Geodetska uprava: podatki, ki določajo prostor in lastništvo

V tokratni epizodi GOVSI podkasta je naš gost Tomaž Petek, generalni direktor Geodetske uprave Republike Slovenije (GURS). Z voditeljico Petro Prešeren Golob razkrivata, kako GURS upravlja ključne prostorske evidence – od katastra nepremičnin do podatkov o stavbah. Petek pojasni, zakaj so natančni geodetski podatki temelj urejenega prostora in zaupanja v pravni sistem.

Geodetska uprava vodi ključne državne evidence, med njimi kataster nepremičnin, evidence stavb, hišnih številk, državne meje in številne prostorske podatkovne zbirke. Za upravljanje več milijonov podatkovnih zapisov skrbi več kot 450 zaposlenih, ki zagotavljajo zanesljive informacije o prostoru in nepremičninah. GURS skrbi tudi za razvoj sodobnih prostorskih podatkov.

Slovenija je med državami, ki so zgodaj začele sistematično digitalizirati prostorske evidence in odpirati podatke javnosti. »Upal bi si trditi, da smo tukaj kar med pionirji, kar se tiče prehoda iz papirja v digitalni svet«. S tem Slovenija na področju geodetskih podatkov in digitalizacije pogosto sledi najsodobnejšim praksam – in jih tudi soustvarja. Na vprašanje, ali na tem področju držimo korak z najboljšimi v svetu, Petek odgovarja: »Če sem malo neskromen, bi temu kar pritrdil.«

Geodetska uprava je vključena tudi v številne mednarodne organizacije in sodelovanja, slovenski strokovnjaki pa aktivno sodelujejo pri razvoju evropskih standardov na področju geodetskih in prostorskih podatkov.

Urejene evidence pa niso pomembne le za državo, temveč predvsem za lastnike nepremičnin. Petek ob tem opozarja, da lastnina ni samoumevna, temveč zahteva aktivno skrb. »Ključno sporočilo bi bilo, da je za lastnino treba nekaj narediti. Ni samo po sebi umevno, da bo naša lastnina ustrezno zavarovana.«

Vabljeni k poslušanju pogovora na vseh priljubljenih platformah za podkaste ter na YouTube kanalu Vlade Republike Slovenije.

[ENGLISH VERSION]

Surveying and Mapping Authority of the Republic of Slovenia: Data That Defines Space and Ownership

The Surveying and Mapping Authority of the Republic of Slovenia manages several core national registers, including the real estate cadastre, building registers, house number records, state border records, and numerous spatial data databases. More than 450 employees are responsible for managing millions of data records, ensuring reliable information about space and real estate.

GURS is also responsible for the development of modern spatial data systems. Slovenia is among the countries that began systematically digitizing spatial records and opening data to the public at an early stage. “I would even dare to say that we are among the pioneers when it comes to the transition from paper to the digital world.”

As a result, Slovenia often follows the most advanced practices in geodetic data management and digitalisation—and helps shape them as well. When asked whether Slovenia keeps pace with the world’s best in this field, Petek responds: “If I may be a little immodest, I would say yes.” The Surveying and Mapping Authority is also involved in numerous international organisations and collaborations, with Slovenian experts actively contributing to the development of European standards in geodetic and spatial data.

Well-maintained registers are not only important for the state but above all for property owners. Petek emphasizes that ownership is not self-evident and requires active responsibility: “The key message would be that ownership requires action. It is not self-evident that our property will be properly protected.”

You are invited to listen to the conversation on all major podcast platforms and on the YouTube channel of the Government of the Republic of Slovenia.

Transcript

Lepo pozdravljeni v najnovejšem, že 38. GOVSI podkastu, ki ga za vas pripravljamo na Uradu vlade za komuniciranje. Z vami sem Petra Prešeren Golob. Danes se bomo pogovarjali o Geodetski upravi Republike Slovenije. Ustanovi, za katero večina ve, da obstaja, manj pa pozna njen dejanski obseg dela. Čeprav jo največkrat povezujemo z vrednotenjem nepremičnin, pa je njeno delo veliko širše. Ima ključno vlogo pri upravljanju nepremičnin. Jedro njenega delovanja pa je kataster nepremičnin. Poleg tega vodi in vzdržuje številne prostorske zbirke podatkov. Za upravljanje več milijonov podatkov in zapisov skrbi nekaj več kot 450 zaposlenih. Zakaj je Geodetska uprava Slovenije pomembna, katere naloge opravlja in dostop do katerih podatkov nam omogoča, nam bo pojasnil generalni direktor Geodetske uprave gospod Tomaž Petek. Lepo pozdravljeni.

Lep pozdrav.

