The OSMARI Project

Male Ballet Dancer Aesthetics - The OSMARI Project

• OSMARI • Episode 2

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Have you ever pirouetted from one passion to another, discovering where your true talent lies? That's the story of Nick, our esteemed guest from Puerto Rico, whose transformative leap from tap to ballet unveils the resilience and grace behind the world of dance. With Nick's vivid anecdotes, we journey through the misconceptions and physical prowess required in ballet, exploring gender expectations and the humor that eases the demanding life of a professional dancer. His tale is a masterclass in adaptability and dedication, providing insights into the art that transcends stereotypes and evolves with time.

Imagine the strength it takes to lift a partner gracefully on stage, or the finesse required to customize a pointe shoe for the perfect fit—these are the daily rituals of a ballet dancer that often go unnoticed. In our chat, Nick peels back the curtain on the workout regimens tailored for male ballet dancers, the misunderstood aspects of weightlifting for women, and the sartorial nuances that define a dancer's individual style. From the serious to the lighthearted, this episode promises a rich tapestry of stories that showcase the rigorous yet rewarding lifestyle of those who live to dance.

Before we part ways in a grand jeté, we pause to express our sincere appreciation for Nick's openness and the wealth of knowledge he has imparted. His journey serves as a reminder of the beauty found in challenging norms and embracing the unique qualities that each dancer brings to the stage. Keep your toes pointed for more such enlightening conversations, and remember to subscribe and share your thoughts with us as we continue to pirouette through the fascinating realms of dance and creativity on the OSMARI Project.


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Arian:

All right, hey, everybody, welcome to the Esmeralda Project, episode 2. And today I have Nick, who is a ballet dancer in Puerto Rico. So, Nick, please introduce yourself.

Nick:

Hey guys, I'm Nick. I'm a professional ballet dancer with the Ballet Concerto of Puerto Rico.

Arian:

Oh great. So tell us a little bit about why Puerto Rico, what brought you there, and kind of give us a little summary as to your experiences as becoming a ballet dancer. Now who is in Puerto Rico?

Nick:

Thank you, so great question. I was looking for a job in the States, actually the ballet. You know, job market is a very, very difficult one. There's not many jobs to go around and there's a lot of dancers looking for jobs, and it was. I had some small success in the States, but at some point my mentor told me hey, you know what? I have this company in Puerto Rico that they need dead, they need guys, they need dancers. You could go down there and they'll give you a job and it'll work out. And that's exactly what I did. And how long have you been?

Arian:

dancing.

Nick:

I've been dancing for basically all my life, since I started dancing when I was 10. I started tap dancing from ages 10. I did a lot more when I was 12, basically at age 14. And then I changed over to ballet. I started taking ballet very slowly at age 14. At age 16, I started training full-time professionally, which is pretty late for a ballet dancer.

Arian:

And so the interesting from it's kind of interesting from tap dancer to ballet, and you know they're two completely different animals. So I mean, they're in the dance world of course, but they're two completely different animals in the sense as to the performance, the choreography, the shoes, so on and so forth. So I would imagine and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this that in tap dancing you don't require as much flexibility as you would in ballet.

Nick:

Not at all, not at all. So I love tap dancing. It has a very special place in my heart and it does require some flexibility. For sure, I started my cast given the way. But that said, I think there is actually no style of dance, other than if you maybe would consider forms of gymnastics like. I think those can require some amount of flexibility, but when it comes to dance, I think there is no style of dance in repartage quite as much flexibility as ballet.

Arian:

So I would imagine that it's a bit difficult to get the flexibility that's required for ballet and transitioning from tap dancing. So can you kind of describe the process that you went through in order to gain that required and extreme flexibility that's required in ballet?

Nick:

It's a lot of training and a lot of stretching and some people have it a bit easier. Right, they started age a lot of girls, ballerinas, started age four, age five. The bones are still soft at that point. You know, when you're so young the growth plates are not fused. The muscles are much as much as you stretch them and you carry that flexibility. When you build it that young, you carry it into adulthood. I didn't have that luxury and I'm also a man with much. Typically men have more closed hips than women, so it was a lot of training. It was a lot of training and a lot of stretching every single night. You know the sun goes down. I got school the next day but I stay up for 30 hours, 30 minutes to an hour, just stretching and you know sweating and suffering it's part of it.

Arian:

And. I guess the question is how much stretching how long, and are there a variety of special techniques for stretching? I mean, I know that you can stretch in every sort of possible direction and even to the point where you would possibly exceed what would be considered splits. So can you kind of describe that a little bit?

Nick:

There's. You have to be very careful because I'm not going to get in the way again. We have more, we have more, we have more. Okay, um, it's tricky because you have to be very careful if you want to build it effectively and quickly. People oftentimes say oh, if you look on YouTube, how do you split fast? You'll find how to get your splits in a day.

Nick:

And it doesn't look that way. It's a physiological change in the muscles. So, ballet dancers, we do a lot of static stretching and we do a lot of dynamic stretching, but mostly static stretching. So we take, we take each muscle group individually and we target them to certain exercises. For example, if I want to do what's called a punch, a punch is where you're standing on one foot and you're in a split in the air. Um, if I need to do that, well then I got to stretch the hamstrings, I got to stretch the hip flexor, I got to stretch the hip bones themselves. Like, I have to get all of that. So there's a. There's a list of different stretches that you do to achieve splits, to achieve oversplits. Um, I have stretching equipment. There's like several types of stretching equipment. I use blocks, I use rollers to prop up my feet, or even foot stretchers, to you know, put down the foot like that.

Nick:

So it's. It's a lot of very intense and very intricate training to get to such a refined point. No that's.

Arian:

That's very good to know. And, um, no, I, I, I think I mentioned this to you before, like a long time ago. I, I I'm not sure if I even mentioned this to you I did martial arts when I was younger, um, and up until I was maybe 12 or 13.

Arian:

Um, but you know, it took a long time to be able to do the splits and and being able to stand up from standing up, going into a backpump, going into a backbridge, and I, I mean, you know, I trained trained a lot for for that and was able to do it, but then I stopped, uh, taekwondo, and then years later I mean this, I think I'm approaching 25 years or no, almost 30 years since I stopped doing Taekwondo, um, and all of that flexibility is gone, um, and one of the things I'm trying to do is I want to start getting it back, because I believe, once you've had it and I think that's like sort of the that age where you know to test out to see if you can get it back as easily, as easy, as you got it the first time Um, I may be able to do it, but it's going to take a little bit longer, since now my hips are even more more closed as as as you could say.

