People at the Core
From The Greenpoint Palace bar in Brooklyn, New York writers and bartenders, Rita and Marisa, have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar.
People at the Core
From Serving to Dishing It Up, James Beard Award-winning Food & Drink Writer, Adam Reiner, Spills the Tea on the Hospitality Industry
Ever wondered what restaurant staff are really thinking when you sit down at their table? Adam—a veteran server turned James Beard Award-winning food writer (he won after this episode was recorded!) —pulls back the curtain on the high-stakes world of New York hospitality in this revealing conversation.
From fabricating his resume to land his first restaurant gig at a comedy-themed Times Square spot to eventually working at prestigious establishments like Carbone and Babbo, Adam shares the unconventional path that led him from "salty waiter" to respected food journalist. His journey reveals the hidden economic realities of restaurant work, where fine dining servers can earn six-figure "lawyer money" while navigating complex workplace dynamics.
The conversation takes unflinching looks at hospitality's darker sides – the hereditary cycles of kitchen abuse, the impossible expectations placed on service staff to be "psychoanalysts, comedians, and therapists" simultaneously, and the unspoken rules that govern dining experiences. Adam explains why questioning a bad tip remains taboo, how international visitors navigate tipping culture, and why camping at tables disrupts an entire restaurant's ecosystem.
This episode transforms how you'll think about your next dining experience. Adam's forthcoming book "The New Rules of Dining Out: An Insider's Guide to Enjoying Restaurants" positions dining as a collaborative partnership rather than a one-way service transaction. "You can have bad experiences at great restaurants and great experiences at bad restaurants," he reflects, "but the one constant in both scenarios is you."
Ready to become a more mindful diner who gets better service? Listen now and discover the power of understanding what's happening behind the scenes during your next restaurant visit. Then check out Adam's upcoming book – available for pre-order now – to master the unwritten rules of dining that can transform your experiences forever.
Adam Reiner's Writing:
We Need to Talk About Trader Joe's
Pre-order: The New Rules of Dining Out: An Insider's Guide to Enjoying Restaurants
Mentions:
The Principles of Etiquette by Emily Post
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Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
From the Greenpoint Palace Bar in Brooklyn, new York, writers and bartenders Rita and Marissa have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar. This is People at the Core.
Speaker 3:Hi, hey, hey, what's up?
Speaker 2:It's been a frustrating start. It's been a very frustrating start, yeah, uh-huh as the uninformed, untechnically savvy producer. So it's a challenging start. So bear with us, not sure how this is gonna turn out, but we got everything rolling. Um, it's a rainy Wednesday. We also don't usually record on Wednesdays, so maybe that's just weird.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know either all right but we have a guest with us.
Speaker 2:We do um, so let's pop right in here um.
Speaker 2:I wrote this last night, so please don't be insulted and I don't know affectionately known as the formerly salty waiter amongst his friends, adam has worked for some of the biggest names in new york restaurant industry. He has since left the floor and dedicated himself to the page from his blog, restaurant Manifesto, to having written for the likes of Taste Punch Food and Wine Eater Grub Street and more. He was recently nominated for a James Beard award for a piece he did on Trader Joe's Would love to talk about that and has a book on the etiquette of dining coming out this fall. I'm sure you want to clarify or fine tune my descriptions.
Speaker 4:I just want to talk about the salty waiter reputation that I have Like. Can we get into that a?
Speaker 2:little bit. It's so much love.
Speaker 4:Oh my God, what are people saying about me?
Speaker 2:No, I think you have channeled your.
Speaker 4:Rage.
Speaker 2:Informed opinions into productivity. It's hard when you're working for other people.
Speaker 4:You know that's an interesting way of saying it. I think that might be true. I speak from my own experience as well but did they think that I was like a bad waiter?
Speaker 2:no, no, no, it, no, no. It's just like you're the best at what you do, but you definitely are like Because I think I was salty like behind the scenes. I think you, just as a person, got a little sass.
Speaker 4:I know, I think I could put a game face on, though, when necessary.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's coworkers, friends, lovingly.
Speaker 4:Yes, I do have a tendency to let my emotions get carried away when I especially when I talk about things related to restaurants. I've noticed that lately too, like people get, I think, a little overwhelmed by some of the things that I'm passionate about when I talk about hospitality, and perhaps it got a little bit salty at the time.
Speaker 2:But I think with I think you were just saying things that people were thinking, or articulating things in a way that the people didn't have the vocabulary for perhaps I mean it really lovingly.
Speaker 4:I haven't worked with you wrong word passionate you're passionate um, and especially passionate, I think, about, the people that work in restaurants and, you know, defending their honor yeah, you are like fairness police, and this comes from people who you have protected or pulled into um different work. Yeah, salty is not really that wrong. It's not wrong I have to. I can admit I can be salty. I can be salty at times. Oh my God. As a bar owner, I'm extremely salty.
Speaker 3:Are you kidding me?
Speaker 4:But I'm team restaurant people, no matter what ride or die. I don't care what anybody says, I will to the death. I will stand by anything that restaurant people say or do. If there's two sides to the story, I know which one I'm believing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so. So when, how did you get involved in hospitality, like, was that your first job? Was that first? You're not from New York.
Speaker 4:No, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs and then I went to college in, like central Illinois. Okay, um okay. My uncle, who I was very close with, sadly passed away ten years ago, lived in New York and I always wanted to live in New York and when I came here I had no clue what I was doing.
Speaker 4:I had a degree in liberal arts which was like completely useless you know I studied like speech communications and I like had a minor in cinema studies, but I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And my uncle had a friend who got me a job in like an ad sales firm and I was in like in this job for about seven months and it was basically like sitting in a cubicle. It was like an executive assistant role, but in some ways it was just basically being like a secretary to an executive, but in some ways it was just basically being like a secretary to an executive and all I did all day was like data entry and answer stupid phone calls from people that were in the same type of roles that I was in but on the ad, on the. So we were selling ads for syndicated television programs and so like I was talking to people on the ad agency side, right, but, this was really pre-cell phone.
Speaker 4:So you've got your landline and you're talking to these people and your Rolodex and everybody was fucking bored out of their mind all day.
Speaker 1:All day bored out of your mind.
Speaker 4:Nothing to do. The most exciting moment of your day is you go into, like the kitchen where there's like free snacks.
Speaker 1:And you get some free snacks Right.
Speaker 4:That's the most exciting part of your day. So, like luckily for me, this company was taken over by, I think, fox at the time Okay, and they laid everybody off. So within seven or eight months, first job in the city. I don't even think I had an apartment yet when I got the job.
