Episode 20: How to Navigate Beyond 'Shoulds' in Your Retirement with Marilyn Hintsa

In this episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen delve into the evolving concept of retirement with guest Marilyn Hintsa. Marilyn shares her personal and professional journey, highlighting her pivot from a corporate career to becoming a retirement coach. She discusses the pressures and expectations surrounding retirement, emphasizing the importance of personal choice and rejecting societal 'shoulds.' Marilyn also introduces her initiative, Next Chapter Dialogues, which offers group sessions encouraging retirees to explore life after work. Through meaningful conversations and community support, Marilyn helps clients find joy and purpose in their post-career lives. The episode underscores the value of direct conversation, shared experiences, and stepping out of one’s comfort zone.

00:00 Introduction: Rethinking Retirement

00:51 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show

01:35 Meet Marilyn Hintsa: A New Path in Retirement

02:43 Marilyn's Journey into Coaching

05:17 Challenges and Insights in Retirement Coaching

06:24 The Importance of Group Dynamics

07:15 Mindset Shifts and Overcoming Fear

14:05 Purpose in Retirement

21:48 Creating Safe Spaces for Vulnerability

28:34 Final Thoughts and Farewell

About Marilyn Hintsa

Marilyn has been on her own retirement journey since late 2019 when she was unexpected “early retired” from a corporate career. Not ready to go out to pasture, she became certified as a leadership coach, decided to use her new skills to help her contemporaries lead themselves into their post-career lives, and set up her practice, ULeadU Post Career Pathing, in 2021.  Since then, her practice has evolved and recently launched Next Chapter Dialogues, a weekly, Zoom-based, guided discussion group that people join on a monthly subscription basis. Next Chapter Dialogues is a powerful opportunity for people anywhere on a retirement journey to travel together in community and, with Marilyn’s guidance, explore topics related to life after work, aging and longevity.

Website: https://www.uleadu.ca/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hintsa/

Real Retirement Video Podcast: Real Retirement - YouTube

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: Rethinking Retirement
• 0:00 Meet Marilyn Hintsa: A New Path in Retirement
• 0:00 Creating Safe Spaces for Vulnerability
• 0:51 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show
• 1:35 Meet Marilyn Hintsa: A New Path in Retirement
• 2:43 Marilyn's Journey into Coaching
• 5:17 Challenges and Insights in Retirement Coaching
• 6:24 The Importance of Group Dynamics
• 7:15 Mindset Shifts and Overcoming Fear
• 14:05 Purpose in Retirement
• 21:48 Creating Safe Spaces for Vulnerability
• 28:34 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Transcript

Marilyn Hintsa: 0:00

Since I've been on this journey myself, my ideas about retirement have changed a lot. And I, at this stage, am, you know, really letting go of all of the shoulds about retirement. And there are a lot of them, you know, there's a lot of pressure to have an ambitious retirement. There's a lot of pressure to, do great things in this next chapter. There's a lot of pressure to remain as young as you possibly can for as long as you possibly can. And that may be right for some people that may be what brings them satisfaction and a sense of purpose. But if you are not that person, if you want a much quieter life because you had a stressful job, your whole, career, then that's okay. And in fact, whatever you choose is okay. don't fall victim to the shoulds.

Yasmin Nguyen: 0:51

Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show. My name is Yasmin. Here with my co-host Kathleen. Whether you're retired or thinking about retirement, we delve into the multifaceted world of retirement beyond the finances. This isn't your typical retirement discussion. It's a vibrant journey into what retirement truly means in today's world. We bring you real stories from real retirees and experts discussing real challenges, surprises, joys, heartaches, and the myriad of emotions that come with retirement. From addressing family dynamics to mental and physical health, to finding purpose, we tackle the issues that truly matter to retirees and those thinking about retirement. Today. We are thrilled to welcome someone who has turned an unexpected twist into an inspiring new path. Meet Marilyn Hintsa, a dynamic voice in the world of modern retirement. When Marilyn was early retired from her corporate career in late 2019, she didn't slow down. She shifted gears instead of heading for the hammock, she got certified as a leadership coach and launch you lead You post-career pathing to help others lead themselves into vibrant purpose-filled post-career lives. Now she's taking things even further with Next Chapter Dialogues. A fresh, powerful initiative that brings people together weekly on Zoom to explore life after work, aging and longevity through meaningful guided conversations. If If you've ever wondered what's really possible in your next chapter, Marilyn is here to show you the way with wisdom, warmth, and just the right amount of spark. welcome Marilyn. It's so great to have you on the show.