Na spletni strani lahko preberemo, da je Geodetska uprava samostojen organ v sestavi Ministrstva za naravne vire in prostor in da med drugim opravljate naloge državne geodetske službe, ki zajemajo vzpostavitev, vodenje, vzdrževanje zbirk podatkov na področju osnovnega geodetskega sistema, evidentiranja nepremičnin, množičnega vrednotenja nepremičnin, državne meje, prostorskih enot in hišnih številk, zbirnega katastra gospodarske javne infrastrukture ter topografskega in kartografskega sistema. Sliši se ogromno nalog. Nam lahko poenostavljeno ali pa bolj podrobno pojasnite, kaj vse pravzaprav počnete.

Drži, vse, kar ste našteli, je predmet našega dela. Glavnina državljanov nas pozna seveda po vodenju podatkov o zemljiškem katastru oziroma katastru nepremičnin. To je evidenca, kjer so evidentirane vse zemljiške parcele, več kot 5,8 milijona jih je v Republiki Sloveniji, in pa vse stavbe, več kot milijon 200 000 stavb, od katerih ima približno 500 000, skoraj 600 000 stavb hišno številko. Tudi te podatke vodimo na Geodetski upravi. Poleg tega pa je naše delo povezano še z določanjem referenčnega sistema v državi. To pomeni, nekoč smo temu rekli osnovni geodetski sistem oz. koordinatni sistem, ki daje lokacijo vsem tem podatkom o nepremičninah in drugim podatkom o prostoru. Zato je potreben seveda izračun koordinat za vsako točko, ki jo vodimo. Te koordinate so se nekoč vodile v Gauss-Krügerjevem koordinatnem sistemu. Pred nekaj leti pa smo ga spremenili in zdaj vse podatke vodimo v tako imenovanem evropskem ali ETRS koordinatnem sistemu. Poleg dejanskega stanja prostora, se pravi topografije, topografske baze in pa tudi izdelane državne topografske karte, pa skrbimo tudi za vrednotenje. Vrednotenje je mogoče najmlajša obveznost naše uprave, ampak v javnosti pa žal tudi najbolj prepoznana, večkrat v negativnem kot pozitivnem odzivu javnosti. Ampak po vzoru mnogih sodobnih geodetskih služb tudi v Sloveniji za vsako nepremičnino poleg tehničnih podatkov, se pravi površina in drugi elementi, vodimo tudi njeno vrednost.

Upravljajte z ogromnim številom podatkov, ki so pomembni ne le za posameznike, ampak tudi za državo. Kaj pa bi se zgodilo, če bi se jutri delovanje vaše Geodetske uprave ustavilo? Kje bi mi prebivalci to najbolj občutili? Verjetno bi nastala kakšna zmeda.

Predstavljamo si, da bi ukinitev vseh teh evidenc, ki jih vodimo, najprej bila zaznana, seveda pri sprejemanju stalnega GNSS signala, signala, s katerim delujejo instrumenti, ki omogočajo merjenje z GPS napravami, napravami, ki uporabljajo satelitski signal, in naša mreža 12 stalnih postaj in štirih točk ničtega reda nenehno skrbi za to, da imajo naši uporabniki ta signal. In to bi bil prvi znak, da nekaj ne deluje pravilno, ko ne bi bile meritve možne v naravi. Drugo je seveda delovanje nepremičninskega sistema, torej pravne varnosti nepremičnin. Če ne bi imeli podatkov o stavbah in parcelah, tudi vpisi v zemljiški knjigi, ki varuje vašo lastnino, ali pa druge pravice iz nepremičnin, ne bi mogli delovati. Torej bi nastala neke vrste pravna anarhija na področju varovanja lastninske pravice. Kasneje pa so seveda tu še službe, ki naše podatke uporabljajo, kot recimo naslov je izjemno pomemben, da vas pri nesreči reševalci najdejo na pravem naslovu, da so locirane druge dejavnosti v prostoru s pomočjo naslova in v kolikor ne bi bilo podatka o lokaciji posamezne hišne številke, vse te službe ne bi mogle delovati. In nazadnje, morda pa bi se seveda to poznalo tudi pri pravnih poslih, kjer transakcije ne bi mogle biti primerjane s splošno tržno vrednostjo nepremičnin in bi potem bili zapleti pri odmeri davka na promet nepremičnin. To tako na hitro, kje bi se poznalo, če jutri ugasnemo delovanje Geodetske uprave.

Torej marsikaj, kar jemljemo za samoumevno dandanes, bi enostavno povzročilo veliko težav v vsakdanjem življenju. 

