Episode 3: Rosie Bans: Artist, Innovator, and CEO of Be Radical Make Music

Welcome to the third episode of the exciting new podcast, 🎵Things I Never Thought I'd Say🎵 with your host - singer, songwriter, performer and producer Sam Crane. 

It's all about women in music and their mindset.
 
On today's episode, Sam is interviewing Rosie Bans, an enchanting Scottish talent who’s reshaping the music industry as a singer, songwriter, producer, performer, podcaster, and CEO. Rosie spills the secrets of juggling her artistic passion with the entrepreneurial spirit of her business, Be Radical Make Music. 
 
 Rosie answers these three questions ...

• Who she is?
• What things she never thought she'd say that she is now saying?
• What challenges she is facing now and how she can apply that winning mindset to overcome them?

Listen to this episode to find out more about Rosie and why she does what she does.
 
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

[00:44] Introduction to Rosie Bans.

[10:27] Navigating creativity and self-discovery.

[16:52] Unexpected success and self-discovery.

[22:24] Overcoming challenges, self-love and burnout.

[37:48] Future plans and self-care tips.

Check out Rosie’s socials:

https://www.instagram.com/rosiebans/

https://twitter.com/rosiebans

https://www.youtube.com/user/rosiebans

Check out Rosie’s company:

https://www.beradicalmakemusic.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/radicalsongwriting https://www.beradicalmakemusic.com/podcast

Check out Rosie’s music:
Instincts
Home

Chapters

• 0:03 Rosie Bans
• 10:27 Navigating Creativity and Self-Discovery
• 16:52 Unexpected Success and Self-Discovery
• 22:24 Overcoming Challenges, Self-Love, and Burnout
• 37:48 Future Plans and Self-Care Tips

Transcript

Sam Crane: 0:03

Things I could've done yesterday. I'm doing them today. Things I never thought I'd say, things I could've done yesterday I don't live there today. I never thought I'd say hey, hey, hey, Hello, and welcome to today's podcast of Things I Never Thought I'd Say, and I'm so, so, so, so excited to be joined by Rosie Barnes and I'm going to introduce you as singer, if you don't mind. Rosie singer, songwriter, producer, performer, podcaster, ceo of your own company, all around amazing, wonderful female musician type person. Does that kind of cover everything?

Rosie Bans: 1:04

Yes, that covers all of it. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, I've never heard that be listed out before.

Sam Crane: 1:14

Cool, right, that's cool that's who you are, and so, for those of you who have not yet heard of you, how would you describe yourself in your own words?

Rosie Bans: 1:24

loud. Definitely very, very Scottish and ginger. Yeah, I would describe myself as an independent music artist who just does hundreds of things. Yeah, like all the things that you said, I kind of have two main self-images, I suppose one of them is a music artist, which is what I've been doing since the beginning of my time, and the other one is the CEO of B-Rad's Comete Music, and, even though they're slightly different which they have to be because there's different things that I'm trying to achieve with those things but they are very much intertwined and interconnected. You know, we're all in the same family. Oh, it sounds like I've got a lot of me's in my own head, doesn't it? It's true? So, yeah, I've never really been in the position to describe myself so holistically before, actually until this very podcast. Wow, I'm usually being interviewed as specifically one or the other, so this is wonderful actually, this is a quite interesting experience I'm having right now that's fantastic, I'm glad.

Sam Crane: 2:34

So normally, when you're separating yourself Rosie Bansley artist and Rosie Bansley helping other people to become the artist, I suppose is one way of looking at it. How do you differentiate the two and how can you bring the two together?

Rosie Bans: 2:48

The word facilitation is what differentiates the two. For me, when it's my art history, it's whatever the hell I want it to be. It's me expressing me as this individual, organic, cosmically connected being. And then, when I'm working in Be Radical Make Music, it's all about facilitating other people's creativity and holding space for other musicians. So that means making sure that I've got that head on, that I'm not interjecting with advice, that I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do.

