Empathy

Transcript

0:01

Hello, and welcome to this episode of Decide on Joy, a podcast coming to you from Harmony Spiritual Center in Fort Worth, Texas. My name is Jim Cobalt and my name is Reverend Dr. PJ Stanley. Welcome. Thank you for being here. And today we're talking about empathy, which has become somewhat of a hot topic. Yeah. Recently. Yeah. Oddly enough about, yeah, I was gonna say I'm not, I'm not sure about that. I mean, I'm, I know that it has, I don't know why I haven't really actually investigated that. Yeah. Well, we can get into that. So talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, but probably we should start off by kind of deciding what exactly it is, right? I think so too. I still, it's one of those things we think we know. Yes, yes. But. Yeah, there's sort of different varieties of it, apparently. Okay. Yes. All right. I, yeah, I was thinking about it as opposed to say, sympathy, so you have different varieties. Empathy, that would be a good place to start. Okay. How is it different from sympathy? So. So from my understanding and the way that I'm, that I utilize it empathy is more where you connect with the feeling that the people are having. So it's, it's, it's it's more interconnected because you are actually sympathy is where you can say, oh yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry for that, but not actually be involved in how it works out or offering any kind of advice or anything like that. Empathy, you actually have to go within and pull up that feeling. So it's that, so that you, and you relate to them from the feeling that you've had whatever it's, they're talking about. So it's a, it's an interconnected situation. That'ss the difference, right? Yeah. And the thing I was saying about there being different. Varieties of empathy. I more than one source was talking about this. They had different names for them, but, but there is one level where you're making a pretty much a conscious choice to imagine, okay, the other person or animal or fictional characters feelings. Okay. And. So that's using your imagination where there's also a level of it where you're actually. Feeling their feelings, feeling what they're doing. Okay. Yeah. Which can also happen with fictional characters. I was gonna say, so, so it's, in order to imagine, wouldn't you necessarily, wouldn't you have to have some context for Oh, sure. For where it comes from? I would think so, yeah. So you would still have to, I think, pull some place out of yourself where you have some similarity to have having had it even if you're imagining this particular situation. Yes. And it might. It might take more work of the imagination depending on how far it was from your experience. Correct. You know? Correct. But I mean, maybe it's harder to imagine the experience of people involved in the Civil War in Sudan. Exactly. So for instance, that Yeah. Have not been there. Yeah. But you can work on imagining that if, if you yeah. I think it, and then there's, there's also the, the third kind that's sort of the second one, but with kind of a step back where you're, you're, you feel it and you're involved, but you're can step back from it enough to. Be helpful or to deal with it or, okay. So don't go down the hole with them. Yes. Essentially. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you understand the hole they're in. Yes. But you're not in there with them. Yes. And it's interesting that we immediately talk about negative things, but you could also be sharing, right, joy. Yes. Yeah. Joy. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Like a wedding, babies, all kinds of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were just, you and I were talking about just trips. You know, trip, just traveling. Mm-hmm. And the different ways in what we, which we've traveled and just, and the different ways in which you were talking about a particular show and how they just kind of just get on the road with no real plan and thought. Mm, I don't Mm, okay. I, that just brought up all kinds of anxiety. Yeah. For me, for me. And so, I dunno if it might be empathetic with me about being, about having travel anxiety, but still I understand exactly what you're talking about. That we, we get to imagine that. Yeah. And. If we can, I, I don't know to what extent you're just born with whatever level of it you have. Yeah. Or whether you develop it. But I know in my case, it certainly developed it because I can remember as a child, I mean, it was probably the time when the idea was first. I mean, no one used the word empathy, but Right. But looking back, you know, that's what it was. Yeah. That was, I got somewhere in between eight and 10. Was shooting like pointed but toy, bow and arrow things at, at this toad. And my mother saw me doing this and came out and said, okay, how would you feel if this giant came along and started torturing you? And I was like. How are they? Oh yeah, good point. It had not, that had not occurred to me before. Yes, yes. And therein, I think it's part of the issue, isn't it? Yeah. And why? It's, I think from a spiritual perspective, and this is'cause it's a show about spirituality and, I think connectedness. Why, why would, it's important that we understand what, what the value of empathy. And I, and, and I, and I love that, that you just said, to what level or degree do people necessarily have it, because it's like anything else. It's like a, it's like a, like a, a talent that you have. Some people can sing and we have a, you know, we have people here that sing in the audience, that sing on stage, and the people have different levels of talent. But we. We, we allow everyone to sing.'cause everyone can sing just to what degree. Yeah. And so I think empathy can't, it has to be the same thing that, that some people have a higher degree or were born with it or know what it is from the beginning. Whereas other, like you say, you didn't, it wasn't. There. I mean, it was there, but you hadn't, hadn't, your, your attention hadn't been called to it until your mom said, what about that You immediately understood. Yeah. So it wasn't like you'd have it at all, you just hadn't brought it up. Yeah. And