Ja, jaz pogosto primerjam naše delo, ker ena od nalog je tudi skrb za infrastrukturo, za prostorske informacije, kot se zapleteno imenuje, vse tisto, kar je potrebno, da ti podatki pridejo do uporabnika. To pogosto primerjam z vodovodnim sistemom. Mi se ne sprašujemo, ali je zadaj v rezervoarju čista voda. Dobro, mogoče pri Maximarketu, ampak verjamemo v to, da iz pipe priteče voda, ki je pitna, in jo smatramo kot samo po sebi umevno dobrino. Uporabnik vidi končni rezultat, da pa je ta končni rezultat užiten, pa je seveda treba poskrbeti tako za vse, pri vodovodu za napeljave in rezervoarje in črpalke, v našem primeru pa za baze podatkov in pa za vmesnike, ki te podatke, ki so danes vsi v digitalni obliki, omogočajo uporabnikom, da do njih dostopajo, da jih uporabljajo in da jih potem tudi dopolnjujejo, kjer je interakcija potrebna.

Omenili ste že ta pomen, recimo hišnih številk, zato da recimo, če potrebujemo reševalce, nas najdejo. Ali imate morda s hišnimi številkami tudi kakšne zanimive zgodbe ali pa anekdote iz vašega dela?

Ne bi verjeli, koliko ljudi se v naši državi ukvarja z numerologijo, in ravno pri dodelitvi hišne številke običajno pride do zapleta, ko lastnik, ki zgradi novo hišo in pride po zahtevo za dodelitev hišne številke, nasprotuje tisti številki, ki mu je bila dodeljena, dodeljena mu je pa na podlagi določenih pravil, ki veljajo, od recimo, ulica se oštevilči neparno levo, sodo na drugi strani, od mestnega središča proti obrobju rastejo številke in tako naprej in seveda po zaporedju in žal pride tudi številka 13 ali številka 4, ki je ena plus tri, in imamo zaplete oziroma zabavne situacije, ko ljudje tega sklepa ne želijo sprejeti niti ne želijo, da se jim dodeli takšna hišna številka. Podobno se dogaja tudi pri novogradnjah, ko se poruši stara stavba, pri nadomestni gradnji pa se včasih odnese kar tablico s stare stavbe na drugo stran ulice celo, čeprav ni čisto nadomestna gradnja, ali pa celo nekaj deset metrov naprej, kjer pa je že drug ulični sistem, se pravi vhod z druge strani. Ampak seveda ljudje to vzamejo, saj moja hišna številka, moj naslov, me bo že našel pismonoša, recimo.

Pa ni vse tako preprosto, kot se zdi na prvi pogled laikom.

Žal ne.

Vsako leto tudi posnamete približno eno tretjino Slovenije iz zraka. Zbirate podatke radarskega snemanja, tako imenovanega LiDAR-ja, in tako dobite še bolj natančne podatke o površju. Skrbite tudi za register zemljepisnih imen. Aktualnost teh podatkov je pri vašem delu verjetno ključna.

Drži, ta časovna komponenta postaja vse bolj pomembna. Začelo se je s snemanjem Slovenije iz zraka že v 70. letih. Slovenija je bila ena prvih držav, ki ima zvezno pokrito ozemlje z aero posnetki. Res z eno tretjino ozemlja vsako leto, ker gre tako za finančno in tudi časovno kar zahteven postopek. Z današnjo tehnologijo pa, ko nas sateliti dnevno zasipajo z ažurnimi podatki, pa potrebe oziroma zahteve uporabnikov tukaj strmo rastejo in vsi bi si želeli praktično online pogled na ozemlje države. Žal to s sredstvi, ki so na voljo, ni možno, tako da uporabljamo kombinacijo tako pri radarskem snemanju, tako imenovanem LIDAR snemanju ozemlja Slovenije, se izdeluje tudi ortofoto, tako da imamo praktično vsako leto celo državo pokrito z enim od izdelkov, ki prikazuje dejansko stanje topografije. Ciklično snemanje, kot sem rekel, od leta 1970 dalje vsako leto ena tretjina. To radarsko snemanje je novejše, se je pred šestimi leti prvič pokrilo ozemlje države z recimo šestimi točkami na kvadratni meter, če si predstavljamo odboj, koliko točk zazna radar. Danes se snema z več kot 20 točkami. To pomeni ločljivost izdelka, ki ga dobijo uporabniki. Istočasno so to izjemno velike baze podatkov. Seveda je treba imeti tudi zmogljive računalnike tako za hranjenje kot tudi za uporabo. Tehnologija pa se razvija izjemno hitro. Praktično je nemogoče slediti vsem tem možnostim, ki jih daljinsko zaznavanje, kot mi to imenujemo, se pravi ali aero snemanje ali snemanje z droni ali z uporabo satelitskih podatkov, različni spektri snemanja se uporabljajo, in vse to ponujati hitro in ažurno širokemu krogu uporabnikov je kar velik logistični zalogaj in pa seveda tudi predvsem finančno breme za državni proračun.

