Growing Up Called | with Madelyn Gore

This week, I sit down with Madelyn Gore to talk about what it’s really like growing up as a PK (pastor’s kid). From the expectations and pressures to the beauty of being raised in ministry, Madelyn shares her personal journey navigating faith in every season. We also dive into music ministry, what it means to pursue anointed excellence, and how to serve God with both heart and discipline. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Honey and Grace podcast. I'm your host, Veronica Waldrum, and I pray that we can taste and see a little bit of God's goodness through today's episode together. Let's do it. Welcome back to the Honey and Grace Podcast. I'm so glad that you are listening today, and I pray that today's episode will bless you and your day whenever you're listening to this. I am super excited for this episode because I do have a special guest with me, and she is great already. I feel like I just met her, but I feel like I've known her. She's so sweet. So I'm so excited to hear more from her on this episode. Thank you so much, Madeline, for being on the podcast. Please, if you would, take a second and just introduce yourself, and you can just tell the listeners whatever you want us to know about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Okay, so well, first of all, thank you so much, Veronica, for having me on the Honey and Grace podcast. I'm a huge fan and been listening for a little bit of a minute now, but a little bit about myself. My name is Madeline Gore. I'm 21. I uh was born and raised in Dallas, Texas. Still live here. My parents pastor the refuge church. So I've been a PK all my life, and I have loved every minute of that. I'm one of four. So I have an older brother, Landon, and I have an older sister, Elizabeth, and I have a younger brother, Grayson. So we're all super close. I come from a great family. Um, and then just a little bit that I enjoy. I enjoy music. So I play piano and organ. I actually teach piano. So I love anything to do with music, music theory. That's a big, big passion of mine. Hobbies, I love writing, I love reading, traveling when I get to. I wish I could do it more. But I just, I just I enjoy a variety of different things and a wide genre of different hobbies and passions. But yeah, that's a that's a little bit about me. And something fun. I am a recently converted matcha lover. Like used to think it tasted like grass, used to be like, no, it's just a trend. But then one of my friends was like, no, Madeline, you have to try ceremonial grade matcha. And so that's all I drink now. So I'm a huge matcha fan. So that's that's something fun. That's and that's more recent. So anyway, it will still happen, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yes, that's so cool. I love matcha. I'm so glad that you converted to it. I didn't like matcha at all either for like a while. And I would try it at Starbucks, and it's just not the same. But if you try like good ceremonial matcha, I'm glad your friend told you that. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yes, and it's funny because like the first matcha I tried was Starbucks. Nothing against Starbucks. I love Starbucks, yeah, but their matcha isn't it, so I was like, oh no, it tastes like grass. And then she was like, No. So right now I'm on there's a coffee, there's several coffee shops around me called Lala Land Cafe, and they have the best matcha lots. So far, I'm still on the hunt for another one, but yeah, yeah, I want to try Lala Land so bad.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

I went to one, they had one in Nashville and I went there, but it was so packed. I like it would have probably been like an hour wait. So we didn't stay, but I want to try. I've heard it's really good. But yes, I love matcha. If you ever a lot of the times, usually like the local coffee shops will have good matcha too as well. I love matcha. I had one today, but we have a little bit in common. I do love to travel as well. Like, I there's so many places I want to go. If I could travel all the time, that's so what I would do. But um, I love traveling. And you mentioned that you live in Dallas and um you have some siblings and you have a heart for music. So that's so awesome. I'm so excited to talk more about that in a second. But a little bit um earlier, you had told me that you are a PK and um that you have grown up in ministry and all of those things. So we definitely have that in common. I'm a PK as well um of a home missions church, and so I know all about that life. But tell us a little bit about your upbringing. Like what did family and ministry look like for you, and how do you think that it shaped you today?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah. So um growing up in ministry is something I would never change or something I don't regret because it's opened so many doors. It's taught me so many things. And I'm very fortunate and grateful for my parents because you know, them pastoring a church and doing ministry and then obviously having us kids, they brought us along the entire way. So it wasn't like we were over here to the side and my parents were doing ministry, or we were over here and they're pastoring the church. No, it was us doing ministry, it was us pastoring the church, and so so many things out of that has taught me so many valuable lessons. So growing up, you know, some PKs may be like, you know, it's it's harder, or you know, I don't feel called to this, or I don't. I we were different because we were taught to love ministry, and so we just grew up naturally loving ministry, doing ministry alongside our parents. And so so many things that I would never trade for anything growing up as a PK and living in a pastor's home. But I think a few things how it's shaped me um today is it really I was I was thinking about this earlier. I was like, so many things has contributed to me growing up in ministry. But I think seeing my parents exemplify a love for people. I think that has really stood out the most because you can't do ministry if you don't love people, right? And ministry for everyone looks a little different, right? It could be music or it could be pastoring a church, or but in my experience, obviously as a PK, it's pastoring a church, growing up in a family, growing up in a pastor's home, giving, giving, giving every week. But you it's it's hard to do that if you don't love people, right? And so I think it's given me a deeper love for people, um, a deeper a deeper level of understanding of people, of all different walks, all different physical and spiritual walks of life, and then just compassion to see for saved and unsaved people, right? And just a deeper, deeper longing to see more saved and be brought into the kingdom of God. And so that I contribute that to what I am now to growing up in a pastor's home and being a PK. But ministry has always just looked like serving alongside my parents, and then when we got to a certain age, it was them setting us up for our own callings and our own giftings and saying, Oh, we really see Madeline has a love for for music. Oh, let's get her plugged in here and she can start serving here. And then, you know, she at this point, you know, maybe one season it looked like serving in Sunday school and teaching Sunday school for two years, and then oh, another season it was maybe being a door greeter and being involved that way at a really young age and feeling really important because you're a door greeter. And that's important. That's every role, every role in ministry is important. It it plays into a bigger part of the whole picture, and so I'm I'm very grateful to my parents. I'm very grateful that I was um brought up in ministry and brought up to love ministry and to respect ministry, and so I I I owe a lot to that.