Realer Than Most Podcast
Here at Realer Than Most Podcast, we believe that hip-hop/rap is more than just music its a cultured lifestyle, and a way of expressing oneself. we are based out of Philadelphia tri-state area that's why we focus on artist who are not only skilled in their craft but also have a unique perspective and voice. our goal is to provide a platform for these rising stars to share their stories and connect with their fans on a deeper level.
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Realer Than Most Podcast
JERRY AND JOE MADE | FEAT . BLACK DENIRO | RTM PODCAST EP.20
Join us for an extraordinary conversation with the legendary Black De Niro, as we unravel his incredible journey from the streets of Philadelphia to becoming a trailblazer in music and film. Black De Niro opens up about his formative years in foster care during the crack epidemic, sharing how these challenging experiences fueled his creative passion and shaped his identity. With inspiration drawn from iconic figures like Muhammad Ali, Black De Niro's story is one of resilience and determination, offering a unique perspective on overcoming life's hurdles and paving the way for others.
Explore the vibrant history of Philadelphia's hip-hop scene as we reminisce about the legendary Batcave Studio era, where Black De Niro and other influential artists crafted their signature sounds. We delve into the heart of the city's music landscape, capturing the essence of collaboration and camaraderie that defined the late '90s and early 2000s. Black De Niro recounts vivid tales of recording sessions and transformative moments that marked his evolution as an artist, while candidly addressing the harsh realities of street life, including encounters with gun violence and legal struggles, that ultimately led to personal growth and artistic authenticity.
But Black De Niro's creativity doesn't stop at music. Listen as he chronicles his seamless transition into filmmaking and entrepreneurship, navigating the challenges of the digital streaming age with a focus on storytelling and community support. From early days of selling DVDs on the road to making waves on platforms like Netflix, Black De Niro shares his insights into the competitive film industry and the unwavering spirit needed to succeed. Packed with personal anecdotes and thought-provoking discussions, this episode captures the multifaceted career of a true pioneer, leaving listeners inspired by his journey and enduring impact.
Really the Moose.
Speaker 2:Podcast I'm Rilla, I'm.
Speaker 1:Outta World Cash.
Speaker 2:I'm White Boy D2A and it's the Rilla the Most Podcast Today. We got family in the building. Man Facts. You already know so like White Boy, you know how we acting with family in the building. Man Facts you already know. So, like white boy, you know how we acting with family in the building.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Lucasa sucasa. This guy we got sitting here with us right now. Man, you can look into your favorite artist catalog and you gonna see him on there.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you even look into the movies.
Speaker 1:You see him out there. There's a lot, there's a lot, a lot and, like I said, just a class at you know, just a quick summary of a legend, a legend in the city. Yeah, a pioneer, yeah, one, one of our, one of our selfless, most selfless ex in the city. You know I'm saying when you come to like giving chances and giving giving lanes and things like that. You know, I'm saying he got to be top three, top two and he not two. You feel me Things like that.
Speaker 1:So you know Uptown my Uptown brother, you know Uptown Uptown in the building F-A-A-A-A.
Speaker 3:Real gentleman. You already know how you see that.
Speaker 1:You already know what it is. We got.
Speaker 2:Black De Niro in the building, y'all.
Speaker 3:Black in the building. Y'all Look, look, look, y'all what?
Speaker 2:y'all don't know the people that's watching. His man is on the board or the cell Facts.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Facts.
Speaker 1:Facts no man.
Speaker 2:Long time friend OG Beach.
Speaker 3:We got.
Speaker 1:Oak on the board, man. This one of them, ones right here, man, how you feeling Cash? Yeah, before we get into, you know we be getting into y'all know our thing, we ask each other how we feeling and everything. I feel great, man. It's just a lot going on right now. Right now, yeah, you know what I'm saying. We really try and get this, this rtm thing, up and running efficiently as possible, and you know we're professional we grow, we growing at a great rate.
Speaker 1:so I feel good about that and, you know, let's just keep the ball rolling. I mean no, no question, that's all.
Speaker 2:How you feeling white boy.
Speaker 3:I feel good, man. I got Black De Niro sitting next to me.
Speaker 2:You know what to do Hell yeah, man, that was real, that was real, hell yeah.
Speaker 3:There ain't too many people that get to do this. They don't even do too much interviews and shit. You know what I'm saying, even do too much interviews and, like you know what I'm saying, I don't be sitting down with it's an honor that, I'm saying, be sitting next to this and then, like you know, technical difficulties he came right back. I respect that, bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for real though um, I'm feeling like, uh, sheesh, I don't even know, man, I ain't got no special words for y'all today, but only thing I can really say, like I just want to work. You know what I mean? Get it. I just want to work, I want to grind and I want to be professional as we grinding too. Man, I want to get it.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of fill to cover. Out there, right, you out there, right? Yeah, I mean my shoes is. I'm ready to run, I'm ready to go, I'm ready to work. That's it. They tied up. My boots is tied, my forces?
Speaker 3:is laced. Whatever you want to say, let's get it how you want to start this off white boy oh, how black you already know we know how black blessed that's where he was going, you know what I'm saying. That's his line. That's it. I'm blessed. That covers it all. Yes, it do yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, it do. Yeah, All right, man, y'all know how we start.
Speaker 2:How we gonna do this, white boy.
Speaker 3:All right. So you know, up here we do our due diligence, up here at Relative Moose. Now, you know, we know, but you know we're going to let the world know where you from. But up to OK, ok, growing up uptown right, it's like, it's different because, like Philadelphia, a hard place to grow up in. Now, man, and growing up, we be having influences and they don't be like the people we see right on TV. They be the people that be like even in our house or right outside our door.
Speaker 4:Give me a few of them I had none you had none no, I had no influences like people that influenced me, uh, like neighborhood wise or streetwise. Okay, you know what I'm saying. I never, I'm not really a influence idol type person yeah, you never really had no idols and I never really had no body really influenced me I had people inspired me right give me a few of them, oh one, if it is I mean if it was, if it was somebody, that inspired me it was something, it was like a entertainer or a celebrity, something like that.
Speaker 3:Okay, like like a muhammad ali okay, okay, okay really for inspiration so you, you're a leader, you, yeah, I make your own.
Speaker 4:I got a song I never had an idol dang okay, it go that deep.
Speaker 3:I ain't, I ain't know that, I ain't know that I know you had a song that I ain't know, that hey yo black is undefeated. I don't got no idols no, that's crazy, though, because you know like so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 2:Black, you do a lot of shit. I wrote stuff.
Speaker 1:Can I fix it? Can I catch it? Yeah, we got the ball rolling.
Speaker 2:I got to catch it Black. You do a lot of stuff, man, so like for you to say that that like cut card deep there.
Speaker 4:Like you said, you don't have an idol, so nobody never inspired you as a young I didn't say that oh all right I said yeah, he said, people gave me inspiration oh yeah, okay you know I'm saying that I, but it's that's for you too okay you know, I'm saying, but not I, I, I don't, nobody.
Speaker 3:So growing up, growing up without me. So basically growing up and and making your own path and building your own lane. Like, how was that? Like, how did you know you had to be a leader early on? Like, was you put in position to be a leader early on? Like, how was your household where, as though?
Speaker 4:like I, don't think, you know, I think it's just something that come about okay, you know what I'm saying. Like I think it's always one in the family that, or sometimes that just be like the one who stand out in certain things, whether it's the athlete, the rapper, the entrepreneur, whatever you know what? I'm saying Entrepreneur, whatever. You know what I'm saying. So I think it was. I'm the oldest boy out of three.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:So you know, I just was always. I always had hustle in me. So for that point, you know what I mean. When we was young, with no food in the crib and no heat, I just knew how to hustle. So that was my natural instinct to grind. Okay, you know what I'm saying Collecting cans, washing cars, cars bagging, groceries, whatever right you feel what I'm saying. So I think you just become that leader by leading, if that makes sense. And I'm saying you don't say I get it like you know what?
Speaker 4:I'm gonna be the leader, I'm gonna lead this family and I'm gonna lead this team and I'm gonna lead these people around me. Yeah, you, just it fall into place, sometimes you don't know it, to you be in the position like I mentioned muhammad ali. He didn't know who he was. He didn't know he was that great till his bike got stolen okay went to the gym and wanted to learn how to fight, but he already had it in him. You know what I'm saying. Right, right, right.
Speaker 3:I don't think I knew okay, okay, yeah, I get that. So, coming up making your own lane and all that, what were um a few of your influences so far? As, like, music wise, like, did you always listen to hip-hop? Was hip-hop always?
Speaker 4:in. You r b hip-hop music.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how old like just grow up, just coming up take me back.
Speaker 4:Oh, big daddy, kane coogee rap, kujirap Run DMC.
Speaker 2:Rock.
Speaker 4:Kim Big L. I'ma go back that far damn you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Big Daddy Kane, was that nigga bro? Yeah, i'ma leave it there damn, it's a lot, i'ma leave it there from when I was growing up.
Speaker 4:Right, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:R&B Bobby Brown, yeah they some heavy, they some heavy people yeah, come up off of it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 3:So. So with those influences, did you uh have like a spark and you wear as though like you always knew, damn.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was from now.
Speaker 1:So all right, so all right. So we did to like this, like probably like what Middle school, high school or it was early on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was middle school.
Speaker 1:Middle school? Yeah, all right. So you know like being as though a lot of people like know who you are not even like mus musically, just in certain neighborhoods, and like I want to touch on that. So like when you was in like middle school, high school, what years are we talking about?
Speaker 4:Middle school.
Speaker 2:What era? Is it 89.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 89. Middle school, 89 middle school, junior high school. Middle school was like what's middle school you?
Speaker 1:like that. You definitely did 12. 80s, 80s, 12, 12, 12, 13. No, no, you sure like 12., 12, 13. Yeah, that's like seven.
Speaker 3:I thought, it was junior high.
Speaker 4:So when is junior high? How?
Speaker 3:old, is 14? No, I dream that's all the same. We was doing junior high and middle school the same shit was that. That's the same.
Speaker 4:You say that no, we had a junior high school.
Speaker 3:I know, you talk about.
Speaker 4:We had a junior high school. What is?
Speaker 3:he talking grade. He asked me you said us, I'm old.
Speaker 2:What grade would junior high school be, though? Sixth grade and up? I'm going to say I was from 12.
Speaker 4:I was from 11 to 12, somewhere like that. That's middle school.
Speaker 1:All right. So basically late 80s, early 90s, so in that time in Philadelphia, how was it?
Speaker 4:I wasn't in Philadelphia. Until I didn't come back to Philadelphia, I was in foster care for two years.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't in Philly.
Speaker 4:No, I was in eastern Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, let's talk about that, how you ended up in foster care Crack epidemic Right I mean the first time people touched crack like for the first time I was around then.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying, so you know it tore the family up, right? You know I'm saying the aunts, the moms, the uncles, all that you feel I'm saying, right. So we went to dhs and then that's how we ended up in foster care for, for like how y'all learned back up my mom.
Speaker 4:Well, my mom got herself right, took my two brothers and my little sister back down south because she was from down south carolina. But I moved uptown. I stayed with my aunt uptown. I don't like it down south. Right shout out down south, but I don't. I didn't like the pace of down south at that time.
Speaker 2:Slow, yeah, it was too slow yeah, and how did you feel about being in that situation while you was in it?
Speaker 4:at first, at first um being in that situation was crazy because you don't know where you're going. You don't even know what's up. Still young, so you don't know what's up with it, why you, you know I mean being taken away from your mom or whatever. So we was like real rebellious. But then I landed with a good foster family, you know, I mean richard, level the levels, and I ended up working for larry holmes. So that was a good experience. I told you I was there when larry fought mike tyson.
Speaker 4:He was in the office after he fought mike yeah, I used to sweep his office and clean his office and stuff that's, that's some fire. That's crazy I didn't even want to leave foster care. It was a debate. When my aunt came to get me I didn't know if I wanted to leave or or stay so you got that comfortable with it.
Speaker 3:I love my foster family.
Speaker 4:I still talk to him to this day then that's fire yeah so so are you.
