Kerry, an Early Childhood Educator and Development Through Play Therapist at My Therapy House talks about what to look out for when your child starts or returns to school during the new school year. Kerry has worked in classrooms and shares strategies to support parents, teachers and children start the school year on a positive note.
https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/kerry-herbert/
danabaltutis.com, mytherapyhouse.com.au, https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/your-childs-therapy-journey/ https://www.danabaltutis.com/services
Kerry, an Early Childhood Educator and Development Through Play Therapist at My Therapy House talks about what to look out for when your child starts or returns to school during the new school year. Kerry has worked in classrooms and shares strategies to support parents, teachers and children start the school year on a positive note.
https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/kerry-herbert/
danabaltutis.com, mytherapyhouse.com.au, https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/your-childs-therapy-journey/ https://www.danabaltutis.com/services
Today I'm speaking to our amazing play guru, teacher, Kerry Herbert. Welcome to our podcast, Kerry, the Empowered Parent Podcast with Dana Baltutis - me. So, Kerry, I'm so glad you're here today because, as we all know, children are going back to school next week. I'm sure parents are getting ready for children to go back to school. Some children are starting kindergarten, some children are starting school. So I would first of all like you to introduce yourself to the listeners.
Kerry Herbert:Thank you, Dana, for inviting me. Yes, I'm Kerry Herbert. I graduated in early years education in 83, 84, started teaching and teaching mostly in many country locations the Riverland, Moonta, Kadina, the Copper Triangle, went to teach in England for a year and then moved back to Adelaide. So teaching in the Kindies, around Adelaide, different suburbs and I yeah, then I, after teaching for so many years, I thought I'd like to look at other areas. I started looking at a different areas of working with children still, and I fortunately came across My Therapy House and then I've joined the team at My Therapy House and working with children with a variety of needs.
Dana Baltutis:Yes, and the children love you, and the parents love you, and they all can't wait for a Kerry session. So, Kerry, I know that you work not only with children, but also with parents. What is your experience in working with the parents?
Kerry Herbert:For me, firstly, as it is developing, it's really important to develop a trusting relationship with the child and the parents, and often kindy or childcare is the first time that parents may be separating from their child, so they're feeling a variety of feelings along with their child, including being worried, anxious, fearful, unsure, nervous, along with being very excited about the new experiences and growth of their child. If it's not their first time, they may have a variety of past experiences themselves, and also that each child is different, so even if they've had siblings starting, each child may react differently.
Dana Baltutis:So starting school, yes, so that's a really good point, isn't it? I never thought about that. So parents might have had their own experiences of their own schools and kindies and what meaning for school was for them, and that could be actually affecting the way that they are seeing their child start school. Did you used to see that?
Kerry Herbert:Quite a lot, very much so. So just I think, being very aware of that, and allowing for that and not assuming that they're feeling happy, comfortable and ready and thinking it's a good experience. It may be, but it also may be well. I remember when I started school and I cried all day, or it was a very negative experience for them, and so they may still be carrying that.
Dana Baltutis:And then how would that play out for a child? Say, if someone didn't have a good experience at school, how do you think that parent would react when the child's starting school?
Kerry Herbert:So they may still pass on those sorts of negative feelings and the child may be hearing the parents say, oh, you're starting school, and in conversation they might hear parents say, oh, it was terrible when I started school.
Dana Baltutis:Oh yes.
Kerry Herbert:And they'll be picking up on that and that may cause them even more anxiety. Or I'm not going to like it at school, mum didn't like it at school, or dad didn't like it at school. Yes, because it could be just bypassing.
Dana Baltutis:Couldn't it be like talking on the phone to friends or to your mum or your dad, like the child's grandma or grandpa? So children are hearing it and, I guess, feeling the vibe, you know, because they're probably picking up on the parents' anxiety and the parents' state of being around that.