Speaker 2:I was living with my uncle, but you're staying at the YMCA.
Speaker 4:No, but I actually looked at the 92nd Street Y to try to find a place.
Speaker 2:I was like it's a bad thing, like people think it's like a movie show. No, I know.
Speaker 4:And this was also like there weren't the same people didn't go about trying to find a place in New York city the same way they do now, but anyway they I got laid off and it was like a really great learning experience for me in a lot of ways, because I kind of very early on learned how cruel New York city could be. Number one, because you're, like so expendable and, like I, got laid off. I you know what my salary was when I worked this job, and I'm not kidding you $19,000 a year.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, that was my salary $19,000 a year Right.
Speaker 4:And I had benefits or whatever, which I'm sure are better than benefits today.
Speaker 1:Probably.
Speaker 4:That seems preposterous, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1:I was an executive assistant at an ad sales firm and my and my salary my starting salary was $19,000 a year, and this was not in 1976.
Speaker 4:This was like 1996 or seven. And so I got laid off. I got like a severance package which, when you're making $19,000 a year, is like not that much.
Speaker 2:It was like gift card to target.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was like Starbucks for for a week and so after that I got laid off my job. I had no job and I started to look around for jobs and I took a job. I interviewed for a job at a theme restaurant in Times Square and I had no experience.
Speaker 1:So I lied.
Speaker 4:It was a comedy-themed restaurant that was owned by Caroline of Caroline's Comedy Club, oh okay, and it was on 49th and Broadway and it was called Comedy Nation. Ew, and I went into the interview. I had no restaurant experience. My resume was complete bullshit. I made it all up. I made up names of restaurants. Yeah, yeah, I made up names of restaurants.
Speaker 2:Like what? What was your fantasy made up restaurant? One of the names.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's been a long time. I can't tell you what it was, but whatever it was, it was like somewhat credible for the time Again, like this was like a time where you just didn't have this Because people weren't Googling shit, there wasn't AI, I couldn't AI my resume.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right, totally lying.
Speaker 4:But I did really good on the the interview and I fudged it really well and I got hired and I was a part of this like opening team for a theme restaurant at a time where theme restaurants were like the cat's pajamas like people actually were like went to theme restaurants yeah, they loved them.
Speaker 2:This is like planet Hollywood days yeah, I think we need a medieval times. Everybody was trying to do that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean you know, mars 2012 came after this place, but sadly this place had a really short run. I think it was only open like maybe three years. I actually got fired from this job long story but not worth getting into today and um, but what I realized, I think, when I worked that job is that sort of like sense of finding your tribe, and the people that I was working with were like me. They were like kind of artists. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I had background in theater and I kind of thought I could be a stand-up comedian.
Speaker 4:When I worked at this restaurant, we got comped to all the comedy shows if they weren't sold out, so we would literally finish our shift at the restaurant and then we would go downstairs.
Speaker 4:It was connected to Caroline's Comedy Club oh, that's cool and we would be able to get comped to shows if there were free seats. And we saw people like mitch hedberg, dave attell oh wow brian regan, kevin meanie, all the like you know big names. And there were also people at the time like, I think, like dave chapelle, who were like really up and coming and they were opening for all these dudes. So, like, I don't think I ever really made that much money there, like right I probably like maxed out at maybe like 150 a night, which was good in 1990, I guess it was probably 1997, um, but it more than paid for itself in being able to just be around this environment where it was exciting and there was people having fun, we, we got to wear costumes and we got to play characters at the table. I I used to dress up as Elvis, like fat Elvis.
Speaker 4:And like they, they had this um, they call it the well.
Speaker 4:It was built to emulate the laughing wall where like people popped out of the windows and so the banquette tables at this restaurant, uh, on this one side where the laughing wall was, they had these windows that were above the tables so they would turn off the music and then the staff would come in and pop out the windows and be like, hey, how you doing, I got a joke for you and then close it and uh, again like I think that, just like what's probably clear in the story that I'm telling you is that it was really fun, like it was a fun job and it really almost didn't matter, like whether we were making more money.
Speaker 4:I just came from working a 1919,000 a year cubicle job.
Speaker 4:And all of a sudden I was like, wow, you can hang out with all these people who have all these different backgrounds and they're interesting people and they just like me, they don't know what they're doing and then like for like. Because of that I think it kind of put me on a track where I realized you can make a lot of money doing this. I worked at a couple of other jobs after that. One was with a company called Be Our Guest, which was kind of one of the young at the time, freshly thinking New York City restaurant group that was training kind of the next generation of restaurant professionals to be what they are today.
Speaker 4:But, nobody was really doing that back then and that group of people a lot of them these days are in GM positions director of ops because you know there didn't really exist this like career of restaurants. And once I hit that sort of stride where, like I realized, if you learn about a lot about wine, about cocktails, about food, you can make even more money doing this.
Speaker 4:Then I started to get into like the fine dining sort of scene and I worked at places like Babo and, you know, in more recent years, places like Carbone, where it's like when you're working, even as a waiter, in some of these jobs you're making like lawyer money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 4:Like I don't think that people realize necessarily, when you work at some of these top new york city restaurants as a tipped server, you can make 150 000 a year oh yeah, I mean, we have friends at like, at emp and stuff that I mean, that's, that's a career, that's a career, a very
Speaker 4:well-paid career yeah, and it's. It's also, I think, like a little bit of a dead end too, where you can get sucked into this life, where, yeah, and you know, I think, there isn't really anywhere to to move up, and if you move up.
Speaker 3:You're a manager, you're a manager, and then your life is over yeah, and you also rarely get.
Speaker 4:You are rarely make as much money. So in that world if you're not opening, opening someplace and then opening a million more places, then you know you're probably kind of stuck. But it's not a bad place to be stuck in because you are around really cool people. I've met so many amazing people in my restaurant life lifelong friends that will outlast the lifespan of all of the restaurants that. I've been to. You know and and I owe the restaurant industry, I think, a lot for that.
Speaker 2:I mean Ken and I. We met and I broke my rule like you don't shit where you eat, but it's been 18 years.
Speaker 4:But he's just that charming.
Speaker 2:He's just that charming, but also the group at that particular restaurant. We lose count of how many babies, how many marriages, how many relationships were formed from that group, because it is, it's your college, it's your dorm, it's your daily. You see these people more than you see your families or your significant others. And yeah, and then you're also in high stress situations. So you bring in comic relief, you bring in tears, you bring in yeah, you know, sneaking snacks and drinks and well under, not to interrupt, but the management thing though I mean the only reason, the main reason why I own this bar now is because you know I was managing and you know, started as a bar back, went to managing, then to director of operations, making, you know, over six figures.
