Roots to Revenue

How to make money on small jobs - Handyman revels all!

• Robbie Lynn • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Learn the secrets to making a living doing small jobs from "Small Job Stevie," a Belfast handyman who's turned everyday tasks into a profitable business. 

Discover how he prices his services, markets himself, and manages the physical demands of the trade. 

Get inspired by his journey from builder to developer and back again as he shares the lessons he's learned along the way. Whether you're a tradesperson or a small business owner, this video is packed with practical advice and valuable insights.

#smalljobs #handyman #jobber #smallbusiness #tradesman #makemoney #selfemployed



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Stevie:

In my early career as a builder, I was a busy fool. I thought I was the best businessman. I thought I was super. I was flat out busy. I was jobs here, jobs there, vans going, man, money flying everywhere, but I wasn't making any money. So you're buying my time, which for me makes sense. Cause it means that I have the luxury of being able to do the job properly.

Robbie:

What about you? And welcome to the Roots to Revenue podcast. This is the podcast where we talk to small business owners to find out about the challenges that they had to overcome to become a successful business. I'm

Jason:

Robbie. And I'm Matt. I'm Jason, and in today's show, we're going to be asking the question, Can you make money at small jobs?

Robbie:

Before we start any of the show, let me just tell you about today's sponsor. The channel is sponsored by Jobber. Jobber is scheduling, invoicing, and quoting software that I've used to run my own business for the last 10 years. Not only does it get me paid faster, but my customers also love it.

Jason:

Don't forget about the link www. premierlawns. link forward slash jobber, where you can get 40 percent off your first three months. And this really helps the channel. And today we have Stevie. Hi, Stevie.

Stevie:

Afternoon. Do you

Jason:

want to tell us a little about yourself?

Stevie:

I am small job Stevie. And as the name suggests, I am Stevie and I do small jobs, quite simple really. I'm not sure everyone in the building trade is known for their inventiveness and their, you know, GHC contracts and SB contracts and stuff. So I am, I, if we go backwards, I started out working as an architectural technician, a trainee, and I couldn't stick it. So I then went and worked in various builders merchants. I then. I went and worked for spacious building supply companies. At the same time, it was the 80s, you could afford to buy a house for the price of a car. I bought my first house when I was 16. But I didn't have any money to do anything. So I had to learn how to do different jobs around the house. I always had an interest in breaking things, putting them back together as a

Robbie:

child. I had an interest in breaking things. I wasn't so good at the other bit. Exactly.

Stevie:

So I, that was always had an inquisitive mind and I always wanted to know how things worked. This is of course, way before the internet as well, didn't exist back then. So it was word of mouth and chatting to people. So real forward, I have my own house, I'm working in builders merchants. And I going to be honest, I wasn't a great employee. I struggled with bosses. I struggled with doing what I was told and I always thought I knew better. So not a great, I can identify with all those as well. Not a great CV for a secure employment. And back in 1999, I decided to go out on my own and see if I could literally just replace my wage. I just wanted, I had no dreams of becoming a, massive firm or this that either. I just wanted to earn a wage and not have to deal with bosses and getting things wrong and getting shouted at and all the dramas that go with that. And then one thing led to another. I got into building extensions, renovations, doing bigger jobs, taking people on. And then I went right up to being property started to pick up at that time.

Robbie:

How many employees did you have at their type?

Stevie:

Probably again, with the building trade, you tend not to have a lot of employees. Most of them will be subbies and they'll be pretty constant. You have plumbers, joiners, electricians that come in as and when needed. But most small building firms you'll find they'll have the guy that owns it. Yep. They'll have possibly a joiner and a good skilled laborer. And between the three of them, they can manage all the bits in between the different trades. And then you'd bring in bricklayers, plasters, electricians, whatever you need. So I probably, I think the most I probably had weekly would have been about four. Yeah. Quite

Robbie:

a bit. Two vans as well. So it was, and what, so you don't have that anymore. No. Why did you stop having all that?