Kar 80 odstotkov vseh informacij vsebuje tudi podatek o lokaciji, zato je zelo pomembno, da so podatki kakovostno globalno povezljivi. Kaj pravzaprav to pomeni v praksi? Prej ste že omenili tisto, če potrebujemo reševalce, pa točno lokacijo, pa hišno številko. Kaj še?

Mi zelo radi rečemo, da se vse zgodi nekje v prostoru, in skrb za to lokacijo je skrb državne geodetske službe tako v Sloveniji kot tudi v drugih državah. Zadnjih več kot deset let se tudi v okviru Evropske unije spodbuja preko mejno harmonizacijo podatkov, skratka izmenjavo in pa tudi medopravilnost ali pa interoperabilnost, kar v praksi pomeni, da baza podatkov z drugo bazo podatkov komunicira brez človeškega posega. Predpogoj za to pa je, da so zadeve standardizirane na ravni države kot tudi na ravni ostalih evropskih držav. In tukaj je tudi ena od nalog geodetske službe. Geodetska uprava je namreč tako imenovana osrednja točka za infrastrukturo, za prostorske informacije v Sloveniji in mi naše podatke izmenjujemo tudi s sosednjimi državami oziroma omogočamo uporabnikom na ravni cele Evropske unije, da z enakimi pogoji in z enakimi pravili pridejo do istih podatkov v vseh državah. Predvsem so to podatki topografije, infrastrukture, tudi določeni podatki o geografskih imenih in podobno. Skratka, obstaja ena evropska direktiva, imenuje se INSPIRE, ki ima 34 vsebin naštetih, ki morajo biti pod temi pogoji dostopne. In ta izmenjava se vse bolj uporablja oziroma povečuje se njena uporaba in istočasno s tem tudi se izpolnjujejo določeni pogoji poročanja. Države članice poročajo raznim institucijam, od okoljske agencije do Eurostata in podobno. In seveda za to potrebujejo dobro osnovo. Prvi predpogoj je, da so vsi ti lokacijski podatki v istem koordinatnem sistemu. In zato smo prešli v ta evropski koordinatni sistem pred leti. Drugi predpogoj je, da so ti izmenjevalni formati standardizirani, tretji pa, da je podatkovna politika, se pravi pravila, pod kakršnimi se lahko dostopa, izenačena, in celotna Evropa tukaj stremi in ima uzakonjeno pravilo odprtih podatkov. Seveda za razliko od osebnih podatkov, vsi ostali podatki pa so brez nekih omejitev prosto dostopni tako za komercialne kot tudi za javne namene vsem uporabnikom in iz tega razloga je dinamika vse večja, se pravi v vse bolj številnih procesih se ti prostorski podatki ali podatki o lokaciji uporabljajo.

Omenili ste že, Slovenija je ena izmed bolj odprtih držav, kar se tiče dostopa do zbirke podatkov državne uprave. In ti podatki so na voljo tako za javne kot tudi za komercialne namene.

Drži. Upal bi si trditi, da smo tukaj kar med pionirji, kar se tiče prehoda iz papirja v digitalni svet. Večina, praktično vsi podatkovni nizi, podatkovne zbirke, ki so bile nekoč na papirju, so danes tako hranjene kot tudi vzdrževane v računalniku, v digitalni obliki. In zdaj zaradi tega dejstva se seveda lahko uporabijo v nekih procesih. Ti procesi so v današnji dobi seveda digitalni, tako da smo ključen del digitalne preobrazbe družbe tudi geodeti oziroma geodetska služba. In ta trend se dogaja seveda tudi po drugih evropskih državah, morda kje zaradi njihove velikosti malce počasneje, morda tudi zaradi določenih monopolov, ker nekateri podatki so pod institucijami v drugih državah, ki so pod pristojnostjo ministrstva za obrambo in niso takoj zajeli tega pravila odprtih podatkov, čeprav predpis velja za vseh 27 držav članic enako. Razlika je pa seveda pri osebnih podatkih. Tam smo pa mi tudi kar precej striktni in ni možnega dostopa do podatka, ki vsebuje kateregakoli od elementov osebnih podatkov.

O tem, kje se uvrščamo v mednarodnem prostoru, bova spregovorila še malo kasneje. Bi vas pa vprašala še, med vašimi cilji je tudi zagotavljanje učinkovitih storitev in kakovostnih uradnih prostorskih podatkov. To ni pomembno samo za odločevalce, ampak tudi za vsakogar izmed nas. Dostop do katerih storitev oz. podatkov omogočate državljanom in kaj je sedaj že vse dostopno na spletu? Rekli ste, vsi podatki so digitalizirani.

