S Sursom do boljših odločitev in smeha

V novi epizodi vladnega podkasta GOVSI, ki ga je vodila Petra Bezjak Cirman, smo se poglobili v svet statistike z gostom Apolonijo Oblak Flander, generalnim direktorjem Statističnega urada Republike Slovenije (SURS), in Martinom Bajželjem, vodjo sektorja za objavo podatkov in komuniciranje. Govorili so o pomenu statistike za vsakdanje odločitve, vodenje družbe in razvoj gospodarstva. 

Statistika je pogosto napačno razumljena kot suhoparno obdelovanje števila. A kot sta poudarjena gosta, predstavlja osrednje orodje za razumevanje družbenih in gospodarskih tokov. »Država brez statistike ne more delovati,« je izpostavila Oblak Flander. Podatki, ki jih SURS zagotavlja, zagotavlja podjetjem, prebivalcem in državam sprejema premišljene odločitve. Od oblikovanja turistične strategije do spremljanja demografskih sprememb – statistika je vtkana v vse ravni družbenega delovanja.

V oddaji so spregovorili tudi o prisotnosti Sursa na družbenih omrežjih. Da bi okrepili zanimanje javnosti za podatke, se je na svojih profilih razvil edinstven pristop, ki združuje strokovnost v humorju. Bajželj je razkril, da je tako prvič posegel po bolj sproščeni komunikaciji leta 2013 med evropskim prvenstvom v košarki. Odličen odziv jih je spodbudil, da podatke danes pogosto predstavljajo na zabaven in kreativen način. »Naš cilj je podatke narediti dostopne in zanimive tudi tistim, ki se sicer ne uporabljajo,« je še poudaril.

Vabljeni k poslušanju in ogledu podkasta. 

[ANGLEŠKA RAZLIČICA]
Making Better Decisions and Finding Humor - with statistics

In the new episode of the government GOVSI podcast, hosted by Petra Bezjak Cirman, we delved into the world of statistics with guests Apolonija Oblak Flander, Director-General of the Statistical Office of the Republic of Slovenia (SURS), and Martin Bajželj, Head of the Data Publishing and Communication Sector. They discussed the importance of statistics for everyday decision-making, societal governance, and economic development.

Statistics are often mistakenly perceived as dry number crunching. However, as the guests emphasized, it is a key tool for understanding social and economic trends. »A state cannot function without statistics,« highlighted Oblak Flander. The data provided by SURS enable businesses, residents, and the government to make informed decisions. From shaping tourism strategies to monitoring demographic changes—statistics are embedded in all levels of societal functioning.

The episode also touched on the SURS's presence on social media. To enhance public interest in data, they have developed a unique approach on their profiles, combining professionalism with humor. Bajželj revealed that they first adopted a more relaxed communication style in 2013 during the European Basketball Championship. The excellent response encouraged them to often present data in a fun and creative way today. »Our goal is to make data accessible and interesting even to those who don’t typically use it,« he added.

You are invited to listen and watch the episode.

Transcript

Vladni podkast Gov.si

Voditeljica Petra Bezjak Cirman: Dober dan, spoštovane gledalke in gledalci, poslušalke in poslušalci. Dobrodošli v 16. epizodi vladnega podkasta Gov.si v produkciji Urada Vlade Republike Slovenije za komuniciranje. Z vami sem Petra Bezjak Cirman in vas vabim, da spremljate naše podkaste na vseh platformah, kjer jih lahko poslušate. Danes se bomo podali v zanimiv svet statistike, v znanost, ki stoji za podatki, grafi in analizo, a v resnici oblikuje način, kako razumemo svet okoli sebe. Na prvi pogled gre morda za suhoparna števila in grafe, a v resnici je statistika orodje, ki nam pomaga razumeti vzorce, preveriti resnice in sprejemati boljše odločitve. Skupaj bomo raziskali, kako podatki oblikujejo naš vsakdan. Z nami sta danes izjemna gosta. Dokaz, da statistika nikakor ni dolgočasna. Generalna direktorica Statističnega urada Republike Slovenije Apolonija Oblak Flander. Dober dan.

Apolonija Oblak Flander: Lepo pozdravljeni.

Voditeljica: In vodja Sektorja za objavljanje podatkov in komuniciranje Martin Bajželj. Pozdravljen.

Bajželj: Dober dan.

Voditeljica: Pred snemanjem smo se dogovorili, da se bomo tikali. Upam, da nam uspe.

Bajželj: Se bomo potrudili.

Voditeljica: Začenjamo s statistiko. V koliko podkastov sta doslej sodelovala, Apolonija? 

Oblak Flander: Mislim, da sem sodelovala v enem, in sicer podkastu, videokast je pa danes zame prvič.

Voditeljica: Čestitke, kaj treme?

Oblak Flander: Se bom pustila voditi in upam, da bomo tudi tole tremo zmogli.

Voditeljica: Sigurno. Zagotovo. Martin, ti si pa vešč javnega nastopanja. Tudi v Dobro jutro te kdaj vidimo. 

Bajželj: Ja. Tam večkrat kot pa na podkastu. Sicer nekaj malega pa imam tudi izkušenj s podkasti. Mislim, da dvakrat sem pa že bil.

Voditeljica: Torej treme ni? 

Bajželj: Čisto malo.

Voditeljica: Okej. Ne grizem. Na SURS-u se ukvarjate z mnogimi področji. Ali morda spremljate tudi statistiko podkastov v Sloveniji? 

Oblak Flander: Statistike števila podkastov ne vodimo. Na žalost. Izvajamo pa raziskovanja o uporabi IKT v gospodinjstvih in pri posameznikih in v letošnjem letu v prvem četrtletju je v Sloveniji poslušalo ali pa preneslo podkast kar 23 odstotkov uporabnikov interneta, tako da imamo splošne statistike, ne pa da bi vodili, kdo vse podkaste dela in da bi nekako na nekem mestu skupaj zbirali.

Voditeljica: Martin, torej novo orodje, ki se ga moramo poslužiti? 

Bajželj: Definitivno.

Voditeljica: Svetujete torej? 

Bajželj: Ja, ja.

Voditeljica: Podkast je objavljen na petek, 13. Zveni zlovešče. Upam, da se bo v redu naložil. Verjetno imate tudi kakšen statistični podatek o petkih, 13. 

Bajželj:  Ja, se najde tudi nekaj o petkih, 13. v naših bazah. 

Voditeljica: Zdaj, najbrž tisti najbolj zaželen podatek, se pravi, ali je to res nesrečen dan ali ne. 

Bajželj: Tega pa žal nimamo. Lahko pa sklepamo, da to ni za vse nesrečen dan, ker na petek, 13. decembra, rojstni dan praznuje približno 5000 prebivalcev Slovenije, tako da oni mislim, da ne bodo tako nesrečni in bodo imeli razlog za slavje. Ampak tako kot sem pa rekel, če je pa to res nesrečen dan ali ne, tega pa žal tudi statistiki ne vemo.

Voditeljica: Torej vse najboljše vsem tem 5000 v Sloveniji. Za statistiko pravijo, da je ključ, ki nam pomaga odkriti vzorce v kaosu, preveriti trditve in sprejemati boljše odločitve. Od športa in zdravstva do politike in ekonomije. povsod, kjer se srečujemo s podatki, statistika igra pomembno vlogo. Apolonija, katero področje je po tvojem mnenju danes preprosto takšno, ki ne bi moglo delovati brez statistike?

