National Year of Reading - Learning with Parents

For the National Year of Reading, we are sharing a series of short conversations with people who are involved in promoting reading with young people. This could be a programme, resources or a literary event, and we're giving them the opportunity to share what they do and how people can get involved.

In this episode we are joined by Tom Harbour the CEO of Learning with Parents.

Learning with Parents is a charity whose vision is that every child is supported at home to fulfil their potential.  Working with schools, they support  families to have positive learning interactions together. Using a digital platform they motivate and empower families to enjoy learning together at home using child-led videos and hands-on family activities which replace traditional homework. For reading, they offer a digital reading log that replaces traditional paper version and allows families to upload audio clips as well as easily record their child's reading.

They are also focused on learning what works in supporting parental engagement and are working with researchers at UCL to test what works in supporting reading for pleasure at home. They also  lead the Fair Education Alliance’s work on parental engagement and their forum which brings together organisations to network and share best practice around parental engagement.

Transcript

Katy 0:11

Hi, I'm Katy

Ali 0:13

and I'm Ali and welcome to Masty Book Talk. This episode is one of a series we are doing about book-related charities and what they're doing in the national year of reading.

Katy 0:23

And in this episode, we're pleased to welcome Tom Harbour, who's the CEO of Learning with Parents. So we're very happy to have with us today Tom Harbour, who is the CEO of Learning with Parents. And we're just going to start by asking what do Learning with Parents do? Tell us about it.

Tom 0:44

Thanks, Katy. Thanks, Ali. It's great to be here. So, yes, my name's Tom Harbour, CEO of Learning with Parents. And we are an education charity that aims to support all families to build habits of talk, play, and exploration. We do this by partnering with schools and by sharing our insights across the sector.

Katy 1:07

And how do parents connect with the schools? How does it work?

Tom 1:11

I guess we know that every parent loves their child, every parent wants the best for their child, but also that some parents face bigger barriers converting their good intentions into the sort of daily habits and routines in how they interact at home. And so we work through schools to drive that or support them to drive that inclusive parental engagement so that parents are given everything they need to build those habits of a really rich home learning environment alongside the child's schooling.

Ali 1:47

And does that start in nursery then from three plus up?

Tom 1:51

Yes. So our starting point was working purely with primary schools. And then we realized that there were some families who, despite the school's best efforts, were literally never engaging, never coming to our platform to look at the resources or anything. And so we knew we had to go earlier in that parent's journey to try and reach those families. And we often have those families whose eldest child is just starting school in mind. Because at that point, as a parent, you have no idea what it means to be a parent of a school-aged child. So if you're ever going to be influenzable, that is the moment where you're most likely to be influenza. And so we designed off the back of a great project called Mask Club. We designed a program called Ready Teddy. And essentially the essence of that is that parents and children, before their child start school, receive a physical teddy bear from school. And they have between, say, June and September to get Teddy ready to start school. So Teddy has to have been for a walk, Teddy has to have put his shoes on, Teddy has to have brushed his teeth, Teddy has to have read a book, Teddy has a bunch of experiences for the parent and child to give it, all easing that child into that school transition.

Ali 3:14

So that sort of school readiness piece that there's been a lot of conversations about, haven't there, about that not currently happening as well as it could do.

Tom 3:22

Yeah, absolutely. And it's very topical in that. And I think what we've seen from ReadyTeddy, firstly, is that parents feel more comfortable about what school readiness is and what is expected of their child when they start school. Secondly, that children settle faster when they're then in the classroom. But I think the biggest benefits so far have been seen on the teacher side. Typically, if you're a nursery or reception teacher on 1st of September, you'd have a list of names and you wouldn't really necessarily know anything about those children. But through Ready Teddy, the teachers are able to see all of the feedback from the activities that the families have played because all of our stuff uses tech to allow those insights into what's happening at home. So the teachers have reported, they get to understand children's interests and hobbies. They also understand children's fears and parents' fears about starting school. But then the thing that's most important for us probably is that teachers get to see here are the X number of families who have had a teddy bear, have had all the support, and have done absolutely nothing with it. And so then those are the families who on 1st of September, we would encourage them to go and learn those parents' first names and start building those relationships because we don't know why, but for one reason or another, that love for their child hasn't been converted into activities with Teddy. And can the teachers approach that with curiosity and start trying to build those relationships first and foremost?