Arian:

So, uh, one of the. In the last episode of the podcast I was talking with a guy, andrew, and uh, he's, he's into bodybuilding and physique and, um, uh, we were talking about what he calls the sus machine, which is the hip, hip, hip, hip doctor machine in the gym. He called it.

Nick:

He calls it the sus machine.

Arian:

And the reason why I bring that up is because when I'm working out with my friend Bruce, you know he's able to, um, from a starting position, uh start in a wider, uh, wider sort of split sort of stance on that machine, as opposed to me, where I, where I'm a little bit tighter, so I have to uh gain that flexibility to extend my hip capabilities a bit wider, Uh, but. But that's that's kind of the reason why I bring that up. And going back to you, you mentioned, uh, you know, the difference between men and women. So, uh, I know it's, it's very, very competitive for women, Um, but how competitive is it for men, Um, and would you consider it as competitive?

Nick:

That's a great question In today's day and age. It is very competitive for men. It's also it's very different from men for a couple of reasons, but it is very competitive for men. I would still not say that it is as competitive for men as it is for women, because it's straight up supply and demand. You know, there there are just so many more women who want to be ballerinas, similar to you know, in football there's so many more men who want to be football players.

Nick:

It's just, it's a subtle thing that said 30 years ago, if you could do a double tour, if you could jump in the air and rotate twice, if you could do three turns, three pirouettes, and you could partner well and you could, you could dance with a girl Well, you could get a job, you could get a professional job because there were no men in the industry. It's not the case anymore. There's a lot of guys in the industry now not as many as the woman, but there's a lot. So as a guy now you have to be able to do everything that men can do and you have to be able to do everything the woman can do as well, Like you have to be able to do everything. It's gotten so, so competitive. Still, though, still, it is more competitive for the woman just because there are so many of them.

Arian:

Is the? Is the converse the same? You mentioned that you have to be able to do everything that the women can do. Can should the women be able to do what the men can do? I kind of want to understand that difference as well.

Nick:

That's a very interesting question. So in the ballet we have men's technique and women's technique. The women's technique think about it more like in a very oversimplified general way Think flexibility, think, think feet, think pirouettes, think extensions. You know, for men you have all of that, but you also need to be able to lift the woman. You need to be able to partner the woman effectively. If you're lucky, you're tall. You need to have big bomb plastic jumps. You need to do these crazy tricks.

Nick:

There's a whole different branch of men's ballet that doesn't exist for women's ballet. So I think a very intricate side of being a man in ballet is you need to branch into the woman. You need to be able to do everything they can do and you must do all of everything the men can do. The women don't need to know how to partner a man. They don't need a double tour, they don't need a double cabriolade, they don't need a 540. They don't need to do a full man. It's different. It's it's different. So that is something that's challenging about being a man. But even then, being a woman in ballet is so challenging that I would still say that it is more challenging to be a woman.

Arian:

Oh, yeah, oh, absolutely, and, I think, a long time. In our last meeting I mentioned that a long time ago, my mom's family lived in Russia for like four and a half, five years and while they're my, my grandfather apparently got a job there and when they were there, my aunt did ballet in Russia and my mother did gymnastics in Russia. Now, considering that both of my parents are from Afghanistan, you would imagine that they didn't have any of that stuff in in in that country. But you know I spoke to my mother about this that my grandfather was kind of was extremely educated and open minded and and allowed his parents to do the same and allowed his daughters to participate in these sports. However, when they left Russia and went back to Afghanistan, they couldn't continue it because there was no training whatsoever there.

Arian:

And I I kind of want to bring up the point, because you've been studying ballet for a while and it seems like, based on your TikTok, that you've been following ballet history for quite a while and I, I, I and not the first of all I enjoy stereotypes, which, which, which are fantastic. I think there's some of those stereotype. Jokes are hilarious, because I don't easily get offended, but I kind of want to hear your point of view as to how stereotypes of ballet have changed from the 60s and 70s into modern day ballet.

Nick:

That's a great question. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of ballet stereotypes. I feel like it's one of the most stereotyped activities or you know, cultural things in existence in my opinion, because it's so complicated and it's not really in the mainstream as much as it once was and what I'd say there's. There's some serious, very like dark stereotypes and there's some very funny stereotypes as well, so dark ones would be. I think something that's gotten a lot better was like the stereotype for dancers is we don't eat. That's like. A stereotype is like my all of my meals must be salads and protein shakes because I can't eat to be a dancer and frankly, that is something that's taught. You know, I've had teachers tell me that, like Nick, suck in your gut, like what are you doing? I don't have much to gut in the first place, but like they will still, they will still tell you that right, and it drives a lot of people, women especially into eating disorders and disorder eating so bad that it will kill ballerinas in a lot of cases and that I think is horrific. But something I'm glad about is that it has gotten better over time. If you see older teachers nowadays, you'll and you like see younger teachers and you study under both older and younger teachers, you'll see a difference in how the older teachers expect the bodies to be and how the younger teachers kind of accept more body types. Because the truth of the matter is that there are a lot of body types that provide a lot of value to ballet and they don't need to be all super skinny and starving. So I would say that something gets improved and it definitely is a stereotype.

Nick:

And I'm not saying that, you know, eat bad. As a dancer, like I always say, like, of course, eat well, feel your body well. But, for example, I made a TikTok the other day about what I ate in a day. Someone asked me. So what I did for breakfast was like four eggs of banana. I made protein pancakes yeah, pancakes.

Nick:

I cock full of proteins, I have protein powder and so, like I was still like fueling my body with, you know, with some pretty heavy stuff. It wasn't like you know, greasy fats and stuff, right, but the comments still, even with those things that I take to fuel my body, the comments were like this is not how I expected you to eat, like what on earth? Because the idea was you know, I eat kale and you know green protein shakes for all on meals and that for some people that works. It doesn't work for everyone. Everyone's different, so I think that's something that's gotten better. So that's one of the darker stereotypes. Some of the funnier stereotypes I think are, I mean among women how ballerinas, you know, treat the point shoes and ballerina beat them up. You might see videos of professional dancers just like Beating the crap out of their point shoes. That's not really necessary. You don't need to take a hammer to your point shoes, you don't need to throw them down the stairs.

Arian:

But it is a lot of stairs.

Nick:

Yes, they just tearing up like there is. There's a lot of stuff you need to do to your point shoes to make them good and everyone has different feet. The point shoes are not exactly made for your feet, so you got to fit them to your feet. You know, got to break the shank. Maybe you cut the shank, which the shank is the arch part. Maybe you break that. You cut it, you darn them, which means you take the, the box of the shoe and you put thread around it. It'll make it more stable in the base. You do a lot of things there.

