Killing Words

Transcript

Jim: 0:01

Hello and welcome to this episode of Decide on Joy, a podcast coming to you from Harmony Spiritual Center in Fort Worth, Texas. My name is Jim Covalt.

Pjae: 0:11

And I'm Rev. Dr. P. J. Stanley. Welcome and thanks for coming.

Jim: 0:15

And this is a podcast about some basic stuff about new thought spirituality and how to apply that in daily life, although today's episode is more general than that. It's not really specific to new thought.

Pjae: 0:28

It's not. It's a podcast.

Jim: 0:29

And the title is called Killing Words, Apologizing for Past Hurts. So why Killing Words? What is that? It's so,

Pjae: 0:37

it's so interesting because I, you know, you, you think about things that, that, that someone has said. And someone who's, over your life, like your parents, you know and as much as I know that my parents love me, there's just no doubt in my mind, there are things that my mother said to me and I had this conversation once with my sister as well, that she said to my sister that stuck with my sister, and it was like a dagger to the heart. And it's like a dagger to my heart. And when I thought about those words, I, and she never, we never got to talk about it. I tried to bring it up one time and she refused to talk about it. And then I, I thought, well, what dagger kinds of words to the heart have I done to my daughter or to people that I care about? So I, you know, just begin to reflect on that. And it's a, you know, it, it seems like a small thing, but it actually is a big thing. It's actually a big thing. And so these, these words are just that my mom did to her nose loves me just because of her inability to talk to me about it. And so that I could just express and just let that go, then just ends up going further into my heart,

Jim: 1:39

you

Pjae: 1:39

know, and so they're killing words.

Jim: 1:41

There was another side to that, though, too, isn't there? Did you let her know that

Pjae: 1:49

You know, yeah, I let her know as an adult, you know when you when you're a kid and something happens You know because they're telling you I'm telling my mom what's going on at the time. It's happening and she's telling me to shut up You know and so okay, so you're shutting up because it's your parent but later on And it really affected me in a, in a negative way. And later on, I wanted to talk to her about it. But I believe, and this is just me because she never talked about it. I believe she was embarrassed about what happened. And she, if I remember, she remembers. So I believe, I don't think that she didn't remember that. She just didn't want to believe that she hurt me in that way. I know that I don't want to believe that I hurt my daughter as much as I care for her. But I have to own that. In fact, I did. I didn't intentionally do it, but I did. And so so yeah, to your question was, yeah, I, I didn't talk to her at that time, but I did try to talk with about it later. And she didn't want to talk to me about it.

Jim: 2:43

Yeah. I mean, it's something it's my background in theater. I had to constantly try and be aware of, anyway, as a director, how to say things to people and all. And you never know what's going to happen.

Pjae: 2:57

You don't. You don't.

Jim: 2:59

And I can think of at least one instance where years after the fact, someone said that they had been so disturbed by something I had said to them that they had to talk to their therapist about it years later.

Pjae: 3:14

You sent them to the couch.

Jim: 3:15

I know, right?

Pjae: 3:17

Wow.

Jim: 3:18

And the thing is, I would never have known that because actually even when they said that I was like, yeah, okay. Come on. So as far as my apology was, well, I recall it differently, but I'm sorry it affected you that way. Yeah, but yeah, but I, what I'd said was not, you know so it's tricky, you don't know.

Pjae: 3:41

It is, it is tricky. And, and you know, this in new thought, what we talk about is, you know, what's yours to do? What are you responsible for? Right. And so I'm not necessarily responsible for how people take things. I'm not responsible for that. However, if I'm in a relationship with someone and they I did say something to them and they come to me and say, listen, I you said this and this is how I took it. That gives me an opportunity to say, Oh, I apologize. That's not what I meant. Here's what I meant. So if we keep the, if we keep the lines open, then, you know, the hurt didn't have to go on for years. It could be healed and it doesn't have to even be a hurt, but, but, but a misunderstanding, you know, of what your intentions were. You know what I mean? And I'm certainly as a, as a, as a director, you know, you're trying to get things moving. You don't have a whole lot of time to be, you know, nurturing people through a particular thing. I need you to get off that spot and get on that spot. You don't have a lot of time. So, you know, I can, I can imagine that would set up a lot of possible hurt feelings for someone.

Jim: 4:40

Yeah you have to find the tactful way to say it. I think maybe we should take a different direction here.

Pjae: 4:45

Have you looked at, think about. Let's have another direction. What are you thinking? What do you think of another, if you could think of something else, what would that be? Yeah exactly. Yes.