Oblak Flander: Na statističnem uradu zbiramo podatke za vsa področja in težko bi izpostavila eno področje, ki ne bi moglo delovati. Ker je res statistika, je prežeta vsa področja. Tako kot ste že omenili. Verjetno država ne bi mogla delovati. Mi smo vladna služba in podpiramo delovanje države. Je pa naša vloga tudi v tem, da zagotavljamo podatke tudi za podjetja in prebivalstvo, da se lahko odločajo tudi o poslovanju podjetij in svoje osebne odločitve sprejemajo na podlagi podatkov. Recimo, mogoče, če gremo čisto na neko osebno raven. Na statističnem uradu smo že pred leti vzpostavili podatkovno bazo imen na podlagi centralnega registra prebivalstva in tam lahko tisti, ki iščejo imena za novorojence, pobrskajo po naši bazi, ki je prosto dostopna, in pogledajo, katera so najpogostejša. Tako da mogoče niso vsi v tistem območju, kjer se bo ta otrok rodil, enako poimenovani. Verjetno je neko področje je področje makroekonomije, kjer si res ne predstavljamo brez uradne statistike. Ali pa recimo področje demografije, da vidimo, kaj se nam dogaja v prebivalstvu. Turizem, kmetijske statistike, res v bistvu pokrivamo celoto, tako da je res bogat nabor in si želimo, da bi ti podatki tudi bili uporabljeni za podatkovno podprto odločanje. Tako kot smo rekli, na ravni države, podjetij, posameznikov in družbe kot celote.

Voditeljica: Kako nam torej izboljšuje naše delovanje? Tako kot posamezniku kot podjetjem, družbi?

Oblak Flander: Ja, verjetno bi lahko navedli en primer. Mogoče bo to najlažje razumeti. Recimo s področja statistik turizma. Se pravi, na statističnem uradu zagotavljamo res široko paleto statističnih podatkov na področju turizma. In če gledamo najnižjo raven, se pravi na ravni poslovnega subjekta, tisti, ki delujejo na področju turizma in gostinstva, tam najdejo podatke, da se lahko primerjajo z drugimi, kako poslujejo, koliko recimo oni imajo prenočitev s primerljivimi drugimi, recimo nastanitvenimi obrati. Na lokalni ravni lahko gledajo, kaj se jim dogaja v naši destinaciji, v sosednji destinaciji. Potem gremo na višjo raven, recimo smo Slovenska turistična organizacija. Ko imamo recimo sezonsko večji priliv gostov, lahko usmerja tokove na podlagi naših podatkov. In nenazadnje seveda država, da postavlja strateške odločitve o upravljanju tega področja v državi, zato da je trajnostno, zato da je ta dodana vrednost, ki se potem vrača v okolje in za poslovne subjekte.

Voditeljica: Če SURS nekaj mesecev ne bi deloval, kdo se ne bi znašel v državi?

Oblak Flander: Ja, iskreno povedano, mislim, da bi najhitreje dobili klice za področje statistike plač, inflacije, bruto domačega proizvoda. Statistike se nam zdi včasih, da že produciramo preveč, vendar takoj naslednji dan, ko nečesa ne objavimo ali imamo zadrege s samim procesom ali pa smo se odločili, da bomo naredili selekcijo, kaj sploh še bomo v prihodnosti objavili. Takoj naslednji dan vidimo, da imamo uporabnike nekaterih podatkov, za katere smo mislili, da so že tako rekoč sami sebi namen, tako da mi zelo skrbno vsako leto razmislimo, ali moramo te podatke še zagotavljati ali ne. Ali so uporabniki in vedno skušamo biti racionalni pri tem, pri čemer pa moramo seveda podpreti različne uporabnike. In teh je res veliko.

Voditeljica: Ste vladna služba. Torej, eden od uporabnikov je tudi vlada. Kako ji pomagate pri njenem odločanju?

Oblak Flander: Mi sodelujemo z vlado, z ministrstvi predvsem na način, da zaznavamo njihove uporabniške potrebe. Mi neprestano spremljamo, kaj se dogaja na področju sprememb zakonodaje ali nove zakonodaje. Spremljamo tudi, kaj se dogaja na evropski ravni, ne samo na področju statistične zakonodaje, ampak tudi, kaj se predvideva, da bo država morala zagotavljati zato, da bomo lahko se podatkovno podprto odločali. Tako da v bistvu naše delo je kontinuirano spremljanje teh uporabniških potreb in imamo tudi eno dobro prakso v evropskem statističnem sistemu. Že od 80. let imamo vzpostavljene statistične sosvete, kjer mi nekako na leto in pol v bistvu srečamo vse uporabnike in dajalce podatkov, zato da ostajamo relevantni in da imamo res kakovostne podatke za uporabnike.

Voditeljica: Martin, ti s svojimi sodelavci pripravljaš pa te podatke na tako zabaven in razumljiv način, uporabljaš tudi družbena omrežja in bili ste celo lani nagrajeni. Prejeli ste nagrado Slovenskega društva za odnose z javnostmi. Zelo lepo so zapisali. Zdaj bom prebrala. Komunikacijskem oddelku SURS-a je uspelo oblikovati vrhunske profile na družabnih omrežjih, ki približujejo statistiko njenim neodjemalcem in navdušujejo za podatke najširšo javnost. Profili na socialnih omrežjih navdušujejo z duhovitimi, aktualnimi, vselej pa verodostojnimi vsebinami in beležijo izjemno potenco naraščajoče priljubljenosti. Kako vam to uspeva? Koliko vas je? Kdaj ste se odločili, da boste prešli na takšen način predstavljanja statistike navadnim ljudem, državljanom?

Bajželj: Ja, teh pohval se kar ne moreš dovolj naposlušati. Tako da hvala za tole.

Voditeljica: Čestitke.

Bajželj: Ja, za čestitke. Pravzaprav smo pa na družbenih medijih smo že zelo dolgo časa prisotni. Najprej smo bili na Twitterju, se pravi na zdajšnjem X-u, in sicer že tam nekje okrog leta 2008, 2009 mislim, da smo že odprli profile, ampak takrat smo nekako, to je bil prvi korak. Potem ta naš način komunikacije, ki smo ga res spremenili in je zdaj postal naš prepoznavni znak v zadnjih desetih letih, pa mislim, da je bila prelomna točka takrat, ko je bilo evropsko prvenstvo v košarki tukaj v Sloveniji. In takrat je nekako na hodniku med pisarnami, med vrati prišlo do ene take šale na račun tega, kako smo mi premagali Špance. Pač v košarki, seveda. In smo res zelo boječi takrat, a bi poskusili, a bodo to ljudje sprejeli? In smo potem napisali, kakšen je bil izvoz banan iz Slovenije v Španijo in celo nekaj se jih je celo našlo, da smo jih res izvozili v Španijo in zraven smo pa še napisali, da tistih banan, ki smo jih na tekmi podelili Špancem, da jih pa še nismo prešteli. In takrat je bil to res odziv je bil zelo, zelo dober, tako nihče ni pričakoval od ene tako resne inštitucije, da se zna tudi majčkeno pohecati. Tako da smo potem videli, da to bi znal biti en model našega delovanja na družbenih medijih tudi v prihodnje. In potem ves čas lovimo nekako to ravnotežje. Se pravi, da podatke res ohranjamo in jih predstavljamo na objektiven način, zraven pa poskušamo narediti take okoliščine, v katerih so ti podatki še posebej zanimivi, kdaj pa tudi zabavni izpadejo.

