Roots to Revenue

Landscaper mowed lawns for FREE... now he has large commercial contracts

• Robbie Lynn • Season 1 • Episode 11

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From Free Lawn Care to Commercial Contracts: The Journey of Cutcrew Limited

In this episode of the Roots to Revenue podcast, hosts Robbie and Jason interview Jack Churchman, the founder of Cutcrew Limited, a commercial grounds maintenance company based in the UK. Jack shares his inspiring journey from offering free lawn care services to securing large commercial contracts, his methods for customer acquisition, and how he navigated his business through challenges like the COVID-19 pandemic. He also provides valuable insights on marketing strategies, the importance of networking, and tips for managing a growing team. Sponsored by Jobber, this episode delves into the real-life experiences of scaling a small business and maintaining quality and satisfaction in the process.

00:00 Introduction and Early Beginnings
01:06 Starting the Business: From Military to Mowing
01:47 First Customers and Free Services
04:30 Transition to Commercial Work
12:22 Networking and Business Growth
16:20 Winning Commercial Contracts
18:53 A Stressful Project Experience
19:23 Focusing on Key Areas in Business
20:21 Hiring the First Employee
20:58 Importance of Team Fit
21:31 Implementing Policies and Procedures
22:07 Managing Health and Safety
23:51 Scaling the Business
24:56 Software for Business Management
27:32 Building a Strong Team
31:40 Winning Commercial Work
32:06 Engaging on LinkedIn
33:37 YouTube Channel and Consultancy
35:20 Concluding Thoughts and Travel

Try out Jobber for FREE with a 14-day trial with your exclusive discount Root to Revenue https://go.getjobber.com/premierlawns

Jack:

I was basically posting on Facebook saying who needs help with their garden? It's free, focus on what you enjoy, perfect that and it's something you can always fall back on. Absolutely fine to add services to your portfolio, however you're always going to have that one thing that you can reliably generate profit. I'd use Sales Navigator to find out the people and add them. Wouldn't send them any corny messages or stuff like that and I'd just keep them on the back burner watching them. Half the time if you just go in there and say can I speak to the facilities manager or is there someone I can talk to about the grounds maintenance, it won't get past the filter. What about you

Robbie:

and welcome to the Roots to Revenue podcast. This is the podcast where we talk to small business owners to find out about the challenges that they've overcome to run their small business.

Jason:

I'm Robbie. I'm Jason. And in today's show, we're going to be talking about how to win commercial work.

Robbie:

Before we get into it, let me tell you about today's sponsor. The channel is sponsored by Jobber. Jobber is software that I've used for the last 10 years to run my business. It does all my scheduling, my invoicing, and my quoting. But best of all, it's free. My customers love it and it gets me paid faster.

Jack:

My name's Jack Churchman and I run Cutcrew Limited. We're a commercial grounds maintenance company. Based in Milton Keynes and Northampton in the UK.

Robbie:

Do you want to tell us a bit about how you started your business and your background and a bit about yourself.

Jack:

Yeah absolutely I'll try and give you the short story because it could be fairly long but Basically I started my career in the Military there's like elements of community work and community work was basically mowing old people's lawns for free. My dad was heavily involved in the golf course, so I'd always had a passion for fine turf and stuff like that. Yeah, and then when I left the military, I found myself in a job that I didn't enjoy and needed to find some happiness and decided to just do more of the grass cutting and turn it into a business.

Robbie:

How did you get your first customers?

Jack:

Most of the customers were really easy to manage because when I first started, obviously, it was all residential stuff and I was basically posting on Facebook saying, who needs help with their garden? It's free. As you can imagine, it generates quite a lot of leads.

Robbie:

It generates a lot of leads, but if you're advertising free work, it doesn't generate a lot of

Jack:

money. It's interesting though, because some of the free ones we got they might've been really like elderly people that were living on their own. So they've got a house in a fairly affluent area. So that's what led me to getting leaflets made. And then I'm maybe doing one on that street for free, but I also got the opportunity to leaflet drop. And we can say, oh, we're doing number so and so down the road. And they're like, oh, their garden's fantastic. So it does open doors. It wasn't like a complete loss making exercise, but I think it just gave me the taste and it just cemented in what I was doing that's what made me happy.

Robbie:

What tools were you using to start with? Did you have a van? Were you operating out the back of a car?