Jim: 4:55

And it does, to, to, to, to, to. Initiate that as the person who intends to apologize anyway, it does take a certain amount of courage or, or, you know, okay, I'm going to

Pjae: 5:08

Exactly. You have to be self surety. You have to be sure of yourself. You you, I know, I know what my intentions are. We talk about this all the time. You know, when I look at my top values unconditional love is top for me. So I know my intention. Is to see good, to see God, to see beyond someone's behavior into who they actually are. Which I think is a great person. So, so I know that. So I know that about me. I know that's my intention. So if you, I said something and I know that I can be abrupt. I mean, I used to another yeah, well, I used to have a band and you know, you got to get them on the stage, you got to pop the stage, it's much like a director, you got to get them on and off. And so my band called me Abrupt PJ. That was, That's what they call me because I don't want to talk about it. We can talk about it later. If you're feeling hurt, you can talk about it later in the car. Right now, get up and get off. Let's get, you know, so I know that I can be abrupt. I have no problem with owning that. I also am sure enough about myself and my intentions that if you come to me and you say, Hey, I want to talk about something, I want to hear it. I want to hear it, particularly if I want a relationship with you. Now, if I'm not interested necessarily in a very deep relationship, I'm still going to be kind. I'm not really sure how much of my interest is in hearing what you have to say simply because we don't really have a relationship. But if we have one, I'm definitely going to Be be interested in hearing what you have to say and really hearing you from the heart not Listening so that you stop and I can defend myself Actually listening, you know and hearing what my part in it and how I can how I can help this relationship move forward That's my intention, right? So I think that's a big deal. What is your intention to begin with? What's your intention?

Jim: 6:59

Sure. Yeah, right

Pjae: 7:00

and everything. What's your intention? Right? Yeah

Jim: 7:04

and that's that's a situation where maybe The, the offended person has, has introduced the topic. It seems like it's maybe even harder if you are on the other side of it, and you think, okay, I know That I did this and it wasn't good in retrospect. Yes, and to bring it up, although it's been lying there peacefully

Pjae: 7:28

Underground Right, you know, I mean then we it's been laying there, but it hasn't peaceful. Yeah, you know not even for me. So yes you know when I started thinking about Things that my mom had said and my, my, my sister told me about, my baby sister was telling me some things that my mom said to her that she still holds now and so I started reflecting on myself as a mom, what are some of the things that I said to my daughter, and I remember a particularly unique experience She and I were traveling and we were going to see her brother graduate. He wasn't living with us at the time. He was living with his father and and we were traveling to to Colorado. And, you know, I'm just in my own feelings at the time. You know, and I'm, I'm driving when I could have flown. But I'm driving because she can't afford to fly. My mother can't afford to fly. A lot of people want to go. So I thought, you know, let's just hop in the van and let's just drive. From California to Colorado. So I'm driving. I'm feeling nobody's sharing their drive, right? I'm just so you know, I'm feeling sorry for myself and all this and and then my daughter brings up She tells me in the middle of that drive that Sometimes she doesn't know whether I love her or not Well, that was a dagger to my heart, because number one I'm in the car driving, okay?

Jim: 8:41

Not the ideal time to Okay, not really,

Pjae: 8:43

not really the great, great time. Those

Jim: 8:45

of you who are seeking apologies, don't do it in the middle of a drive to Colorado.

Pjae: 8:49

Okay, don't do that. That's not, that's not a good place to do it. If the other person's driving. Okay, don't do it. Don't do it. That's number one. And number two is that, and maybe she didn't know this. But she is the love of my life. She was my first child. I was a teen mother. She saved my life. She really did because when she came it made me, it made me grow up fast because of her. And so, so, and when I, her name is Michelle Angelique. Honestly, it seems crazy. But because because she was an angel. I felt like she was an angel. So how much love I have for her is, is amazing to me. And that she would sit there and say, sometimes I don't know if you love me. And so I just shut it down. I said, I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't even know what you're talking about. And I just wouldn't even let her talk. Well, clearly there was something that had gone on that she didn't know whether I loved her or not, but I wasn't in the place to hear it for a long time. Yeah. And it wasn't until she was an adult, and my, I think this past year, actually, that we were together, and we, that conversation came up in my mind, and I brought it up, and I said, I don't know if you remember this or not, you know, but when we were going to Colorado, and she finished it before me, she goes, oh yeah, I remember. So, just cause you're not talking about it.

Jim: 10:08

Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't

Pjae: 10:10

mean it's not laying there like a dead fish. Yeah. Okay? Yeah.

