How To Renovate

Interview Episode: Francesca Wezel from Francesca's Paints

• Tash South • Season 1

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Are you ready for a masterclass in colour? 
This week, I was lucky enough to interview Francesca Wezel, the founder of Francesca’s Paints. Francesca’s Paints was started in November 1996 and is one of the first eco-friendly paint companies in the UK. Francesca swapped her musical ambitions for a passion for colors after a serendipitous encounter in Australia, transforming her life and career. Her story is a testament to following your passion and embracing unexpected opportunities, as she shares how her love for yoga and travels through India have inspired many of her unique color collections.

Francesca has a true talent for making and combining colours and textures, and colour matching. Since discovering her passion  for paint, she’s travelled the world looking for colours, their origins and their uses.

For this interview I visited Francesca in her London workshop, a wonderfully creative space. An artisan, an expert in her field, and a story teller, I just love just how Francesca talks about her work. Her passion is infectious and her stories captivating and she’s always championing women in her unique way – through colour.

In this episode we explore the emotional connections people form with color, and how these hues can transform the ambiance of a home. Francesca offers a tonne of valuable insights on selecting colours for your home that resonate personally, emphasising the importance of trusting instincts over trends. 

This episode holds a wealth of inspiration and guidance for anyone looking to bring color into their home!

Learn more about Francesca’s Paints:
Instagram: @francescaspaintsltd 
Website: francescaspaint.com

Other episodes mentioned: EP30 Should You Ask Other People’s Opinions On Your Reno?

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Hi I'm your host, Tash South I'm an Interior Designer and Renovation Consultant.
Each episode of How To Renovate is short, but brimming with practical advice to help you manage your renovation project with confidence and success.

Grab some more renovation advice & free resources and become part of the South Place Studio Renovation Community at
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Speaker 1:

Hello, hello, you lucky, lucky. How to Renovate listeners. Are you ready for a Masterclass in Colour today? Because today I'm interviewing Francesca from Francesca's Paints. Now, francesca's Paints was started in November 1996 and was one of the very first eco-friendly paint companies in the UK. Francesca has a true talent for making and combining colours and textures and colour matching, and since discovering her passion for paint, she's travelled the world looking for colours, their origins and their uses. For this conversation, I visited Francesca in a London workshop, which is a wonderfully creative space. She is a true artisan and an expert in her field, and also an amazing storyteller. I just love how Francesca talks about her work. Her passion is infectious and her stories are so captivating, and she's always championing women in her unique way, through colour and through her work. Francesca, thank you, you made my job very, very easy. Are you ready? Everybody, let's get into the episode. Hi, francesca, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

I'm so excited to talk to you about everything colour. So a place I always like to start is to ask you to tell us a little bit more about yourself and your background.

Speaker 2:

Well, my background, first of all. I'm Italian. I was born in Milan and I wanted to be a pianist. I studied piano for seven years, but my family was not very interested in music or art or anything like this as business, so they didn't really support my study of piano. And with piano, basically, you just have to study eight hours a day yeah and it's the only way.

Speaker 2:

So then, because I was doing a language school, I had to decide what to do, and my family completely pushed me on the languages rather than the piano. And then I decided that I wanted to go to university and study law, which I didn't know what happened to me. That was really weird, and after six months I realized that I made a very big mistake, and so I decided to come to London and to finally learn English. Right, and so then I studied. You know, I did all the things that us foreign people have to do, like going to colleges and things like that, and then, after three years of London, I've fallen in love with an Australian man and I went to live in Australia, and in Australia I found paint, and that is where everything started. How?

Speaker 1:

did you find paint in Australia? Were you working somewhere Exactly?

Speaker 2:

exactly, exactly. It's a funny thing Because I didn't really know anything about paint, but I always been very artistic and I always been very yeah, I know I love playing. I used to draw a lot as a child and actually I have a really lovely painting of the I made for my grandmother and my grandmother used to love art and it's very naive and it's very colorful always relate to colors a lot. Colors have always been important to me, but I kind of didn't really know. And then I was working of all places, in a travel agency and then in a marketing company, and I was very unhappy and I'm thinking I'm on the other side of the world and with the man that I love, I have to find something good. And a friend of mine who really understood my personality said why don't you go and check this paint company out? They just opened. It's called Portas paints and I think that the boss will really like you. So I went there.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know anything. The studio is fantastic, is actually the house of this person and it's got the most amazing colors, super trendy, and in the showroom they also have a kitchen and it's all done with the Italian cook. There is a beautiful Italian coffee machine. The guys has a lot of respect and attraction towards anything that is Italian right. So he looked at me and I just said, hi, I'm Francesca, and basically when I you got the job, wow, I don't really know anything, he said. But you have an amazing accent, I love your voice. So, but I don't really know anything, he said but you have an amazing accent.

Speaker 1:

I love your voice.

Speaker 2:

So even if you don't know anything, you sound so real that you can actually pretend that you know. And I said okay, and that's how it started, amazing.

Speaker 1:

Amazing story. I agree with him. I love your accent and your voice voice but so how?

Speaker 2:

so you found pain in australia. And then how did you come into francesca's paints?

Speaker 1:

and starting your own paint company.