Dana Baltutis:And I think this week we've had quite a few parents that have said their children were behaving differently and I've asked them did the child know that they're going to school next week? Oh yes, we went uniform shopping and this and that. So is that common, Kerry, that children start to anticipate that they're going to go back to school next week?
Kerry Herbert:Yes, definitely they're picking up on that and they're getting. They might be feeling anxious, like it might be starting brand new or into a new classroom, new teacher, excuse me, new people around them.
Dana Baltutis:So, even though they might have already been at the same school, it's still feeling anxious about all the new things that might be happening and I guess, separating right, separating from family, separating from their siblings especially if they've been on holidays altogether as a family and the routine's going to be changing they'll be waking up early.
Kerry Herbert:Yes, and it takes time to get back into that routine or into a new routine if it's new for them. Yeah, fascinating, yeah, and yeah, just thinking also along with that is if they've already had siblings starting school that it could be quite different. So parents need to be aware that, certainly for me, I have two boys and one - I took him to school and he got to the classroom and it's just like see you, mom, bye.
Dana Baltutis:And off he went.
Kerry Herbert:No, it was sort of standing there, oh, okay, bye. Whereas number two son very different and lots of tears and crying and very hard, had to leave him with the teacher and I pretty much ran to the car or ran home crying myself. So, very opposite in the way they had their first day, so each child in the family can be really quite different on their first day starting in kindy childcare preschool or school?
Dana Baltutis:Yes, yes. And if the child is crying, what should the parents do?
Kerry Herbert:Be reassuring and understanding, and so not run away to your car. Well that was when the teacher said yep, go now.
Dana Baltutis:Yeah, okay, yes, yes.
Kerry Herbert:So that will vary on different teachers how that's going to be handled. But yeah, if they can see they're upset. I was certainly reassuring him. I'll be picking you up at you're going to, but that may vary in different classrooms or kindies, as to how long the parent can stay. Hopefully the transition has helped with the whole. First, day. But yeah, if they're crying, still understanding that and I can see you're sad and you're feeling worried and naming how they're feeling and hopefully they can settle and as a teacher I would.
Kerry Herbert:If they're really upset, I would certainly reassure the parent that we won't leave them upset. Or if you're ready to go, I'll take the child with me and then I do a sort of a comfort call later and phone and say, yep, they're busy doing this or they've done this or that sort of thing. Just to help reassure Yep. They have settled in and we wouldn't leave them.
Dana Baltutis:So that's really great that teachers can do comfort calls if that's part of their culture. Yeah, yeah, right.
Kerry Herbert:Probably up to the teacher.
Dana Baltutis:I'm not sure I can't speak for all teachers, but certainly I would do that myself, especially for sensitive children who are having difficulty.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, and it's just comforting for the parent to hear oh right, they've settled Because if they've gone home or somewhere, and then they're just sitting there thinking oh no, I'll let them.
Dana Baltutis:And then the anxiety can just grow and grow and by the child comes out of school that day or kindy, and how was it. And then the child is reading oh my gosh, was it supposed to be bad? Because you're panicking, is that right? So you're calming the parent, so they will calm the child in the afternoon for the next day, and I've heard parents setting up really special treats or something like that in the afternoon, like nice sandwich or some snack that could be like oh well, you've had a really great day. So everything is associated as a really up and up, rather than doing the 20 questions. Yeah, certainly.
Kerry Herbert:I was thinking of that. It's not a good thing if you can sort of not say what have you done today to our questions I used to. But if you can be creative and ready and interested and listening but instead of avoid what did you do today? But if you can come up with I used to with my boys, say, did someone smile today? Or did you know any of the boys' names or girls' names? Did the teacher jump up and down today? Did somebody laugh? Or who was the funniest?
Kerry Herbert:Just creative, silly questions, and you often find that a conversation will go from that and it's just more fun and children will start, Because it's a very big question to just say what did you do today? That's a lot to think about Just little things, and you're then having a conversation with the children and being interested, being there with them, finding out little bits more. Did someone drop something today? I would just come up with a variety of strange and funny questions and they would love it and laugh at it and think and maybe make up their own stories around it.