Speaker 3:Well, six figures, but my boyfriend at the time was like you know, I did the math. Uh, because, I was working so much it was a dollar 29 an hour oh my god, that's what it because I was, you know, 30 days on 30, a couple of days off, 30 days on a couple days off, 16, 17 hour days, you know. So, like it is, it is a tough one.
Speaker 2:I get why they can't find managers, because they're underpaid, overworked and you're just dealing with the not fun parts, like you're actually not talking about food and beverage and experience. You're managing humans who are overly stressed, who are like tired and aka babysitting I was just gonna say that we hired our manager.
Speaker 3:That's the first thing I said is listen, I'm gonna be real honest, I'm not sexy, this is just adult babysitting yeah, you know at the end of the day and you are gonna get overworked, you're gonna get called all theed, you're going to get called all the time, you're going to get slacked all the time and you're only going to get paid this much money and you're not in the pool.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like yeah, so you, you did a cool. I don't know exactly what you did. I know that carbone sent you to hong kong to open, did you? Were you doing managerial stuff or were you training like server stuff?
Speaker 4:like yeah, I actually that's how I got hired for that company, because they had a like, a principal like the. The technical term for this job is brand ambassador. Okay, as Carbone has a like a flagship in New York, but they have also have several other locations. This is the only location in Hong Kong that they have. That's overseas so it's really important, I think, for them to have somebody to be a liaison between the New York group and to know the culture and to translate that.
Speaker 4:And they have partners, also in Hong Kong, who operate the restaurant.
Speaker 4:And they're kind of like, in some ways, the major food group of Hong Kong Very savvy, very competent company, a very successful company. So if they wanted to, they could run it on their own. They wouldn't need New York. But having somebody there from New York is a really important thing just to bring that sort of sense of swagger. So to answer your question, like my role there was to be kind of like a presence in the restaurant but also to train people. I would do classes like culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know like some of the classes I.
Speaker 4:It was a really fun job for a lot of different reasons the travel was extraordinary.
Speaker 4:I was there for about nine months but like I took a very creative approach to that job, which I don't think my predecessor was a little bit more of like kind of left brain person and like really really good at his job. But for me, like I wanted to try to like reach the staff in a different way and one of my big goals was to try to get them to understand more about New York, because most of them had never traveled to New York before. So, like some of these concepts about what they're doing and how they're acting are really like in their mind. They're very abstract mind. They're very, uh, abstract, you know. So I would do things like carbone has a playlist, that's all.
Speaker 4:Like these doo-wop music kind of rap pack music, yeah, and like I would do classes to teach them about all the songs you know, like I would be like, because there were, you know, rap pack means nothing cultural ambassador?
Speaker 4:yes, well, I mean translator I would do a lot on the floor too, because people that haven't traveled to Hong Kong really don't understand a lot about what Hong Kong is Like. Hong Kong is filled with a lot of expats and there's a lot of people that come from all over the world that work in Hong Kong.
Speaker 4:So when you have these, like Western restaurants, they're not usually filled with local hong kongese or chinese there are people from mainland china who come in and they want to go to these places that they're hearing about or buzzed about right, but the. You know, I would say at least probably 30 of the clientele are from all over the world, most of them english speaking and they're just looking for, like maybe a taste of something that is a little bit more familiar, so like we're serving veal parm and we're serving rigatoni, but it's not like everybody in the dining room is like has never seen this before.
Speaker 4:But the staff really like. For a lot of them, this is all really conceptual to them. So just getting them to understand a little bit more about the Italian American culture which I'm no expert in, but enough that I worked in the New York restaurant prior to going out there and had that frame of reference to be able to try to help some of these people bring a little bit of that swagger. Because when it comes to service too you guys know this like New York has its own sort of separate style of hospitality.
Speaker 4:Like if we want to shit all over you, we'll shit all over you and some people like that, some people like that. So like if you do it right and you really like calibrate it to the right point, you can be mean to someone and make them still feel cared for, and that's not exactly. I'm not trying to say that when you go to carbone, that that's the way you're treated but, there might be some moments at a carbone anywhere, whether it's new york, hong kong or the other locations miami, miami, vegas, etc.
Speaker 4:Where you might have a server that just has so much agency that it's like refreshing right when they can say like you know what, I'm not going to do that, and they don't have to check with a chef or check with the manager because we we essentially were the managers so anyway, I think, what I was doing in Hong Kong was to try to basically be the defender of the standards, and it wasn't so simple because I was doing in Hong Kong was to try to basically be the defender of the standards, and it wasn't so simple because I was not, like you know, the I was not the final say on everything.
Speaker 4:I was still working for their partners there in Hong Kong and needed to to make sure that I was delivering whatever their goals were as well. But I always approached it as being like I want to try to help this restaurant feel as much like the New York experience as possible, and I was the only person really that had that experience so like I got to go around the floor and meet with guests and sit down and I had the authority to be able to grab a bottle of limoncello and pour it for all of us.
Speaker 4:So it was like pretty cool. It was definitely not a normal restaurant job, but if they were short staffed and they didn't have somebody and I needed to roll up my sleeves and start waiting tables, I would do that too.
Speaker 2:Right? Was that your? Was that your last on the floor kind of job before you? Was that I can't recall, like when COVID happened and all of that, and I know that's around when you started your restaurant manifesto, the blog.
Speaker 4:Right, I started the blog in 2014. I left for Hong Kong in 2015. Okay, and I was like continuing to write from Hong Kong, like I was posting on my blog from Hong Kong.
Speaker 4:Just still like the. You know just all of it was pretty much just trying to channel a lot of the observations about restaurant culture and early on when I started the blog it was more about dining tips. I always felt like and I still do that if people had a little bit more sense of the sort of like machinations behind the scenes, if they understood a little bit more about why the rules of engagement are the way they are, yeah they probably would follow them more closely why we don't see incomplete parties you see an empty table, that doesn't mean you can just sit there.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 4:There's so much of that stuff that for us in the restaurant world, like it's so rudimentary to me, to us, and we're like we get it we, but you know it's.
Speaker 4:It's very foreign to people that that have no experience in it yeah, but so when I, when I finished with hong kong, I came back to new york, um, I started working again with carbone in new york, because I hadn't been in carbone in new york very long at all, I had just basically gotten a crash course in the restaurant, so they were kind of needing somebody, and it's just a great job. It's just like always, busy slam.