Speaker 2:

I stayed with the porters paints for seven years and the three and three months after I started, the color man got the sack. And my lovely, my ex-boss, was somebody that I adore because he was somebody, the only person in my life that really gave me a chance to learn and to do something. He understood that I could be good at this thing and so he just looked at me and said from now on on, you are the colorist of the company. And again I said I don't know how to do it. And he said you're really boring, because if you're interested in something, you learn. Yes, I. It was incredible it was unbelievable because I was already making colors that they were formulated. So I was reading the formula and I could see what the ingredients that were in the colors, yes, and so from there I worked it out and then he said, okay, try to make this color. And I just made the most beautiful color and it was the right tone. I just just like that it's like I, just it.

Speaker 1:

It must have been a previous life I don't know.

Speaker 2:

It's something that I immediately took to. And it was like I felt very comfortable with it. It was the first time that I was proud to say I work for this paint company, because it was like far and wall, you know, like everybody knew it. But the difference is that they were doing all traditional paint finishes and all ecological stuff. Yeah, we talk in the 90s where nobody was really doing anything ecological.

Speaker 1:

No, that's true, was kind of the height of VOCs and synthetic Absolutely, or lead, you know. Oh my goodness, what about the lead?

Speaker 2:

You know there is a bible of paint that really tells you what there used to be inside paint and you know, if you were a professional decorator, you really had to wear a mask, otherwise it was dangerous for your health.

Speaker 2:

yeah, and so then I came back, via four months in India, traveling on the back of a motorbike wow with a friend, and for me, india again was a place I couldn't believe, you know, we went, we went to we were actually from nepal. We went down to uh luknov, agra, daily rajistan, and then up to banali and ladakh, and when I arrived in rajasthan, I couldn't believe, you know, the pink city, japan. I mean it's like, oh my gosh. And then we went to talk to a master of colours. We were actually grinding the pigments, washing them, sifting them. I mean it was really amazing, it was fantastic.

Speaker 2:

And then I went to say hi to my family, and then I already knew that I wanted to come back to London, because Italy at the time was very white, all the interiors were white, so I didn't really have any reason to be there, because you know I'm a colorist. It wasn't your target market. But the funny thing is that in England is that color has always been very important, because there is a particular light and the weather is so grey that you actually need colour in your home and all the Victoria and the George and Edward and all the various periods actually had, historically, a lot of colours?

Speaker 2:

Yes, they did. And all the various periods actually had, historically, a lot of colours? Yes, they did. And so I decided to come back to London and one of the first companies that I went to see was actually Farrow and Ball. Okay, and they said, yeah, you can come, and you know, they just opened the shop in the Fulham Road. Oh, yes, and but then I realized that they weren't mixing paint, they were just selling paint. I have always been a manufacturer and I have always put my hands into the paint, my hands into the pigment, and I have always touched the paint, smelled the paint, looked at the paint and for me to be a shop assistant was really not a right thing. So I said thank you very much, this is fantastic. And as I was walking back home, I was in the Kings Road I thought I'm going to open my own business. And that's exactly how it started. And it was the 14th of November 1996, that I established Francesca Sprint.

Speaker 1:

Oh, amazing, and I would just like to say that we are recording this episode on the second. Is it the second? Fourth, Fourth it's the fourth of November today, so you're coming up for a very big birthday 28. 28.

Speaker 2:

28 years, I mean, of mixing and making colours and wonderful stories and still loving it and still really getting so passionate about it. Because for me, the most important thing about this job is that I could see this in my head and the fact that now people can see themselves that these colours are nice and they're ecological and they're chalky and they're velvety. They have a lovely depth. It's fantastic. You know, I'm proud of it.

Speaker 1:

I really like it.

Speaker 2:

Coming to work has always been a joy. I mean, we had some really atrocious and very hard time like everybody else.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I can imagine.

Speaker 2:

But I think that the belief is very important and, yeah, I like, I feel that I am really lucky because I do something that I really really like.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and it's such a unique company, I think, and that must kind of add to it as well. So, like we've been talking about, you just have the most amazing colours in your ranges and they have all these really evocative names. Like I have to look at my notes here to remember some of them like Colours of my Mind Namibian Sands.

Speaker 2:

Guru Kulam. Guru Kulam is the house of the Guru and I spend because I do yoga. I am a professional yogi. My second, when I will stop mixing paint, I will be teaching yoga. I actually teach yoga already once a weekly center in london, shivananda center in patni. But um I, yoga is something that helped me throughout. For the past 15, 20 years I've been doing yoga regularly, yes, and so I've been going to india regularly. I went to india about 12 times. So I know ind good mention, and I have a fantastic Indian yoga teacher who has opened the Guru Kulam.

Speaker 2:

It means there is the house of the guru and there are students who live in the Guru Kulam, in the house with the guru, so they lead a complete spiritual life. They go to school, they come back and they meditate, do yoga. I mean, I was incredibly shocked to see how these kids. They are so calm because they're diet. They don't know what sugar is, so and it's amazing to see how sugar in children. You see them going mad and these children are so balanced and so amazing. And so this guru kulam collection was done. Each name of the color is actually the name of one of the girl who stayed at the guru kulam.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, that is amazing. And you know colors of my mind.

