Judge Eddie Vines Discuss Mediation Process

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:50

Today is February the 14th, 2026. Valentine's Day. The day that all men get sucked into buying roses. Taking the wife or the girlfriend out for a dinner. Spend money on some chocolate. Maybe a gift or some jewelry or a diamond. We're all suckers. How about this for a minute? I say, come on down, see me. Let's do a divorce sale for Valentine's Day. How about that? I'm just kidding, guys. Just kidding. Just a joke. You're listening to the Legal Lowdown with Joe Ingram, your Alabama lawyer on WERC 105.5 FM in Birmingham, just off the UAB campus, WBHP 102.5 in Huntsville, and WRTR 105.9 in Tuscaloosa. We welcome you those in Huntsville and Tuscaloosa to our show. We ask you to listen in, download, share, let us know what you want to hear from us. Today we have a great guest in the studio. He is a former judge, retired judge from the Bessemer Cutoff, Jefferson County, Judge Eddie Vines. He'll be here with us in just a second. If you're listening to our show, please download it, share it with your friends, encourage others to listen in as well to our uh broadcast. In a few weeks, you'll be able to start watching the show on my YouTube channel. Look forward to that. I don't have the voice for radio, as I've said before, and I surely don't have the face for TV, but you'll still get to see both. If you have a question, always go to your app on your iPhone, the little uh iHeartRadio app. That's the Spy for Rent hotline, Spy Forent hotline. If you have a question, if you have a comment, that's how you can get to us. Spy for Rent is the best investigators in the state. Jeff Hammock, Corey Fuller are my private investigators for my firm, and they can take care of you as well. They can serve papers, they can do investigations on your spouse, on your paramour, they can even do bug sweeps, they do forensic cell phone searches for me. They can do anything that you need. So, with all that, let's get right to what matters today. Judge Vines, how are you? I'm good.

SPEAKER_03: 3:07

How are you, Joe? I'm good. Did you have a good week? I did. It's been a busy week. A lot of mediating going on. That's good for business, isn't it? Good for business, and I think good for the participants.

SPEAKER_01: 3:17

So Okay, so um I I brought you in. I I asked you a couple weeks ago, I said, Judge, would you come talk about mediation? You said, sure, I'd be glad to do it. This is really an important subject in divorce cases. And so um I really want to talk about this pub this subject to educate the audience that are going through divorce and understand, you know, what the procedure is about, why it happens. Um we talked a little bit before we got in the studio. Sometimes the court will order mediation, regardless if the parties want to do it or not, in a standing order before we have to try the case. So um, and and we were talking, you know, there's there's one particular judge in a county. Once you file a divorce case, it's part of the standing order that the parties have to try to mediation before there's a trial. So sometimes um, you know, my clients will call me and they'll get the order and they'll say, Joe, why do I have to go to mediation? And I'll say, Well, the court ordered you to do it. And then their next response is, Well, are you afraid to try my case? No, sir. No, ma'am, I'm not. But we have to do what the court asks us to do. We've got to give it a try. And then the next question I always get is, Well, am I gonna get to tell my side of the story? I I want to tell my side of the story about what happened in the divorce case. And I say, yes, we're all those things can happen and will happen if you need to. But let's go through the process. So let's start with this. Uh I call Judge Vines, I set up a mediation with you. Uh sometimes we do them at your office. Sometimes we do them at my office or the other attorney's office. We get on your book. It's not as it's not as fast or as easy as people think it is, right?

SPEAKER_03: 5:20

Yeah, it kind of depends on the the time. As uh at this time, as you and I were discussing uh out in the hallway a few moments ago, now is a really busy time. And uh part of that is just because we have a particular group of judges that really like mediation and they're sending a lot of people to mediation, and then after another election cycle, you get a different mix of judges and may maybe not as many, but I would say right now I'm booking into April pretty much right now.

SPEAKER_01: 5:49

Yeah. And also not just you, but getting a a judge, a prior judge, and two lawyers together all on the same day is not as easy as people think it is, right?

SPEAKER_03: 6:00

Absolutely. And then of course people work and they have child child care issues and elderly parents, it it's it's a little bit difficult to to find the day. And um when uh when we do find the day, I I I almost never matter of fact, I I don't think I've ever uh postponed a mediation for the reason that you just said. Now sometimes things will come up and lawyers or parties will have to postpone. They get sick or something, but I don't believe I ever have simply because of what we're talking about. I know how much people have rearranged their lives to get there.

SPEAKER_01: 6:36

Yeah. All right. So tell the audience a little bit what mediation really is in a divorce case. Just explain a little bit for us.

SPEAKER_03: 6:43

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Okay. Mediation is an opportunity for the parties to come together with their lawyers. Most of the time they have lawyers and attempt to settle their case out of court with the assistance of a mediator who is sometimes called a neutral because the mediator doesn't have a dog in the fight, as we like to say in the South. You know, you've got a lawyer on each side, those are the advocates. Those are the people that are trying to help their client get the best deal they can get in the context. And I say in the context because it's not going to be necessarily the best wish list deal that you could get. It's going to get the best, it's going to be the best realistic deal, is what the lawyer is hoping to be able to do. The mediator's job is not to advocate for anyone or try to help anyone come out better than the other. Uh, and ethically, you can't mediate a case uh generally for someone that you have a close friendship with or that type of thing. But the media mediation is the opportunity to have someone who does a lot try to assist you by seeing creative ways to maybe get the two of you together in a way that you haven't thought of. And sometimes the lawyers haven't thought of it, even though they may be brilliant lawyers, they're in advocacy mode. They're not thinking they got their blinders on. Yes. They're being advocates. That's absolutely right. And that's what they're supposed to do. Matter of fact, they have an ethical duty to be an advocate and try to, you know, do the best for their client. But sometimes it's hard for them to get out of that role. And I think sometimes they just get fatigued from all of the emailing and the back and forth, and they say, let's just get in one place together and get this done. So the the mediator basically begins with kind typically, I know what I do, begin with kind of a monologue where I explain the um the processes of how mediation works and and the goals of what we're trying to do, and then we will begin what I call the shuttling process. Someone will make an offer, we'll come back to the other room and they'll look at it and they will typically say, We'll do some of this, but we won't do all of it. So then they make an offer and you go back and you do that. Ideally, until you get it settled, and most cases do settle in mediation.

SPEAKER_01: 9:08

Yeah. And um I I want to talk about for a second. You you talked about you couldn't be in a case where you knew somebody or if there was a maybe a conflict of interest. Uh I had a case with you last year that you mediated that you actually knew the party not saying any names. And you actually called me and you said, Hey Joe, I know these people. Are you okay with it? And I said, Yeah, we are. And we were good. But um that doesn't always happen. But I knew you, and I told my client, I said, You have no concerns about Judge Vine's not being completely impartial once we get into this role. You know, he's he's gonna look at this from the 50,000-foot view. He he doesn't have a dog in the fight, as you say. All right, so Judge, let me ask you this as a practitioner, when you get a divorce mediation and whether it has all the issues, uh, whether we call it just a money case, meaning it's just a division of assets, or whether it's a custody case and a division of asset case, right? Do you prefer to get mediation statements from each side of the uh from each party before the mediation starts so you have an overall objective idea of what you're going to get into that day? Or does it really matter to you?

SPEAKER_03: 10:32

I think some mediators require position statements, conf confidential position statements. What I put in my confirmation email is I invite them, but I don't require them. And the reason I say that is because I really use them just as a tool to help me see what the particular issues are. This is I'm not sitting like a judge like I used to, where people try to persuade me necessarily that at this point, you know, they're really, I hope, just trying to inform me. But um I've I've been doing this so long and was a a judge for so long. I sometimes say that mediating this case is a little bit like Groundhog Day for me. I typically don't see anything that's not kind of routine. So if the parties, if the lawyers decide to not send me position statements, I can get up to speed in five or ten minutes on what's going on in in in the case. But I do prefer them if if a lawyer wants to send them.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Yeah. Uh so when you come in and you you have a duty, you introduce yourself to each side, you explain the process. I've sat in that room a million times. I just put my head down, look at my iPhone, because I know you've you've got to do your role, right? And you explain the whole process. It takes about 30, 45 minutes to start on each side of the game. And everybody doesn't understand that, but I get why you do it. And so I just go about my business and then we tee it off with an initial offer or you know, where we're trying to start at in the case. So um let me ask you this. What is the longest mediation you've ever done?