Speaker 1:You come back to philly at a certain age 14 14, and how? How was it like? How was like, how was it here? Like, like, compared to like, not compared to now?
Speaker 2:it was faster of course, right.
Speaker 4:Well, it wasn't that long because I was only like almost 13 or or just turning 13, went in foster care and got out when I was almost 15. So I was down north philly the whole time off of 28th and Lehigh so I only went away for a little bit right. So when I came back and moved uptown. It just looked different to me because I'm used to. When I'm going back to Philly I'm thinking I'm going back to step, step, step street you know I'm saying you go back, it's uptown sun porch step, step, step.
Speaker 4:Yeah, walk away, step, step, step yeah damn near expressway street you know what I'm saying. I wasn't used to that at that time. I used to go visit up there a little bit, but that's where I thought I was going back to Like no Philly type roots. So it wasn't too much different, it's just. I was just, I didn't like nobody up there at first. I had that perception of uptown too at first.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because I just thought everybody had a silver spoon. So I get it when people portray us like that in that sense at times.
Speaker 3:What they used to.
Speaker 4:I'm pretty sure they don't do that now. You got to be a fool. You changed that. You made that different.
Speaker 3:You made that the reason. That is no. No, I didn't. You helped I'm talking about to the yeah, to the public, so you.
Speaker 4:So you real.
Speaker 1:One thing about you is like I know, this is White boy crazy.
Speaker 3:Like I said, hold on. Niggas weren't really waving Hold up Niggas weren't.
Speaker 2:Niggas weren't openly saying All this shit going on out here. You talking about black. You know what I mean Black like Niggas, weren't?
Speaker 3:openly saying they from uptown and be like I'm from uptown. Yeah, I would say, I would do that. You know what?
Speaker 4:I mean yeah.
Speaker 3:Black was the first person to really be like nigga. I'm from uptown F-A to be exact.
Speaker 1:Like I ain't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely was like my man, it definitely was a you take somebody from South Philly up uptown, they not gonna be able to find.
Speaker 3:Well, you take somebody up there and drop them off. They ain't going nowhere. I mean, now they can, but you know, that's my thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:When you was doing your starting your career off. It wasn't easy to go up there and just be like.
Speaker 3:Hell no.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So like I notice now that you real big on like family, like even with people knowing you, like your brothers and your family. You real family oriented and really stand for something when it come to family. So how was you able to like upkeep that and and and be on that when you went through the whole foster care thing? Is it like because they was like behind you when you was, or like how you was able to obtain that?
Speaker 4:that's always big. On family, though, we had a small family, so it was like my aunt, my aunt, my aunt lois, rest in peace. My aunt lois, she, her, are like. We was raised like sisters and brothers more so opposed to cousins.
Speaker 3:And your aunt, that's your mom's sister.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, so it was us and my brothers and sisters. That was like my.
Speaker 4:First cousins, right that the core of the family, even though we got other family down south and stuff like that. So we was always tight. So family always meant something to us. We had, we got people in our family that do nuts stuff and that crazy and stuff like that, but we never did all of us. So you know, I'm saying it was always me and my brothers and it was always important. So even when I was outside in the streets doing my thing, I always got with my cousins or got with my brothers. Well, we was always together anyway.
Speaker 4:We always did something. That's never changed with us. It was nothing that I had to start doing, like yeah, man, now I just start spending time with my family. Like no, we always did that, broke money in jail, hurting shot up. Whatever was going on, we was always there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was tight. So all right bet. So come back to philly. You know I'm saying what's this?
Speaker 4:the early 90s yeah, it's 91, 90, 91. Yeah, like 91 91, I think I was in there from like 88 to 89 90. I came in the middle of 90 90,. I came back to Philly.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you wasn't doing like the whole street thing, wasn't even in there, all right, so you know, through foster care, crack epidemic, doing what it did to your family through the foster care. Now when is it the point where, like, because you started off early, you know, with the whole like being in the streets thing, what transpired, what was the thing that happened for you to like get involved in certain things in the streets or like, was it just you was just a product of your environment, that type of Basically.
Speaker 4:I mean, I still had a chip on my shoulder when I came home. So uptown you know what I'm saying like, like I said, I'm used to being down north where we was fighting every day and so when you came back from foster care.
Speaker 3:I was uptown sticking up robbing them for their walkmans and stuff like that that's how I just started.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's how I started doing stuff like that and trying to fight and really want to fight up there like that, like I said, it was a fighting thing, angry because I was, that'd be trauma, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 4:I'm saying that'd be like yeah I'm still living in survival mode. I didn't even want to leave his foster family so they ain't mad at that, other stuff, a lot of things going on so, but I didn't really start. I was always me, but I was never like doing nothing in the streets until I was probably like 18, 19. I ain't. I ain't had no juvenile cases or none of that yeah, so all right.
Speaker 1:So you, so you, it was just a urging, you type of drawing just to, and you just was just being around.
Speaker 1:OK, ok. So like this, this, this, where I wanted to get to, before I even get to, you know the stuff, everybody know because we got to walk it down a certain way. So For us, if me, it's just, it's just known for having a certain you know, like structure, structure, protocol, yeah, managed well, like as a neighborhood, like from any way you want to put it, even if it's like when you go there, or just the name, what type of name y'all got? So I wanted to ask you like how and it's not no get down question, but it's like how, how did y'all do things when it was like, did y'all had to prove to certain people y'all was capable? Or it was just like a you in the neighborhood people see you, oh, he lived here for oh, then y'all just meet Like how'd that go down?
Speaker 4:The one thing about Forest Avenue. Then at that time when I first got around there, I just watched the unity. They all had love for each other. It was like, and it was like it was love, but it was still because they was doing their street thing, so it was still like protocol and I guess you could say damn near ranks when, I was around there.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying. So you did have to be like it wasn't. No, yes, man, you couldn't be just a part of Forest Avenue at that time. This was like 91. And I'm just looking and observing who everybody is and knowing who is who, and it was just something that I saw that I liked.
Speaker 4:I'm like damn, these dudes is like tight you know, I'm saying so, that it was, yeah, you couldn't just just be a part of it. I had to work my way into being there, just being myself, though. Yeah, you know I'm saying not like how other people do it. I had to work my way into being there, just being myself, though. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Not like how other people do it, like you got to go commit this act and all that, like no, it's just like if something happening, if somebody rumbling I don't even know all these niggas, I know one or two of them I'm jumping in. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Other things, I'm doing that with you when your aunt came to get you and then you came back and went to uptown and hold the whole forest where? Where was your mom and dad at that time?
Speaker 4:I don't know where my dad was at at the point. At that point I ain't with my dad till I was like 18. My mom was down south. My mom took my brothers down south, so it was just me and my aunt you know what I'm saying and my uncle. Okay, okay, okay, so it was like just me and my dad, my only child. My cousin used to live there.
Speaker 1:So you was uptown for high school. What high school did you go? To King King.
Speaker 4:But I went to King when it was like lean on me, king.
Speaker 4:No, explain that no, explain, explain it. I know what you're talking about. Go ahead, talk about it like when you can. I I took a gun to school, a little 25. You can get robbed in the stairway, be gambled in the hallways, radio smoking in the bathroom, smoking walking king was bad. It wasn't like that when I initially got there, maybe around 92 ish. It started getting like that In 93,. It was crazy. We had over 1,000 ninth graders and then Eastside used to run the damn school because they were so deep and it was right there in their neighborhood, so people used to leave the door open and all their homies used to come in, everybody gambling in the bathrooms and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying. But I got my respect from Forest Avenue too, from rumbling niggas from Eastside and other places, like any neighborhood you was from.
Speaker 4:I didn't care where you was from and that's how they paid attention to that Some of the people that my man, ant that gave me the name Black, from Forest Avenue, was paying attention to how I was carrying it in school, cause I used to hang with Nicetown. I used to be on hick street, I used to leave king and go to and go to forest avenue at first, I used to go down hick street and be down there.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay. So before forest avenue it was here, it was hick street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me uh ask you something. Your man named you black. Why he named?
Speaker 4:you black.
Speaker 1:He just started introducing me like that and I was like bro, stop calling me that introducing me as black oh, it's my man black, and I'm like, bro, stop calling me that. Introducing me as black oh, it's my man black, and I'm like crazy man.
Speaker 4:Then after a while I used to be really upset about it at first and then after a while it just just stayed so so you might as well, just tell us how you.
Speaker 1:While we on that, you might as well just tell us how you got De Niro De.
Speaker 4:Niro came way later on down the line. He started calling me black in 91, and I ain't accepted until almost 92. And I was just like all right, just call me black. And then in 99, he came out and Robert De Niro was one of my favorite actors so I just combined it.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, Damn, that's a whole.
Speaker 2:Okay, so all right man, let's get into it man.
Speaker 1:We going to get into it. So middle school, high school, you know.
Speaker 4:High school was crazy.
Speaker 1:High school was crazy. Lean On Me, king, all that, yeah, I was kicked out and all that. For real.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm. We had a principal named Mr Jones and Mr Minastri. They took us on stage and kicked us all out, just like on. Lean On Me, dang.
Speaker 2:Tell me if I'm speeding bro.
Speaker 1:When you write your first rap. That was easy to get right into that.
Speaker 2:You was 10? Yeah, I was like 10. When you start feeling yourself, though, like as an artist when you start recording.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like that though, like as an artist, when you start recording, yeah like that.
Speaker 4:I don't remember when I started recording. I really wish I could remember the first time I ever recorded.
Speaker 3:So you recorded you was recording before that off the hook shit yeah.
Speaker 1:God damn, Hell you speed.
Speaker 2:You speed, hell you speed, I don't know when.
Speaker 3:I started recording. Like the trunk popped open.
Speaker 2:No, he was there, though I wanted the no no no, he's doing it, white boy, he just wrapped it right. All right, all right, he just said it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he just said walk because all right, so so, so middle school, so middle school, high school you been was rapping. Yeah, first, first rap was 10.
Speaker 4:the rat was rap. When I really started like feeling myself was like 14, 15. Okay, so so was there any battles? No, not at that, not at that point, like you never had to go head to head. Yeah, I had to battle a lot. I never battled there like at that. At that point I used to go to king and just rap and people just like to hear you rap at that point, if you can rap like right, everybody, just be around, you'd be loved.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying when you're rapping. And then we started battling. I started battling like people in the hood, but our battles was like the way we battle in philly yeah, I know schemes and angles and all that. We just rap whoever got the best rap.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, and yeah, let's talk about this, and this might tell your age, and I don't care.
Speaker 4:I already should know.
Speaker 2:I said Bobby Brown, look, we talk about when you first went in the studio, right, I know you probably don't remember the song or the rap and when you first recorded it. But how was the recording process Like? Because it's not the same. It can't be no.
Speaker 4:I think the I think the very first person I probably recorded with was my man, Ted Live.
Speaker 2:We was in the in the basement.
Speaker 4:We had tapes, though that's what I was going to say Was it tapes?
Speaker 3:We had tapes. Yeah, it was no CDs, yet they had the recording one time what you talking about tapes.
Speaker 2:Tell them, break it down you got to know your rap. You was able to punch your. It's like know your song bro.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you was able to punch it. We just had tapes. We didn't have your record. Your joint was on the tape.
Speaker 2:Break it down. How you had to go in there, though, break it down, let him know.
Speaker 4:We ain't had no booth or nothing, we just rapped. We just rapped, had the tape. Would have to like if he had no new tape, like the tapes came in the joint, then he used to have to take an old tape. Put some tissue in the top of the joints.
Speaker 2:Put some scotch tape over the joint and duplicate the joints. Yeah, look at this.
Speaker 3:Sound like some caveman, like which I was like bro everybody in the house was doing that like that already with the two tape, john, you got that one, john.
Speaker 1:I had a radio with the two tape, john.
Speaker 3:You got the beat playing on one, john.
Speaker 4:And then we started.
Speaker 1:Bro, you would have loved these songs though I don't even remember when CDs came about really. You don't know when CDs came about.
Speaker 2:Damn. No, I forgot.