Stevie:

Well. A combination of a few factors. One, the global financial crisis brought me back down to earth because as a builder, then I went down to, I started to go into the development route. I started buying houses, doing them up. So I started to work less for customers and more for myself. Then I slimmed down the people that I had working for me. Then it got to the point where you didn't even need to develop properties. You could just buy them and sell them. And then you didn't need any staff. So I went in to development full time, made a lot of money, spent a lot of money, had a lot of fun, had a boat, enjoyed all that stuff. And then unfortunately, 2008, nine came knocking and that was right. Okay. What are we going to do now? I then went back to trying to be a builder and the biggest global recession we've ever had. I did this stage. I didn't have the heart really for it. And I was struggling with it. And if I'm going to be honest, I probably had some Sort of maybe a depression or or a sense of failure that

Robbie:

if all of us, if you're making money and then all of a sudden you're not making money, then you think yourself, this is my fault, even though you know that it's not. But

Stevie:

I always believed because I was a builder and I was adding value to my projects, I didn't just buy something and hope to sell it for more money. I would buy something and put it together, get planning, or I always believed that I was adding value to the projects. Thanks. And I always believed at that time that would keep me safe. If the market falls, that's okay. I'm going to get a planning application in, or I'm going to put three lots together to make a bigger lot, all that. And of course, it didn't really matter who or what you were. And also, another factor for me was I had no income. I didn't do any, I didn't have any customers. I was buying and selling and doing it myself.

Robbie:

And then all of a sudden, whenever the crash came along, there was no customers.

Stevie:

That's it. No customers, no staff, no nothing. I went back to being a builder again, in the biggest recession, and it was extremely difficult. And I think it had the heart knocked out of me, if I'm going to be honest. I think it was a challenge. I think it was, I struggled with it. Looking back at hindsight, no, I definitely, there was some sort of a, I don't know if it's a depression or some, there's certainly some impact on my mental health in those days. Is that whenever you

Robbie:

decided that we'll start doing smaller jobs and not have the worry?

Stevie:

It wasn't just, it wasn't a straightforward one after the other. I tried a load of different things. I tried to be a builder and I was getting a bit of insurance work and it was okay. Did

Robbie:

you ever think about going back to being employed by someone else, Stevie, at that stage?

Stevie:

I think about it every January, normally, whenever things are quiet. The tax bills are due. And I think, I need a job. But then, my friends will joke with me, and they will say that you wouldn't last until lunchtime. You know, someone's going to tell me to do something. I'm not going to like it, and I'm not going to do it. I think that ship has sailed. I probably, I was unemployable 25 years ago. I only got worse. I've only got worse, more grumpy and more determined to do my own thing. So I then I floated, I floated about my wife then started a business too. She was involved in the property business. She started a cleaning company, which she ran successfully for 10 years. And I tried to support and help her with that. I would have done the sales calls, I would have got a new business, I would have went out and about, wrapped doors and talked to people and what have you and sort of kept busy and I think I'd try to stay away from the building shit for a while. Then around about 2016 17, not entirely clear when, I came up with the idea, well I know how to do joinery, I know how to do basic electrical, basic plumbing, I know how to do tiling, I know how to do all these jobs around residential houses. Why don't I just go back to where it all started? And then that, that's where it was born really. I thought I'll just go back and if I can pay my mortgage and put food on the table and that would keep me happy. I didn't need, I didn't need a lot.

Robbie:

And a lot of viewers that have just clicked on to watch this video, they're going to want to know, can you make money at small jobs? Yeah.

Stevie:

Well, yes was the short answer. I think you can.

Robbie:

You must have, you've been doing it for the last seven years. So hopefully you're going to give us some of your tips and the behind it. Yes. Like how do you advertise yourself whenever you're?

Stevie:

Well, I would be quite active on Google. And by no means a social media expert or an online expert, but I do try my best. I would be quite active on Google. I have like 80 odd five star reviews. The next guy in my category maybe has 10 or 11, something like that. I post on the Google.

Robbie:

Would you ask for a review after you finished every job?

Stevie:

I send people a link, mostly send them a link to my review page. And if they want to, if they have the time, if they feel that it deserves it, then they'll go and leave me a review. So I'd be quite active there. So.