Dana Baltutis:And then the whole idea of school or kindie would be fun rather than a chore and something scary. And I know that for some children even that is difficult to answer those questions. And I've seen teachers just make little pages with little pictures of, let's say, sandpit or ball play or circle time, and then they just put a circle around it with the child at the end of the day. So they say, oh, today you did circle time, you did sandpit, you did I don't know drawing, and then that paper would go home with the child and then the parent would be able to say, oh, I can see that you did circle time and drawing. And so then it sort of puts that bridge between the school and the parent. Yeah, great, great. So, Kerry, what do you see? Other skills that an empowered parent needs to have when looking for an educational setting for their child, like, what do you think they need to be looking for? What could they be asking?
Kerry Herbert:Often they can be like an advocate for their child and so they should be confident to share their understanding and knowledge of their child and their feelings and the child's feelings and behaviours and any sensory needs and hopefully they're moving into the educational setting to work together as a team with the support staff and staff and all involved at the Education Centre and Hi setting up communication with the parents and the therapist If there's any therapist too, then when they're there they can, when they're first visiting, because that's the first thing I would say is go visit a centre or school, Maybe visit a few in the area and then get a few and a vibe and ask some questions and then decide which one you think is
Dana Baltutis:going to fit you your family and your child, Because not everyone fits right in every place, because there will be people that are recommending oh, this is a great place, but if you go to it you might feel I just didn't vibe or establish good rapport with that teacher or principal and that's fine. It's just the way it is. It's just not the same DNA, if you like.
Kerry Herbert:So I'd certainly say to parents go and have a visit, get a few and start asking questions and different questions. Some of these actually we're formulating a list which is available on my therapy house website will be with the sorts of questions that you could ask when having that initial visit and feeling empowered that it's good to ask questions that's the right thing to do and they might like to ask about routines, asking about transition.
Dana Baltutis:What does that mean?
Kerry Herbert:So that should be happening well before it's time to start school or kidney, and the transition is moving from, say, kidney into school. So what sort of program that would have for transition? Whether they're visiting individually, visiting as a group, whether they're visiting for a whole term before they start school or whether they've got four visits, each sort of centre and school will have their own transition programs whether there can be a creative transition, especially more so with children with special needs, whether they can just do half days to begin with or have a day off each week just being really creative with transitions.
Dana Baltutis:Because I know there are some children that have established like therapy routines or routines when they were in kidney, so like say, wednesdays or therapy days or whatever, and then they go to school and the school says no, you can't be going out on those days. Do you think it's important for children to maintain some of the routines they've already had and established relationships?
Kerry Herbert:Definitely, and that would definitely be on their question list when visiting the school or kindy. My child has therapy. How can this work with their time at school? This is really important. They need to continue their therapy. So, yeah, how can we work that into their school programs?
Dana Baltutis:If parents are saying, oh, but school is more important than therapy, what would you be saying to that? Because you're on both sides of the fence, aren't you? You've been in the kidney and you've been in the therapy session. What would you?
Kerry Herbert:say It'd certainly be, because there'd be talk about school or kidney starting, including the therapist and where they'd be looking, reviewing and where they're at, and if certainly they should be continuing. It's decided that therapy is still part of what they should be doing. And also what we hope in therapy is that the skills and things we're developing a lot of that is, to develop them in the therapy sessions to them transfer to other learning areas, including school kidney child care.
Kerry Herbert:So if you break off one of that, break off the therapy, that part of the development is not going to happen. So it's really important to keep that happening.
Dana Baltutis:And also maybe from a point of view that it is a routine and if the child enjoys coming and they're learning and they feel understood, it's almost quite therapeutic for the child to have some of that emotional release when they come to therapy. If they've been in a place where three or four days they haven't felt understood, then they can come to therapy and feel like, oh, someone understands me and the parents can have a chat about it with the therapist and then the therapist can contact the school. So it's more about that. I guess it's more that whole transition when they start school that it's not jumping fully five days a week, nine to three. You've got to do it, is that right?