Speaker 1:So hold on All right, all right, that's funny, all right so when did you like? All right, this is what, before I introduce the thing that I want to introduce. When did you decide you going to take rap seriously, like when?
Speaker 4:you like. This is really what I'm going to do. It's two steps of me taking rap serious. One was I was rapping, rapping, just meeting everybody. Um, I met my man tarik, mustafa doc holidays. This team called illegal businessman from chewing shelton and he was like crazy, crazy and I bumped into him in school and he was so fired. I'm like damn, because I was arrogant, because I was like trashing everybody in the school except him. I'm like damn. So I'm rapping for a while and I was happy about rapping but I didn't know nothing about nothing, no business.
Speaker 4:I didn't know, how to count bars, none of that. So I'm just rapping just to be, because it's the thing to do and it felt good. So I started trying to take rap serious. I started trying to take rap serious a little bit when I first met my man M with Off the Hook Entertainment. That's when I started taking it serious a little bit, Because then I felt like I had somebody to back the play, right Okay.
Speaker 2:What you do so extravagant for him to even y'all to put the bag to play and all that.
Speaker 4:I just rapped for him. That was in 99. I had just changed my name in 99 and then I met him like three months later. Two months, two, three months later.
Speaker 2:And you were Black, de Niro, at that time.
Speaker 4:I just turned myself Black De Niro and then my man, his cousin, took me up to him and I rapped for him and that was it, and I was the second member of Off the Hook Entertainment.
Speaker 1:So for those of y'all don't know, because that's how I heard a black man- for you, for those of y'all who don't know, and I know some of y'all don't know, because I just found out, because you damn near joined it the year I was born. So off the hook entertainment. Shout out, meech, it's basic M3. Oh yeah, I can Lil T. Everybody Shout out everybody.
Speaker 1:Black De Niro, and I always see this being from Uptown. You linking with them even shows how more of an active person you was back then. But Off the Hook Entertainment is a South Philly-based group slash record label that was founded in the late 90s.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we didn't even last long. We just made a quick impact and then slid and big south philly impact crazy.
Speaker 1:Uh, black de niro got down with them. Meech was a part of them.
Speaker 2:Uh, oh man they had a lot going on, man.
Speaker 1:The artists y'all know now was definitely making songs with them, man from, oh no, from did he was part of it, from people that was on state property and also.
Speaker 3:Gilly from the figures man.
Speaker 1:They was in that mix. At that time, oskeno first piece song ever was Off the Hook Black Dinero. Oskeno M3.
Speaker 4:First time I met Gilly, he did a song with M3. We was all there, yeah.
Speaker 1:So so. So yeah, it was so fully based.
Speaker 4:But then we had Cyphers after that. That's how Gil and them started knowing me. I had just had a hernia operation and we was all rapping Gil, dutch, bianca, me and the whole off the hook and everybody ran out of gas and off the hook and I'm sitting down still going crazy how that went. That's how me and gil got tight. That was crazy. That's how me and oskino got tight right. It was a legal business man.
Speaker 4:It was off the hook entertainment everybody rap on that side and everybody run out of gas except oh or maybe go bra and speed and then the only people, the person that didn't run out of gas over here was me. Yeah, and that's how me and O exchanged numbers. So who's 99. Yeah, who was the first member off the hook? M3.
Speaker 2:M3.
Speaker 1:M3.
Speaker 4:Shout out to my guy M didn't have that. He had that voice and that charisma, but he didn't have that. I was from the street, yeah, so I was talking crazy. Yeah, so I was talking crazy. Yeah, and I had rats for days, yeah, so that's how I ended up. That's how I said anything play ball and you play ball, you're gonna link up with the guy that can play ball, you botch, you rap yeah, you know what?
Speaker 4:I'm saying people just act like I didn't earn my spot in rap man. I don't know why some people do, but they know what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had a single. You had a single track on the whole tape. I remember you had like a your own single on the whole, off the hook drawing.
Speaker 1:It was like now you and them three back.
Speaker 2:It was like both of y'all back to back on that on them tracks. Yeah, uh, shout out to everybody from off the hook, man, yeah, so give him a round of applause you guys gotta explain to us how that was, though.
Speaker 1:What Off the hook? I mean like y'all made a big impact. Man, like I just want to know, like Especially from my heard I didn't stay around.
Speaker 4:I'm only on like the first. It's two tapes, right, yeah, but I'm only. I'm on like out of 17,. I'm on like 15 of the first tape. Then other things started to inspire double cd the next one, I wasn't. I was on that, john, like three times I was. I was going, but I was out of town by then. I did why you?
Speaker 1:why you get up out of there?
Speaker 4:man listen, we was really. We was rapping for real. I started rapping for real. Yeah, that was it Like I wasn't really there, so then after that it was like done yeah. You know, what I'm saying. By that time I'm back uptown just doing making my own mark. I brought out a joint called Word on the Streets.
Speaker 1:I'm hot With like five drinks on it and I'm just getting my money doing my thing thing up there yeah, yeah, yeah, and I ain't gonna lie like it's, it's beautiful, man, that uh, like you can even sit here and talk about like mid late 90s, like, feel me, and I was about to say the same- thing I was about to say listen, don't get it when people, when I talk in interviews and people, because I'm never going to try and be portraying something that I'm not right.
Speaker 4:So when people do interviews they be trying not to show their age. I love showing my age.
Speaker 4:I love showing my age because I done been in the most traumatic situations ever and I could have died over a gillion times. I done been in so many rooms where bullets start flying. I done been in so many shootouts. I done been shot. I done been upstate cfcf dc, all upstate road. It's like the the situations that I've been in in my life and I had money on my head twice by the one of the top dogs in in philly. Like so many things that I've done, it's that's one that's of many reasons to be blessed to still be here. The other reasons is I got to see things you feel what I'm saying that a lot of people won't get to see like.
Speaker 4:I just watched something on youtube today with his dude turned 114 years old. He said he got to see the first car. It was no cars, no airplanes. He got to see all that. To me that's crazy. That's that's amazing to me. I got to see kids jumping rope, playing hopscotchotch jacks high and go seek freeze tag games that we played, the things that we did. There's none of that, no more. I seen new dances come. When you got a pair of Adidas and shell tops, you was dead. What Now? It's just like if you go get some Adidas, you just got some. You feel what I'm saying. So I watch a lot of things come into play. I watch a lot of trends come and go. I watch it come back around the flat tops, the dreads the locks.
Speaker 1:I watch it.
Speaker 4:Come back around, the, the flat tops, the cuts in your eyebrows, all that I watch come back around. We have break, dancing, popping, things that they don't have no more. You know, I'm saying I watch, I had good music, we had good music, good, good rap. Listen, I just seen a lot of things Kids played. A lot of kids was kids, whereas though they not like that. So I seen so much man I love it, and there's so many people that's dead and gone and in jail that I grew up with. Bro, like man, listen, it's crazy, I can't even count it. So it's like you know what I mean. Man, listen, it's crazy, I can't even count it.
Speaker 3:So it's like that's, that's that's.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I'm happy to be my age.
Speaker 4:I love every bit of it.
Speaker 2:So now you hold on, make sure we share, like, subscribe, comment, and if you don't, you're a motherfucking hater Wow, Because it's free y'all you already know, man. And look, we just got finished talking about Black being with Off the Hook Entertainment, moving on out of there and getting into a story about everything he's been through.
Speaker 3:So, white boy, where we going at from here? So you back up your way, you start making your own name and now you putting out solo projects. Now it's time to really write. Now it's time to really pick these beats. Now, what's your record process now?
Speaker 4:It was already time to really write. When I met Siegel OK in ninety, nine, like that's when it was really time to really rap. When I met seagull okay in 99, like that's when it was really time to rap. When I bumped into him and nikki flowers and ricey and murder mill, that's when I knew it was time to rap, rap, like you know what I'm saying. And they, the, they, the guys that and gill I ain't gonna lie and gill.
Speaker 4:Those are the guys that made me say hold on, like yeah, you ain't gonna play with me, right? Yeah, you know what I'm saying. And then I'm just rapping. I'm up there by myself rapping and then I end up going to bat cave before it was bat cave. Boom, yeah, boom, linking up with rug. Shout out to rugg, yeah shout out rugg rugginess that this.
Speaker 2:That's when the recording process was crazy then because it was more experienced.
Speaker 3:Rug knew a lot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, rug knew how to put everything on what you was doing. You know, what I'm saying, and that's when it wasn't even no name.
Speaker 2:Nobody else had that sauce that Rug had on a recording.
Speaker 3:With you getting into the Batcave and you recording in there and by that being one of the hottest studios in the city and Rug being one of the best engineers and producers in the city. You got the likes of Garci, Meek Mill, Mike Knox, Ready, Ready Rock, Preem it's just like illustrious list of rappers out of the city, in and out, in and out, in and out Gilly. So just tell me how that was just being able to see those guys on a daily basis, they working on something you be able to get on or you working on something you know they getting on Talk about that.
Speaker 4:First it wasn't a lot of people at first. It was like gill was always around. The main one I told y'all before the back here was was named, was called, and rug was ain't even had no name for it. He was about to call it insomnia and then gill looked around and was like that's a dumb name, you know I'm saying you need to call it something like the bat cave. That's how the bat cave came about. Yeah, you know I'm saying so.
Speaker 3:It wasn't so gil named the bat cave.
Speaker 4:Gil named the bat cave. That's how. That's how the bat cave came about.
Speaker 1:And then I was just in there all the time rapping and rap.
Speaker 4:But at this point I know gil, but I don't so we don't really we see each other every day. You feel I'm saying because it was before you even got to 10th and Shelton. It was somewhere else at first I forgot the other place. It was before 10th and Shelton.
Speaker 4:By 10th and Shelton we acquainted okay you know I'm saying okay and he just be like yo, you, you be having some, some shit. I mean, hop on something. That's when he got on superman remix, yeah, yeah, but before that it was just like up until that point was superman your biggest record yeah, it was. It was because it was more it was commercial, and it was more it reached more people. So I would shout out the rug.
Speaker 3:Rug did that though, too yeah, how was that developing your relationship with Kev?
Speaker 4:That's how I met Kev Superman. Yeah, he called me or whatever and started playing Superman or whatever on the radio.
Speaker 1:So wait, what year was Superman? Oh?
Speaker 4:five.
Speaker 1:Why you speeding like that? Yo when oh?
Speaker 4:five Yo. Oh, because I said 05?
Speaker 2:Yeah, superheroes 05. We kicked back five years.
Speaker 4:Oh, all right, all right, all right, All right, all right all right, All right Speeds.
Speaker 3:He brought up Superman.
Speaker 1:Oh, all right, all right, so hold on right.
Speaker 3:I asked him, was that his biggest record to date? That's it, oh all All right.
Speaker 1:So look right, All right.
Speaker 3:So after all kiddo after off the hook. No, because you are sitting back. You are laid back. Get right, baby.
Speaker 1:Because you said Kev, you said we was not we over here.
Speaker 3:All right, so we over here.
Speaker 2:So after off the hook Right Right.
Speaker 1:When he said you, the solo projects and everything. You know what I'm saying. After that was it like after you got off the hook thing, was it like slow for you? Or it was like now you just got the name, you just running now.
Speaker 4:It was never slow because the answer to the other part of the question I just remembered I didn't take rap serious the whole time I was rapping. I didn't take rap serious until the tail end and I felt like it was almost too late and I got to get it now. But the whole time I was rapping when y'all was hearing me, the whole time during Batcave days, even when they was on the radio, the whole time I was on Power 99 doing the come-up show. The whole time I was rapping and on the radio, rap bashing and everything that I was doing. I was just having fun. I wasn't taking none, I just knew I was going to rap and the world was going to like and I do it for the world because the fake gonna follow. That was it. I was just having fun. I wasn't taking it serious to get no deal because I my money was already straight, so I didn't really care I wasn't taking it serious at all, bro.
Speaker 4:Everybody used to tell me I should take it serious, but I just didn't. Yeah, I wasn't, I was just having fun. I was just I like to go and and go out and spend ten thousand dollars on clothes and belts and and shoot a video. That was my fun. You know what I'm saying. So I didn't really care. It ain't really. Even when I was on Big Star and all that Star used to call me to come do them drinks, I used to just come do it, just because.
