Podkast GOVSI
Voditeljica Vesna Žarkovič: Dober dan, spoštovane gledalke in gledalci, poslušalke in poslušalci. Lepo vas pozdravljam v tretjem vladnem podkastu Govsi v produkciji Urada vlade za komuniciranje. Z vami sem Vesna Žarkovič z Urada Vlade Republike Slovenije za komuniciranje. Tokrat se bomo v podkastu posvetili aktualni vladni temi, in sicer spremembam Zakona o osnovni šoli, ki je bil nedavno dokončno potrjen v državnem zboru. Z mano je državna sekretarka na Ministrstvu za vzgojo in izobraževanje ga. Janja Zupančič, ki je aktivno sodelovala pri pripravi zakona in bo pojasnila vse novosti, ki jih prinaša zakon. Lepo pozdravljeni, gospa Zupančičeva.
Državna sekretarka Janja Zupančič: Lep dober dan.
Voditeljica: Za začetek vprašanje. Preden ste prišli na ministrstvo, ste delali več let na srednji šoli, ste učili tuje jezike, pa potem ste bili ravnateljica na Osnovni šoli Louisa Adamiča v Grosuplju. In me zanima. Prihajate torej iz učilnic in imate dosti izkušenj z učenci in starši. Kakšen je vaš pogled na slovenski šolski sistem, kakršen je danes?
Zupančič:Ja, sedanji šolski sistem je precej drugačen, kot je bil pred leti. Vse te stvari, ki se dogajajo v družbi, se v šoli zelo odražajo, od različnih dogodkov, kot so migracije, spremembe pri učencih, kar zadeva posebne potrebe, do tega, da imamo zdaj težave s pomanjkanjem učiteljev, različnih zahtev in pričakovanj, tudi staršev. In pa seveda, tudi vodenje zavodov, šol, se spreminja.
Voditeljica: Izhodišče najinega pogovora so torej spremembe, je nov zakon, novela zakona o osnovnem šolstvu. Kakšne so, če na kratko lahko opredelite, te spremembe in zakaj so sploh potrebne?
Zupančič: Ja, seveda je šola živa skupnost, ki pa seveda se mora prilagajati temu, kar sem že prej omenila. Dogajanju v okolju, različnim potrebam in pričakovanjem vseh, ki so vpleteni. In ta novela zelo lepo nagovarja in odgovarja na različna področja, ki so se v zadnjih letih izpostavljala in temeljijo tudi na poskusu, ki je trajal od leta 2018 na različnih podatkih, spremljavah. Tako da verjamemo, da odgovarja temu, kar ta trenutek šola potrebuje. To pomeni, da se uvaja obvezno učenje tujega jezika v prvem razredu. Potem so spremembe, ki zadevajo nacionalno preverjanje znanja, delo z učenci s posebnimi potrebami, izobraževanje na domu in tako naprej.
Voditeljica: Če recimo začneva pri obveznem prvem tujem jeziku, torej v prvem razredu osnovne šole. Zakaj recimo vidite potrebo, da ste se tako odločili?
Zupančič: Tuj jezik je bil do sedaj kot neobvezni izbirni predmet. To pomeni, da so se starši odločili, ali bo njihov otrok obiskoval pouk, recimo angleščine ali pa nemščine, v prvem razredu. In to odločitev je sprejela skoraj večina staršev, se pravi 92 % in več. In zato je ta rešitev postala tudi sistemska. Se pravi, bo zdaj obvezna za vse učence.
Voditeljica: Prav gotovo bo to sigurno ena dobrodošla novost v osnovnih šolah. Naslednja novost pa je uvedba nacionalnega preverjanja znanja že za tretješolce. Zanima me, če bo to obvezno za vse osnovne šole ali samo za nekatere? Bo to prepuščeno prosti izbiri osnovnih šol? Kako bo s tem?