Voditeljica: Dobro vedeti, da brainstorming na hodniku deluje.

Bajželj: Deluje zelo dobro.

Voditeljica: Kako pomembno pa je, da statistiko približate na ta način tistim, ki se ne poslužujejo takšnih pomembnejših podatkov, kot je BDP, ampak jih zanimajo bolj preproste zadeve?

Bajželj: Ja, za nas je to zelo pomembno. Na eni strani imamo seveda te uporabnike statistike, ki res potrebujejo podatke za svoje delo in jih tudi dnevno uporabljajo ali pa vsaj tedensko. Obstaja pa seveda velik del prebivalcev, ki pa ne potrebujejo neposredno ves čas statističnih podatkov in njim smo tudi želeli to približati. Se pravi, najprej, da spoznajo to našo količino in raznovrstnost podatkov, da se lahko obrnejo na nas, kadarkoli potrebujejo neko informacijo. Za nas je to seveda tudi pomembno, ker ne samo, da mi na tej strani dajemo podatke prebivalcem Slovenije, ampak jih tudi zbiramo in tukaj je pomembno, da smo prepoznavni, da takrat, ko mi potrkamo na vrata ali zazvoni telefon v gospodinjstvih ali pa tudi v podjetjih, da nas prepoznajo in da vejo, da je sodelovanje v naših raziskovanjih koristno potem za celotno družbo in da šele iz tega mi potem lahko naredimo te podatke, ki so tako široko uporabljeni.

Voditeljica: Nekaj smo jih mi z ekipo pregledali na Instagramu, čeprav ste tudi na X-u začeli. Recimo, imate objavljene podatke o povprečni ceni tradicionalnega slovenskega zajtrka, in sicer kilogram medu stane 9,42 evra. Imate pa tudi tradicionalne mesečne statistike in novembrska navaja, da je v Sloveniji 35 slovenskih naselij z enajstimi prebivalci. Kaj nam povedo ti podatki? 

Bajželj: Ja, pravzaprav ta koncept mesečni je, da vedno pogledamo okrog te številke, kaj vse lahko najdemo. In seveda november, ker je 11. mesec, se vse vrti okoli številke 11. In tako je v Sloveniji 35 naselij s točno 11 prebivalci. Kot zanimivost, eno izmed teh naselij se imenuje Pijana Gora.

Voditeljica: Martin, je to zaradi martinovega, ki je v novembru?

Bajželj: Ta je pa kar celo leto Pijana Gora, ni samo, ni samo za ta praznik. Potem smo pa poiskali še kakšne druge zanimivosti, kot so 11-črkovna imena, to se pravi, to so res ta najdaljša in ti dve imeni, ki sta najpogostejši, sta Maksimilijan. 791 Maksimilijanov živi v Sloveniji in pa 10 Branislavk.

Voditeljica: Jih ne poznam. Morda vidva?

Bajželj: Ne Branislave niti Maksimilijana.

Voditeljica: Nismo še omenili, koliko vas sodeluje pri tem kreativnem procesu.

Bajželj: Zdaj v najožji zasedbi imamo eno upravljalko družbenih omrežij in pa še eno kolegico, ki tudi je praktično ves čas vpeta v ta proces. Potem je pa še malo širša skupina, kjer pregledujemo in oblikujemo te tedenske načrte, kaj bomo objavili na družbenih medijih. In vedno gremo zelo kritično skozi. Se pravi, da bo stvar prav razumljena, da ne gremo predaleč, da je zanimivo in aktualno. To pa je nekako ekipa petih, šestih ljudi.

Voditeljica: Odlično. In kje je ta največji odziv? Tule moja ekipa, ki je gledala vaše objave, se sprašuje, ali so to podatki o sladoledu ali o tem, koliko Slovencev ima hišne ljubljenčke.

Bajželj: Obe ti dve statistiki sta med tistimi pop statistikami. Sicer pa, pravzaprav je odvisno tudi od samega omrežja. Na Facebooku smo že večkrat spoznali, da so najbolj priljubljeni kakšni pogledi v preteklost. Tam imamo malo starejšo publiko in če objavimo kakšne podatke, kako je bilo pred 50 ali 70 leti, to vzbudi v sledilcih malo nostalgije in dobimo zaradi tega cel kup komentarjev, kako se spomnijo svojih šolskih dni in tako naprej. Sicer pa podatki o imenih in priimkih prebivalcev Slovenije, to je neskončen vir navdiha. Vsekakor pa, tako kot je bil ta prvi primer, če nam uspe naše podatke povezati s kakšnimi uspehi naših športnikov, je to kar recept za uspeh.

Voditeljica: Super, še morda to. Uporabniki dajo kakšno pobudo, kaj si želijo, da jim prikažete s podatki, kaj nenavadnega?

Bajželj: Ja, tudi mi se poskusimo res na vse odzvati, tudi na kakšna bolj nenavadna vprašanja. Tudi precenimo, koliko so zares, koliko pričakujejo resen odgovor in koliko mogoče kakšen bolj humoren odgovor. Najbolj mi je v spominu ostalo to, da nas je enkrat ena sledilka spraševala, na koliko zmenkov mora iti oziroma koliko partnerjev mora zamenjati, da bo našla tistega pravega.

Voditeljica: In? To tudi mene zanima.

Bajželj: Mi smo ji zelo statistično odgovorili, da ni pomembna samo velikost vzorca, ampak tudi kakovost vzorca.

Voditeljica: Odličen odgovor. Mislim, da bi lahko bil to citat za vse prihodnje takšne dileme. Kako sploh zbirate podatke? Slišali smo, da jih je veliko. Kako pa jih izbirate? To še vedno kličemo na stacionarne telefone ali kako? To so naše predstave. Kako to poteka?