Marilyn Hintsa: 2:40

Thank you. It's, lovely to be here and I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Yasmin Nguyen: 2:43

Well, Marilyn, for those of us who have not gotten a chance to get to know you, would you share a little bit more about your journey and what inspired you to focus on the retirement experience?

Marilyn Hintsa: 2:54

Sure. So I would say this journey into coaching started, before I retired. I was thinking that I wanted my post-career career to be in coaching. And so when I was unexpectedly early, retired in 2019, it was pretty easy for me to decide to enroll in a coach training school. And get whatever credentials I needed to get. And at the time, I was thinking that I would do leadership or executive coaching because people said, Hey, that's where the money is, you know? And I thought, oh, well I wanna make money. And so I chose my school accordingly. That's what they focused on. And then at the end of that, when I was gonna hang up my shingle, I thought, wow, I realize now that I'm entering a really, saturated market. There are a lot of coaches who do that, and I'm not sure I can. Distinguish myself in that group. And also by that time, it had been almost two years that I'd been out of the corporate world and I thought, I'm not sure I want to go back to those issues again. I'm not sure I care anymore. Right. Um, and a friend of mine in my network, he's in the health sector, and he said that he had been seeing, people, mostly men, who were on the verge of retiring or had just retired. Not being really happy with their situation and feeling lost or not sure what to do or not making the most of their time or whatever. And he said, they could use some coaching. So I did some research and found out that retirement coaching actually was a thing. and it resonated with me because when I was in my corporate job. I saw many people, again, mostly men who were in senior positions, had long and very lucrative careers in the business, and so were, very well set up to retire. And they were of an age to retire and they didn't, they just kept coming to work and sometimes working sort of half-heartedly. And I thought, oh my God, what a drag. I was somebody who wanted to retire the day I started working, so I thought some. I don't think that now I think that choice to continue working is a very valid choice and one that, there's all kinds of good psychological reasons for continuing to do that, but at the time, that's what I felt and that's why that idea of retirement coaching resonated so much with me because I thought, how nice to be able to help people do that better.

Yasmin Nguyen: 5:17

Speaking of helping people, are there specific types of clients that you work with and if so, what are some of the common challenges that you've noticed they face?

Marilyn Hintsa: 5:25

When I started my practice, I thought I would, well, I didn't think, I actually did try to niche my practice into a particular profession, and that did not work out well for me because I chose the niche for the wrong reasons. it wasn't really where I wanted to be spending my time, and so I ended up coaching people who came from a whole variety of different professions, different roles, different outlooks, and I still recognize that I should probably be niching in some way and figuring out who I really wanted to work for. But as you probably well know. It's not that easy as a retirement coach to find clients, regardless of whether you're niching or you're not niching. and the majority of us coaches are not brilliant business people. That was never our focus. And so it's challenging and so I. We all tend to take all comers is my impression of most of the coaches that I know. And so I did too. And now that I have changed the focus of my practice to be more group oriented versus one-on-one coaching with my, group work called Next Chapter Dialogues. What I want in those groups is as many perspectives and experiences as possible so that people can share and learn new things from each other. Niching or trying to figure out an ideal client would be a little bit counterproductive for that. having said that. the people in the groups are people who are thoughtful. They want to be learning, they wanna be sharing their experiences and hearing other people's, and they wanna be in community as they navigate this journey versus doing it on their own or doing it one-to-one with coaches. So I guess I have come around to a niche. but a big one.

Kathleen Mundy: 7:16

Marilyn oftentimes, it's our experience that limiting mindsets really make a difference on how people navigate this, And have you found that's the case? And if so, how do you shift their mindset and their perspective on the whole process of retirement?