Zupančič: Do sedaj je bilo nacionalno preverjanje znanja obvezno za učence šestih in devetih razredov, po novem pa bo tudi za učence tretjega razreda, kar pomeni, da se ob koncu posameznega vzgojno-izobraževalnega obdobja preverja znanje učencev. V tretjem razredu se osredotočamo na preverjanje bralne in matematične pismenosti. V tem trenutku več kot polovica osnovnih šol to že izvaja prostovoljno, ker so ti podatki za njih pomembni v tem oziru, da preverijo, kako dosegajo cilje, kako so kot šola uspešni, imajo povratno informacijo zase, za učence, za starše in lahko na tej podlagi načrtujejo izboljšave, medtem ko pa sprememba, ki pa se bo uveljavila v devetem razredu, pa pomeni, da se bodo dosežki učencev v devetem razredu lahko upoštevali pri vpisu v srednjo šolo kot eno od meril v primeru, ko bodo učenci imeli enako število točk.
Voditeljica: Se pravi, to se ne spreminja. To ostaja v bistvu, kot je bilo do zdaj?
Zupančič: Tako. Za njih je sprememba ta, da bodo imeli na spričevalu zapisano poleg zaključnih ocen tudi dosežke nacionalnega preverjanja znanja in pa državno povprečje. In pa seveda, da bodo ob vpisu v srednjo šolo, če bo potrebno, se ti dosežki lahko tudi upoštevali.
Voditeljica: Spreminja se tudi zasnova tako imenovanega razširjenega programa. Po novem naj bi bilo več poudarka na gibanju, na zdravju učencev in pa učenju učenja. Če lahko kaj več poveste o tem. Mogoče začneva pri gibanju, bo več šolskih ur posvečenih telovadbi, torej tej vzgoji?
Zupančič: Nov, prenovljen koncept razširjenega programa pomeni, da se združuje vse elemente, ki so bili sedaj kot jutranje varstvo, podaljšano bivanje, dopolnilni, dodatni pouk, neobvezni izbirni predmeti v enoten koncept razširjenega programa. To pomeni, da se bo razširjeni program izvajal pred poukom in po pouku, lahko pa tudi med poukom, če se bodo za to odločili vsi učenci posameznega oddelka. Šola je dolžna ponuditi ta program za prvošolce pred poukom. In tukaj bo šola lahko zelo avtonomno načrtovala svoje delo glede na potrebe in interese učencev, glede na njihove zmožnosti. So pa tu tri področja, ki so prednostna oz. tri vsebinska področja, iz katerih je sestavljen razširjeni program, pokrivajo pa gibanje, zdravje, kulturno in domovinsko vzgojo ter učenje učenja.
Voditeljica: Lahko kaj več poveste mogoče o učenju učenja? Se vam zdi, da zdaj so otroci dovolj opremljeni s tem znanjem?
Zupančič: Ja, vedno obstaja prostor in priložnost za to, da se učenci ali pa tudi mi, odrasli, ko se učimo, da razmišljamo, da spoznamo zakonitosti, kako se učimo. Ker nam to lahko zelo koristi pri tem, da razumemo sebe in uporabljamo različne strategije pri učenju in smo pri tem tudi bolj učinkoviti.
Voditeljica: Bo torej ta novost glede gibanja, ki jo omenjate, v program vnesla več ur telovadbe, telesne vzgoje?
Zupančič: Gre za gibanje, se pravi, osnovna ideja je, da ima otrok eno uro gibanja na dan. Se pravi, en del je pouk športa, ki je del obveznega programa, v razširjenem programu pa seveda se ta obvezni del dopolnjuje. Šola bo ponudila aktivnosti, otroci pa se v to vključijo prostovoljno. Mogoče je tukaj še pomembna informacija, da šola je dolžna ponuditi vsebine razširjenega programa skladno s konceptom kurikuluma, učenci pa se v to vključujejo prostovoljno.
