Roots to Revenue

Why Keeping It Simple Could Double Your Profits; The 2x Playbook for Success

• Robbie Lynn

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Breaking Through Revenue Plateaus

Someone watching this, if they're stuck on a revenue plateau that they just can't break through, what's the first thing they should do tomorrow to start breaking through and fix that? 

Keep your business stupid. Keep it simple. Think big before you are. Because what you'll do is you'll get everything refined in place, everything will be dead easy.

And then when you do start to accelerate your growth, it's simply a copy and paste exercise makes it so much easier. So be stupid. Keep it simple. Think big 

What? 

Introduction to the Roots To Revenue Podcast

And welcome to the Root To Revenue Podcast. Now, what if I told you that doubling your revenue isn't about working harder? It's about working smarter.

Too many business owners grind away thinking more hours equals more money. But the truth is scaling is all about strategy. The day we're gonna dive into the two times playbook, these are proven strategies that you can act on in your business today. 

Sponsor Spotlight: Jobber

Before we're gonna end today's podcast, let me tell you about the sponsor.

The channel is sponsored by Jobber. Jobber is my go-to software. Not only does it get me paid faster, my customers love it. But also if you're a busy business owner and you don't have any time for anything in your business and you're really struggling pulling your hair out, then you need to have a look at jobber.

'cause there's so many things within your business that can free up time and dropper automates lots of different things. And it means that you can spend more time making money than doing paperwork and all the boring stuff that comes with running a business. We check out Jobber Day. There's gonna be a link down in the video description.

The link is 

Meet Mark from The Lawnologist

Premier Loans link slash jobber. And who better to break it all down than Mark from the Lawnologist Last time he was on, we talked about his journey and mindset. Today we are talking straight top revenue growth from pricing strategies to automation, marketing to delegation. This is your roadmap to scaling without losing your sanity.

Buckle a lot because this one's packed with actionable insights. 

Mark Don, introduce yourself. Welcome back into the studio. 

Robbie, 

how are you? It's a bit colder here than it was like, it's just as cold as it was last time, I think when I was here last year. Yeah. So Mark from The Lawnologist back again for another podcast with you Find Gentlemen.

So your last podcast was all about how to grow business in the first year. Yeah. The hundred thousand pound plus. Yes. This year you've been smashing it again. Yeah. So I wanna find out how you can double that revenue stream. 

Mark's Journey and Business Background

But before we do, for anyone that didn't catch the first episode, tell us a bit about yourself and your business.

Yeah. My business is a lawnologist We're an independent lawn care business based out of north Essex Colchester, and we cover Essex and Suffolk. We're a small but very deliberate lawn care business. We've been going now two years. My background, I'm a former police officer, had a pretty horrific end to my policing career.

I ended up with having a breakdown and been diagnosed with PTSD. So I pretty much had to build this business from the grassroots up. Excuse the pun. Yeah, if you like that. It really was roots of revenue and Yeah. I haven't really looked back. It's been, it is been a learning curve and it always is, but we've managed to smash all of our targets and exceed them and yeah, been recognized as one of the industry leaders in our region, 

which is 

good.

Most businesses struggle to break past. Certain revenue ceiling. What was the turning point that you realized that you could smash through it and keep on charging on? 

I think in year one, we very quickly got close and exceeded the, that threshold, and I think it's that, that, that's the point I think for any small business.

When you hit that point is do you stay put and just make do and just stay under that threshold? If you're gonna exceed it and you're gonna have to start charging va, you might as well go for it, because in my mind, you can't just hover around that VA threshold. If you're charging va, you've gotta go to make it worthwhile.

So it was that point. We hit it quickly. I thought hang on, let's. Let's go for it. I've got nothing to lose because leaving the police, I sacrificed a pension, I'd sacrificed a lot of money. There's no point just hovering and being, a one man 

bank, 90 grand. You really need to, you gotta go for it.

130, 140. 

Yeah. You gotta go for it. And that was the kind of turning point for me. It was now never I'm gonna do it, so I'm gonna build. Which is, which was a, was the intention in the first place. But yeah the turning point was the, that threshold really, and the fact that my marketing had hit all the pain points and so I was getting a lot of, all organic inquiries and they kept coming.

I wasn't having to really having to work too hard. That sounds quite arrogant, but what I'm saying is I wasn't having to really chase customers. I got everything in place already and it was a bit of a do, bit of a do or die moment. We either do it, we go for it, and that's it. Was that point really that, yeah.

Touch on something. 

Understanding and Targeting Ideal Clients

Tell me about the pain points. The pain points. The pain points. So I think any business, when they set up, they've gotta understand who they're targeted and that, and to be honest with you, doing that donkey work there, doing the foundational work there really allows you to scale with less friction.

Because what it does is it helps you understand that person you want to target, understand their lifestyle. Who they're, what they do, what they drive, what they like, who their friends are, where they live. And imagine yourself being that person. That way when you do devise your marketing and you can understand how this person thinks, you can almost get to the point where you understand their pain points.

And certainly if you're in lawn care. So my ICP, we target larger lawns, we target. More affluent property, stately homes. Then in my mind, I want clients that are, have a vast, expansive lawn. They're time poor, but rich professionals, they're affluent. They like to entertain people on their lawn. They like to park their Bentley out the front and look at the stripes on their lawn.

And then, so what they really want is that lawn to be thick and green and weed and moss free. So they're your pain points. They can go a bit deeper than that, and you can talk about the seasonal pain points, make it a bit more touch point. So this time of year, we'd bang on about. Moss, for example, we're in January, February.

We'll talk about moss because that's the real key point. You get into spring, you'll start talking about eradicating weeds. You get the end of summer and you'll start talking about fixing trap damage. So understand your client, understand the pain points and bang on about it. And you'll find organically, you'll start to get referrals naturally because you are talking the language of the people you want to serve.

To the point, if they come into a room full of crowded. Lawn care professionals like all of us, and we're all banging about what we do. I want my ideal client to say, I wanna work with you, Mr. Ologist, because you are talking my language. You are saying everything I want to hear, and it's everything I need.

So making sure you've got the right ideal client, making sure your marketing fits around that causes less friction as you scale. 

Effective Marketing Strategies

So following on from that, with a service based business, what is the best way they can increase revenue without chasing the clients? 

Yeah, so that's a really good question actually.