Speaker 2:

It was a collaboration with raffaella barca and raffaella Barca, and Raffaella Barca is an English writer who lives in Norfolk, and so each name of the colour is actually the title of the book because, we were thinking how book can relate to colours and it was just an interesting journey, and is that almost how story as well?

Speaker 1:

is that almost about story as well, how the story can be behind the colors. Yeah, absolutely yes, yes, whether it's a joyous story, bright color or a sad story, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, there is, you know, a little bit of everything, but you know like I have a color school, madeleines, and it's a very beautiful pink I've had the privilege of using some of your amazing colours so, obviously, all these amazing names, monsoon, rains, earth and Solace, and these are just to name but a few, because you just have so many colours.

Speaker 2:

I have 27 collections 27 collections. No 27 colours 27 collections of colours. No 247 colours 247 colours.

Speaker 2:

But we custom mix to any specification, so we actually have thousands of colours and we keep a formula of any colours that we do. I don't know if it's a very good idea how I'm doing it, but I kept all the collection from when I started and it's amazing actually how funny, how you know you make a collection and then only certain colours go and then around about five years later the colours in the same collection. They've always been there but people were not ready for them All of a sudden people are ready for them, so then you start selling.

Speaker 1:

I think it's amazing you keep all of them. What an incredible archive to have and then to refer back to and just see where kind of decorating and colours have taken us over the past 28 years.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's incredible. I mean, you know, sometimes we I make all these colours and then we are much braver now and we understand darker tones more. But before I mean mainly it was just off-whites, because people are really afraid of colours. But there are a lot of legends, you know, like a darker colour is going to make a room smaller. It's not true.

Speaker 2:

Or you know, if I use a dark color in you know where there is no light, then it's going to look horrible. No, it's actually going to look so much better than a very pale color that is going to look gray otherwise.

Speaker 2:

Or you know all this kind of thing we are very opinionated and that is the thing that I like about colors, because we all have a favorite, a color that we really don't get on. Yes, and, and we are quite precious about our opinion, you know, and it's like you know, and most of the time the colors of interiors and fashion are the same, yeah, and so very often we wear the colors that we have in our house on the wall.

Speaker 1:

That's very true. It's very interesting you say that I can see your blouse.

Speaker 2:

I made the colour exactly that colour today.

Speaker 1:

Did you? So it's a kind of a goldy. What would you call this? A goldy brown colour?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, mustardy brown yeah gorgeous.

Speaker 1:

It's so true. What you say, though, about how people are opinionated on colour, because I mean, I've got two daughters and, like, the main question they want to know if they meet anyone new is what is your favourite colour? So, I think that kind of carries through into our kind of grown-up years as well.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

I can kind of tell from the names that travel seems to be a big inspiration for you.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Is that true, and can you kind of tell us more about the process of how you develop your colours and how you decide when you see something out on your travels?

Speaker 2:

which ones you're going to kind of make into reality. Well, I started with my first collection, which is called the original collection, and there were 24 colours. For me that collection is the most beautiful collection that I made. It's completely complete and there is everything that you can think of, so everything that I have done.

Speaker 2:

After I had to think about what I don't have in that collection and what I can add, right, and so then, after the original collection, I made the pale collection, which was basically having all the pigments in six or eight colours which I thought were the most interesting to make lighter. And then I had the fresh collection, which they're all very pale, off-white, pinks, minty colour, green, grey, yellow, but I did it in three tones. So one is an off-white, one is a mid-tone and one is a little bit of a darker tone. So you can use one, the darker tone in the walls, the lighter tone in the ceiling, and you know the very nice off-white kind of graduation, exactly, and it kind of all works well. Yes, and then from there I cannot tell you the story of all my collections otherwise we stay here for hours.

Speaker 2:

But the latest collection, for instance, that I have just launched is called Donne d'Arte and is based on the very few artists, women, who were around the Renaissance, because for me, the Renaissance has been a very important movement of from the dark ages. There was this discovery of color and it's just wonderful, but unfortunately all the artists are men, and so I really wanted to celebrate the women. Yes, so I was imagining of a renaissance palette of colors, and then I gave them a little bit of a feminine twist right, and then I called them with the name of the artist who were using that color during that time.

Speaker 2:

So clever and so, just because you know, there is this lady called Artemisia Gentileschi and she's probably the one artist during the Renaissance that was most known by everybody, and they shared a very complicated life and in very there was a lot of violence around their life and it was really sad actually.

Speaker 2:

So a lot of artists find solace, and you know, in art, you know like sort of they all their sorrow. They are able to let it go through art and so I gave her a pink. I called it because. Then I called it with all the name of the girls and of the artist, and again, like I did for the Guru Kulam collection, and then I add, you know, so it's called Artemisia pink and it's a lovely plastery pink that can recall the pink that she uses in her painting.

Speaker 1:

Wow, so there is always.

Speaker 2:

I think that the most important thing about a collection is that I do things a little different than other paint companies, so with me there aren't blue with blue. In each collection I make six to eight colors that they actually work really well together. So you can already you can mix and match all the colors of the collection, but you can also use just one collection that suits your personality and your need. You can just use that throughout the house and it really works really well yeah, that is brilliant, so you can go with a collection you love and use the colours in that collection in different rooms and you've thought it all through that will work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that when choosing colours, you have to be, first of all, whatever makes you feel comfortable, but it's a good idea to create a flow. So it's a very good idea to create something all of the same strength and the same tone, so that there is not much contrast. And I think that what we want in our house, in our home, is to feel safe, to feel protected, to feel happy, calm, exactly, and so to have something that is totally all of the same strength creates a wonderful flow that is immediately calm, and I think the contrast can be tiring. It can be tiring, it can be very beautiful Sometimes it's lovely to have and also you can use. You know, like I obviously adore and love colours, but I actually always try to simplify things.