Nick:

I think there are two funny stereotypes for the men. One of them is like the hyper masculine, like Chad, who you know big, hairy chest, six foot three, is like talking to all the girls, and the other one is like the super, super gay guy who's just super effeminate and very pretty, and I think those are two very funny stereotypes Because there are guys on both sides of that. You will find all those guys. We also find guys in between who you know are not super masculine, not super feminine, so good guys are bisexual who, like don't get a lot of viewing because either, oh, you're like super macho or you're super gay, like it's either one of the other, but I find those stereotypes be quite funny, in my opinion.

Arian:

No, that's, that's awesome and that's kind of what I was trying to get at because and We'll get back to I have something about the point shoes and we'll get back to that because it kind of relates to what we talked about earlier. But yeah, I believe that you know the, the stereotypes from the hyper masculine Chad and the very effeminate Gay guy. You know, they think it's just those two separate things and nothing in between. And I and I came across one ballet dancer I forgot what his name was, but he's married. He, he lives somewhere in Florida, I think. I'm not sure he's married, but he's very effeminate. You know, he has very effeminate manualism and and.

Arian:

I, I can imagine, because I had my own sort of judgments oh, this guy is gay or whatever, but no, he's married, you know, he's happy and Very loving to his wife and, you know, shares that relationship on social media, which is, which is great. So I think when it, when it comes to stereotypes, it's it's just hilarious. And, and one of the things that you know, you mentioned just now the point shoes. I Think I saw a tick tock where you were actually talking about men wearing point shoes and how?

Arian:

yes how you would like to see more of that, because in Typical ballet, because I noticed that when I, when I have seen ballet, that men do not wear the point shoes typically you know they're there on the balls of their feet and toes, but not necessarily in that point aspect of it. So so describe what you meant in more detail about seeing men in point shoes and and and how would you see that sort of Incorporate in men's ballet, if possible?

Nick:

Great question. So there's a lot of discourse on on men on point, or why men don't go on point, and people I see people come up with Crazy answers oh, it's because men, just like their bodies are too heavy to go on point. It's because their feet are just like they're genetically not flexible enough in men, like it's not possible, they can't do it. It's because, oh, this is because, oh that. None of that's true. Men absolutely can go on point and you'll find that a lot of their really good professionals do practice on point like a lot, for a lot of good reasons. Point work is very good for strengthening the ankles when it's done correctly. And if you want to be a teacher, you think about this. If you want to be a teacher in ballet, who are you gonna be teaching? As a man, you're gonna be teaching women, because there's so many more women than men in ballet. If I want to be an effective teacher for a class of ballerinas, I have to know what it's like to be on point. For that reason I recall he's being so funny my mentor, who was a man, incredible dancer in Portugal and there was, we were doing footage. You know they the, the turns that women do on point and the magic number is 32, 30. They do 32. Those turns on point. It's, it's very difficult, it's what they do at the end of the ballet, in the coda, and the girls were like, oh, I get an old, tired, and then I'm doing it again and again. And my teacher stopped. He was like he's, after last news, like guys, I can do 32 foot as on point, so can you. And it was such an interesting Point of view there because men can do point work and I would love to see more of that, because it's beautiful and something I love about ballet so much is.

Nick:

I think in a lot of ways it provides a safe space for men to explore femininity, because I think in so many parts of life as men, whether we be straight, gay or Bisexual, that we are not allowed to explore feminine Things and all at all, because there's there's that this such a strong idea in discourse of oh, you must be a man. So I love ballet because it provides a space for people to explore different Besides of being. And I love point work because it's beautiful and I it lets men be beautiful and and really break out of like the oh, like I'm a hunter, which I love as well. I love playing that part, but there's a lot of space to do many parts and I would love to see men and men doing point warm ballet, because it's beautiful and it's Also like it's nothing you many can genetically do point.

Nick:

That's just the weirdest argument I've ever seen. They absolutely can do it and I'd love to see it more because men also provide a Very, very strong sense in ballet and that can go very well when fitted with point work a lot of pirouettes. You see high jumps, but still with the point shoes. It's very beautiful and I'd love to see it more.

Arian:

And and it kind of relates back to what we were talking about earlier that the men and ballet should be able to, well, they have to be able to do everything that the women do. So so, being able to Do those sort of comparisons, having a man and a woman side by side, you know, having all things being equal, both of them wearing point shoes, doing the same moves I think it would be quite interesting, because I think it would be fascinating.

Arian:

I think it would, because they're they're obviously different shapes between men and women and and the aesthetics of it. You know we talked about lines and and the aesthetics of everything. You know, when you see them doing the same sort of moves, there are different lines in the bodies as to how and when they move. So I think that would be quite fascinating to see, and it kind of relates to what I want to bring up next. I Guess you know we. I just talked about aesthetics. So what is the aesthetic Body type for a man in ballet? You mentioned height earlier, so can you?

Nick:

just a great question describe anything else.

Nick:

That's a great question. So I, everyone knows that the body's ballet type in ballet is incredibly challenging, right for women, especially because Women's technique has gone as far as it will go. I think you know women's technique and ballet developed so much earlier than men's technique, so like people have gotten as good as humans can get, I think. So what happens to those standards? Well, they don't manifest in the technique as much, but they manifest in the body. So now you must be that skinny you must be, you know, 95 pounds. Like it's insane. For men it's similar, a bit different. The thing I find so challenging about men's ballet is there's the one factor you can't change, which is the heights. As a man in ballet the ideal height is six foot three, six foot two and six foot three, which is like Seven or eight percent of the world population, like it's maybe less, nobody maybe.

Arian:

Maybe, yeah, maybe less.

Nick:

Because I believe it's like 10% of men that are six foot. So that's like so challenging because if you don't get that, what are you gonna do? Right? Nothing like there's nothing you can do. And Me, as a shorter man I'm 5'8. I feel that effect greatly because all the men who are my height To be in the same companies, they must be the best of the best. You see, dancers like Shell Waggon, like Antonio Casalino, these are dancers who dance in Europe. They're about my height and these guys there's. There's a competition happening right now called Sorry. I can keep going. They delayed my class.