Jack:

So I'm fairly like, free lifestyle anyway. I like my mountain bikes and bits and bobs like that. So I had a van anyway. So I was lucky in that aspect. I had a van for like personal use anyway. But in terms of mowers, I just started off with a really cheap Honda Izzy. just a petrol mill I didn't have a role or anything like that and just basically got hold of what I could at the time and I think for the first three or four months any money that I did get just went into tools.

Robbie:

How many did the advertised launch for free? I'm sure the phone was ringing off the hook. Yeah. How many free ones did you actually have?

Jack:

I forgot to mention the part, so at this point I still had a full time job. Okay. And I was basically doing this when I finished work, and I was just, before I jumped, I wanted to 100 percent make sure that it was something I wanted to do. We had a child on the way, and I wanted to 100 percent make sure that it was what I wanted to do. It sounds really stupid, but like the financial side of it, I didn't really care about. It was more about, is this going to make me happy? And can it provide a future? But yeah, the free stuff probably only lasted about six weeks when it was like, hang on a minute, like I'm getting really busy here. We're actually getting inquiries now. So started to formulate getting a website built. And did

Robbie:

you have any pushback whenever? Cause obviously you can only do free for so long and you did free for six weeks. Whenever you decided to start charging, whenever you went to those customers, did you say, look, I'm going to have to start charging you? Or how much pushback did you get from customers? Or did they say you're not charging. We're away.

Jack:

Yeah, there was quite a few that obviously did that, but the ones that I kept were actually really good customers and they were quite happy. I remember one of the customers I said, look, I'm going to start charging. Like I can't remember what it was, but then let's just say 20 pound an hour. And they were like no, you're worth more than that. So a few of them actually. Turned into

Robbie:

proper full time customers.

Jack:

That's it. We only did residential work for about seven to eight months, but there's One for later on.

Robbie:

And so did you start to promote yourself on the Facebook groups? Did you use anything else, the leaflets? Did you design the leaflets yourself or did you pay someone to do that for you?

Jack:

So I created a little rule I'll call it the 10 up 10 down rule. If I was at a property, I would leaflet drop 10 houses up 10 houses down. If I had some spare time in between a job, maybe I'd get to the job so I'm only around the corner and just drop that area. It didn't actually take a lot of time out of my schedule to do it and it generated some decent leads.

Robbie:

I did something very similar to that myself in the early days. Always keep a load of flyers and then anytime you're working just flyer the houses around it.

Jack:

Yeah.

Robbie:

And did you only flyer them once or did you continually flyer them?

Jack:

No, I only did them once because I can imagine it'd be fairly annoying, but one thing that I did do that I've not seen a leaflet come through my door that's been done is on the back of it I would literally write on the back what it would cost them. Look around the front if I could see the back of the property as well and I'll just say just in case you're interested this is what it would be put it in that way so it eliminates the back and forth and if they're serious they're contacting you.

Robbie:

Did you find whenever you were putting the price on the flyer did you think you were getting more calls than if you hadn't of?

Jack:

The calls that I did get were already pre engaged and they were ready to buy. I think if I hadn't have done Those little notes for them. We might have had to do a little bit of negotiating in terms of areas or we don't want this doing my husband does that? Or whatever, but most of that was cleared up and they were happy with the price That's why they rang and how many customers did you have in your first year? Can you remember? Oh God, probably it wasn't so many it was probably around 30 residentials but as i said we quickly went to commercial so yeah probably 30 to 40

Robbie:

it's a bit of a jump going from domestic to commercial

Jack:

yeah

Robbie:

Your initial customers

Jack:

How did you initially bring those in? It's difficult, I can't lie. So as Covid hit, I saw that we were starting to lose customers and at this point I'd left my job, so I started to get worried. So I was like I need to change this business plan, this is what I need to do. And I think I literally just went door knocking, I did the same thing that you do for residential, just knock on all the local businesses, schools, Doctor's surgery, stuff like that. And that's how it started.

Robbie:

And what did you learn early doors? Can you give any tips about the way you spoke to people? Or the way you approached people? If you approached people in different ways, did you have different reactions from them?

Jack:

Not really. Are we allowed to swear? I quickly realized that a receptionist is like a bullshit filter. I remember the first school that I ever got, what I did is I did a little bit of background research before I actually went door knocking. I found out who the facilities manager was. And then I went into the school and I got to the filter at the front desk and said hello is so and so about yeah Let me just get him for you And then I was in front of them half the time if you just go in there and say can I speak to the facilities? manager Or is there someone I can talk to about the grounds maintenance? It won't get past the filter. So a little bit of research goes a long way.