Oblak Flander: Ja, odmik od tega, da smo hodili v gospodinjstva z vprašalniki in s pisalom, da smo poslovnim subjektom pošiljali papirnate vprašalnike. Tukaj je bil velik napredek narejen, tako da zdaj bom rekla, da večina podatkov, ki jih uporabljamo za pripravo naših statistik, dobimo iz administrativnih zbirk podatkov. Pri našem delu uporabljamo 201 zbirko trenutno, ki jo prejmemo od 81 dajalcev podatkov. To je ogrodje in v Sloveniji so se že v 70. letih usmerili v to administrativno okolje, kjer v bistvu povezujemo te zbirke in omogočajo res kvalitetno statistično produkcijo. Seveda pa mi vseh podatkov v teh zbirkah nimamo, tako da mi še vedno moramo del podatkov tudi zbrati neposredno, tako od poslovnih subjektov. Mi še vedno zbiramo od okrog 64.000 poslovnih subjektov podatke, ampak v 95 odstotkih podatke dobimo po elektronski poti. Potem imamo pa tukaj še osebe in gospodinjstva. Seveda, mi bomo vedno morali ohraniti en del raziskovanj takih, kjer rabimo podatke neposredno od oseb in gospodinjstev. To so take bolj mehke vsebine, ki niso v zbirkah. Tako da tukaj se pa lotevamo na različne načine. Recimo, če govorimo o uporabi informacijsko komunikacijskih tehnologij, je seveda razumljivo, da ko pridemo tudi na teren, se pravi v gospodinjstvo, da povprašamo, če uporablja internet. Ker ni logike, da sprašuješ o uporabi interneta s spletnim vprašalnikom. Se pravi, moraš narediti razmislek, kako je. Ampak to je eno redkih raziskovanj, kjer še gremo na teren. Pa recimo imamo še anketo o življenjskih pogojih, recimo je taka. Potem pa kombiniramo vedno še neko drugo metodo zbiranja, ki je pa bolj elektronska. To je pa recimo spletni vprašalnik. V nekaterih primerih pa še vedno uporabljamo telefon. In ja, še vedno pokličemo na stacionarno številko, ker nam niso dostopni podatki mobilne telefonije. Tako da tukaj je za nas velik izziv, zato vedno bolj prehajamo na spletne vprašalnike. Tako da v splošnem bi rekla, da se je seveda digitalizacija zgodila tudi statističnemu uradu. Predvsem pa ves čas zasledujemo, da bo način tam, kjer morajo še poslovni subjekti, kmetijska gospodarstva, osebe, gospodinjstva sporočati podatke, da jim bo na udoben način, njim prijazen način. Da v bistvu jih nekako seznanimo, zakaj te podatke potrebujemo v državi in skušamo, da so ti vprašalniki v bistvu res čim krajši, da v bistvu tudi podatke, vsaj tisti, ki jih pa imamo v zbirkah, uporabimo, da potem produciramo statistike. Tako da je zelo kompleksen sistem, bi rekla.

Voditeljica: Kaj pa umetna inteligenca? Bo to zaznamovalo vaše delo?

Oblak Flander: Definitivno. Zdaj seveda mi že stopamo, že delamo majhne korake na tem področju, predvsem na tistem področju, kjer v bistvu mi že imamo objavljene podatke. Tam v bistvu seveda ni nobenih zadržkov, kar se tiče statistične zaščite. To, kar mi objavljamo, je vsem javno dostopno in na tem v bistvu že gradimo in tudi zdajle vstopamo v evropski projekt, da bomo razvili zlasti na področju povezovanja statistike in pa prostora, da bodo uporabniki imeli boljšo izkušnjo in bodo lažje prišli do podatkov. Če pa govorimo o uporabi ali integraciji umetne inteligence v procesih do objave, tam smo pa mogoče še malce bolj zadržani, ker gre za neka zaprta okolja in mi vedno skrbimo za to, da so podatki pri nas na varnem. Vemo pa, da pri umetni inteligenci gre za odprtokodne rešitve pogosto in teh si ne upamo prenašati v naš proces, ki je do objave. Tako da tukaj tudi računamo na pomoč ministrstva za digitalno preobrazbo. Upam, da bomo ena pilotna inštitucija, kjer bomo testirali umetno inteligenco tudi v teh procesih, kjer vidimo veliko potenciala. Tudi zato, ker mi želimo biti vitki pri tem, kako delamo in na kakšen način delamo in biti smart na nek način, da bomo lahko različne procese izboljšali, pohitrili in da bo manjša možnost napak. Tako da res vidimo veliko možnost. Nismo pa še tam. Mogoče samo še to povem, da seveda se podobno teh stvari lotevajo tudi drugi evropski statistični uradi v evropskem statističnem sistemu, pri čemer Evropska komisija zagotavlja neka sredstva za skupne rešitve, se pravi skupne kode se razvijajo, ki jih potem lahko lažje integrirajo v svoje procese statistični uradi, se pravi na nacionalni ravni. Tako da to področje je res zdajle. Nas bo oblikovalo in mi smo drzni. Kot veste, smo na družbenih medijih. Ampak moramo pa res paziti na to etiko rabe umetne inteligence, informacijsko varnost. Tako da tukaj smo pa mogoče malo bolj konzervativni.

Voditeljica: Nekaj ste že omenili, s katerimi institucijami sodelujete pri obdelavi podatkov in predstavitvi. So samo vaši zaposleni ali se tudi s kom drugim povezujete?

Oblak Flander: Mogoče uvodoma povem, da slovenska državna statistika ni samo statistični urad, pač pa je tudi Nacionalni inštitut za javno zdravje in pa Banka Slovenije. Se pravi, to so tri inštitucije, ki v bistvu so državna statistika in mi vsi obdelujemo podatke za namene državne statistike in tudi med seboj si lahko izmenjujemo, ker gre za zaprt prostor, bomo rekli, izmenjujemo mikro podatke med seboj. Se pravi producenti smo tako rekoč tri uradne statistike. Podatki, ki jih mi proizvedemo, pravi statistični urad, so naši. Izjemoma poskusimo dobiti še kakšno podporo zunanjo, predvsem ko delamo na razvoju nekih statistik, recimo, se povezujemo z Geodetsko upravo Republike Slovenije in podobno. Ampak na koncu je naša produkcija, zato da bolje obvladujemo procese, da je metodologija jasna, transparentna in to potem tudi zelo jasno in transparentno predstavimo našim uporabnikom, kaj je vse za podatkom, ki je objavljen na naši spletni strani ali v podatkovni bazi.

Voditeljica: Vam je pa v vsem tem času uspelo ohraniti strokovnost.

Oblak Flander: Absolutno. To je naša osnova, strokovnost. Seveda so izzivi na tem področju, ker se digitaliziramo in tako naprej. Vemo, kakšna je situacija na področju kadrov trenutno, kakšna je razpoložljivost. Tako da če hočemo mi iti po poti razvoja, seveda imamo večje kadrovske potrebe po teh strokovnjakih, po podatkovnih, analitikih, matematikih. To je predpogoj, da lahko delujemo. Mi seveda vzgajamo tudi, ali bomo rekli priučimo kader za delo na statističnem uradu v državni statistiki. Ta proces ni kratek, ampak je pa zelo na mero temu, da ti naši novi zaposleni v bistvu potem razumejo ustroj našega delovanja in da smo res profesionalni. Mogoče samo še en dodatek glede strokovnosti. Pomembno je pa tudi to, da smo neodvisni, profesionalni in obenem transparentni, kako delujemo. Da v bistvu z našim delom, z našo transparentnostjo v bistvu delamo na tem, da smo zaupanja vredni. In kot veste, pravi pregovor, da je zaupanje plašna ptica. Ko enkrat izgubiš zaupanje, ga zelo težko povrneš nazaj. Tako da to so stvari, ki so medsebojno zelo tesno povezane.

Voditeljica: Omenili ste že pomanjkanje kadrov, ampak delujete pa tudi na področju mladih, in sicer z mladimi statistiki sodelujete v projektu Evropskih statističnih iger. Sodeluje ekipa, ki je sestavljena iz učitelja, mentorja in največ treh dijakov in pred nekaj leti ste celo zmagali na evropski ravni.