Rosie Bans: 3:27

You know not that I would do that often, but it is really really important to hold that facilitator space to allow other people and other beings to to express, and sometimes it means that I've got to hold space for them to be really uncomfortable. And when I'm doing my artistry, it's me holding space for me to be really uncomfortable. So that's how they're really intertwined, because it's a pathway. They're both pathways and I can recognize myself and everyone else in each of them at any given time. But I see my role as the CEO of Be Rad to Co-Make Music as that, as one of holding space and facilitating.

Sam Crane: 4:09

That's a really interesting, cool way of looking at it for those that are listening and thinking you're at this space now. How did you get? How did Rosie Bands become Rosie Bands that they're listening to now?

Rosie Bans: 4:25

Wow With my music. It's not that interesting a story with my music and I realise well, you'll see what I mean. I realise how ridiculously lucky I've had it, not necessarily through resources or, you know, born into a musical family or any of that stuff, but just I've just never doubted that I can do it and I don't know why, and I've thought about it a lot, because in Be Radical, make Music. That's the space I'm holding a lot of the time for people is. They're just like can I choose me for this? And there's something about the chaos of being born at the time, the day, the hour of the people. You know all that stuff all together that made music from a very, very young age. It was a place for me to befriend myself, to be loud. I was very quiet, not quiet like shy quiet, but just very scared to speak up for myself. Whereas in music I could rock it out, I could punk it up, I could shout, I could scream, I could swear and I could get on a stage and do it and no one really was really that interested. Whereas if I was to do that in the spaces in my life as a young person that I wanted to scream and shout and swear I would have been shut down. So music from such a young age like really, really young was just there and my dad plays guitar, so I had that. Clearly His mum used to sing at the bowling club down the road and I never saw or witnessed this. I only witnessed my nana singing in the house, which was very in my very you know young years, was very old lady singing like oh no, apparently she was a bit of a yeah, a bit of a songbird in her day, but apart from that I had no model of what a professional musician looked like. I had no one around me. I'm from a from Glasgow city centre, grew up my council flat, went to a school that basically, you know, taught you how to do the bad stuff more than the good stuff, that kind of thing. But when I was 16 this is where this chaos that I'm not too sure you know how that comes about meets opportunity, meets support, meets facilitation.

Rosie Bans: 6:52

When I was about 16, I was getting piano lessons in high school right, and I didn't realize how unbelievably lucky that was at the time. My, my teacher when I started high school, when I was 11 or 12, saw that I could play a wee bit of keyboards, had a wee castle keyboard at home and she just saw it and she pulled me aside and kind of pushed me in a piano lessons without really asking and I was like, oh cool, yeah, this is great. And I think she really saw that. And so by the time I got to 16, I had a really good relationship with my piano teacher, who was kind of like a second mum to me. To be honest, she gave me a lot of mothering, a lot of nurturing, and I'm from a home that had a lot of alcoholism, so I loved that. I was like this is a beautiful space for me music, piano and I get this really motherly kind of figure to be around.

Rosie Bans: 7:45

You know who would always ask me about my life? And she said so, rosaline, that's my name, that's my full, my full Christian name. So, rosaline, you know what you're going to do after school. You know you're 16, what's happening? And I was like well, my teachers have all said that probably I should go and do science, so I'm probably going to go and do physics. And she was raging. She was like what? And I was like, have I done something wrong? She's like why, why? Why? Like why aren't you doing this? And I was like because I never knew I could. What would you mean? And she looked at me and she was like what do you think I've been doing my whole life?

Rosie Bans: 8:22

and I was like oh you know you're a musician, oh wow, in that moment all of the careers guidance, teachers, parents, you know, all the sort of kind of slightly being pushed into an area that I probably could have done but didn't feel much about that in a moment just disappeared and I was like I'm going to go and do music, I have just been given the permission and it's from a person I really, really trust, and those two things combined absolutely changed everything and from that point onwards, that's all I have done, literally is just music needs opportunities, someone to listen to you so when it comes to be radical, make music, I see a lot of echoes in that moment and the work that I want to do for other people and I see how important that can be.