Robbie:

How did you find out who the facilities manager was? Did you find it just on the website or?

Jack:

Yeah. So schools literally have to document it on their websites, key contacts and stuff for pupils, parents and stuff. So you just go onto a school's website, look at the key contacts and at the bottom, normally at the bottom, the facilities team would be right at the bottom with the facilities team, site manager and duty. Site mobile number.

Robbie:

whenever you started, I'm guessing that your insurance was completely different for Domestic and for commercial or did you start off what insurance did you have and how has that changed over time?

Jack:

Yeah so I actually started off even when I was doing the free stuff when I had my job I had my public liability I think that was five million at the time just because I knew that it's a blame. culture and it's not worth doing it if you've not got insurance. But in terms of commercial work, most of your commercial work is 5 million. We've now got about 10 to 15 million public liability but they're only for specific contracts. I'd say 98 percent of our work you'd only need 5 million.

Robbie:

And whenever you were first pitching the, was it schools that you first pitched the commercial work to?

Jack:

was, yeah.

Robbie:

So back then, you would have had just your domestic lawnmowers that you had for your everyday use. Whenever you, what, how many, was your first commercial one at school?

Jack:

It was. And what tools did you need for it? So I needed a ride on lawnmower. As soon as we won the contract, I went out and bought one. We actually had one large residential that The customer was really good to us. We'd had him on the books for about eight months and he owned a ride on machine. So I would go there and use his machine to cut his large acreage lawn. So he actually gave us the opportunity to borrow that for the first couple of visits until I was getting, but

Robbie:

And how did you get your first couple of machines, where did you get the money to borrow or the.

Jack:

So we've spoke about this off camera, but so within your first year as a limited company, that's the key time to get finance. In my opinion, this isn't financial advice. But yeah, so at that point there it's done on like ratios and stuff like that. You don't have any statistics. There's no loss or break even registered on company's house. They're basically you're pitching them this idea. It's down to the underwriter to accept or deny. And. My region was going through a really strange time. 95 percent of the schools were currently managed by the local council and the local council went bankrupt. So there was a massive window for opportunity for us. So I approached the lenders with that and said, look, this is what I need. This is our projected turnover. This is our projected profit Can you make it happen got a lot on those but the yeses I did get obviously enabled us to yep

Robbie:

Was that more of a finance company or a bank?

Jack:

No, sorry. So it was a broker Banks, it literally even if you're under five years limited, it's really tough covid. So we was looking at like tier two tier three lenders at the time which obviously you pay more interest for, but you just factor that in with your costings.

Robbie:

What was your first bigger tools that you bought?

Jack:

Oh God, it went from zero to a hundred real quick, really quick. So yeah, we started off with a right stander and then I ended up I think it was like three months after I bought the kit, had no work for it apart from maybe one school that coped with it just fine. But then shortly after we were getting lots of inquiries for football clubs and stuff. So I was still using the right standard, but there was just no efficiency. So I think within about another three months we'd gone out and bought our second ride on, which was a 72 inch cub cadet Z seven pro series. And then. that snowballed I think maybe three or four months after that we then got a larger machine and then about four or five months after that we bought a tractor so it literally went zero to a hundred really quick.

Robbie:

Just to go back to you're borrowing your money because that's where a lot of people are going to fall down whenever they're trying to scale their business.

Jack:

Yeah.

Robbie:

You obviously had the rate of pretty good business plan that puts the finance company.

Jack:

Yeah. Assets are fairly easy to, if you're going to the bank and asking for 40, 000 pounds for working capital, the chances are you're going to struggle at that infancy in business. But if you're going to him and say, look, I'm purchasing this asset nine times out of 10, they've got a pretty secure deal to get their money back because you'll have to pay 20 percent upfront. You'll have to pay a deposit and If I skip those payments, they're coming to take the machine away and they'll auction it. So they will find their money. So assets are a lot easier to get funding for. But you still have to work hard to write a decent plan and speak to the right people.

Robbie:

Did you go to an advisor or your council or where did you get help to do that?