Katy 4:51

Yeah. So in just practical terms, is it an app that the parents get and that's where the resources are as well? Or how does that work?

Tom 4:59

Yeah. So I guess taking a step back, parental engagement and driving parental engagement is really hard. And that was our starting point 10 years ago, saying we don't know how to do this, and we don't really think anyone knows how to do this perfectly. And so throughout everything we do as a charity, it's test and learn. We're not a charity that'll ever tell you, yes, we've got this perfect program and we just need to roll this out. Actually, we think printing gauge is a bit too hard for that. We have tools and programs that allow us to gain huge insights into those interactions that are happening at home behind closed doors, things that previously have been really hard to for schools to see anything about. And then from that data, be able to test and learn and try different things out as a school, try different things out for us as a charity, et cetera. And last year we had, I think, over one and a half million interactions that parents and children did together that then came and were recorded through our platform. So it's a huge bank of potential learning from that. So, yes, from a parent side, they receive in Ready Teddy, they receive their physical Teddy bear. And then they have a sent text message or an email with a link to a very short video, always of children of the same age, so two, four-year-olds talking about taking Teddy to the park or whatever it might be, and then they have an activity to click below it, which gives them a little bit of an idea, a bit of a structure of what they might do with their own child. We've worked very hard to make that as easy as paper, is the sort of motto we go for. And so there are no usernames and passwords. There's no those barriers for parents are reduced as much as possible in it being a tech platform.

Katy 6:46

Okay. And in terms of because obviously we're talking about the National Year of Reading, how does it work about reading and supporting parents' engagement in their children's reading? What's some examples of how you use it for that?

Tom 6:58

Yeah, so Red Teddy's a sort of first program that you would meet as a parent chronologically through us, but then the next one and our biggest program across around 270 schools is our reading program. And I always think of it as okay, now start reading with Teddy or teaching Teddy to read is the ideal transition. And our digital reading log, as it started out, was looking to replace the paper reading records that will send home with something that was more engaging, more useful, started as a foundation of building those strong school parent relationships. What we know, I think we're about four years into the digital reading log now. We know that it saves teachers a lot of time and allows them to be focusing on supporting reading in class or supporting those relationships with parents more than the admin of the paper. We know it helps teachers to understand the reading that's going on at home. Instead of just writing a comment in a book, parents are able to leave photos, written comments, but also audio clips. And we've had a lot of lovely examples from teachers telling us it's something like five or six times we've been told about teachers who have children in their class who are selectively mute and they haven't heard those children's voices, but then they read at home with mum, and mum sticks with a little audio clip on, and suddenly they can hear that child flourishing in their reading at home in their safety of that home environment. We choose audio clips over video because it's a lot less presentational. You just stick the phone. I've done it with my own child, you just stick the phone on the table and they carry on reading, and it doesn't get in the way that videoing does. And the true magic of the audio clips is you start to build an audio record of your child's reading and their development. And so if you imagine a reception child just starting out, sounding out their act and all the pain that comes with that, the parents might collect that as a clip. And then six months later, they're having other clips where they're actually sounding a few of those words together and it's starting to flow. And we encourage schools to use their parents' evenings to go back and play the early clips to the parents and play the recent ones and say, listen to that progress your child has made. That progress is because of all of the conversations they've had with you, all of the language they've heard around the home, all of the games that you've played that has led into that amazing progress. And just imagine where it might get to if every bedtime you were reading a story together or whatever else it might be for a particular family. And one of the things I think that does is start with a celebration of everything that parents are bringing and doing, and we call it asset-based parental engagement. And that for me is a really nice example of it, where you can say, listen to this progress your child is making because of all the stuff that you're doing already at home. Now let's think together where we could take them next.