Nick:

Okay, there's a competition called freedom of song happening right now, which is like the most, the best answers in the world, competing, and these, like all the guys my height who are in big companies, win that competition. Like you have to be really good if you're really short. Other types, other other body types and men that I think are actually more like relaxed than women's body types, would be um, musculature like there's, there's crazy pressure to be skinny, but for women, you're not allowed to have fat or even muscle nowadays, right, like it's insane. Like, and I understand, like at some point, like the fat part. Like you can't be, you know, obese on stage, of course, I mean, I can't be a reason stage as a ballet dancer, right, of course, but on the same token, like, if you don't have any muscle, then like, what do you do? Like I see these women. Like for Kelsey Kirkland you know she wrote the book Dancing on my Grave because you could see that she got so skinny that it was like this person is suffering, like it gets crazy. For men, though, I think, something that's much easier is they, depending on where you are, you're allowed to have some muscle, you know. You're allowed to have a strong back. You're allowed to have, you know, defined abs, strong thighs that's still crazy. Like, don't get me wrong Like if you have, like, if you're too muscular, like that's a thing. I've been told that, like one of my friends who's about the same height as me, who has, like, very strong thighs, bigger than mine, has been told that as well. But when compared with the women, men are allowed to have more muscle like that, and I think that's very helpful because we need to lift the woman, we need to jump so much higher and it promotes a much healthier body type. So I feel like you see these deathly eating disorders a bit less in men. It happens in men too, but for men it's all about height, strength.

Nick:

The feet is one more thing that's not quite caught up yet In battle. You want these really flexible feet, right. As a woman, you kind of need flexible feet. There's no two ways about that. As a man, these days are ending, but it was not always like that, like you didn't really need the feet. I have the feet, I was lucky, like I genetically have them. I was lucky. But you don't. If you're good enough, you can get away without the feet. The best guy in my school had really bad feet Like, but he made do. However, I would say that those days are coming to an end, like that's the understanding of what the men's who. So you have a bit more of a relaxed, a bit more relaxed standard than the men with the other side of. If you're not tall, like good luck.

Arian:

No, that's great and we talked about and I saw this in one of your TikTok videos as well I think maybe two, three years ago you were like 130 pounds and then last year you were like 140.

Nick:

And then recently you were 150.

Arian:

And 58, 150. And that's. I mean that's a decent size. Considering how much muscle weighs compared to fat, I mean that's still very healthy and decent weight. I couldn't imagine you being smaller, because when I'm five we're around the same height. I'm a little bit less, but when I'm around 138, my mom says I look sick. So because I don't.

Nick:

That's what my mom told me too.

Arian:

So she said I look sick and I have to eat something. And I started eating more and I'm still working out, and so I gained some muscle, but now I have to cut back. But one of the things that I've seen consistently within ballet is where there's variable men, ballet dancers. There's that variable between the aesthetics for men, where they're more muscular and others are more thin, but they still have that sort of trim, look, that healthy trim, look that seems to absolutely be required, compared to, like, thinking of men's swimmer build.

Arian:

They have the perfect aesthetic of that, but they still have those similar properties. But one of the things that I find fantastic about male ballet dancers which is kind of required are the legs. Ballet dancers in general I think they have the most proportionate looking legs from a muscular or at your standpoint. Even when my aunt was doing ballet and my mom said she has the most beautiful legs because she was a ballet dancer in study in Russia.

Nick:

But they had the most beautiful legs, but men, male ballet dancers.

Arian:

They have like the perfect muscular chair when it comes to their calves and their quads and their rears. So I know that you have to go soon and I wanna make sure that we stop at a decent point. So my last question to you.

Nick:

They just texted me and delayed my class about six minutes ago, so I can actually continue from now.

Arian:

Oh, okay, great, so just give me like a two minute warning when you need to go.

Nick:

But that's great.

Arian:

But I guess the question that I have now is that of course there's a lot of intense physical training that is required for a ballet dancer. We talked about stretching, a lot of stretching, and I guess I kind of wanna understand the workout routines that you partake in not only from a dancing aspect. We talked about the stretching a little bit, but I guess, how do you male ballet dancers get that fantastic shape that is required, especially the calves? So can you go through like maybe a workout that is required outside of the dancing aspect of it, because not too many men can do it, I would say but if you could kind of give us that sort of workout regimen as to what would be required in order to possibly at least endure the strenuous activity that is required for ballet.

Nick:

That is a fantastic talking point. So, especially in school, I had and still have, but in school it was like required, like it was a teacher in front of me doing it with me. In school I had a rigorous and very diverse workout split, if you will. Of course, I had the several ballet classes a day which were, frankly, the most important part. We'll get back to that later. Then I had Pilates, which Pilates, I believe it was created by a guy named Joseph Pilates, who was a boxer, and he was below one of the studios in New York. So the dancers went down to him when they got injured and they came back up and they were better.

Nick:

So Pilates is a lot of core work, but it also does a lot of lower leg work. So what you find in a lot of dancers is we do a lot of Pilates and calisthenics, frequently when weights are also included but we'll get to that in a second but a lot of it is body weight. How can I utilize what I have with me so I can use it anywhere? I have my body, my unit, my tool, my instrument with me and I have the kitchen floor. What can I do with that? So we have Pilates, we have a lot of stabilization and a lot of balance when it comes to the legs, a lot of balance exercises. Pilates is a lot of core. Pilates is primarily core, but it does go into the calves and legs as well and you utilize. How do I take a ball? How do I make that stabilize my ankles? Well, you take it, you put it between your ankles and you what we call this releve. You go under releve and you hold it there and you try to roll it left and right and by doing that, you build this certain strength and stability in your calves and ankles. You do the same thing in calisthenics. Of course, that's more for the men. I do weightlifting, of course, as well. Calf raises a lot of squats. I do leg press. It's a lot of different things, plus the overhead work so I can lift the women, but so it's a lot of different things. And what I'm trying to do right now is because, my, my, I think the best workout, though, for the calves in the lakes is ballet Like, frankly, it is the bar class of ballet, and which it's a shame, though, because that is one of the least accessible workout, like, if you call it a workout, it is one of the least accessible workouts to anyone. Why is that? Because it's in French, virtually. Secondly, like ballet, training is expensive.

Nick:

I was very lucky because I won a scholarship for my school. But if I had not won that scholarship, I would never have trained there. I would have had to have worked three lifetimes to like go. It was like I was very lucky, right like the kids that I went to school with. If they weren't on scholarship, they were rich. So, like the rich kids went because they wanted to and then, like they also scouted out people from around the world and they gave them scholarships. My, my dance partner was from Korea and she won, like the youth, the youth grand prix, which is like the big, big competition there. She wanted she won it in Korea that she came to the States and danced. So they would scout people out and they find the talented ones, they bring them in, they give them scholarships. So I was lucky, so I got this ballet training.

Nick:

But what I'm trying to do is because it's such a useful exercise and it's like I would not have my figure, I would have my strength, without that. So I'm trying to make it more accessible and modify to the public, because there's a lot of ways also that, like the exercise, isn't doable unless you have a different foundational strength. Unless you're, you know, your abductors and your rotators are strong enough to hold the rotation, you can't do it. But my favorite, my personal favorite exercise at the bar is called fondue, which is to melt in French, and you go from and with a knee bent if you can picture my, my arm like a leg. You go with a knee bends and the ankle bends on the floor and you extend and at the same time the other leg extends with it, so you're going through a full range of motion the entire time, which is like fine, a couple times, right, but then you do it for two minutes, you do it for three minutes, you do it for four minutes and at the end of it you balance on on the one, on the one ball of your foot, and you do that every single day and you do it three times a day forever.