Voditeljica: Zakon določa, da se otroci izobražujejo v javni in zasebni šoli ali pa na domu. In novela prinaša tudi spremembe izobraževanja na domu. Katere so te spremembe? Jih lahko pojasnite?
Zupančič: Tukaj je mogoče pomembno povedati, da je cilj vzgoje in izobraževanja, da vsi učenci, ki obiskujejo osnovnošolski program, ne glede na to, ali je to v zasebni, javni šoli ali pa se izobražujejo na domu, je pomembno, da pridobijo enak standard znanja. Učenci, ki se izobražujejo na domu, bodo po novem opravljali ocenjevanje znanja iz vseh predmetov, ki se poučujejo v posameznem razredu. To je velika sprememba, ki pa bo imela za posledico tudi to, da se bo spremenil podzakonski akt. To je Pravilnik o šolskem koledarju za osnovne šole. Ker se bo sedanji rok, ta izpitni rok, ustrezno temu podaljšal. Poleg tega pa so v novem zakonu tudi določene obveznosti šol do staršev in do otrok. Se pravi, učenec si bo lahko izposodil učbenike iz šolskega učbeniškega sklada. V šoli bo lahko opravljal teoretični in praktični del kolesarskega izpita. Potem bo šola dolžna starše obveščati o preventivnih zdravstvenih pregledih in pa pomembne so tudi informacije glede znanja. Šola bo predstavila staršem standarde znanja in tudi kriterije za ocenjevanje, roke in tako naprej.
Voditeljica: Če prav razumem, večina teh stvari do zdaj ni bilo v veljavi. Ali kako?
Zupančič: Zdaj starši obvestijo šolo, da bodo svojega otroka izobraževali na domu, in s tem prevzamejo vse odgovornosti. Do sedaj je bilo tako, da so v prvem vzgojno-izobraževalnem obdobju učenci opravljali izpit samo iz jezika, materinščine, in matematike, potem v drugem vzgojno-izobraževalnem obdobju iz treh predmetov in potem seveda iz več. Zdaj pa bo potrebno, da bodo opravljali izpite iz vseh predmetov, ki se v posameznem razredu poučujejo, in to predstavlja eno od pomembnih novosti. Ampak na ta način tudi mi želimo spremljati to izobraževanje, ki se izvaja na domu in preverjati, da bodo imeli ob koncu devetletnega izobraževanja tudi primerljiva izhodišča za šolanje v srednji šoli.
Voditeljica: Morda veste, koliko je takšnih otrok v Sloveniji, ki se šolajo doma?
Zupančič: Ja, v tem trenutku jih je približno 870.
Voditeljica: Torej, novosti se obetajo tudi pri izobraževanju učencev s posebnimi potrebami in pa izobraževanju učencev, katerih materni jezik ni slovenščina. Zlasti to slednje predstavlja vse večji problem v šolstvu. Zato, ker številni izmed teh otrok pouka v slovenskem jeziku niti ne razumejo, mu ne morejo slediti. In velika večina osnovnih šol se sooča z izzivom, kako naj otroke tujcev, ki se preselijo v Slovenijo, uspešno vključijo v pouk. Kaj se tu predvideva kot novost?
Zupančič: Ja, bom najprej poskusila par informacij o izobraževanju otrok s posebnimi potrebami. Tukaj je pomembna novost, da bodo šole s prilagojenim programom in pa zavodi za vzgojo in izobraževanje otrok in mladostnikov s posebnimi potrebami lahko v času počitnic organizirali varstvo za te učence, kar bo pomembno razbremenilo tudi starše. In pa uvaja se tudi pouk slovenskega znakovnega jezika in jezika gluhoslepih. Kar zadeva pa priseljence, pa seveda vemo, da se nam število učencev v šolah povečuje in da se je treba prilagoditi tej situaciji. Zato imamo predvideno učenje začetnega pouka slovenščine. In potem bo šola postopoma učenca vključevala v pouk, se pravi hkrati s poučevanjem slovenščine se bo učenec tudi vključeval v pouk, tako da bo imel čim več stika z vrstniki in s slovenskim jezikom, kar verjamemo, da bo prispevalo k uspešni integraciji.