Marilyn Hintsa: 7:35

That's interesting. I find that the limited mindsets come in, what their capabilities are, how much they're willing to step out of their box, how much they're willing to try new things, how much courage they have to, do something different. So I find that's the mindset limitation. And I think the only way to help people get over that is, to encourage them to take small steps, to encourage them to try a little bit, see how that goes and to get around to thinking if it doesn't work, it's no big deal. we can do something different tomorrow than we did today. and for me. Um, and the way that I tend to work with people, I think that retirement is a time for trying lots of different things, for saying yes to things And by doing that, you're discovering more about yourself. And you're able to slowly say, oh, I like doing this and I don't like doing that, and I like this about that, and I don't like this. And gradually coming to the place where you go, okay, if I put all of that information together, that's what I wanna do. I've now figured it out because I've tried a bunch of things and I've landed on the thing. That makes sense.

Yasmin Nguyen: 8:49

Marilyn, you talked about people stepping out of the box. I'm curious what have you noticed holds people back from stepping out of the box?

Marilyn Hintsa: 8:58

Courage or a lack thereof, or they don't know what they wanna do if they step out of the bar, like they don't know where to turn. They don't know where to start. and some people of course have been doing it their whole lives and it's easy for them. They love trying new things. other people who are a bit more, I don't know if conservative is the right word, but it takes courage to do it, and it also takes letting go of the fact that people are going to judge you because you've done something that turned out to be not really great, So it's getting rid of that sense of people will judge me. And I think that this time of our life is a wonderful time to strive to be our most authentic selves. And I think that does require us to try new things because by doing that, we learn more about ourselves. And once you are confident about who you actually really are without all of those masks and everything else that we put on when we're working, you develop the confidence to do new things. You develop a new confidence and you. are less concerned about the judgment of others,

Kathleen Mundy: 10:07

I wanna go a little bit deeper into this, Marilyn, because you've hit a nerve in so That you've just said. I can so relate it. Most of our listeners, our audience knows that I did retire and it didn't last long. And yes, I love working. but one of the things that you mentioned is the fear, or you don't have courage, but I think you're on point when you talk about judgment, fear of being judged, Of people saying, well, what are you going to do? what are your plans? And quite frankly, sometimes you don't have any. And, saying yes to everything worked for me because I was, it was really easy for me to, realize very quickly what I did not want to do. And I love that you brought that to the surface and I think that Many people need the courage to realize that judgment shouldn't be a part of it. And to have someone like you kind of walk them through that process of learning because it is a learned skill. Now I'm just curious though, if you've helped people get through this, can you give us an opportunity to just tell us a little story about a major breakthrough that a client had?

Marilyn Hintsa: 11:13

I had a client who was, had a very senior person in the not-for-profit sector, so CEO of major global, not-for-profit organizations. And he was six months from retirement when we met and he had gained a lot of, Notoriety in a positive way as a result of the work he had done. He had been rewarded for his work. and so he had a certain standing in society as a result, and he was concerned that this influence in standing in society might disappear when he retired. And so I said to him, so when you got into the work that you did that gave you so much satisfaction and at which you were so successful, when you got into that maybe in your twenties or your thirties, did you care whether you achieved a certain status in society? And he said, no, not at all. And I said, well, think on that because is it really that important to you? if it wasn't part of your value system at that time, it probably isn't anymore. And he was really taken aback by that. I don't know what he's doing now, but anyways.

Kathleen Mundy: 12:35

I think that experience must have really shaped the way you coach, because those are very pointed questions How did that change or shape your coaching practice?

Marilyn Hintsa: 12:46

I think that I've always been very direct in the way that I coach. I think that the role of a coach, quite frankly, is to be direct and say the thing that nobody else is willing to say. And ask the question that nobody else is willing to ask or won't ask In that way, they might be a little bit more obtuse about it, and you might eventually get around, but I've always been really direct, just in general in my personality, in the way that I, if I wanna know something, I just ask,

Yasmin Nguyen: 13:16

Marilyn, do you find that there are certain questions that you ask more often than others?

Marilyn Hintsa: 13:22

it's, it's hard to say because with every week we have different topics. so the questions are really driven by the topics, and I would say that they're questions like, what do you think of what I just shared with you? or, what do you think of this concept that I asked you to read about or whatever. and then as we go around the room and everybody, puts in their thoughts I do ask questions that kind of go a little bit deeper for each of them.