So you've got your ideal client avatar. And so what we did, and so essentially put in the picture in the last year, we've doubled our turnover and we've doubled our clients. So we are now covering just short of a million square meters of lawns a year over our treatment periods. And then, so the way we've done that is by understanding our ideal client.

One of the things it's worth thinking about is what we call the pyramid. So divide that into four. At the very bottom, you have your non-ideal client. That could be your kind of low owners, unemployed students. Lawns. I've got a shopping trolley in the garden, and a few cannabis plants.

Apart from that, you've got your semi-retired pensioners that will give you business but they won't necessarily, you won't necessarily have a good lifetime value. Not necessarily 'cause they'll, they're extinct, but more because the spare capital isn't there. The spare cash isn't there.

You start gonna, the peak of the pyramid, you've got two sections there. You've got one where you've got your time. Poor professionals. They have a nice detached house, couple of cars on tick, even though you are vulnerable because as soon as the economy dips or the economy goes hard 

or re go up like the dead, 

yeah, it just stung me and you and everyone else.

You'll find that you are first on the call list. You're gone because you are certainly lawn care, a luxury service. If you get to the peak of the pyramid where the affluence sit and they can't merge into the high earners, these guys are financially literate. They know how to make money. They ask of all that, the economy.

They're still gonna be making money because they know how finances work. That's what we target ourselves. 

Money's a tool. Money's 

a 

real tool. Money's a tool. And most people don't understand that money's a tool. And yeah, deploy a tool just like any, you deploy money like tool. So like you say, yes the very reds gaze.

Yeah. So going on from say how do you increase revenue at that necessarily chasing clients all the time was the question, wasn't it? If you target high ticket clients, you are gonna get high ticket jobs. If you'll get high ticket jobs. You need less customers. Therefore, you can spread your time easier and you can be more invested in your client's launch.

That's a, it's a double whammy. Now, on top of that, so you'll target in the peak of the pyramid with your ICP, right? So on top of that, then there's lots of other little subtle things you can do. Keep your social media presence up, become authority online. Build that, know and trust. Keep your van in the area, in the areas where all these peaks are.

All the peaks of the pyramid properties. Get your van there. Get seen the amount of times I've had the van stopped. Someone said, can I take a leaflet? Can I take a brochure? We're also very target and deliberate with who we target. So again we'll make sure we are floating around in the areas we need to be, where the peaks are and we'll go and have conversations.

I think the days are gone of blanket leaflet dropping. I think the days are gone of. And they still work. But I think the, to get the best return on your investment is to go out looking for it and actually being here and having conversations, just talking about your business. Fundamentally, our business has grown this year over the last year from referrals and being targeted and deliberate with talking to our ideal client profile.

And we're gonna get end of market and. Further on in. Yeah. But just on that note, what do you think the most important marketing channels are? 

So for me, for my business we hover around the two. One is Instagram and one is Facebook. I tend to find that on Instagram. My presence is followed by a lot of our sort of peers in the industry.

Lawn care guys, gardening guys, landscaping guys. We get the odd sort of client comes with that. For me, Facebook is still king. Facebook is still king. So we've got a constant trickle running through content all of the time, showing what we do, showing no ideas, pictures of the vans, pictures of lawns.

The key with Facebook and to make sure you stand out more than anyone else is to show your face, be someone, be the front of the business, be the brand. 

I think a lot of website or a lot of small businesses really fall down, especially on their website. Yeah. About us. And it's just about the company brand.

It's not, people want to know who they're dealing with. Yeah. They want to know who they're dealing with. A lot of companies just have about us and there's nothing personal or there's, you don't know. If I pick up the phone and I'm on a phone, the ologist, and if there's nothing about, yeah. Mark from there.

Exactly. Then how am I gonna know, who am I gonna speaking to? Eac 

Exactly that. And I'm, I still, I'm very much the face of my business, even though we're probably one of the largest local lawn care businesses in our area now, I'm still very much the face of the business. Now the thing is when you start to decide you're gonna scale, you need to start thinking about optimizing these sort of things.

Your personal brand is just as important. As your business brand, they go hand in hand. They really do. So 

let's have a look at Steven Parlet from dragons Dam. Yes. He works really hard and the people know who he is. Yes. 

Yeah. 

And someone else who's not really doing so well. Or Elon Musk. Yes.

He's maybe selling too much. Elon who El who he's maybe selling too much. 

Yeah. 

But he really pushes his personal brand. Yeah. Over everything else. 

Yeah. And I think certainly when you are. A service based business in your and your a local business. And we are talking here about, we're not talking about the lawn care businesses that have been established years and have 30, 40 vans on the road.

We, we are talking about businesses like mine, that three van on the road, three or four vans on the road that are still very independent and very local. Your personal branding, you can optimize that as well Now with optimization. Comes sanitization as well. Is that Yeah, sanitization. Because what people doing this is so important is we live in an environment where everyone's so hyper informed.

They super search everything. Once they know Mark Walsh runs a law neurologist, they're gonna be looking at Mark Walsh on Law, on, on Facebook. When you are starting to optimize your business and your Facebook page, optimize your personal brand and get rid of anything that's controversial. All your political posts, all of the posts of you drunk with your pair of pants in your head, get rid of them.

'cause it damages your credibility completely. But for me, Facebook is key. Facebook is key because it's still very prominent. That might change in the future, and I'm sure it will because it's never every evolving beast, isn't it? 

I would say next couple. There's no. Most of you like drunken down your down, your local parks gonna eat de one.

Yeah, I've got top, I've got too years ago, so yeah, 

I got rid of them. Yeah they're long gone. I'm sure someone's got some pictures somewhere, just not about that Anyway. 

Just on that, would you, anybody that's running the business who has their Facebook, would you encourage them to, because you know you can make it so it's private or only certain things get shared.

Would you encourage people to. Maybe share more of the personal Facebook or would you not a clean divide between, 

I like to have a clean divide. I like to, business is business. Personal is personal. I don't really use social media personally. But that's just from my ex police days. I don't put anything on there.

I don't put pictures of my children and, but, because I could tell you some real horror stories about what can go wrong with that, but I, I would say keep your business page as your business page, but you can. Add a personal touch to it. That does help, that does break down barriers, but I certain certainly would keep my personal page and my business page is two completely separate entities and certainly 'cause you run an ads off of your Facebook page as well and all this sort of stuff.

You wanna keep that looking 

Yeah. Optimized for 

your business. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

More of I, I get that, but more of, when you say people do a deep dive into you and you can have only friends and family to see your Facebook. Oh. 