Speaker 1:Big Star, that's.
Speaker 4:Too raw for the streets. That was too raw for the streets, yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright, yeah, so we in the DVD or whatever that is.
Speaker 4:That's why I wasn't on too many DVDs.
Speaker 2:I just the dvd or whatever. Yeah, I was. That's why I wasn't on too many dvds. I just knew he had a big dvd. He was on a few dvds, though I mean because people started coming into the back that's what we talk.
Speaker 4:Star wars first right so I was other people, but I just wasn't doing them. I did it because I had just bought a brand new burgundy q45 with dubs on it right and a new watch. I just pulled up on it. I remember that and this was the. This was the dvd ever like too raw and things like that.
Speaker 1:I pulled up in a burgundy q45 with dubs, and I had two trucks, okay, okay, so it sounds like the minute you got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not. It sounded like to me that you know it was a point where, like after Off the Hook, you wasn't really worrying about rap like that. I was just having fun bro.
Speaker 4:I was having fun. Listen, I tell people all the time I had the intro to the 8 o'clock mixtape show. Well, let's back up. I had the intro to the Hot Boys 6 o'clock show. Then two hours later, I had the intro to the 8 o'clock mixtape show. Then two hours later, if it was a Friday, I had the intro to the come-up show, and that ran for two years straight. I had all three intros on the radio and I still didn't care.
Speaker 3:I was just having fun the Hot Boyz that show. That's the biggest one I was having fun.
Speaker 4:And I just knew people wasn't going to out rap because a lot of people was fraud, and so I used to just say stuff. You know how I used to say it Rapping about your watch and your chain Don't even got one on, like I used to be having all of it on while I was rapping, so it was just fun to me bro.
Speaker 2:It was fun, so we going to speed it up then. Then he was just having fun around this time spending money. You know running in the streets, you know switching up cars when you feel like it.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the not fun then. Let's talk about the not fun. Let's speed up to your case, man. So you crashed out. Yeah, it was everybody, and I'm from uptown, so this was a known thing. You know what I'm saying let's talk about that. So what was that day like? Take us through that day, you know.
Speaker 4:The first one when I went upstate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I had just turned 25. I had just bought a 4.6 Range Rover off M, just got a new watch, new chain, had like an eight ounce bottle of juice on me. I was riding uptown.
Speaker 2:What was it, though? What was it purple?
Speaker 4:It was real purple, not green shit and all that stuff. It was purple pro, meh, it was pro meh, it was pro meh why I?
Speaker 4:um, I was riding around that day but I felt like something was gonna happen. I had like a dark cloud over me. That's why, when people say money can't bring you happiness, it really can't. You know, I'm saying, for some reason I just didn't feel like myself. It was like I got all this money. I had like $30,000 in the armrest. I just had money and I didn't feel complete for some reason. And that was the day my daughter's, my kid's mom got snatched in our apartment. Damn, she went home and put the key in the joint. Somebody snatched open the door, kidnapped no, they ain't kidnappers. She's like who you wear black at. Okay, they snatched open the door, kidnap no, they ain't kidnappers.
Speaker 1:She's like who you wear black at OK.
Speaker 4:And then they snatched her in the crib. Ah, some painted food, yeah, she fought them off, and when she fought them off, one of them dropped his burner, came back, picked it up, left, and then she called the cops and then when I got there that's when it began, Because they had no search warrant, but they went in took my save, took the burners and all that stuff and I got booked. Oh, what Slow down?
Speaker 1:You speeding like a mech.
Speaker 2:God, that's not me, and that's what happened. You told it so fast.
Speaker 4:That was crazy. I mean, I told this story so many times, so I'm just giving it to you like that. That's what really happened, no-transcript. They just looking around like God, I know what he doing and they just took my safe. They finally got the safe cracked open and they you know what I'm saying. That was it, and I went to jail.
Speaker 1:So for somebody trying to rob y'all, you went to jail, I went to jail for somebody trying to rob me and I had to get two lawyers Brian McMonagle, arnold Silverstein.
Speaker 4:Um, I had both lawyers because I had to go to jail because every you know everything was in the woman and everything was in her name. At that time I ain't had nothing legal, you know what I'm saying. So they was going to throw her on the roof. So I had to take the case. So she didn't go to jail. So I went upstate. But I used to always be like damn, they got the search warrant.
Speaker 4:After they took this, I went to jail for somebody else trying to rob this. I decided the third. But at the end of the day, when I came to the realization and start really thinking I had to charge that to the game, because we say, charge it to the game but we never really charge it to the game. That's charging it to the game like if I would have never been in the game and somebody would have tried to rob her and they came in the crib, they wouldn't have found nothing and I would have never went to jail. So when you in game, it don't matter how you get caught. You're going to be a man telling on you. It could be you get chased. It could be a crooked cop, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:None of that would have happened if you wasn't in the game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you in the game.
Speaker 1:That's what happens you go to jail your bitch get fucked.
Speaker 4:Niggas be mad about it.
Speaker 1:That's part exempt from it. You know what I'm saying. So it's like everything you do is part of the game. I never heard nobody break it down like that, like people always say, uh, they want to blame it on this person I used to do that.
Speaker 4:I knew I shouldn't. Yeah, she told me to leave my gun in the crib this day if you wasn't in the game yeah you wouldn't even never have a gap oh no, no, no, I ain't not.
Speaker 1:No, no, no.
Speaker 4:I ain't out that far, where you going that far, black Knight, I ain't out of the game that far.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about different type of like.
Speaker 4:I'm talking about different type of individuals though Feel me, yeah, but that type of situation, yeah, Even the second case to answer your question, the second case.
Speaker 2:I was want to speak on gun violence. Real quick, man, not to take you off your story. Real quick man, but when was the first time you thought you needed a pistol, bro?
Speaker 4:when I went to King nigga. I just told you for real 17.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what was the situation? You, it was.
Speaker 4:No, it was the situation like people getting no, it was the situation like people getting robbed Eastside 30 deep beating niggas up and all of that Like I'm not. I wasn't. I was always like that.
Speaker 1:Like I wasn't playing for that. Yeah, I'm gonna.
Speaker 4:My mom raised men, but that's why I don't believe when they say a woman can't raise a man. And you can, because I was raised by women. It's you can because I was raised by women. I think it's possible, right, I knew my mom took me everything like, if you're gonna run, we already naturally knew how to fight for some reason me and my brothers, right. But, bro, I'm not, I'm not playing when we fight. If I can't beat you, bro, I'm gonna stab you. If I can't stab you, then I was gonna shoot you. If I can't shoot you, I was gonna bite you. I was gonna do whatever I had to do. That's how I was. So if I see things acting like that and I already seen y'all beat a nigga into a coma that's not gonna be me. Because I had a 25, I was gonna clap one of them niggas that's how I thought.
Speaker 4:You know I'm saying that's how. First I was taking a little knife to school. You feel what I'm saying? And then after that somebody was in a high-speed chase that's how I got my first joint and they bent the corner and john came out the window and I found it and it was a little chrome 25. That's how I had my first joint and I used to take that during the school. I wasn't just like, yeah, looking at it and mining it, I just had it like okay, let them do what they did to that board other day with me. That's how I was thinking about so it wasn't really no, and then you know where we live at, bro. And after that it's just like is it me? Then?
Speaker 1:you know where we live at, bro, and after that it's just like it's me. Yeah, I want um, that was a great uh question and answer to that question, yeah uh, so you, what was you?
Speaker 4:you said the second case. What, what happened? The second case I was in a high speed chase. I had just bought a q45, uh, burgundy, the burgundy truck, the xfinity, I had that for a little bit and, um, that was right after the. Joan had to name some of my cars. Man, I had the 04 max and 04 the white, all white puppy. When they first came out, the 05 joint, I mean yeah, and then what's up video with me, me, dunny, and all of them I had just bought that and um.
Speaker 2:We had I was in a high speed chase man.
Speaker 4:I was in a high speed chase um because they was looking for somebody else, not me, that I resembled. Once again I was in the game, though you know I'm saying, but this time they put something in my joint this time yeah, this time they put something. All right, wait, wait in my car why are?
Speaker 3:you going to?
Speaker 4:chase, you had something on you. No, when they put, when I first went to park, the car spent around me and jumped out. That was the boy reed, the cop reed that was terrorizing the city but, he.
Speaker 4:I never seen him before, so he just looked young. He had a t-shirt on no badge out true religions on. So the game that I'm in, I'm always thinking that somebody, any day, somebody can run up on you or they on me. I still think like I always pay attention because people get caught slipping. On any phones. People get slipped like.
Speaker 4:I just thought when I pulled up and I was seeing that happen, I'm like there they go. You know, I'm saying I never panic, like oh shit, I just saw him like damn, there they go. Like, and I ain't had nothing on me so I'm thinking like I'm out of here. You know, I'm saying. Then I realized as I'm driving I started thinking damn, both of them doors open simultaneously. Street niggas don't really do that, not in sync, like that. That's some cop shit, you feel. I'm saying I'm just saying wow, and he was out together. And then I peeped how they was holding the guns. But before I wasn't thinking like that, I just seen two young dudes and guns. So I'm out, but I'm trying to make it to forest avenue because if I know, if I get off my block and make it to Forest, all I got to do is stop and see that I'm being chased.
Speaker 2:You ain't give them even time to say police or nothing.
Speaker 4:No, they ain't say that Right Now. I realize that's who on me. And I crashed out on that joint and they knew that they was chasing me. And they wasn't supposed to be chasing me because it was in an undercover car and they made me crash out, bang into a lady, her bone popped out of her leg and all of that. So they put something in my car oh.
Speaker 1:OK, that's why I always, when people say things, I always say elaborate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they put something in my car and they had to put a case on me.
Speaker 1:Damn why you ain't never. Nah, mom, I'm speaking. I was going put something in my car and I had to put a case on me. Damn why you ain't never. Nah mom, speed. I was gonna say something about it that would have been crazy if you would have.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know she's talking about all right, all right all that's gonna come along when the when the movie come about my life okay okay biopic yeah okay, so, um, so you, so you go, you go up.
Speaker 4:I fought that one for five years. Five, six years. I fought that case but I ended up getting house arrest. But I quit the game after that Because when that case comes, you got to think this is 2010. I've been grinding since 2001. So they already on my body because I'm buying all these cars, all this jewelry, all this other violence is happening, and they from far. So it all falls on me because I'm the face of the block. So everything's already transpiring. You feel I'm saying so. They already on me about everything. Anything that happened is my fault. You know. I'm saying so. I quit because now you had the boys talking, the commissioner is talking, everybody saying my name. I'm done. So I never. I never touched nothing again. I never middle man, nothing. I never touched nothing, I never did nothing.
Speaker 1:I quit so when, you so so when you go up.
Speaker 4:I went upstate in 2003 from the first case when my baby mom got snatched all right, so that case yeah, I only went to jail, bailed out, fought the case for five years. But you know, when you fight a case for five, six years and you maintain a job and stay out of trouble and got something to bring back I'm talking to every juvenile facility and I got something to bring back to court like I ain't juvenile facility and I got something to bring back to court, like I ain't catch cases along the way.
Speaker 1:I'm not smoking.
Speaker 4:I'm not drinking, yeah, I'm not. I'm just because I'm really done. You feel what I'm saying and I'm making progress on things too. Now, now I'm coming back to court with films, and you know what I'm saying. Saying I'm coming back to court with stuff. Now, right, I'm coming back with things like like good things, positive stuff you know what I'm saying, so it's like I just got house arrest so I knocked it off okay, so that's the second one.
Speaker 1:So well, I'll go back to that. So the first one at 03. And you went up right and where you go, you go.
Speaker 4:I went to Camp Hill. I ain't make it past Camp Hill. I went the greatest for it than Camp Hill, and Albion would have been my jail if I wouldn't have completed boot camp. I went to boot camp.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, and just you, like you know, just you being in there and you know it's 2003. You being in there? How know it's 2003, you being in there? How did how? What was you thinking? Because I know a lot of people like see, see, I know a little, I know a lot about that gel stuff, unfortunately, and I know it could even make you or break you, like literally it was right up my alley bro.