Mi smo že mnogo let nazaj odprli naše portale praktično za vse uporabnike in danes ponujamo te podatke, o katerih sva govorila, prek spletnega portala Prostor. Tam imamo tako javni vpogled, kjer so brez vseh omejitev dostopni ne samo podatki Geodetske uprave, ampak tudi podatki recimo občin. Podatek o namenski rabi, se pravi podatek iz občinskega prostorskega načrta ravno tako izkazujemo na našem portalu kot tudi nekatere druge povezave do drugih vsebin. Potem je tukaj še registriran vpogled. To pomeni, da se z določenim geslom dostopa do tistih podatkov, ki vam jih zakon daje pravico. Predvsem gre tu za osebne podatke in državne institucije, ki potrebujejo ta dostop. Potem pa gre še za osebni vpogled. Osebni vpogled pa pomeni, da z vašim digitalnim potrdilom lahko dostopate do vseh nepremičnin oziroma podatkov, ki so v vaši lasti, in je seveda to dostopno samo lastniku, ne pa zvedavemu sosedu, če tako rečem.

Kdaj pa se državljani najpogosteje obračajo na vas s kakšnimi vprašanji ali težavami?

Povprečen državljan v Republiki Sloveniji se z Geodetsko upravo sreča zgolj nekajkrat v življenju. Običajno, če delimo svojo parcelo na dva dela zaradi kakšne prodaje ali pa pri kakšnem nakupu, ko urejamo meje, morda pri uporabnem dovoljenju stavbe in podobno in dedovanju, seveda. To je na srečo ali pa na žalost bolj poredko in zato mnogi ne poznajo niti vseh teh podatkov, ki jih ponujamo, niti vseh storitev, ki so možne, tako da največkrat nas pa zaradi zgodovine povezujejo državljani z obdavčitvijo in največ navala na naše pisarne, Geodetska uprava deluje na 41 lokacijah v Republiki Sloveniji in največ navala na naše pisarne je v času, ko se kar koli dogaja z modeli vrednotenja, ko se spreminjajo vrednosti, ravno iz razloga, ker želijo ljudje pogledati, kako je bila njihova vrednost ocenjena, tudi če so dobili potrdilo na dom, pa mnogi seveda poskušajo to vrednost spreminjati glede na potrebe. In običajno gre to, da bi si želeli znižati, ne zvišati, tako da. Danes se seveda večina teh kontaktov opravi kar neposredno z geodetskimi podjetji, ker v Sloveniji velja, da tehnični del postopka pri urejanju meje ali delitvi parcele po vpisu stavbe opravi geodetsko podjetje, ki v imenu stranke potem odda tako imenovani elaborat na Geodetsko upravo. Danes to poteka digitalno, tako da niti po podatke iz arhiva niti za oddajo ni treba geodetskim podjetjem prihajati fizično na naše naslove. Iz tega razloga pa tudi mnoga pojasnila dajejo geodetska podjetja neposredno lastnikom, ko naročajo določeno storitev. Upravni del postopka pa se izvaja na Geodetski upravi, kjer izdamo odločbo in se odločitev prenese v evidenco, na katero se ta sprememba nanaša. Tako da mnogo klicev, obiskov je povezanih z vprašanjem svetovanja oziroma preverjanja, če je informacija, ki jo je dobil občan na geodetskem podjetju, res prava in kakšno bi bilo neke vrste drugo mnenje. Tako da to so najpogostejši stiki z lastniki nepremičnin. Mi smo v ta namen odprli tudi klicni center in projektno vložišče, predvsem zaradi časa, ko smo pošiljali obvestila o vrednostih, vendar želimo to prakso, ta komunikacijski kanal ohraniti tudi v bodoče, da bi bili kar najbolj dostopni po različnih poteh zainteresiranim uporabnikom, ki potrebujejo neko storitev na Geodetski upravi.

Seveda, to je verjetno še najbolj pomembno za tiste, ki morda niso tako zelo digitalno pismeni, jim splet ni tako blizu, da imajo tudi možnost telefonskega pogovora.