Speaker 3:It's a hard job but it was a good job.
Speaker 4:So I started working there again for a while, and this was in 2016. Now, and at their sister restaurant down the street called ZZ's Clone Bar, which is like a cocktail bar.
Speaker 2:Totally, I have been as a guest.
Speaker 4:Such a special little place, like a little jewel box of a restaurant, where many of the captains that worked at Carbone would also kind of like. You know, we were cross-trained.
Speaker 2:What did it seat like 20 or something. There was only four tables.
Speaker 4:Maximum, I think really comfortably, was about 18. Okay, but you could maybe push it to 20, but it was kind of like a club in a ways sadly it's not.
Speaker 2:I remember when ken and I were there and we hear this deep voice in the doorway and it's lebron getting turned away because they were full and I was like oh my god, yeah, I felt very cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember that because when I like, when you're working there as a captain, you're also the maitre d' because there's no, it's such a small room. You've got a bartender that has no bar seats. People are there for the cocktails.
Speaker 4:And then you have the captain, who's in a tuxedo that's me and the captain is the one that manages the reservation book. So you've got an iPad with the reservation book and you have to be responsible for all of these things, so like your table's food is dragging. But you're also trying to figure out how am I going to get this two top cleared by 830. So some friend of the owner, or LeBron, or some famous person is coming in.
Speaker 4:And that would happen quite often, where somebody would come in and like LeBron and be like hey, the owners told us that we were going to be able to come in, and then you're like well, nobody called me about it.
Speaker 4:So, I worked downtown at Carbone and ZZ's for a while and then I moved to Midtown to the grill, which is in the old Four Seasons restaurant, and that was my last job prior to COVID and I worked all the way up until COVID. I was laid off my job during COVID but at that point I think the blog was really developing an audience, because I don't think anybody else was talking about some of the things from the perspective of, of the of the restaurant worker, the way I was.
Speaker 2:So, so fast forward a little bit. So it was like from the blog, and then you started focusing on food and hospitality writing and really worked your way up in very few short years to now this James Beard nomination, which is pretty fucking awesome.
Speaker 3:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:And I feel that you have kept your voice. Obviously, you're playing in a different level of politics gatekeeping and rules in the food writing opposed to food service. Yeah, what's that transition been like? Navigating from those, because you learn the rules from the in-house stuff, and then now you're shifting to politics of the written word and all of these magazines that maintain a particular narrative or have particular writers from a particular perspective, like we were talking about not having food writers, of reviewers, of non-whiteness in many spaces.
Speaker 4:The first piece that I wrote that was published in like a legit periodical was called the Bully in the Kitchen and it was about a sous chef that I'd worked with at Babo and I got paid zero for this. And you know it was kind of complicated because the editor who hired me or who like went along to publish this, was starting a new like series that was called like Voices or something and it was this was in 19. Oh, I'm sorry, this was in 2019. So it was not that long ago. Six years ago. The first time that I was published in any sort of like legit periodical was 2019. So it really has not been that long ago, but I had been blogging for prior to that for at least five years, and a lot of the stuff that I was doing was the type of thing that was not yet in mainstream media but should have been.
Speaker 4:And so at that point the Mario Batali thing I think it already hit, I can't remember what year that was the Me Too thing was starting to bubble over, yeah, and people were really starting to become aware. The public was starting to become aware of these cultural problems in restaurants and I was like I lived that shit. So for me it wasn't like I didn't. You know, I was on the front lines of it. So I had submitted this piece to. It was food and wine magazine, mm-hmm, and it was basically written in the style of my blog. It could have been on my blog and I included the name of the names of the people involved.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah nobody but like you know, before you, before the crowd goes wild here, they wouldn't really publish it. They wouldn't publish it with the names. But again, this was again 2019. Me Too is still pretty new.
Speaker 2:The restaurant culture thing was having a reckoning, but anybody who knows knows, I think, if it was today.
Speaker 4:I think if it was today maybe they might be different about it. They might like take the time to vet it, they might think that it's worth fighting the legal battles that could result, but essentially what they did is they removed the names and I, you know, I guess, assisted with this and the piece was really. I actually think it benefited from the name being omitted, because if the name was included, then the piece would have been more about slandering that person that did that Rather than this is a toxic problem was included, then the piece would have been more about slandering that person that did that, instead of being universal toxic problem, exactly, and so I think that when that piece came out, it was sort of just like at.
Speaker 4:It just added on to this idea that this is going on in all these restaurants that you go to and you love, which is true, and in the case of of babo, which was a really beloved restaurant in new york city for a long time, it was a really, really backward like. It was a really beloved restaurant in New York City for a long time. It was a really, really backward like. It had a really backward culture behind the scenes that a lot of the people who worked there were performing brilliantly despite the fact that what was going on behind the scenes was an absolute shit show. And it's a testament to that is the fact that we are still hearing about this more and more.
Speaker 4:Uh, laurie woliver, who's a friend she has a book that just came out called care and feeding. It's a memoir that's really been written about everywhere, and she was mario batali's assistant and part of the book is about, you know that, those years and how, like you know, she sort of like navigated the waters of being in this like world where there's so much celebrity and there's like everybody's surrounded with food, great food and great drink, and they're all acting recklessly everyone's untouchable.
Speaker 4:Everyone's exactly yeah and again like you know I'll say this to my grave Any sorts of reforms or anything that has happened in the restaurant world, where it's called attention to the problems in the restaurant world, have all been initiated by journalists. It's never been initiated by the people in the restaurant world? Yeah, because they're probably terrified right, and that's a lot of these cases. It's just institutionalized right. Um, you, you know, if you, if you say anything about it, then you're, then you are, uh, risking your own position.
Speaker 2:Um, you are not a good fit for this season, right?
Speaker 3:well, I mean, I mean it just reminds me of like I mean, I have so many stories, we all have so many stories. But you know I work for a after the Boe firm and I work for we Get Spotted Pig and they just call the room the rape room.
Speaker 1:I mean, and my first day, they were like you.
Speaker 3:Oh, the owner's going to love you. You'll be a manager, for sure.
Speaker 1:And I was like what, what is happening?
Speaker 3:I mean, it was chaos, but it was just common knowledge. And then of course, the articles come out and blah, blah, blah, blah blah. But it was just like that was my first day, and that's the thing is that when those articles come out and it's like it comes out and people like us are just like yep, we knew, yeah, we knew.