So let's have a look at, let's talk about it on Musk again and it is showing too much.

Yeah. 

You might like, or leg him or lose him, but it's showing too much. A lot of people are disliking them. 

Yeah. 

So it is showing too much and that's having a detrimental effect. Yeah. The overall brand for 'em. 

Because know with my own Facebook I just have that, so it's friends and family really.

I don't really see it. 

Yeah. Actually, to be fair, yeah. Mine's the same. Mine's completely locked down. Yeah. But that might, it always has been. Yeah. Because of my previous vocation, it always has been. Security always been quite high. But yeah, no, I don't leave that open. At all, and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody really.

Hundred percent. I get a lot of friend requests just from having the YouTube channel. And you have to have that value. 

You do. 

You do a hundred percent. So just to take the conversation a slightly different note, 'cause we went a wee bit off piece there, many business owners under charge. 

Optimizing Pricing and Value

So how do you define your pricing strategy that maximize profits will still provide in value?

I think you have to look at value differently. I think value is, I think it's very easy to associate good value of being cheap. But that's not the case, is it? I don't think it's, I think good value and value doesn't have to be something tangible. It doesn't have to be cheap. 

Everyone loves a bargain, but not all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So we don't discount we don't knock prices down. We don't, I don't, I believe in the value and I stand by the value of what we do. But, so when we talk about pricing and value, I tend to hone in on more that we're consistent. We're trustworthy, we are reliable, we're thorough, we're invested.

That's the value that we give. One of the things I would say to a lot of clients, a lot of clients, a lot of people that are in a similar sort of boat and they're looking at scale, is if you do hourly rates, bin that off straight away. Stick on job price. I think if you, if your hourly rate and you charge an hourly rate for gardening or mowing or something, you cap to 200 pounds of day turnover.

You can only charge, if you're charging 20, 30 pound an hour, for example you're in danger of almost capping your growth. So I think focusing on job price. I think refining your processes and believing in your value, believing in what you do. You don't need to be cheap.

Now, actually, if you start to get in a price battle, I found this, and I've learned this years ago when I was in sales. If you start to try and undercut people, that's only ever a race at the bottom. Your profitability will die and you'll get busier and busier because of it. Whereas actually, stick by your guns.

Believe your worth, believe your value, and convey that to the client. 

So again, a lot of that will feed back into your market and how you present yourself. Yeah. Everything else, that's one big circle. It 

is one big circle. It is one big circle. Another way you can maximize your profits without playing with your prices is to look at what's going on behind the scenes.

Are you buying well? Are you efficient? Are you proficient? Can you do more? Can you do less? Where can you tweak the systems? Behind the scenes? It doesn't impact the client. Makes your life a bit easier, makes your staff's life a bit easier. We spent a lot of time on refining processes.

What's your number one tip for being efficient then? 

Leveraging Software for Business Efficiency

Do you use any software to manage your business? Oh 

yeah. Java. Java couldn't. I couldn't. I could not be without that. Jobber now. I couldn't be without it. It's allowed me to scale beyond. What I dreamed would be doing in year two beyond what I dream we'd be doing in year two.

So for the viewers that don't, I'm obviously the talent sponsored by job work, but tell us what job work does for you within your business or how did some of the pros of why you have it, 

what Jobber does for me. So it start from the beginning. It offers this is really important actually, before we start getting into like your.

Your pricings and your quoting, that it offers an incredible client experience. I'm talking about my client experience because every customer has their own customer hub, so they can log in and they can see what they've had done. When you'll come in next, they can make requests. It's all branded, so it looks like it's all part of our business, which is job allows me to set visits, allows me to quote, allows me to invoice, allows me to route, allows me to optimize my route.

It syncs in with QuickBooks online with my bookkeeper. It looks really professional. You can email through it. So everything that we do, I would say actually that jobber is the spine of my business now is the spine of my business. I couldn't, 

I always say, so we go and do a, I like to think that we do a good job whenever we go to a customer's house.

Everything else is on jobber. Jobber is just the left blower of my business. 

Yeah. It's the spine. It just runs right through the center of my business and even the aftercare. So going back to the value thing, we're talking about what makes us different? We're invested in our client's lawns and so after every visit, we will give what's called a post visit loan report.

And we give them a synopsis of what we found. Job allows me to do a separate form. To do a report for the customer that we can ping off with the invoice. So all of these little things, Anna, and they're great. That's a great tool. 'cause it gives the customer information they can tell. We've been, they can tell what we've said.

It shows that we are interested in what they're doing as well. Sometimes they get the because we tell 'em off. But nevertheless it's a really good system. There's not many systems to do that. 

You're always, as well, you're always educating the customer. 

Yeah. 

And that's gonna open the door to.

Sales. 

Yeah, it does. And it also shows credibility and it shows your authority in new industry as well, doesn't it? So again, it's that circle. It's that kind of, so 

if you think of a long franchise where they just go in, throw the stuff down. Next customer. As quick as they can. 

Yeah, exactly that.

The other thing that driver does, which is gets comments on all of the time, is you can give them a five 10. We call it a death warning, but it's not a death warning. But we give 'em a 15 minute death warning. We're on our way. Just press. I'm on my way. They know you are coming. Clients love that because then they're ready for you as well if they're in.

So yeah, it is Johnny who works with me. We both love jobber. Brilliant. 

You saying so before visit whenever you're going to the next Yeah. You just, so 

when we finished off one, one visit and we clear it. What we're doing this year. We, they love it. We clear it. We'll pop into the sat nav 'cause you can direct get direction through jobber, pop into the sat nav.

We're going to Mrs. MCGs at 1 2, 3 Squirrel Avenue that will calculate the time. We'll just go on my way 20 minutes away, boom. And they know we're coming. 

Really good. So you've grown a lot in the last year. Yeah. How did you use jobber to upsell to your current clients? 

See, the beauty of jobber is lawn text.

We can quote on site, can't we? So we go to lawn, we do a lawn report. Say the client's there. We'll have a little chat. This is Megan's this. It's quite clear your lawn is airing. We're running a deal at the moment, blah, blah, blah. Hitting on those pain points we were talking about earlier.

Would you like a quote? Yes, please. It's done there. And then they can then accept that quote there and then we can book them in there. And then, so drop dropper allows everything to be sufficient. 

Wanna say, if you can text it to them, you can email it to them. Yeah, 

email it, text it, absolutely. And you can also follow up from it.