Voditeljica: Kdaj lahko pričakujemo, da bodo predpisane spremembe tudi zaživele v praksi?
Zupančič: Zakon je bil včeraj objavljen v uradnem listu, kar pomeni, da se bo začel izvajati s 1. septembrom. Je pa tukaj pomembna še ena informacija mogoče, da so sedaj tisti starši, ki so se odločili, da bodo svoje otroke izobraževali na domu, bili to dolžni sporočiti šoli do 31. avgusta. V letošnjem letu pa je ta rok 16. avgust, kar bo pomenilo, da bodo šole lahko malce lažje načrtovale organizacijo, ker bodo le nekaj dni prej obveščene o tem.
Voditeljica: In še za konec vprašanje. Jeseni leta 2016 ste bili ime tedna na Valu 202, ko ste bili ravnateljica v osnovni šoli v Grosuplju. Vaša šola je prejela naziv za najbolj kulturno šolo in takrat ste ob tej priliki izjavili, da je vsak otrok izredna priložnost, če ga znamo prav razvijati in spodbujati. Kako, menite, bodo te novosti v zakonu spodbudile ravno te priložnosti pri otrocih?
Zupančič: Prepričana sem, da bodo spodbujale otroke, njihove talente, njihove interese, sposobnosti. Če pogledamo, naslavlja zakon tudi različne skupine otrok, tako otroke s posebnimi potrebami, otroke, ki se še intenzivno učijo slovenskega jezika in se želijo integrirati v šolsko skupnost, kot mlajše otroke, ki se učijo tujih jezikov, pri katerih intenzivno skrbimo za razvoj bralne pismenosti in matematične pismenosti, pri čemer je potrebno povedati, da je bralna pismenost temelj vseh naslednjih pismenosti, ki jih razvijamo tudi, recimo, v okviru razširjenega programa. Se potem pojavljajo digitalna, finančna pismenost in druge. Zato je res pomembno, da tukaj podpremo to področje in tako pridobivamo podatke in na podlagi teh podatkov usmerjamo vzgojni in učni proces, motivacijo otrok, strategije dela itn. Dejansko so zelo pomembna področja, ki so naslovljena, in verjamem, da bodo tudi šole, učitelji in vodstva šol, ravnatelji, tukaj prepoznali te prednosti. Podprli jih bomo tudi z usmeritvami s strateškimi dokumenti. Tukaj imamo kurikulum za razširjeni program, smernice za delo z učenci priseljenci in seveda številne druge dokumente, ki podpirajo ... Seveda tudi gre za dodatno usposabljanje tistih, ki bodo usposabljanja potrebovali, podporo s strani Zavoda za šolstvo, kar zadeva strokovno podporo. In vse to skupaj naj se poveže in združi v to, da bomo slišali otroka in mu ponudili tisto, kar potrebuje, da bo razvil te svoje potenciale.
Voditeljica: Gospa Zupančič, najlepša hvala za vaš obisk v studiu, za vaše odgovore na naša vprašanja. Pri nadaljnjem delu vam želim še veliko uspeha, veliko novih izzivov, vam, cenjene gledalke in gledalci, pa najlepša hvala za vašo pozornost. Na svidenje.
Zupančič: Hvala lepa.
[ENGLISH VERSION]
Host: Dear ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you in the third government podcast Govsi in production of the Government Communication Office. I am Vesna Žarkovič of the Government Communication Office. This time we will dedicate our time to a current topic, amendments to the Act on Primary Schools, which was recently adopted in the National Assembly. Here with me is the Secretary of State for Ministry of Education Mrs. Janja Zupančič who actively participated in drafting this law. She will explain all novelties of this Act. Hello, Mrs. Zupančič.