Jack:

So I was really lucky. So I started going to a business networking event right at the beginning when I was just on my own and I met some really good people there. So there was a finance broker in the room, the accountant that I still use today was in the room and they just gave me solid advice,

Robbie:

something like the BMI?

Jack:

I was part of BNI for around three years and that really helped build the commercial side as well.

Robbie:

And are you still part of BNI?

Jack:

I don't have enough time.

Robbie:

What are your thoughts on BNA? Obviously it's been very good for you.

Jack:

Yeah, so B is one of those things, like some people that are in BNI are like really religious,

Robbie:

before we get too far into it. So I wanted to tell the viewers what BNI is.

Jack:

Yeah, absolutely. So BNI is a networking organization where you'll join a room every chapter, they call the rooms chapters, but every region basically has their own chapter and it's a lockout room. there'll only be say one plumber, one insurance broker, one gardener, and it's just a room where you can go and network, share contacts and gain referrals from. BNI is one of the Better ones, in my opinion as there's no competition in the room. Some networking events you can turn up and there'll be like 10 grounds maintenance companies,

Robbie:

don't know that much about b nni, but you're expected to buy from if you need an accountant and there's an accountant in the room, you're expected to use his services. And likewise, is that a,

Jack:

Probably written down. I'd say there's probably that expectation. However, you get a lot of businesses that are already a long way down the line and there's no dramas. Like the guy, one of the chaps that I was in, I already had a workwear person. So it was someone that when I left the military, they'd set up a workwear firm. And I. Use them. So I didn't use the workwear guide from BNI and there was no dramas about it. I still passed in work elsewhere I think it's more of a case of if you take from someone so say you was passing me loads of referrals But I never referred you there'd be an issue, but you don't have to go with that person

Robbie:

and Those meetings are there generally breakfast meetings. Is that right? Yeah, and what time do they usually start so normally start around 6 I suppose the thinking is Go to the networking, get your breakfast and then go on and they're not impacting your day.

Jack:

absolutely. So you'd come out of a meeting and it would only be like eight o'clock and you've still got a full day ahead of you to make some money.

Robbie:

you recommend the BNI to somebody that wants to start up breaking into commercial work or a networking group?

Jack:

I'd say definitely try it. most chapters give two, three visits, not necessarily just BNI, try other networking groups, but I definitely try networking 100%.

Robbie:

I'm going to say whenever I started, I was invited to one, but I decided it wasn't for me. But these days it might actually be more practical for me to join because I have a huge network of people now that I work with.

Jason:

somewhere you could pass your knowledge on.

Robbie:

Yeah, it's not data. It's the leads that you get, the potential. business owners that you could

Jack:

yeah some of the stories like

Robbie:

you could find really high end customers through the amount of customers that I have that Or have a high net worth.

Jason:

Yes.

Robbie:

That would potentially do business with the people in the room. Yeah. if you can connect people to Gillard and everyone does well out of it, that's the general thinking.

Jack:

I think the biggest thing that I gained from BNI was the network because when I left the military we moved to an area where I knew no one so I didn't have a network and it'd be a small thing in the infancy we also did landscaping and, Say for example, I don't know, I went through a data cable by accident or whatever. I'd have that contact. So what that means is I can go to the client and say, I've gone for your data cable. However, my mate Rob is on the way. We use him for everything is really good. Do you mind if we get it fixed for you? And then you'll go in with a solution. That Rob's not going to turn you over on the invoice. And yeah, it's just having that network behind you.

Robbie:

Sometimes things like that, you can get your treasures pulled down.

Jack:

Yeah,

Robbie:

absolutely. Your early days, you went. door knocking to win work? There's only so many doors you can knock in a day. What other ways would you recommend to find commercial work?

Jack:

Some really good methods that I've found is obviously email campaigns. So if you generate a list and send them an email. Another great way is obviously LinkedIn.

Robbie:

Before we start talking about LinkedIn, would you ever buy an email list to send the cold call or would we try to research the websites where the What sort of people do you want to work with?

Jack:

Yeah, no, I don't think I would. The only reason why I say that is because I feel like they could be outdated. And like job positions move all the time. Like some of our contracts that we've only had for two or three months, facility managers changed two or three times. So I'd rather it be live information. Not to say I wouldn't, if someone came to me and said, look, we can 100 percent verify this, we'll give you your money back. If it's not that person, then I probably would. But yeah, we've never done that.