Oblak Flander: Ja, zmagali so naši mladi, ki so se prijavili na statistične igre mladih. Tukaj bi predvsem izpostavila to, da je v osmih letih letos že organiziramo osmič evropske statistične igre mladih v Sloveniji, da smo v bistvu skozi ta proces mi, se pravi, ko se mladi prijavijo, ko se ekipa prijavi, jih mi tudi statistično opismenimo. Oni gredo skupaj v sodelovanju s statističnim društvom. V bistvu mlade vodimo čez nek proces, da razumejo statistike, kako analizirati, kako predstaviti podatke. In potem pač oni imajo predstavitev ali pa če gredo v izbor, potem naprej na evropsko raven tudi video. In mi smo že v teh osmih letih v bistvu v ta sistem statističnega opismenjevanja vključili 8000 mladih, kar ni nezanemarljivo. In tudi v bistvu interes je vedno večji. Na primer, če smo imeli 400 mladih v prvem letu, ki so se prijavili skupaj z mentorji na statistične igre mladih, imamo letos 1400 prijavljenih. In mi smo na to zelo ponosni. Predvsem pa gradimo med mladimi neko zanimanje za statistike in nadejamo se, da bo mogoče kdo izmed njih se odločil tudi postati državni statistik, če temu tako lahko rečemo.

Voditeljica: Če spremlja družbena omrežja, na katerih so mladi vse več. Zagotovo mlade zanima statistika. Kaj opažate na teh vaših kanalih?

Oblak Flander: Ja, že preko družbenih omrežij dobimo kar veliko mladih, sicer se nam izmikajo. Vedno gredo na kakšno drugo platformo, tako da jim malo sledimo. Ampak generalno pa je spet stvar tega, kako jim predstaviš statistiko. In tukaj zelo potem ločujemo. Se pravi, če za osnovnošolce zbiramo bolj kakšne enostavne podatke, pa jim predstavimo statistiko imen, pa kakšno statistiko porabe, na primer, koliko čokolade pojemo in teh zadev, potem v srednji šoli je že kar preskok. Pa imamo evropske statistične igre, zelo veliko pa tudi hodimo na razne fakultete se predstavljat. Kjer je pa spet treba poiskati kakšno statistiko, s katero se oni vsaj malo lahko osebno povežejo. Tisto, kar jih zanima. Se pravi, glede izobraževanja, glede tega, kam se na primer odselijo ali zaradi študija ali zaradi dela. Potem zmeraj je zanimivo to, pri katerih letih se v povprečju odselijo od staršev.

Voditeljica: In? Vemo?

Oblak Flander: Mislim, da je ...

Voditeljica: Pozno.

Oblak Flander: Ja. Blizu 30 let, ampak nismo najslabši tukaj lahko. Mislim, da ni preveč, če povem, da uraden podatek kaže, da na Hrvaškem so tisti, kjer se najstarejši odselijo. Je kar razlika kakšnih 10 let v primerjavi s skandinavskimi državami. Tako da ja, je treba vzbuditi zanimanje pri njih, ampak mislim, da jih potem to vedno bolj zanima in tudi tekom študija potem zares že potrebujejo te podatke za seminarske naloge, za diplomske naloge, magistrske. In takrat se potem obračajo na nas, da jim tudi pomagamo kakšno tako stvar pripraviti.

Voditeljica: Zdaj je vprašanje za oba. Kje vidita prihodnost statistike v Sloveniji? Mogoče Martin najprej.

Bajželj: Statistika, če bo se tako naprej razvijala, kot se je sedaj, mislim, da je prihodnost kar svetla. Opažamo, da se zanimanje za statistiko zares povečuje. Verjetno še en tak dodaten pogon je dalo to covidno obdobje. Takrat smo vsi gledali številke. Vsi smo dnevno spremljali, tako da je res majčkeno dobilo še dodatnega zagona. Tudi mi opažamo, da ves čas se število naših uporabnikov povečuje, kar nas na eni strani zelo veseli, na drugi strani nas malenkost obremenjuje, ker je treba seveda vse te uporabniške potrebe zadovoljiti. Ampak smo zelo zadovoljni s tem, da se naši podatki zares uporabljajo in da delamo nekaj, kar družba dejansko potrebuje.

Voditeljica: Torej izzivi statistike?

Oblak Flander: Ja, jaz mogoče to vidim malo širše, ne samo z uporabniške, ker seveda smo tukaj za uporabnike, ampak državna statistika bo morala biti fleksibilna in odporna v smislu, da bomo zasledovali seveda vedno večje uporabniške potrebe po bolj podrobnih, bolj pravočasnih podatkih. Po podatkih o novih vsebinah, novih temah. Ker se mi kot družba, kot gospodarstvo razvijamo in mi moramo tem potrebam slediti. Da pa bomo temu lahko sledili na nek vitek način, se pravi ob skrbni uporabi sredstev, ki nam jih država namenja za naše delovanje in razbremenjevati poročevalske enote na drugi strani bo pa velik izziv za nas navznoter. Kako se bomo sposobni prilagoditi, da bomo ob manjšem, bomo rekli, proračunu, kadrih, proizvedli več, bolje, da bomo tam, kjer so uporabniki, da jim bomo podatke predstavili na način, da bodo za njih informacije, da se bodo lahko odločali. Tako da izzivov je zelo veliko. Trenutno imamo odlično ekipo, tako da zaupam v njih. Rabimo pa v bistvu ogromno razvojnega dela zdajle postaviti za prihodnost, da bomo odporni tako, kot so v 70. letih smelo razmišljali o registrski usmeritvi, moramo v tem 21. stoletju smelo razmišljati, kako bomo mi kot državna statistika odporen in odličen servis uporabnikom podatkov. 

Voditeljica: Zaključujemo decembrsko, praznično, statistično temu primerno. Ali res največ kupujemo za praznike decembra?

Oblak Flander: Drži.

Voditeljica: Kaj kaže statistika?

Oblak Flander: Statistika kaže, da decembra za nakupe porabimo več denarja v povprečju kot v preostalih mesecih leta, in sicer v letu 2023 smo decembra v povprečju v primerjavi z drugimi meseci v 2023 porabili, se je prihodek podjetij povečal za 15 odstotkov v prodaji na drobno. Tako da ta statistika potrjuje, da smo bolj potrošniško naravnani v decembru.

Voditeljica: Prav je tako, ker vsi pričakujemo darila.

Oblak Flander: Ja.

Voditeljica: Katera statistična številka je pa zaznamovala letošnje leto?

Bajželj: Ja, letos je ta odgovor za nas zelo enostaven. Številka 80. Ker smo letos praznovali 80. obletnico od ustanovitve statističnega urada. In to smo tudi s pridom izkoristili spet za to, da predstavimo naše podatke, da predstavimo naše delo in tudi naše sodelavce. In tukaj smo imeli res uspešno kampanjo. Tudi v sodelovanju z Valom 202 smo posneli serijo podkastov z naslovom Statistični urad je Narodni zaklad. Pa da ne bi kdo mislil, da smo tako samovšečni. To je pravzaprav povzet komentar ene od naših sledilk na družbenih omrežjih.

Voditeljica: Čestitke obema in celi ekipi. Imam še nekaj vprašanj, ker grem pa malo že v prihodnost. Mogoče najprej še za voščila. Ali statistika pokaže, katero voščilo je pri nas najbolj priljubljeno?

Bajželj: Ne, žal ne. Tega res ne spremljamo, ampak po naših izkušnjah, ker tudi s tem poskušamo biti čim bolj čimbolj inovativni, pri nas najbolj delujejo tista voščila, ki jih spet uspemo povezati z našimi podatki na nek način. In za letos že imamo nekako kar izdelano idejo in bomo pogledali oziroma povezali ta podatek, koliko gospodinjstev se ogreva s toplotnimi črpalkami. Mimogrede, ta odstotek je 13. Ker nas je resno zaskrbelo, kako Božiček vstopa v tiste objekte, ki se grejejo na toplotne črpalke, pa niti ne rabijo dimnika.