Robbie:

Do you pay for, do you pay for any advertising? I don't

Stevie:

pay for any advertising. I used to advertise in the local shopper, which is a Belfast paper. And it's a, it's like an

Robbie:

ad it's it's like an ad for free. Yeah. The shopkeeper pays or the tradesman pays for an advert. Yeah. It's done

Stevie:

by postcode. So it's relative to your, it'd be three or four postcodes in and around you.

Robbie:

I tend to go out because I used to advertise in the, in something similar and tend to go out to 16 or 17,000 homes. Yes. In around that.

Stevie:

Well, that was always good for the people that weren't internet savvy. There's always someone that's gonna keep that in a drawer.

Jason:

Yep.

Stevie:

And where that works for people, I think is, I'll stick it in a drawer and I know where that is, if I need it. I think the mistake a lot of small businesses make is they think that, oh, I'll go and advertise once or twice in this local paper, whatever. And the, and they'll come, the leads will come flying in. It doesn't work like that. You need to, it's a slow build up. People have to be aware of you. They have to see you. They have to know where to find you when they need you. And you can only do that by consistently doing that.

Robbie:

Seven, they reckon about seven times. Somebody needs to see an advert or see your name seven times a lot of time before they'll even go, Oh, I remember that. But before it registers that. I remember

Stevie:

that. Well, I was doing local shopping for quite a while. And then I suppose like everyone COVID had a massive impact, that didn't happen and everything. And then I never really got back in to the habit. But, I suppose even sort of people that aren't that savvy, internet savvy still will get a phone out and do a Google search. And if you Google search handyman in Belfast and only Belfast, cause I don't travel. How far do you travel? I'm lucky enough to be in the position that I don't want

Robbie:

to give yourself a wee plug. What part of what parts of Belfast do you cover?

Stevie:

Just the greater Belfast area. I really just, I do North, South, East and West, but I don't. leave Belfast, which is a bit of a standing joke with my friends. I tend not to travel, I won't go to Newtonards or Cumber or Banger all the times. And I don't I don't need to ultimately. I'm, I have the luxury of having enough work that I can afford to just work realistically from probably about a three mile radius. And because I live in Belfast, obviously the density of population lends itself. The further out in the country you live, then the more. Obviously

Jason:

traveling between each job,

Robbie:

Even with me, even with my own work, we carry it for my peers that don't know what I carry out lawn treatments day to day. And we just really target Belfast and that's just really where we work and then just push slightly out from Belfast because it's nice if you have that density, then you don't have to go traveling, you're not paying those unbillable hours to,

Stevie:

yeah, that's also the problem for me because I'm only going to get paid when I'm in someone's house working. I don't get paid to drive there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry,

Robbie:

go

Stevie:

ahead. So I would book my jobs in geographically in parts of Belfast. I would cover maybe Dundonald one day, maybe North Belfast another day, maybe South Belfast another day. So because it's low valuing, I don't travel, I don't spend my day traveling about.

Robbie:

How far in advance would you book work in?

Stevie:

That really just depends on the volume of calls that I get. Someone calls me today. I have a look later on today when I finish work. I'll have a look at the diary and I'll see the next time. If you called me from Glen Gormley, I'd look at the next time I would be in Glen Gormley and then I would usually book them in that way. So it can be, sometimes if you're lucky, I could be in your area the next day and I've maybe, I know I could do that at the end. It could be two or three days. Alternatively, it could be maybe two weeks.

Robbie:

The most people that come on the podcast aren't really that happy about talking about their prices, but your prices are pretty clearly labeled on yours. And it's an important part of, of the podcast. Yes. Can your how do you make money at small jobs? So tell the viewers just how that works and how you.

Stevie:

Well, I, I charge 60 pounds for the first hour and then 30 pounds per hour after that. So you're buying my time, which for me makes sense because it means that I have the luxury of being able to do the job properly. I haven't underpriced a job. I'm not panicking because I'm not making any money and I want to get away from the job. So if a job takes me one hour, you pay for one hour. If it takes me four, you pay for four. Now, obviously that doesn't suit everyone. Some people want to have a fixed price.

Jason:

Yeah.

Stevie:

But because of the nature of what I do, it's very difficult sometimes to price stuff because it's never that simple. And I'm often maybe in someone's house doing a bit of joinery, doing a bit of basic DIY hanging shelves or TV brackets, or maybe I'm doing a bit of tiling. So there's always a variety of jobs as well, which is, even though I've been doing this for almost 30 years now, it's still difficult. to actually pinpoint that'll take me one, two, three hours.