Speaker 2:

I hate the word trend, but because at the moment everything is color drenching, yes, but I have done color drenching all my life and I think that sometimes it's just really good, just to use a color on the ceiling, on the wall, on the woodwork, and then you have a canvas where to start from, where art usually looks fantastic over some color, and also fabrics can complement obviously all colors so much, and so then you are freer to make the room sing. Yes, you know what I mean. If you use a lot of colors, then it can be a little dispers sing. Yes, you know what I mean. We just if you use a lot of colours, then it can be a little dispersive.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I totally agree with you on that point. The majority of the listeners of this podcast. They are renovating their homes from scratch or they are decorating their homes and kind of. In my work as an interior designer, sometimes I even find it hard to choose a colour for a client, and even for myself sometimes, because there are so many factors to consider, as kind of the light in the room, the style of the room. Every single photo you show us on Instagram looks amazing and I just want to know of how do you work with your clients to choose a colourful room, and I'm sure that the listeners would absolutely love to have some of your expert advice.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Well, I think it's important to respect the house, so to see what style is the house and perhaps do a little bit of researching of what were the colours used at the time. But basically, it's all about us feeling good, so it's also, you know, to choose that colour that really makes you feel peaceful, enveloped by it, complete and calm, and then we can work. The first thing that I ask when I go to a consultation is what don't you like? Because if I tell you, oh, purple would be amazing, and you tell me, well, after 10 minutes you tell me I hate purple then we are wasting a little bit of time.

Speaker 2:

So it's always really good to know what you like and what you don't like. I notice like I actually work quite a lot with interior designer as well, and but when I go for a colour consultation to a person without interior, an interior designer is really to try to create most. Most of the time, people know what they want, but they are afraid of making the final decision by themselves. Yes, and I might be a little bit like the second brain and I might be able to give suggestions that they haven't thought of and also to to make everything easier and to have this color flow that is really important.

Speaker 2:

Like yesterday I was in Exmoor and I went to see this gorgeous client of mine who lives in the most beautiful place I have ever been In the middle of nowhere, a wonderful, wonderful house. On the other valley there is a church, so you can almost feel the energy of the church, and so you are surrounded by Exmoor colors. So a lot of green plus. I mean, we are in autumn now, so the colors are resplendent, yes, amazing. And so we have really worked with bringing the outside inside, and when I went, like, for instance, to the dining room, I felt very uncomfortable and, funnily enough. It was one of my colors that she bought, you know, before see me and because it doesn't matter. You know, like a color, you know I can make millions of colors, but if you put the color in the longer in the wrong location, yes, it's just the wrong color.

Speaker 2:

You know it can be the most beautiful color, but somewhere else not there yeah and I felt that what she had was very pale and he was so insipid right and he didn't really do anything. And actually the colour was this Julala's Hemp, which looks dark.

Speaker 1:

So we're looking at it now and it looks quite dark. It's kind of a greenish grey yeah greenish, brownish. Brown.

Speaker 2:

It's really a wonderful colour, it's the colour of hemp kind of thing, but in mass, when you see a swatch you see a swatch there. It is more the color always look darker as you put it in a bigger space. You lose around about 10 percent of the strength sometimes, and so we actually chose the most beautiful colors were around about two or three tones darker than this and it looks there is like because what I like, I, I go with my A4 pages of all the colors and then we throw I always like to throw what we chosen on the floor and put them all around. So they know this room is going to be like this and this room, yes, and there was this wonderful flow. There was no fighting, they were all going terribly well together and you already know there is a success kind of thing, because it's just a wonderful color scheme and uh, but it's something that I could see that she was really feeling comfortable with it.

Speaker 2:

It was her really. It's her house, obviously, yeah, but what she did before it was that she was afraid. You know, she was afraid of making a mistake. So let better be safe than sorry. Yes, I'm not sure that that is the case, because sometimes you have to try and then.

Speaker 1:

I think people are so scared of getting it wrong, and I always say when, but I'm not sure that that is the case, because sometimes you have to try Exactly.

Speaker 2:

I think people are so scared of getting it wrong and I always say, when it comes to paint and colour, there's some expense obviously involved, but at the end of the day it's only just paint. You know it's not like you're. But also there is this wonderful thing about now we have A4 pages, we have sample pot, yes, so you can actually try things well before. You can have a very good idea already before painting yeah committed, you know completely.

Speaker 2:

But you know it was lovely to do something. You know, because I really enjoyed yesterday because I never been to that part of exmoor I I saw there was an incredibly beautiful, beautiful landscape and to have all this wonderful colour outside and then being in this house, that potentially can be unbelievably beautiful. It was very beautiful now, my gosh, but it can only improve. Like at the entrance they use that autumn grey which is this colour here from this Houghton Hall collection.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so again, that's for people only listening. It's a greeny grey dark, it's dark, dark, greeny, grey, gorgeous colour.