Drži. Veste, da povprečen lastnik nepremičnine v Sloveniji je nekje okrog 65 let ali malce več, ker imamo pač to zakoreninjeno, da se prenos zgodi šele po smrti, in zato imamo kar nekaj izzivov tudi na področju digitalne pismenosti. Težko takemu lastniku, ki je 80 plus let, rečeš, kar poglejte si na spletu, saj je vse tam. In iz tega razloga naši kolegi, ki delajo na klicnem centru, mnogokrat tudi namesto lastnika pojasnjujejo, kaj je v evidenci vidno. In po drugi strani pa tudi v vse več procesih se ti podatki uporabljajo, v upravnih procesih ali pa v kakšnih drugih. In mnogokrat se z uporabo ugotovijo tudi kakšna neskladja, ker dokler je to na papirju, je en posnetek na enem, ena parcela na drugem papirju. Takrat moja hruška ni na vaši parceli. Ko se to združi, je pa seveda ogenj v strehi, zakaj je to. In takrat je treba vedeti, kako je ta črta prišla na papir. Ker mi smo digitalizirali stanje takratnih evidenc. Ni bilo vse novo izmerjeno. Ni bilo vse v koordinatnem sistemu, nekaj je bilo tudi grafičnih izmer. In ta podatek je kar pomembno pojasniti uporabniku, da je lahko položajno neskladje, ki ga vidimo v evidenci, posledica nekih pretvorb iz zgodovine. Vedeti je treba, da so bile prve meritve, ko je Avstro-Ogrska postavljala zemljiški kataster, delane z zelo primitivno opremo z današnjega zornega kota. To se je papir lepil na mersko mizo z jajčnim beljakom in merile so se vizure in dolžine z mersko verigo. To je danes skoraj nerazumljivo, ampak brez zavedanja, da je ta črta zdaj v uradni evidenci nekako pretvorjena in da obstaja tam pač določen tako imenovani koridor zaupanja oziroma pozicijske točnosti, lahko hitro pride do napačnih interpretacij.

Tako pa verjetno s pojasnilom rešite tudi kakšno hudo kri potem.

Trudimo se, vedno se to ne da. Seveda je v naši naravi tudi ta medsosedski spor kar dosti prisoten, v naravi slovenskega človeka, in tu mi želimo dopovedati, da na koncu bo profitiral iz tega spora zgolj odvetnik, ampak vedno se to ne da. In teh primerov je kar nekaj.

Omenili ste že malo zgodovino. Leta 2024 ste praznovali tudi 80 let geodetske službe v Sloveniji. Kot sva rekla, geodetski sistem je živ organizem, tehnologija se razvija izjemno hitro. To ste že omenili in tukaj ste v koraku s časom, hkrati pa tudi pričakovanja uporabnikov. Nekaj ste že našteli, ampak morda če izpostavite tiste največje dosežke v zadnjih letih. Katere novosti ste uvedli?