Robbie:

And as well, whenever you're

Stevie:

there, people can say, Oh, can you just, that's what you think as well when you're here. That's fine. You're paying me. And I've, many of the time I have a customer say, you're one of the most patient tradesmen. And I know exactly why that is because when I'm there, I'm thinking you can change your time, your idea. So you can change your mind as much as you want because you're paying me to be here. We can stand and look at that wall for 30 minutes. That's fine. That's no problem.

Robbie:

I'm like, cause all my work's quoted, so it's in my interest to get that job done and out that door as quickly as I can. Yeah. Yeah. Within reason.

Stevie:

I came whenever I was doing bigger building work, of course that was different. It's relative to the market that I am in. When I was, whenever I was a builder. I was obviously quoting to take walls down or to do roof space conversions that had to be a fixed price. But what I do now, it, it suits well. Sometimes it's really good value. Sometimes it's the opposite for me. I think

Robbie:

I, to be honest with you in today's market, I think it is quite, it is it is very good value as well. The amount of skills that you're bringing to someone, if they were having to get two other, like, A lot of tradesmen wouldn't necessarily do or like a spark wouldn't do what a plumber does. Yes, of course. And then they're getting in, they're getting one person that can do a broad range of things instead of having to get two or three different tradesmen in and then paying two or three visits.

Stevie:

Well, it's difficult enough to get one trade into your house. I'm sure any of the viewers or anybody that's tried to get someone.

Robbie:

I recently tried to get a spark and it was as rare as hens teeth. Yeah.

Stevie:

Yeah. So I would come in and I could do, I could change your taps. I can change your light. I can hang your door. I can do those different jobs. It's one phone call. It's one person. And you're getting a multitude of things done that you've been saving up and you've been trying to find someone. But. I think as well, what I do is also a mindset. You have to have the mentality to do that. Lots of trades guys want to go to a job, get their tools out of the van, set up for the day, work all day and go home. Yeah. I could do anywhere between one and four jobs a day and I could have my plumbing tools out. I could have chop saw, I could have all the different tools out in and out of the van. So you have to have that mentality to be able to do that, I think. You know as much as the skill

Robbie:

as well. You have to be prepared to do you, you do a lot. You do a lot. You do a lot of different tasks. Yes. There's a lot of, there's a lot of different skills there. And I suppose a lot of people would say to you as well, ah, sure Stevie, it's just a way small job, I'll not take you long. Not looking to pay you too much. Yeah. That's just the way, small job.'cause I know myself, if a customer tries to set the price, you're like, hold on a second here, just calm down. Yeah.'cause they're not taking into account. the time and experience you've learned to be able to do that job. Yeah. Do you want to talk a wee bit about that?

Stevie:

Yeah, sure. Again, that, that is something that you have to be resolute. You have to be, you have to be completely convinced of your own value first and foremost. When someone says to me, Oh, I could do it myself, but I haven't got time or I could, they can't. Nine times out of 10, they don't have the skills. They don't have the tools. They don't have the confidence. They don't have the experience. It seems like everything, it seems like it's only a small job. There's a phrase, I have a pair of scissors, but it doesn't make me a hairdresser. Do you know what I mean? If you have a toilet, it doesn't mean you know how to use it. It doesn't mean that you can, you know, somebody bought you a drill for Christmas and you've never used it, it's still got the plastic on it. So you have to take value in whatever industry you're in, whatever trade or whatever.

Robbie:

A lot of people would say, sir, you're only cutting the grass. Or you're only cutting the heads. I've got a lot more. I've got a lot more. I can do that. I can be.

Stevie:

Yeah. But, you've got to take into account, you're also paying, if you go to a dentist or you go to another professional, you're paying for their skill, their knowledge. You're also paying for the experience that they know what to do when it goes wrong. And that's a big, big thing.