'cause Job will put a reminder in your schedule to talk to Mrs. MCGs from Squirrel Avenue about her aeration. The other thing we do. With our post reports, we have a little upsell part of the document where Johnny, or myself, or Simon, whoever is doing the report, will say, we've noticed that your lawn isn't draining very well.

It's quite compact. You've got a clay based substrate. We noticed you had a, it's been a year since you had your last aeration. Here's a document that explains what aeration does and what we'll follow afterwards is a quote if they're not in. So dropper allows us to do everything in one bubble quickly, because otherwise, if you are running your business with pen and paper and different spreadsheets, you've gotta go back.

You've gotta go and top your email out. You've gotta go and. Follow up by in person or whatever. So the jobber is just makes the whole system have less friction, 

less, 

less 

abrasive, less obstacles in the way between you and the customer economy, emotion, economy, emotions, economy, emotion. 

But we used to have, I'm trained marking 

that as well.

You keep nicking. 

My memo said that's gonna be the thumbnail. I've gotta tell a story. One time in the past I paid a company to do flyers for me and I, the only phone calls I got from that flower run was from people that found them in the bin and in their heads, I kid you not. So on that note, you'd said that you don't think traditional marketing really works that well anymore in terms of return on investment.

What is the best money spent for companies that are either looking to grow? So if I speak from a personal point of view, we've got, our marketing budget is very little. I think in the last year where we doubled our revenue, I reckon I spent a little over a thousand of marketing, not a lot.

And that include brochures and flyer and stuff. Depends on your niche, depends on your. ICP, your ideal client, the people you are targeting, the demographic you're in. It's very much gonna depend on how you, market. But so for us, what we do, which used to really upset people, but not anymore, we'll go and knock on doors and we'll go and have a chat, won't necessarily sell, but we'll have a structured conversation to give you an example, January, which is notoriously a.

The worst time of year to go out and door knock. We brought on an extra hectares worth of lawns into the business through doing this over three or four clients because we've been targeted, we've been deliberate, we've had the conversation. The next best thing for us is because we give our clients such good service and we are so on it and healthily paranoid about our service levels dropping.

We get referrals. Now, if you're dealing with people that are at the peak of the pyramid, peaks are makes for peaks. So your referrals are gonna go to like wise customers, I do. I think you're right. I think that the days of, and I mean I'm dead again. I'm dead against mass lethal. It drops. They end up in the bin.

You get some knuckle dragon pallet stack or dump 'em in the bin and go get on the pub. 

I'm gonna say the only way or the only success I've had in the past is they either do them yourself. You can lead to them yourself if you're cash per and time rich. So if you're just starting out, flowers can be a very effective way.

They can and they still are. And they still are. But what we do now, 

whenever you want the two extra growth, 

yeah. 

Then flowers aren't, 

I think when you are blanket flyering thing, let's be honest, what do you do in a leaflet? Comes through the door, Robby, most of the time it goes under the, goes in the fire, it goes in the bin or you screw it up and chuck it, whoever, I never read junk mail.

I don't think many. It a, it's a hindrance to me. All I see is a dead tree coming through my letter box and I want to recycle it basically. I'm sure the odd people do read a leaflet, but if you are going to leaflet, I would say do it to the right type of client that's got the right type of lifetime value to you if you win them and be structured with it and deliberate, there's no harm in having a conversation now.

You've gotta get knocked back a few times. And this is again, this is not gonna work for businesses that have got 15, 20 pounds on the road. This we are talking about businesses that have gone from a sole trader, single person to a team of three or four, right? And you're going for like top end stuff.

But the other benefit of having conversations with these high-end people is you get better at it. You might get knocked back, but every time you knock on the door, every time you talk to someone, every time you talk about your idea about your business, you are refining your pattern. You are refining your powerr.

So when someone says, Ruby, what do you do? You can say actually, I run Premier Lawn. Yep, that's what I do. You hear all the pain points. You've done it in one sentence. You've not sold 'em anything, but you are refining your own patter as well. That. Has been unbelievably successful for us as a business.

Now, of course, it does work for the right type of client. And what you tend to find with more top end properties, top end clients, they're not used to people knocking on the door because it's quite intimidating, but they're more likely to have a conversation with you because they do appreciate business.

The thing is, you have a conversation with this person. The difference is you are getting a 600 pound lawn treatment as opposed to a 30 pound lawn treatment. So what we've done is we've really honed in. On being deliberate and again, referrals. They were the two main things for us in the last year.

And we do run the all F Facebook ads deal. 

The Power of Referrals and Reviews

We do 

with the referrals, do you give any sort of bonus? Do you make a donation to charity? If somebody recommends a friend 

we give marks and 

Spencer vouchers. Do you give that to the person, to the refers and the new customer, or do you just give it to one or the other?

Generally what happens is the person that refers gets the Mark Spencer's vouchers, the person that is new to us. Or might get an additional treatment or an add-on to their first treatment or something. But don't forget we are dealing with lawns there. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,000 square meters.

It's expensive to give away too much, yeah. But if you optimize the other thing worth known as well, when you get busier, you don't have the time to go and do the door knocking and you don't have the time to have the conversations. We still do, we still have days where we allocate days for it in the business.

But reverting back now to your Facebook pages and your social media presence and your Google profile, if everything's optimized, that will bring in organic growth. The more referrals you get, the more reviews you get, the more clicks you get, the more prominent you become. So again, talking about that circle, that's another cog in the wheel pretty much.

That's another thing that optimization and making sure that everything is hitting the right points. So when people do look you up, 

I'm used, I haven't used these, I've seen not this again, he's the whole season. When's the best time to ask a customer for a file 

when you've done a good job? 

Don't ask 'em when they're complaining.

Would you ask them on the doorstep? Would you send 'em an email? Would it be with an invoice? Would you just get it with 'cause again, job will do it automatically. When's the best? When do you think the best time? 

I tend to ask for an in person. Or by email. But generally what I would do is when we go and do they really, if you've done a renovation, this is the best time to do it.

You've really turned the lawn around and you go and do a lawn review what you would call a welfare check on the lawn. That's another police term, but we go and do a welfare check on the lawn. 

Would you do, sorry, would you do the renovation then call back a couple weeks later to see how it's go on?

Yeah. And then not actually carry out any work. Would you be any work on that? Yeah. Walkable welfare check. Yeah. Cer certainly if it's a renovation where the client may be invested two or 3000 pounds, we will. We will keep going back. As I say, we're healthily paranoid about our standards.