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I know, like I I definitely feel the same way about I think that sometimes PKs and like just kid ministry kids in general, sometimes they do kind of like you mentioned, start to despise the call a little bit because maybe their, you know, mom and dad, like their attention is always on church or or maybe they're all they're always busy with church people or you know, they're doing stuff like that and we're always in church, that kind of thing. Like you mentioned, I was also taught to love it as well. So it doesn't come to me as a problem or a like I don't know what the word would be, but it's something that I genuinely enjoy doing now. Maybe I didn't years ago, maybe I kind of was in about it, but now I have a love for it, and I that's the best way I can explain like being your parents, being somebody that grows up in ministry, you really do have such a love for people that's so different because you see your parents carry it and how they love them, and it teaches you how to love them and why we even do this because we get caught up like in church and conferences and conventions and all these awesome things, and sometimes we can forget that we all we do this because we have a mission and we are supposed to love people, but I love everything you said, it already has been so great and definitely right like I'm right here with you. I I agree 100%. Um, what would you say have been some highs and lows for you growing up as a PK? And how would you maybe encourage a PK or just a ministry kid in general that might be listening today? And how would you relate that to us?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, so every I feel like everyone goes through some highs and some lows, and especially in ministry, because ministry is a lot of, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of giving out, giving out, pouring out, giving of time and talent and treasure week to week. And that's a constant thing, and it's so good, and that can be a lot, and so that's during a high, you're giving and giving and pouring out, and then you're seeing some rewards and stuff, and then you can hit one of those seasons of a low time, right? And then it's just like I'm still giving out, I'm still pouring out, and I'm still investing in others and serving the kingdom, but I I don't feel that high anymore. And so that can be a struggle, that can be a sacrifice sometimes, and so I think everyone that walks in ministry experiences that for me. I think one of the most notable lows um was probably in 2022. Um, my mom was unexpectedly uh diagnosed with a high stage of cancer, and it was very unexpected. We weren't expecting it at all. It came out of nowhere. Um, and the church was doing really good, and we were doing really good, and it just felt like we just entered like a season of just of everything just came to a sudden halt, just came to a sudden stop. And we were just like knocked on the side of the head, just like, where did this come from, God? And so you started asking questions, and you were just like, and why my mom of all people? You know, I look up to my mom and she's one of the most godly women I've ever known. And I'm like, why her? Why her of all people? And so it was just a really low season, and it was one that I had to ask a lot of questions in my own faith because I didn't understand certain things, and it brought up some questions I had never asked. And so that was a low, but in that, so many, it's just how God works because it's just how God works in a low time. So many God moments came out of it. And not just my mom's healing, which I'm so grateful for, and I thank God every day for, but also our church never, it just sparked a whole new revival in our church. It sparked a whole new revival in me personally as an individual in my own walk with God, just seeing all the the things that came out of it out of a really low time, seeing all these God moments of medical personnel coming to church and getting baptized in Jesus' name. And seeing my parents witness in the oncology rooms and seeing different, just different things like that really, really ignited a new flame in my faith. And so I think that's the beauty of some going through some highs and some lows. Because if we were on the mountain every single week, it would be it would it would be easy to take some things for granted. And I think we can. I think we can take church for granted, and I think we can take reading the Bible for granted, and I think we can take so many things for granted. But I think that's why we we have to go to the valley sometimes, is to realize the things we have on the mountain we should really appreciate a little bit more. And so that that was a valley time for us, but looking back on it now, it it it really grew me so much, it really grew um my family so much, it really grew our church so much. So that's the beauty of some highs and lows um of just going through going through life and just taking it not as a huge loss, but as but as lessons. You know, you learn from it. And so you so we really grew. I really grew a lot in that. And so that's kind of some highs and lows in my own life. But if I had to encourage any PK listening, you're not alone. Every, every person in ministry, every PK growing up in ministry, you're gonna, you're gonna come across some hard times, you're gonna come across some not easy things where you may feel a little bit ostracized or set apart, where you're like, oh, I'm you know, I'm I'm not like my friends, or they don't understand me because they haven't grown up in a pastor's home, or they don't they don't understand this because they haven't grown up around ministry. And so that's okay to feel those things. Those are normal because I trust you, trust me, you're you're not alone. Every PK has felt that at least once or is going to feel that way. Um but just to really really just seek after the things of God and seek after your own calling that God is calling you to, and just to follow the it's it's it's I promise you, God will reward it if you follow in the things of prayer, reading your Bible, serving where you're called to be, serving. And God will honor that. God will honor that. And yes, it kind of feels like you're alone sometimes, but it you're not, because there's so many like you that are going through the same thing, but also God sees right where you're at. He He doesn't He doesn't not not see you, and He's just seeing your parents pastoring. No, He sees you, and and I think the beauty of it is He's trusting your parents to do this kingdom work wherever they're called. For me, it's the Dallas area. For you, it's the Mississippi area. For everyone, it's it's a different area, but he's trusting your parents, but he's also trusting you because he he saw you and he sees you, and so he knows what your parents are doing, he knows what you're doing for the kingdom, and he knows right where you're at. So hopefully that encourages someone when they they think they may be alone, but trust me, you're you are not alone. He sees right where you're at, and so I I think that's really special.