SPEAKER_03: 12:19

I did one one day that was about 12 hours long. We we were there till about nine o'clock at night and we'd started at nine that morning. Now I some of the big things like big labor union disputes, you know, those go on for weeks. And sometimes some of the uh really wealthy folks are in divorce, their mediations may take a few days. Uh but most of the people, most of the lawyers that use me represent kind of, you know, middle class folks, and you know uh somewhere between uh five and eight hours is probably gonna be my usual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:57

Have you seen a difference over the years? I was talking to somebody the other day. It seems like to me that pets have become a really big issue in divorce cases, right?

SPEAKER_03: 13:10

Absolutely. Absolutely. It it it's it's way different than it used to be. And I don't really know what's caused that other than uh we've just become, I guess, more of a pet loving culture. You see all these little videos of cute kitties and things, I guess is what's kind of spurred that, but you're right, it's it's a coming coming thing.

SPEAKER_01: 13:31

Um I had a m mediation with you about two years ago. You probably won't remember because you do so many. We were getting really close to the end on in a trying to you know wrap up our mediation, and all of a sudden the issue of the dogs come up. And one spouse wanted the animals but couldn't take them with them. So the other spouse, my client, had to keep the animals, and that person didn't want to keep the animals, but had to for a short period of time. That almost killed the whole mediation, and we had been here like seven hours.

SPEAKER_03: 14:13

I recall that. I uh now that you've refreshed my memory, I do recall that it almost uh torpedoed the mediation because ironically, the one that wanted the animals was not gonna have an immediate place to keep the animals.

SPEAKER_01: 14:27

Trevor Burrus And the other big issue was the cost to feed the animals. Right. It was pretty high, if I remember correctly. And one party was like, well, have I got to pay for this? You know? And it almost killed the whole day's work. Absolutely. And so then we all you know, what's really good about mediators is that sometimes in your role, you'll come get me and you'll say, Joe, can me and you and the other lawyers step outside. Can we kind of have a little huddle and see where the rubs are? You know what I'm saying? Explain that.

SPEAKER_03: 14:59

I mean, they call that a caucus. Right. That's when you go out and you have a little private meeting with the other lawyers, or sometimes um you can mix it up a little. You might just meet with one of the lawyers if that at that moment seems like what you need to do. Um but when you do that, sometimes you can see that the the parties are a little over their head in their understanding maybe of some of the the tac technical aspects of the law, and you know that if you can get the lawyers together and and hear what they think uh needs to happen in order to get it settled, then you can focus on that. Um so it particularly, and I I hate to say this, you know this, but a lot of it has to do with the chemistry between the lawyers. There are some lawyers that I I just intentionally would not bring them together to I will say they're in the minority. Most of the lawyers I work with, uh they are collegial and friendly and they they help, you know, they're helpful to the process while advocating. Nobody's selling anybody out. You hear that all the time. I've never seen that. But uh yeah, the caucus sometimes can really kind of cut to the chase on what do we need to do to get this resolved.

SPEAKER_01: 16:15

Yeah. Um talking with Judge Eddie Vines here from the Bessemer Cutoff, he's a retired judge. He does mediation style here primarily in Jefferson with Sheppe County. He's a very good mediator, and he's a very good judge. He's a very wonderful man, by the way. I'm on I want him to talk about that before he leaves today. So, Judge, um in the mediation process, um you when you go in and you meet with in each individual side, you always will say something to the effect of how much can I disclose to the other side when I go in? Because I want you to talk about that for a second. You know you know what you know what I'm saying about when we're talking about offers. I'm talking with you and my client, and you may say, Joe, do you want me to give that much away or do you do you want me to hold that back?

SPEAKER_03: 17:08

So that that's a great question. Comes up a lot in mediations. Um sometim pe one of the first things I tell them is that this is confidential. You can be open and honest with me just like you would with your lawyer, because free communication is helpful because what I'm trying to do, what a mediator mostly does is try to help the parties envision how a trial might go. And when they see that, you know, it's probably not going to go 100% my way, they will typically become more willing to compromise. So you try to foster that free communication back and forth, but at the same time, they may tell you something that that they don't want the other side to know. So um uh ethically, I can't go and and r repeat things that that the person I'm speaking with, the party I'm speaking with, wants to be kept confidential. And there's two basic approaches for mediators to take on that. One of them in their monologue to begin with, as I call it, they will say, I'm gonna repeat anything you tell me unless you tell me not to. I think that puts a little bit too much of a burden on a person who's there and under pressure and hadn't probably been in a mediation. I've never been through that before. I take the other approach and I say, if I think something needs to be repeated that you've told me, I will specifically ask you for your permission before I go do that. And I think that helps them be more at ease knowing that I'm not going to go tell their private business that maybe their spouse, you know, sometimes people are separated. I mean, I've had mediations where the parties were separated for years and they've moved on in different directions and they don't necessarily want their spouse to know all that they're doing, and so and that's fair enough. So I've I always really, really make sure that this is something that's okay to tell because occasionally it's helpful to tell this other thing. Um, you know, for instance, a party might have uh been diagnosed with a disease and they haven't told their spouse, but because I've been in both rooms, I can see that maybe that would be helpful for the spouse to know if if I have permission to tell it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:22

Right. Give give and take on some issue or or or on money or something like that or it it can be a whole lot of different things.

SPEAKER_03: 19:33

Just um uh the confidentiality, there's just a few things that mediators are supposed to go over and hit hard when we first meet with the parties, and that's one of them. We want them to know that that I I'm not going to go tell their business or your trial strategy as the lawyer. You know, I it might be you I'm turning to and saying, Joe, is am I okay to repeat that? And you might say, Oh, well, let's hold back on that. I think I'd rather save that for now.

unknown: 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 20:01

Um so that's the confidentiality, and then I I do go over with them the fact that mediators are unbiased in the process. As you mentioned, there was one potential conflict we had and we resolved that by the parties agreeing that I could go ahead and mediate despite the fact that I knew one of the parties. But um uh we talk on talk about that, and then the other um the other thing that's becoming more and more important to me to talk about early in the mediation, and I I don't mean to chase a rabbit, but if if you'll let me talk about this, I think it's very important. Oh, go and that is that you can't get anything by force in a mediation. You have to, as the party, you have to to some degree help the mediator figure out what types of offers would your spouse actually entertain. If if we have the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object, then we're just wasting everybody's money. That's what happens when you go to trial. Everyone's trying to get the best deal they can get, persuade the judge, you're you know putting on evidence and making, you know, persuasive arguments. And I try to um stress to them that's not what we're doing today. I used to be a judge, but I'm not a judge anymore. I'm not gonna write an order in this case. If if we don't have an agreement that both parties agreed to, although you're not probably gonna love it because you had to compromise to get it, if we don't do that, then the case doesn't get settled because it you have to sign voluntarily, the other side has to sign voluntarily, and if you're just beating the table and saying, I have to have custody or I have to have this or that, uh and expecting the mediator to somehow persuade them, that that's not how it works. I try to tell people early on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:03

We're talking with Judge Eddie Vines about mediation today and um talking about the process. Judge, um have you ever I I'm sure you've had, but I haven't asked you this. Have you ever had a mediation where people came in and they knew they were either ordered to do it or or the part their lawyers told them to do it, and you could just see that What was the shortest mediation? Let me ask you that way. What's the shortest mediation you ever been in?

SPEAKER_03: 22:35

Probably a couple of hours because by the time I get through, as you said earlier, doing my initial meeting with each of them, and that's also I call that sometimes my catharsis meeting. That's when I also invite them to tell me, why do you think we're here today? How did the marriage break down? Why are we doing this instead of fishing or golfing or doing something fun? Why are we sitting here in a divorce mediation? And you're right, that does sometimes take a little a little bit. But I think that's incredibly helpful, uh, particularly when there's someone that used to be a judge and they can kind of feel like they've been heard. Maybe they don't feel like they've got to go and let the judge in their case hear it because somebody cared enough to listen to what they had to say about their unfortunately broken marriage. Um so I I've had one or two really short ones, but I will say this I've had people come in with that kind of stiffness and uh unwillingness seemingly to talk to begin with, but I've had very good fortune at being able to get people to relax uh after I talk to them and explain the process. And that's part of my job. So most people stay on, and I've had a number of cases settled that the lawyers will say, well, that was a miracle. They may even tell me beforehand, we're just going through the motions because we were ordered, but this is not going to settle, and then lo and behold, we get it settled.