Rosie Bans: 9:17

And I think we've got this really problematic narrative that you should be able to do it all by yourself. You should be able to just go follow your dreams. You know, almost like elbow people out the way, like they're getting in the way, when in my experience and my view of this world it's the absolute opposite. It's so 180 degrees. So that's the music artist side. And from the age of 16 I have just been like ah, let's do this, and not very strategic, not with loads of direction, just really feeling it out a lot.

Rosie Bans: 9:55

Actually, my like career has spanned from, you know, cds being the thing to the mini discs coming out and then mp3s happening. So I feel very lucky that I started my career in that era, because I had to quite quickly just shift and change. Oh, I need to learn some new technology right now. You know that has been the way I've done everything. It's just okay, like maybe a bit too anxious about it, but very in the moment, very reactive. I've had some amazing experiences because of that.

Rosie Bans: 10:27

So that's my story. It's like I say, it's not like the most sort of oh, I've done this thing, then I won this thing and it was just music's just been there, such a companion, such a a love, such a space of safety, such a space of warmth, such a space of safety, such a space of warmth, such a space of real holding the darkest, deepest, most painful parts of you. And then seeing that in other people who at the time were like authority to me, changed it all. So that's, I think that's the most interesting part of my story, to be really honest, because after that it's just like, yeah, I've done an album, you know, I've done a tour. Do you know what I mean?

Sam Crane: 11:08

That's to be really honest, because after that's, just like I've done an album, you know I've done a tour, it's. Do you know what I mean? It's that's the part that I really love and care about most. Well, thank you for sharing that part of that story with you, but I'm sure that our listeners would love to hear all the other parts about it. But certainly the way you came to it I love the way you talk about it and this teacher that just helped you and nurtured you and supported you like I think if everyone had someone like that, there will be a far better place, very different place, in a far better place. Yeah, so what a wonderful person that did that for you, but also you, for you to run with it as well. You could have been like, nah, I'm gonna go doing science, but you went. Wow, yes, what an opportunity I can now be me, I suppose, and go forward.

Rosie Bans: 11:44

Yeah, and I think that's the part that I honestly feel like so many of us don't have much control over, particularly at that age and at that stage, and we spend most of our lives beating ourselves up for bad decisions or what I should have done and I shouldn't have done.

Rosie Bans: 12:01

I honestly can't really take any credit for responding like that, because it wasn't a really conscious response. It was a gut response, and had I had a different you know even just one variable in my life being different, one small thing, it could have been such a different response. And so I think that we need to be very diligently forgiving ourselves on a consistent basis, like a practice of forgiveness, because so much of this stuff if anyone's listening, who isn't where they want to be or, even worse, isn't where they think they should be it all has to start from appreciating that there's thousands of decisions you've made that you you didn't actually make. You know what I mean. There's just so many factors at play, but what's the most important thing is now this next decision, the one that's happening right in this moment yeah, because the path that we're trying or doing, it's not encouraged in mainstream life, it's not understood, it's not even appreciated sometimes.

Sam Crane: 13:09

But there's something within us all that is we're going to do this no matter what yeah, I'd say it's.

Rosie Bans: 13:15

This is really hard, but it's a compulsion. I have to do it and then we get stuck in that little loop of this is really hard, but I really have to do this and and I feel it too at times, I really really still feel it. I witness it in people a lot and that's with Be Radical, make Music. That is my mission is to soothe that, because when that can get soothed, that little like knot that we can get tied in, that's when the big changes happen. And I don't think it ever stops necessarily feeling hard, but you become very wise as to why it feels how it does and who you are and what one of those things you're going to choose. You know.

Sam Crane: 13:55

I think as well, the more skills you learn, you'll have to learn so many skills to have so many of these hats that you're wearing, and each time you learn a new skill it's going to make it, I would imagine, easier to go down this path.

Rosie Bans: 14:10

It definitely comes with less friction for sure, because you can't think your way out of the fact that it's still very emotionally taxing and very emotionally difficult. And you must nurture that and you must love that part, because that's kind of the crack where the light gets through. And the social media campaigns and the spotify streams and all the other stuff to me they are the fruit on the tree, but they're not the tree. The tree is your creative practice and when you're only just trying to grow the fruit, you're just getting these kind of rotten apples coming off. Why is it like this? Why is it like this? You've got this little lopsided tree that's like I just need some water.