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yes, absolutely. You were talking about how God sees, you know, not just your parents doing his work, but you as well. It makes me think of I heard someone say one time, I don't know who it was, I can't remember, but they said, you know, whenever you when your parents are called to whether they're pastoring a church or they're evangelizing or they're missionaries, whatever it is, and they have children, the children are not necessarily called to the same thing that the parents are, but they are helping carry the burden while they're in that season. And so a lot of times I feel like we kind of we kind of make ourselves think that we are, you know, maybe we are called to the same thing that our parents are. That's not necessarily always true. I mean, maybe it could be in some scenarios, but that's not always true, but we are here to help. And like you mentioned, what a blessing that it is God would put us in this family or put us here in this church, in this city, whatever it is, to help carry a burden like that. It's such a blessing and a privilege that God would see fit for us to help at our local church or us to help be a PK and help serve. Because if you're a PK, you know you kind of have to do anything and everything at any time. Yes. What a blessing it is that God sees that and he thinks you are qualified to do that. So it really, it really is a blessing once you kind of like change your perspective because it can be tiring and it's very definitely weary. But I think that there, like you mentioned, there there will be so much reward for it, and God definitely sees that. You kind of talked about how sometimes you feel a little bit different than maybe other friends or um when you're growing up, whatever it is, because you're not necessarily at the same, you're not always at the same like level, and you're not always they don't understand things you don't understand, and it's just like this whole thing. Um, I don't want to put you on the spot or anything, but what would you say to maybe like a PK that kind of feels isolated because I feel like I've felt like that before growing up. Maybe I don't have a bunch of friends, or even if I do have friends, I feel distant from them because I just feel like we don't get the same things. And so what would you say to someone that maybe just feels isolated or lonely in whatever season they're in? And how would you just encourage them?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Be yourself because it's so tempting to be someone you're not when you don't feel connected or when you don't feel when you feel set apart, you want to become like someone else, and so I would say, and that's that's something you have to learn. I had to learn that be yourself, be confident in yourself, pray for confidence if you don't feel confident in yourself because there's no one like Jesus that understands more about being set apart because he walked the earth and his his own brothers didn't get him, his own community didn't didn't didn't really take him seriously, didn't didn't understand him. And so sometimes you just have to just almost like literally come to yourself and be like, who am I? Okay, my name's Madeline Gore. This is who I am, this is where I'm at in my walk with God. This is where I've been placed. This is where God's put me for this season of my life. And for this season of my life, I'm serving alongside my parents. And you know, I I don't I feel like I'm alone because I don't I don't have a lot of friends, or if I it's harder to make friends because they don't understand if they're not from from ministry or something. But really just be be comfortable in yourself. And like I said, if you're if you're not, then pray, pray for some, pray, pray that you have the confidence to be yourself because that's the most beautiful version that you could ever be is yourself. So that's that's what I would tell a PK that's feeling a little set apart, a little bit um um out of place and not kind of in the crowd. But it's beautiful to be original. There's something beautiful about being yourself and beautiful about being original, and not just following, searching for the right words, not just being a copy. And there's certain things that you can you can emulate that are beautiful, so there's something that you could see, and I'd be like, oh, I I wanna emulate that in my own life. That's not what I'm talking about, but it's just being like, if I'm not confident and confident in myself, and I just feel really lonely, I wanna, I wanna go and be something I'm not, and that's tempting sometimes. If we're just being real, that's tempting sometimes. But I think coming basically what I'm trying to say is basically be yourself. That's the real beautiful version that you could let me resay that that's the best version of yourself that you could ever be. And I think also surrounding yourself with community and like minded. People that whether and that looks a little different for everyone, but surround yourself. If you feel alone, surround yourself, start, start fellowshipping and start, start, don't it's easy to pull away when you feel alone. That's when you have to make yourself connect. And that's when you have to surround yourself with people who are like-minded, who will pray for you, who will check up on you and go go grab coffee with. Sometimes that looks like your parents. Sometimes that looks like your parents because they understand you. They understand because they they're they're serving right alongside with you. So sometimes that looks like if you have siblings, you're siblings for a season. Sometimes that just looks like your family. And then sometimes it it may look like people older than you and not your age group. You know, a lot of my friends, a lot, I have a lot of friends that are way older than me. A lot of girl friends that are a lot way older than me, and not necessarily my same age, but I have a lot of friends that are younger than me, right? So there's just so surround yourself, but every season it could look different, right? And so I think just if you're ever feeling those feelings of loneliness and disconnect, start connecting where you can. Start practicing just being yourself. And if you need confidence, pray, ask for those things because God knows the desires of our heart, He knows what we're going through. And so I would that's that's what I would say to PK who may be feeling those things.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