Jason:

Going back to when you said you did so you'd email loads of different companies. Was that a generic email across all companies or would you tailor some of them to some of those needs that you knew they needed?

Jack:

nine times out of 10, we would tailor them. It's like anything in life. Like the more you put into something the more you'll get out of it. For example, one of our contracts, Primark, I did a little bit of background research about their tendering process, not only on grounds maintenance, but how they tended, say electrical works. One of the big things for them was like their biodiversity commitment. So I emailed the facilities manager and said, look, I've noticed that biodiversity is big for you. We're literally five miles away. This is what we've got in place to reduce our emissions. This is what we could do for you. So I'd already done that research and they're reading that with, okay, it's not a sales email. This guy's done research. So I would rather pick more time and get one win than hardly time to send a thousand emails and get One response.

Jason:

Do you target quite a few biodiverse companies?

Jack:

No, so it's not something like we actively press. However, it's in the back of our minds at the minute, especially with the commercial work. I know that there will be a turning point. I think as soon as the government start putting stipulations and guidelines in place I'd rather be ahead of the curve than fell behind, but it's something that we don't actively press. However, we will consult with a client and say, maybe you could turn this area, it would be good for this, or maybe like a rooftop garden or things like that.

Robbie:

you were talking about your early days, whenever you were doing a bit of landscaping, you were doing a bit of grass cutting.

Jack:

Yeah.

Robbie:

How do you decide the landscaping is not for me? Cause that's not really something you guys do. If somebody, I'm sure if a customer comes along and asks you for it, you'll do it for them.

Jack:

Quite honestly, we had one project that quickly went through. It just went wrong. So the project itself didn't go wrong. The work went fantastic. However, at the end, the people that we'd done the landscaping for literally moved out and moved to a different house. And we was in like this court battle to get our money. And it was just a really stressful time. And yeah, like the toll it took on me mentally. I just didn't want that anymore and we decided not to do it.

Robbie:

I think a lot of businesses start up and they decide we're going to do this and then you start, you do a range of jobs and then you decide for one reason or another want to do this or want to do that. Yeah. And do you think you're better just focusing on key areas instead of trying to do about everything?

Jack:

I would say so I really enjoyed the landscaping. The thing with it was, is it was a bit of a bigger beast. So we had six lads on the landscaping team and we also had lads on the grass cutting side so it was a lot more moving parts and if one of those cogs goes wrong, at all, it's a lot of money. Like if you're on a 60, 70 grand project, you could be one, one day of the lads not work and say, grab Lori doesn't turn up on time. Half a day could cost me like two grand. So yeah, I would say focus on what you enjoy. Perfect that. And it's something you can always fall back on. Absolutely fine to add services to your portfolio. However, you're always going to have that one thing that you can come back on and rely, reliably generate profit.

Jason:

Yeah. So going from your domestic to commercial, when is it you started to bring on employees?

Jack:

So it's a bit of a funny story. Actually, we had a job on, I think it was a turfing job and there was a lot of soil to move and I just thought I don't fancy doing that. So there was someone that I worked with in the job that I left they had a son and yeah, I just rang him up and was like, does he want a couple of weeks work? And it just went from there. It ended up getting quotes and he just stayed really. Yeah. And then since then, obviously we've, done the formal interviews and whatnot with new candidates and other employees.

Robbie:

tips would you give somebody that's thinking about bringing on their first employee? what do you think the key things to look for are?

Jack:

I think it's really difficult because you can go around in circles. I think in this industry, with all due respect, it's fairly easy to teach people what we do. There's obviously qualifications that they might need that you can put them through, but I think if someone's a good fit for the business and they get on with your current team, or if you don't have a team currently, if they get on with you and you feel like you can work with them, that's probably more important. I'd rather Someone I can get on with that we've got respect for each other than I've done 58 years in this industry. That's not how you do it. I'm not interested in that. Going

Robbie:

from one man to two man, what things have you put in place? Or what things have you put in place for your team like policies or how did you? What stage did you go from one man to two? Was the first one more of an apprentice?

Jack:

Yeah, so the first one I'd probably say was just more of a

Robbie:

labourer.

Jack:

He actually stayed with us for quite a long time until he moved on to higher education or whatnot. But yeah, from day dot, because of the work we were targeting, we were doing the policies, we were doing the health and safety stuff, all the stuff.

Robbie:

those boxes had to be checked?

Jack:

Yeah.