Speaker 2:

And she put it at the entrance of the house, where there are all the coats and everything. Yes, and that is where we started from. Okay, I said this is the tone that you want to set. Yeah, and it's not. It's not dark, it's not traumatic, it's not scary. It's actually very elegant, very versatile, very beautiful, very classic. Yes, and because all the other colors are so much lighter, there is no energy yes, they didn't work together.

Speaker 1:

Tone together well enough yeah, yeah to you, francesca. What is the most important thing to consider, do you think, when choosing a color for our home?

Speaker 2:

for me, the most important thing to consider, do you think, when choosing a colour for our home? For me, the most important thing is to never follow a trend, because if we follow a trend, then we become very shallow and then we are very conditioned by the fact that we are following a trend, and a trend doesn't last a very long time. So you know you might do something that it's's a trend but it's not really what you want, and always do something that you feel comfortable. So you know, like I don't know, in a place like, the entrance of a house is what welcomes you and what says goodbye to you when you leave your house.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so there, for me I would always like to have my favorite color, so that that is what kind of makes me really want to go back home. You know what I mean. And then you work from there. But basically is always to choose something that makes you feel as you want to feel in your house. I might want to be very peaceful, very calm, and instead there might be people who need energy and they need yeah, you know they might be very creative or you know exactly whatever your story is, there is the right color for you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, and it's just to and and and. Most of the time, we know exactly what is the color that we really love and we want. Yeah, and so it's just to work from that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just need a bit of guidance and also one thing that I say to all my clients and this, this is something that my ex-boss, the Australian boss, taught me is because we all have opinions towards colours, and so you know, I might not like your brown, and what do we do? So you love it? Yeah, and I don't like it, it's your house. What do we do so you love it? Yeah, I don't like it, it's your house. What do you do exactly? Paint it brown. But you don't know how. I mean, I went to a consultation to this wonderful lady, amazing house in chelsea. We choose the color. We choose a green. Fantastic, do you like this green? Yes, and I always, when, always, when I do a consultation, I only give you a choice of two, because if I already give you a choice of three and four, it's like if I haven't been there, you already have too many choices. So we kind of go down and we choose our two greens. We're very happy with it. Great Eight o'clock following morning, on my mobile I see the name of my client.

Speaker 2:

I go what? It's a little bit early. We just left each other. Yes, almost in tears going, can't do green anymore because my best friend doesn't like green, okay, so then we do another cover. And then there is another friend who doesn't like it and he was like okay, let's recap the situation. Who house is this and what does he? You know, what do you really like, what is important to you? And then she kind of went okay, I want to go back to green. So now she has a green house, which is wonderful. But you know the idea. What I'm trying to say is because we are all very opinionated. Yes, then, if we ask for too many opinions, and most of the time, what if we have an instinct towards something, 99.9 percent, that instinct is actually right. Yeah, it's wonderful to be surprised and it's wonderful to have you know to actually go.

Speaker 2:

Oh wow I never thought about that, thank you, but most of the time, our instinct, you know they're right, so like. Just if you turn around, there is a big board with a fresh collection, yes, which is this collection? I'm talking about the three colors the one, two and three. So it's like one is very light, one very medium and one little bit dark. Yes, I was creating this collection. This collection is around about 25, 26 years old, and I asked, for instance, my neighbor and I said do you like these colors? And she said oh, what I would absolutely take out is the yellow, really. And I said, okay, she doesn't like, obviously she doesn't like yellow. And she said I would put an orange instead. I thought about it.

Speaker 2:

I always ask for opinion, but then I always follow my guts. Yes, because I feel that I know about colours. I don't know, I might be prescientiousious, but I feel that.

Speaker 1:

I kind of know a little bit more than most about colour.

Speaker 2:

I feel that I know how they work and also what sells. Anyway, to cut the story short, yellow that collection is the colour that sells the most wow, so that's the best seller.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. It's like it's really. But you know, if I would have listened to one, I would have been afraid, but nobody would have known what they were missing, because the yellow wasn't there anymore. You know, you just go. That actually is the only colour that I would keep, because yellow is the most difficult colour to get right. Actually it's a very difficult color, but these three shades of yellows are actually very, very simple yellow and it's a yellow that goes away. You know, goes well pretty much everywhere. You can use it as a. You know, it's just a brilliant, the number one. It's just a brilliant off-white. You know what I mean. Very, very luminous, yeah, and you know the tree is just easy.

Speaker 2:

It's not a complicated color yeah and yeah, so it's very interesting it's. It's something that is personal, you know, and I sometime I have done something that I might not like the color that my clients exactly because again it's not your house, exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah we I think we all as professionals have done things that we're like oh, I wouldn't do that in my house, yeah, but it's not my house. But then you make it work.

Speaker 2:

We made it work beautifully, it looked amazing, you know, and it suits these people. So that is job done, exactly.

Speaker 1:

That's so funny, I've just recorded an episode a couple of episodes ago called um uh, should you cons? Should you consider other people's opinions on your project?

Speaker 2:

so um I talk about who?

Speaker 1:

who you should, maybe ask who you should ask his opinions you should or shouldn't take on board. So that's what I've just done just recently done.