Rosie Bans: 14:50

You know, and I honestly, truly believe, after almost 15 years of being an artist and just over two years of running, be Radical, make Music if you water that plant and that is the main thing you focus on that all the fruits will just come easier. It will all be easier. There's all the business side. It will be easier if you're really, really solid on why you're doing this, what it means to you, and if the sun explodes tomorrow, I'll be sitting in my room writing a song about some boy that dumped me five years ago probably, so I will be, and that's.

Sam Crane: 15:29

I'm okay with that that's cool, that's great advice and that moves us quite nicely on to the second part of this podcast. The title is and from what you've said and from what I've seen of you, you must have so many things now that you never thought you'd say I'd be running my own company, or you know I don't want to put words into your mouth, so I'd love to hear from you maybe about five things that you now are doing that you probably didn't think you would say. And also, if you were to give a friend advice on if they were struggling or wanting to do one of these, what advice would you give them, based on what you already know now?

Rosie Bans: 16:16

I'd say pretty much everything I've said so far on this podcast is something I never thought I would say. Definitely, let's take this podcast, for example. I've been listening to podcasts for I don't even know decades now probably over 10 years when's podcast didn't even begin. The fact that I have a podcast that people listen to and email me about and send me messages about and cry to, sometimes that still blows my mind, because I never thought that would ever happen. I never thought that the way I would see the world would help so many people, so many musicians, to just see their own world in a different way. And it is not about us seeing the world the same way ever. It's about us accepting that we will never see the world the same way, and there's such a beauty in that. So yeah, having a podcast, that was a big one, and I remember when I started the radical make music it was the first thing. I was like I'm gonna have a podcast, I've got a business, now I'm just gonna run it. I had no idea what I was doing and I was trying to make it all dead professional. Now I literally just turn on this microphone and talk for half an hour and they are the best episodes. They are the most popular ones, the ones that have the most impact. So I'm going to kind of piggyback this second question, my piece of advice on that. One thing that I never thought I would say is, if you want to start the podcast, just turn on the mic. If you want to start the YouTube channel, just turn it on. It's going to suck for a bit. Right, you might get lucky and like on YouTube, where there's an algorithm involved, you've got to actually turn it on and do the thing, and there's a lot of people sitting thinking about it. It's like get some urgency and just turn it on, feel it out and deal with the vulnerability hangover tomorrow, because you probably have one. But in the moment, believe in that. It's not believing in yourself. It's believing in that emotional sensation you're having. That's what's real, this stuff in our head like can I do it? Can I not do it? There are no answers to that. There are no answers to that. There's just do you want to do it? That's the part we need to believe in, because everything else is fiction and fantasy. So that's definitely a thing. My podcast.

Rosie Bans: 18:37

I never thought I would own a company that fulfills me in so many ways, but that also has been. It's been a struggle at times running an online business, as I'm just one person, I have no team. I do every single part of my business right now and that's not to be a martyr, it's just where I'm at. I never thought that I would be running a business that was financially supporting my life, that was creatively giving me all these wild and wonderful opportunities that I've never had before, that I genuinely love that I now and I mean if you had interviewed me, like six months ago, we would have been looking at just a pile of hot garbage over here in terms of what I felt about my my uh, where my business is at when I was going, how I felt. But this business has taught me so much about myself.

Rosie Bans: 19:31

I never thought that I would say that I genuinely lived my life free of anxiety, other than the times when anxiety is needed, like I nearly got knocked down by a bus or you know but I was diagnosed with chronic anxiety or general anxiety disorder back in 2015 and it plagued my entire physical being, has been in the net of anxiety for the majority of my life on the planet and I genuinely never thought I would say there's a time in your life, rosie, where you wake up, live a day, go to bed and feel peaceful and have peace and feel calm and feel like you're in your own skin.