Nick:

Like people often times Point at ballet, ballet body. You know the bat, the ballet body and go, oh, that's like so hard to attain, they shouldn't be requiring that. It's not because they require. It is because if you train like a ballet dancer, you will look like right, if that's just like. The training is just so rigorous.

Nick:

So you put on top of all these bar exercises which there are, there's like 11 exercises 12 exercises at the bar, because you hold the bar, because you literally Hold on to a bar so you can practice your balance better.

Nick:

So we do these 12 exercises at bar and they go through the entire range of motion. It goes through all the slow movements to warm the slow-twish muscles. It goes to the fast we must warm up the fast push muscles to get us ready for the center. Then you go to the center and you're doing all of this without the bar. So that's of course now gone and you're doing all of it and it's all about working that balance and stability. So what you'll find a lot of ballet dancers is not only is the calf very developed but all the muscles in the entire leg develop, so they can all work together and and I want that to be more accessible. So I'm I'm it's a lot, a lot of Working, reorganizing and rethinking, but I'm trying to turn that into a program in which I can make those exercises more accessible to public.

Arian:

So have you? Have you started working on that program yet I?

Nick:

Have, I have great, and the hardest part, though, is is trying to make these exercises useful With, without all turnout, because the turnout in ballet, we take our legs and return them to 180 degrees from the hips. That, if you don't develop that before age 15 or so, it is almost impossible to get unless you genetically have it, which is possible very rare, but possible. I don't genetically have it, by the way. I have some of the worst turnout I know of. However, I did start early enough and I worked on it enough that I was able to improve it to a good enough place. That it's, you know, acceptable, exactly acceptable. It's no longer bad. It's like it can now be considered good, but it is not perfect. It never was, and when I started out it was like oh my god, this is horrible, bad.

Arian:

No, that's that's great if you have it, you'll harm the knees.

Nick:

So it's, it's a lot of taking the turnout out of it and still making it so that you know, strengthen all the muscles, mm-hmm.

Arian:

And, and you know, one of the key words that you mentioned just now was, you know, using all the muscles that surround the muscle that you're actually working on. And you know, I've been working with personal trainers and you know, before I turned 40, my, you know, my mother called me fat. Well, my mother called me a fat ass. And then I started working out with her. Oh yeah, great lady, direct blunt. But you know, the people who love you will tell you the truth, so that that that's kind of how I look at it and and lover for it, I'm kind of the same way. But then, you know, when I got too skinny, she said I look like I got sick. So it gets a little confusing but, one of the fantastic.

Arian:

What are the fantastic things? You know, I learned from the trainers and and I require a trainer one because I need someone to push me but to form is necessary, you know, in order to get, you know, work out the correct muscles, but also, depending on the exercise, whether it's like cables or or, or, you know body weight, you know T or X sort of things. You need all those sort of supporting Stabilizer muscles that are associated with it, which would give you more of a well-rounded, I Guess, aesthetic look, but also it gives you that necessary mobility that is required for doing certain exercises and increase, increasing your strength capabilities and being able to push yourself even further. So, with respect to what you're trying to do, the program I'm very, very interested in seeing that Wherever it's available. Because one of the things you know, my calves are decent. I mean I, you know I don't. I Thankfully have the genetics where my calves are decent and but I know that they can use work In order to get the the shape that I want and, you know, working with my, my friend Bruce, at the gym To kind of attain it.

Arian:

But again, when it comes to ballet dancers, they hit. They have that additional knowledge that's required because that's that's an exercise that is absolutely required because they're basically on the ball males are on the balls of their feet and toes More often than that most people, and it's kind of required by them. So you're, essentially, while you're dancing on stage, you're, you're essentially working your calves throughout the entire movement, yeah, in the dance. So so I, just from understanding that and seeing it, I can see why that the calf development is is kind of necessary, and I Understand also that when it, when it comes to being able to lift the woman, of course you need to have that strength to lift the woman, and and it kind of also gives women Sort of a self-conscious aspect of the things when the guy can't necessarily lift them.

Arian:

I can kind of empathize from that standpoint. And Going back to one of the conversations that that we talked about, I guess you know the, the, the training for for men and and women, I guess, from outside, outside of ballet, what would you see women doing in the gym, if anything that would be different From men? So you talked about men being able to do the things that women do. So so, say they, people aren't dancing and you would have to be able to do the same capabilities as women. So are there any? Is there anything that she would be able to describe as to what would be considered differences and Between the men and women, how they work out outside of the gym for their capabilities?

Nick:

There's gonna be a few key differences. Number one this is not necessarily a necessary difference, but it is very much for difference that exists. I think it. There's something of a myth in ballet that it's an old myth that like, oh, don't lift heavy weights, ladies, because you'll get bulky shoulders. If it were that easy to get strong, bulky shoulders, I think a lot more people would be bodybuilders and Building muscle. That effectively is is not easy and a lot of a lot of older, like you know, old timers, think it is. So you'll see a lot less women lifting heavy weights.

Nick:

I'm not against that. I think it's actually quite helpful. It holds the posture, it holds the arms, the arms to be very strong, even for women, because you're always passing through all these positions, right. But you'll generally see women lifting heavy weights a little bit less. And for the men is like you don't have choice, you need to, because Even though ballerinas are have so much pressure to be so light, you're still lifting a person right, like you need to put at least your body weight, at least your body weight, over your head. I would want a male dancer to put 200 over his head, on a Smith at least. At least, because what you should be lifting with your legs. Also, there's a lot of technique in lifting, like the power should come from your legs and the arms just carry the momentum. But sometimes that doesn't work and when that doesn't work on stage you don't have a choice. You have to power through like you have that extra strength just in case you need it. It's a failsafe.

Nick:

Another thing that women are gonna do in the gym like a lot, a lot more than men will do, and the men should do this more, but often, if they don't, is stretch. So while men need to be as flexible as the women, the women are still oftentimes going to be more flexible than the men. You'll see women doing over splits on chairs, you know, whereas I might do an over split on, you know, up two blocks. So like I have an eight in oversplay, she's doing a 24 inch oversplay for some point, like I. I'm being careful with my words because I don't want to contradict myself.