It's also good the call back to give 

them water and interface to make 

sure that Yeah, they Yeah, exactly that. But that the point the customer says, you know what guys? I'm so pleased with this and I really am chuffed with the investment I've made, is the point. I'll say, thank you very much.

Now it really help me if you be so kind. Would you mind popping a small Google if you want for me please? It means an awful lot to small business and it really helps us grow and solidify our presence in the marketplace. That's how we get, get our reviews. But I only do it for people that we've done a good job for, which is generally all of our clients.

But and touch wood, luckily we don't get complaints, if at all. But it's when they're on that high, when they're on, when they're appreciating what you've done at that point of conversation, 

especially if you've called back to see how things are going. Yeah. 

Or if they're not in. Madam. Look we've gone to do welfare checking today.

We're really pleased with the progress. If you are always pleased as we are, it would mean an awful lot. If you could leave us a review. Here's the link to Google. That's what we do. 

Asking for Reviews and Referrals

Yeah. Make it easy for them. Yeah, make it easy. You 

have to make for reviews. And would you ask for the review or would you ask for the referral?

Would is do, like I said, joint ask. 

So what we do that's a really good question actually. What we do, the referrals we ask in person, sorry. The reviews we ask in person, the reviews we ask in person referral. Goes on every newsletter we do. 

Effective Use of Newsletters

So we do a quarterly newsletter and we talk about deals are running.

We talk about lawn carer tips and advice. We talk about what's come, what's new in our business. So the customers feel part of what we're doing and they know that we've bought a new member of staff or we've got a new piece of kit or we're starting to work on this particular property or something like that because they, what I try and I'm trying to build a culture of community so all of our clients feel like they're part of it.

And then at the bottom we have a little banner that says, mark Spencer's vouchers for successful referrals. And we get quite a few coming through that. But equally, you don't necessarily have to incentivize people because if you're doing a good enough job and they're that happy with you, they'll refer you anyway.

But we done remainder every night. Again, helps, does help get up the way. So we are lucky so as I say, it's optimization. Going out and having conversations with people and referrals is what really accelerated our growth. 

So in the last podcast you talked about. Running ads on Facebook and Mark and Instagram, et cetera.

Optimizing Facebook Ads

Can you talk us through some of that, how you would do Facebook ads? Yeah. The best way to, for people that are looking to extra growth. To extra growth. 

Okay. So I I'll paraphrase this 'cause there's so much. So much that can goes on behind the scenes. So Facebook ad, first thing you need to do is you need to know, say it again, your ideal client.

So important. You need to know your ideal client. You need to know your ideal demographic. And the good thing about Facebook is you Facebook, adsd, you get to target those people because behind the scenes you can look at the demographic. You can put in their, you can put in the radius, you can put in the age group, the text even I think.

So you must be clear on your ICP. When you generate an ad, make sure there's a good hook. So something that's gonna catch someone's eye quite often. Free in capital letters is a good one. Free moss control with your first treatment. Free weed control with your spring treatment. Free over overseeing with an aeration when you book a an annual care plan with there or something.

So offer something to hook, put some body within that of education. Give something. So give some knowledge. That shows credibility, that shows your authority in what you're doing. And at the very bottom, have a call to action and then make sure that your images sink in with what you're saying and then give yourself a budget.

Now, you might wanna do 10, 20 pound a day for 10 days. I wouldn't run a, I wouldn't run the same ad for more than 10 days. And I'll be honest, sometimes I'll put an ad and I think, oh, I've nailed that. That's quality. I get nothing. And then I'll put something else on. I'll spend 60 quid in it and that'll bring a couple of grand's worth of work in, and I'll think it was the worst that I've ever done initially.

I 

think the other thing they include is don't try and add too much to the text. 

Yeah. 

Keep it really simple. 

Simple. Straight to the point, hook body, call to action. And in that body, give something, give some knowledge, give something away. In terms of. Intellectual knowledge. I'm not saying, I'm not saying you have to give money away or anything like that.

I'm saying give them something that makes them think, hang on, these guys are talking my language. 'cause within that body you also give you, you hate on those pain points. This time of year we moss summer, we are drought damage. 

Qualifying Leads and Client Selection

Would you add a phone number or an email? 

I've tried both before but because we're a small team and time is money and time is precious.

What I try and is I try and. You can actually get leads qualified through Facebook. What I like to do is direct 'em through to my landing page on my website because there's certain questions we ask on that. Then it helps me qualify the lead because if it's, if the lawn's not the right size or in the right, wrong area, they can't submit that form without filling out these things.

I can then politely email and say, I'm sorry, we're not servicing your area at the moment. That way almost. Drudges what's coming through? 'cause you do get some crap. 

Anybody that requests a quote through mean now 'cause have to be Yeah. Like yourself. Have to be super selective. Yeah. I'm not going to look at a job unless there's pictures attached to the quote.

Ah, so I, I know exactly what it is before a lot of people say, I have a large lawn lady for me up door then says I have a large lawn. And I never looked at up Google. It's 300 meters that I know that's large to her, but it's not large to us. 

No, not at all. And so what I do is talk about being selective and making sure you are breeding the right kind of client culture.

When they've gone through that process with the Facebook ads, and I'm not an expert on Facebook, there'll be people that will look at this and go talking rubbish. But I will then, and this is my policing days. I'll do a bit of an intel t trawl on that property and I'll Google map it out, see how much it.

See how big it is. And at that point I'll work out whether we can service it, whether we can't or whether we do or don't wanna service it as well. Do we need it? 

Do I say no? Is a really important skill for a self-employed partner. Ah, yeah. I love it though. I love it. 

You were saying earlier about, you said we set aside time for going knocking on the doors.

Is that you personally or is it somebody else in your team? 

So me and Johnny who works with me full-time. Johnny has got really good. At client acquisition in terms of being targeted and deliberate. He's got, have you ever seen like the Danish bacon advert where the guy with the nose just follows the smell of bacon?

Johnny's a bit like that. With the sort of clients that we like to serve. He'll just go and sniff these people out and and find them. But, so in terms of how we do it, we have days where we were frosted off, we snowed off, we rained off. How do you maximize your time? And also from a business owner's point of view, how do you make sure you're getting a return out?