Voditeljica: Okej, to tudi mene skrbi. Pa že prej smo imeli petek, 13., tako da očitno se naš planet vrti pri 13. Kakšna je statistična verjetnost, da bo leto 2025 odlično?

Bajželj: Zdaj, na statističnem uradu se nekako z napovedmi ne ukvarjamo. Lahko pa rečem, da po pregledu nekaterih podatkov, da imamo kar dobro popotnico. In sicer tukaj bi izpostavil dva podatka. Eden je ta, da po zadnjih podatkih je splošno zadovoljstvo z življenjem v Sloveniji na visoki ravni, če se primerjamo z ostalimi državami članicami Evropske unije, še posebej pa izstopa zadovoljstvo z medosebnimi odnosi, ki smo jih nazadnje ocenili z 8,6 na 10-stopenjski lestvici, kar nas uvršča skupaj z Avstrijo in Malto na prvo mesto med evropskimi državami, tako da mislim, da to tudi razbija ta stereotip o tipično prepirljivih Slovencih in slabih odnosih.

Voditeljica: Ob vsem kaosu in aferah, ki naj bi bile, pa se očitno imamo radi in smo zadovoljni. In to verjetno v tem decembrskem času še posebej izpostavimo. Imate morda kakšno sporočilo zdaj ob koncu leta?

Oblak Flander: Ja, jaz bi mogoče zaželela gledalcem, da imajo nadpovprečno leto 2025. Sicer bi pa povabila vse gledalce, da pokukajo na našo spletno stran, v našo podatkovno bazo, da mogoče pogledajo na družbenih medijih naše objave, da jih mogoče navdušimo za kakšno stvar. Mi organiziramo tudi dneve odprtih vrat, tako da lepo vabljeni tudi, da prestopijo prag tako zelo uradne državne statistike. Ker pravijo, da strah nas je po navadi tistih stvari, ki jih ne poznamo. In mi smo tukaj odprti, da nas gledalci spoznajo in da podatke, ki jih zagotavljamo, uporabijo, ker so tukaj za njih.

Bajželj: Se lahko samo pridružujem temu vabilu.

Voditeljica: Jaz bom pa zaključila, naj bo 2025 nadpovprečno, odlično. Hvala vsem, da ste bili v letu 2024 z nami. Se vidimo spet prihodnje leto. Vesele božične in novoletne praznike. 

[ENGLISH VERSION] 
Gov.si, the Government's Podcast 

The host Petra Bezjak Cirman: Hello to our viewers and listeners. Welcome to the 16th edition of the government's Gov.si podcast, produced by the Office of Communication. I'm Petra Bezjak Cirman, and I invite you to follow our podcasts on all the available platforms. Today, we'll examine the interesting field of statistics, the science that underpins data, graphs, and analysis, while shaping the way we see the world around us. At first sight, the numbers and graphs may seem boring, but statistics is a tool that helps us understand patterns, check facts, and make better decisions. We'll examine how data shapes our everyday lives. We're joined by two extraordinary guests, living proof that statistics is never boring: The Director-General of the Statistical Office (SURS), Apolonija Oblak Flander. 

Oblak Flander: Hello. 

The host: Hello. And the Head of Data Publication and Communication, Martin Bajželj. Hello. 

Bajželj: Hello. 

The host: Before taping our podcast, we decided to use our first names. 

Oblak Flander: We'll try. 

The host: Let's begin with statistics. How many podcasts have you taken part in, Apolonija? 

Oblak Flander: I believe I took part in one podcast, but this is my first videocast. 

The host: Congratulations. Any stage fright? 

Oblak Flander: I'll allow myself to be led, and I hope I'll overcome it.

The host: You surely will. Martin, you're used to speaking in public. We sometimes see you on Good Morning. 

Bajželj: More often there than on podcasts, but I have a bit of podcasting experience; I think I took part in two. 

The host: No stage fright then? 

Bajželj: Just a bit. 

The host: I don't bite. SURS covers many fields. Do you also monitor podcasting statistics in Slovenia? 

Oblak Flander: We don't track the number of podcasts, unfortunately, but we conduct research on the use of ICT by households and individuals. In the first quarter of this year, 23% of Slovenian Internet users listened to or downloaded a podcast. We have these general statistics, but not data in one place about who makes these podcasts. 

The host: Martin, is this a new tool we should be using? 

Bajželj: Definitely. 

The host: That's your recommendation? 

Bajželj: Yes. 

The host: The podcast will first be aired on Friday the 13th. It sounds ominous. I hope it gets uploaded OK. You must have some statistics about Fridays the 13th. 

Bajželj: Our databases do have some data about Fridays the 13th, but not the most relevant data point, whether the day really is unlucky. Still, we can conclude that it's not unlucky for everyone, because Friday, December 13, is when some 5000 residents of Slovenia celebrate their birthday, and they'll have reason to celebrate. But even we statisticians don't know whether this is an unlucky day. 

The host: Happy birthday to those 5000. It's said that statistics helps us find patterns in chaos, check facts, and make better decisions. From sports and healthcare to politics and the economy, statistics plays an important role wherever we deal with data. Apolonija, which field today couldn't function at all without statistics? 

Oblak Flander: The Statistical Office collects data for all fields, and I'd have a hard time picking just one because statistics is intertwined with every sphere. As you mentioned, the state probably wouldn't be able to function. We're a governmental office, and we support the functioning of the state. Another of our roles is to provide data for companies and the population to help them decide about their business and personal decisions on the basis of data. On a personal level, SURS set up a database of names years ago on the basis of the central population database. Those looking for baby names can do a search of our freely available database and look up the most popular names, so not everyone will have the same name in that area. One such field is macroeconomics, which we can't imagine without statistics, or demography, where we need to see what is happening with the population, or tourism, or agriculture. We really cover the whole gamut, and we'd like to see the statistics be used for data-driven decision-making, on the level of the state, companies, individuals, and society as a whole. 

The host: How does it make our work better, as individuals, companies, and society? 

Oblak Flander: I should give an example that will make it easier to understand: tourism statistics. The Statistical Office provides a wide range of data in the field of tourism. If we look at the lowest level, that of business entities active in tourism and the catering industry, we have data enabling them to compare their performance, how many overnight stays they have compared to other lodging providers, what is happening on the local level and in neighboring destinations. On the higher level, the Slovenian Tourist Office can direct tourist flow on the basis of our data when there's high seasonal demand. Finally, the state can make strategic decisions about how to manage this field to ensure sustainability and maximum value, which is then returned to the local environment and to businesses. 

The host: If SURS ceased to function for several months, who would be left stranded? 

Oblak Flander: I suppose we'd soon get calls about wage, inflation, and GDP data. We statisticians sometimes feel that we produce too much data, but when we don't publish something either because of hiccups in the process or because we've selected what to publish, we immediately hear from the users of data that we didn't consider that relevant. Every year, we carefully consider which data we still need to provide, and whether the demand is still there. We try to make rational decisions in this regard, but we need to provide support for many different users. 

The host: You're a governmental office, and the government is one of your users. How do you help it make decisions? 