Yasmin Nguyen: 13:51

Is there a topic that you could share with us that perhaps you've discussed recently? like purpose or perhaps family relationships or loss or, common issues that people are really interested in engaging in?

Marilyn Hintsa: 14:06

Well, purpose was one that they were all interested in engaging in The idea of purpose is kind of amorphous for most people. They don't really know what purpose are we talking about? Are we talking about why I was born? Are we talking about, what gets me outta bed every morning? Are we talking about something else? I would say that each of the people in my group had a very different sense of what purpose meant. It parsing through that within the group really helped us come around to the idea that. There are these three levels of purpose. There's the big P purpose, what am I supposed to do with my time on the planet? And then there's the daily purpose, which is a bit like Ikigai. what am I going to do today that's going to be useful and helpful. Um, and then there's that in the middle. This this is my. Job right now. My role right now, what is the purpose of this sort of stage of life purpose? And, I found that the conversation with them on purpose, had a session on it and then it would pop up again later in another session when we were talking about something else. and they were still, we still struggle with this idea of. Okay, how do I define my purpose? What is it exactly? I can't put it into words, I can't articulate it. but I know when I have it,

Kathleen Mundy: 15:28

If someone's preparing for retirement, how would you help them? get into that space where they think about purpose in those three level terms that you just spoke about. How would you help them prior to their actual retirement date?

Marilyn Hintsa: 15:44

I would ask them to consider what they've, if they have not yet retired, How they consider purpose in their current life. So is it the work that's giving them purpose? Right now in, as they're working, has that always been true? Is it work that gives them purpose or is work just an expression of something for them? A way to make money, put a roof over their heads, and is there something else that gives them a sense of purpose? Is it their family? Is it their children? Is it their relationships? Like where does that sense of purpose lie for them now? And if it is in their work, then. I would talk to them about, okay, that's gonna go away. So if you don't have another part of your life where you feel purposeful, we're gonna have to work through what you might think is purposeful going forward, which might, be anything. I think it's most important for people to realize that. most of our lives, we don't think about purpose. It just is. It's delivered to us in various ways. We don't think about it. And so I think just beginning that thought process of, oh, purpose. Yeah, purpose work is my purpose that is it, or no, it's not. And then being able to get deeper into what purpose might be for you if you didn't have this job.

Kathleen Mundy: 17:11

that's a reflection of your direct questioning

Marilyn Hintsa: 17:14

Indeed.

Yasmin Nguyen: 17:17

Marilyn, it seems like you get a lot of joy in working with groups. what is it about the dynamics of, working with groups, really resonate with you?

Marilyn Hintsa: 17:29

It is interesting, I decided to go down this path, and it had been in the back of my mind for a long time and I was almost ready to shutter my practice and I said, no, you must try this before you shutter just to see whether this was the thing you were supposed to do. And so I ran a pilot group and I ran the pilot group partly to see how. People in the group would react to this and whether it would, resonate for them, but also to see whether I liked it, whether I enjoyed facilitating a group, whether I wanted to see them every week for 90 minutes.

Kathleen Mundy: 18:01

That's direct

Marilyn Hintsa: 18:03

I didn't say that to them.

Kathleen Mundy: 18:04

No, I'm just.

Marilyn Hintsa: 18:05

but I genuinely wanted to understand my own reaction to doing this sort of thing, right? And, it was interesting because, I was amazed at how much the group members got out of it, which of course made me feel really good. But I was also realizing week after week. That I'm actually good at this. That I'm good at facilitating a conversation. I'm good at coming up with a topic that people will be interested in talking about. I'm good at making sure that everybody in the group has a say and I don't let anybody get away with not commenting on one of my questions. and that again is my directness When I was in corporate and I would be doing a presentation and people would never sit in the front row, I'd get somebody to move all the chairs outta the front row so that whoever was in the second row was now in the front row. Because I said, come on, you guys, you're adults. Just sit in the front row for God's sakes. Anyways, so I do run my groups a little bit like that, where you cannot hide. You cannot hide from me and don't try. And so far that's worked out really well. But I think what I get out of it is I see the, the way that people share and the fact that after a few weeks they trust each other, they care about each other, they're willing to be vulnerable. And I just love that, dynamic that. Change that thing that happens in a group. I just think it's magical.

