hadn't been in a while. 

And I was just like, I can't believe these people are paying this much money for these halls to be empty. Everybody's on their cell phone. And I'm like, this is not what NAMM used to be. 

And this is not what the industry used to be. And the musicians aren't really understanding this. I feel like this is a big thing that I'm trying to get people to understand and also have some respect for. 

I mean, I have 45 years of industry experience and people say, no, you're wrong. And I'm like, no, I'm sorry, I'm actually not. You know, like I know you like casually buy equipment and you might even buy expensive equipment, but you haven't done what I've done. 

I know something you don't know. And again, I'm not trying to be rude, but it's like, I wish I could get musicians to get this because if they start fixing and selling for these companies they love, they will help turn the whole thing around. Yeah, yeah. 

Well, you know, they need to do something. I mean, you can find anything on the internet nowadays. You know, that's the problem. 

I bet, I've never done it, but I bet you I could Google clarinets and there's a thousand things are gonna come up, right? Yeah, but you won't buy a $10,000 clarinet from somebody you don't trust. I won't buy a $10,000 clarinet, but I know what you mean. But you won't. 

I mean, you won't, you'll buy a $1,000 instrument that's cheap, but if you find someone you trust, you'd be, that who is trustworthy, you would be amazed how much money people will drop. I mean, we've been training repair techs, right? And we see they go in the marketplace with pawn shopped instruments and, you know, they just fix them. They don't feel like, oh, you're, you know, instead they help them. 

Oh, well, let's see if we can get this working for you a little bit. And then, you know, maybe you gotta consider a mouthpiece or do something down the way. And they just keep coming back. 

And about a year later, they're like, you know what? You've been so nice to me. This piece, this is a piece of crap. I'll spend money. 

And then they'll turn around and spend five, six, seven, eight, $10,000 just because they talked to somebody they trusted that nobody was trying to push them. Nobody tried to make them buy something expensive because there's so much product out there. And that really helps because you know, that's what it's about, isn't it? Kind of hanging out. 

Yeah, that is the truth. That is the truth. Man. 

That's pretty much, you know, that way in any business. If you don't push it on the customers, they're eventually gonna buy. Yeah. 

Well, if you help them. And you help, yeah, right. Just let them. 

Meet them where they are. When they're ready. There's a lot to be said for that. 

Just because you wanna sell this $10,000 instrument doesn't mean they want it right now. Right, so that was a really long backdrop to what's the shop like. The shop is like a living room. 

You come into my shop by appointment only so that you can hang out with your family, your friends, and we can all listen and maybe drink something or eat something and just kind of listen and enjoy and figure out what you're gonna sound good on and have it be an experience because that's the only way to buy. And at least when you're dealing with really high and expensive things. And so, and have repair easy available. 

Oh, this is too tight. Let's fix that. So like a custom shop, right? Right, right, right. 

And so we've downsized into that also because it fits a music studio kind of style and you can easily show a musician, hey, you don't have to have really expensive rent. You can teach lessons. You can have some few product. 

We got it down to five products. And the reason we did that is because we want to show people you can just become masterful at a few things, just a few. And you can do really, really well. 

And that I'm trying to model the whole behavior because I really want to see musicians become more successful. And I'd like to see those that are crazy obsessed like I am make more money. Yeah. 

Yeah. I had no idea what to expect with this podcast but I have so many questions talking about clarinets. I mean, I really do. 

I have so many questions. So God, it's like, how many clarinet manufacturers are there, do you think? Every day, another one. Yeah. 

And what's really hard about that is that while people who play the instrument find it's really enjoyable to have a variety of things to try, you know, you can't sustain making all this new stuff and not selling it. Like it's a facade. It's like the wizard in Oz, right? And so it's scary because last year, I think, or the year before there were 76 pages in Upbeat of new product launches. 

It took until page 78 before you got to anything about sales, support, repair, like, and those are actually what's gonna turn the whole thing around. So it's just kind of like, what are you doing guys? You're like pounding your head. I almost feel like they're ODing to be perfectly honest. 