Oblak Flander: We're working with the government and its ministries mostly by tracking their needs as data users. We constantly track legislative changes and new legislation, what is happening on the European level, not just in terms of statistics legislation, but also what the state will need to provide, so we can ensure data-driven decisions. Our work involves the continuous tracking of those needs; our work is an example of a good practice within the European statistics system. Since the 1980s, we've had statistics councils, where we meet all our users and data providers every 18 months in order to stay relevant and provide quality data to our users. 

The host: Martin, you and your colleagues present this data in such an entertaining and understandable way on social networks. You received an award last year from the Public Relations Society of Slovenia. I'll read their very nice commendation: "SURS's Sector of Communication managed to set up outstanding social media profiles that are bringing statistics closer to non-users and making the public excited about data. Their social media profiles entertain us with humorous, current and always credible content, and are becoming increasingly popular. How do you do that? How many of you are there? When did you decide to start presenting statistics in this way to ordinary citizens? 

Bajželj: One can never get enough of such praise, so, thank you for these ... 

The host: Congratulations. 

Bajželj: We have actually been present on social media for a long time. First on Twitter, which is now X, and we created our profiles around 2008 or 2009. But that was only the first step. We did change our mode of communication and it has become our trademark in the past ten years. I think the turning point was when Slovenia hosted the EuroBasket. A sort of joke developed in the hallways of our offices about how we beat Spain, in basketball, of course. We were afraid of trying it, not knowing whether people would take the joke. We then wrote how many bananas Slovenia exported to Spain, and there actually were some, and then we wrote that the bananas we gave out to Spain at the game, meaning blocks, have not been not counted yet. The response was very, very good. No one expected such a serious institution to be able to do jokes. And we saw that that could be our mode of operation on social media. So, we are constantly doing a balancing act, to present real data in an objective manner, while trying to make those data look particularly interesting or even humorous. It's good to know that hallway brainstorming works. It works very well. 

The host: How important is it to present statistics in this way to those who are not interested in data such as GDP, but in simpler things? 

Bajželj: It's very important to us. On one hand, we have users who really need those data for their work and they use them daily or weekly. But a large portion of the population does not really need statistical data all the time. We wanted to bring this to them. So, to show them the amount and diversity of our data and that they can turn to us when they need some information. It is also important to us because we not only give Slovenians these data, we also collect them. That is why we have to be recognisable, so that when we knock on the door or make calls to households or companies, they recognise us and know that participating in our surveys benefits all of society, and that allows us to create such broadly usable data. Our team checked some of the data you posted on Instagram. 

The host: For instance, you have data here about the average price of a traditional Slovenian breakfast, a kilogramme of honey costs 9,42 EUR. You also have monthly statistics and the ones from November say that there are 35 settlements in Slovenia with 11 residents. What do these data tell us? 

Bajželj: The monthly concept is to see what we can find regarding its number, so in November, everything revolves around the number 11. So, in Slovenia, there are 35 settlements with 11 residents, one of which is called Pijana Gora, "Drunk Hill". 

The host: Is this related to Martin's Day, which is also in November? 

Bajželj: No, it's drunk all year round, not just for that holiday. We also looked up some other tidbits, like 11-letter names, so, the longest ones. Of the two most common names among them there are 791 Maksimiljans in Slovenia, and 10 Branislavkas. 

The host: I don't know any, do you? 

Oblak Flander: No, no one called Branislavka or Maksimiljan. 

The host: How many of you participate in this creative process? 

Bajželj: Our core group consists of one social media manager, and another colleague who is constantly involved in the process. Then there's a broader group in which we make weekly plans on what to post on social media. We are always thorough, making sure that the matter will be understood, that we aren't taking it too far and that it is interesting and current. That is a team of 5 or 6 people. 

The host: Where is the response highest? My team, which looked through your posts, is wondering whether these are data about ice cream or about how many Slovenians keep pets. 

Bajželj: Both of these are among "pop" statistics. But it also depends on the social media platform as well. We found that, on Facebook, retrospectives are most popular. We have an older audience there and if we post data about how things were 50 or 70 years ago, that stirs up nostalgia in our followers and they make a bunch of comments, remembering their youth. Data on the names and surnames of the residents of Slovenia are an endless source of inspiration. But, as in the first case, if we can connect our data to our athletes' achievements, it's a recipe for success. 

The host: Wonderful. Do users ever have requests about what they want you to show with the data? Anything unusual? 

Bajželj: Yes, that too. We try to respond to everything, even unusual questions. We also assess whether they expect a serious or a more humorous answer. For me, the most memorable was a user, asking how many dates she has to go on and how many partners she has to have to find "the one". 

The host: And? I'm interested too! 

Bajželj: We answered very statistically, that sample quality is just as important as sample size. 

The host: Great answer. That could be a quote for any such future dilemmas. You told us there are a lot of data, but how do you collect them? Do you still call landline phones? How does this take place? 

Oblak Flander: We moved away from visiting households with questionnaires and sending business entitites paper questionnaires. We progressed significantly. Most of the data we use to compile our statistics comes from administrative databases. We currently use 201 databases, provided to us by 81 data providers. That is our framework. Slovenia went into this administrative environment in the 1970s, where we connect all of those databases, which enables quality production of statistics. But we do not have all of the data in these databases. We still have to collect part of the data directly, including data from about 64,000 business entities. but in 95 % of cases we get the data electronically. Then we have persons and households. Part of our research will always have to partly include data acquired directly from persons and households. That's soft content that isn't in databases. We go about this in various ways. For instance, regarding the use of information and communication technologies, it stands to reason that, when we visit a household, we ask whether they use the internet. It makes no sense to ask about internet use with an online questionnaire. We need to take that into consideration. That's one of the few cases where we still do fieldwork. Our survey on living conditions is also like that. We always combine that with a more electronic method, such as the online questionnaire. In some cases, we do still use the telephone and yes, we still call landlines, as we do not have access to mobile phone information. It is very challenging, which is why we are increasingly using online questionnaires. So, in general, the Statistical Office was also digitalised. We are mainly striving toward making the method of communicating data comfortable and user-friendly for the business entities, agricultural holdings, persons and households that still need to do so. To make them aware of why we need this data and try to make these questionnaires as short as possible, so that we also use the data, at least the data that we do have in the databases, to then produce statistics. So it's a very complex system. 

The host: What about artificial intelligence? Will that influence your work? 

Oblak Flander: Definitely. We're already taking small steps in this area, especially in the area where we already have published data. There are no reservations as far as statistical protection is concerned. What we publish is publicly available to everyone, and we're already building on that. We're entering into a European project to develop the area of linking statistics and space, so that users will have a better experience and it'll be easier to access the data. However, if we're talking about the integration of AI in the processes leading up to publication, we're perhaps a little more reticent, because these are closed environments, and we always make sure that the data is safe with us. But we know that AI is often about open-source solutions and we dare not bring those into our process leading up to publication. We're counting on the help of the Ministry of Digital Transformation. I hope we'll be one of the pilot institutions where we'll test AI in these processes, because we see a lot of potential. Also because we want to be lean in the way we work, and to be smart in some way, so that we can improve and speed up the various processes, and so that there is less chance of mistakes. So we really see a big opportunity. But we're not there yet. Let me perhaps just add that other statistical offices in the European Statistical System are similarly working on these things, and the European Commission is providing funding for common solutions, common codes are being developed, which can then more easily be integrated into the processes of the statistical offices at a national level. So this area will shape us and we're bold. As you know, we're on social media. But we really have to keep an eye on the ethics of using AI, on information security. So maybe we're a little bit more conservative. 