Kathleen Mundy: 19:39

That's evolution at its best.

Yasmin Nguyen: 19:42

Marilyn, you talked a little bit earlier about, holding, or I suggested that people are perhaps holding themselves back from stepping in the box, and I imagine that in a group setting, when you are listening to someone else share their story, that in some ways it gives you courage, but it also gives you permission to be able to contribute too. have you noticed something like that?

Marilyn Hintsa: 20:02

Yeah, for sure. I think that, when one group member talks about all the things she's been doing in within her community because she has decided that she just wants to experiment and try a bunch of other things, I can see other people going, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Maybe I could do that. Maybe I could try that. that doesn't sound so scary. And how did you end up doing that? so just the. The ability to turn to somebody and say, oh, that that course you took sounds interesting. How do I sign up for that? Or where do I go for that? Or, and now it's at the point where the people who are living close together wanna get together. I. In person, and so that would encourage them to also go off and do things together and try, because I think also that helps in stepping outta your box is if you've got a buddy who wants to step out with you.

Yasmin Nguyen: 20:52

that's so true. we've watched and read so many studies about loneliness and how that is so pervasive, especially in this chapter of our lives and what. You're doing is not only introducing people to new ideas, discoveries, but you're also connecting people and potentially new relationships that can really enrich their lives.

Marilyn Hintsa: 21:12

And that was part of my objective when I started this, because I have come to learn as a lifelong loner to a large degree. In my later years, I've come to realize how important having people in your life is and how lucky I am in spite of my loner tendencies to have developed a lovely group of friends. and I'm more grateful of that now than I ever have been. And I think that, you the idea of being isolated and lonely in your, oldest years would be terrifying. I.

Yasmin Nguyen: 21:48

Speaking of terrifying, how do you create a safe container or space for people to really share and be vulnerable?

Marilyn Hintsa: 21:55

that's where some of the magic is. I find it amazing, really. I don't know how I do this. I just, I don't know. It just happens.

Kathleen Mundy: 22:06

I don't think people have a choice because you make them sit in the front seat. You insist that they all participate. And sometimes when you do that, I remember, when we were in school, The first time you had to sit in that front row, it was a little bit nerve wracking, but then it became incredibly comfortable and everyone was behind you, so you didn't really have to even see reaction. But I think that your personality Has created this environment to make people come out of their shells, and see things a different way.

Marilyn Hintsa: 22:39

I don't know what else it would be.'cause I think I am, in spite of my directness is usually kind, I, I think that I accept people for who they are, and I don't really wanna change who they are and I'm curious about their stories. I'm curious about what they're thinking. And I think that comes through. Um, and I think that's part of building a safe space, and being a good listener, which is, something I learned to be better at and through coach training.

Yasmin Nguyen: 23:08

because you make people feel safe, you're not judgemental, I think that sense of feeling judged, frightens people from sharing.

Marilyn Hintsa: 23:17

yeah, and I'm, I've never been a judgmental person, so that is part of my personality as you suggest Kathleen.

Kathleen Mundy: 23:24

Well, Marilyn, it just, you mentioned how you've learned to listen. What other things Has this process taught you working with clients?

Marilyn Hintsa: 23:34

Listening is certainly a big one. I think it's also made me realize how to be curious, more curious than I might've been in the past. and that. we all have that we, don't always reveal. partly because of judgment. and that sometimes it's just enough to be there. You know when somebody needs some support, sometimes they don't need you to be asking them questions. Sometimes they don't need you to be. saying much of anything at all. They just need to have somebody who listens. And I was out with a friend recently and she had a close relative pass and she hadn't really been out since that happened. And we were sitting over dinner just talking about normal things we talk about when I finally said, and how are you doing? And she burst into tears. And she said, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I haven't done this for a couple weeks. And I said, don't worry about it. Just, just be, and afterwards she said that she was so grateful to have had that opportunity just, to, to a, have a normal conversation, but also to feel free enough in a public space to do that.