Rosie Bans: 20:15

And I know that's not musical related, but I think that I could probably put money on the majority of us listening creative types, musicians, highly sensitive people, highly emotional people, really really open-hearted, observing everything in this space that we're in and feeling it, and for a lot of us that comes out as anxiety, fear, depression. You know we are, we're the feelers, we're the seers, we're the speakers of this world as artists. So I never thought I would say that that's not my experience and it's been a real interesting path and I think Be Radical, make Music has been the vehicle in which that I've managed to get here, because it sort of ramped it up. When I first started my business it went really to the top and I or the bottom, depending how you want to look at it, you know and my last experience of burnout and anxiety wow, the mother loads of lessons. I'm seeing it as a beautiful teaching, a beautiful, wonderful space. So that's definitely something I never thought I'd see.

Sam Crane: 21:32

And advice on that well done for turning the corner or managing to manage it, or however it is that you're dealing with it now it's a hard road.

Rosie Bans: 21:43

It's a really hard road for anyone who's dealing with you know, real chronic anxiety, depression. I mean the people I work with, the students and clients. I hate the word clients. I say students, but they teach me all the time like I get to sit back and see this huge variety of human being all kind of want to do the same thing. But that's so cool because you're like there and you've got that going on and this is how you're responding and this person's doing the opposite, but then they've got this other thing happening and I get to see it all you know and I'm so nosy and I love knowing what happened in people's lives, why I love podcasts. So this business has been really beautiful for that. So my advice to anyone based on that point is if you want to start the business, I'm a pure action taker. I'm like, do it now and think about it later a wee bit. You know, have you?

Sam Crane: 22:35

always done that and has it ever bit you in the bum?

Rosie Bans: 22:38

oh, it's bit me in the bum hundreds of times. But I see it again like the sandcastle analogy. Let's put a caveat there as long as it's safe, which means you know, don't sink next month's rent and you start on your business, kind of thing. Like I'm also, like I mentioned, very, um, being quite anxious person. Um, uh, what is it?

Rosie Bans: 22:59

My pals would say that I am very pain, avoid, no, fear, avoidant no, that's not right adverse, like I don't want to put myself in a situation that's a bit dodgy or a bit risky. So I'll take a lot of action. But action doesn't need to look like, you know, starting the business and spending five grand. It can literally look like going on the company's house and paying the whatever is 25 quid to open the business. Like that is literally a big, huge action, even if you don't have that. If you're at a point where you're like I don't even have 25 quid, it's make your business name, set up a Facebook page, start telling people. You know, it can be like that.

Rosie Bans: 23:41

But yeah, there have been a lot of times which bit me on the butt and it came from not having boundaries, mainly. So it's came from taking action without having non-negotiables in place for when the reaction happens against that action. So that will look like booking a 36 day tour around Europe with no breaks. You know what I mean. Like no boundaries, no sense of you need to rest. That you know. It was just like I gotta work, I've gotta do it, I've gotta get, I've gotta be successful. And that amazing action moved big things. But I suffered a lot for it. So now it's the opposite. I'm like sorry, honey, resting today, four day work week over here, you know, because it's actually the. We think that it's the opposite than how it is. We think the more I do, the more I'll get when, actually, if you let go a wee bit and just go, do you know what?

Sam Crane: 24:42

maybe if I rest and I just chill and I just really work on being okay with that, then maybe I'll have more energy and make better choices so, yeah, so we're here with Rosie Banz and she's been sharing with us her journey to get her to where she is now and things that she never thought she'd say, which is quite a lot, I mean, as a female musician. I'm just listening to all this going oh, my goodness, you are one of those jump and you'll grow wings type of people, aren't you? Yeah, I think so. Type of people, aren't you? Yeah, I think so. That's great advice you're giving. You know, obviously, be aware of don't spend money that you don't have and don't do things that is going to affect you badly, but just go for it, because you never know, and I suppose you're only going to manage to do things if you do.

Rosie Bans: 25:30

It makes sense, but yeah, many people do that yeah, in a way, I've been given a huge gift, where I was there when my mum passed away, holding her hand, and witnessed at a relatively young age how real mortality is like this is real, this isn't some fictional concept and at that point in my life quite a few family members passed away within a month of each other, so it was pretty hardcore, it's pretty hard done and it has now at this age. That happened when I was 19 and I'm almost 36.