SPEAKER_01: 23:57

Yeah. And part of that, Judge, is we're fixed to go to break here in a minute, I think, John. Uh part of that when we come back at the break is because of this man, Judge Vines, how good he is at what he does. It's an art to be a mediator, just like practicing law is an art. We'll be back after the break. All right. I'm just kidding, guys. I'm just kidding. Go buy the flowers, take the wife it at dinner. We're talking with Judge Eddie Vines from the Bessemer Cutoff that's retired that does mediations. We're talking about mediation day. Judge, right before we went to break, you you're about to lead into something that's really important. We were talking about that people that come into a mediation room and they're stiff and they're mad and they're still angry and have contempt and they don't want to be there. And you come in and you are disarming and you're very relaxed in that first meeting with them, almost like a preacher, almost like a social worker, almost like somebody there just to listen to them. And sometimes I told you they'll say something for the first time that I haven't heard in the whole case because it's a different person in the room and you come in from a different approach. Talk about that and how to and how that may help settle the case.

SPEAKER_03: 26:26

Well, I think putting people at ease is really, really important uh in in this process. And I I I try to work on my empathy skills, if they are skills. I don't know. I try to be able to put myself in other people's shoes, and that's a real important part of actually for the participants in a mediation to kind of look and see where the other one is coming from, not just be dug in too too hard. But I try to think in terms of, you know, this person one of the first questions I ask is, have you ever been in a mediation before? Well, if they usually say no, and if I'm that person, I'm gonna be a little nervous. Um I'm sitting here with with some guy that used to be a judge that I don't know, and um uh I'm I don't know what's gonna happen to begin with. Fair point. Yeah. So uh so I work really hard at trying to put myself in their shoes. And it's not that hard because you knew me after I was a judge, and I think we may have been in law school at the same time, but maybe didn't have classes together. But I've done a good bit of different things in my life. Um I was the elected tax collector for the best more cutoff. I've in my early days I've ran a drink route for a local drink company, that kind of thing. So I've got enough diversity in my background that I can usually connect with people no matter what they do for a living, I can kind of talk get them talking about that. And, you know, when people feel like they can speak freely, then they start decompressing and suddenly they're in re what we call resolution mode rather than combat mode. Let's get this thing resolved.

SPEAKER_01: 28:05

Combat mode. I love that. Judge, uh while we were in the break, we were talking about something that's really important. Is uh mediation legally binding and what happens there. Talk about that process and how it relates to you in the mediation process.

SPEAKER_03: 28:25

Mediation is legally binding if you if we actually wind up with an agreement after the mediation. Not all mediations are successful. Most, in my experience, most of them are. Um so what we do is we will write it up. Sometimes it it's not the most beautiful thing. We don't always have easy access to to our computers and and you know, it takes a while to to type it up formally the way you're gonna file it with a court, and we don't want to burn up these people's money while they're sitting there while y'all are typing necessarily. So to get the mediation done but get it get everyone bound by their agreement, we'll usually just write it out as neatly as we can on a legal pad or maybe type it up in a very basic format, just you know, ten points on a on one page on the word processor. But it's very, very important. This is a great question because it any mediator will tell you that if you if people kind are are either in agreement or really close to agreement, don't adjourn the mediation and assume that they're gonna go home and the next day be willing to sign. It's very important to get it signed while people are in agreement because what will happen is they'll go home and they'll talk to their cousin and they'll talk to their Uncle Bob and these people because they love them, it comes from a good place, but they will talk them out of it because they want them to do get better out of their divorce. And everybody's got a friend at work or uh somebody, you know, at the hunting club or whatever that got a better deal than this, and you're being taken for a ride. So it's important while everyone believes they've got an agreement that they can live with to go ahead and get it in writing and get signatures. Once the signatures are there, it's a binding agreement. And what will happen is that that agreement will typically be typed up in a in a more formal uh way before it's sent to the court. Sometimes I have seen lawyers just send the handwritten agreement to the court. But either way, it's signed, so it is binding. So assuming it's an original divorce case, the judge will enter an order, a decree of divorce, and it will say in that decree that the agreement of the parties attached to here to is incorporated into this decree. So now that thing that you wrote out on a legal pad or the cleaned up version of it has the effect uh of a of an actual court order, because it is a court order, and it's something that if you don't follow, you could wind up being, you know, h held in contempt. So what you do at mediation is binding. That's that's the answer.

unknown: 31:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 31:17

Another part of that is is you being the mediator, both parties have to sign uh a piece of paper saying that they understand that whatever happens if it falls apart, that you cannot be called to testify or anything like that as part of the process.

unknown: 31:33

Talk about that.

SPEAKER_03: 31:34

Absolutely. The law in Alabama uh is that mediators can't be called in as witnesses in the trial and part of that is because the courts want people to speak in good faith and they want them to make good offers at mediation because everybody, you know, it's really good for everybody when the case can settle, and the judges want cases to settle. Um, you know, they have a lot to do and they need they need some relief from their heavy dockets. So that's why, in my opinion, why that rule exists, that they want you making as good an offer as you can find it in your heart to make on that day without being afraid that if I offer to let you have custody of the of the pit bull, going back to the pets, that you're gonna get to court. It's the case doesn't say it doesn't settle at mediation, you're gonna go to court and at trial someone's gonna say, well, why won't he just give me the pit bull? Because he promised in mediation to give me the pit bull. We we've asked the mediator to come testify, and the court doesn't want you to beat each other over the head with a good because the other side made a good faith gesture at the mediation.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

Uh talking with Judge Eddie Vines about mediation today. Um I was we were talking during the break. So the three biggest things that I think about generally in my cases are with the opposing counsel when we're picking a mediator. And these are the big three things. One is the cost of the mediator. Two is is this mediator um how the sense of that judge in that county is that a fair way to say it? Or how that judge might rule on a particular issue, whether it's assets custody or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 33:37

And then three, the issue might be let's just say I have the man, and I know that he has a strong personality, and I know that he's not gonna accept a female mediator telling him sometimes you have to cram down some of the last things at the end, right? I mean it gets that way. Honestly. I'm like, do you want to go to a trial where we've been here six hours, we're fighting over just a couple loose ends, at the end of the day, you're you're saving money by getting this out with. So sometimes, honestly, Judge, if I know I have a really strong man that has a really strong personality, I say, I need a male mediator. He's got to hear it from a male voice. He's not gonna accept a meet a female telling him what he's going to do in a case, right?

SPEAKER_02: 34:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 34:31

And and you hear that all the time, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

And and so those are three big things to think about. Something that most people don't understand out there, mediators have charge by the hour just like lawyers. Uh I've never had a case where I had a client say, Well, I want you to pick them because they're more. Um there are some mediators that charge more than others, right? Um but pound for pound, dollar for dollar, you're as good as anybody I've ever done mediation with. And I've probably did I think I probably did 25 mediations last year. I think I only saw you twice. I think I can't remember now. But um but some people that's a factor and and whether or not the people can afford that, right? The cost of the mediation.

SPEAKER_03: 35:28

Oh, absolutely. And as you said earlier, you know, some judges are ordering it and you don't have a choice, so that's another expense you need to prepare for if you think you're going to uh file a divorce case. Um a lot of judges are using that as a tool to help them clear up their backlogs uh uh of their dockets. So yeah, cost can be a factor, and I try to keep mine very reasonable, partly because I enjoy doing it. I want to encourage more people to to come mediate rather than beat each other up in court and make it to where they can't co-parent, and that now they've got such hard feelings it's affecting the children. I just am a big believer in mediation.

SPEAKER_01: 36:11

Yeah. And you buy you buy lunch too if we go past one o'clock.