That is so good. When you were talking about find some, you know, whether it's your parents or whoever, friends, it is so important, I think, to do that because like you said, our when our flesh wants to isolate or like be lonely, we immediately just want to like go hermit. Like, I don't know, it's and and I really do think that it's a fleshly thing. And so we have to immediately do the opposite. If we if we feel in our heart that we're wanting to go be by ourselves or be alone, it's like we need to go do the opposite because we need to kill that whatever that desire is because it's desire more. And like you said, whether it's with friends, like find people, pray for friends. I think that has been such a big thing for me because I went through a lot of seasons of feeling lonely and not really having friends. And I went to public school, so whenever I would have friends, they weren't church friends, and that's even harder. And so that was a whole nother thing. But when you genuinely pray for friends, God will give you somebody that you need in your life, and it might not be somebody exactly your age in your same season, but like you said, sometimes it'll be somebody older or somebody younger, like he knows what you're and he he orchestrates all of that in such a beautiful way, and um I really do believe that he will help put people in your life that you're gonna need. I also wanted to say something that has been a big thing for me as well is you kind of mentioned this earlier, but you can't like run on empty because there we go through seasons where we do we are we do feel like we're on a high and we're like on fire and we're just pouring out. And then there's times where you feel like you're not really on fire anymore, and like you said, you're at a low and you still have to pour out, you can't stop. And so, and that can be really crucial, I think, to our spiritual lives if we don't get continuously filled up that we're still pouring out, because I always hear you can't pour out of an empty cup, and so like if you have something in your life that you can find, whether it's like going to more youth services around you or like going and visiting other churches with friends or like meeting with your mentor if you have a mentor, meeting with somebody that can pour into you. I think that's so important because I personally like even now, like every we don't have Sunday night service, but like every Sunday night I go to a neighbor a neighboring church in Potts Camp, the Bethlehem church in Potts Camp, and I go there like every Sunday night because that's my time that I'm getting poured into because I know that Monday through Sunday morning I'm gonna be pouring out in however way I need to. So I need to get filled up in some way, and that's been like such a blessing for me. And so I feel like if you feel like you're running on empty, God wants to pour into you. You just have to find like that avenue that He's going to use for you. But I think everything's so good.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

And sometimes, you know, we're we're growing up in a generation that I heard it recently that doesn't know rest. It's go, go, go, busy, busy, busy. It's from appointment to appointment, from event to event. And sometimes it's you really just need that that rest of you being poured into, of surrounding yourself with community that pours into you, or like you said, go into services that you're just in the in the pew, soaking up the word and the music, and you're just there to worship, and um, or just listening to a good podcast, reading a great book that pours into you, hearing from other voices. Um, like one thing that I enjoy, I love hearing interviews on a podcast or an audiobook or something of someone else's walk with God or someone else's experience in ministry or working for God, or maybe it's a missionary out in the field. Those stories are inspiring, and those stories build my faith. And so that's that's something you could do. And so I think it's it's important to have a balance of work because as PKs and just anyone in ministry, is like you said, it's that Monday through through Sunday, you're you're working, you're serving, you're giving of yourself, and sometimes it's a it's a sacrifice of your time and and treasure and talent week to week. And sometimes when you hit that low, you're still having to pour out, and that's even harder. But it's also the balance of it, it just hit me um the story of Martha and Mary. They both had Jesus in their home, and Martha's doing the work, she's serving, and Mary's sitting at the feet of Jesus, soaking up everything he's saying. And then Mary comes out and she's a little bit stressed from all the work and all the serving. And so she sees someone else resting. And it kind of it kind of strikes a chord with uh with Martha, and she's like, Lord, don't you don't you do you not care that I'm doing all the work and my sister's just sitting at your feet, just doing nothing? Right? And so he had to kind of calm her down a little bit and say, Martha, Martha, Martha. Mary has chosen a good thing, and I I'm not gonna take that away from her. But also I can I can kind of see Martha's side of it too, being like, okay, but she's she's doing all the work, she's doing all the heavy lifting, and she's what she's doing is important too. But I think it's a beautiful story of just having the balance of Mary and Martha because you have to put in the work, you have to serving's beautiful, but also there's a time for just sitting at his feet and resting in his word and just really finding the balance of work and worship. And so I think sometimes we have to we have to practice that because of the the way we're living now. It's so fast paced. You're going from one thing to the next, and that's kind of how we've trained ourselves to be. But sometimes you have to pull yourself in and be like, maybe I should take an extra, extra five minutes in prayer right now. Maybe I should just listen. Maybe I should just turn on some prayer music and just sit in quiet. Or maybe I should, like you said, go to go to a service just by myself and just soak it in. So I think that's an that's important to find that balance.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's definitely needed and it's going to help so much. Because when you're encouraged and you're lifted up and you're poured into, then you are ready to pour more into other people. So I do think that's so important. Everything you've said about that has been so, so good. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about you mentioned earlier to us that you play piano and organ and that you are involved in that as well. So I wanted you to tell us a little bit about that. How did that kind of come to be in your life? And how have you seen God to use you in this area recently?