Sam Crane: 26:07

Now I feel like wow, like what a universal gift to go through that and to absorb it in that way and be like right, okay, well, let's do this, you know well let's play this game and that's an amazing way of looking at it, because a lot of people would be like kind of woe is me and feeling sorry for themselves and they're lost. I'm sure that you obviously you grieved and it was that sense of loss. But the way of taking that and seeing it as a gift, to witness it and to realise that we need to do everything we can in our lifetime because we have no idea when it ends, basically, yeah.

Rosie Bans: 26:52

Yeah, that's it, and it took a long time, took a lot of therapy, a lot of therapy, a lot of therapy and a lot of like working on peace as well. I think I don't think I ever actually felt the I don't know if it's an emotion or it's just an experience of peace in my body until 2020, just before the pandemic, before the lockdown hit. But that took a really long time to get there and lots and lots and lots of hours of, like I said, therapy, meditation, but yeah, the narratives that we tell ourselves and deep down inside us, I we're just here for an experience and I think love is the main part of that. When we make our music, we connect with it. We connect with that love. When we're in flow and we're really into it, we're like this is the best song I think anybody's ever wrote. You know that moment you have you can't stop listening to your own song. Oh, it's a great chorus, this. And then, after a couple of days, you're like oh, excellent, it's alright.

Rosie Bans: 27:53

That feeling though, that's being in love with yourself, we're taught that's not cool. You know, it's big headed, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. If you can't be like that's a banging tune, and I wrote that, yes, even for 10 minutes. Wow, you're missing out on a lot of good vibes and good hormones and you know all the inner chemicals.

Rosie Bans: 28:17

So I suppose that would take me to another thing I never thought I would say, which is I love myself. And I never, ever, ever, thought I would say that I never. I absolutely. It's not even that I hated myself before. I was so uncomfortable with myself. That's what my I was so uncomfortable with myself. That's what my experience was. I was so uncomfortable I'd open my mouth and I would hear myself. You know, from the outside, you know that experience and it was your judgments and it was just deeply uncomfortable to live inside this, this wee, glasgow, very pale body, and be like I'm worth it. That's okay. But now it's a mothering of just it's okay honey, it's okay darling, it's all right, hen, don't worry, and I don't know where that voice came from, but I believe that it was always there in all of us. I think it's there. So that's definitely something I never, ever, thought I would say oh, that's incredible.

Sam Crane: 29:27

I and that's the journey I'm on at the moment actually learning to, to love myself I'm kind of getting there, but the way you just blurted it out was just beautiful and gorgeous. And if you listen, well, you are listening. But if you see Rosie when she said it, oh it was just. I could see rainbows and all confetti and everything all around you when he did that. It was so incredible. So, thank you. It's a brave thing to say, which is stupid. It should be something we can say all the time to ourselves, but it does seem like a brave thing for you to say that out loud in front of people.

Rosie Bans: 30:00

But thank you for sharing that with us yeah, there's a consequence to it in our society.

Sam Crane: 30:05

Yes, yeah this leads us so well into this last part of the podcast here with rosie vans. So we've heard about who she is as a person and also the things that she's never thought she'd say she's now doing because of all the things she's managed to achieve. Is there anything that you're struggling with at the moment or finding challenging that you can now bring what you've learned about yourself in your life and apply that to where you're at at the moment to move forward?