Speaker 2:

I'll tell you something really funny, though I you know, most of the time I mean this is a total generalization and most of the time the husband of my clients are the sponsor are the one who pay for the paint and pay for the consultation.

Speaker 2:

And most of the time, you know, like the women choose, the wives choose everything, right, and I always go. But does your husband like pink? I don't know. If you do everything pink, oh, who cares? Okay, you know. And then we arrive, because we arrive to the studio of the husband's studio, oh, I don't care what my husband like and I go. No, I care because this is the only room that he can close the door and go. You know, if you paint it somewhere that you know something that he doesn't like, then you know, you kind of put him in a really uncomfortable position in his own house, so I there's a lot of marriage counselling involved I found in interior design and I'm sure with yours as well.

Speaker 1:

Can I?

Speaker 2:

say, one of the reason why I don't actually open on Saturdays because I am fed up. When I was living in Australia, we were opening on Saturday and there were people couple who were bickering all the time about the colour of the house that they wanted to paint and I just couldn't bear it anymore. So I thought I am actually not going because Saturday is when couples can do things together and then most of the time they were not buying anything because they were bickering and they were angry and they were very bad energy.

Speaker 1:

It's like no way well, that was very clever, I have to say. When I'm speaking to people about renovating, a question I get a lot is um, you know, they're always trying to save a bit of money here and there. Sometimes, um, you know people who are perhaps carrying out their own renovations, um, and not having a designer involved, or perhaps not having someone like yourself involved, and they always say to me do I need to really get a professional decorator or can I get good results if I do it myself at home? And I always pause a bit and I always wanted to ask this question of a person who's got a paint company. But what? What would your answer to that be?

Speaker 2:

It depends on how manual a person is I mean these paints.

Speaker 2:

None of paint is not difficult to put on a wall, but if you don't cut in well, if you don't do the corners properly, you know it can just look messy, and so it really depends how manual a person is on their skills. But yeah, it's completely possible not to have a decorator, and especially with these kind of paints that I'm making, you don't actually need a paint effect decorator, specialist or anything like that. They're actually quite basic, but I mean, obviously a decorator or a painter can do it better but I have no idea they should be able to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I think that whatever a person does with any materials not mine is for me with any materials not mine is for me and it shocks me sometimes how it's to read instructions and to follow instructions and if there are problems, instead of taking initiative by googling something and looking at the video they might not be really right 's always like.

Speaker 2:

We love give any form of support that is needed to clients if they find themselves, yeah, with something. It's something that we really enjoy doing it, and most of the time when people have taken initiative, it wasn't the right one. And so then, because it's actually the problem sometimes is like if you have a problem with paint, to give another coat most of the time is not a good idea, because if it didn't work the first time, yes, give another coat on top is actually not the solution, because probably the the problem comes from underneath. It's very difficult and I'm not saying this to defend myself or any paint companies, but it's very difficult. They actually the problem is in the paint. That is always in the preparation of the surface. So when I hear some professionals, even that they call me and they say, well, we're given six coats and we have a problem.

Speaker 2:

You go bloody hell, I bet you do and also keep in mind that there are in england there are a lot of properties who have walls that they might have some, retain some moisture, humidity, and in paint there is water. So every time that you actually add, give another coat, you actually add a problem to the wall. So always, always call the manufacturer and any manufacturer, because we all I am selling a product that I know it works, but you have to follow the instructions, yes. So then I am just so happy to help you because for me, what I want you is to be happy and just to enjoy what you have bought, yes, and then be happy with the colour that you've chosen. That is my ultimate goal is just to know that my colours are love. They make people happy, calm, whatever they want to be.

Speaker 1:

Whatever they want to be in their lives. So, really preparation is key. Preparation is key.

Speaker 2:

And if you ever find yourself with a problem call yes and don't, don't put six guys on it.

Speaker 2:

Don't take too many initiatives. Initiatives are not welcome because then I can't help you anymore. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, especially if you change things too much, then then to go back to the raw surface it takes so much time, cost, anger resentment. So true. So it's so much better if we simplify our life and always talking is wonderful or emailing we have so many ways now to communicate with each other Exactly to find the right answer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, yes, okay, so your paints are eco-friendly. We touched on this earlier and I'm finding that more and more people, when they're renovating, they want to kind of focus more on those eco credentials of the materials they're using or the products they're using. So can you tell us a little bit more about your paints and actually what makes them so eco and what's in them? How are they made?

Speaker 2:

Well, we make a selection of paints and not all of them are eco. I mean now, to make paint you have to follow some law and regulation. So the VOC, which they are, the volatile organic compounds there is, is when you have painted. There is a smell. That is when the VOC are released in the atmosphere. Yes, and so for that there must be a count. I have no idea how they count a VOC, and now you would never, you would ever know how much VOC there is in paint. I don't know, but you have to follow a law.

Speaker 2:

So that is very important. But there are certain paints who still are water-based and everything and they follow the VOC, but they have plastic in it and plastic is vinyl and acrylic Okay, and so if paint has plastic, then they have a very good adhesion on the wall, so they grip the wall very well. Yes, but they are not considered ecological. So my ecological paint are the Eco Emulsion and the Lime Wash. Right ecological paint are the eco emulsion and the lime wash. The lime wash is the oldest form of paint known to men.