Ali 10:13

And um it's interesting, isn't it? Because parents, there's a lot going on when you're parenting, trying to work, and parent. How do people feel is the response you get that it's a positive experience using this rather than feeling like big brothers checking up on me?

Tom 10:31

Yeah, it's such an interesting one for us. I think we started off in a slightly easy place because we're replacing the paper. And in some ways, if you're replacing something, it's not necessarily that great with something that's a bit better, then you're making a positive shift. And we hear that from parents all the time. We had one, I think it was just yesterday, where she was reporting how her experience of reading with her children, with her two eldest children and then with her youngest, where now they were using learning with parents rather than the paper record and how much better a habit they'd got into and more of a celebration of the reading it was that was going on at home rather than the sort of chore of filling it in every last day. But I think our aspirations for the reading log are much, much greater than that. And we've started with this sort of replacement of paper and making it work really well with schools. And we know schools love it and it's serving their purposes, but we really want to help parents with how do they develop that love of reading? How do they have a rich reading diet with their child at home? How are they exploring books in a range of different ways and giving them ideas? And that's very core to all of our programs, is giving parents these ideas of activities that they can try out with their child, some of which their child will just cotton onto and love and do day in, day out, and others will drift away and get lost. And that's absolutely

Katy 11:54

that's what I was going to ask you. Was it does it go beyond the phonics and the reading books and into reading for pleasure and that wider encouragement of going and getting books from the library or reading those books that are just there entirely for enjoyment?

Tom 12:08

Yeah. So for obviously it's the National Year of Reading now, and for the National Year of Reading, we are launching a partnership with UCL. And this comes out of a lady called Professor Rachel Levy, who did some research in Liverpool with families who were in more affluent and less affluent homes in the region. And she looked at what was driving those parents to read in the evenings or whenever with their children. And what she found was in the more affluent homes, it was more likely to be this sort of sense of obligation and a feeling that reading to their child was something they ought to do, something perhaps their peers were doing, and that was one of their main driving motivations. In the less affluent homes where that she went into, she often found it was around their child's enjoyment. So when their child was enjoying that reading interaction, then they would keep doing it. And that was the main thing that was driving the habit in those households more. And so through that, she became really focused on that reading for pleasure as a just not just a nice to have because of all the benefits of reading for pleasure, but also it's fundamental to building that habit in the communities that we're most keen to build that habit in. And so we have partnered with UCL. As I said, it started in January, and the focus of that partnership is looking at how can the reading log support reading for pleasure? And there are three strands to it. The first one is we have 40,000 families currently using this reading log. We have millions of feedbacks. What can we actually learn already from our data about what is driving that joy? When a parent's getting really positive comments, what sort of books do they like, what time of day is best, et cetera, et cetera. There's lots of that we could potentially already learn. The second strand of it is how could we learn more about reading for pleasure? And so actually a little survey question or thumbs up or thumbs down or some specific targeted bits that we could add that meant in the next two million bits of feedback that we get and so on, there might be richer data around Reading for Pleasure in there to help inform the sector. And then the third strand is and how could we improve our log so that it is most effectively driving that reading for pleasure? What are the activities that we could push parents towards? What are the nudges, the changes that we could make to feel like we were having a bigger impact on that reading for pleasure at home?

Katy 14:46

Nice. And then currently, like what just a small example of what kind of activity do you encourage at the moment, or do you suggest just to get a bit of a sort of feel for it?