Robbie:

you're not judging the work you do, but you're judging them as whenever something goes wrong, putting that, put whatever it is, right. You

Stevie:

only get that with experience of breaking things. And I've been breaking things for a lifetime now. So you have to be, you have to be convinced of your own value first and foremost, and you have to not let someone devalue what you do. I have a van and it is stocked with plumbing tools, joinery tools, electrical tools. It has taken me many years and a lot of money to build up. I turn up to your house and I get in and I get the job done efficiently, quickly. And if you look at all my reviews, you can see that I do take a bit of pride in what I do. I do take maybe the slower way sometimes but I know it's the best way and the job is going to be done.

Robbie:

The fastest way and the best way don't usually go hand in hand. It's

Stevie:

that old thing, you can have good, what is it, good, cheap and with good, cheap, three of them.

Jason:

The one I know is you can have it right, you can have it now, but you can't have it right now. Right.

Stevie:

There's another phrase that'll come to me, but I think I think that you have to have the, you have to have the confidence in, in what you're bringing. If someone wants something put up on their wall, they need to have a drill. They need to have a screw gun. They need to have fixings. They need to have the confidence they're not going to hit a pipe or they're not going to hit a cable. Then they're going to have to do, and if they don't have that, they need to buy it. or they employ someone who comes in and does the job in a half an hour. But the fact that you can do that job in a half an hour doesn't mean that you're cheap. It means it's taking you 10, 15, 20 years. And it's

Robbie:

having all the tools to turn up and do it. Yes, the right tools for the right job.

Stevie:

Exactly. And having that. So I think the problem with a lot of people that think about small jobs, ah, there's no money in that. That's your fault. For not charging because it's a small job. People are sure lonely. We job actually give us 20 quid. Well, you can't run a business in 20 pounds. No, you know what I mean? The time you

Robbie:

drive, you drive,

Stevie:

you can do a favor for your mate for 20 quid and you can go buy a few beers. That's fine. If you're running a van, diesel insurance, you've got any sort of insurance. You've got any sort of a, I rent a workshop and all the other costs. I spend 30 to 40 pound a week in screw fix on screws and glues and sprays and. Things that are obviously part of my costs. 20 quid here and 20 quid there. I ain't gonna cut the mustard. No. In my travels on different jobs, there's been different guys in. And I've met other guys that have moved on to kitchen fitting or building IKEA furniture. We've had the conversation, they've said to me, I used to do what you do, but I couldn't make any money. And I always say whose fault's that then? It's not, you tell your customer how much something's going to cost. Yeah. And then they make the decision whether it's the value to them or not. So if you're telling them that it's 20 there, because you think, I'll just pop in, I'll just nip in and I'll do it. That's your, that you're the problem there.

Jason:

So how do you differentiate between a large job on a small job?

Stevie:

I suppose it depends how lazy you are. And it depends what mood I'm in. Generally my ideal day is two to three, two to three hour jobs. You get in, you get the job done and you get on to the next one. You do whenever you build up relationships with clients and customers and you get on well with them and you like them. And you are aware that they've struggled to get someone to do things. Sometimes I will take on. larger projects than what would be my ideal job. There is only me. I work on my own and I'm not as young. I'm not as fit and I am much more slower. What

Robbie:

makes you say no to a job, Stevie?

Stevie:

Hard work. If it seems like hard work. At least you're honest. If it seems like it's a lot of hard physical, I've had my days. We've filled skips, lifted steel beams, knocked walls down. Overloaded wheelbarrows. The building trades a very macho, masculine environment. When you're on site, you want to be seen to be able to lift two bags instead of one. You want to be stronger than the guy beside you. And if, if someone seemed as weak, they're going to get a lot of stick and a lot of worksite banter and stuff like that. You pay a price for that. I'm in my fifties now and I'm, I could tell you what doesn't hurt quicker than what I could. I make a noise getting out of a chair. I can't get it. I can't silently get in and out of a chair anymore because everything hurts and everything's stiff.

Robbie:

I can identify with that one, Stephen. Yeah, it happens to us all.