The host: You've already mentioned some institutions you're working with. Is data processing and presentation solely in the remit of your employees or do you liaise with anyone else? 

Oblak Flander: Maybe I should start by saying that Slovenian statistics consist of the Statistical Office, the National Institute of Public Health and the Bank of Slovenia. These are the three institutions that are the national statistics, and we all process data for the purposes of national statistics, and we can also exchange it with each other. Because it's a closed space, we exchange micro-data with each other. So there are three official statistical offices. The data produced by the Statistical Office is ours. We do try to get some external support on an exceptional basis, when we're working on the development of certain statistics, for example, we liaise with the Geodetic Administration and so on. But at the end of the day, the production is ours, so that we have better control over the processes, so that the methodology is clear, transparent, and then we present very clearly and transparently to our users what is behind the data that's published on our website or in the database. 

The host: Have you managed to maintain your professionalism after all this time? 

Oblak Flander: Absolutely. Professionalism is our basis. Of course, there are challenges, because we're going digital and so on. We know what the human resources situation is at the moment, what the availability is. So if we want to go down the path of development, we have greater need for data analysts and mathematicians. This is a prerequisite for us to be able to operate. We're also training staff to work in the Statistical Office in national statistics. This process is not short, but it's very much to the point that these new employees of ours then understand the structure of our work and that we're really professional. Maybe just one more thing about expertise. It's also important that we're independent, professional and transparent with our work at the same time. We're working on being trustworthy. And as you know, they say trust is like glass. Once broken, it will never be the same again. These things are very closely interlinked. 

The host: You've already mentioned the lack of human resources, but you're also working with young statisticians in the European Statistics Competition project. There's a team consisting of a teacher, a mentor and up to three students. You even won at European level a few years ago. 

Oblak Flander: Yes, our youngsters won. I would like to point out that this is the eighth time we have organised the European Statistics Competition in Slovenia. Through this process of young people signing up we also educate them about statistics. We work in cooperation with the Statistical Society. We take the young people through a process so that they understand statistics, how to analyse, how to present data. Then they have a presentation or, if they qualify onto the European level, also a video. In these eight years, we've already involved 8,000 young people in this statistical literacy system, which is not insignificant. And, in fact, the interest is growing. For example, in the first year, we had 400 young people and their mentors signing up, but this year we have 1,400 people signing up. We're very proud of that. We're building a certain interest in statistics among young people and we hope that maybe some of them will decide to become national statisticians, so to speak. 

The host: If they follow the social networks, which young people increasingly do, certainly. Are young people interested in statistics? 

Bajželj: Yes, we already get a lot of young people through social networks, even though they then always go to some other platform, so we follow them a little bit. But in general, again, it's a matter of how we present the statistics to them. We need to be very discerning. For primary school children, we choose simple data, we present them statistics on names, or statistics on consumption, e.g., how much chocolate we eat. In secondary school, there is quite a leap, we have the European Statistics Competition, and we also go to different colleges a lot, to introduce ourselves. Where, again, it is necessary to find some statistics that they're able to make a personal connection to, that they're interested in. In terms of education, in terms of where people move to, whether for study or for work. Then it's always interesting to see at what age, on average, they move away from their parents. 

The host: Do we know? Late? 

Bajželj: Yes. Close to 30 years of age, but we're not the worst. The official figure shows that Croatians are the oldest to move away from home. There's a difference of about 10 years compared to Scandinavian countries. We need to arouse their interest, but I think that they're then more and more interested in it, and in the course of their studies, they really need this data for their term papers, diplomas, master's theses. And then they turn to us to help them prepare this kind of thing.

The host: A question for both of you. Where do you see the future of statistics in Slovenia? Martin?

Bajželj: If statistics continues to develop as it has so far, I think the future is quite bright. We're seeing the interest in statistics grow. The Covid-19 period probably helped. We were all looking at the figures on a daily basis, there was an extra boost. We're noticing that the number of our users is increasing all the time, which makes us very happy, but also puts a bit of a strain on us, because all these user needs have to be met. But we're very happy that our data is really being used and we're doing something society needs. 

The host: The challenges of statistics? 

Oblak Flander: I maybe see it a bit broader than just from a user point of view. Of course we're here for the users, but national statistics will have to be flexible and resilient. We will follow increasing user needs for more detailed and more timely information. There should be information on new topics, because we are developing as a society and economy and we have to respect the needs. But to do this while respecting the use of funds that we get for our functioning, and to unburden the reporting agents, it will be a big internal challenge. Will we be able to adjust to a smaller budget and personnel and to produce more and better. To be there where users are and to present them the information in a way that they can make a decision. There are a lot of challenges. Currently we have a great team and I believe in them, but we need to focus on development to set the future and to be resilient. In the 1970s they dared to think about a registry orientation, now we should think, how will the national statistics be resilient and a great service to the users. 

The host: Let's finish in a festive mode and of course with statistics. Are we buying the most in December, for the holidays? 

Oblak Flander: It's true. 

The host: What does the statistics say? 

Oblak Flander: The statistics says that we spend more money in December than in the rest of the year. In the year 2023 we spent in December on average in comparison with the other months of the year 2023... Yes, the statistics confirms that we are spending more in December. 

The host: Which statistical number has marked this year? 

Bajželj: This year the answer is very simple for us. The number 80. It was 80 years since the founding of the Statistical Office. We took the advantage of this to present our data, our work and our co-workers. We had a successful campaign, together with Val 202. We have recorded a series of podcasts with a title The Statistical Office is a national treasure. Please, don't think that we are so conceited, this was a comment of one of our followers on social networks. 

The host: I congratulate both of you and the whole team. I have a few more questions, looking already in the future. Maybe about greetings. Does statistic show, which greeting card is the most popular here? 

Bajželj: No, unfortunately not. We don't follow that. But according to our experience, because we try to be innovative, the best wishes are the ones we can link to our information. We have an idea for this year. We shall link the information, how many households have heat pumps. By the way, 13% of households. We got concerned, how Santa would enter the houses with the heat pumps that don't need a chimney. 

The host: I'm concerned about that too. We have mentioned Friday the 13th, so our podcast revolves around 13. What is a statistical probability, that the year 2025 will be great? 

Bajželj: We don't do forecasts at the Statistical Office. But I can say that we have a good starting point, because according to the latest data the general satisfaction with the living in Slovenia is quite high in comparison with the other EU Members. Above all, we are satisfied with people-to-people relations that we have given an 8.6 out of 10 points. Together with Austria and Malta we are in the 1st place among European states. I think this breaks a stereotype about the contentious Slovenians and bad relations. 

The host: And about the chaos and affairs. Obviously we love each other and are satisfied. We can point that out especially in December. Do you have a message for the end of the year? 

Oblak Flander: I would wish the viewers to have an outstanding year 2025. I invite all viewers to have a look at our website in our database and to see our announcements on social media that could inspire them for something. We organize open days as well. They are invited to come to the official national statistics. We are usually afraid of things that we don't know. We are open. The viewer can get to know us and use our data, because they are there for them. 

Bajželj: I can only join this invitation. 

The host: I will conclude that I wish an outstanding and great year 2025. Thank you for being with us in the year 2024. See you next year. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. 

Production: The Government Communication Office