Rosie Bans: 30:34

yes, burnout, that has been the overarching theme of 2023 for me and, with everything that I've said on the podcast so far, I will honestly put my hands up and say 2023 was one of the most challenging years I've ever had in my life. I started 2023 in a seriously dangerous health space because of burnout, and so this year has felt like I almost feel like I've been clawing out of a dark hole. You know, but how much I've learned, to the point where I'm genuinely considering, in the year or years ahead, bringing everything I've learned into Be Radical, make Music, because I see this in so many musicians burnout and the definition of burnout and now that is an actual, properly defined, clinically diagnosable experience. Properly defined, clinically diagnosable experience, it's chronic workplace stress. So if you're a musician and your workplace is your home and your workplace is your instrument, in a position where you're really struggling with imposter syndrome, you're really struggling with your confidence, maybe you're really trapped in comparison and jealousy. That's all going to shoot your cortisol levels up. Your adrenaline levels are going to shoot your cortisol levels up. Your adrenaline levels are going to shift and that is going to exhaust your physical body. You know, and that's how burnout starts to happen. You just can't get a break from it. So I'm still recovering, definitely still in recovery, and that's been a big challenge, at the same time as this rocky road paved with diamonds where you get oh wow, there's a new boundary. You know, if I keep holding this, I can see a way now to move forward and achieve whatever it is that I want, without it being at my own detriment.

Rosie Bans: 32:24

I think it's a constant evaluation that we need to have, and I also again, this is a theme of the podcast today it's not all your fault. Hardly any of it is your fault. We live in a patriarchal, white supremacist world where you'll get clapped, you'll literally get rounds of applause for martyring yourself for the sake of making someone else some kind of end of year bonus in the ceo room, oh, and you know so. And so she's just so dedicated to her work, she's so busy, she's never got time for that, or that's okay. But the you know the musician that goes on three writing holidays a year. Oh, how dare she. Who is she? You know how audacious and it's like, wow, one of those people is supporting their health, their well-being, their artistry. It's beautiful, but I do believe that the reaction that society has is a from place brainwashing, because we're told from a young age nine to 5.

Rosie Bans: 33:25

You're in primary school, 9 to 5. What is that? An exact replica of the working life, the working world, monday, friday, but also it's the reflection, isn't? It's the mirror, the law of mirroring? Or or the fractals. You know, the universe is full of these fractals where I see you do something. It really is me saying me do something.

Rosie Bans: 33:48

So, yeah, burnout from that. That's been a big challenge. But learning everything I've learned, committing to the relationship I have with myself just the same way I commit to the relationship with my partner, like sitting down, having actual talk out loud meetings with myself. I highly recommend them. I put my headphones in, yeah, I put my my phone headphones in. I go for a walk and I record myself talking to myself and then I listen back as if it's a friend, leave me a whatsapp and just pour love and just you see these little places I go. Oh, so you think you can do five things today, rosie, let's choose two, you know, and that really helps big time. And just continuing to work on that self-awareness.

Rosie Bans: 34:39

Ultimately, I think we can lose the love for ourselves when we let our self-awareness slip through the back door like bye. It's going to leave the autopilot running, which is what society built into us. That's the autopilot. That's my biggest challenge right now and I'm very open about it on my podcast, been talking about it all year. Everybody's just all right, rosie, come on, go for a lie down, will we?

Rosie Bans: 35:00

And then even with my students as well, in my communities we talk a lot about I bring what's going on in my life because of everything I've said, that I'm not separate, really like, what I experience isn't in a vacuum, it's not on an island. What I experience, you probably will or have, so that's been a beautiful way. So I suppose advice on that is, if you are feeling that same challenge, talk, open, express, let it leave your body in whatever manner works for you verbal, physical writing, start to witness yourself on a page or on an audio note or in front of your friends and it takes a lot of courage. But I think that that would be my advice because that's what's worked for me. It might work for you too.

Sam Crane: 35:51

That's brilliant. Well, thank you, and what would you say? Your we'll finish off with this, I think. What's your future going to look like? Because we've seen what your past has been like, this beautiful journey that's taken you to now, with the challenges like burnout and finding a place of self-love, and all this awareness. What can you look forward to in your future?