Stevie:

So I let the young guys, I let the younger guys do the hard physical work. We had a storm here in Belfast recently, a couple of weeks ago. And I got at least a dozen inquiries about re repairing fences and digging out, find, digging out posts and relining them. I'm not, for me, that's not happening anymore, so anything that I think I can do two, three hours, that would be my small job. But occasionally I will, like I say, if I have a relationship with a customer or if

Robbie:

a customer comes along and gives you a lot of small jobs. I've had to let my second client know that I'm not going to make it today because there's been just such an extensive list and

Stevie:

to certain extent I've been in like, new houses where people have moved in and I have went through the entire house and fitted a million different things. Sometimes my first job could be finished by half 10 and there's other times where I've had to let my second client know that I'm not going to make it today because there's been just such an extensive list. And, to a certain extent, I'm you could possibly say I'm a victim of my own success. I arrive at your house to hang your door and we're chatting and I would get asked, an electrician, I need to change that light. I go, well, I can change that light for you. Go, oh, I didn't know that. And then I'd change the light for them. And then all of a sudden one job turns into two or three. So it's still technically small jobs, but you're doing a series. You're doing a number of different smaller jobs,

Jason:

and on that, what would your ideal client be?

Stevie:

I don't know if I have an ideal client. Someone who has normal milk. Right? Because it's a bit of a buzzword nowadays, you go to people's houses. Sorry, I've only got herbal tea. I've only got this. Someone who has normal tea, proper builder's tea and normal cow milk. It doesn't need to be soya. It doesn't need to be oat. It doesn't need to be plant based, just normal milk, normal tea. I do like a cup of tea when I'm working out.

Robbie:

I'm all about a chocolate biscuit. Is that a must or? Unfortunately, I have too many chocolate biscuits. I'm trying

Stevie:

my best to, My wife keeps threatening to get me a t shirt. Do not feed the builder. And hoodie off. They can see that. So. It's a, I suppose it's an ideal job, not an ideal customer. My customers range from young 20 year olds that have just bought their first apartment to have a lovely customer in their 80s. She has more energy than me. She's better looking than me. She's younger looking than me. And she lives near Stormont and she walks up to me. which is quite a big hell for those people that don't know. It's a huge big hell. She walks about three times a week. I couldn't get halfway up without having a small stroke or a mini heart attack. So my, my customer base is very, very varied.

Jason:

I say it's not the customer you go for. It's the job

Stevie:

more than the customer really, I suppose. But get single women, single men, young men, older men, such a wide range. Couldn't say that I have a typical customer, to be honest. Typical jobs, yeah, but not typical customer.

Jason:

No, I know in business there's, it's not always success. Has there been any downfalls or

Stevie:

mistakes? I think anyone in business that says there hasn't been as a liar or they're delusional. My whole career has been a learning curve. I am still learning. Today, I am still getting better at my job. I'm also getting better at the business management side of it. And to be honest, most people that certainly in the building trade that I'm familiar with, they fall in to becoming self employed. They've maybe lost their job or the firm's went bust or something. And then they've decided, you know what, I'll take the homers into a full job. So you're not coming from a background of any business training or any understanding of how to do the boring side of the work. Most people in the trades probably didn't enjoy school, probably school wasn't the best fit for them.

Robbie:

I'm going to put my, I'm going to put my hand up that one on school me and school didn't get on at all. Correct. So

Stevie:

you then went into more of a vocational role where you're active and you're using your brain in a different way. Yeah. So I think a lot of people that are self employed and run small business do struggle with the business side of it. Because once you start employing people as well, you're no longer a gardener or an electrician, you're a manager. You're a bookkeeper, you're an accountant, you're doing all the other jobs as well. And we all lean towards the things that we find easy, and if you find it easy, you're generally good at it. I'm sure every single self employed person around December and January, tidies their house, empties out their van, does everything they can do to stop them to having to go through and do their accounts and end the year and that stuff. Procrastination.