SPEAKER_03: 36:16

Well, I have I have found that you can't settle a case if everybody's hangry. So hungry and angry. So uh yeah, that's just standard. I always buy lunch for everybody. It I I believe it does keep people in a better frame of mind and and certain energy level.

SPEAKER_01: 36:33

Hey Judge, I I want to tell you a quick story. So, you know, when I got out of law school, I did a lot of different things because you're learning what you like to do, what you don't want to do, and you're you know, you're trying to put food on the table to feed your family. Anyway, so I had this mediation one time at what we call big law law firm downtown. Right. And honest to goodness, a retired Supreme Court justice was the mediator. Imagine what he charges by the hour. And we were there three days mediating this case. It was a business case. Wow. And I remember some law school professor telling me one time when you go to mediation, he said, do not go in the room and start eating the candy that they've put out on the table because what they're trying to do is get you on a sugar high to get you to settle. So, Judge, I went to this conference room at this ivory tower down here. Honest to goodness, there was a tray of donuts and sugar sweets on the table. And I said, Don't touch a thing. Just turn your head. I said, Don't look at them. And so when they came back in the afternoon, they said, You you guys don't want any donuts? Y'all don't want any sugar. I said, Nope, don't want nothing. We sat there for three days, Judge, to settle that case. Wow. But um I'll never forget that story from law school. Uh there was a professor that talked about mediation, and and when I walked into the room and I saw the tray of donuts, I said, No, don't eat the sugar. They want to get you on a sugar high to get you out of here.

SPEAKER_03: 38:07

That's interesting. That's very interesting. You said it took three days. Maybe it's because nobody ate the donut, do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 38:13

It took three days because there were 12 shareholders. It was a shareholder lawsuit, and we had 12 shareholders. So honest to goodness, we probably had 26 lawyers in this building. Oh, wow. And so you're going from room to room to room to room to room. Imagine how long that takes. So it takes four hours, six hours just to do one time, one lap around. Oh wow. And so it just it was monotonous. But um, but you know, I knew I knew that that case could settle, and everybody knew that we had to do that because if we'd gone to trial, everybody would have lost out. So everybody had to give and take there. Something I really want you to talk about for a minute mediation. To me, when I hear the word mediation, I always tell my client is you have to meet in the middle. There has to be some give and take. Talk about that for a second.

SPEAKER_03: 39:09

Well, um I I think the middle is kind of in theory, but there's always some give and take. Um what I tell folks is that no one ever does cartwheels to the car after a mediation. Nobody gets uh you know everything they want, the the moon and the stars and the the lucky clovers and all that stuff. For one to be successful, there has to be some give and take. If if one side was willing to give you everything, then you wouldn't be here. Yeah. So there has to be some compromise. It's inherent in the process. Um in order to get a case settled, there has to be some compromise, uh, and that's in in every single mediation I've ever been in.

SPEAKER_01: 39:50

And I've had cases with you, and you know what I'm about to say here. Sometimes it helps where one spouse is in more of a better financial position than the other, and the way to settle the case is that's I say, well, go tell them to pay for the mediation, my half of the cost to get out of this. And they're buying their way out of a litigation case and they'll say, Absolutely, I'll pay for the mediation. Just get me out of here. Get it get it signed.

SPEAKER_03: 40:18

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01: 40:18

100%.

SPEAKER_03: 40:19

And even though that's not that much money in the big scheme of things, the person who is being told, hey, the other side will pay for the mediation, they perceive that as a gesture. You know, it it's something they feel like they have gained in the process, and it can make a big difference, particularly if you're close. You know, that usually comes up when you're within a gnat's breadth of having it settled, and one person will say, Well, look, if if the other side will go along with this, just tell them I'll pay for the mediation, they don't have to worry about it. And that's that's a great gesture, timed right.

SPEAKER_01: 40:51

Yeah. And that usually comes at about the fourth, fifth, sixth hour when we've been there all day and everybody's ready to get out of there. That's right. All right. Talking with Judge Eddie Vines. Judge, um, I want to talk about two other things that are really important to you that I respect you for a lot. Talk a little bit about uh your missionary work, because I know that's I know it's really important to you. Talk about that for a minute, sir.

SPEAKER_03: 41:17

Um After I left the courthouse, I had already started seminary. I'm a Baptist, uh, an ordained minister in uh at this point, and uh I began studying at seminary in New Orleans, distance learning. I didn't go down there much, but um I got a master's degree in a theological topic, but uh I don't even know if Joe knows this story, but I got in an argument with a telemarketer who was calling from India, and uh I I was in a situation where I was really not having a good day. I'm a little ashamed of it, and I was kind of rude to him. And at some point he mentioned that he was also a Baptist, and then I felt so ashamed of myself, I said, okay, well I'm sorry that I've been kind of rude, but let let me let's have a real talk now. So we started talking, and he told me that he was from the northeast of India on the border of Myanmar, and uh they have such a heroin problem because Myanmar produces such a high grade of heroin that there's a lot of orphans up there. The young people will uh the young adults will get addicted to heroin, they'll have overdoses or they'll pass uh uh drug uh they pass STDs and AIDS and things back and forth by intravenous intravenous drug use. And after we've been talking occasionally for about twelve years, I decided I said, Look, I'm just gonna come over there and visit you and your family and meet y'all in person. Um I had been already doing enough uh overseas mission work that I was very comfortable with doing that. And we went up to where his family was from in the uh northeast and saw these orphans, and the next thing you know, my board, I just asked them, you know, would they consider starting a small orphanage in India and being great hearted people? They said they said absolutely. So um that's been going on for a few years. There's a lot of violence in the area because there's a lot of different tribes that are not Indians actually, they're different. The tribes I work with are called the Naga tribes. Their ancestors came down from India centuries ago. They they're Chinese ethnically, and there are a lot of different tribes of that sort there. And uh even as we speak, I was looking yesterday at at a video of fighting that was going on between tribes on the road between the airport and the orphanage. So kind of watching that, planning to hopefully go back in the fall, but we'll have to keep our eye on that. Okay. When's the last time you you're over there? It's been about a year and a half. Um Uh my brother in law is a pastor and he went over with me and uh we had a a great time but uh last year uh didn't go because of different problems that were going on over there. So we're hoping and praying that this year it will clear up so that we can go. And we're also trying to bring our director from over there who's local here this spring to to meet with some of the churches that support our work. Uh they're very excited at the prospect of getting to meet her in person finally.

SPEAKER_01: 44:31

So when you go, how long do you usually stay for a trip like that?

SPEAKER_03: 44:35

Uh this time I typically stay about ten days. This time probably about twelve um because you always feel like it hadn't been quite long enough when you leave. But it's such a grueling long flight to get there and back. You you burn about three full days just in the travel.

SPEAKER_01: 44:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 44:54

And and you fight you feel like you're just kind of starting to get in the rhythm of the ministry work and it's time to get back on a plane and come home. So looking at about twelve this time.

SPEAKER_01: 45:04

When you go on one of those trips and you come back, do you always come back and you have a different view of coming back to Birmingham as opposed to being in like a third world?

SPEAKER_03: 45:19

Oh, a hundred percent. I I refer to it as re-entering the atmosphere, kind of like the astronauts used to do, you know. It's very much a shock to your system. Um India, I've been to a lot of countries doing mission work and some on just tourism, but India is more different and more dysfunctional than anywhere I've ever been. The poverty is worse than anything I've ever seen. And when I come back, it's just hard to believe these two places exist on the same planet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:48

All right. Last thing I want to talk about. Let's talk about your newsletter that you send out by email. Talk about that.