Nick:

Men need to be able to do everything women do, but at some point you can be too flexible as a man until you are rendered a Bit I don't want to say like useless, because you'll still be useful, but until you're rendered less useful as a partner, right, like, if I am so incredibly flexible that I can't hold my core, I'm not a useful partner, I can't be hired, right right. So You're gonna see women doing a lot more flexibility, some lower weights, and you might see them Working their back flexibility more, because, as a woman, the back, the back flexibility I think it's actually the largest gap in the body between men and women. The back flexibility for a woman is necessary, like you cannot be a dancer without it, because it's for partnering. The back is the most important part of partnering for men. You need a flexible back, of course, but you don't need to be lifted from the backs.

Arian:

Oh yeah, lifting from your legs and and yeah lift from your knees.

Arian:

You know that that's all saying, and With respect to you know the education that that you went through, and and I'm very, very fascinated by by the gender aspect of it, because you know there's some things that are very traditional in the sense when, you know, men have to portray more masculine roles in ballet, women have usually portray more feminine roles in ballet, and I can kind of see the analogy when and there's a reason for it that when you look at gymnastics, for example, men and women, they have different exercises or or or classes of performances. You know, for example, the, the High beam for for men, for women and, and the horse for men, and, and I'm not sure if, if, if you were to switch the roles you know in in that sort of, in that sort of way, you know Women being able to do the horse, that horse exercises, and and men working on that beam.

Arian:

Uh, I don't envision it Uh being a success. Um, so I think what would would would would be kind of a funny parody, because ballet and I hope somebody does this one day I I hope there was some sort of there would be some sort of parody where the men would be wearing the tutu. So say, for example, you did swan lake, the men would be wearing the tutus and, uh, the women would be the prince and the monster and and and do all those roles. I think it would be so hilarious to actually see that.

Nick:

My friends and I made it tick tock like that a while back where we did like women's parts, and you find you find a lot of different things because Women's parts and men parts are fundamentally different in this technique, right? Like if you take a woman's class versus a men's class yes, it's still ballet, but it's very different. In men's class You're there's a similarities, but in men's class you want to be balancing a lot. You're only balancing on like a tip of your toes, right, they're like on the ball of your foot, and you're also gonna be balancing in plie or with the lake bet. Balancing the lake bent for men is very important because you can't land these massive jumps and then you know, not know how to land them with that play, with that bend in your leg, you need to be able to balance that landing.

Nick:

So, like men's, I miss my, my training, honestly, because it was like you were these crazy men's classes where we'd be doing these Fantastic jumps and these big turns. And nowadays I'm in a company and the majority that answers the company are women. So I'm dancing women's technique, which I can still do because it isn't my training to do everything, but I do miss the big, actually quite, quite significant differences of men's technique where it's, like you know, balance in this position for a minute, like every time that we do something wrong, the teacher would take us and they put us in a position called Alice. I call to the second position with the. Basically it's the leg straight out at 90 degrees and you're on the tip of your toe or you're on the ball, your foot, balancing For a minute which, like it's just a minute, right, I've heard about 30 seconds. The legs are shaking and you're like, oh sorry, and it helps you and I miss that. And I miss From men's class teachers plays the music slower, or that teacher that the pianist, if you have a pianist, the music is slower to gives you more time to jump right, there's more turns, there's more jobs, bigger, and I miss that.

Nick:

And I find it so interesting that you talked about gymnastics because it's quite similar in the sense that there are these, these similar differences for men and women and Something that the girls and the boys would actually do in my school because when we had free time we do it our whole. Last repality is we would do that and my friends and I we made a funny video a while back about us, like parroting the women's parts, and it's interesting because you find that like, yes, you can do it, but you you earn a new respect for the parts the woman are doing, because there are these difficult, small aspects that you don't really notice unless you're dancing Mm-hmm. And I'd love to do more parodies like that, because they're very funny, people love them, they're very popular and it's just a great time to do.

Arian:

I saw this movie a long time ago, um, and I and I I'm not sure if it was like one of the naked gun movies or whatever, but I remember that there was, you know, those those comedy scary movies, you know that scary movie series that were comedies, and there was another guy, I think it was Leslie Nielsen, who did it, but there was a parody of the performance making fun of of ballet, and One of the things that I found they, they exaggerated certain things in the parody, which was great. For example, one of the things that was exaggerated was the men's package.

Nick:

So I think I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, I think I've seen this.

Arian:

Yeah, it was like though the woman was was. Actually jumping on the men's package to get.

Nick:

Yes, I saw this. I saw this. Do you remember a?

Arian:

movie that was I.

Nick:

Don't exactly recall, but I recall that scene exactly and it was I was Kind of trying to get away from two other guys, but I thought that I was before. I saw that before I shot a dancing, by the way, I thought I was a kid and I was like with my dad, was like that, wouldn't it do it. But I found that hilarious. Well, and it's funny you bring it up because it's while. So we have like protective wear for for them, for the male anatomy, right, that like that, but it's not so exaggerated. And if it looks that exaggerated Sometimes I find this embarrassing for men to do this. But so what I've seen, I saw it happen once where a guy took it must have been a sock or like a bean bag or something and he took it and he stuffed it inside the protective wear and you could tell and it looked like really funny on stage.

Arian:

But it reminded me of that and I guess one of the questions that I have and and maybe this is out of pure ignorance I mean, the women in ballet would be kicking a lot in the air. Have you ever gotten kicked at the nuts, or have you ever See? Have you ever experienced that as part of your?

Nick:

training. Yes, you will and you have. So actually I have a. We call them dance bells. I have one on hand here. This is, yeah, this is, this is right. Here is a dance belt.

Nick:

You know, it looks a lot like a thong because essentially it is a thong right and you see the string there it's back, cuz you don't want any underwear lines cutting off the line up. It's not like it sounds funny. But the line of the butt, yeah, you don't. You don't like the glue muscles, you don't want to line intersecting that shape. Right, we're looking at the geometry of the body and, in the same token, you want to kind of mask the front, because there is a lot of detail there that doesn't necessarily need to be shown all the time, right? So you have this, this padded layer in the front to keep everything protected and shaped. Firstly, it's aesthetic. It's both aesthetic and also safety, which is the next point we're going to get through just moment. This is a jet dance, jocks dance, but, by the way, very good bread On the break.

Nick:

On the protective aspect, that does provide some protection because there's a layer of padding and also everything is think of it like a sports bra for woman. Everything is collected right, like if nothing's knocking around, necessarily. And yes, being being hit in the that place will happen to you. It will and it hurts and you just have to play it off like it didn't happen. Because the thing is, if that happened, it is the guys fault. Because when, when the woman is that, when you're dancing with a woman, it is not up to her to distance yourself from you, it is up you to distance yourself from her. You are like very much so, ken, to her Barbie, right, like it is your job to make her look good and it's her your job to make her look a beautiful princess. It's your job just to make that happen and to stay out of the way enough to let her do that.