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yes. So I started, well, I don't know. I guess I come from a little bit of a musical family because my dad sings, my mom sings and plays piano by ear. Um, my sister sings, my younger brother sings. So I think we there's a little bit of that musical um in my family, but it really started when I was 10. Um, there was, I don't know, there was an there was a need in our church for piano players. And so I was like, oh, I would, I would love to, I'm interested in that. I would love to, I would love to do that. And like you mentioned, PKs, you know, you you feel the need wherever, you know, it could be Sunday school, it could be the platform, it could be a door greeter, it could be, you know, numerous things. And so let me restate that, a number of things. And so um, I was 10, and so I started taking lessons for piano. And so I took all the way up until I turned 12. And when I turned 12, put me on the platform, and so I was playing with our other main piano player at the time, and so that was kind of that experience of being on the platform, and I was just like that, that was a really big desire of mine. Um, and so it was that also that uh that kind of that training of not playing the main piano, but just being up there and being in worship ministry. Um, and then when I turned 13, our main piano uh player left. And so they were like, Derek, literally, I kid you not, Veronica. It was on a Sunday morning and I'm 13. It's Sunday morning, church is blowing up, altar happens, our piano player had to leave because they got sick. Well, no one else is there to play piano, and they're like, Madeline, can you play altar? And I was like, What? Oh my goodness, what I was like, okay, it was like it was like one moment of like I can't do this. On the other side, I can do this. This is I can do this, God help me, you know. And so that's literally where it started. Altar call. I was thrown up there, it went great. I played the one song I knew that was fast tempo, and somehow it went great. And then I literally the next week was carrying full services. So from a from a young age, that's where I got involved in worship ministry and playing piano and services and being a band director. But yeah, I I loved it and I fell in love with it. It's hard to do something if you don't love it, right? It would be hard for me to teach piano if I didn't like it, if I didn't love it. It's easy for me because I I I really do love music. I really love the instrument that I play. So I did fall in love with it, which I'm so I just I kind of I kind of nerd out on it because I just love anything, music, music theory, but also being able to use that for the kingdom is just really, is really special for me. And so yeah, now I um one of the band directors at my church. And so I lead the band week to week. And I just I just love being used in that area. So that's that's kind of that's kind of where I'm at in my musical journey right now. And I've been able to travel and use that gift to play for different events and go out of state to do it, and so that's a lot of doors and opportunities have opened through that gift, and I'm so thankful for those experiences.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

That is so awesome. I love the story of how that happened, but I think it's so cool how you said that you were learning it, and it's like God just knew what he was doing because he knew that you were gonna be learning, and then he was gonna have to just throw you. Yes, yes, that's so funny, but so real. I don't even know like what I would do. I would have died.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Literally, in in the moment, I was so nervous. It was like I wanted to be sick, I wanted to feel nervous, I wanted to feel sick, but then I was like, no, I have to do it. Like, I have to step up because there's no one in that moment that could. I was like, and then I was like, obviously, I wanted to get to a place where I could play, you know, for services. I was like, God help me, this is my chance. I can I can do this. So it was kind of like both thoughts going up the stairs. Yeah, it was like a line.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

That's so funny, that's so cool though. I love that. So you said that you um teach as well. That's so awesome. I love and that's definitely a gift because a lot of people don't love what they play or they don't love what they what they're doing, but it's a gift, and I think it's a blessing if you love it as well. Um, I had asked you a little bit about a soapbox, and you mentioned this and talked about um that you were very passionate about anointed excellence. So I want you to talk just a little bit about that, and w how would you describe it in your own words? How would you relay how important it is and um why is it important in our churches as well?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Mm-hmm. So anointed excellence is one of the best phrases I've ever heard. And I first heard it and some of my worship directors used it, and they used it as saying, you know, sometimes church music can um some sometimes it can get thrown off on because sometimes it's like, oh, it's just church music. Oh, it's just oh yeah, it's just that one song. We'll do it as best as we can. No, we're we're called to be to also not only be anointed, but to do it in excellence. One of my favorite scriptures is Psalm 20, uh Psalm 33, verse 3. It says, Sing unto him a new song and play skillfully with a loud noise. So we're not called to just you know be anointed and not practice. You know, we have to have both. So I think anointed excellence is also being, let me re-say that anointed excellence is having the balance between prayer and practice, being prepared, but also being able to flow in the Holy Ghost and being sensitive to that. And so sometimes we can be as musicians, we can focus so much on just practicing the songs for Sunday or just preparing for this new song for this special service, or get caught up in that that we forget it's nothing if we don't operate in the spirit and we're not sensitive to the move that God wants to do because music is so powerful that it can make or break a service, it can make or break a message, it can make or break uh what the the messenger is trying to convey to the people. And so music's so powerful. I mean, it wouldn't be mentioned over 400 times in the Bible if it wasn't, right? And so I think it's important to have anointed excellence where you're praying, but you're also preparing and you're also being open to a move that may look different than what you practiced. I mean, we could, you know, in if um we're practicing for four songs for this certain service, you know, but if you get in the moment and you know, the worship is coming down or it's it's going up, and we need to go into a shout or we need to bring it down and go into a more prayerful, you have to be open to that. And that's that's that's all in flowing and being sensitive to the Holy Ghost. And so I love, I love that that term, anointed excellence. And I think it's so needed in the church today because like I said, sometimes it can just be if you're doing it week to week, it can get monotonous, right? Oh, it's just Sunday we don't really have to practice. No, no, just because it's church doesn't mean it doesn't need to be your best. We need to bring our best for him, right? And so, and I love that scripture going back to that scripture, sing unto him a new song. To me, that translate, okay, learn new songs, keep up with learn new songs, bring new songs to the people. Okay, play skillfully, okay. Put in the word, put in the practice, prepare, don't come to service not prepared and you don't know your stuff, right? With a loud noise, play skillfully with a loud noise, loud noise, just play confidently, yeah, play confidently, play it with a loud noise. And so I recently was talking to one of my students, and I'm so blessed because I've been