SPEAKER_03: 45:55

Well, uh I I do a little newsletter. I call it Mediation Moment, where I send out to the lawyers. It's really a pretty short list. I send it to probably 40 lawyers, ones that I kind of know. You mean I'm I'm only one of 40 that get this. Yeah, you hope you feel special. I do now. I thought Okay. Go ahead. Trevor Burrus, Jr. It's just got some tips in there, things like we've talked about today. You know, how to prepare your client for mediation to get the best results, uh uh different strategies to be thinking about while we're mediating. You know, does your client need a break? Sometimes I've you know I've had that make the difference. People get very fatigued and exhausted after they've been in this process for a few hours and their emotional processes. I had someone one day I just suggested, why don't you go walk outside? The the building where I mediate's got a beautiful little pond and some benches out there. Why don't you take a break, go get some fresh air? And they came back in and we settled. Those are the type things that I try to encourage lawyers to be to be um conscious of. And also, I mean, if I'm being honest, it it it reminds y'all that I'm there. You know, next time y'all need a mediator, there's there's a lot of good mediators in Birmingham. And, you know, I I I want y'all to think of me when it makes sense. Like you said, if you're if you've got a case in Bibb County, you know, maybe, or Walker say Walker County, you know, I don't know how the judges think up there. Uh so a local person to Walker County might be a better choice, but I I like for y'all to remember that I'm out here somewhere.

SPEAKER_01: 47:33

Oh, you do a great job at it. Uh we have spent the first hour today speaking with Judge Eddie Vines. Uh he was a divorce judge out in Bessemer. Uh he he left the bench, he started doing mediation. He does a great job at mediation. And I'm not saying that because he's sitting here. I'm saying that because I've got to watch him a couple of times. I've got to work with him. He is very um relatable, he's disarming, and he does a great job at what he does. All right, Judge, we got about a minute and a half left. What would you like to share with people out there that are about to go through this or are going through this right now?

SPEAKER_03: 48:13

I would just share with you, I would encourage you, as I've said, I'm a minister, and I've actually had people reconcile at mediation, and I I I try to always ask that question. Is mediation, I mean, is reconciliation even a possibility? And I have been surprised at the people that would say, well, you know, I think it's worth thinking about, or uh, you know, it it is possible, maybe if we got some counseling. Now this doesn't happen often, but I have had a few couples reconcile or say, let's try counseling before we go forward with a divorce. So I would say my best advice to you is try to be really careful to uh in who you marry as much as you can. We can't know people a hundred percent, you know, uh when we're dating, but be as careful as you can and then try your best to and here's a little Valentine's Day uh message, I guess. Try your best, like scripture says, to put the other one first. You're much less likely to wind up in divorce court if you put the other one first. What we see in divorce mediation is most of the time is people trying to get the most they can get and uh upset that they didn't get what they thought they needed out of the marriage when the biblical model is to put each other first. Um so I guess that's the best thing I can leave you with and uh uh tomorrow's Valentine's Day, but I didn't prepare that for a Valentine message, but it kind of goes along with it. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 49:50

All right, folks. Uh you had a wonderful uh interview today from somebody that does mediation here almost every week of the month, I guess. Sure. And he's one of the best, Judge Eddie Vines. If you need a mediator, this is somebody, if you're going through a divorce, ask your lawyer. Can we use Judge Eddie Vines? He'll do you a good job, and he's very reasonable in his rates, and he's very good at getting cases settled. He's good at what he does. We'll be back after the break. Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 50:41

Go in if you need after this legal help after we can go in the last dot. Go with that after this way for news and weapons. Your legal questions and help you need. You're listening to the legal logo with your lawyer. Going to love, go in from has more than twenty years experience fighting for his clients here in the state of Alabama. Go to his criminal defense and family large. You don't have to face your legal into the Go England on your side. You can always win go.com and a window private consultation.