Ja, mi smo si za rojstni dan uprave izbrali en odlok, ki je bil leta 1943 pri takratnem štabu partizanskih odredov oziroma takratni vladi, ki se je formirala, se je kartografski odsek formiral v Sloveniji. Res pa je, da geodetska služba na našem ozemlju ima več kot 200-letno zgodovino, ker je takratna cesarska oblast vzpostavljala evidenco katastra zaradi predvsem seveda obdavčitve takrat, pa tudi zato, da so imeli evidenco, koliko obdelovalnih površin je na tem ozemlju, tako da od takrat dalje se zemljiški kataster vzdržuje redno na takšen ali drugačen način. Od druge svetovne vojne dalje se je ta institucija oblikovala in je bila oblikovana kot državna, prej republiška geodetska uprava in od leta 1995 smo centralizirani. Pred tem pa je bilo to v pristojnosti občin in teh okrog 50 občinskih geodetskih služb se je leta 1995 združilo v državno geodetsko službo, Geodetsko upravo Republike Slovenije. V vseh teh časih je geodetska služba poskušala biti v koraku s časom, tako kot ugotavljate, in recimo že v 70. letih je bila Slovenija ena redkih držav, ki imela za celo ozemlje izdelane topografske karte, mi smo jim rekli temeljni topografski načrti, v merilu 1 : 5000. To je bilo izredno podrobno merilo. Večina držav je svoje topografske karte začela pri 25 000 ali celo 50 000. Mi smo imeli srečo, da je v tistih časih bil posluh in je takrat država investirala v to in prostorsko načrtovanje je temeljilo vsa ta leta na teh podlagah merila podrobnosti, kjer je praktično plus minus en meter pomenil že točnost, ki jo zagotavljamo. In od takrat naprej so se ti naši uspehi ali pa dosežki kar vrstili. Recimo v 80. letih je skupaj s Statističnim uradom nastal register prostorskih enot in hišnih številk. Sprva je to na papirju začel voditi Statistični urad Republike Slovenije, potem smo prevzeli na Geodetsko upravo in od takrat dalje so poleg naslovov, o katerih sva že govorila, vse administrativne delitve prostorov. Od, zdaj so aktualni volilni okoliši, potem šolski okoliši, poštni okoliši, tudi druge členitve, upravne enote, občine, se pravi meje teh območij vodimo v registru prostorskih enot in ga sproti vzdržujemo. In na to se navezujejo kar mnogi državni registri in s pridom uporabljajo ta podatek. Tudi to je bilo recimo eno pionirskih del v 80. letih, ko so ti podatki bili v relacijski bazi podatkov že dostopni in označeni z enoličnim identifikatorjem. Kasneje bi izpostavil ravno aero snemanje. Zelo zgodaj se je v Sloveniji že delalo snemanje iz zraka sistematično in pokrivalo celo državo, o čemer sva že govorila. Morda je eden od dosežkov v nadaljevanju, potem v 90. letih že, digitalna preobrazba, se pravi s papirja v računalnik. Do leta 2000 smo imeli večino evidenc digitaliziranih. Kasneje se je uvedlo evidentiranje vseh stavb. Mi smo iz aero posnetkov dobili obode vseh stavb, tudi tistih, ki niso katastrsko vpisane, in od takrat dalje jih tudi vzdržujemo. Se pravi, da vemo, kje v prostoru se nahaja kakšen od teh objektov. Niso to samo stanovanjske stavbe, so tudi vsi drugi objekti, teh milijon in 200 000, kar je tudi bil zelo zgodaj dosežek, ki ga druge primerljive države niso še tako hitro imele, nekatere še danes nimajo katastra vseh stavb. Recimo tudi kataster gospodarske javne infrastrukture, mogoče ga nismo omenili, to so vsi vodi, električni, vodovod, kanalizacija, telekomunikacijske naprave se že vrsto let vodijo v tem zbirnem katastru in tudi tu smo bili, upal bi si trditi, med prvimi državami, ki na sistematičen način za celo državo vodi in vzdržuje ta zbirni kataster gospodarske javne infrastrukture. V nadaljevanju seveda to že omenjeno vrednotenje nepremičnin. Vrednotenje je bilo na osnovi tržne vrednosti tudi neke vrste pionirski korak, ker večina držav vrednoti nepremičnino po kvadratnih metrih. Mi smo takrat s kvadratnega metra prešli na evro in razumevanje, kako se vrednost določi, terja kar nekaj poznavanja modela in tudi tukaj je bilo narejeno ogromno na prepoznavnosti oziroma pojasnjevanju, da pravzaprav lokacija izjemno močno vpliva na vrednost. Poleg tega uporabljamo vse druge podatke, ki so na voljo, od bližine avtobusnih postajališč, avtocestnih priključkov in tako naprej, namenska raba v prostorskem aktu, ampak ključna je lokacija. Te vrednostne cone so nastale na podlagi spremljanja razmer na trgu nepremičnin, kupoprodajnih poslov in najemnih poslov. V zadnjem času pa je to, kar omenjate, ravno izziv uvajanje novih tehnologij. Eksponentno raste uporaba strojnega učenja, umetne inteligence, velikih baz podatkov, interneta stvari in še bi lahko naštevali. Tako da včasih se je sproti že težko naučiti sploh izraze. Danes govorimo o podatkovnih prostorih, govorimo o ekosistemu podatkov in vse to je nujno zasledovati in biti odziven. In upal bi si trditi, da v Sloveniji tukaj nam uspeva nekako loviti korak s temi trendi oziroma morda celo več. Na mnogih področjih smo, tako lepo slovensko, »trendsetterji«.

Prav nič ne zaostajamo za najboljšimi v svetu na tem področju, ampak dejansko narekujemo trende?

Ja, če sem malo neskromen, bi temu kar pritrdil.

Ste tudi člani številnih mednarodnih organizacij. Vi že drugi mandat predsedujete upravnemu odboru Združenja evropskih geodetskih in katastrskih uprav. Pred tem pa ste pet let vodili izvršni odbor skupine strokovnjakov za evropsko regijo, ki se je v okviru OZN-a ukvarjala z upravljanjem prostorskih podatkov. To je veliko priznanje za vas osebno, pa tudi za Geodetsko upravo in verjetno je ravno tudi to posledica tega, da je slovenska geodezija ali pa Geodetska uprava tako dobra. Eno z drugim.

Ja, naše delo smo vedno radi primerjali s kolegi iz tujine. Iz tega razloga je Geodetska uprava včlanjena v Evropsko združenje geodetskih uprav Euro Geographics. Tu gre za geografsko Evropo, ne samo za 26 držav članic Evropske unije. Aktivni smo tudi v skupini strokovnjakov pri Združenih narodih, ki želi na globalni ravni doseči poenoteno upravljanje prostorskih informacij. Tukaj se angažiramo predvsem iz razloga, da dobimo neke vrste potrditev, ali smo na pravi poti, in seveda iz razlogov, ki sem jih prej naštel, so pa tudi tujci prepoznali naše aktivnosti in iz tega razloga mi je bila dana čast, da sem bil tako pri UN GGIM-u, pri tej skupini strokovnjakov pri Združenih narodih, nekaj let predsedujoči izvršnemu odboru, kot tudi sedaj pri Združenju evropskih kartografskih in geodetskih uprav predsedujem upravnemu odboru. Še eno leto je tega mandata, kar seveda terja kar veliko prostega časa v končni fazi, ampak hkrati pa pomeni, kot ste sami dejali, tudi neke vrste potrditev oziroma priznanje našemu delu v Sloveniji.