Nick:

While you can help her and it's happened to me on several occasions what it happens a lot when doing pirouettes, like the woman has the leg in this position, we call, we call passe, like this, or the position is public, all right, passe is the action of going through it, regardless Semantics. When you're in that position, if you get too close, what'll happen to? The knee will clip you, and that happens a guys a lot. And my teacher would always say, like girls, if he's too close. Don't be scared. Like you can keep turning. If you hit him, he'll move like he'll learn very quickly.

Nick:

Yes, a little. It's funny and I never got hit by a spinning me like that. But what did happen me once was when, when you lift, you don't want to go backward like this. It's. It's time to do that, because the pecs are strong, they can provide a lot of support, but it's bad for the back and also it exposes the groin.

Nick:

And there was one time I was dancing with my partner, who is. I was very lucky because she was, frankly, the best dancer in the school. I was very lucky to be dancing with her. She was also incredibly strong, like had legs that I'm sure to put down a wall. Oh right.

Nick:

And I leaned back to get her higher was a technical miss, you on my part, and she was doing a, a step called see see six in French right, and the legs just change a bunch of times like that. So her legs are going fast like they're in a blur right, and I leaned back and boom, and I was like, oh my gosh. But you know what? It was my fault. So I can't be like, oh my gosh, this just happened to me. I play it off, you breathe, but it is part of your training, it will happen, and it's one of the more embarrassing parts. I think it's one of the funnier parts, if you will, but it's a reality and it will happen and you're going to learn how to deal with it and you're going to learn how to prevent it.

Arian:

I have such a good idea for some content. My gears are turning. I'll talk to you about it later, but I think it's hilarious. It would kind of relate to this, but no, is that your most memorable story, or accident, as you want to call it, in ballet, or do you have anything that's so memorable?

Nick:

I have a couple more. There was one time that I was so one. When a girl goes a pirouette, you help her by supporting. If she's turning to the right. She's turning on her left leg. You help her by supporting the left side, so your hand is there. If she falls to the left, it'll just push her to the right If she starts slowing down. If you want to do more pirouettes, you take this hand and you pull back the front hip and so that time you can kind of manipulate her. Turn by her hips from the base of the structure of her bones and it'll turn her like it's hot. There was one time that a girl raised her arms like this for him to go from first we call this position first here to go to fifth over the head. She raised them but she went too far out Boom right across the face. Guys have broken their noses from that happening. I didn't break my nose, it was not that bad, but it's happened and with lifts, especially when practiced safely, can be very fun and they fail a lot.

Nick:

There was one of my favorite lifts was one I did. I brought this partner not names, but I brought her up now twice, but I'll bring her up again. This partner that I did last year. We're doing a lift for a ballet called Lorencia, where she sits on my shoulder, essentially, and I lift her up and we do a bunch of spins. And this lift is interesting because there is no way to fix it if it goes badly. It has to be right.

Nick:

A lot of lifts like if I'm doing a drape lift which is hurling and leaning backward on my hand with one arm and it goes badly and something's wrong, I can put up the other arm. There's ways to get over that. If a press lift where you're holding her, like this, goes badly, if you can't get her up, you provide a little extra support, you jolt your legs, you get her up and this lift. There's no exit plan, right. So it has to go correctly. And there were some times in rehearsals that are halfway up and I could feel it wasn't happening. We both just collapsed the floor on top of each other and it's very funny in times like that. There was also a time with this same partner. She's like my biggest story.

Arian:

With the same partner.

Nick:

We were doing a lift called a bluebird, and a bluebird it starts in a split, either from the back or from the front. So in this case I was holding her back leg in a split, so her front leg was dragging across the floor and I have her torso in this arm. So what I do is I flip her off the ground, she brings from her split, she brings her legs together, and that provides a lot of syndical force. She then rolls up. The idea is, she rolls up my body onto my shoulder, but she and I we neither of us had the correct body type. We're both very stocky, in short, which is why we're placed together. But also with that stocky, muscular body type comes a lot of extra power. And what we did is we both put too much power and so instead of just landing like nicely on my shoulder, like it should go, she flew Like it was always like oh my gosh.

Nick:

And as a guy, it is my job to keep her safe. That is my only job is to make her look good and also to keep her safe. I want her to have a long career. So at that point you just grab it and then you can grab it. So I'm like I've got to get her and she ended up with her legs split between my arm, like this, and me holding her her torso like that, and didn't touch the ground. But it was funny. Same partner again.

Nick:

We did a press lift once. We were just having fun. We were just dancing after class. We had our street clothes on. I was in sweat pants and like a tank top like this. She had yoga pants on and like a crop top and like a shawl, and the shawl it was a very pretty one was loose, right. And I went for this press lift when we were dancing this ballet because we were just messing around after class and the shawl went through my hand. So I get her up, the shawl slips, she falls. Everyone in the room screamed because like, oh my god, that was supposed to happen. But you know, you catch her, it's all OK. But there was a ton, there's, you know, a mountain of funny moments like that. That happened and that's one of my favorite parts of being a ballet dancer, because, as hard at the career is, you get those cute little moments that make it so worth it.

Arian:

Absolutely no, I think it's. You know, you just mentioned something like. You know it seems like almost, and it's almost hilarious. Men can't win when it comes to like being injured or causing injury because you know it's your fault that she fell back, it's your fault that you get kicked in the nuts.

Arian:

And that's sort of the thing that comes to mind. So, no matter what, it's OK. It's OK at the men's fall, I mean, you know, usually we are willing to accept the blame, and even if it's not the case, so just got to be a big boy and quarter salt.

Nick:

take it like a man, but no, it's completely.

Arian:

it's just so interesting. But you know, sometimes I do like to win, but as long as it's fun and not serious or any ill will towards the other person. But, I think it's quite interesting and I guess the last and I don't want to keep you too long and just want to make sure that we don't.

Arian:

They delay my hours, oh OK great and you kind of touched on the next topic and you were talking about clothes, you were talking about sweats, you talked about her shawl and I guess you know what I found very, very interesting is not only the costumes. I mean, forget the costumes. I know some of them are supposed to be extravagant, depending on the roles that you're playing or the characters that you're playing, but I guess the question is what you guys typically wear during your practice sessions or rehearsals, Because I've always found and I found this more common in men, excuse me, in women as opposed to men, but they would have something like leg warmers, like from the 80s.

Arian:

And I see men wear it on occasion, or just even wear it on one leg where there's that sort of asymmetry. So I kind of want you to describe I guess the quote unquote fashion choices that are associated with the rehearsals, and why Absolutely?