Speaker 4:I don't, I don't fear no human bro yeah so it didn't do nothing. Yeah, make me or break me. I just knew, when I come in there, I'm not playing. We're not even gonna play right we're not gonna argue, we're not gonna play, we're not gonna joke too much, you're not gonna play with me. I don't care where we at, so that's just how it was. When I go in there, I'm like I am out here yeah if I'm saying if you cool and you hurt.
Speaker 4:And I was paying his phone bills, light bills, getting money sent to the uh, to the they baby moms from my folks, and all that just making sure people eat, paying commissary. But I also was punching on everything too, if I had to right so you know what I mean. It don't matter big, small, tiny. I don't just, I'm just not going for that you know what I'm saying so.
Speaker 4:That's just how it is, and you know they check them drones at the door. So if you can't beat me with your hands, it's gonna be hard to beat me with a knife, because I got one too so that's just how it was. It was just like and you mind your business and know that you not playing, and that's just how it's gonna go, either one way or the other. So so they you know what I'm saying. It made me smarter, though, to be like man.
Speaker 4:I ain't trying to come back in here because it's corny yeah, you know what I'm saying it's corny, you ain't having no fun, you're not seeing your family, you're on the phone, you ain't getting no cheeks, you can't it's like you can't take it in private. It's like it's just a lot, bro, so I like man, it's like it's a lot bro.
Speaker 1:So I'm like man, it's corny, you were still writing music.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was rapping circles around everybody in Camp Hill when I came home. That's when I really got serious. When I came home, I turned black to narrow but I went straight to jail Because Ace wanted me to be. What was that again?
Speaker 3:Take Down Records Take Down.
Speaker 4:Records For real. Yeah, ace, ace wanted to be Take Down Records. He offered me 10 grand, but I was like I already had 10 grand.
Speaker 2:That would have been all that from off the hook. I had 10 grand.
Speaker 4:He tried to offer me 10 grand and also I didn't want to take his money because I knew I was fighting the case right, you feel what I'm saying, so better be glad I became Black De Niro when I came home. That's when all the Supermans I'll be on my grinds. That's when all that started happening.
Speaker 1:And that's perfect, because I don't like talking about jail.
Speaker 4:That's perfect, we just going. That's why I never rap about it.
Speaker 1:Yo, my man, he did what he did. He did his time, that's it. We not talking about jail story. So when you stabbed him, he slipping.
Speaker 4:We, you notice the things I never rapped about, bro being in foster care, really being shot, really going to jail. I never rapped about things like that. Like Seagull did, he gave you his pain.
Speaker 2:You met rappers in jail though, Like that you know out here now no the first rapper I met was in 99, was like Gil and them.
Speaker 4:Like Gil and Oski, though Only two as a matter of fact Besides like Murder Gil and them. Like Gil and Oski Only two as a matter of fact, Besides like Murder Mill and them I'm talking about that, really, what you call it. Still to this day I never met Most Wanted.
Speaker 1:Bubonic or Mr, I've never met them.
Speaker 4:I had when I came home, the very first person I met- as soon as I came home. I wasn't home home for a minute and I met P Crack. He was back, shrimpies, he was with my man Go Down. He had his gold plaque for the joint with him and Neo Crack have his feet on and he heard about me from being in the street and he jumped right in my first video call.
Speaker 4:You can bet that it wasn't YouTube yet either. So you can bet that video was on a disc. We ain't had YouTube. That's when I met crack. Then I knew oh, so I called oh and oh came down and got in the same video with me. So wait, did you? You put them two together. No, oskino was just came down and got in the video because I called him oh, I was fresh home and crack.
Speaker 4:I met him that night then. Then I met I met Siegel in 99, though I knew Siegel before I went to jail. Met him through fool, fool bang. Yeah, and that was it. I met freeway when I came home. Like later on, down the line, me and freeway really start getting super tight until on the set of streets.
Speaker 3:The movie okay.
Speaker 4:It's just set of streets. I met Everybody else throughout the DVD era. Like a lot of people come in the Batcave, we would meet each other yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 4:Because I can't pinpoint when I met everybody but I was making my own name and when you make your own name and I wasn't asking nobody for nothing. So when I was doing my own thing, by the time I called somebody and asked them if they or what somebody was like. Yo, you want to be on?
Speaker 1:this song, like this boy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like I called siegel we was on the phone with me gilly, uh, cosmic, kev and all them people and I was like man, I got cassidy, gill and somebody else on this, I'll be on my grind. I want Seagull. I want to do something with Seagull. They call Seagull, I call Seagull. He asks me when you want to do it. I said today, if you can. He said I'll come do it today. This one he was Seagull, seagull, seagull, not that he not now all these sessions and made them stop for a little bit. We laid the joint and that's how I'll be on my ground. Remix came out. That's how I started meeting people. I was gonna get down on the ground remix. I stood out out of all them people. Every time I would make sure I stood out and that's just how I started and you went.
Speaker 1:You went right where I wanted you to go, because I wanna, I wanna. Why are you? Laughing you went right where I wanted you to go. Why?
Speaker 2:you laughing, you went right where I wanted you to go? My fault, my fault, no, go ahead. You showed me the video last week, chicken man.
Speaker 1:Chicken man, oh my.
Speaker 2:God bro.
Speaker 4:You go crazy, right he's trying, he's trying, he's trying anything.
Speaker 2:Hey Cash Cash. My fault Back to him out With the phone.
Speaker 4:the money to the yeah, I showed up with like a dub on it that wasn't it back then.
Speaker 1:Like that's like the new black the death took years ago, but no chicken, and then then remember the other part. No, when we turned on the freestyle and he was trying to be a chocolate male model.
Speaker 3:When he licked his lips before that.
Speaker 1:Yo go ahead and talk about your remodeling. No, when Beans was fucking it up, he was rapping, you was going to look at the camera like Yo, of course, started cracking the fuck Because I was having a good. The camera like yo.
Speaker 4:Yo the chorus started cracking the fuck Because that Black noise Black. Always was like that, though I was having a good time that day too, because people couldn't call Beans and get Beans out to come do that, yo Hell. No, I had Scorp the.
Speaker 3:Boy Young Hot Seagull. Scorp the Boy Young Hot Beans, that's a classic freestyle John.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a classic Besides Beans, who you think did the best on there? Beans.
Speaker 2:Ha ha, he's a. He smoked that mic and left Like he definitely cooked that job, segal the best rapper that ever come out of Philadelphia man that's a hot stick to me.
Speaker 3:I'm not rapping. That for real. I'm not rapping, that's a fact.
Speaker 4:Damn he killed that shit. No, I don't think that.
Speaker 3:He killed that shit. Know that I don't like this shit, real rap man, we ain't going to act like Segal ain't Segal bro.
Speaker 4:I don't got nobody being better than Segal bro. That's just my opinion. I don't care what nobody say.
Speaker 3:I'm with you.
Speaker 4:It's different.
Speaker 1:You got stories themes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean catalogs. It's an arguable thing if you want to bring stuff like that. I'm just talking about flow, voice delivery, believability, If that's a word Proof. It's definitely a word, Lyrics, stories, pain club clubs freestyles Check all the letters Different, bro.
Speaker 2:I see he got on with 10 raps.
Speaker 4:Different.
Speaker 2:Mike, that's crazy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I just told him that to his face on FaceTime yesterday. He know that my favorite rapper, bro.
Speaker 3:I was with Mac all night last night People scared to do that.
Speaker 4:They don't like to do that in Philly. That's my favorite rapper from Philly bro, he's my favorite rapper in the top five, dead or alive. To me, yeah, me too. I don't know why people act like that. Can't be. That's a crazy thing, Wait what you say. Because people, what you mean.
Speaker 1:No, what you say, go say it again Top five. Dead or alive Top five dead or alive.
Speaker 4:He's one of my favorite rappers. Oh my, but when you?
Speaker 3:in Philly when people in Philly.
Speaker 4:Do that they be like? What about such and such, this person be from Chicago and Atlanta and all these other people? Man, they be acting like. Philly people be acting like because he from Philly man, he top five there, a lot of me, oh shit, it is what it is Damn. They couldn't. Too many people couldn't stand in front of him at that point, at that time. Hov never been on the track with Seagull and did anything he got left.
Speaker 1:Every time Seagull smoked him. All right, yeah, it ain't too many people who don't rap better than Vince.
Speaker 2:Listen, I don't want to fall off track with your story right, because we talked about Superman right, and I meant to put this in the middle of Superman, because I seen you do some Superman shit before and it was crazy. 'm like yo, he really on some hero you was uh, no, no, no, this really happened go ahead, give it to.
Speaker 3:I want to hear this.
Speaker 2:It's not even funny, though it was some real superhero like his daughter was selling lemonade or something right, like she had like a lemonade stand, yeah, yeah, and Black had to go like check a situation with this whole situation with somebody like you know how Karen would come up and try to stop the kids from selling stuff on their property or down the street or something they don't even got nothing to do with. Yeah, Now, um go the story.
Speaker 4:I don't like that story man. He was just a dude, was just getting a little too aggressive, and I don't play by my kids?
Speaker 2:what do you want to tell my kids what they can't do? The dude was he from. On the white guy he was from something in that area, whatever.
Speaker 4:But you know, sometimes it's a misunderstanding of cultural difference where sometimes caucasian people don't understand, so they always be on this permit stuff, and it's that. And a third, and I'm looking at it like I got a 10 year old daughter who out here making nine year old, something like that, eight nine making slime and selling slime that she's making that she learned how to make and you worried about that, when I know it's 11 year olds out here selling crack or it's people 13 years over here shooting and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:So I'll be. I'll be looking at it from my coach like, bro, they doing something positive, don't you dare come over here and tell them to shut it down, or they gotta have a permit and all I had stepped off and I came back and it was packing up so when, when it was packing up, I'm asking him what's going on.
Speaker 4:I thought they sold out. My daughter was all sad about the cry. The man told her she couldn't do it. He was walking up the block. That's how I ended up all the way up there with him by himself. Almost did him dirty.
Speaker 1:But I had to think about it. You know what?
Speaker 4:I'm saying Like don't battle rap. That's why I never battle rap. To get on that, because you're not going to stand in my face and tell me what you're going to do, I'm going to take your little daughter and throw the bitch over the Nah, that's not. I can't take that.
Speaker 1:That's the new age battle rap though. Because back in the day people knew nothing.
Speaker 4:It was just your best raps back then. Yeah, you're not doing that.
Speaker 2:I tell my All right, let's talk about battle rap now, because you connected to everything. Hold on.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on, before we get into that y'all already, because remember he speeded like a Lamborghini. So we already know about Superman.
Speaker 3:We ain't got to speak on that.
Speaker 1:We ain't got to talk about that Because we already, we already. I just want to talk about that because that's the, that's how I feel about what's on my best moments.
Speaker 4:That's your pivotal moment, though that's the hour that's the, that's the black dinero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so I want to talk about that ever and I want to speak on of course I got to speak on you and cuz real quick because that's the black dinero that I like all um dumb ain't I, ain't I and all that like you being featured on flamers and things like that. So um bat cave boys basically you said before it was when it was on show, y'all really, and Gilly was the but I'm talking about the Batcave boys, everybody else, batcave 444, you, knox Garci, gilly it was a lot of people.
Speaker 4:I think the main people was Knox Garci, me, gil Meek. That was like the main people. We was there every day, me and Gil was there every day Because I ain't had nothing else to do. I wasn't ever a corner boy, so I ain't had to stand outside and pitch you know what. I'm saying I didn't have what else I was going to do. I was in the studio all day, you know what I'm saying, so I want to touch on my fault.
Speaker 1:My bad, I was dang what else I was gonna do? Yeah, I was a studio all day. Yeah, you know I'm saying so. I want to touch on my fault, my bed. I want to touch on that moment because I could get into the. So when y'all recorded this song, you know I ain't even gonna do that, I'm. I'm just gonna x this Out of all to me. Y'all's might be different out of all to me, yours might be different out of all, like the mute, the philly musical errors, that was the most iconic one to me.