Zupančič: Good afternoon.
Host: I have a first question. Before you came to the Ministry, you've been teaching foreign languages at the secondary school, then you were a principal at primary school Luisa Adamiča in Grosuplje. You come from classrooms and are experienced with pupils and parents. How do you see Slovenian school system as it is today?
Zupančič: Current school system is quite different than a few years ago. All events in the society are reflected in school as well. From various events like migrations, changes regarding pupils with special needs, troubles with a shortage of teachers and different demands from parents. And of course, managing of these institutions is changing.
Host: The basis of our conversation are amendments and a new Act, amended Act on Primary Schools. What are these changes, if you can define them briefly? Why are they necessary?
Zupančič: School is a living, breathing community, but it has to adapt to the events in the surroundings, to different needs and expectations of everybody involved. This amendment is nicely addressing different areas which were exposed in the last years. It is based on the experiment that lasted from the year 2018 and on different information. We believe that it is exactly what this school needs right now. We are introducing a compulsory foreign language learning in the first grade already. Some changes are connected with national level examinations, work with special needs pupils, home schooling and so on.
Host: Let's start with a compulsory foreign language learning in the 1st grade. Why do you see it necessary and have decided for it?
Zupančič: A foreign language was an optional subject up till now. Parents were deciding, whether their child will be attending the class of English or German language in the 1st class. This decision was supported by the majority of parents, more than 92%. That's why this solution will be compulsory for everybody.
Host: I'm sure it will be a welcome novelty in Primary schools. The next novelty is national level examinations for 3rd grade. Will it be compulsory in all primary schools? Will primary schools be able to decide about it freely?
Zupančič: The national level examinations were compulsory for the 6th and 9th grade. We are introducing 3rd grade as well and it means that the knowledge of pupils will be examined at the end of every period. In the 3rd grade it will be focused on reading and mathematical skills. More than half of primary schools are doing it already, because this information is important. They have to check, how are they successful as a school, they get feedback, for pupils and parents as well, and they can plan improvements. Meanwhile a change for the 9th grade means that achievements of the pupils could be taken into consideration as one of the measures for entry in secondary schools, if pupils should have the same number of points.
Host: In the 9th grade everything stays as it was.
Zupančič: Exactly. The only change for them is that the points from national level examinations and national average will be written in the certificate. And if needed, these achievements will be taken into consideration.
Host: A concept of so called extended program is also changing. Now, there should be given more emphasis to exercise, health and learning how to learn. Can you tell us more about it? Let's start with exercise. Will there be more hours dedicated to the gym?
Zupančič: A new concept of the extended program means that all the elements, such as morning care, extended stay, remedial schooling, additional class and elective class, will be united in one concept of the extended program. This program will be performed before and after school or during classes, if all pupils agree on that. The school should offer this program before classes and it can plan its work very independently, depending on needs and capabilities of the pupils. There are three areas with a priority or three thematic areas which constitute an extended program. They are covering movement, health, cultural and patriotic education and learning to learn.
Host: Can you tell us more about learning to learn. Do you feel the children have enough knowledge?
Zupančič: There is always space or opportunity for pupils or adults to think or get to know the rules, how to study. It can benefit us to understand ourselves and use different strategies and be more efficient.
Host: Will the novelty of exercise bring more hours of gym classes? Physical education?
Zupančič: The emphasis is on movement. The basic idea is that a child gets one hour of exercise a day. One part of this is a physical education, which is compulsory, and this will be complemented in the extended program. A school will offer activities and children will get involved in them voluntarily. Perhaps another important information. The school is obliged to offer the extended program contents in accordance with the concept, with the curriculum, and the pupils participate voluntarily.
Host: The act stipulates that children are educated in a public school, a private school or at home. The amendment also brings changes to homeschooling. What are these changes, can you explain them?