able to teach pastors' wives and home missions churches piano and church piano players that are just starting out and needed a little extra help and confidence boost. And so I was talking to one of my students, and they were saying, I just feel like my best is not enough. I can't, I'm not, I don't, I don't feel confident in myself as a piano player. And so I told them, I said, everyone's best looks a little different, right? Everyone's best looks a little different and you and it's easy to compare. But if it's truly your best and you're praying and you're practicing, then God will honor that. Because that's all we can do is bring our best to him. And if we're not, that's where I think it falls a little short, where we we need to be bringing our best for him. We need to be, I mean, that's that's something I'm very passionate about. If you're serving in the kingdom of God, do anything with all your might, do anything with excellence, and God will honor that. And I think that's that's such a beautiful concept when you can marry the two of being anointed, but also working and being prepared. And so that's where that term anointed excellence comes in. And so we've we've used it in our music department for a while now, that term. And so it just it's just also it's a reminder of you can't have the excellence without the anointing. I've been in a room where, um, and we're just talking about music here, but I've been in a room where the talent was out of let me resay that the talent was so on fire, the talent was so high, but there wasn't really a move. You didn't really feel anything because there wasn't any room and sensitivity for the spirit to move in. But I've also been in settings where, yeah, the music wasn't probably that good. The singer probably missed a note here or there, the musician probably missed a key right there or a chord. Um but it was a powerful move of the Holy Ghost, and you felt God when you went into that room because the difference is one was relying all on talent, all on knowledge. And I'm speaking to myself as a musician. Sometimes you come into a practice or something and you're just relying on that talent or that knowledge, and you haven't really prayed for the service, or you haven't really prepared spiritually like you have musically. But the difference is one was relying all on talent, all on knowledge. The other was bringing their best, but also being sensitive and flowing in the Holy Ghost. And I think that's that's where a move of God can be facilitated, and that's that's powerful, and you can feel the difference.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree with everything you said. I think it's so important. It reminds me of the scripture in the Bible says, whatever my hand finds to do, do it with all my I think I misquoted it, but I think about that all the time and that not even just like in things you do at church, but just in everything. Like I think about that in my everyday life and work and everything. I don't want to do anything halfway. I want to do it with all my might. And I find myself thinking that to myself at church whenever I have to. lead worship or whatever it is that I'm doing, I want to make sure that I'm doing it with all my might because like you said, he deserves the best. Like we might not be the greatest at some things. We might not have all our decks in our rows sometimes. But as long as we're giving him the best that we possibly can, that's what he deserves. And that is so true. Everything you said about I love I never heard the term anointed excellence, but I love how you explain it and I love everything that you've said because I've always we've always known like we need the anointing like if there's not gonna be there's not going to be a service if there's not the anointing. It's not we want him to be here. But yes we are also especially now like in the apostolic world like we're so blessed with some of the greatest musicians like and music it's like crazy. Like they're so good and it's because they really are like praying and all these things and they have the anointing but they're also putting in the work because faith without works is dead so if you're constantly relying on the faith but you're not putting in the work or you're not going to practice or you're not putting in those hours that people don't see then they they're not going to see it in the public either. But when you are able to have both of those like you said it really is incredible and God and God definitely blesses it.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

And I'm so glad you mentioned all the all the apostolic singers and all the apostolic musicians that we have we are so blessed. I 100% agree with you on that and it's so cool to see songs being written about the oneness and songs being written about Jesus' name baptism and the filling of the Holy Ghost and that's that's a witnessing tool you know sometimes music is the first thing a guest will hear when they come to church. It's kind of like the first face they see is a door greeter you know so that's the importance of having those ministries and so music sometimes you know it's easier for someone straight out of the world to sit through music than a message right but music is so powerful that it conveys so many emotions so many messages I mean music is so powerful it can make you feel sad one moment, joyful another it can make you tear up it can make you smile it can make you laugh um and so that's a that's a witnessing tool as well when people are sitting and they're hearing songs about the the oneness or anything that I just mentioned and they're they're hearing people and seeing people sing it like they believe it. That's powerful and there's nothing like you know a song that's a good song but when it gets sung by anointed singers and when it gets played by anointed musicians it takes that song to another level. And that's when people really lives are changed. A life can be changed in one song just like a life could be changed in one message. So that's the that's the power that music has and I think it's it's it's beautiful how God puts importance on let me restate that how God puts so much on music so much importance on music that it's it's it really is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah that's so true because it's really not just a song when we go to church and we hear it's creating an atmosphere for the word that's about to go forth and for God's about to speak to you and and like even altar call it's creating the atmosphere for people to come and lay down things at the altar and repent and all these things. It's like it has such a heavy load to carry but whenever you're intentional and God is especially when God has given you a gift like don't let that fall short just walk in it. And I love what you said about kind of flowing and all of that during service. Sometimes people don't they're not walking in the spirit so they don't know what to do next or like if they should sing that again or if they should end it. But when you really are walking in the spirit I think the Lord helps guide all of that in the way that he wants the service to go and it's such a it does become such a blessing. I wanted to ask you if you were to give any advice to a young music leader or young musician that might be listening today what would you say and why I would say if you haven't already try to find that balance of where you're praying you're reading your Bible but you're also practicing and preparing because if you get out of balance and you're you need a balance in both for that anointed excellence.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