SPEAKER_01: 51:45

We're back to the second there.5 FM here in Birmingham. We're also on up in Huntsville, WBHP 102.5, and Tuscaloosa, WRTR 105.9 in Tuscaloosa. Welcome to the show. It's Valentine Days, folks. We made it. We're halfway through February. We're about to change time back again. Thank goodness. We're almost to springtime. I can feel it. Uh we welcome you to listen to our show, listen to our podcast. Please download, share it with your friends. As always, tell us what you want to hear. We want to bring good guests to you. Uh, our guest next week is someone else that's running for the attorney general's office. Her name is Katherine Robertson. She is working in the AG's office now, and she will be with us in the studio. There are actually three people running on the Republican side of the ticket for the AG's office. We had Pam Casey a few weeks ago. Katherine Robertson will be with us next week. We look forward to having her with us and sharing her thoughts and visions of what she would like to do if she were to win. Okay, so if you have an app on your phone, the iHeart app, click on that. If you have any questions or comments you want to get to the show, that's the Spy for Rent Hotline. Spy for Rent Hotline. Jeff Hammett, Corey Fuller are the names to know if you need an investigator in the state of Alabama. They can serve papers, they can do forensic cell phone searches on cell phones, they can do investigations if your spouse is cheating on you. They can do bug sweeps on your home. And yes, we've done a few of those as well for some of my clients over the time. So spy for rent are the people to know. We had a good week this week. I had a jury trial set for Monday, got over there, ready to strike a jury. The DA said, we're gonna dismiss the case. I said, When did you decide to s dismiss the case? Could you have told me before I got here? Because I had to rearrange my entire schedule. Maybe I could have gone got something else still on the calendar for the week. Luckily, I got really luckily uh Tuesday morning. We got things back on track. Uh we took care of Wednesday, we took care of Thursday, and I took care of uh Friday morning as well. So it wasn't a total bomb this week. So there you go. My office represents people in the state of Alabama for criminal cases as well. We represent people in municipal court, and those are primarily misdemeanors. Either the UIs, domestic violence, possession of marijuana second, those are typical municipal court cases. We represent people in state feder uh state uh courts houses all over the state, and those are primary felonies. Everything from manslaughter to theft of property, robbery, you name it, if it's a criminal case, we represent folks in federal court as well for federal cases. I picked up a new federal court case Wednesday and was in federal court yesterday at 10 a.m. Didn't know anything about the case, but I was there for the arraignment. So there you go. We also represent people that have license defense issues. Whether you are a doctor or a pharmacist, pharmacy tech, nurse, nurse practitioner, uh dentist, dental assistants, dental hygienist. Any professional board in the state, we can represent you if you have a charge made against your license in the state of Alabama. Um that's a little bit about us. We want to thank Judge Eddie Vines for being on the show this morning. He was very good. He gave really good advice about mediation. Uh I have clients all the time in divorce cases when the order comes in from the court and it says, You shall go to mediation, they pick up the phone or they email me immediately and they say, Why do I have to go to mediation? Well, the judge ordered us to do it, and sometimes it'll save you some money in litigation. That's why we're gonna do it. And some people come in and they're real rigid and they don't want to be there, and the case settles. And then I have cases where I think they're gonna settle at mediation, and we sit there all day and they don't. And then we have to go see the judge and let a judge work it out for us. So that's what mediation's all about. Legal news this week. Nationally, couldn't find much to talk about except a couple stories, but I want to talk about this week because we talk about divorce a lot. Saw this really good article. Quiet divorce is sneaking up on older couples. This is just another term of art for what I have uh called the gray divorce. Gray divorce. Joe, what is that? Well, here's what happens. These two people get along, they're not explosive, they don't have arguments, there's not betrayals. They get along, they live together, they just quit communicating. And it happens over time. Uh they become partners, they become roommates for all intents and purposes, if you will. Um they they may even still share the marital bed, but they may not be sexually intimate anymore. They're just roommates, they're just getting along, doing their own thing, into their own their own world. And with the technology we have today with cell phones, everybody's looking at their phone. Even in even when they're sitting on the sofa looking at the TV, they're looking at their phones. I don't know why. And there's a term for this. It's called quiet quitting. Like when you when you've lost interest in your job and you haven't really quit yet, you're just you're just kind of backing out slowly, right? You're not you're maybe not really interested in going to the staff meeting. You're not interested in meeting goals or meeting your marks or meeting your margins for your bonus. You're just kind of there. You just you're just showing up, you're you're part of the team, but you're not really into it anymore. Quiet quitting your marriage is what this is as well. You're not beating your chest, you're not really saying what's going on, but you you've checked out. One of the first red flags that you'll see is that not only are they roommates, they've they've just quit communicating, they uh they don't know their spouse anymore. You you come in the room and you could say the craziest thing you could ever think of, and your spouse doesn't hear one word you just said. That's when you know that your spouse has checked out on you. When you can come in and say whatever you just said, and they there's no response. That's how you check to see if your spouse has tuned you out for good. And I always think of the show Everybody Loves Raymond. He used to have this little gig on there that he would make comments to his wife, to his buddies, and she would ignore him because Ray was just a goof, right? And so there was this one episode, he said, Let's see if I can get by with calling her a smelly tramp. And he did it. But she picked up on it. And she said, You call me a smelly tramp? That was the whole part of the of the uh show. But anyway, so if you imagine going home to your spouse and you say the worst thing you can imagine, and they don't hear you, that means they're gone, dude. That means you need to go see a marriage counselor. I'm just telling you. Um, so there's a trend in gray divorces now. I'm seeing more of those than I've ever seen in the last five years. Um, we've we talk about it a lot. Um conversation. Typically speaking, men on average are more likely to withdraw or avoid emotional confrontation. Um men just don't talk about their feelings much. Women want to talk about their feelings. This is how we talk about men are from Mars and women are from Venus or whichever way it goes in that book. We're just different people. Boredom is a big contributor. Uh the passion has faded in the marriage. You've been with them for probably 15 to 20 years. Um you know the person. You just you're just roommates. You you add into the mix here of social media comparisons and what people see online, or you're you're looking at an AI image of a model, and then you look at your spouse and you go, Well, what happened to my spouse? Well, you're not looking at reality. Uh I had a preacher one time tell me that when you get to that stage that you are really depressed and you need to go do some soul searching because you're looking at fantasy instead of reality. What are the consequences of the what we call this quiet quitting divorce stage? Well, divorces have declined since the 1980s. In 1980, believe it or not, uh the rate for divorce was approximately 22%, 22 for every thousand married women that filed for divorce. Uh that number fell down to 20 per thousand in 2008, according to the Pew Research Center, uh, and has since even fallen further. Fourteen point four per thousand divorces, marriages and in divorce. Not sure if that's true here here in Alabama. But divorces have really been up for me this year. I think we've already filed 15, and we're in the sixth week of the year, so that's more than two weeks. There you go. Uh and gray divorce I attribute to a number of factors. One, we have both spouses probably working now. Uh women are higher educated, women have higher paying jobs, so they're not trapped that they have to stay in the marriage anymore. They feel like they can leave the marriage and still have a life so they can go. Maybe they raise the children, children gone off to college, now it's their time, so they go. Um it's just something I'm seeing a trend in. Oh, by the way, we talked about this a couple weeks ago. There is a new uh term out there. Uh a lot of my female clients, when they get a divorce now, they have what's called a divorce party. They get in a group and they go to Las Vegas. Their girlfriends take them on a weekend. It's kind of like a blowout. I had a client last year, she said, Joe, let me know as soon as the divorce papers come in. We're going to Vegas. Really? Yeah, we're going. Called her. I said, You're divorced today. She said, I'm packing my bags, we're going next week into Vegas. So there you go. She was off and gone. Something to think about there. So, uh one case that's in the news nationally this week. A federal appeals court upholds Trump mass detention policy for illegal immigrants. This is a case that was decided out of the Fifth Circuit. Uh the Fifth Circuit is what we call the heartland of America, folks. Um it's the states right there in the middle above the Southeast. Can't name them all right now, this time of the day in the morning, but we call it the Heartland of America. And so they voted Trump's way, and so there you go, his uh mass deportion, mass deport detention policy can stand for illegal immigrants. Um just some commentary on this opinion. Uh it is believed that this case will be taken up with some other cases in other circuits and will make its way to the Supreme Court. That usually happens in these type of situations. Uh that would be what we call a constitutional challenge. Um by the way, the the panel that heard this, there were three uh appellate judges that heard this. And of the three judges, one was appointed by Reagan. If you can believe somebody from Reagan is still on the federal bench, think about that. That means they've been on the bench for over 45 years. Judge Edith Jones was on the panel. There was a uh Trump appointee on the panel, and then the third. Third judge who was the dissenting judge was Judge Dana Douglas, uh a Biden appointee. Go figure there. Not much harder, not much to see us uh miss there as far as the vote two to one. So um that case will probably work its way through the appellate courts. We talked a few weeks ago about California and all the billionaires leaving, right? About the tax coming in, I think it's in 27, the 5% tax. Guess who just left California? Zuckerberg. Facebook. You know he's a greedy man. You know he loves a dollar. You know he started Facebook. He was in Harvard. The the Twinkle Voss twins came to him and said, Hey, we want to start this little thing called Facebook. And he puts them off and buys his time, he creates the company, and then he leaves them in the dark. You you think he's not worried about a dollar? Zuckerberg has left California for Florida. Not just Florida. He goes where the ultra-rich live. And if you don't know where I'm talking about, I'm talking about Indian Creek. Joe, what is Indian Creek? Well, Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump live there. Mark Bezos lives there. Um it's it's it's a little island off of the Miami coast, let's put it that way. If you want to talk having about your own backyard, you really have your own backyard here in this scenario. You just can't walk in and buy a place. Uh Zuckerberg got his from a buddy that was willing to sell him a lot there. Uh actually, it was the Jersey Mike subs owner that sold him his lot. So there you go. You gotta know somebody just to buy your way in. I believe Zuckerberg's property was roughly$200 million. It's chunk change to him, right? Chunk change. Uh just some other people that live on Indian Creek. Tom Brady, football, Carl Icon. Uh he used to be New York Wall Street guy. He was what we call liquidator. Haven't seen Carl much. He's getting kind of older, but he's sharp as attack. Carl lives there. So you you really know your neighbors there. You don't have to worry about who's moving in next door. Let's just put it like that. Anyway, California's making a mistake here, folks, because I'm gonna tell you something. Who creates jobs? Rich people or poor people are the government. Government can create jobs to an extent. But rich people that invest in property, plant, and equipment are the ones that make people have jobs that make the economy run. And if you try to run them all out of your state because you're gonna tax them to death, they're just gonna pick up and go to Florida. Where they don't have to worry about a state income tax and all that garbage. You're making a mistake. You're cutting your own throat. You're you're trying to win votes from people, and you're being short-sighted. You can't see the forest for the trees here. It's just my thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, but we shall soon find out. Uh, some great state news this week. There's a lot of legislation that's come out that's hit me this week. Man, I want to talk about this. First of all, we got to talk about, we talked about this with Pam Casey about the about the new law. Child rape is now punishable by death in Alabama. KIV signed it into law last week. We all knew it was going to happen. Uh Pam Casey was here and talked about it. She said she was absolutely for it. Couple, about four or five other states in the country have this as law now. Um, still questionable if this is not gonna get run up the flagpole over the next couple years back before the Supreme Court as a constitutional issue. Um don't know that much about that. I will say this that the law does not take effect until October 1 of 26. And you're gonna say, Joe, why are you telling me when it takes effect? So what that means is KIV has made it law, but it doesn't go into effect until October. So until somebody does this act after October of 26, you can't charge them with the new law to give them the death penalty. And so it's just gonna be a matter of time. You can't legislate what people are gonna do. People are gonna break the law no matter what the penalty is. It's it's not gonna stop anybody from doing it if that's what they're thinking. I mean, if they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it. Um, and that's a whole different story. Uh, does everybody know where Brookside is? Do you remember a couple years ago when Brookside had the issue with the police and the tow yard? And I had some clients, man. It's just a bad scene in Brookside. Anyway, typically speaking, municipalities have insurance policies. I have to imagine that Brookside did not have a very high insurance policy because it came out in the news this week that they finally settled the case. And they only settled it for$1.5 million. That's chump change for insurance money. So you have to imagine there wasn't much money there. And it was over their predatory traffic stops and things of this nature. Uh anyway, the whole court system got shut down. They had to do a complete takeover, get a new judge, new prosecutor, all that. Uh here is something that I found really interesting out of the settlement. This is this blew my mind. The plaintiff's lawyer, get this, agreed not to take a fee. Can you believe that? Now, I think that's because the settlement was so low that they felt like that the people that really needed the money needed it, and so they waived their fee. I I mean that case has been going on for about four years now from 22, and so they're not taking a dime. And I'm sure they've worked really hard, and I'm sure they've earned their attorney fees, but they decided to waive it in this case. Good for them. Kudos. You did some pro bono work, and maybe you made a difference in some people's lives up in Brookside and the people that got stopped there. So there you go. Okay, if you remember, we're gonna come back from the break in a minute. We had Matt Gentry a few weeks ago that's running for the Public Service Commission. There's been a bunch of stories in the news this week about the Public Service Commission. When I saw those and I was looking at my phone, I got livid. What the state legislature is about to do to all of us as citizens of the state, folks, you need to get on the phone. You need to call your legislatures. This is wrong. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, no matter who does it. And I am I am highly offended about this. I mean, I am irate. And I'm going to talk about it after the break because I called Matt Gentry this week. I said, hey, I said, can I get your opinion of what they're about to propose? He said, Absolutely. This is this is an unbelievable story that the Alabama legislature is about to cram down our throats. And it and they don't have your best interest in mind. I'll just say it that way. That does that tell you all you need to know about it. They do not care about you. They care about Alabama power. They care about the gas company, they care about the water company. But I don't think they care about the Alabama citizens. Let's just put it that way. So we're going to talk about that story after we come back from the break because I don't think it's good. I just want to recap. The first hour we had Judge Eddie Vines when he talked about mediation. If you want to go back and listen to that part of the podcast, it was great. Eddie Vines is one of the best mediators in central Alabama. I love to work with him. He gave you some nose nonsense practical advice if you're going through a divorce and you need a mediator. We're going to do news and weather, and then we're going to come back for the last segment for Valentine's Day, guys, and then you go out and have some fun.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:09