Kerry Herbert:Yes, and certainly transition time, when there are so many new things already and changes. It's good to keep therapy going because it is that familiar already trusting relationship with the therapist and if there's things happening at the school or kidney then parents can be talking about it and then we can. Therapists can then incorporate that into therapy sessions to work on more.
Dana Baltutis:And do you think learning just happens at school? Or kidney Because I know some parents think, oh no, they've got to go to school or kidney, because that's where they learn, they need that, they need to learn. So what do you think of that? As a teacher, definitely not.
Kerry Herbert:Learning is everywhere all the time happening. Yeah, so it's not only in the school area. So, no, definitely. They're learning in all of the places that they're moving around. They're learning at Grandma's house, they're learning at the playground, they're learning at home and as well as kidney and school.
Dana Baltutis:Yes, yes, Okay, that's great. It's just a great conversation. So are there any suggestions? Do you think for parents how they could support themselves when their children start kidney or school? Because I know that's a milestone not only for the child but also for the parent, Right? So what did you do, Carrie, when your children started school or kidney? How did you support yourself?
Kerry Herbert:Well, my first day with one was running away trying to figure out how I was going.
Dana Baltutis:What you're going to do next.
Kerry Herbert:Oh, okay, but yeah, certainly with parents I would help. Like that reassuring, comfy phone call I find is important, maybe they networking with other parents in the class, getting to know other parents, as children will be making friends and getting to know new people in the class or in the kindy.
Kerry Herbert:They might have younger siblings so they might be going somewhere or going home and then it's time to spend with them. So this is new available time for any siblings and they can start planning perhaps special things that will be happening for them like kindergarten or swimming or playgroup, or going to the park or playground or activities at home.
Dana Baltutis:So the thing you can hear now is just the rain. So we're just speaking and loving the rain. We just keep going. Continue with this.
Kerry Herbert:They might like to be involved in the education setting kindy or school and this will vary for each parent so they can choose. But they might like to be on committees or fundraising or volunteers Check sometimes are required with that. So the setting will have up to date information for any volunteering with reading or canteen or library excursions so they might like to be involved, and that's a very positive thing for the children if they're seeing their parent is involved in attending events and assemblies and sharing perhaps sharing their interests.
Dana Baltutis:I remember when my mum used to work in the canteen back in the day and I would beg my mum to work in the canteen. She didn't like to do it, but she definitely did it twice a term because she knew that my sister and I were like mum's working in the canteen. Today you're very proud.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, definitely so it really makes a difference if parents are as involved as they are comfortably, and there's a variety of different things to choose from to be involved in kindy or school? Yes, yes, the parent then may have some time to do something that they've been wanting to do, like. It might be a course or study or leisure, like yoga, or something or whatever it is their interest is, so it's a bit of their time they've gained back in their interest.
Kerry Herbert:They might go back to work, or they might just want to read a book or something. So it's just nice to have a bit of their time.
Dana Baltutis:And I think also a lot of parents I know just go back to work and then they go back to work for a lot of days because it's almost like they need to catch up financially and get their finances in order again. And I see, then the parent starts to burn out because they've been caring for the child for so long. Then they go back to work with all its demands, but there's no space for the parent to just rest, because it is a big thing being a parent.
Kerry Herbert:Definitely, and I think that's good, to just allow yourself to have that time.
Dana Baltutis:Yes.
Kerry Herbert:Like well, I'm just going to go home, put the kettle on and read for a while or do something in the garden or there's that cupboard I really wanted to clean. Yes, just something that yes.