Jim: 10:17

And it can, it can really repair things. It

Pjae: 10:22

really can. It really does. It gives a person, first of all, The ability to speak on something she wanted to speak on years ago. So to validate the fact that she wanted to talk and now I'm here to listen and that she was willing to tell me about It at that time. Well, you know years later. She was still going to talk about it So good for her for being able to do that. Secondly, I validated the fact that I screwed up and I want to hear you now And she was able to tell me then So it was it's just really great for the for the two of us And it was not at all what I thought it was about it was about something completely different that I was I was unaware of something that happened in our family I wasn't aware of that. She was trying to tell me and so I really really felt bad about that So now i'm thinking okay, so she's a teenager. She couldn't even come tell me something She couldn't come tell me that was really deep on her heart. So that was Really piercing for me and for her for both of us and what I But she had to go through, because I wouldn't listen. You know, it's a growing experience, but it just revealed a lot.

Jim: 11:23

Yeah. And you can, you know, I mean, obviously, she could have and may have herself gone back and thought about that and, and dealt with it, but it certainly helps if the other side of the situation gets involved and says, yes, that is true. And

Pjae: 11:46

I did happen and I apologize. There are many conversations that I've had with my mom that I've straightened out of my own head because she's no longer here. I can't. Right. And so that's just me doing that and getting comfortable with my own self. Right. To have heard it from her would have been great. Yeah.

Jim: 12:02

And, I, ideally, I suppose, it would also, Maybe, depending on the situation, you could learn from that and say, okay, dealing with this differently in the future. I mean, that's kind of, in that example, exactly, maybe, because that situation isn't going to repeat.

Pjae: 12:25

It's not going to repeat. But. But, but what, what could have happened is that, well, I wasn't, she wasn't able to approach me then, could have tried it again. Another time, right? You know what I mean? And so for her and her mind and our relationship that door was closed It didn't feel it was closed on that trip just because of where I was she didn't know that she's she's a couch She's a child. Yeah the mom it's closed. I said no talking. It's closed It's like my mom told me, you know, stop stop being stupid or whatever. She told me I came in with what it was I told her the truth. It was really having to stop being a baby. That's what it was. She's stopping a baby and And And so, I stopped talking. I never said anything else.

Jim: 13:03

I stopped talking.

Pjae: 13:04

That's what we do. That's what kids hear. You

Jim: 13:05

stopped talking?

Pjae: 13:06

Can you believe that?

Jim: 13:08

I

Pjae: 13:08

know.

Jim: 13:09

That's serious. Woo! And there may also be, you know, things You might need to apologize for the omission of them. I mean, like, things That wasn't said. Yes, exactly. Or things that you never talked about. Although perhaps they should have been, you know. All of this is sounding like it's stuff from the distant past, but it doesn't have to be. No,

Pjae: 13:34

it's, you know, it's it's, there's no, there's no time frame. If there's something on your heart To talk about with someone else. It's probably on their heart as well It probably is and You said it earlier. It takes courage So sometimes we think well i'm going to let sleeping dogs lie, but they're not sleeping They're not And so have the courage to just say I was thinking about this conversation. We had a few years back Do you remember and see what they say if they don't remember maybe it it is just you You But if they do, then maybe it's worth a conversation,

Jim: 14:12

if it's been on your heart. And it could even be, you know, I've been thinking about that conversation we had yesterday. Yes!

Pjae: 14:19

Yes! And I

Jim: 14:19

realized that I didn't I didn't understand what you were saying, or whatever. Whatever

Pjae: 14:24

it was. I didn't allow you to speak. I wasn't really clear. I was tired. Like, can we come back to the conversation because I really do want to hear from you. This, this, yeah. It's not too early. Not too late. Yeah. Just go back to it.

Jim: 14:36

Yeah.

Pjae: 14:36

Yeah. Go back to it. That's all. Killing words don't have to, don't have to kill ya. They can just be hurting words. Not killing words. They get, they become killing words when you don't readdress them.

Jim: 14:46

Exactly. Yes. They're

Pjae: 14:47

just herding words until then.

Jim: 14:49

Yes. Like the sleeping dogs can keep gnawing at you.

Pjae: 14:55

Just nip, nip, nip it. Exactly. Okay. Yeah.

Jim: 15:02

Is that a good place to stop? I think so. I mean, I think we've, I think we've gone

Pjae: 15:05

on. I think we understand. It's just, okay. Good to talk.

Jim: 15:08

Excellent. Thanks for being here, everyone. And we'll see you next time.

Pjae: 15:13

Yes.