Speaker 1:It was like to me.
Speaker 4:Well, to me too, because we hit the radio right after that. They had the bad cave on the radio and first they had it on the college campus and then they went to the radio, so yeah it, it was. Everything was helping everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So, as they was growing, we was growing, it was like it was like 06, to like 2012.
Speaker 1:12. 12. Like that, like.
Speaker 4:Probably 05. That was the 05 because Superman was made in the Batcave, and all that too. Oh, like probably, oh five, that was five, because superman was made in the back here and all that too, oh you talking about, because all that was in the other show and when we moved down four, four, four, it didn't even have the same feel as the kids I'm talking about the years. Okay, yeah, probably. Oh five, oh, five to twelve like, like, like, oh five like twelve like all right, so his shots was like what?
Speaker 1:All right, so Headshots was like what I don't remember. Headshots probably was like 03.
Speaker 4:The DVD 04. Back here, it was like 05.
Speaker 1:All right, so that's like kind of battle rap to me Musically, yeah, Musically like 05, 06 to like 2012 was the best Philly ever yeah there was a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah to me, because all the people that we because if I go headshots, that's DVDs, that's cheating, like I'm just talking about musically songs how yeah. So how was that to you like that era, like just Black DeNiro being a prominent name in that era, like when you talk about cuz, when you talk about like how you say you got the what you, what's the what you crowned yourself on. Well, we always was talking about that. We was arguing about what he got, the you got the most features, because ever right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't, yeah, no, I don't think no. Rapper. And fully got more features than me besides me, right, except his bloodhound, right? I?
Speaker 1:don't think so. And then this how use a prominent name? And then what else we was talking about you was the first one that got more Philly elite people on a song.
Speaker 1:you was the first one to do that, so with them. Accolades, bro. You like, when you bring up that Everett is the best that we speaking on, you can't even talk about it without Black DeNiro. So I'm going to just sum all that up, I'm not going to name stuff back to back. How does that feel that when you talk about the best ever in Philadelphia, you cannot not bring up, you Like, how is that feeling? Like fast forward to now.
Speaker 4:I mean. Time go by so fast, man. Some people forget, some people don't know, they don't know the history, they don't know a lot of the people that I put on records for the first time. You know what I'm saying Hidden beefs I squashed behind closed doors, all that type of stuff. I don't really look at it, nothing like that, because when you living in the moment, bro, and you, just you, I just feel like I don't ever do nothing like yeah, I did that. I just remind people sometimes like this I, this is what happened when other people couldn't do it, I made that happen, but at the end of the day, it's nothing that I really.
Speaker 4:I always connected with thorough people throughout my path, man, so I just was doing what I was doing and I think people was respecting that. I was on, I was on both sides of the field, like I really was doing what I was talking, I really was rapping, I really was doing, you know, taking care of my family, getting money, and I was cool. I ain't talking gangsta, I ain't that gangsta, was just me. So I think when people act like that, when be like that, it was easy for me to put oskino and gilly on the record when they're not even talking to each other they don't mess with each other.
Speaker 4:P crack and gilly. You know what I'm saying. Each other, they don't mess with each other. P crack and gilly. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Freeway and cassidy on their first record seagull and ar ab on their first right. It was that middle, that middle stitch that kept. It was all out of love people in the city together yeah, yeah, because I mean the only person that could do something like that, it will be like a street guy. I guess Somebody that's in the mix that know people that's connected.
Speaker 3:I mean the only other person that I met at that time would have been able to do.
Speaker 2:it would be Meek but he wasn't going to do it at that time. Not at that time. He can't have that boy. No, not at that time.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about everything after flamers we did all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after flames. I'm talking about that's the time I'm talking about now. Now look though, since we talked, since you said, you said something about beef. Right, you, you see speed, how you feel when your your back cave brothers, go at it, me, anybody guys greatcia, mike, nox anybody like how you feel because I hate that.
Speaker 4:Man, as men, man, men grow, men have misunderstandings, right. Um, fortunately I never had too much. I just think, man, some people just gotta take accountability for their actions. Some people don't see that they be doing Sucker shit and you know I'm saying, or they just the way that they move, is they just not moving in a right way To line up with somebody else? Me, I just mind my business, I don't really care, but I sit back and we'll sit back and know who's who, who's doing what, who's moving a certain way. It's just certain things you just shouldn't do a conduct yourself as a man. So I think the signals get crossed sometimes when you know everybody trying to figure it out too, meaning you growing, everybody been on that high horse before. Some people might get a little more arrogant at times. Sometimes people don't got no emotion going on and they, they salty about it. It's a lot of different things that, because we all been through that part.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying right, you just gotta know how to deal with it. It's a point when I didn't have no emotion going on, when I ain't had no money, I ain't had stuff going on. I just still show love. I never hated, I never tried to play with nobody, or you know what I'm saying? Just wait until I got back so I was going, so I don't like it, but there's nothing you could do.
Speaker 4:I sit back and don't say nothing. I'll make a phone call here and there and try to put things to bed. But once somebody got their mind made up, I just say all right, let you iron it out right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:I let them iron it out, but I talk every, every beef that you damn near saw with any rapper. I was involved with conversations all the way back with Cassidy and Meek, all the way back. Then we all took a picture at the 40-40 at a Jay-Z party, because they wasn't even speaking to each other in there. You know what I'm saying. So that's even when they was doing that. So you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I was on the three-way with them trying to click each of them in and they wouldn't let me. And when meek and sister, I was on the three-way then trying to click them in, I did click them in.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying conversation was crazy, but that boy meek man guys get good, crazy, like you nothing oh that boy man, um, but when he?
Speaker 4:the best part about it to me is when they get through it. Nobody died, nobody went to jail, and then they had a, a space, rather, is like it used to be, whether it's even better or just not worrying about each other, but they had a space where they can coincide. Yeah, you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I like that that's.
Speaker 4:that's the best thing about it to me, other than that when it's going down I don't really like it, because negative people feed off negative people, negative energy, you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, that's true, so all right. So basically, like because I just wanted you to touch on that era, because, like everybody, oh bro, movies and all that, and then it's like before that it was like you. To me it was was like I told you. You was like the DJ Kyle of the Philly, like you just know how to put all these people on the record and just make a record come about. But it was also the Black Dinero who just was flaming shit. You feel what I'm saying? And luckily that you on a podcast with people who really know stuff like that right not just know what everybody else know.
Speaker 1:We know a little, know a little deeper stuff. You feel what I'm saying? Right so all right after that, what would you say that ever stopped? 2000, 2012.
Speaker 4:I think so 2012?
Speaker 1:yeah, and and why would you say that?
Speaker 4:I think everybody started going different directions. You know what I'm saying. Even Gil started touching on the movies a little bit at that time.
Speaker 1:I was doing showcases.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. I helped introduce OT, the Real man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:People didn't really know OT the Real until he won the Black De Niro hua showcase I mean that's when he started so you basically explained a little bit of what you started doing after that ever yeah, yeah, I started doing showcases and seminars and the films and stuff like that, and I just started moving, I don't know which direction everybody else was going in but that's just people just going their own directions. Okay, okay. So why are you doing? Why are you doing all that? Still maintaining your rap career, though?
Speaker 4:yeah, slightly. Yeah, I was stuck on them films, bro, you gotta remember my second feeling my second film was straight to netflix. Once that happened, I was done with rap really oh, I was really sorry.
Speaker 3:I was done, bro. You asked me, that's exactly how I went, though.
Speaker 4:That's it.
Speaker 1:The rap was over yeah, that's how I went. No, all right. So this all right, so we're gonna go. We're gonna go this way we're gonna go this way.
Speaker 2:Oh we're going to go this way.
Speaker 1:But I hope so. We're going to go this way. That's perfect. When was your first short film?
Speaker 4:Damn. It's more to the story. I think that was Damn, I don't even know 20. 14.
Speaker 1:Then this perfect, then that's perfect. Maybe that's perfect, that's perfect yeah 2014,.
Speaker 4:Somewhere, my first short film shot by High Depth, ok, so so close.
Speaker 2:That's all High Depth man, yeah it had Cousin E in there.
Speaker 4:Spank the Comedian in there, yeah.
Speaker 2:He had a lot of people on there.
Speaker 4:That was the first time I ever went viral by myself Reached 11 million. I mean it's at 11 million views now, but I did a million views in like three weeks on that, so you hear that.
Speaker 1:Listen, I want y'all to know something.
Speaker 4:I want y'all to know something right it's crazy, but yeah, it was dope this man that's sitting amongst us right.
Speaker 1:Been rapping since when? 10? Yeah, mid-90s, right, yeah, mid-90s. Been with Off the Hook. Been in the Sheetz, been that nigga in the Sheetz.
Speaker 4:I got a feature with everybody in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2:Everybody in. Philadelphia, including me. I got a feature with Black.
Speaker 1:Then he done, went to jail five years, came back Three. Damn, don't add more Jones to me oh three my, and went to jail five years, came back Three man. Don't add more Jones to me. Oh, three, my bad, my bad, my bad Black, my bad Black, my bad Black, my bad Black. Three Jones, you know what I'm saying? My bad Black, he did three Jones.
Speaker 1:Came home, did Superman Resume crazy, all his songs in the city been on all that was like a 10, 15 years being, and then he came home and then he, and then he stopped rapping or was still rapping, but I'm gonna let you tell. I'm gonna let you tell how it came about. But just to say this, all after all them years, the first time he went viral was off of something he didn't even spend it all in the years, years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's how it be, ain't that shit crazy?
Speaker 1:and I wanted to just break that down and say you, you never know you're calling yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 3:It's a lesson, that's why I call it and you never quit.
Speaker 4:So it's like you know I was always blessed with ambition. That's why I don't get mad at people. Bro. One thing about me I don't care what nobody say, I always knew to. I was always blessed to be able to let me rephrase that to get to some money. Always, I like how you speak into the.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know what words to put into the air.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let me switch that Always been blessed to be able to get to some money Always.
Speaker 1:Just never know your calling man.
Speaker 4:If you ambitious, bro, you gonna eat. Period, your calling man. If you ambitious, bro, you're gonna eat period.
Speaker 2:You ambitious, you're gonna. I've been rapping a little while now too, and so you pivot right the pod yeah when you pivot.
Speaker 3:You already had this. You already had a script like right now like how, how to, how to, how did it? I had a song and it turned into that okay but, an ambitious person don't know the route.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, yeah, and nine times out of ten they don't, because an ambitious person just gonna eat, because they always ambitious. They're always doing something, so you never know which one is going to catch yeah because you always doing something, I'm always doing something right you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:I made twenty thousand dollars off of no help needed sweatsuits just because I wanted to support stizz from the battle academy. He had just got a new printer and I had a cd coming out called no help needed. So I said, damn, bro, let me make me up three sweatsuits and I'll pay you. He paid it, I put it on, took a picture with it. People started saying they wanted the sweat suits. I started shipping them, drawings out to san diego, san francisco, cali, new york, selling them all over city. I mean like 20,000 off of sweatsuits.
Speaker 3:I didn't see that coming. You know what?
Speaker 4:I'm saying I started doing everything I'm always doing. Even when COVID came, before a whole lot of podcasts came, I was the one of the first people to do use the IG live and people would get mad when you would. They'll say things like what you was the first person. Yeah, I was one of the first part. It was nero ig live tv and I did it every night right during covid when we couldn't come out eight o'clock I had every. I guess gilly, wallow, frank, the grippers freeway, nh. Uh, dominique from insecure, dominique perry that played tasha on Insecure BY Jennings Moni Love.
Speaker 2:Freeway. Wallow you be saying these names. You know what I'm saying. Young Chris, like you walk outside, I could just bump into these people. Cassidy, Freeway.
Speaker 4:Everybody was on. I was doing them every night. I had a new guest every night. You know, I interviewed Moni Love man. Yeah, that's fine, Like come on dog and this was just off your contact list. This was just off the contact list, just calling people You're going crazy. You know what I'm saying and I didn't know that was going to happen.
Speaker 1:So tell us how more to the story came about?