The staff you've got on for the day. Do you see what I mean? What we generally do is Johnny will go and we'll go and look at, we'll plot out a route, we'll look at properties, we'll go on Google Earth, we'll look at the properties that got tennis courts and large lawns. And because we've got the equipment to service these and no one else has, and we'll go and target these people.

So that's generally. When we do have a spare day, which to be honest is few in ton, we have a few, then that's what we'll do if we get weathered off or we have a day on the schedule where things don't necessarily fall into plan. 

There's only so many vans. There's only so many times you clean the van.

Yeah, 

that's it. 

We we clean ours every day. We clean our vans every single day. Again, for that client perception optimization thing you'll never see our vans dirty. So we get him to clean the van first. Then he goes out and knocks on the door. It looks good when he pulls up on the drive.

Yeah. Usually before we go and do the long stream, unless we're really super busy, he'll try and keep the fans clean. 'cause that's that. 

Yeah such. And we get comments all the time on the vans being clean. But it's all part of your branding, isn't it? It's all part of that. That whole branding package is that?

Yeah. The vans look nice, and yes, you've got a nice emblem and stuff, but you don't look like it's gone through a bloody clouded allotment. Do you want it to look nice and clean? So we've got, we actually have in I, I'm OCUD with this. I really am. But we've got a little valeting bay at the yard where there's a petrol jet 

wash.

And you taking the, A whole new level. 

Yeah. But once, once you got the kit, blast it. The jet wash doesn't take five minutes. Yeah. 

Because there's no clean anyway. 

Yeah, it's clean every day, so you only get a few speced. But this time of year, you going into the back lanes, you go in the corner, it's filthy again.

So you're not washing the co. The van twice a day then yet. Has been known. Has 

been known. 

Depends how bad my OCD is that day. 

Yeah. That's not good for two x in the business one. 

No, I hadn't paid the water bill on my yet, so that's not too bad. 

Scaling the Business: Hiring and Training

Let's roll back to the earlier years in your business. Many small business owners really struggle to step back.

At what point did you realize that it's time to hire and how did that impact the revenue? 'cause I know as well you're thinking about, you'd like to take on another team member guy. Yeah. 

Yeah, I think I'd got to, so we'd got to a stage where I just needed a part-time pair of hands to help me with renovations.

And that was in, within the first six or seven months of business it was, I was too much one person. And I then realized as the business was going on, the person I'd hired to help me out was retired. I didn't want any full-time work. I did need someone else. I met Johnny serendipitously really through, he's the son of a client, very good client of mine. And at that particular time, he was just looking for some part-time work. But I knew that if we carried on going on this kind of growth trend, this growth curve, that I needed a full-timer. So Johnny started as a part-time very quickly. I thought, hang on he can be full-time here.

This is think, but it. It gotta the point where I was overwhelmed. I was overwhelmed, and I felt like I had nothing left in the tank to do everything. Now you can all appreciate that. Yeah. It gets hard. And again, you get that. I just gone back registered I've gotta go, I've gotta go, I've gotta make this thing work.

I had a guy with me that was dead keen, dead nice, and dealt with the customers wonderfully. He had no lawn care experience whatsoever, but I can develop him. Was the business ready at that time for another full time. But no, it wasn't. It was an absolute punt and a gamble, and it did bloody stink.

But growth stings, I think whatever you do a any kind of growth is uncomfortable. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable and you have to make it work. So I had to fund the first couple of months personally just to get the ball rolling, pay wages. And of course when you bring another member of staff, it's another van, it's another couple of sacs, it's another air rate, it's another scarifier.

But in my mind, I already knew that I wanted to scale the business at that point. So I'd already started to acquire these things, but it was the point of overwhelm where I thought, I can't get much busier. 

You passed through the VA as one man band or have one Yeah, band, yeah. 

I did that come out the blue as well.

And that's something that I'd urge any anybody to be careful of because you need to keep an eye on that because that can come and bite you in the ass pretty quick. So we, we went VATI think within about eight or nine months. I say we, I went to and I suppose within the year is when I had Johnny on year and a bit and was training him up.

Now. Now he's fully self-sufficient. He's a real key cog in the business and the investment in the gamble paid off. But we go and we'll go again this year. We'll get someone else in. What I'd like to do is to bring someone with no experience because we have a slightly unorthodox way of doing things that works.

I want someone else that we can help and train and bring on. 

I like, they I like now bringing in people that have less experience. And you can train them exactly how you want. Attitudes. Yeah. Attitude's key. Absolutely. 

Absolutely. And I think this is key, and without sounding. Too arrogant.

That was right though, isn't it? Yeah. We've said this. We are going, the next person we bring on will hire on attitude. I don't care if they've spent their whole life in an office. I don't care the attitude. They've got a a mindset for growth and they don't mind some hard work and they wanna be outside and work on some of the best lawns in the area.

But hang 

maybe somebody that spent their life in an office and then they go outside and then they're outside in the cold all the time. Yeah. There's a risk. They have a f flood risk. 

They do. But then Johnny, who worked with me was a corporate guy all of his career and had never worked outside before and loves it now.

And we, you can get a feel, can't you, for people I think, we're never gonna, we are never gonna dump someone in on in the deep end and. And, and actually hire, making my first hire, I learned a lot about process and having a ular guidance and things that we need to focus on and maybe a more of a design and a staged approach and development.

To begin with, they're just gonna shadow me shadow Johnny. Gradually they'll start taking off responsibility for a few lawns and then eventually they'll work towards having their own van in their own round. Some of the days. We're mostly double crewed anyway 'cause of the size of the lawns that we do.

I think when you're looking at making your first hire and probably with any hire, what I'd say is get someone on before you actually hit them so you've got time to get them to a certain level for when things do kick in 

so you're not in full panic mode. Yeah. 

So they haven't got hit the ground running.

So Johnny started with me in the January. I didn't really need him on his own probably until the May, June, July. So I gotta spend six months with him. It wasn't easy for him. It wasn't easy for me. It was hard. 'cause you have to adapt your, you have, as a business owner, you have to adapt your own mindset as well.

Everything has to change, get 'em on before you need them and just be prepared that it's gonna bloody sting. And things do change. Things do change. Somebody 

said to me recently, it's like an elastic ban. So you spend the money, especially on an employee. Yeah. 

That. 

That money goes out and it costs you a lot.

Yeah. But whenever it comes back, you're earning more than you were before the Yeah. Stretch that band. 

It is almost like a backwards and elite forward, backwards and elite forward sort of thing. 