Tom 14:56

So I guess I will maybe first answer that question in terms of the reading log and then in terms of our other programs where most of this currently happens. So in terms of the reading log, we keep it quite simple because it's replacing that paper diary as a starting point. But when we were researching it, we went and spoke to a group of refugee and asylum seekers in Coventry. And we said to them, what would you? We asked them, I think, a couple of questions around reading. What do you most want to read with your child? And what do you end up reading most with your child? And in terms of what they wanted to read, they said they wanted to read Bible stories, they wanted to read stories from the home culture, and they wanted to pass on spoken word stories that had been passed down to them to be passed down to their children. And then in terms of what did they read, it was, to be overly blunt, the sort of bif chip and kipper type books that school was sending home. And the reason was school sends them home. And so if school sends them home, they must be particularly important. So we will prioritize that reading because that's what's likely to be best for our child's learning. And as we got the feedback, we were just thinking no school would be wanting to drive that outcome in the reading that's happening with those families. No school would be wanting to quash the stories from the home culture, the spoken word stories, et cetera, that they're wanting to do naturally, but somehow through the messaging that we're putting out there, that is not seeming valued to them. And so it was really core for us that we said, tell us about what you're reading and through that process validated all these different types of reading. So are you reading a phonics book that your child has been sent home? Or are you reading a book that you've got around the house or something else? Or are you actually outside and you've just spotted some signs and you've read some things, or have you listened to something together, or have you sung a story, or have you done a and and so on and so forth? And we've got 10,000 examples of kids reading song lyrics to with their parents and thousands of recipes and all this sort of stuff, and just that rich wealth of reading that's going on and being validated, being celebrated, and being reported back to the teachers to all this richness. So that's the sort of first thing within the reading log. The main bit in terms of, I guess, we have three programs. So we have ReadyTeddy, we have the reading log, and then we have our sort of topics and activities, and that covers maths, English, and money skills. And through all of those, that's where we're really suggesting activities that families can do together. So to take a maths example, your child is learning about quarters, you get a one-minute video explaining you what explain to you what quarters are, and then you can get your four dolls out and you get a pile of pasta and you have a little picnic where you share that pasta out physically and your exploring quarters that are hands-on way. And we have that across, we have some 1500 of these topics covering reception TSX, maths, English, and and money skills as well. And so we have a lot of really rich reading activities there in the English. One of the things, like I say, we don't talk about our programs being just fixed programs that are perfect. One of the things that we're going to look to evolve is how does that reading and those English activities, how do they best sit together? How do we bring some of that those lovely activities to pull a cover over and you're in a den and get a torch on your phone and read a book together, or bring that book to life the next day when you're out walking and you can pretend to do this and that? Like, how do we get those activities not just to be where they currently are, which is like English homework type activities, but to be part of that reading habit? And that's one of the challenges for us over the coming months and yeah.

Ali 18:48

It is yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because in order to read your maths on about how to do a quarter, you have to be able to read the quarter and as well. So it's linking all those things together. When you're cutting your cake into four, that's a quarter and it's maths, it's also there's a recipe for the cake or whatever it is that goes all around it. That's really nice. That's a kind of nice max mash up together.

Tom 19:10

Yeah, and that's I guess why when we talked about right at the beginning, when I said what learning about parents exist for, we don't exist to support reading, we don't exist to support maths, we exist to support habits of talk, play, and exploration. And those are the bits of those are the interactions that come out of reading and come out of those maths games, etc., that we care about. So actually, we're compared to some of the other people on your podcasts and things, we're a lot less precious about the physical book or the reading itself. For us, it's a lot more around that conversation, that time that the parent and his child are spending together, the fact that the child is sitting on the parent's lap for a bit, like all of that feels like it leads to these positive outcomes, even if we're not totally certain exactly which ones those will be.

Katy 19:57

Lovely. And in terms of people, joining you or finding out about your services, you're really talking to schools, aren't you? As so they're the people who introduce you to parents. How should schools find you? How do they get involved? Are there any particular things you want to say that you're doing to that schools could get involved in?

Tom 20:17

Yeah, of course. So we have, as I say, around 270 partner schools. Most of our schools come to us either through word of mouth or through hearing us on things like this and being interested. So we have a website, learningwithparents.com, and they can go there and have a look. Now is so we're currently just the beginning of May. We're getting towards the end of the ready teddy period. So if schools are interested in that full ready teddy experience, then that would be relatively soon. But the reading log typically starts in September because schools are replacing those paper reading records with it as available, as are the full programs. We also get a lot of parents who recommend schools to pick it up. And so quite a few of our schools come through that sort of parents' championing it to their class teacher or to their school. And that is an option if you're a parent that's listening, that's uh otherwise unable to access it.