All right, we'll be back after the break.com. Stay tuned for more. Joe will be right back after this break for news and weapons. You are listening to the legal lowdown with Joe Ingram. Joe is a 20-year veteran of the Alabama Court specializing in criminal defense and family law. If you need a private legal consultation, email Joe at Joe Ingram Law.com. And now welcome back to the Legal Lowdown. It's Joe Ingram.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:12

All right, legal load again with Joe Ingram, your Alabama lawyer on WERC 105.5. It's Valentine's Day, folks. Final segment of the show. All right. Big story this week out of Montgomery. A few weeks ago, we had Matt Gentry, who is running for the Alabama Public Service Commission. I saw this story and I was sitting somewhere and I said, You got to be kidding me. The story was starting in 28, we are going to appoint the people that sit on the Public Service Commission. We're not going to have them elected anymore. We're just going to pick the three people. Guess how we're going to pick the three people? The governor's going to pick one, the state house is going to pick one, and then the head of the Senate is going to pick one. What does that do? That leaves you, the Alabama voter, out of picking the people that sits on the Public Service Commission. The key word here is public. You the people. They've missed something here. Couldn't believe they were going to do this. Most people don't even know what the public service commercial is. 98% of people in Alabama, John, could not tell you the three people that sit on the PSE. Or maybe even 99%, if I had to guess. I mean, you have to be a real political wonk or politics to know this kind of stuff, right? But to do this, and then we have politicians coming out. K Ivey says, I'm for it. I'll sign it. Well, she's on her way out the door. Why does she want to do this? And then Senator Tommy Toverville made a comment of some extent like, well, these are people, the politicians just looking for their next job. No, no. This is wrong. This is wrong, guys. Alabama Power and the big money and the lobbyists that push Montgomery are pushing this. And they're doing it in a way so that they can funnel money to the people that run Montgomery, which is a slush fund. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to make anybody mad here. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Anyway, that story came out. Then the next day they said, Oh, we're going to pull it back. Then the next day they came back and they said, Oh, we think we're for it. I don't they don't have a clue how to do this down there because they know that some people down there actually know what's going on and might say something about it. All I can tell you is if you are in the state of Alabama, you have a heartbeat, you care, you vote, pick up the phone, call your state representative, call your state senator, tell them, no, I do not want you appointing the PSC. Absolutely not. I don't like that. If this thing comes out, I am going to go full board on this and I'm going to fight hard for it. Because I've got some personal issues in this. When I was in college before I went to law school, I worked at Alabama Power in the corporate accounting department. I kind of know how the sausage is made. I know a little bit what I'm talking about here, guys. It's just something to think about. All right, next story. There is a bill down in the house. Prison time for deadly DUIs will double under the new law. And I think this is I think this is a good thing. The legislation is House Bill 243. It establishes the crime of manslaughter for people who cause the death of another person while driving under the influence of alcohol or a substance. It increases the penalty from a Class C felony to a Class B felony. Under a Class C felony, the penalty is one year and a day up to 10 years. For a Class C felony, the max is 20 years for a Class B felony. Actually, the Court of Criminal Appeals has written a number, numerous opinions since 2001 that they've wanted the legislature to change this law as it relates to deaths related to DUI. So I am all for this, and I know that this is going to pass easily before they break for the primaries because they want something else to run on. So that will pass in no time. And uh I think it's a good thing, and I think it's needed. The other side of this bill is a little wonky. Uh it has something to do with people that like do a hit and run, they leave the scene of an accident. It it it raises the penalty on that. Um I don't I don't know if you're drunk and you you leave the scene if you're really thinking about the penalties of oh, if I leave the scene, it's a class B felony now, as opposed to, oh, if I leave the scene, it's a class C felony. I don't think you really carry the way. People are gonna do what they're gonna do if they're gonna do something. They're not thinking about the repercussions. Oh, if I do this, the penalty's this. If I do this, the penalty's lower. They're not thinking about that. Anyway, it's gonna raise the penalty as well for people that leave the scene of an accident after uh a DUI death. Um not really sure how I feel about that. I I thought about it the last couple of days. The penalty change. But I I you know, as a practitioning lawyer, I I don't really know that matters either way to me if it's a B or C felony. I I don't I I'm neutral on this. Uh interesting case that was filed this week in federal court. A Tuscaloosa person, man, sued the sheriff of Tuscaloosa and two deputies from a 2023 traffic stop. Um I was surprised that it was filed this late in 26. I would think they are getting past the statute of limitations, but maybe there's something I don't know that I'm missing. But it just got filed this last week. Um they are claiming excessive force on behalf of the traffic officers. Um the person that filed the lawsuit, his father was close by when his son was stopped. The father is a plaintiff in the lawsuit as well. He claims he took video footage of the incident. Um you know, this goes back, I've said this so many times. When you get stopped by the police, don't argue with the police. If they tell you, show me your driver's license, show me your insurance card, show it to them. Don't fight with them about it. Don't say, Why do I have to show you my driver's license? You're only going down a bad road. It looks like you have something to hide. If the officer says, I want you to get out, I think you've been drinking and driving, I want you to take a breath test. Don't say, I don't have to get out of the car, I have to listen to you. You're just making a bad situation worse. Be a little bit more cooperative. You help yourself every time. And that's how this case kind of started. I believe the person that is the plaintiff was a young man. I believe he got a little confrontational with the police, and the police showed him who was wearing the badge that night, and that's how this thing got kicked off. And so here we are with a federal lawsuit. Um I'll tell you something. I've done three excessive forced police brutality cases in my career. I am one, one, and one. I settled one, we tried one in laws, and then the other one, we just there was nothing there. These are very tough cases to prove. And they're even harder now because officers are all wearing the um I just had a body camera. The body camera. Thank you, John. I couldn't think of the word for a second. John's so brilliant, he's sitting right there looking at me. Everybody's wearing a body cam. So it's not like it was 20 years ago. And then they have the dash cams on the police cars. Now, most people don't know this. The officer has the ability whether the camera is on or not. They actually have a choice if they want the camera on or not. And they also have the choice if they want the sound on. I have gotten videos in criminal cases where I have tape and I have no sound. And I've gotten videos where I have sound and no video. It depends on how they want you to hear the case sometimes. But for all intents and purposes, if I were an officer, I would want the body cab on if I'm doing the job correctly. And most officers are doing the job correctly, and I would want the dash cam video on as well to see what's happening at the traffic stop. So we will see how that case plays out over the couple of months. Uh sheriff had no comment. They denial the claims, they're gonna litigate this case out. We'll see how it goes. All right. So I came across some material I read this last week because of my divorce work. These are some rules to keep your family strong so you don't end up in a divorce. These are things to think about. These are really good. Especially on Valentine's Day. This is kind of like going to revival here for just a minute here, folks. Respect is preserved, even during anger. In other words, respect your mate even though you're arguing with him. Don't be disrespectful. Don't don't don't get way down in the don't bring up things 20 years ago if you're fighting over something that happened last week. Just keep it focused on that. Problems are addressed before resentment forms. That leads to unspoken issues. Um early conversations prevent emotional distance. In other words, if you're upset about something, talk about it then. Don't let it, you know, stay in you for two or three days and then bring it up four days later and your husband look at you and go, What are you talking about? Oh, you're talking about what happened last Thursday night. I thought you forgot about that. You've been mad about that for five days. See, men are bad about that. Time together is protected, not left over strong families. Um strong families have