Dana Baltutis:Because a healthy parent is a healthy child and by looking after yourself you really empower yourself and you also give your child the modelling that it's good to look after yourself, because otherwise, if we're going round and round and round and round like just on a carousel, then children start going round and round on a carousel and then they get burned out and they have meltdowns and then there's a lot of miscommunication in the family and family structures start to break down and it just keeps going on and on. So I do think that's really important to take time out, and it's okay, and if parents feel like they can't, then maybe they need to work on that part themselves with a professional, you know. I think that's important as well.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, I think it's just telling yourself as a parent yep, it's okay, I'm going to take the dog for a walk and just have some time.
Dana Baltutis:Yes, yes that's very important. And, Kerry, just one last thing. I want to take the perspective of teachers now. What would you give some suggestions to teachers when they've got a new child in the classroom, especially children with special needs? How would they prepare for that? And you know, in your experience, were there any transitions that worked well? Were there any transitions that didn't work well?
Kerry Herbert:Yep, I would feel prepared well. First preparation would be like gathering as much information and background earlier from therapists, doctors if there's any diagnosis and especially the parents, just so I have all the information and hopefully you've already met at earlier transitions, so it's really a welcome back and supporting the parents then to leave or stay as needed. That can vary and not feeling like you have to rush that as much as possible?
Dana Baltutis:And what about taking on the story of the child, because sometimes children come into your classroom with a whole encyclopedia of narrative behind them. Oh, just wait his behaviors and just wait till he does this and he does that. Did you look at the child with fresh eyes or did you have all these preconceived ideas in your mind?
Kerry Herbert:Definitely try not to have preconceived, because it's nice to have all that awareness, but then I'd almost think we'll see how they go here in this situation, because it's a different place, there's different people, there's different things happening, it feels different smells different.
Dana Baltutis:And I think if you, I would imagine, if you go in with preconceived ideas, then you are portraying that Vibe to the child and then the child can feel it, because children can feel everything, Definitely yeah and then they're gonna react to you in the way that you're actually Whatever you're portraying to them.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah. So it's really definitely important to not have a set idea on a child.
Dana Baltutis:I would Very much say don't do that, Just be open and things will unfold on the best day and you'll just yeah, and you'll be a different teacher, a different person, to someone else they might have interacted with, so your vibe might be better for that child, so they might have totally different behaviors towards you.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, yeah, so I would just be starting to develop that trusting relationship as New, fresh relationship with parent and child and how long do you think it takes to for a child to develop the trusting relationship? That can vary and it's always developing in different areas, so it can be very fun Therapy wise. You might feel that by the end of a session, so sort of like the end of your the hour yeah sort of things. You you're already feeling like, yep, I think we're starting to develop a relationship.
Dana Baltutis:But that's where you're one-on-one, right. Yeah, but in a classroom it's different because you've got how many kids? Yeah, so it does take. Yeah, you can have 20 sort of in a young one.
Kerry Herbert:So you, that will take longer and it will vary for each child. So it's high I I couldn't really just say yep if I three months yeah, there's some will still be developing even with transition. I was involved in a project with education department at one stage about transition because it is such an important thing and they were looking at research like it can take 18 months for a child to actually transition From where they were looking at, from kidney to school.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, so that is really good to keep in the mind that you just need lots of time. Yes, for a full transition, it takes time to be learning new routines and Developing relationships with new people.
Dana Baltutis:Yeah, new situations so 18 months and yeah. So that's good to know, because then people don't have to go into panic after two or three months. And you know it, it does take time definitely.
Kerry Herbert:One of the things when thinking what worked what I used to do at the last preschool I was that we would have what we called a Orientation tour of the school where our kidney was actually on site with the school, which was worked really well, but we would still treat it as in a big transition to go from kidney into the school, still changing routines and People they would see every day. So we would have a tour and I'd take the camera and the group of children that were going together and then I'd take a photo of the children in the sick room, the library, the computer room, the toilets very important toilets, oh wow.