Robbie:

I'm going to, I'm going to say come January I have the tidiest office ever. Exactly. And it's not until the

Stevie:

one minute to midnight that you press send. So. I'm always learning. I have, I was, in my early career as a builder, I was a busy fool. I thought I was the best businessman. I thought I was super, I was flat out busy. I was jobs here, jobs or vans going, man, money flying everywhere. But I wasn't making any money. Was losing money. Yeah. Then the end of the year just didn't have anything to show for because it, at the end of the week of the month, you've paid your bills, you've made your way. You wanna have, you wanna look at something and go. I've done 50 hours this week. I got, at least I've got some money to show for it. At least I feel like I'm making progress. And in those days I was under pricing stuff. I was struggling to manage the admin of the business because you're no longer really a builder. You've got all the other. And whenever you're small like that, you can't afford a bookkeeper. You can't afford someone to do all your admin for you. So you have to try and do

Robbie:

one of just one of the best bits of advice I got as being self employed and starting up. If you can't make enough Monday to Friday, nine to five, you're not charging enough. Yes. If you can't make enough in your 40 hours or 37 hours. A week, then you're not charged enough. It's a good sign. I think also the 60 hours of 70

Stevie:

hours. Yes, you're 100 percent right there. But I also think that whenever you become self employed, there is a hurdle and an obstacle of that sounds a bit dear. That sounds a bit, I'm not going to get that work. You don't have, maybe it's a confidence thing and experience thing. You don't have. You don't have the confidence to go, that job is X amount of pounds. If I don't get it, I'm not going to worry about it. So you probably go in and you're working it all out. You're going, my goodness, that job is going to be a thousand pounds. It's a lot of money. That's not a lot of work for that. And then you start to doubt yourself. And again, back in the day, when I used to price work and do bigger stuff, you'd be pressing something. There's no way I'm going to pay that. I'll maybe trim a bit off, trim a bit off. And you're trimming something off. It was already a tight job anyway. And as when you work for yourself, always has to be contingency because

Robbie:

whenever you're per, it's very easy to think that everyone else's per whenever that's not the case. Exactly. And that's whenever you price jobs too cheap, then you have to have, you have that mindset,

Stevie:

but then you have to reframe. I think you have to reframe your business and you have to sell on your quality at the sale on your service. I'm the top rated handyman on Google in the Belfast area. I will turn up when I'm supposed to. And if you look at my reviews you can see I have evidence that I will do a good job. I'll stay until the job's done and make sure it's 100%. And if it's not, I'll sort it out. To take that level of care and proficiency in your homework, you need to be paid properly for that. 100%. You don't want to go to a dentist and say, I'm coming up with two different colors.

Jason:

You

Stevie:

don't go to her dresser and he only cuts half your hair. Do you know what I mean? You need, you need to be paid for the level. And even now it's always a struggle. Am I charging enough? Is that good value? But I think what helps is once you've got the confidence is also looking at a bigger picture.

Robbie:

Would you ever do any market research into what other people are charging?

Stevie:

I've vaguely done it. The problem again, for working with yourself. You're physically doing the job. You're out every day, you're working. I start a wee bit later, never been an early riser. And then I live in among a lot of schools. If I leave the house before nine o'clock in the morning, I'm going to sit in traffic for half an hour. And the type of work that I do now, nobody needs me in their house at half seven in the morning to fix a light. Not building and not doing big stuff. So there's no rush. So I'll work a bit later. I get home, make dinner and, All of a sudden,

Robbie:

would you have a, would you have an acid test that you could, if let's say a hundred people came to you, is there a certain percentage of work that you would do? You would look to see if you're winning or losing to see if you're charging enough, like acid test, like 30%.

Stevie:

I would filter my own inquiries down and maybe lose a third straight away because It's too far away. I don't want to travel or it's too much like hard work. And I don't want to do the hard work. And then yeah, I suppose I don't monitor it enough. Again, the self employed thing and being on your own. And that's what you do. And if you're busy working, I'm going

Robbie:

to say, I'm not, I'm going to say that if you had any sort of software and you were managing, if you had any sort of software and you were managing, you might find that you might be able to track. Your jobs and what you're making and your customer base through that a bit easier.

Stevie:

Would you? I suppose it would be give me some metrics to work with at the minute. Because I get everyone to text me or what's up me, I can look back in the last week and look at my inquiries and see how many have been converted. Again, it's only me and my own.