And sometimes that's hard to find because sometimes you practice and for everyone it looks a little different but sometimes speaking of you know my own experience sometimes I would I would just practice and prepare and then I would get up to it and then I would remember to pray. Right. And then I kind of would get a little convicted because I'd be like oh because I'd be in prayer and this happened to me several years ago it was right before one of probably a big event that I was playing for it was probably one of the first big events I was playing playing for and I had practiced practiced practiced put in in hours of practice and preparation and then I got up to a couple weeks before and then I kind of was in prayer and I was like God help me just give me the confidence let everything go smoothly and then I literally heard um and I'm paraphrasing but the scripture of look up into where your help comes from and it just convicted me because I was like my goodness I'm I'm out of balance here. I've been preparing and practicing and leaning on my own my own knowledge and my own gifts my own talents and I haven't been praying as much as I needed to in preparation for this event. And so it was just a really loud reminder of I need to constantly remind myself to pray and prepare. And so I that would be the advice I would give to any music leader or musician right now but also know your stuff. Put in the work put in the practice because if you're a music leader and you're unsure well everyone you're leading is going to be unsure. And so know your stuff come prepared because it's easier to it's easier to facilitate a move of God if if you know your stuff and you're prepared because then you can then it really gives you the freedom to worship. Because if you're so into your chord chart or so into your lyrics or so because you're about to forget a lyric or and that happens that we're humans right there's some songs where it's a hard song you have to look at the back screen for the words or you have to your eyes are glued to your your laptop or iPad looking for the next chord but if you it really does free you up if you know your stuff then you have the freedom to worship. And not you know it's some I've even heard this saying you know how do you worship you don't leave the platform during altar call you're not getting poured in no that's where you worship from I I have gotten so many touches while I'm on the piano I've so many singers I've seen have gotten touched while they're singing that's how musicians worship that's how singers worship and that's also that's when a move of God is so powerful when people out in the audience are getting a touch and they're praying but they're also seeing the singers and the musicians on the platform who are leading them in worship who are leading them in praise also receiving the same blessings of the service. And so that's I I'm a strong believer in you can worship from an instrument you can worship behind a microphone. I'm a strong believer in that so that's that's what I would any advice let me rephrase that that's the advice I would give to any musician any singer anyone in music ministry is to find that balance of prayer and practice but also be prepared enough that you can worship freely and I think that's where a lot of blessings come from yes amen that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Everything you've said has been so great. I think that it's very encouraging as well when you're able to hear other people talk about that and and share their insight on it because we can easily look at it as a burden and we're always doing it or we're always you know pouring and we're always at practice or or putting in the work but it really is rewarding and I believe that it's what God intended. I always ask this question to every person I have on the podcast and it's kind of a general question but it's just what's a general piece of advice that you would leave with any young person that's listening today. And the best way I like to explain this is if you like had something that you wanted to say to your younger self, what would you say and how would you relay it to someone listening today?

SPEAKER_00 53:52

So I'm in my 20s still on the younger side of the 20s I'm only 21 I'll be 22 this year. And so I think when you get into your 20s it was like when I turned 20 it was kind of like a um it was like I don't know how to put it in words but it was like I'm kind of on the clock now right because so many big decisions are made in your 20s you're tempted to think that your 20s and 30s you're like we're we're gonna make some big decisions in the next couple of years or you know we may we may find a we may be in a big relationship of our life in a couple years or we may be this it's like all those big things and it really kind of hit me and was like ooh like you really okay God like give me direction I need some clarity you know and so I've I've heard that so much from my friends too that are around that same age or in their 20s are a little older or a little younger and they're like like I I don't feel like I have it all figured out right now. Like I I need some clarity I need some direction or or some friends they feel really lost right now in that season because they don't they don't uh they don't know what the next step is or they and that can be fearful sometimes. And so I would tell any young person and I'm speaking to myself God knows the next step for you. God sees the next 10 steps the next 20 steps and he's got it all figured out you can lay it to rest in his hands he's got it he's got you and so I would also tell my younger self probably don't be so hard on yourself. That's what I would tell my younger self. Don't be so hard on yourself. Don't think you have to have the next 20 years figured out step by step. And I'm very goal oriented. I love having goals for myself and I think that's healthy. I think I think you should have stuff that you work towards but sometimes that also can kind of go into a little bit of a perfectionist um mindset too of like I didn't reach that goal at that timeframe that I had set or I didn't you know give yourself a little bit of grace give yourself some some mercy in those seasons because some seasons are just you trying to figure it out and so I would say stay close to God stay close to your man of God and if you're a PK that's your parents so stay stay close to your parents and your family and your community that you feel safe in and that that um pours into you um equally as you pour into them and have them pray for you as you you pray for them. It's a two-way thing but also know hey it's okay if you don't reach that goal at that that certain time that you had set or it's okay if you didn't accomplish that goal at that age or let's say you you've entered your 20s and you still don't have it all figured out it's