Rosie Bans: 36:12

right. So I used to be a five-year plan, kind of lassie right, and then I realized that's stressful, that contributed to my burnout. So I've made this uncomfortable but very powerful decision to only plan a couple of weeks in advance maximum a month in my business and in my life and I find myself fantasizing about the future and I could do this and I could do that, and I want to grab a pen and I want to get the google doc open and I want to open the calendar and I'm very consciously having no, no. And so what my future looks like now to me is this beautiful, expansive openness that has never looked like before. It's always been very narrow and it's been. If I don't walk that narrow path, I've failed, because that's the future, whereas now, because of this boundary of, boundary of okay, we're only going to plan a couple of weeks in advance, month in advance, and then we'll see how we feel when we get to the end of that period. It's made it really exciting. It's given me a lot more energy back because I can be reactive and anyone who's listening, who is like into human design or has looked into that modality I'm a generator and that is the kind of group of people who are very responsive. I need to have something to respond to, and when I make a plan for the future, I have nothing to respond to anymore. It's just there. So I will give you, though, something a bit more practical than that.

Rosie Bans: 37:48

But I just thought that might be quite interesting to hear that there's a great book called it doesn't have to be crazy at work, and that's for anyone who's looking to start some kind of business they kind of businessy, but it's about that sort of way of looking at your work, your life. You don't need to have these huge big five-year plans. I live my whole life believing that you do, and you're some kind of failure if you don't even know what you're going to do in five years. You know, I mean, it's like I'm not here. Does that book again? Do you have the who? It's by as well. It doesn't have to be crazy work. It's two authors, by jason freed and david heinemeier hansen excellent book. Could be boring if you're not in a business in marketing and stuff, but I think if you're a solo artist or a you know music artist, you're going to get into marketing at some point. It's going to become your bag, like you're going to start to love that stuff because it's kind of addictive.

Rosie Bans: 38:40

So the future for me? I see the future as serving as many music makers as I can, and that's in the form of workshops, events, courses, songwriting retreats, music retreats and the podcast, even on my email list. That is the future for that side of my business, my life, and that's it, that. That is my goal. I just I'm like just more people come in, let's do this thing together, and the more of us that are on board with doing our music, getting out there and just enjoying this whole wonderful journey how cool is that right, the better it is for all of us.

Rosie Bans: 39:23

And then, with my music this year of burnout, I got really knocked off my creativity and my connection with myself. So the last two months have been wonderful, since October, start of October and I'm just in a really beautiful place with my music. And so the future for that is releasing a lot of music next year, so lots of singles coming out, and I'm very excited about that. It takes a lot, doesn't it? It does. So lots of rest, everybody. Please do make sure you get good bedtime, lots of water, stay hydrated, because none of this works without that stuff so true.

Sam Crane: 40:00

So for our listeners to find you if they want to work with you or listen to your music. How will they find you?

Rosie Bans: 40:07

come and get me on instagram at rosie bands, and if you're interested in be radical, make music. That's at be radical. Make music on instagram as well, and you can send me a dm. I love dms. I'm a talker, in case you didn't notice, so you'll get a voice note back or email me rosiebandsanscom, beradicalmusiccom. All over there. You can google my name and it should come up too, so come find me and say hello brilliant and we'll put details in the show notes anyway so people can come and find you.

Sam Crane: 40:39

This has been so wonderful. I knew talking with you is going to be so much fun and so much wisdom as well, because we met in London and we chatted there with Isabel. So Isabel that we've had on the podcast as well it's absolutely incredible and you've been doing work with her and speaking to you. I knew you. You were so much fun and you're so fantastic as well, and I knew you'd be an amazing, inspiring woman for our listeners. I was so excited when you said you were going to come on the podcast. So thank, thank you so much, rosie.

Rosie Bans: 41:10

Oh, sam, thank you so much. And right back at you as well, you are like an energetic force. Honestly, I'm very excited for everything that's coming out from your side as well in your artistry. So it's a total pleasure. It's a total pleasure, thank you.

Sam Crane: 41:25

Wow, what a woman and what an interview. Did you enjoy that? Did you learn anything about how to look after yourself whilst navigating your life? I know I did. Thank you so much, rosie Banz, for being a guest here. The show notes and be sure to subscribe to find out when the next episode is coming out. We'd love to hear your comments, so do get in touch, but for now this has been sponsored by. I am your host, sam Crane. Thanks for listening and enjoy the rest of your day. Things I couldn't do yesterday, I do them today. Things I never thought I'd say.