Speaker 2:

Before the introduction of plastic paint, we were all like washing walls. Yes, and the the beautiful thing and and the eco emotion as well. They are line based and they are lime based and they are plastic free and so they are breathable. And the most important thing about a paint being breathable is that it allows the passage of moisture. So if you find yourself in a room where there is a lot of condensation and you use a plastic paint, most of the time you will see that the paint start bubbling up. Yes, and that is because the paint cannot get absorbed into the surface and it's just sitting there and then it's moisture in the wall, exactly, and so then it's like if I put you around the plastic bag, then you start sweating, and exactly the same thing would happen to your skin, right? Yeah, you start sweating and then there are little bubbles underneath the plastic. Exactly the same thing. Right? Is that with the breathable paint? It allows the passage of moisture, it absorbs the moisture and then you release it, so the paint cannot bubble up.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I guess that's good for older properties as well like we were talking about where? The walls aren't absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I mean listed building, historical building. We have. We do it all the time, yes, and there are certain listed building that they can only use the line wash, so you cannot do anything. So we are perfect for it. But at the same time also, the eco emulsion is a completely total breathable paint so it can be used in historical or listed building because it doesn't trap the moisture and you know, obviously, to have plastic free and you know not to have any chemical to breathe when you paint. It's fantastic. But if the wall has already been painted, especially most of the time has been painted with an acrylic or a vinyl paint, when you put a breathable paint on top, the wall cannot breathe because the base has already, because people go okay, I'm using your big opinion, so you guys wall breathe it. No, because to make that you have to take off all the other paint go back to plaster and then we can talk again.

Speaker 2:

But the nice thing about normally a eco paint that he has a different absorption of because there is no plastic. Yes, they're very chalky, they're very matte, they're very deep, they have a great depth yes and they absorb the light in a wonderful way so that you can actually see all the pigments that you know.

Speaker 2:

The color keeps changes throughout the day and I think that that is one of the beautiful thing about this kind of paint. Yes, so they can absolutely be used, even in a situation where breathability is not the issue. Yes, but it's just to obtain that kind of very matte, very chalky and depth.

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely Amazing. So back onto colour, and I read that all of your paint colours are mixed from just 12 mineral, organic and synthetic pigments. I was so fascinated by this because you have so many colours and I just couldn't believe they all came from these 12 pigments.

Speaker 2:

Well, you can actually just make colours with the primary colours.

Speaker 1:

I guess you're right. You can actually make any colour, I'm obviously not a colour professional?

Speaker 2:

No, but what I am really? I think that the way that we colour paint and the way that we make colours, we are, we are a very old fashion. We are artisan. Our colour machine are not digitised. Everything is done by hand. So we use the old-fashioned carousel who's got 12 canister? Yes, and so we use 12 pigments, the pigments that I always all of my colors, except from 203 really, out of 247 yes, have raw amber in it, and raw amber is one of the oldest pigment ever been used by men and is a natural pigment because it comes from the earth, from a stone, from whatever it comes.

Speaker 2:

And then and it's like actually kind of ground up absolutely, absolutely, and then you wash it and then you sift it through so that it just becomes powder. We actually use liquefied pigment because it's just easier to keep a formula and it's just adding water. But the pigment is completely does. It doesn't have any chemical process. But what is interesting about mineral pigments are divided in natural pigments and synthetic pigments. So the natural pigment obviously come from a natural thing and are just left there as they are, and instead a synthetic pigment, it means that there's been some process done to it. So a little example that I always like to make there is Sienna. There is that kind of brownish, no, it's kind of more ochre-y red, yes, and then you put it in the oven at a very high temperature and it becomes brown. Yes, the city of Siena is painted with burnt Siena, and so the passage of this pigment is just being put in, been put in the oven, and then it's been cooked yes and so from this ochre colour it becomes a brown.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I use a lot of raw amber, but also I love using burnt amber, and raw amber is the natural pigment. Yes, and burnt amber is the mineral pigment, so it has been put in an oven to alter the appearance of the pigment.

Speaker 1:

That's so interesting. So basically, when we're calling all these colours, these fancy names like burnt, it's actually been put in an oven so that's why.

Speaker 2:

But you know, terracotta in Italian means cooked earth, so it's actually the earth yes, put in a novel, that's.

Speaker 1:

That makes total sense. So it's very basic actually.

Speaker 2:

But then there are synthetic pigments, like normally, pigments come from a rock, from a stone, from an insect and from a plant yes, from plants, plant. I, for instance, I use blue and green. They are synthetic. So synthetic green means that they have been done in a laboratory. They don't have anything natural. They still have completely. It's all good ingredients, but it doesn't come from nature. Let's also remember that nature can be incredibly toxic. It can, yeah, so arsenic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We used to make a beautiful green with arsenic, wow, but then it kind of we couldn't use it anymore, you know, but we didn't know at the beginning when we got it, you know. And then it's one of the most poison things. So you know, nature can also create a lot of toxicity. So that's the reason, you know nature can also create a lot of toxicity. So that's the reason, you know. And also, sometimes it's not actually the greenest and most intelligent solution to use something. You know you might have to destroy forests to do certain greens?

Speaker 2:

or things. So you do it, you know, synthetically, but it's still all you know, really Done in a considered way, absolutely in a very considered way.