Refining Processes for Growth

But tell me this, 

what other processes have you put in place, parts over that whenever you started, and also that have helped turbocharge that growth?

So in order to grow efficiently, and as I say we cover the amount of lawns that our business with Tex we cover. The two of us and me, I'm on. I'm not only on the tools, I'm running the business as well. So what you have to do is you have to make sure that you are reducing friction all of the time.

You're dealing with pinch points. And think about the economy in motion, right? So what we spent a lot of time doing is refining process, refining backend process. So what we're doing behind closed doors in terms of how we operate at the yard. How we operate with our roots, how you keep those bands clean, how we keep the band, you have to allocate time for that, mate.

Honestly, never underestimate a clean band, but what we've really, what I've really tighten the screw on in the last three months is production time. Not necessarily how long it takes us to treat a along, but how long it takes us to do what we need to do before and how long it takes us to do what we need to do afterwards.

So we've really worked on refining our production times. The other thing. I would say to really accelerate your growth is take a subjective look at your business and work out what is actually making you the money and what's not. Because you might have to dump a few things that you are spending time on.

That don't necessarily make you the money. So I've got this little of thing in my head. I call it a decision making model. It's another police term. I've got this thing of doing to bring guests from all over the uk. I spend edge of time on, I dunno if it's bringing in the money. Yeah. But you get to meet some nice people.

Sometimes anyway, I get free business. It makes, yeah. So I have this thing how I run through this process of how I've. Tweak. Define and refine. Define and refine. Define what you're doing, refine it. Define what you wanna do. Refine it. It's a bit of a police term. It's called a decision making model.

And on that wheel, it's like a wheel. You have cost versus time versus return. What does it cost me? How long does it take me to do it? Do I get return? If those things don't link up, it's out the window. And so for example what we've done, what I've stopped doing to refine what we do, things that don't make money.

We don't do nematode treatments anymore. We didn't really, anyway, we don't do leveling anymore. We don't do minor patch repair anymore. What we do is we educate our clients to do it themselves and supply the product to do it, but all of these things will take time. You get no return on them. And then looking at any service based industry, say if you are, if you're a garden maintenance company, and say one of your services is raking, leaves up.

You can only charge X amount for raking leaves up. 'cause the client themselves, what does it cost you? How long does it take you? What's the return? Is it worth doing? If it's not, don't do it. Don't do it. And focus on the things that make you money that you can refine and define. 

Avoiding Burnout

A lot of small business really struggle with as they get really busy are in the place where you can suffer burnout.

What things do you do to stop yourself from burnout as your business has scaled and grown? I've gotta be honest, that's a battle. That is a real battle because you can't grow at the rate we've grown without putting the hours in, without spending time on refining. Most of my time isn't actually spent treating the launch that's between eight and four every day.

That's the easy part. I would say the difficulty is the process behind the scenes and the things that we have to do on top of just being on the tools as a business owner let's be real. You can't aggressively grow our business and not do the hours. But I think there has to be a limit.

I think there has to be a cap where you think actually, I'm gonna put the hard yards in now for the next two or three years, build a team and then delegate out. What I've done to avoid that is I've just tried to automate as much as I can. Now I'm not talking about AI and this sort of thing, but even with machinery.

So I've invested in machines that will spray 2000 square meters in half an hour, that power themselves. So that's a lot of money, but I'm getting less knackered doing it. I'm then spending less time on the launch, which gives me more time in the office and more time with the customers. I've trained up.

Johnny, who's pretty much my number two to take on more responsibility as well. He's done the quotes. He does. He does the smaller quotes. 

He's doing lead generation. Lead generation. Yep. 

He's doing managers, customers expectations. He's a great brand ambassador. So all of the things that I've do I can do, I've done, and Bill, I've trained him to do and he does it very well, and in some cases better than me, 

kinda like I just know we said it.

It's currently, we're currently. Jason's currently out on podcast now, so he's definitely enough. Does he skill man, 

he's pretty good at that too but I would say that burnout is a very real risk. Now, I'm one of those people and I'm, to be brutally honest and personal, I'm one of those people that does do everything 120 mile an hour and I'll give it 120%.

That's whether I've got some kind of deficit that powers that, I don't know, but I'll use it to my advantage. The downside to that is you become hyper-focused. You become very dedicated to the cause. You don't realize what's going on around you and behind the scenes. So when burnout does hit, it hits hard.

Last year I ended up with pneumonia in December because of, I think I just, I'd gone to the nth degree, but it was a wake up call. And I'm always grateful for these things. 'cause it just makes me stop and think, hang on a minute. I've probably been over doing this a little bit. I've got a family, a young family, I've got a wife, got a business, I've got people that rely on me.

I can't afford to let myself get this indulged. In growth. So this is a bit different. I've, we're still gonna grow, we're still gonna go, but I'm gonna be a bit more strict with what I'm doing. And I think there's a, you have to have a discipline and I slightly learned the hard way last year that. To be brutally honest, you can't grow the way we've grown without it having some sort of personal impact on you.

And I've been there before in the police. It took me out. The police was a, was burnout and a breakdown, partly because of my nature, partly because of how I attack things. The difference is now I'm very aware of it. So when I got ill in December, I was like, hang on, and I was coming here, take foot off the gas.

Gas. So I know 

my stomach plays up. 

Does 

it? Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. You know when it's coming. Yeah. And for me, rolling with the P ts d, for me, the telltale signs are my sleeping pattern starts to suffer. I don't sleep very well. I start to get a bit snappy and I start to get a little bit, I cling onto things a minor annoyance might happen.

I'll clinging onto that and I know that I'm getting close to burnout and that's when I think I probably need to have a day off here. I'm just gonna do nothing. I'm do nothing business related. Spend a day, go swimming, go to the gym, meditate a bit. Sorts for meditation. That's a really good thing. If you don't meditate, meditate really good.

Just to give you brain a break. 

We had a heist. Did you? And so a lot of small business owners struggle with. They might turn to drink and Yeah. Drugs and everything else. So he would help a lot of business owners get through stuff like that. And he was talking about meditation and how to like, just take a nice deep breaths.

Yeah. 

Be calm yourself. Do 

you know I can really see why business owners do turn a drink. It's so easy. I'm not a big drinker, but there's been times where I've thought I could do it a couple of points just to relax. I can see how that can become across, got my hands 

every night.

Soon. Adds up. 