Katy 21:08

Okay. Yeah, Ali and I were not great fans of the reading log, were we?

Ali 21:12

We were also terrible reading log people.

Katy 21:15

We yes we weren't very good.

Tom 21:17

And this is part of the point, right? You didn't religiously fill in the I have no idea what you did, but let's assume you didn't religiously fill in your reading log.

Ali 21:24

No, let's assume that, Tom.

Tom 21:25

But let's assume that you read with your child or you spoke to your child.

Katy 21:29

We did. We just hated doing the logs. You did it.

Tom 21:31

And so that's why we don't really care about the recording of the reading. We care about the forming of those habits. And the more we can do to shift that, the better, from our point of view.

Katy 21:43

Yeah, no, we were definitely better at the reading than filling in the logs.

Ali 22:00

So you're talking about um reading is not just around the book, it's about that whole experience of being with your child. And what does that look like for you? What does that mean?

Tom 22:09

Yeah, absolutely. So we have a we have this concept of a reading diet, and there are four strands that we're exploring. We think it changes over the ages, but roughly if you think about it in four strands. One is around reading aloud, and that might be the child reading, that might be the parent reading, it might be the two together. Another strand is around listening together, audiobooks in cars or audiobooks, wherever, listening to stories if you go to a library and someone else is reading, but that joint listening and then talking around it, reading independently from one another, that might be the child is just looking at pictures. Whilst we've grown up is reading a real book. National Literature Trust have this lovely concept, or at least were the ones that shared with me, a lovely concept of snuggle reads, where the parent has a book, the child has a book, they pull a blanket over themselves and just reading together whilst having a snuggle on the sofa. And then a fourth strand around reading in the real world, the signs, the things that you're wanting to do that reading is unlocking. And so that's our sort of reading diet that we think of. And we would love to expose parents and children to as many of parts of that diet as is possible over the years.

Katy 23:25

Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice thinking about reading in in all of those different contexts. And it's that reading doesn't have to just be sitting there quietly, silently, or not reading a book. It could be other things. And presumably that includes football magazines or all of the the sort of that whole whatever interests you recipes you've already mentioned.

Tom 23:47

That works for you. And we have a saying that parents aren't teachers. Teachers are expert in the curriculum, but parents are expert in their child. And so whatever the parent feels is best for that child, and that might be following their interests. Also, just opening up and giving permission for reading in their home language, it's so commonly shared but rarely celebrated in that as much as we would like. So things like that where the parent has that agency to tailor it for their child who they know and love better than anyone else in the world does.

Katy 24:19

Lovely. And so then just finally about the National Year of Reading. What are your hopes for the National Year of Reading?

Tom 24:25

I think if we could, as learning with parents, give the National Year of Reading a an ambition, it would be every bedtime, a bedtime story. And I think that because bedtime stories are have such a potential to be a win-win. They are that special time with the parent and child together. They are happening every single day. And so if you're looking to build reading as a habit every day, it's nice to have that structure around it. And it's slightly less chaotic than some of the other points of our parenting lives. But also reading to with a child slows, I'm not gonna go into the biology of it or that I know the biology of it, but slows it down. You're not having that screen that's energizing you and going to make bedtime harder, it can make that bedtime process easier, and that itself is a win for the parent. And so if we can support that every bedtime to be a bedtime story, then I feel like that would be a huge shift in the reality of what's happening in many homes up and down the country and in the outcomes for the young people that we all care so much about.

Katy 25:39

Yeah. I would say, having now sprouted two fully fledged adults, that some of my happiest memories are definitely reading with them when they were little. And not so little, because I persevered longer than perhaps they might have liked. But yeah, but definitely those happiest moments and those nicest moments and amongst the chaos, you definitely get in that those sitting down and reading at the end of the day. So brilliant. Thank you. Cool, thank you very much.

Ali 26:06

Thanks, Tom.

Tom 26:06

Thanks so much.