They're so obsessed with product. Yeah. Not right now. 

I mean, I believe in new products, don't get me wrong, but just not right now. We don't need anything new. We need to work on finding more people to do it. 

Right, yeah. And I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole thing because I mean, we can go outside right now and swing a cat and hit a guitar player. Right, that's good though. 

Right? That's good. But you know, we could walk this entire length of the street and you might be the only clarinet player on this street right now. Right. 

So it's like, where are all of these clarinet manufacturers? I guess that's the reason why a clarinet can cost you $10,000 because that might be the only one they sell for three months or something. Right. I mean, that's unfortunately, because I've been at it so long, all of them, there's no one out there, they've all done this. 

They all just kind of just kept raising price because it's, I suppose, hard to convince shareholders or investors that, hey, we have to do some experimental stuff. We have to put clarinets in grocery stores and we have to do new things. And those things are going to be a waste and a bomb and nobody wants to do that. 

Right? And yet the problem is that's what has to happen to try to get people to go, what is that? And then you have to have a pathway to get them further, which is all very expensive. You know, none of that's easy. Yeah, yeah. 

You know, or you need an international superstar that becomes a clarinet player and then all of a sudden everybody wants to be a clarinet player. Right. It was the, a few years ago, there was the, oh gosh, the name is escaping me right now. 

It was Robert Randall and the family band. Remember that? Probably 15 to 20 years ago, he wins a- I remember the name. He wins a Grammy award playing a pedal steel guitar. 

Oh, that's cool. But he's playing like rock, jazz, you know, hip hop on this pedal steel guitar, right? And people realize, well, this isn't just my grandpa's country music instrument anymore. Right. 

And the next thing you know, all these guitar players went out and bought pedal steel guitars because they thought they were going to be the next Robert Randall, you know? But see, here's the thing. Everybody, if you go home and you ask your wife or your spouse or your partner, whoever, hey, do you know anyone who's got a clarinet, flute or saxophone in their attic? You'll find one or more of all of those things, right? Because everybody has played it in like elementary school, one of those three instruments in particular, right? And so it would be so easy. How do you get them going? What's the pathway? Hey, dig that thing out. 

Hey, call Lisa's clarinet shop. You need a sax referral, you need a flute referral. I'll tell you where to go get it fixed up for a hundred bucks just to get you started, right? And let's get you going again because that's the pathway. 

The pathway is unfortunately not that $10,000 cool, not the first step, right? Because we just got to get them wanting to try. Right, and you're not going to be a gigging bar musician playing a $10,000 saxophone. You know, if I'm going to have to fight my way out of a bar one day, I'm going to hit him, go for the head with a plastic saxophone. 

Right, exactly, because it's got to be fun and it can't be scary and expensive. And it just, people don't start anything that way. They start it really cheap on the back of a napkin. 

That's how the best ideas get started. Same thing, you know? Yeah, I've got my gigging guitars and I've got the one that I'll never see the light of day because someone will try and steal it. Right, right. 

So how many clarinets do people usually own? Well, they're obsessed, some of them, like everybody else. Some of them are clueless and so they keep them forever. I mean, some of the best players in the world I had to educate about, I'm sorry, you have to change clarinets every 10 years, maybe five, you're playing a lot, you know? They'll keep them way too long and they're falling apart, but they're so incredibly talented. 

That's the thing about musicians, like hardcore musicians. They're so good. They just overcome all the obstacles, but they don't realize how hard they're working. 

And so that's the whole goal is to get it to be super easy so they just play better, right? And it trickles right down to the bottom, right? Because when you start, if it's my granddaughter, I have a nine-year-old granddaughter and she just started the clarinet and I, you know, I decked her out, I got her an E11 and I put her on a good Van Doren mouthpiece and gave her some good reeds and a ligature and she can make a great sound and she could do it right away and then it gave her confidence to try to make the fingers cover and squeak and not feel so scared because the sounds that were coming out were pretty good. And she doesn't know. I mean, she knows because it's a clarinet chop, but she doesn't really know the real difference, but it's helping her to like it. 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. 