Robbie:

Did you bring in an outside agency to help you with that? Or an HR expert, or?

Jack:

I did quite a lot of like health and safety stuff when I was in the military. So I was, I'd done my initial stuff and I did pay a consultant just to look over what I'd done and he was like, Oh, who's done this for you? This is brilliant. I was like, I'm not paying them again. Yeah, and I've never had a RAM statement come back, like feedback that we've had from like fairly large corporations has been okay about them.

Robbie:

For RAMs and methods statements and what sort of policies do the Did the schools at the early doors, did they expect that? Or was that as you moved up?

Jack:

Do you know what? I've always been fairly proactive. So if we win a contract, they'll have their service level agreement given to them and all the rounds and stuff done. So we've never actually been asked for it. But I'd say probably 90 percent of our customers, if we hadn't have just straight up given to them, probably wouldn't have asked, which is pretty good. Obviously pretty bad, but yeah.

Robbie:

So you've done, you did all your method statements and your RAMs yourself?

Jack:

Yeah if you've done them before, so you used to have to do them for like range practices and stuff like that, or if you're on exercise or whatnot. Yeah, like it's fairly straightforward if you can get your head around it. But to be honest with you if you've got no experience with it at all, I think the consultant that I spoke about just a second ago, he would have only charged me 120 pound for a set of rams. And obviously once you've got that set, it's a template. Yeah. So it's better to, I'd advise, get someone that knows what they're doing to do it and then you can just template it should you need to.

Robbie:

You can find this podcast on all the major channels where you'd expect to find a podcast, the likes of Apple, Spotify, or you can watch us on

Jason:

If you know anybody that you think could benefit from this podcast, please share it with them via text or email. Or if not, if you think you could give us a review, that would really help the channel. How big do you see your business becoming? I don't know

Jack:

if i'm totally honest. I don't know if you'd ask me that even a year and a half ago I wouldn't think we are where we are now I've always said that if you've got a plan and you don't meet that plan, you can get upset. So I'm just taking it as it comes. Obviously plans in place. If I don't know, we've got a national contract on stuff. It's always on in the back of our mind, but realistically, I'd like it to be like a multi region business. However I'd rather be really good at what we do in one region than Yeah, not so great. Nearly owning,

Robbie:

nearly owning region. If anybody thinks grounds maintenance for

Jack:

concrete and you see these companies go national and they used to be really good at what they did, really high quality work, and then they lose touch with the quality and stuff. And I don't want

Jason:

that to, I suppose it's managing that quality over that size.

Jack:

Yeah. I'd rather be able to leave like a legacy for. the people that work for me, their family as well, like a good legacy rather than they were really big for not a long time. I'd rather it be around for a while.

Robbie:

What software do you use to manage your business?

Jack:

Yeah. So most of our day to day stuff is an app called service mate. The only reason why I use that is because it's got some really good tracking features. We have been helping Hubscape develop their app. But I've used ServiceMate from the start, from when I only had one client to now. As we mentioned off camera, I think moving everything could be a bit of a nightmare, but Yeah, it works well for us. And how do you find the software? Did the software help you scale from one customer to where you are now? It definitely helps manage your time. Like software is a massively intricate part of your business because if you're all over the place and you forget a quote or you forget a note about a client to take a piece of kit or don't even remind the client when you come in, stuff like that, then it can all fall apart. So it's like the backbone of any business, really.

Robbie:

Do you use any other software to run your business? how do you run your payroll? Is that done with stage? Do you use a bookkeeper for that or do you do that yourself?

Jack:

No, so we, there's a couple of platforms that we use. So we've actually got a team that run our payroll for us. But the way that we track the timekeeping and stuff is a company called Bright HR. It's just like an online platform thing. Again, No loyalty as much to them, but it's just what we've used from the start and it works well.

Robbie:

But you don't have that build in the service, bro.

Jack:

No,

Robbie:

We said at the job where you can track the timetables and whatnot. You can track employees and stuff as well.

Jack:

Yeah. It'd be nice to have an app that it's all in one, but maybe that's something we'll look at next winter. Probably a long time. As the commercial work grows, then that's maybe going to move you in a different direction anyway. Yeah, I think we're probably going to have to seriously consider getting our own in house software made. I know that the national firms like ID Verde and stuff, they have their own software bespokely made. It's probably going to go that way if I'm honest, but we'll see.