Speaker 4:Everyone knew, I mean it was just you know, but in the moment you know, all the people that are in these jobs, like they're and that's what I think is somewhat lost All the people that are in these jobs. They are performing, just being great at their jobs, yeah, despite the fact that they're not respected by the owners. The owners are entertaining their friends and basically like allowing their friends to behave as they wish with their staff.
Speaker 2:With the servants, and you know like we were lucky. I think at.
Speaker 4:Babo and you know Ken experienced this Like sadly, you know I think I was a part of trying to like kind of bring Ken into the fold, not Babo, but when you know, when we were there it was like initially, probably before he was there, it was the place that all the celebrities would come after after work. So I started there. I started there in 2001.
Speaker 2:I bumped into Kim Cattrall. I literally, literally bumped into the Clinton security detail. I was a little tipsy when I when I worked there, you could smoke.
Speaker 4:You could smoke in the front section.
Speaker 3:Right, so like.
Speaker 4:I think the smoking ban hit in 2003,. Maybe, yeah, 2002 or 2003. And so when I started, the front section was all walk-in tables and all the new people.
Speaker 1:because I was new would work the shitty smoking section Right and I used to change the ashtrays.
Speaker 4:You'd bring the fresh ashtray flip it over. You know that move, yeah, totally like you know, you'd bring the fresh ass tray, flip it over. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4:And so, like in the early going, when there was no spotted pig and there was none of these, like you know, uh, places that were open late, yeah, babo was the spotted pig right but it never like at least in my experience it never turned into that like sort of like rape room, shit show right, which you know like I feel horribly for the people that work there and if you were only there for a week it sounds like you lucked out.
Speaker 3:Oh definitely.
Speaker 4:Could you sense that and you're like I got to get out of it, like I'm not going to do this?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, the people that trained me said it. You know, they were just like well, bad things happen in this room and you know, Bill.
Speaker 3:Murray was there that night, and not in the room. You know, and not in the room. You know I'm not trying to. She's not talking about Larry, no. But you know, honestly, I was still going to take the job but it was a scheduling conflict and then I got asked to come back to the job that I ended up being at for you know, over five years, the job that I left to open my own place. But I mean, it was chaos and it was very, very open in the staff.
Speaker 4:You know the article that I wrote in Food Wine and I look back on it too. Sometimes I have random people reach out to me about it. I think the core point that it makes which I think still to this day I stick by this is that there's kind of a hereditary nature about the abuse that goes on in these restaurants which, like I think we sort of alluded to this earlier.
Speaker 4:but it's like if a sous chef is working under an exec chef and the executive chef is a dick and and they're like they're looking at that person as their role model for how they're supposed to do their job and they are under the impression, yes, that in order to get productivity from everyone, that this is how I have to behave when they are in charge of the kitchen on the nights where the chef de cuisine or whatever is off, uh, they're probably gonna think that I need to be this way in order to uh, hold down the fort, and so, like I would see that time and again, where there'd be like a normal nice person who was a sous chef, yeah, and they were on the on their like on the days where they were just working the line, were like normal decent people, and then the days where they were in charge where the chef wasn't there, they would turn into fucking chupacabra, yeah, and like, oh, and it'd be a different person, and I think that that was just something that was kind of taught.
Speaker 3:Oh, me too. That's what I was going to say is like it's just, I feel like it's something that's learned, it's it's that abuse cycle, you know, and and there was a time I've noticed, you know, I did fine dining for many years and I I have noticed there has been a change years, but before it was I mean, that was, you know, you ruled with an iron fist and, like you said, these, we would go drinking with these people after they'd be so lovely. But if they're on the line screaming at you, they thought that's what they had to do.
Speaker 4:I think that after work thing too, it's it's. It's interesting that you say that was kind of maybe part of the, that sort of sense of like you abuse the shit out of each other. You, you know you treat, and then I'm going to buy you a shot, yeah, but then at the end of the night we all kumbaya and we're good. And that's the thing about the restaurant world in general is that once you close the door on today, tomorrow is a totally different thing.
Speaker 4:And so, like you have to, I think, in the restaurant business, you have to embrace that mentality of not like holding on to yesterday.
Speaker 4:Because, if you do, you'll lose your mind. Oh, definitely, you know, whatever like crazy clientele you had yesterday, or shenanigans that you had to deal with, that you had to. Basically, like you know, you have to carry the burden oftentimes of guest deficiencies when you work in a restaurant and so, like we're expected to sort of carry that burden with us. If you are taking that day after day after day and not just closing the book on whatever happened yesterday, then you won't survive.
Speaker 2:And I think there's probably a lot of people who do, which is how you maintain those relationships. If everyone can forgive the team and focus on the people who were terrible coming in, then that becomes a unifying force.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's like military. I think it's like you have a common enemy. You have a common enemy.
Speaker 3:I was literally just going to say that it's like you know, even here on the weekends it gets so crazy and I just tell Sam it's like going to war, you know, like you're either in this together or we're against it. I think it's pretty obvious we're in the world, we're in the world. It doesn't need.
Speaker 4:I think it goes without saying. You know that if that is the analogy and if the analogy is salient, then there's a chance that the people who are going to war have PTSD.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like that's.
Speaker 4:I think. When I see reckoning with mental health in the restaurant industry, I obviously applaud it and anything that calls attention to it industry, I obviously applaud it and anything that calls attention to it. But I still think that there's more that we can do to, I think, advocate for people that work in restaurants in terms of what's going?
Speaker 4:on in the moment and how you're dealing with that, Because I think too often it's like the whatever's happening in the moment requires you to do things like, and then we all know the quotes kill them with kindness. Yeah Right, Like I fucking hate that. The customer is always right, but the customer's always right is even lost its. I don't even think that that's like. You know. That's now looked at, I think, as sort of like a Dennis the Menace 1950s sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Well, thank God.
Speaker 4:People don't say it anymore, agreed, but even like, kill them with kindness? I don't think. But this idea, this core, is where you overcome whatever obstacles are in your way, which could include a difficult guest Like I. Do not subscribe to the idea that there is somehow salvation for people that work in restaurants to see someone who is like miserable and turn them around.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:I don't think that we should be expected to turn people around.
Speaker 3:No, I mean, I agree with you. It's not our job.
Speaker 4:But there's too much other shit that we're doing. We are not. We know about the world of food and we know about the world of wine. We have been taught how to be accommodating or whatever. Like we should not have to diagnose a psychological issue at the table Psychoanalysis be comedians be therapists.