Speaker 1:

That is so interesting. I think we're nearing the end, Francesca. Thank you so much for your time. I just have a last question for you, and it's about your own home. Could you tell us a little bit more about what your home is like and kind of the best thing about your home and the best thing you thing about your home and the best thing you love about your work?

Speaker 2:

Well, I obviously love my home very much. I live in a small two bedroom flat and it's in a little six flat building on the top floor and my home is very colorful. But, going back to the principle of flowing, everything flows together really beautifully. So I don't know, my living room is brown and my I have a very narrow corridor and in Florence, in the 17th century or something like this, they used to do very thick horizontal stripes to make to give an impression of the corridor not to be so narrow.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so I have three colors in my corridor and the top color of my stripes is actually the color of the ceiling and there is an opening with this and it's like there are three very basic colors, like my angelical pink, which is that plastery pink, and off-white and a gray. Actually is this and this and these colors they like is lovely. The plastery pink, the graces are not white and the mist is kind of a brownish colour. Yes, they look gorgeous together and my kitchen is a stony colour. My bathroom is fantastic. I think the bathrooms should be flattering. Yes, so pink, red, orange, anything's got a red in it makes us look really good. But you know, like if you do an acid green in the bathroom and you know you have a hangover. It might be very disturbing.

Speaker 1:

You know the psychology.

Speaker 2:

I think there is behind, because each color, of course, has a psychology, and this and that of course yeah and um, and so my bathroom is a gorgeous pink that I made.

Speaker 2:

I it's, it's got some spanish style, it's a shower room and it's very busy with all these very busy tires. And then I did the ceiling and whatever rest of the wall of this pink, and then I guest room is a pumpkin color. Wow, it sounds amazing. Well, I mean, you know like you might go oh my gosh, this is so much, but there is I mean, I don't know if people have been lying for all their lives when they come to me.

Speaker 2:

But I actually I never seen anybody going wow, this is so colorful because it's all very tonally correct. Yes, there is zero stress. Yeah, so the eye are very happy to see whatever you know there is in the room. Yeah, I think that's the main thing, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

it's not to walk through a home and then go like, oh wow, I wasn't expecting that with the color I just saw before yeah, all kind of flows and it's all I'll tell you very briefly.

Speaker 2:

I went to this color consultation in this I only had to deal with this kitchen and I arrived in this kitchen and I sat down and I went like, wow, this is amazing. And then, as I'm having, the client very kindly offered me a cup of tea, and so I'm having a cup of tea. I'm actually going because this is terrible, because there were too many colors. There were around about eight or nine colors in a very large room, but there was no continuation whatsoever so every corner had something.

Speaker 2:

But then you know the first, the first thing that you go, you just go wow, yes, but then you sit there and just go. I wouldn't like to eat there, it's too much. Yeah, so we simplified Two colours and there was a lovely island. That island, we made it a strong colour. Yes, that's it. I noticed I tend to simplify a lot.

Speaker 1:

I love colours, but I tend to simplify a lot, yeah, because I think that too many colors can be a little confusing yeah, I think you're right, and I think especially when in one room, in one room and then also, if you're putting lots of different colors on walls, on ceilings, on corner thing in the same room, that that's kind of jarring as well. So I really love what you said earlier about how you've been color drenching forever. It's because I love that palette of just having a kind of a base color to start with, because then that just kind of everything else you then put in that room that you kind of think carefully to bring into it, it just it somehow just makes it work better yeah, absolutely it really does, yeah, it really does yeah I think that is an amazing place to end.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, francesca.

Speaker 2:

You're very welcome, and it's another thing that I'd like to say that I give color consultations, yes, and so if any body needs any color help, I'm very happy, and it's one with creating colors.

Speaker 1:

Color matching, color consultation is something that I really enjoy doing amazing, and I think I think we've all got to a point at some point in our homes where we're just a bit stuck. So that is an amazing thing thing to call on um. What I'll do is I'll link to that in the show notes so I'll make a note of that on thank you um on the show notes so people can find that. Yeah, and where else can they find you? Is there anything else you would like to?

Speaker 2:

well, we actually we love helping people, we love uh, you know, really giving any suggestion or any technical thing, but everything is written really beautifully on the website and it's very self-explanatory. And also there is a nice gallery where you can people can relate to, they can see images. You know there is obviously the Instagram page and you know, but we basically on the website we really talk about. You know everything that you can think about the application, the preparation, what to do, what not to do, and you know how we give color consultation, how we do color matching. So it's all very self-explanatory, but that is a nice thing to do. They can also come and see me here at the studio in Battersea.

Speaker 1:

It's amazing here so I would definitely recommend that. But I will link to all of that, so I'll link to your website so people can find you. I will link to your colour consultations and I will link to your Instagram thank you, thank you, thank you, francesca, for this amazing interview.

Speaker 1:

It's been great. Thank you so much. Thank you For more information on my five pillar process for successful renovation. You can go directly to southplacestudiocom forward slash pillars where you'll find an introduction to the process which covers each of the pillars and what they cover. We also have a number of other free renovation resources. Go now to southplacestudiocom forward slash freebies. I have created some amazing freebies for you there. There is one on the process, like we just said. There is one on planning permission, there is one on kitchen design, there is another one on lighting planning. Go and check those out. There's so much free information there to help you with your renovation.