okay God's got you God knows where you're at he's not surprised that you don't you don't have a plan at 20 or 21 or 22 or whatever your age is and then also one of my favorite scriptures and is in Jeremiah 29 and 11 and I'm gonna read it off here so I can say it exactly but it's for I know the thoughts that I think toward you saith the Lord thoughts of peace and not of evil to give you an expected end. So he already knows the end. He already knows your future and I think that's so that's been such an encouraging piece of scripture for me because sometimes when I'm maybe tempted to fear a little bit of the future or to think of I thought I would be at this place at this time in my life or I thought I would reach these goals at this age or I thought you know such such and you know I've done so many things that I didn't think I would do by a certain age and I'm like oh well that's that's great. Now I want to do these such and things and it can be a lot sometimes but if I love to think back on this earth for I know the thoughts that I think toward you so he's thinking thoughts toward us thoughts of peace. So not of anxiousness not of worry not of not any stressful thoughts but of peace and sometimes that peace we don't understand it. It's a peace that passes all understanding right we don't get it sometimes we're just like you know over here like thinking about the future and he's like I got you right he's thinking thoughts of peace not of evil good thoughts good thoughts and to give you an expected end so I think that's so encouraging and so I would tell any other young person in that that may be thinking those things he's got us he's got the next step he's got the next 10 and so also I've heard my brother I heard my brother Landon say this and I really took it to heart because it was in a probably a season of restlessness. I was doing a lot of the same things and I'm sure someone else has been in this season too but you're doing the same thing in ministry that you've done for years and you're just you're you're ready for something new something fresh. And that could be in your own walk with God that could be in your ministry that could be in your that could just be in your life in general you know whatever it applies to you as well it was probably in a season of restlessness and I'm not saying it word for word but he was speaking at a hyphen retreat and he was saying you know sometimes when we get into our 20s and 30s and we don't have it all figured out it's it's kind of scary. It's kind of we we don't have clarity and we we need direction and sometimes we you know we're praying but we're not we're not hearing anything about our future we're not really getting clarity on the next step for our life and so he said it's it's hard to move a part car right it's hard to it's hard to move a car that's not moving right it's it's hard to direct a car that's just not going anywhere. It's easier to redirect a car that's moving. So keep moving keep doing ministry and what you're called to do keep following the uh seeking after the things of God and he can redirect you very easily because you're you're already moving towards towards closer to him closer to your man of God closer in your walk individual walk with God and so it would it's very easy for him to redirect you and be like Madeline in this season I'm gonna place you here it would be harder if it was she's not doing anything at all he's not doing anything at all that would be a harder harder thing I hope that makes sense of how I'm saying it but it's easier as long as you're moving this is what I'm trying to get at as long as you're moving you don't have to worry because God can if he needs to he can redirect you he can close this door and open this door he can close that door and open that door but he can't do that if you're not moving. So I think just to rest in him know that he's got you continue following after the things of him continue to walk in your calling that God has for you and he will take care of the rest because he knows where you're at that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

I feel like I don't know who was for I feel like that word was for me. I'm about to turn 20 next month so it's like are you serious? He had perfect timing he has but that was so good. Everything you said is so good. I've never had anybody say that before on the podcast um about that and so I really really appreciate you saying that and and I appreciate you mentioning like the people in their 20s because I've always I always tell this podcast I always tell people that I've I when I like started this I've always been very burdened by like young people like youth and like I'm I mean I'm a home mission speed so I'm kind of the youth leader. Always kind of been like that for me but they so they usually always speak to like the younger people which I know this was for everybody but I love how you mentioned even if you're in your 20s like I all of my pretty much all of my friends are older than me a little bit like in their um early 20s mid twenties and we're all it's so funny because we're all in such different seasons of life like some of them are having babies some of them are some of them are completely single like just living their best life and it's on a different stage but we all connect in such a good way and half of us just don't know what we're doing. So it's like it's just an encouraging thing because it's like you know um we're not forgotten. Like we know that we're not forgotten but sometimes we feel like we are because we had like you said goals and they haven't happened and it makes us feel odd but the Lord does know what he's doing and um the scripture that you quoted Jeremiah 2911 all of that like that is always such a reminder to me that he he knows what he's doing I just have to let him because I am like a control like control freak. So I'm ready to like take the handles I'm like I can do it okay I can't I can't do it because if I try to do it it totally messes up so we just have to let him steer the boat even if we don't really like where it's going at the moment but I love everything you said. Everything you've said today has been so great. And I just want to say thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for taking the time to come on. I know we've been on here for a minute and I don't want to take any more of your time but I I truly believe that this is going to bless someone I really do. And I just want to say thank you um for your time again it's been so awesome talking to you and you truly are so kind and so like full of wisdom. I know you're only 21 but I feel like you're like you're just like so smart.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

I really appreciate you and everything you brought to the podcast. I thank you so much again Veronica for for giving me the opportunity to be um on the podcast and that's been my prayer that this this conversation would encourage maybe it's a PK maybe it's a musician maybe it's a music leader maybe it's someone not in ministry at all but is a friend of someone who's in ministry or maybe it's a pastor's wife maybe whoever it is whoever it is listening I pray that it encourages them. So thank you again it's been a really special talking with you