Speaker 3:That's a really good point, though I agree with you completely.
Speaker 4:I really do think that, and this all comes down to things like, for example and this is just an example, not questioning a bad tip- that is considered taboo. You can never like approach somebody about a bad tip well, why the hell not?
Speaker 3:yeah, oh, my bartender, why the hell?
Speaker 1:not like, if you, if there wasn't a problem.
Speaker 4:If there really legitimately wasn't a problem, why not? Exactly I agree because because, like it's in some ways, it's like your honor on the line, and I realize that you, when you're working in a restaurant, either as bartender or as a tipped employee, it isn't your business, it's not your job, or it's not. You don't own the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Right, so you're representing the owner in terms of the work that you do so maybe some might think that it's out of place for you to be able to talk to somebody or just to question somebody.
Speaker 2:Like it's this open secret? Like what no?
Speaker 4:somebody like it's this open secret, like what I know, like, but like. But why shouldn't somebody have to face you? And if they really did think that service was bad, you know, and they decided to reflect it in your tip, why shouldn't they have to face you to be able to explain that?
Speaker 3:and the managers.
Speaker 4:The managers are always like you should have let us handle that or whatever. Like I worked with a guy back in the day about fired for questioning a tip and the way he handled it was like probably stupid and emotional. But if you, if you weren't emotional about it and if you really just were like, excuse me, I wanted to check with you to see if you were unhappy with my service because you didn't really leave a tip. That's customary, right, like what? I don't think that there's anything really wrong with that.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 4:You know, like I mean you know, I, I think when, when people leave a bad tip, they always leave right away, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they get the hell out of there.
Speaker 4:Like, they leave the shitty tip and they get the hell out of there. Yeah, and there's something really cowardly about that. Yeah, about that. Yeah, and if, like, if they really have a legitimate reason for not tipping, well then then that's like, then that's fair, but they, that doesn't necessarily give them a right to do it without, like, having to face the person that you're doing it to, because people often don't realize you guys do, but most guests don't that when they're leaving a bad tip, they're penalizing everybody downstream from who the server, is.
Speaker 4:The food runner, the barred back, the bus person.
Speaker 2:If I ever want to leave a bad tip, I still leave it enough that all of the people are covered, like you're not getting extra because you were rude as fuck or you were just terrible.
Speaker 4:I'm talking about like straight up zero. Oh yeah, absolutely not, which doesn't happen often, but it does happen. And then there's also situations where it happens, where the people are just not from here and they don't know any better. I'm sorry. I am sorry.
Speaker 3:You came from across the world.
Speaker 2:You were able to plan a trip in another language. You were able to research, book uh, book a place to stay, book your flights, get things going. You've organized. You found this random place out of everything.
Speaker 4:You should know what tipping culture is I'm not excusing you like, for the record, I'm not excusing it, you're right the playing dumb. It's probably the first thing that comes up anytime you start to plan a trip from to the united states from other places. It's like make sure you do this. But you know, I'm sure there's probably a lot of people who feign ignorance and they're like I'm never going to see these people again, so who cares? I think that's a lot of what it is. I mean, that's what I at least I noticed.
Speaker 3:Not trying to interrupt, but what I noticed here at this bar is it's a lot of people on the weekends coming in, going. I'm never going to see this person again, so I'm going to do the bare minimum. You know, like we just had well, we just had a check, 105 check, zero tip, and it just said you guys are a bunch of cunts. And we posted on the wall and thought it was hilarious, you know. But but, I think it is a lot of like I'll never see you again.
Speaker 2:So were they brits? That's like no. It's used cunts more fluently. That's like a primitive version of social media.
Speaker 4:Of course they're yelping Right on the slip, oh my favorite is the bodegas around here.
Speaker 2:They do the security camera screenshot grabs of this person stole. Oh yeah, thief thief, thief, thief.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a little patchwork of people stealing juice. I love it.
Speaker 3:Or it's a little patchwork of people stealing juice I love it well. Or it's like public shaming, the public shame. My friend, paul, owns a bar booby trap and, um, they do the yelper of the year or yelper of the month every month. I think they still do it, but they just put up the worst reviews and they respond.
Speaker 2:I mean, they totally respond. T-shirt like their, their, their bar t-shirt was somebody's terrible yelp.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it was that. I can't remember Somebody. We know it's very funny. I do like a lot of these owners kind of flipping the script, you know, like if you're going to Yelp at me, I'm going to Yelp back at you.
Speaker 4:Listen, though, like if we're talking about, like people that come from other countries, like, yes, you can realize, you can research and you can read articles or whatever that tell you like this is what the custom is, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those people understand that exactly, that the people that are working in tip jobs in this country are being paid substandard, less than minimum wages. So, like they, you know, in their minds they're probably thinking like, well, this isn't what we do in our country, I shouldn't have to subscribe to their customs. You know, and and and.
Speaker 4:A lot of times, like I remember this would happen to me a lot where there'd be like there there'd be, uh, someone from another country and they would leave like three dollars on like a 250 check and like, yeah, I was upset about it, but I also, like, at times, would sort of stop and think like that they to them, this was probably like like leaving a lot because they might otherwise like leave zero because that's what they normally do. So, again, this I wasn't. I wasn't, this wasn't like warming the cockles of my heart here, but I'm just saying like I think that we in general like around tipping, which is a complicated conversation, I get it in general, like around tipping, which is a complicated conversation. I get it. There just needs to be more education about it, like people just don't understand what is going on. How much different, especially now that tip credits and things like that are so vastly different in different states in the country, so like if you go to, like you know.
Speaker 4:Missouri, mississippi or whatever. I don't know. Whatever it's like literally, there are still Missouri, mississippi or whatever. I don't know whatever it's like literally, there are still. The federal tipped minimum is still $2 and 13 cents, which is absurd.
Speaker 3:It's absurd.
Speaker 4:I mean the minimum wage, I think, is still $7 and 50 cents federally. But you are, there are still a lot of states in the union where you can go to like a waffle house or whatever. And the tipped credit, the tip credit wage, is $2 and 13 cents.
Speaker 4:So, like you know, there just needs to be, I think, a deeper understanding about how these economics work and how the economics of that affect the price on the menu which is like you know, especially in today's world where inflation is just such like it's driving people nuts and the value of like things is kind of corrupted to the point where we don't even know how much things are supposed to be caught, are supposed to cost. You're like 25 cocktail, it's like.