and that's certainly a case where you would have to be using the imagination for him, because I can't really Yeah. You're not a fraud. I wouldn't share the emotions of the toad. I Toad had any emotions. No, I have no idea. It's your idea. Zero idea. But. I think, I don't know. I mean now as an adult, it seems to me anyway, in this sort of self-congratulatory, and I don't mean it to be, it just what it is. It is what it is. It's that I'm sufficiently empathic just naturally that I have to kind of work to turn tone it down exactly. This isn't me. This is not my issue. Yeah. I don't need to go there. They're not asking for my help. They don't need that from me right now. No, I understand completely because you, I think you can become crippled. Yes. If you, if you take on too much. So there's a, like everything, a many things Balance. Yeah. Balance. What, what, what's yours to do? That's a question we ask a lot. I ask people to ask so that you're not. Taking on things that aren't yours. What is mine to do? What's mine to do here? Right? And even when you ask that and something comes to you, you're not obligated to do it. It's just getting clarity for yourself. This, to me, this for me, for me and this podcast and deciding on joy is about individual abilities. To say what you want to do and what you wanna get involved in and why. And know what's, you know, what's available to you and what's not available to you or from the, from a universal and spiritual perspective. So that, that's what this is about. So what we're talking about empathy, and we're talking about whatever we talk about. You get to decide how, is this something for me? Is it something I wanna do? Do I see the value in it? And then how. How, how do we do it and why, why is it important? So I, I really love this topic of, of empathy. Yeah. I think it's about connectedness. I don't know that you could be empathetic without connecting with someone. No, absolutely not. Yeah. And and, and you can make a conscious choice to do that. Yeah. You know, I mean, you can say to yourself, okay, I'm gonna sit here and actually listen to this person. Yes. I'm gonna turn off my own noise and about me right now. Yes. Yes. You can say that. You can decide that. Yeah. The thing that I mentioned earlier,'cause I was shocked the first time I saw it. Some somewhere in news or whatever, that someone was talking about. Empathy being a bad thing. Oh, I didn't hear that. That's news for me. Some Christian elements, certainly not universally, certainly, and it's very controversial, even there are saying that it is in fact a sin. That's news to me. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And I think from what I can tell, this is not deep research, but I think from what I can tell, that their issue is if you're. Empathetic with you're condoning. Yes. Mm-hmm. And I can see where that would go. And it stops you from taking appropriate action and I love that word, appropriate action. Mm-hmm. Really? Mm-hmm. Okay. You know, I do. And so in, in that regard, and this is also, I understand coming from like the, like the tech bro community, you know? Okay. There. Okay. The, the whole corporate thing, you can't you, you won't be able to lead people properly if you're empathetic to their situation. Mm-hmm. Really? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Alright. That's probably an oversimplification. No, no, no. Of course it is. We have to with a radio show, I mean, free to let us know how much you disagree, but really we'd love to hear from you. Yeah. But I gather that's what that's about. Okay. Not quite as shocking as when I first saw it, then I thought. What, what? Just, just what overall thing saying this is bad. Wow. Wow. And there is I think he's sort of a philosopher person who has actually published a book called Against Empathy. Okay. His is about something else altogether. Okay. I mean, it's, it's okay. It's a good title, but not necessarily, what he's saying is you should not use it as a moral code. And that's a whole other Okay. A whole nother issue. A whole other We're not going there. No. No, we're not. No. Yeah. I think my point about empathy is. Because my me, this is me, Dr. Stanley, talking about what I believe for the human race, human race, everybody that's involved in that is that unconditional love heals. If you can see and see someone unconditionally. And empathy is a part of that. Yeah. It's a part, it's a part of that. So all of that goes with i, I, I believe that we. W just like we're talking about decide on joy and what's, how do you manifest the best life for you? That's a decision you make. What is the best life? And I'm doing this in quotation best mean that everybody gets to do that. So what part of empathy makes your life good? What part of sharing this planet, what part of being concerned about people who don't have as much as you have? I know that if I am. Loved, cared for thought about by a number of people as I care and think about other people as well. And I'm not clear how I would survive on the planet if other people didn't do that. Yeah. I, I feel that that's the brotherhood of man is to take care of. Not necessarily take care of one another, but certainly be concerned about what's happening to the other person. So that's where empathy comes in. How, how do we do that if we don't have empathy for someone's situation? So, right. That's the, the value of it for me. And obviously in, in one-to-one relationships and things Yeah. Oh, my stars. Yes. How can you operate that without caring about and, and knowing and feeling what someone else is going through? Yeah. Yeah. Right. How do you, how do you do that? Obviously some people do, but clearly, yeah, I guess I'm asking that question. It's not rhetorically I'm asking it from my perspective, obviously. Right, exactly. Your perspective. It has to be that. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody gets a perspective. So we're just giving you this perspective, this perspective on empathy. Yes. I mean, I certainly have known of couples where it certainly appeared that one of them, yeah. Did not have that quality at all. But yeah. And, and this is, so this is, this will probably be a talk to one of our subjects, you know, about what, what makes relationship works, relationships work, and, and so for me, I, I wanna be in a relationship that isn't about. Lemme just talk about what it is about instead of what it isn't about. I wanna be in a relationship where I care about people, their wellbeing is part of, of my thinking and vice versa. My wellbeing is part of their thinking. Not that they're responsible for my wellbeing. I'm not responsible for yours, but I care about it and what I can, whatever I can do to help you without losing my own self in it. So it's a whole balance of, of. You knowing what it is, who you are and where you want to be. And in that, being able to be involved with someone who's going in a direction or not even necessarily in the same direction but that you care for and that you care that they get where they want to go as well. So I I How do you do that without having empathy? Yeah, for what they're, what's happening to them when they don't get quite what they want when they, it doesn't quite go with where the way they want it to go when they're not feeling well. Just a number of things that don't always. Work out.'cause this is a, this is a a, a, we're human beings and it's an energetic planet, so things aren't gonna always work out in the long run. I believe that they do, but certainly. Day to day, and as we're moving forward, we have ups and downs. Yeah. How, how do you, I don't wanna be with someone who can't be empathetic, and not that I'm not allowed to be empathetic to their ups and downs. I, I wanna do that. Right. You know, I just, that's, oh, that's interesting, isn't it? That someone might not, might not want that. Yeah. Might not want you, you know, don't, don't feel sorry for me. It's not feeling sorry for you. I'm not feeling No, that's, it's a difference's dnce thing altogether. Yeah. I'm not feeling sorry for you. I, I am relating to you and feeling, being there with you in that feeling without taking it on, but being there with you so that there's more understanding of where you are. Right. Right. And, and if it. It hasn't happened naturally. You can make the effort to get there. That part, you know, you can say, okay, what, okay, I wanna grow that. I'm gonna grow that. There's not a lot of that in me. I might wanna grow that. Or even in a particular instance, you know, there might be someone's behavior that you're, you're totally put off by, but. You can make the, that first level of, of, of empathy, of, of imagining what is going on there. I love that. Yeah. You're right. That's where the imagination would come in. Yeah. That's one of the places that would come in. Yeah, absolutely. Which doesn't necessarily mean that you would then say, oh, they're absolutely right. But, but you might at least understand. Yeah. Okay. I see where you're going. I'm not there, but I see where you're going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I see that. I see that. Yeah. And so, and so then the value of just relating to other people it's because we are human beings and because we are social human, we are social beings. We come together in community. That's how we survive. Right. And, and I don't wanna just survive. It's to survive and thrive. Empathy is a part of the thriving part of life, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. So we, we are human beings. That is the nature of us to care, to love to, you know, to be involved with one another in community. Being empathetic with someone else's situation is, I think a big part of that. Oh yeah. And you can grow it. Yeah, absolutely. You can understand it, see what it is, grow it, decide what parts you want to do or not do in that. So yeah. And I don't hearing you say that made me think it's not just a human thing. I mean Right. I, I see good point. Videos of animals sometimes of different species helping one another, and clearly they have to have first understood. The problem that there's so going on. Yes, yes, yes. I was just, before we came was looking at this little short reel and it was a golden retriever mother. And she had puppies and there was a cat in the house. They were pets. And the mother cat had just had kittens and the retriever went and got the kittens and brought'em over to where she was there with her puppies. And the, the owner was saying, huh, what's going on here? Well, maybe she sees that the mom needs some rest. Hmm. And so she just went and got, and just let them lay there with her. Huh? It was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the kid and the, and the cat, the mom cat didn't, you know, fight or whatever, say, what are you doing with my babies? She just looked at her like, and the look on her face was like, thank God. I don't know. That's, that's what I, well, there again, so you're imagining Yeah. I'm imagining empathy with that cat. I'm imagining that. Correct. Correct. Oh. But yeah, I so it, it. Seems like a, a very useful quality actually, I think so too. Particularly if. Do you have any interest in cooperating with people or helping people or any of those things? Which I would think is part of the new thought spirituality structure. It absolutely is. And I think part, the only thing that's also in your best interest, because if you want, if you get what you give, you do, that's the, the whole yin yang thing. You're not gonna get warmed out the other if you, whatever. And this was something I think my mom or maybe it was the, the first person I met. I can't remember where, where I came, where this came from. But if you want something, give it. Mm. That's the, if you want something, give it. And so that's interesting. But I think the reason why you give it is to understand it. You can't give what you don't understand. Mm-hmm. You can't do it. Mm-hmm. And so as you're doing that and you're, and you are giving something away, you're creating that yining yang back and forth energy. And so that's just one of, that's just a, that's a small rule in the spiritual world. Whatever you want to have, give first. Well, good role. Maybe a good place to end this episode. It could be. Thank you for being here, and we will see you next time.