Speaker 4:The song. Doing the song had Liam and them all come up listen to the song. They liked it. It was like a story filled to it. We shot it. It was 28 minutes long. Put it out, shout out to Meek. He tweeted it out, told people to go watch it. Boom. After that it started rocking. Then I wrote Brush.
Speaker 1:So, as more to the story, your first short film came about from a song. It's titled what?
Speaker 2:It's more to the story. So you did do a concept song before, but you never did a concept album, and it inspired you to write the script to Brush Yep Damn. Black Hole is a concept album, y'all. Brush that word you can't quit and just not give us a concept album.
Speaker 4:I'm knee deep in the film now, bro. I'm chasing something, like I'm always whenever I rapped. I didn't look at people on my level or below my level. I always looked at the highest people.
Speaker 2:So do you still rap on your?
Speaker 4:soundtracks Sometimes, if I want the extra check In my last movie what was Done After Dark. I did the outro Just because if I do the outro and I own the beat and my song is registered. That's just an extra check for me.
Speaker 2:Rush was a great breakout movie. Talk about it. I want the youngins to know about this type of stuff. So you record your own song and put it at the end of your movie and you get a check for it.
Speaker 4:I can put it anywhere in my movie, anywhere in the movie that's why when people do song placement in my song, they be like how much you paying? I'm not paying nothing. You should be getting paid because your song should be registered right once you and the producer sign off and you own everything. That's your, your joint registered, that's you. I. I'm not paying you, you're gonna get paid make sense.
Speaker 2:You're gonna get paid off the exposure that I get Every movie.
Speaker 4:I drop it, trend yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying? That's why you got to have an IP number. Yeah, it's just like that.
Speaker 4:You just got to know the business. That's a whole different ballgame of knowing the business. I tell people all the time I'm not out here screaming things that just be screaming it like I was screaming Forest Avenue. That was meaningless. I had nothing behind it. Anybody could have came and took my whole catalog of everything.
Speaker 2:So, look right, you've been shooting movies since 2012? Yep, have any of your Batcave brothers featured in them?
Speaker 4:In Brush I got Cassidy Freeway, spado, chris, neif. No, the Batcave brothers. And no, they ain't listening to me, man, they doing their own thing. Everybody want me to put them in the movie, knowing that's never going to happen with me. I don't care who you is, that's my thing. So what's the process of getting in?
Speaker 2:a, a black and narrow like shout out the feast banger my man feces and he'd be rocking.
Speaker 4:That's my guy. You know what I'm saying. You got to come to a casting call. It's a visionary thing, man. People can't take it personal.
Speaker 4:I got to be able to see that you portrayed this character that I dreamt about, that I see as I'm writing it, that I envision. You have to fit the character, male or female, I don't care how pretty you are, I don't care how gangster you are. You can't tell me it's me, because I know a thousand is me's. You gotta fit the character. If that was the case, if that wasn't the case, then I would be in all my films. Yeah. I'm only in the first four mark. Why wouldn't I be the lead guy? And was done after shout out to which?
Speaker 1:shout out to my boy too. He and one of your drawings who deke what's up. He didn't want to dig in which movie.
Speaker 4:I think he in brush right little deke that I sent to the story. Oh, I ain't seen him since then. That's what he was rolling that's what he's rolling now.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I mean sometimes you'd be rolling that out rolling man rolling now oh wow. I mean sometimes you'll be rolling out the west side like because they move somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shout out d yeah yeah, that's what that's when he started, really he was younger, and that's when I seen him doing this thing, vandy him and lena little as he haircut.
Speaker 1:I ain't trying to say like yeah rolling.
Speaker 4:I don't want to miss him.
Speaker 1:Screw that no, I just don't see nothing.
Speaker 3:But when I, that's when he first started, that's when he started was like yeah, you know what I'm saying, yeah, vine, and all that, yeah deke was in there, so um he played yo not the control.
Speaker 1:The boy played that role so well. Uh, the one with the dreads, with the face, oh, oh, oh, shahraz the boy that played rue with the dreads, with the face, oh, oh, oh. Charvez, the boy that played rue. Oh, bro, bro, see, that's a vision. Let me tell you something that was crazy.
Speaker 4:Let me tell you how visionary work right he had. Like this no beard, no real beard, no mustache. He had his joints in a ponytail and stuff like that he was with his woman. I said let me ask you a woman, you mind if he grows beard out? She's like I don't care. I said don't cut your beard, don't cut it. From here on he had always had the closed joint. So during the time after the casting call and I knew he got the part I made him grow his joint out. When he got on set I was just looking at him one day and I was like come here for a minute, bro, like a beautician. I took the scrunchie or whatever he had off his joint, pulled his locks all the way down, put them all in front of his face and said I want you just like that. That just happened on set. Like that's why you see him, never see his face.
Speaker 1:All his locks is in his face because I just saw that I want to say I ain't gonna be. It is me. I'm gonna really come there and really audition man. I really want to, man, you gotta audition.
Speaker 4:You gonna get so many people get upset with me every time because they don't get the part or one, but it's if I'm seeing 311 people in one casting call and then the next casting call I'm seeing 304 people because we be counting them and then that's almost 800 people, or 700 people in one, two casting calls. Bro, it's only gonna be five people. That's going to get picked, that's going to have major parts. So everybody not going to get the part, like I said, I would play my own. I would be the person in every movie if I wanted to how was it?
Speaker 2:networking in the movie world, what you mean like meeting other directors?
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't really I meet them when I meet them, the directors over there, when you rap. That mean I don't really I meet them when I meet them, the directors over there, when you rap. That's why I don't rap too much. When you rap it's always a lot of negative energy when you come in the room and there's 30 gangsters over here and 30 gangsters over here, the entourage, the entourage. You got to be on point. Everybody don't. If you don't like the song album, but with film they just chitty chatter all the time. It's a bunch of.
Speaker 4:You gotta get used to men talking like girls all the time and they was really mad at me cause I stepped right in the game and went straight to Netflix. So they like who are you, where you come from, you know what I'm saying. So everybody will think I'm arrogant. They'll think I'm this. They'll already perceive me as a person that african-american in this space like every other like it's serious like it's blatant, it's like we're having the
Speaker 4:same problem. Yeah, we're in that world different. You know what I'm saying. It's like everything else you know how about?
Speaker 3:how about being independent? It's the same as well no independence.
Speaker 4:You can go your own way. You gotta one thing about me, man I was also blessed to have a core following, so my I got a nice fan base of core fan supporters that that that just pay all my bills, right, right, right help me live a nice life, because I'm always feeding them with something you know. I'm saying it's just about how you, how to make them, figuring out, how to make them always grow that 38 special talk how to make them grow, and then philly is definitely.
Speaker 4:We talked about that before. It's hard to do that here because, people just don't understand.
Speaker 4:They don't look in the mirror and say what part am I not playing? They always put the blame on everybody else. Everybody sit here and say man, it's Philly, it's Philly, it's Philly, it's Philly. But nine times out of ten, all the people that earned their spots and that's at a certain place, damn near none of them, couldn't send me something and tell me to post it. None of them meek gill, uh, freeway cassidy, uh, quilly ot, nobody couldn't send me nothing, both ots, kwanian, the real none of them send me nothing to ask me not to post it. But a lot of people can't send to other people, not saying them because I brought them here but the and just post it. That costs you nothing. Yeah, they don't want it. They don't help each other eat.
Speaker 4:Everybody act like they don't know the issue or the problem, but they, they do yeah because you gotta, if I, when I come out with a, when I come out with a movie, right, I feel as though a lot of people that I used to expect to post it, they should post it without me saying nothing. Because when Ab was on Vlad, I post it. When Gil come out with Million Dollars Worth of Game, I'm posting it. When BY Jennings is fighting Jesse Hart, I'm posting it. When Cool Boy Steph, I'm posting it. I never even met Cool Boy Steph With Jesse Hart and B jesse hart, I'm posting it with cool boy steph. I'm posting I never even met cool boy steph right with jesse hart and be one of my guys, but if I see him I'm posting it posting it every time I see a philly battle.
Speaker 1:Rap battle you right there you got me.
Speaker 4:I'm a battle rap guy though too, and I'm posting all these stuff. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so it's like it's just little stuff like that, like that can help people eat if you taking them to the water, bro.
Speaker 1:So I don't want to get on. I don't want to get on a trip. That was great questions, though like. Let's keep it on the movies, though, and that was great, no that was a great three or four drawings because we didn't do that and uh, we just straight went into the. I mean, so that was great little drawings because a lot of people don't know a lot about the film industry and you know what I'm saying so, um, so, all right, there's more to the story.
Speaker 1:That was, you still was, you know, black narrow philly, black denier, but then your next john. That's when you went to the black narrow the real director, like that people know yeah and and and are familiar with and, like I'm saying, you got that, we're going to let you tell the Gary Owens story behind it and all that.
Speaker 4:Tell us about Brush man, how that came about, brush came about from quitting the game, telling my life story basically in a sense. You know, when you quit the game, people think you turned bitch. People think you're not the same person. People think you're lying. People think you that's a whole lot. People get mad because you won't supply them.
Speaker 1:All types of stuff.
Speaker 4:You get all type of things from that. So I mixed all that into brush and then I just made it painting instead of rapping, because then I felt like it would had been like get rich or die trying.
Speaker 1:So I just painted and then that's how I went from there okay, so what was, like you know, that thing did phenomenal on netflix. To the point, it was true that was backfire oh, that was backfired my bad, my bad brush was the hood classic joint Brush was the hood joint. Yeah, because that's my favorite, yeah.
Speaker 4:That's a lot of people's favorites still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my favorite Brush. Brush was different and it's funny because you was selling DVDs of Brush Everywhere, driving everywhere, everywhere, and everybody thought the DVD game was over. I drove to South Carolina.
Speaker 4:Darby, every parts of Philly, virginia, New York. I drove to New York and sold Hollow to Don Mav Hoffa and all them. I drove to New York to sell to Murder Mook.
Speaker 1:I drove to sell to Murder Mook.
Speaker 4:Them call me like yo bring me my movie, like I would drive out there to do that.
Speaker 3:Drive to.
Speaker 1:Jersey Drive to New York.
Speaker 4:You a different animal bro Drive everywhere. Bro. I made $50 for an animal drive everywhere, bro I was. I made 50 000 off brush the first month just driving everywhere. I woke up and drove everywhere after I tackled philly. Then I just started going to chester and williamsport, easton, norristown what year was that? 2000, and what 14.
Speaker 4:I'm about to say it had to be like 13, 14 whatever, right before the dvd era faded out because I tried it with backfire and it completely faded out. But this, this was the era when they still had to stand in front of max's and everybody had bootleg you go get, you get your steak and come outside and pick your movie.
Speaker 2:All right so. So so backfire, the game done, changed. But yeah, hustle was different, different.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know nothing about platform, you done made a whole movie you done got direct.
Speaker 2:You done directed the whole movie. You don't got actors to come out and act. Now you ready to put it out.
Speaker 4:It's like I gotta the hustle different now I know that at first I still pressed a lot of them up, sold them, still got, had a lot left over. But like I said, man, I'm gonna reiterate on that when you ambitious and you won't stop, bro that's my company name won't quit ent inc. When you don't quit and you keep going, another door gonna open because you just persistently knocking. You know, know, I'm saying so. That's when I learned about the platforms. That's now I got lawyers and agents and stuff like that. Now you, learning about that, start learning the game, like I gotta learn this game. Then you start hitting platforms and you start hitting on. You know, I was on for us by us. I was on urban flicks, I was on on-demand and all that type stuff strange start doing that, you start streaming.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying yeah, you going crazy you ain't let, you ain't let the uh pivot and you ain't let it stop, you like, even though it was a little bump in the road, you just said no, I'm going, I'm going to continue to keep going and learn this that's the that's, and if that wouldn't have worked out, I probably would have been doing something else right, right, because you're going, you're going to always find it something else and what's the last one?
Speaker 4:what's the no, it's two more, oh uh, backfire, that was the one I was on netflix. Then I did jenny, jenny, then after jenny I did dope girls. Then at the dope girls I did was three more. Yeah, yeah, three more, and then I just finished my last film my last one, my latest film access dang damn you're real, you're knocking them out.