Speaker 2:Okay, fine, like I'm an 11 cauliflower.
Speaker 4:You don't you know, you don't even know, but there's a whole, there's a whole economy around these things and I do write about this a little bit in my book too which is like that, whatever the price is on the menu and if you're in a place that only does like two seatings or something like that, or even a place that does one seating, you're not just paying for the cost of whatever the dish is or whatever the drink is, you're paying for the pace of the meal, right of course you know.
Speaker 4:Of course you know. So, like everybody wants to be able to pay, like you know, $12 a cocktail in a restaurant and $20 or $25 an entree and sit for as long as they want, but the reality is is that that is not a viable business anymore, so there's nobody that's going to be able to provide you a place where at least not to the level of formality in new york city and be two miles away where one place you're paying five thousand dollars in rent and the same size place is paying thirty thousand dollars in rent.
Speaker 2:Those prices are going to be higher. Like people don't think about the price of your menu item covers, rent, covers lights, covers exactly everything. All of these hard costs.
Speaker 4:Do you understand? I mean, it's like I think that what I'm thinking of is even on like, not even in such a like bird's eye view, but just like you're sitting at the table, you are participating in an economy.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:And that economy. There's certain assumptions, like when people don't want to give up their table, or when they're what we call camping. Yeah, you know, like they're staying too long after they paid their bill, like if somebody paid their bill and they're sitting around, like you know, chit-chatting for half an hour. No, like, and there's people waiting at the bar whose experiences are being compromised. That's a problem, yeah, and like I believe and and this isn't a popular opinion and some people like are irritated by this that the people who are camping shouldn't have to wait for somebody a manager, to come over to the table and remind them that it's time to go yeah, like they should have that sort of sense, like they're looking at the bar it's packed like not only read the room, it's, it's also just like you are participating in an economy, and the reason that your entree cost, let's say, 30 instead of 40 or whatever, is because this is the pace of the service.
Speaker 4:If you're a four top, you get maximum two hours and and you know you see that happen when people start to put parameters on how long you can have your table, diners get really irritated by that. But I don't think that people understand the sort of existential crisis that restaurants are in right now.
Speaker 2:Or as your server, you're like Jesus I can't move them. Girl is eating one bite every half an hour. I can't move this table and you're getting pressure from management saying I need that. I needed that 15 minutes ago. I just had flashbacks to being in those situations where the chef is like you didn't fire the food but the chef.
Speaker 4:And this is again. This is like super, like the way that people that work in restaurants understand how restaurants work, but your table's not finished. Their how restaurants work, but your table's not finished. They're appetizers, they're, they're, they're they're dragging the chef.
Speaker 4:You didn't fire the food, but the chef is about to fire the food mainly because the chef needs to push that ticket out, like people don't realize that you cannot let people eat at their own pace because tickets pile up and you have in order to be able to keep your line organized and and to keep tickets on time. You've got it. You've got to be able to keep your line organized and and to keep tickets on time. You've got it.
Speaker 4:You've got to be able to to move the the old tickets out for to make room for the new tickets so, like you know, servers oftentimes, I think, are like kind of antagonized by the chef where it's like get, get table 20 cleared now, yeah, and you're just like what the hell can I do? I don't know what I can do, but again, all I think the point I'm trying to make is that all of these things, like even if it's somebody coming over to your table and being like I'm, I'm sorry, your next course is going to be out in a moment, would you?
Speaker 4:mind if I just move this to the side and setting it up Like that's not inhospitable. This is what our restaurant does.
Speaker 2:This is how we serve people to everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's like you and you're living I mean the guests, they're living in a world where they still think that that whatever their desires are should rule the way that things work, and that's just not.
Speaker 3:Is this not the case?
Speaker 4:you can, you can hang on to that, but you're not going to have any restaurants to go to anymore is this what your book is?
Speaker 2:I know that the loose term is about like rules of. Is it called Rules of Dining?
Speaker 4:It's called the New Rules of Dining Out.
Speaker 3:Should we plug the book Because I got to speaking of restaurants, I got to open this bar, unfortunately, my manager is late, so my job. I'll help, so let's just plug the book, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, the book, in a sort of simple elevator pitch kind of way, is that there is no such thing as danny meyer's setting the table hospitality book for the guests like the. There needs to be, I think, uh, sort of a handbook or a guidebook that helps people dine more successfully by understanding better the rules of engagement. So I frame it as a little bit of like a restaurant etiquette book. But I really don't believe that it is an etiquette book, because I think it's more about understanding the rules of engagement and understanding also how to better communicate your needs in a restaurant.
Speaker 2:So you're not an Irma Bombeck, it's more of a culture guide.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I reference Emily Post in the preface of the book guide. Yeah, and I reference Emily Post in the in the preface of the book, but only really to sort of like contextualize the fact that in 1922, when Emily Post's book came out, like that probably was like I think it probably was like. For a lot of people, like this is absurd, like why should I have to study how to behave better?
Speaker 2:You know and better.
Speaker 4:And the reason I think it was so successful is because audiences or readers recognize the fact that there is a tangible benefit to acquiring those skills. So with my book, it's like if you knew that some of these insights that a former restaurant worker could provide to you about how to better communicate your needs, how to engage with staff better, would result in better service with minimal effort, wouldn't you do that Like?
Speaker 1:why would you not do that? Why would you not do that?
Speaker 4:And so there probably are going to be things that people read in this book where they're like they don't agree with it or they think it's ridiculous. Why should I have to take care of that? The people that work in restaurants should take care of that. But I just feel like we have this attitude just in broadly. You know in society that restaurant greatness is something that just magically happens.
Speaker 4:Yeah or that it happens to you, instead of like with you right but the but the truth is is that and anyone who's ever worked in a restaurant knows this is that the people serving you generally sort of reflect your energy and they mirror the way that you behave. Yeah, so if a server comes over to your table and they're, like you know, enthusiastic and greeting you and saying like hi, my name is Adam, welcome to the restaurant, and you're like what's the Wi-Fi password?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's like womop, wop, yeah, and people don't realize the effect that that has on that rapport and that relationship. But if you're more cognizant of that, if you're more mindful of that and if you think about how you engage in a way that is more sensitive to these things, then you should avoid those pitfalls obviously. A in a way that is more sensitive to these things, then you should avoid those pitfalls, obviously. But also you should like do things proactively to to better, like fortify those relationships in a way that benefits you. So, like the server is, or or anyone that works in a restaurant is an advocate for your needs, like they are the one that has to go talk to the chef to get you whatever you're asking for. You can never do that yourself. You don't want to do that yourself.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4:But so, but like so. So, however you're like, if you want that person to go to bat for you, then that starts the minute you sit down you know, and so I think with my book. There are a lot of articles that you can find online, and more and more I'm seeing more and more of them these days about etiquette. But those, those articles are they tend to be things like five ways not to piss off your bartender yeah, right, right or you know or seven things that a server never wants to hear you say.