Zupančič: I have to say that the goal of education is that all pupils who attend primary school, whether it is in a private school, a public school or at home, need to acquire the same standard of knowledge. Homeschooled pupils will now have to take exams in all subjects taught in their grade. This is a big change, the consequence of which will be the amendment of the Regulations on the school calendar for primary schools. The current exam deadline will be extended accordingly. In addition, the new act includes certain obligations of schools to parents and children. Pupils will be able to borrow textbooks from the school's fund, they will be able to take the theoretical and practical part of the cycling test at school, the school will be obliged to inform parents about preventive health checks. The information about knowledge is also important. The school will brief parents on knowledge standards, criteria for evaluation, deadlines and so on.
Host: If I understand correctly, most of these things have not been in force before?
Zupančič: Before, parents informed the school that they will educate their child at home, and thus assume all responsibilities. In the first education period, the pupils only took exams in their mother tongue and mathematics. In the second education period, in three subjects, and later in more. But now they will have to take exams in all the subjects taught in their grade. This is one of the important changes. This way we also want to monitor homeschooling and make sure that at the end of the nine-year education, the children will have comparable starting points for secondary school.
Host: Do you know how many children are being homeschooled in Slovenia?
Zupančič: Right now, there are about 870.
Host: There are also changes in the education of pupils with special needs and those whose mother tongue is not Slovenian. Especially the latter represent a growing problem in education, because many of these children do not even understand the lessons in the Slovenian language. Most primary schools face the challenge of how to keep the children of foreigners who move to Slovenia successfully included in the lessons. What changes are foreseen here?
Zupančič: Let me first talk about the education of children with special needs. The important change is that schools with an adapted program and institutions for the education of children and adolescents with special needs can organise care for these pupils during the holidays, which will significantly relieve the burden on parents. Classes in Slovenian sign and protactile language are also being introduced. As far as immigrants are concerned, we know that the number of pupils in schools is increasing, and that we need to adapt to this situation as well. That's why we're planning beginner lessons of Slovenian and then the school will gradually include the pupils in the lessons. At the same time as learning Slovenian, the pupils will also be involved in the lessons, so that they have as much contact as possible with their peers and with the Slovenian language. We believe this will contribute to successful integration.
Host: When can we expect the prescribed changes to come into effect?
Zupančič: The act was published in the Official Gazette yesterday, it will be implemented from 1 September. But another important information. Those parents who decided to educate their children at home were obliged to notify the school by 31 August. This year, this deadline is 16 August, so that the schools will be able to plan everything, as they will be informed a few days earlier.
Host: Last question. In the autumn of 2016, you were the name of the week on Val 202. When you were the principal of the primary school in Grosuplje, your school was awarded the title of the most cultural school. You stated that every child is an extraordinary opportunity, if we know how to develop and encourage them. How will these changes encourage children?
Zupančič: I am sure that they will encourage children, their talents, their interests, abilities. The act addresses different groups of children, children with special needs, children who are still intensively learning Slovenian language and want to integrate into the community, as well as younger children who are learning foreign languages, where we're promoting reading and mathematical literacy. I have to say that reading literacy is the foundation of all subsequent literacy, which we're developing within the extended program, digital literacy, financial literacy and others. It is really important to support this area, obtain data, and, based on this data, guide the educational process, the motivation of children, work strategies and so on. The act is addressing very important areas. I believe that schools as well as teachers, school management, principals, will recognise these advantages. We will support them with guidelines, with strategic documents, we have the curriculum for the extended program, guidelines for working with immigrant pupils and many other support documents. There will also be additional training for those who need it, the professional support of the Education Institute. All of this should be connected and combined in the fact that we listen to the child and offer them what they need to develop their potential.
Host: Mrs Zupančič, thank you very much for being here, for answering our questions. I wish you a lot of success in your further work, many new challenges. Dear viewers, thank you very much for your attention. Goodbye.
Zupančič: Thank you very much.