Yasmin Nguyen: 24:53

Yeah, that is such a gift to be able to share and be present and just listen and allow someone to be able to be seen and heard, and understood.'cause that in itself is the actual transformation that, some people may not have the opportunity to

Marilyn Hintsa: 25:08

Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because that's one of the hardest things for new coaches to learn, that they don't bring value by suddenly taking over and trying to teach the client something. They bring value just by being there for the client and allowing them to do the exploration that they need to do.

Yasmin Nguyen: 25:29

I bet that really. Is even more noticeable in a group type of setting because instead of being the teacher or the person who knows the answer, you're actually just facilitating, allowing them to interact.

Marilyn Hintsa: 25:41

Yeah. And especially when they decide to go in a completely different direction and the first time it happened, I've become like. Okay, what's happening now, because I tend to be quite script oriented and agenda oriented the first couple of times it happened, I'm like, okay, what do I do now? And it all worked out really well, and they had a lovely time and I thought, oh, I know how to do this too.

Kathleen Mundy: 26:03

Well, isn't it just another form of discovery though, certainly including,

Yasmin Nguyen: 26:07

Marilyn, if you were to meet someone who is thinking about retirement, what sort of lessons or what would you share with someone that's, on this journey? I.

Marilyn Hintsa: 26:18

I guess it depends on where they are in the journey, but if they're early in the journey, I think I would say don't go it alone. there's lots of resources you can draw on, ones that you can access on your own. You can hire a coach, you can. Talk to your friends, talk to your family. Talk to the people of similar age at your gym just because you're all in the same boat. And, will welcome the opportunity to chat about this time of life. if you're feeling alone, don't. You don't have to feel alone. there's lots of people around you who will be happy to share their experiences and, look at this time as a time of regeneration versus an ending and a time that is exciting and should be full of joy as your sign says behind you. those as your goals, to be joyful, to be happy are very excellent goals for this time of life.

Kathleen Mundy: 27:17

feeling joy just having this conversation today. it's wonderful to understand that there are people like you and our listeners are gonna be as impressed with your straightforward, and I think that it's a. Pure and a curious attitude that you have, I wouldn't say direct, I would say straightforward and compassionate. and that provides an environment for people to really be the people they want to be, as opposed to people that have, they've designed by virtue of their career or their family or some of the other, obligations they've had in life. I think today's conversation is. Been really freeing for many people who've been in that position.

Yasmin Nguyen: 28:00

for those, listeners who want to learn more about you and your work, how can we find you?

Marilyn Hintsa: 28:05

you can, access my website at www u lead u.ca. I'm also on LinkedIn under Marilyn ssa. I'm occasionally on Facebook, but not very often. but I welcome anyone connecting with me on LinkedIn or via my website.

Yasmin Nguyen: 28:23

Okay, great. We'll make sure to add those to the show notes. are there any final thoughts that you'd like to share with our audience just from our conversation or just anything that you wanna inspire people with?

Marilyn Hintsa: 28:34

Since I've been on this journey myself, my ideas about retirement have changed a lot. And I, at this stage, am, you know, really letting go of all of the shoulds about retirement. And there are a lot of them, there's a lot of pressure to have an ambitious retirement. There's a lot of pressure to, do great things in this next chapter. There's a lot of pressure to remain as young as you possibly can for as long as you possibly can. And that may be right for some people that may be what brings them satisfaction and a sense of purpose. But if you are not that person, if you want a much quieter life because you had a stressful job, your whole, career, then that's okay. And in fact, whatever you choose is okay. don't fall victim to the shoulds.

Yasmin Nguyen: 29:25

Well, what a gift to be able to have this conversation with you, Marilyn, and thank you for sharing your insights and being here with us today.

Marilyn Hintsa: 29:33

thank you so much for inviting me. This has been delightful.

Yasmin Nguyen: 29:35

right,

Kathleen Mundy: 29:36

Marilyn.

Marilyn Hintsa: 29:37

Okay.

Yasmin Nguyen: 29:38

Thank you for taking the time to join us today. If you enjoyed this episode or found it valuable, please subscribe, follow and leave a comment or view on your favorite platform. If you have friends, clients, or loved ones who are retired or thinking about retirement, we invite you to share this show with them. Check out this show notes with links to resources mentioned in this episode@realretirementshow.com. Remember, retirement is a joyful journey we get to experience together. Join us next week for another real retirement conversation.