Robbie:

Do you have any exit plans for getting out?

Jack:

I don't, but I've got a plan in my head. What age are you? I'm 29. I'm 30 this year. I'm 30 in April. I'm 29. Yeah, there we go.

Robbie:

Exit plans aren't in your horizon anyway?

Jack:

obviously I'm making like financial plans for When I can't work any longer, but in my head, I've said it from the start. So if you followed our journey or no, there's a guy called Ash that works for me and he's like my right hand man. I've always said that if I make it to the top in this ivory tower, I want him to be there with me. So I suppose my exit plan would be for my family. If my son in the future wants to come into this industry or if son or daughter, they can. carry it on. That would be great for me, but in terms of an exit plan, I don't really have one. I just want to make sure that everyone around me that's helped me is there with me at the end.

Robbie:

And just on that note as well, because I know you were sick during the year. Do you want to talk a wee bit about, you were sick and how the business ran? Tell the viewers a wee bit about what happened to you.

Jack:

I was out in a tractor on a nice summer's day. Had an extreme pain and it was the day of the doctor strikes. I went to hospital, it was testicle torsion. So yeah, I had surgery that was meant to put me out for about six weeks, but quickly after that I got sepsis as well. So there was a point where I was uncontactable. The team didn't even know what had happened. They'd turn up to work the next day. Luckily we had processes in place where we've got the apps, we've got the whiteboard in the unit and they knew what to get on with. They hadn't had the message that I was severely unwell, but yeah, I was really lucky that it just kept turning over and obviously got a team in the office that managed to reign the reins of it.

Robbie:

had we had Jack Chapman in the workshop before and part of his podcast, he was talking about how long can your business run without you. How long your business could run without you before things fell apart?

Jack:

So this is actually really interesting and this is why I know that I've built. a really good team and that I'm absolutely blessed with the team that we've got. We were actually more efficient and made more money whenever you weren't there when I went there. I don't know if that's because the serious nature of what was happening. I don't know if they really stepped up in order to make sure that my family were. And for that, I'm obviously. I'm eternally grateful, but I don't know if it was that or whether I'm getting away. I don't know. It's good to show you,

Jason:

it's good to see the support from your team, that they can push the company whilst you're not there.

Jack:

think in those instances as well, you learn that I've always badgered on anyone that's come into the business, I don't want this to be a job. I don't want you to come to work, you're nine to five. I want Everyone to get on. I want this not to be a lifestyle. That sounds so cliche, but I like what do you

Robbie:

do to build a team sport for me? I spoke X forces. You probably have a you're probably pretty good on a body

Jack:

Yeah I think for me it's just like the basic stuff being there for people like Little things like I think I only been working for us for the first maybe a couple of months and like his wife's car blew up just being there for him like making sure Sorting the car out for him like we helped him bring it into the unit real building that stuff like that But also your days away go and going out for your christmas meals and stuff like that. I think If you're just ticking a box and say we're going paintball then you're not going to build a team, but it's like when you need each other and you're actually there for them. Little things like, I don't know, if something seriously goes wrong at their home and letting them go home fully paid or whatever it may be. But just showing them that you are there to support them, not just A bit of compassion. Yeah, that's it.

Robbie:

we're here to get ground down and do the work. And whenever you were ill, Did you let any of your key customers know that you were sick?

Jack:

So for the first week, until we'd figured out that we were going to be okay, none of them knew. Obviously, people then started asking questions, calling the office or not seeing me on site. Is Jack on holiday? And that's when we said. And to be honest with you, we should have done that from the start because the feedback that we had from the customers there was a little bit less pressure. There was like, oh, if we'd missed a visit by a couple of days, normally they'd be like, Where are you? But it was like, we had a bit of leeway. So it was really lucky.

Robbie:

Let the customers know right away. we've had other people and I had a similar experience myself.

Jack:

Yeah.

Robbie:

And I let the customers know right away and my customer would be a bit different than theirs. We're all domestic, but the support I got from people was unbelievable.

Jack:

I think it's always best just to tell them because one, they might be wondering where you are, but two, I think if you're building a relationship, especially with like facilities, managers or clients that in a residential game, if you've got that level of rapport, why wouldn't you tell them if you see each other as like friends or customers?

Robbie:

People are expecting to be there and there's going to be an interruption in the service. Yeah. If you can let them know, especially if you're going to be sick, if you have a family member sick, then.