Speaker 4:Right, so like I get that. Those are like little, like sort of bite size things. Yeah, but what it what it never, what it never does and I think what my book does, I think I hope well is that it puts that all into context in a way of saying like why.
Speaker 4:How, why Right. And also like, when you are in a restaurant, you are a partner, not a patron, right, right, right. And also like understanding that, whatever energy you bring into it in terms of how you behave, how you comport yourself, the way you communicate, what, how you ask for things, um, and also like just how compassionate you are about mistakes. You know like, when you go to a restaurant, you can and I say this like you can have, you can have bad. You go to a restaurant. You can and I say this like you can have you can have bad experiences at great restaurants and you can have great experiences at bad restaurants, but no matter which scenario it is, there is one constant in both of those and that is you right you are.
Speaker 4:You know, I went, went out recently to dinner with some people like in the industry, like in the press industry, and the food comes out. It's a big group and clearly this restaurant was not sort of equipped for that and my food didn't come out and everybody had their food. Yeah, and this was like not a fancy place, but it was. It was weird, right, right and so like. And you guys have probably been in this situation where you've, you've you've dealt with this before. It's, it's really hard to deal with when you're a server because you're like, oh shit yeah, where is?
Speaker 4:whatever, and then you're like looking through your pad and you're like oh shit, I forgot to put this in and sometimes you. That's the thing is. Sometimes you did put it in and then you have to go to chef and be like he went out, didn't go out, chef yeah, right, and it's like it could be their mistake, but I think in the moment and the reason I brought it up is because what happens is everybody at the table is looking at you- they're looking at you, yeah right.
Speaker 4:Like they don't know what to do, whether they're supposed to eat, but they're looking at you right, right, yeah, and so like, if you're like all uncomfortable with it or you're like, oh, like, bug, you know, bothered by it, then that's going to like affect the way all of these people are. Like everybody is following sort of a script in their mind and a sort of like custom in their mind. But, you know, in those moments it's like there's just no reason. I don't think why you can't show grace, particularly if the people working there come out, which they did in this situation. I mean, it wasn't the best I've ever seen but a server comes out and I'm like I'm so sorry it should be here in just a moment. Like in those moments, whatever those moments are like, you know, I had like a margarita that that was very nice and I was like I'm enjoying my margarita. So I really was about. It was more like I had to calm down all the people that were at the table with me to get them to chill out.
Speaker 4:And once that happened, they started eating their meals. My food came, you know, probably like six or seven minutes, maybe later or whatever. Um, no harm, no foul. It wasn't that big a deal. But when these meltdowns happen and I've been around a lot of them it's oftentimes like things that were just like. It's not about, it's not about what's happening here. It's like you. You had your. Your expectations were so high because this was the.
Speaker 4:You were out with your in-laws for the first time right right you, uh, you're in a relationship where things have been on the rocks lately and you really wanted this to be a special night, or it's your anniversary, birthday, graduations, whatever. In these destination restaurants, every table is a special occasion. So like the stakes are so high in people's lives. But you know, if things go wrong, restaurants are run by human power. Like there needs to be, I think, just a little bit of a sense with guests, of being like I can. You know I can absorb some of the you know the heartbreak of a mistake.
Speaker 2:It's food and beverage. No one is having open heart surgery.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Everyone will be fine.
Speaker 2:No one's dying.
Speaker 3:Well, I think your book's going to be hugely successful. I really do. I mean. I think it's something that we all need and, from what I understand, people want. You know what I mean. So I think it's something that we all need and, from what I understand, people want you know what I mean, so I think that's awesome, it's in pre-sales now.
Speaker 2:right, we'll put a link up. Yeah, we'll put a link up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see how people respond. I am prepared for getting really bad Amazon reviews, because I think that there's going to be people who are going to react like you can't say this. You, because I think that there's going to be people who are going to react like you can't say this. You're not allowed to say this. And I think that the reason hopefully that it will be like people will pay attention to it is because it's about time that people say this.
Speaker 3:Exactly, I agree this is something that we need, but it's not.
Speaker 4:I just want to stress, too, that it's not preachy.
Speaker 4:I'm not trying to educate people, it's nothing like that. It's really just about trying to break down some of these situations that happen in restaurants so that people better understand it. And you alluded to this a little bit too, like how to ask for things, like how to send your food back. You know, why won't they seat incomplete parties? Why will they not allow a joiner to your party when you're in the middle of desserts?
Speaker 4:There's just a lot of things like that where I think it gives insights into some of these moments that most people have experienced in one way or another, but they've never really thought about this way. So hopefully, it'll be like for restaurant people, it'll resonate because you're like, oh, it's about time that somebody's collected all of this sort of like, these thoughts and insights in one place. But then also for people who are a little bit more less experienced with restaurants, they'll, they'll, you know, the light will turn on a little bit in their minds where hopefully they'll approach it in a way where they're more compassionate, more mindful, um, and more respectful of, just like, all the things that go into making a great restaurant experiences. Experience, which is so much, it's so much more than people think. It's really hard not only to carry off great service and great food and a great experience for one table, but to do that for everybody in the same room at the same time that have all these eccentricities that need to be managed.
Speaker 4:It's really not.
Speaker 3:It's really hard to do that, all right. Well, annette, we gotta go, I gotta, I gotta work man Talk about the restaurant industry.
Speaker 1:It's my time, All right Well.
Speaker 2:Annette we got to go.
Speaker 3:I got to work, man, talk about the restaurant industry. I know it's my time. Somebody is late, so we got to set up the bar. We got.
Speaker 2:Snoring Wilbur joined us today.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you so much, that was awesome.
Speaker 2:I'd love to have you again.
Speaker 1:I'm trying.
Speaker 3:I really want to do a food podcast just called Family Meal, where that's all we talk about. So I would love to have you if that ever happens. But thank you, just gave her say the word juice away. That was mine. I've had it for 10 years. We talked about it, okay, anyway. Well, thank you, all right darling.
Speaker 2:All right um links and all of that will be up um on the page.
Speaker 4:All right, cool bye, thank you, thanks guys.