Speaker 3:You're really on some with that shoe and them and not getting them out. Change that?
Speaker 2:battery without saving it no, no, no. We good now, we good now, when he died black went 5 000 to come back down he's out here talking all that love, all right. But look though no real, though All right, but look though no real shit though, make sure y'all share, like, subscribe, comment, repost tag, because if you don't, you a motherfucking hater. Why? Because it's free man. Y'all needs to already know we got Black De Niro sitting down with us.
Speaker 1:F-a finest, you already know what it is man.
Speaker 2:But listen, black, all these movies, you shoot them right, it's a, it's a, it's a whole, it's a thing to it, though, like once you get it, you got it, and once you get your cycle together, it's like riding a bike can't nobody tell you how to do it. No more, you feel me. So what you? Even in the game from the DVD game, wham, all right, this, all I got to do shoot the movie, press it up, get the press right, wham, put it out, and then it change digitally. It's hard because you don't know the information. So now you got to go find out the information. No, not really.
Speaker 4:What happens is you don't worry about where it's gonna go and how it's gonna go there. You worry about the project.
Speaker 2:It's the body of work.
Speaker 4:It's the body of work. That's why you see, my movies don't look like the typical movies. It's about putting love into it and money into it and putting quality time into it. So when you learn the fundamentals of of the films, first take it back to the fundamentals and then you learn different techniques of acting and you learn things that used to be a sponge and pick up games from really from I don't want to say real directors, but I wasn't a real director to me. So, like people that's been in the game longer than me how about that? Or people that you know, you learn project management. You start learning different things and try to. You know how to film, learning stuff just around being anything, and when you make that great body of work, no matter what it is, if it's good, it's gonna find a way somewhere somebody might say, oh, this, you, you did this, and then boom, you know I mean my point is is saying that you you pretty much doing this like it's around the bike.
Speaker 2:He got it. I got a flow right now I got a flow.
Speaker 4:I'm about to really shake him up at the access.
Speaker 2:You actually currently in the mix of putting a movie out now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we just wrapped up Access That'll be at the top of 2025.
Speaker 1:All right and after that I'm saying to say shout out to Goods.
Speaker 4:Shout out to T-Rock. Shout out to Murder Payne. Shout out to Gravy you nasty.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Beyond Beauty.
Speaker 2:Look, I wanted to shout them out, let me get them Hold on.
Speaker 1:Let me get them Hold on.
Speaker 3:Let me get them a trivia.
Speaker 2:Who on who gravy?
Speaker 1:gravy. You know, gravy the biggie bull. Oh, oh god, you got it. I was asking my plan, you know, I know this. I wasn't asking you. Oh, I was asking no, gravy. People don't know, a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 4:He really rapped, though yeah, here, yeah here he was really crazy, but before he was at Mac really rapping though.
Speaker 1:That's how I see it.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's the boy play Biggie. He really ran out. We had Uncle Owen like you Dre had a party downtown that John Cross from the Fed building.
Speaker 3:OK, right.
Speaker 4:John was packed and I smashed that joint and he was looking at me like this who?
Speaker 1:is this Damn? All right, it's fire Shout out Jamal Willard man, I'm just going to shout them out, man Shout out T-Rock. Shout out Riva.
Speaker 4:Shout out, lady Kosh, we not going to shout out these battle rappers and you connected to that we talking about films, man, but now we switching it.
Speaker 2:But now we switching it, we off of the films, because you riding like a bike on that, like you really got that, you got that down pat.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, you got films down pat, bro, like that's where I was going with the whole way of riding a bike. You doing it like you riding a bike now, and I just want people to know that sometimes it take consistency to really be where you want to be. It always take consistency you know what I'm saying to really be where you want to be, it always takes consistency. You know what I'm saying, so just stay at it. Don't worry about the people shouting you out.
Speaker 4:Don't worry about, because eventually it'll happen.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it'll be like that for everybody, though. And it'll be like that when it's too late, when you say you got to do it, when it's, you got to help you.
Speaker 2:He said, he said, he said, he said my haters like they fans, now Fuck them, though.
Speaker 1:That's how it is, because your haters won't turn into your fans after a while.
Speaker 2:You done. I'm all for that. I don't even care if you care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I'm saying, but it's something that you know I said when we talked to Black before.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That I'm going to say now. Now, before we get into these games and before we I mean and I want to say this because we got dudes sitting right here who literally done show love to the whole Philadelphia, like I'm talking about any artist you name he was doing it with the people who was popping, the people who was popping a little bit, and he made people pop, people that's just starting off and he made people oh, he was on Black Song.
Speaker 1:He got songs with the whole uptown on them, stuff that was never going to happen. It's like I said, his bosses and then his leaders were really a leader and there's a lot of both though. No, like no, I'm talking about his own right here, but when it comes to other people, a leader and a whole type of different People got to start putting this type stuff on the map. Man, and, like I said, like is all that gatekeepers this and all that.
Speaker 4:The liberals go through the most hassle, though they got the hardest route. You got to go through it first. You got the hardest route, Like you know. One thing I learned about a lot of rich people. They'll laugh and joke with you, but sometimes they just want to see you do it yourself. I've been around a lot of wealthy, rich people. You know what I'm saying and they just what you got going. Oh, that's what's up. And then, unfortunately, it be like that with your peers too so you just can't listen bro.
Speaker 3:I just want to commend you for never stopping, bro. Me too. You always gave us your all in the music and then you pivot to the movies, and you've been excellent in that. And just being like you said a leader in this shit and Philadelphia always being one of those people that give a person a shot that ain't got. They don't have a name, the people with the biggest name and the person in between, bro, so it's just. That's a hard watch all the movies.
Speaker 4:That's a hard range all the movies typing black dinero on to be man watch them damn brush backfire.
Speaker 3:Jenny dope girls. What's going on?
Speaker 4:at the dark just go watch them all and go on iTunes and watch.
Speaker 1:Download that Philly work I was getting to the easy will be tossed into these games, man. Okay, let's get into these games let's go.
Speaker 4:I'm answering these real quick cuz I'm alright, let's go alright, really the most we played on this time really the most we play these games.
Speaker 3:I'm here fast-track. You ain't not too crazy. You pick one or the other, and because we in philly, I gotta start with this state property at major figures state property coogee rap. Uh, big daddy kane big daddy king g unit a dip set dip set okay, um monica. Okay, monica Keisha Cole.
Speaker 2:Mess this up.
Speaker 4:You might not get no for a while. I'm going to say Keisha.
Speaker 3:Teddy Pendergrass or Marvin Gaye, teddy, hmm, okay. Or Marvin Gaye, teddy, okay. Mobb Deep or CNA.
Speaker 2:Mobb Deep let me go, white boy go ahead you ready? Steen or PD Crack, p Crack.
Speaker 4:Cassidy or Goods, which way Battle.
Speaker 2:Rat Battle Rat.
Speaker 4:Battle Rat.
Speaker 2:Don't stop me while I'm in this booth.
Speaker 4:I ain't answering that, John.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I did it.
Speaker 3:Because, he trying to make it seem like it's Cassidy and Goods. They both my guys. I ain't answering that. So you don't think Goods got Cassidy right now in the battle royale world.
Speaker 1:We didn't say right now. We didn't say right now. You always trying to throw mustard on it.
Speaker 3:No, we ain't say right now. So if Cassidy and Goods was the, did they? They battle.
Speaker 1:We ain't say right now though.
Speaker 4:Right now. Right now.
Speaker 1:They battle. It's easy right now. Right now.
Speaker 3:I would say Goods. Back then I would say Cass.
Speaker 1:Like Cass, they be making it too easy. No, when?
Speaker 3:they battled, though who won?
Speaker 1:Of course Goods won.
Speaker 3:It was Cass, come on, I just wanted to know.
Speaker 1:Goods an animal right now. Good's the animal, he an animal right now. A lot of people ain't be him right now, but he just not the he the underdog a lot of times because he be going.
Speaker 3:He the underdog top tier Because he only do one battle a year. He only do one battle a year. He battle when he want to, though.
Speaker 4:That's the difference.
Speaker 1:That battle a year exactly he battle when he wants to, though that's the difference.
Speaker 4:That's why I like you better when he wants to what's the next one man, oh, you just said who what's the?
Speaker 1:next joint bro it's just like core or bugs. No, I said good goods or bugs what buzzes take down records.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they both that's let talk talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah good, let's go good, say good, or buzzy slick talks or something good, don't just say that like that. What are we doing? All right, hold on, all right, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me get it.
Speaker 2:I gotta go back to philly.
Speaker 1:Hold on beans or gilly beans all right, joey, joey, joey.
Speaker 3:Jahadanna reed dallas joey.
Speaker 2:Damn, you answer quick, gilly, or me don't look at me, don't look me me.
Speaker 1:All right. All right, I'm gonna do the one from last time murder mill fu benga oh, that's the hard job.
Speaker 4:I'm gonna say murder mill because a lot of food didn't let a lot out. You know what I'm saying, like he, he is different, but food kind of lacked in delivery a little bit okay, you know what? I'm saying he just is powerful with the I can or m.
Speaker 3:I can.
Speaker 1:I can. All right, let's do one.
Speaker 3:I love you, though.
Speaker 1:One guy, one gotta go, let's do one guy Go you ready, one guy, get out of here. You know, you know the deal Black you family and each re meet Hattie.
Speaker 4:Say that again.
Speaker 1:And they meet re re meet or had one Got it out of here and each OK, reed, meek or Hattie, one got to get out of here. Nh, okay, okay, okay, NH, nh, let's go, dr Dre. Now, man, everything got to go, Everything I know, I know. All right, dr Dre, diddy, jay-z, dr Dre, diddy, jay-z, dr Dre, diddy and Birdman.
Speaker 4:I don't like that one. I don't like getting rid of Jay-Z only because of state property.
Speaker 3:That's the only reason.
Speaker 4:If they wasn't there, then they can go.
Speaker 1:That's what I said, but it's hard, though that's the only thing I can say. That's what I said, but it's hard, though, that's the only thing I can say. He did it, but Drake bring.
Speaker 4:I mean what you call it Bring too many people. Dr Dre brought too many people. I'm going to say Dr Dre, dr Dre.
Speaker 3:Because, I need.
Speaker 4:It got to be a 50 cent.
Speaker 3:Martin Jamie Foxx Fresh.
Speaker 4:Prince.
Speaker 3:Wayne's Brothers.
Speaker 4:Wayne's Brothers. Wayne's Brothers? Not all of them, man, not all of them. Sean and the Young 2 or.
Speaker 3:The Wayne Brothers show.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 3:Wayne.
Speaker 4:Brothers.
Speaker 1:All right, bet All right, all right. The one who played the show.
Speaker 4:Oh you talking about the show the Wayne Brothers? Oh, I thought you were talking about the people I'm like. No, not King or Damon, all I thought you were talking about people.
Speaker 1:I'm like no, not Kim and Damon, let's get it Shout out to those two. But you know what I'm saying? Garci Mike Knox, he's going to laugh twice. Garci Mike Knox, meet Gilly. Come on, man. Batcave Boys, batcave Boys Out of pocket man, what can?
Speaker 3:I do Batcave boys, y'all, y'all Batcave boys Out of pocket, man, what can I go? Yeah?
Speaker 4:Batcave boys Knox got to go. Because Knox got to go? Because Knox will tell you like I just know how to make money off rap.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I know how to hustle.
Speaker 4:I ain't the best rapper, but I get it done. Okay, yo man, I'm going to say Knox, because he already you know what I'm saying, and then Garcia right behind him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Shout out.
Speaker 2:Garcia.
Speaker 1:Yo we got black in the building man. That's my guy, like Garcia, he knows that.
Speaker 2:I'm really say no, go ahead.
Speaker 3:I'm really.
Speaker 1:I'm white boy, you, when I get to the vine, make sure y'all share.
Speaker 2:Make sure y'all share, Like, subscribe comment. Cause if you don't you a motherfucking hater Cause.
Speaker 3:It's free we out.