Robbie:

And then the other thing is I suppose you've been doing it for years. So do you know what works for you and what doesn't work? You would

Stevie:

think so. You would think after doing this for 20, 30 years, I still look at a job and go, that's going to take me two hours and it takes me four hours. I was in a job the other day and it was we should be a relatively simple swap over of pop up waste and wash hand basin tabs. January, you take the washout basin off, take it all off, put it all back together. You do it in an hour or two. This was stuck onto the wall with some sort of glue. I have a million tools for a million applications. I could not get this off the wall. So therefore I am not a small chap. I'm in an on suite, which was tight. I'm lying on my back, trying to reach up. I could only get wee millimeters turns. It took me over three hours. To get that job done, which you really should have taken me an hour and a half, maybe, and this is the sort of things that you're up against day in and day out, you, and it's very hard to see that coming, because if you ask me, how long would it take you to do it, like an hour or two would be fine. I'll give you another example. I went to change taps in a house and it was quite a large house, large kitchen, and she had two sinks, two kitchen sinks. One set of taps took me, 40 minutes, the second set took me an hour and a half because I had to go into the back of a cupboard. I had to cut holes. I had to move things out. It was a completely different setup, same tops, both you would have thought would have been the same, but two completely different jobs terms of time. So I still get it wrong. I can still get it wrong. I still make mistakes. And I, like I said, I'm constantly learning. I do. I do like social media for that purpose. You can go on, you can watch podcasts, I guess, where you get information of other guys that are doing things differently. And have

Robbie:

you thought about making any reels around yourself to promote yourself?

Stevie:

I've been thinking about doing a DIY school for about three years now, and I've only got round to it. So yeah, let's give it a wee plug. So I have just started Belfast DIY school where I'm going to take six people on a Saturday morning and we're going to do an in depth course and the basic DIY for the homeowner. I'm going to cover topics like drilling holes, what tools, what fixings, what types of walls. It's going to be a hands on course, people are going to be able to try things themselves. I've got mock ups of different walls and stuff and they can see, no one's ever seen in the back, if you're not in the building trade, you've never seen the back of a stud wall and what the thing looks like and what's in behind it. So I've got all that, door handles, silicone ceiling, just all the basic stuff that I would do day and daily. But hopefully I'm not talking to myself, I'm not being too much work

Robbie:

and how do people go, how do people go ahead and how do people find out about getting

Stevie:

if you can go to Facebook and Instagram at the minute, I'm releasing information as I say, I'm doing everything. I could, if I had a social media manager, I could do it much quicker, but I'm trying my best to, I could probably

Robbie:

give you a bit of a hand with that Stevie.

Stevie:

You're hired. That was easy. I can't pay you, but you're hired. So I will be drip feeding information as and when I can. I'm hoping to start launch it. the first course at the end of March and it'll be very much customer driven. I'm going to listen to my customers and clients. I

Robbie:

imagine as well people will come in and they'll want to know different things.

Stevie:

I'm going to tailor those programs around. I think that's the difference between a school and the likes of YouTube. There's loads of videos on YouTube, how to do stuff. You can't ask a question and you can't do it yourself. There and then you come down to my, my workshops, you'll be able to do the job that I'm explaining to you and you'll be able to ask the questions to someone who, and I'm not teacher as such, I'm actively working. I'm still small job Stevie. I'm still doing my day job. So I'm encountering all the problems every day that you are possibly having in your own house.

Robbie:

I can identify that making videos about lawn care, okay. We teach and work at the same time, really. So a lot of the stuff, here's how I do it, and then just try and

Stevie:

show people. That's sort of my plan too. The original question was about social media. I'll see how the school goes and see if I can develop from that. And you don't know how these things all, I'm sure you didn't start out 20, 30 years ago thinking you're going to end up

Robbie:

being

Stevie:

on

Robbie:

YouTube, making videos. No, definitely not. I'm the influencer. I think we did a podcast the other day and I took off my hat. I took off my hat and I hadn't had my hair cut. The podcast, let's say is a bit of an interest on how hair should look. So a lot of my podcasts are just, this is how I am. And that's it.

Stevie:

There's

Robbie:

no,

Stevie:

I'm not really want to give any hair advice considering I'm a middle aged man with a full head of hair.

Robbie:

Good man. Well, listen, Stevie, very much for coming on to the podcast. And,

Stevie:

you're very welcome. It's good to be here. Jason, you too. Good man. Thank

Robbie:

you. It's a wrap. It's a wrap.