Nick:

So in school, especially if you're at a prestigious school, you have a uniform. My uniform in school was white shoes with white socks and gray tights, which are incredibly revealing and humbling, because gray tights like somehow highlight all of your issues, and then a white shirt on top of that. So if you had leg warmers, you should be like take it off. So I'd pants that in combination, take them off. You all look the same. So if you want to be better, you have to perform better. You can't just look better right. When you're in a company, you have some more flexibility. You wear pretty much whatever you want, and so yet layers and the ballet look trash bag pants. You have leg warmers, like you mentioned. You have booties, which I actually adore. My booties are not here with me right now, actually, but I adore my booties. So think about snow boots but the heavy rubber sole and just make it a thin layer of leather. Those are booties. I live in a warm climate now, obviously, so I don't use them right now, but when it's cold outside, those are your best friends, like personal foot ovens, the best. So that's definitely part of the look. So as a dancer, you can sport a couple different looks, because it's quite a cultural thing. Now you can sport the one leg warmer look. It's like a new and alternative. People do the one pant leg look a new and alternative.

Nick:

I was never so into extra junk I'll take it off fast Because I get so warm and sweaty so fast that in company life I wore a tank top and basically booty shorts. Right, because it's 80 degrees outside. We don't have AC. That's not how it works. So, yeah, I can know. So I don't wear layers in class. I take my layers off very fast and I've typically always been like that.

Nick:

But there are dancers who love the layered look, which I can respect, though I will say that when I was in school and I lived in a colder climate, I had my uniform, but my look was gray sweats. I had rolled up gray sweats and I had booties. And I did the gray sweats because my favorite dancer, makayla Barijnikov, who's a famous father of dance, he wore gray sweats in a lot of his practice videos and what he would do is his look Like every dancer has a look. His look was he would take like rolls for almost like gauze, but it was just for support for the knees and he would roll around his sweatpants, so he'd have this like rolled sweatpants look, and he would also roll up sweatpants at the waist. So that's what I did.

Arian:

I know exactly what you're talking about. Every dancer.

Nick:

Yeah, yeah. So the ballerinas love typically, the more the girls and the guys love the trash bag pants, the Lululemon Zip-Ups not as popular as the guys but those are so popular to girls Booties with everyone. With the guys it's always, you know, it's the sweatpants, it's the vest, it's the chain swinging around when they're turning. It's a very fun little niche ballet, I think, but I was always pretty minimalist with it.

Arian:

Yeah, and you mentioned the chain just now and it's funny because I've been sourcing some jewelry and been playing around with certain designs and what have you, and maybe I'll send you one of the prototypes eventually for the jewelry, but I would think it would be jewelry swinging around the chains. That's dangerous. I mean, that's like a, I know. I mean, if you're allowed to wear that, and I guess that's another thing that you would get blamed for. I mean they're just adding to it which sucks For necklaces.

Nick:

I love a necklace on the woman. Why is that? Because you have the little connector part back here and when you're partnering a woman, if you're in front of her, you look here, right at this place. So typically the necklace because they're not allowed to have swinging necklaces right, it has to be tight, almost like a collar right. So the necklace typically lies here. So that's a great point of reference on the woman's necklace From the back of the neck, the connector point, right at this part here, that vertebrae, and when you're behind her, that's where you look.

Nick:

You're always at those two points. Occasionally you make eye contact in certain moments, but only when that's directed. Otherwise it's a very professional, like these two points. So I love a necklace on the woman because it provides a very clear point of reference as to where to look. For the guys, though, I recall there was one guy in my class, super macho, super strong. He had this bail chain with that pendant and when he would do tours this guy had great tours, his turns in the air were very strong. He would do it and that thing would whip around and I was like the reason I don't wear one of those is because how much guys can come hit me in the face.

Arian:

Anything could happen. I mean, somebody could get too close, the clasp could break and fly out somewhere and hit somebody in the eye and you hear about shooting a guy's eye out or something like that. From that, what was it a Christmas story or something like that? You're going to shoot that guy's eye out, or something like that.

Arian:

But, I can't even imagine. And when it comes to the uniform aspect, I actually like the uniform sort of mentality in school. I appreciate everybody's individuality, but wearing a uniform when you're going to school, it causes less stress. You know what you're going to wear. You could make it your own, in a sense where you mentioned rolling up something or rolling down something or unbuttoning one thing. As long as you can make it your own, that would be a great statement. But I guess now that you work for a company, you have more flexibility as to what you wear or what you don't wear, also depending on the climate.

Nick:

Right.

Arian:

No, that's all good stuff. So, no, I want to thank you for actually taking the time to speak with me today. This was a really fun conversation and what I'm going to do is, like I said, I'm preparing a package for you, so I'm going to send you some gear and then we can have another call and talk about the clothes because we talked about in our private conversation. You like lines and I want to see how we can incorporate my brand with your lines, because I love lines too. That's kind of what my PhD research is based on, which I'm actually maybe getting this year, according to my professor, so I should be done with that Awesome, that damn thing soon.

Nick:

Congratulations, congratulations.

Arian:

Yeah, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to prepare that package for you and send that out and give you the tracking, and I guess the last statement before we go is where can everybody find you?

Nick:

You can find me on Instagram, on TikTok, on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube as well. So I should mention YouTube, and all of my ads are Nick the Garvey. It's actually the same one every single social media in existence. I was lucky that that tag was not taken anywhere. Oh great, so yeah.

Arian:

No, that's awesome, so I'll also give that information out as well and share it with everybody. But no, this was such a great conversation and lightning, and one of the reasons why I wanted to have this with you is because, you know last, I just I'm just releasing the first episode of this podcast, but and I was talking with the guy who's an aspiring bodybuilder and now I'm talking with you a male ballet dancer I want to get as many different types of athletes as possible because, like I mentioned, I think every athletic activity, especially for the man, different aesthetics and capabilities are required.

Arian:

And when you have those different requirements, you have different body shapes, body types, body lines and capabilities. And I think it's very, very important to kind of be aware, at least from my standpoint, as to what I do with my brandos Mari, to kind of make informed decisions when it comes to what I create and how to take measurements. So I really thank you so much for your time and I'm so thankful also that your class got postponed for a, for an hour.

Arian:

And this was honestly a pleasure and I'm looking so much. I'm looking forward to talking to you again very, very soon.

Nick:

Thank you, thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Arian:

Thanks a lot, nick, and I'll talk to you later.

Nick:

Have a good one All right Bye.

Arian:

So if you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe and comment on this podcast and I hope to see you on the next one. Cheers.