Kerry Herbert:The playground, front office, just all of those areas in the school, yeah, and of that group together. That was starting together and parents were invited to join us on that tour and Then we made a little booklet and so that booklet would go home with them For the holidays so then they could be reading that, looking at that, looking at photos, and then parents could say, oh, remember the toilets there, or if you feel sick you'll go here. So they could do a lot of talking.
Dana Baltutis:The booklets would look quite shabby by the end, because they do lots of talking, and so there was familiarizing themselves with the different areas of the school before they started and if the parents or if the teachers haven't done that yet, it's is it Too late to do it once they start a book, not like me?
Kerry Herbert:It would still be useful because, like I said, it takes 18 months, so there's a transition in. So, even though, yeah, you can't sort of think oh well, we had transition visits the end of last year, we've had the big holiday break. Yeah, they'll be fine, yeah because they're not just going to walk in and go. Yep, I'm on set to go, yeah, yeah, it's still very much.
Dana Baltutis:So if if parents haven't got a booklet like that yet for next week, they could definitely ask the teachers next week hey, could we make a transition booklet, you know? And even if the teacher is poor on time, they could send the photos to the parents and then the parents and you know, saying what they are, because parents aren't always sure what they are Then the parents could make the booklets themselves.
Kerry Herbert:There's a yeah, variety things could still be. No, and I used to say to parents in a holi when holidays come out for transition was If you can visit the school during the holidays, you might have a picnic at the playground, because most schools you can go on the grounds. Check that first. I don't want to send everyone on the. Yeah, but we used to be out. Yeah, you can go have a play on the playground, take a ball and play on the over. So it's not a big scary new place.
Dana Baltutis:Yes.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, and also with that I used to say, be prepared earlier with the bag and the lunch and the Uniform, like you said, uniform shopping and things and pack the lunch and do practice runs so that the containers are all containers that can be open and shut. Ah, okay, without any worry and everything's got names on it, so they recognize that it's not all first day and opening everything the first time, but they can go off a picnic stream the holidays.
Dana Baltutis:So buying a container that might be difficult to close but has got something like I don't know Mickey Mouse on it because the child likes Mickey Mouse is not necessarily the right container. So you might want to buy what a container that is easy to open and close and then maybe just put a sticker of Mickey Mouse on it. Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can still.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, thank them individual and put their names on it. Yeah yeah, because those little things just make it easier. They're just little things that can make the day go easier. Yeah, you're struggling with your drink bottle or struggling with, yeah, and those sort of routines when arriving. So parents would be asking or finding out about those routines so they can initially help the child and then they become more independent in doing those sort of where do I hang my bag? Where do I put my lunch now, where do I put my drink bottle?
Dana Baltutis:So parents doing that with them, helping them, and then they can take that on and repetition, and doing it the same way and saying the same thing, it becomes like almost like a rhythm, doesn't it Like a song? Yeah, and you could, the parents could make up a song to sing with the child.
Kerry Herbert:Yeah, that's a good idea, yep, and the same routine, like different kidneys, will do different ways of marking attendance, so it might be finding their photo and putting it somewhere or ticking their name off. Or I've seen one kidney that had stones with their names on it. They put the stones from one basket to another so that those sort of routines, if they've practiced them together, or at least parents have asked about them and know about them, they can help the children and the same with pickup routines. Where will parents be? Will they be inside, outside, at the gate, at a special place that they've decided?
Kerry Herbert:yep, I'll pick you up from here, Just organizing those sorts of routines, practicing them as much as they can so that they don't necessarily have to be first time on the first day.
Dana Baltutis:That sounds great, Kerry. You are just a trove of information. I think parents would have lots of questions, so I'd love to get you back on and maybe parents could actually write in the questions to us and then we could address them specifically. That would be really good. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for being on today and I think this week everyone's getting ready to return to school and go to Kindi next week, so we wish everyone well and thank you for being on the show, carrie, and we look forward to speaking again soon, thank you. Thank you very much, donna, okay bye, bye.