Jack:

instead of just not turning up and I think nine out of ten of them as well didn't care about the work element, they just wanted to know if I was okay or whatnot, so yeah.

Jason:

Going back to winning your commercial work, what was

Jack:

So obviously the open gov portals for tenders and whatnot are really good because all the information's right there, but in terms of hunting for it or any type of marketing, I would say probably either LinkedIn, Or like local, if you've got like business, we have a magazine there us called like the Business Times where all like the local businesses are, whatnot. But yeah, LinkedIn publications, social media.

Robbie:

And what tips would you give anybody on LinkedIn? do you use the Seals Navigator or Anything like that? to find and connect with people.

Jack:

So the only time I'll use Sales Navigator is'cause you get a little bit more chance to delve into a business and find out. who the key contacts are, you get a bit more insight. A lot of people bash sales navigator to send like messages but for me, I use sales navigator to find out the people and wouldn't send them any calling messages or stuff like that. And I'll just keep them on the back burner watching them. And then basically start loading content onto my stream. So say, for example, it was, I don't know, Primark. I would then pick a case study up. wait for them to engage in it and then send them a message. So rather than go for like a hunt.

Robbie:

the sales, because cold sales. Yeah. Cold sales, no, nobody responds to cold sales. So if you're watching this and you're thinking about just messaging someone out of the blue, why do you do such and such, a lot of time it's just spam.

Jack:

one of our school networks that we managed to get into, I'd had the guy on LinkedIn for probably about six months. And one day he put a post up of his son And I messaged him saying good luck to your son. How long has he boxed for? And just use that as an ink. Cause we've got like this common ground of boxing. And then yeah, do you use that? I didn't even let him know who he were. And it was, I think it was like three or four weeks later, I had a phone call like, hello? It's Oh, it's so and and yeah, then we got in that way. So just building relationships.

Robbie:

Yeah. People buy from people and plant the seed.

Jack:

That's it.

Robbie:

You also have a YouTube channel that we haven't really talked

Jack:

about.

Robbie:

you want to give a wee shout out to the YouTube channel?

Jack:

Yeah. Cut Crew Limited on YouTube. Basically follow us with the raw reality of the commercial grounds maintenance industry. We put up a weekly video.

Robbie:

Really is. You get. Some really good advice on your channel.

Jack:

Yeah that's how we started it. I was getting a lot of questions on how to get commercial work and stuff, so I just do like little how to videos on maybe like tendering processes or how to price work and stuff like that,

Robbie:

a lot of people contact you off camera. Yeah, absolutely. Looking for answers, people watch my videos and think I have all the time in the world when I go back you don't have any time

Jack:

Yeah, it's really difficult. Obviously you want to do your best to help people And obviously you're trying to build a community and obviously we're all in the industry together So try and help as much as I can, but you do find yourself. I could probably get three or four phone calls a day It's maybe even the same question and it's really difficult to

Robbie:

would you see yourself in the future? Zach offer and I a consultancy for people that are watching our videos and then looking help. Do you see yourself Jack at some point in the future offering consultancy for people that are looking for advice because anybody that's looking for your advice is obviously going to be looking for commercial work and that advice is worth potentially a lot of money and people should be paying for it. Would you see yourself offering paid consultancy work through people that follow your channels that are looking for advice?

Jack:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's definitely something we can add value for. And not only that, I think if it was monetized and people were paying for us, we'd have more time and be able to achieve more results with them. So it's definitely something I want to look at in the future. Definitely. Yeah.

Robbie:

And lastly, where have you travelled from today to come to the podcast?

Jack:

Milton Keynes in England. Concrete city. Roundabout city, yeah.

Robbie:

you know what, do you know what's doing it? Do you know what's putting together a wee stat for the podcast? and cause I was gonna do a wee post on LinkedIn cause we're nearly to the end of filming. People have traveled nearly 5, 000 miles. That's crazy. To come to the podcast, to hear him back, in

Jack:

total, isn't that mental? Maybe next season you'd just get a little private jet and go to America. Bring them all in for one day. Just go to America. That'd be a long day. That's it.

Robbie:

And what time were you out of the house this morning not to come here?

Jack:

was out the house at 3am, but yeah, we're used to early starts, so it's no

Robbie:

bother. That's pretty mental. Listen, thanks very much for coming.

Jack:

Thank you very much. Good man. I appreciate it.