connection time. Uh they they plan dinners, they plan vacations, they plan uh date nights still with their spouses. Uh they plan when they go out to dinner. We have a rule that everybody puts their phone away. Nobody has their phone out on a table when we're out having dinner. We're there to go to have conversation. We're out there to look at our phones. If I wanted to look at my phone, I'd eat dinner by myself. Uh expectations are spoken, not assumed. You you can't you can't have assumptions. You gotta express what you want out of your marriage. Um you have to be willing to discuss things about finances. You cannot have financial secrecy. Uh it creates uh a power imbalance, it creates uh people not trusting each other, uh, it creates instability in the marriage. Uh this is big for those that have kids. Parents model behavior more than they teach rules. Rather than telling your kids how to treat each other or treat the other spouse, parents should model it to mom and dad. Something to think about there. Boundaries. Gotta have healthy boundaries when you fight, and you gotta have health, have healthy boundaries and respect each other's private time when they need it. Some people are introverted, some people are extroverted, some people need more downtime than others. Emotional safety is protected deliberately so that you don't mock or you're sarcastic towards your spouse when your spouse is being honest with you about issues that bother them. They gotta have emotional safety that they can talk to you and you're not gonna be condescending to them and say, shut up, your opinion doesn't matter anyway. I make the money in this marriage, I decide what happens. Can't do that, folks. Discipline is consistent with the children. It's not based upon emo emotional mood. In other words, if you've had a bad day and you come home and your kid made a D on their report card, you shouldn't scold them more harshly because you had a bad day at work. You gotta be always consistent in your discipline with your children. These are things to think about to keep a strong family together. That's all these are, guys, on Valentine's Day. Got to be consistent in your discipline with your children. Traditions are maintained intentionally, uh, they are rituals, they build family identity and belonging, stability. It creates an anchor for the family. Every family has special traditions. We have very special traditions about birthdays. We have very special traditions about our dog birthdays because I don't have children. We actually buy our dog a cake. We sing to our dog for their birthday. We do. And people would make fun of us. But we actually have a birthday party for our dog. We always have. Those kind of little traditions and rituals are what keep a family together. And what keeps the monotony of working 40 to 60 hours a week keep you sane and keep you happy. Rituals are important. Something else that's really important in healthy marriages: growth is supported, not controlled. Encouragement builds confidence. Control breeds resentment. In other words, you've been married for a little while. Maybe your spouse tells you, hey, I want to go take a watercolor class. Okay, I think you ought to go do that. Think you'll be something good to learn. Or maybe your spouse tells you, hey, I want to go learn how to be a pilot. I want to go to flying school, take flying lessons. Now, if you can afford that, because I think that's probably a pretty pricey hobby, but if you can do that, okay, go do it. You've earned it. You only live once, you can't take it with you. So encourage growth with your spouses. You're gonna grow old together. Learn new hobbies, learn new things as you go along. Privacy should always be respected at all ages. Um if you monitor each other, it destroys trust. And if you destroy trust, then you don't have openness. What do I mean by this? Well, rule number one you never go in a woman's purse. That'll get you in big trouble if you go in your wife's purse. Never do that. Never do that, guys. Number two, respect each other's privacy on their cell phones unless you think they're cheating. That's that's the exception there. Also, with your children, give them privacy as well in their rooms to an extent. Now you may need to put some controls on their cell phones and things like that, right? So they don't look at stuff that they shouldn't. But give them some trust. Let them show you that they can be trustworthy. Don't feel like they gotta hide things from you. That's important. Privacy is important at every age. If you fall here, this is a tough one. Repair always follows conflict. Unresolved tension hardens over time. Repair restores connection and safety. Anytime you have a fight, it takes whatever period of time to restore what was broken in the marriage. If it was a fight about the kids or it was a fight about money or a credit card or somebody wrecking a car and you come home, hey, what happened? I wrecked the car today. Oh, that's great. The deductible's$1,000, and our insurance is going to go up. And you fight about it for two days. Why did you have a car wreck? Or maybe your kids had a car wreck because they were texting on their phone while they were driving. Were you texting and driving? No, Dad, I wasn't texting and driving. Then you find out they were. So repair can take just as longer than the actual fight can. Listening matters more than being right. Being heard creates closeness. Winning arguments creates distance. I think this is probably towards men. Listening to your wife and she being heard is more important than just sitting there and being next to her. Put your phone down, listen to your spouses. You don't always have to be right in every argument. Sometimes you can just say we agree to disagree on this and call it a call it a day. Quit quit the argument about it. Appreciation is expressed, not assumed. Uh this is really key here. If your spouse does something for you that even to you may seem remedial, routine, not a big deal. Still nice to say thank you. Maybe your spouse brings you coffee on Saturday morning as a ritual. You've taken it as a habit for a long time. It's Valentine's Day. Just say, thank you for bringing my coffee today. I really appreciate it. Have a little appreciation for your spouse and what they do for you. Goes a long way. Ego. Ego is set aside for unity. Ego divides a family. Humility preserves the family. We all have egos, we have to set them aside for the unity of the family. And the last one I want to talk about is family. Family is treated as a daily responsibility. Strong families are built intentionally over time and they strengthen over the years. Your marriage is just like a plant out in the yard. You can either water it, fertilize it, watch it grow, or you can just put it in the ground and see what happens. You have to nurture your family. And that's something to think about here on Valentine's Day. See what I did today. Yes, we actually made a good point here. So we only got a couple minutes left. I want to thank everybody for listening to the show today. I want you to think about what you want to hear from us. Next week, we've got Kristen Robertson from the AG's office that's going to be with us. She's running for the Attorney General on the Republican side of the ticket. We had Pam Casey. There are three people running on the Republican side. I think we're going to get all three. Not committed at this point. We're still working through some processes. We've got some other good guests coming that are going to be running for the U.S. Senate and uh have one more big tease that's coming in a couple weeks. I can't let it out of the bag just yet. We're still working on that. And so I'm not going to give it away till we get it. So those are things to think about. You've been listening to the legal lowdown with Joe Ingram on WERC. My website is joeingramlaw.com. My phone number is 205-825-5297. 205-825-5297. If you need representation, you can call my office. You can talk to an intake specialist. You can talk to Holly or Elizabeth. They will get you in for a consultation if you need one. And uh we represent people uh from Huntsville to Birmingham to Tuscaloosa to Mobile, and even the Dothan area is still my joke. If you go back and you listen to the very first podcast a long, long time ago, you'll get the joke. Yes, if you have enough money, I'll go to Dothan. I'm just kidding. Actually, I like to go to Madison County because Madison County is where the place to be now in Alabama. Madison County is growing by leaps and bounds. Every day in the paper I read it. So uh last week I wanted to get this in and I ran out of time, so I'm going to do this really fast because we're getting close, and this is important to me. Endurance is what separates the unstoppable from the ordinary. Humans aren't the fastest. We aren't the strongest. But when it comes to endurance, we are the best when others fade. We remain the same. Principle drives us in competition. The ones who keep going push past the pain, the fatigue, the doubts are the ones who win because endurance isn't just about the body. It's about the mind. It's about refusing to stop when everything else tells you to quit. So keep moving, keep pushing, outlast everyone. That is my thought for the week. And that's my thought as a marathon runner every Saturday and Sunday when I'm out there in pain running. You've been listening to The Legal Lowdown with Joe Ingram. We always enjoy listening to the show. Give us your thoughts and comments. If you need an investigator, it costs a buy for rent. Y'all have a good week. Gotta go. Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:25

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