Interesting. I can't believe we're sitting here having this conversation this long about clarinets. I'm so engaged and interested in it. 

Wait till next week and when we bring in the glockenspiel guy. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm totally, my wheels are spinning right now because you mentioned this, I've got a 50 year old auto harp at home. 

Oh, that's fun. Yeah. Do you play the auto harp? You just have one. 

I have one. Well, you know, I probably could because I took, well, my first instrument is the organ. I took organ lessons when I was a kid and I still have my Wurlitzer organ. 

I still have all that in the whole bit. So the auto harp is pretty simple because it's got the chords right there on one button. You hit the one button and it holds down all the strings that you need. 

So, you know, this hand kind of works like the left hand of a piano. And in this one, you can put picks on all your fingers or use a single guitar pick or no pick or whatever. But the thing is so old and it's been sitting for so long, all of those strings need to be tuned. 

And it probably, it definitely needs some service on it. The felts and stuff are getting a little matted down and everything that's on it, but it'd be neat to kind of recondition that a little bit. But to answer your question, because I realized there's a few layers to your question. 

People start on the B flat clarinet, B flat. Oh. They start on the B flat clarinet and that's sort of like your fork, right? And then when you get a little more advanced, you get into orchestra, you need an A clarinet. 

Okay. Right? And then usually about the time you get an A clarinet, you're usually borrowing it because you don't want, nobody wants to spend the money on it. And you kind of get pushed into buying that A clarinet eventually, because it's like this big expensive thing you only use in orchestra. 

Is that then you start to realize that there's this whole competitive world out there and then you go, oh, I need to play something else. And then somewhere in the next few years, you buy an E flat or a bass clarinet. And that's kind of for the people who are like hardcore about wanting to play the clarinet is what they do. 

And if they're not, they buy a better B flat clarinet and keep playing in the band and, you know, do their other stuff, but they keep going. Right? And they play in high school and in college, they play in marching band. They don't major, right? But they just have fun, you know, go to all the parties and get to be with the athletes and they enjoy it. 

Yeah. I thought she was going to say go to all the parties and they're like, hey, get your clarinet out. They might. 

I don't think so. It's probably not what's happening there. Let's pour some beer and see what happens. 

It's probably more scary like that. God, that's funny. That's funny. 

That's amazing. So, you know, I guess my last question is, what do you want people to know about the clarinet? And what do you want people to know about your business? And you've, you know, you've got 30 seconds to bring in a hundred people. How are you going to do it? If you love the sounds of music, let me show you the clarinet. 

If you already play a musical instrument at a high level, let me show you how to make more income. If you are a community and want to build a band, I can teach you how so that you can have more engagement. And Lisa's Clarinet Shop's the place to do it. 

5120 Belmont Road, unit C for clarinet. I should get clarinets. You get clarinets. 

If I come home with another instrument, my wife will kill me. No, no, no. I'm working on the piano now, so. 

Yeah, yeah. But, well, all righty then. How can people find you like social media wise? We're everywhere. 

We're on Facebook. We're on Instagram. We're on LinkedIn. 

Okay, yeah. Sounds good. Well, thanks for coming in, Lisa. 

Thanks for having us. It's been a lot of fun. Now I got to figure out a reason to go and visit the shop or something. 

Anytime, I'll give you a clarinet lesson. We'll go look for that cigar shop. Yeah, that's right. 

And then we'll, yep. Clarinet shop before the cigar shop. And then we'll try and blow smoke through the clarinet area. 

We'll do it right. We will, it's all right. All righty, we're out of here. 

Thanks a lot, bye. The Rock and Roll Chicago podcast is edited by Paul Martin. Theme song courtesy of MNR Rush. 

The Rock and Roll Chicago podcast does not own the rights to any of the music heard on the show. The music is used to promote the guests that are featured. ♪ Rock and Roll Chicago ♪