Yeah, 

soon adds up. And again, you have to be strict with yourself. We all have a beer, don't we? We all have a beer. But I think I can see how very quickly, if you are not disciplined, you can fall off the wagon quite quickly. I can see it, especially when you're running your own business.

'cause it's a constant. Three or four thoughts at the same time all of the time. And you would appreci that. Rob, you are a busy guy yourself. It's sometimes you just have to give yourself a bit of a slap around the chops. I think it's say, come sort yourself out. 

Yep. It's not get employees to give you a slap move.

No.

Be very nice with it. Sort me out. Yeah. 

Gimme 

a slap. Just to lift the conversation back up a bit there. What's the mistake you made while scaling that actually slowed you down? 

I wouldn't say they were mistakes touch with, but there's certainly been pinch put, what I call pinch points where maybe the bottleneck has narrowed a bit too much that you certainly learn from.

I think trying to do too much at once. I think trying to please everyone all of the time. You can't really, people please as much as you like to you, as you say, one of the most powerful things you can do in your business is say no. And I think I. I took a little bit of time to learn that.

And again, it's an easy mistake to fall into, easy thing to fall into because when you're first set up, and certainly in the early days, you wanna take on everything. 'cause you need an income, don't you? But I think as we start to grow, you can't be everything for everyone. And there's a few sort of how I dealt with a few hiccups and maybe process and mistakes we had behind the scenes that maybe I didn't deal with so well.

But it's all a learning curve, isn't it? You are always on a learning curve. But there's no, there's been no real howers, just little pinch points that we've learned from Yeah, every day's school day. Yeah, absolutely. But the beauty of it is, how you perceive that, isn't it? The beauty of it is if you look at it as an opportunity to get better, to refine and define and automate a bit more, which is what we've done.

Every mistake we've made, everything that's gone wrong, we've learn from, and we've negated that happening again. To make sure that we are keeping our economy in motion. I keep dropping that in there. I'm so tough with that one. 

Actionable Tips for Breaking Revenue Plateaus

So we'd like the podcast to have actionable tips. Someone watching this, if they're stuck on a revenue plateau that they just can't break through, what's the first thing they should do tomorrow?

The start breaking through and fix that. Is there only one tip you would say? Do this now? 

Yeah. You know what? When you get on the pub. And there's always one bloke, one little bloke in there that annoys everyone. 

The local bar flag. 

Yeah, be that. But don't be like him. But use that. Use that as an idea.

You wanna be, you wanna act like you're stupid, right? Because this bloke always does that and buy that. Make everything simple for yourself to act like you're stupid. Keep it simple as you act stupid. Keep it all simple, right? Keep it simple because this bloke down the pub is stupid and he's simple.

And the other thing is. He, even though he is little, he acts like he's big. So keep your business. Stupid. Keep it simple. Think big before you are. Because what you'll do is you'll get everything refined in place, everything will be dead easy. And then when you do start to accelerate your growth, it's simply a copy and paste exercise makes it so much easier.

Really work on that economy motion. 

So look, there's simpler faith. Look, the simpler pay things simpler, simplify it. What processes are you doing that are just like getting in the way of everything else? Yeah. Have a look at the stuff that isn't making any of the money. Yeah. Say that's gone.

That's gone. Exactly. 

Yeah. And try and make your business. So you know how you go to a curry house, right? And you go to a curry house, this is another little kind of parable for you. Really go to a curry house. The curry house will have 40 dishes on that menu, but they only have one base source. And how they create so many dishes in one night.

'cause they have one base sauce and they add a few different things to each one to make it a different dish. If you keep your business simple and have a base source you are literally making it so much easier for yourself just to copy and paste and to grow and accelerate, and to replicate instead of trying to 

do too 

many things, trying to do too much.

So be stupid, keep it simple, think big, be the black down the pub. 

That's definitely a sort, be a resale. Yeah. On that note, if you had to start from scratch, what would you do differently that you'd know? Now 

I'd be more patient, but I'd have aggressive patience. And by that I mean I'd be patient for the right type of work.

I'd be more within my niche. The problem is you don't know your niche until you get into the business. But I'd, knowing what I know now, I'd be, I'd have niched earlier into the larger properties in larger lawns. I'd had an aggressive patience. I wouldn't have diversified so much, and I'd have acted stupid.

I'd kept it simple and I would've thought bigger in my early days. How will my processes work when we're doing 10 times what we're doing now? 

Think of your ideal customer. 

Yeah. 

Know who he is. Wait for him to come along. Do that type of work. Cool. Stop you there. Try not wait for him to come along. Go and find him.

Go and find him. Okay. 

Yeah. 

And then try not to take too much work that deviates away from that. 

Exactly that. Yeah. Keep it simple. 

Keep it simple. Stupid. Act like you're stupid. He's always saying my, yeah, I don't need to act, keep it, act like you're stupid. 

Be the little black down the pub that thinks, he thinks he's big already.

I'm not him, 

but it's that kind of, yeah. We'll be doing something and I'll just like Robbie kiss, not gimme a kiss.

You two got a good relationship.

Future Plans and Mentorship

So just to round it up there, what are your future plans and where can people find you? 

So we're gonna keep capitalizing what we're doing business wise. We're gonna keep refining what we do and make sure we. Leading and revolutionizing our industry. I think I'm starting to write a book that's gonna encapsulate everything we spoke about today and starting up a business.

That's gonna be that's a work in progress at the moment that's gonna be called Green to Gold. And that's gonna give a absolute toolkit for someone that's starting up from scratch. How to find the ideal client, how to utilize Facebook ads, how to structure a business, how to grow, hoping to work.

Offer more a mentorship role as well for newer businesses. Bit of one-to-one coaching and to help them accelerate their growth like we have. 

I think I actually think that'll be really good 'cause. Always enjoy having you on the podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're always really open with the stuff you share, so gonna say a hundred percent you have my recommendation if anybody's looking to grow their business.

Yeah. Thank you Rob. We appreciate that first part of call, right? You go ahead. Yeah, mate. And 

and yeah. And just really carry on doing what we are doing and being fresh and revolutionizing our business. Generally people wanna get a hold of me. They can website, which is, theologist co uk email is info at theologist co uk.

Drop 

the links down Snapchat as well. Yeah, if you 

would, and catch me through any of the socials that are down below. Facebook, Instagram. 

Super. Thank you very much. Thank you, Robbie. Jason, thank you. Always pleasure. Thank you. 

Cheers.