Zdaj pa morda eno bolj osebno vprašanje. Drugi mandat ste generalni direktor Geodetske uprave, sicer pa ste že leta zaposleni na Geodetski upravi, torej sistem poznate zelo dobro. Kaj je za vas največji izziv pri delu in kaj vam prinaša največje veselje?

Izziv je morda to, da je izjemno dobra ekipa sodelavcev, skoraj 470 sodelavcev je izjemno prizadevnih in tudi vztrajnih pri sledenju našim programom in izpolnjevanju naših strateških ciljev, tistemu, kar si zadamo kot naloge, in seveda je delo z ljudmi vedno po svoje specifično. Ampak ko enkrat človek začuti, da so sodelavci pripravljeni za iste cilje tudi nekaj entuziazma pokazati, se mi zdi, da je to tisto, kar ti daje tudi energijo, da ne obupaš, kljub temu da kakšen dan zmanjka ur. Ampak hkrati je to tudi zadovoljstvo, če ti na koncu leta uspe našteti nekatere dosežke, predvsem pa, da ni nekih izbruhov nezadovoljstva med uporabniki naših storitev, potem bi si upal reči, da je to tudi eno osebno zadovoljstvo pri izpolnjevanju teh zastavljenih ciljev.

In ravno ko ste omenili uporabnike, morda za konec, kaj bi želeli sporočiti državljankam in državljanom, na kaj naj bodo pozorni in zakaj je tako zelo pomembno, da skrbijo za urejenost svoje lastnine? V enem izmed pogovorov, ki sem ga poslušala z vami, ste omenili skandinavski rek. Nekako tako reče. Registriraj se in zavaroval se boš pred državo. Kaj to pomeni?

Ja. Ključno sporočilo bi bilo, da je za lastnino treba nekaj narediti. Skratka, ni samo po sebi umevno, da bo naša lastnina ustrezno zavarovana, če mi kot lastniki nepremičnin ne bomo aktivni, torej, da poskrbimo, da so naše meje ustrezno označene, meje naših parcel, da so stavbe ustrezno evidentirane in da potem ni bojazni, da bi se v kakšnem od postopkov, upravnih procesov ali kakorkoli, drugih življenjskih dogodkov zgodilo kaj nepredvidljivega iz razloga ohranjanja lastništva. Zato jaz vedno poudarjam, da ne smemo tukaj računati, da bo država namesto lastnikov uredila evidence, ampak morajo lastniki igrati aktivno vlogo. To morda ni samo po sebi umevno. Veste, v času bivše države je bilo kar nekaj po uradni dolžnosti izvedenih zadev, ampak zdaj že 30 in več let veljajo predpisi, ko se spremembe izvajajo na zahtevo stranke, torej na zahtevo lastnika. In morda še bolj v zemljiški knjigi kot na Geodetski upravi se te spremembe lahko zgodijo zgolj, če je lastnik aktiven pri tem. Jaz zdaj ne apeliram, naj pridejo jutri v naše pisarne urejat zadeve, ampak ta zavest, da če imaš nepremičnino v lasti, da to tudi nekaj stane oziroma da to tudi prinaša neka bremena na koncu koncev, ampak zato, da lahko mirno spimo, pa je treba poskrbeti, da so te nepremičnine ustrezno evidentirane. Na to se nanaša tudi tisti skandinavski rek, ko pravijo, saj s tem koristiš sebi, ne državi. Zaščiti se pred neustreznimi procesi, ki se lahko zgodijo, če je v evidenci evidentirano stanje, ki ne odraža dejanskega stanja v naravi. Seveda je to večkrat povezano tudi z dovoljenji, z legalnostjo in tako naprej, ampak tukaj se začne odgovornost lastnikov nepremičnin.

Torej vi vodite, skrbite, vzdržujete vse te evidence, na lastnikih nepremičnin pa je, da poskrbijo, da so podatki točni in da so aktualni.

Predvsem pa da izpolnijo tiste obveznosti, ki jim jih zakon nalaga. Saj veste, da v preteklosti vpis oziroma pridobitev uporabnega dovoljenja pri enostanovanjskih hišah ni bila obveza. Bila je zakonska obveza, ni bila pa udejanjena. Isto se je dogajalo tudi z vpisom stavbe po končani gradnji, ker pač nismo dovolj poudarjali tega pomena ali pa dovolj ozaveščali lastnike. In morda se to zdaj z generacijami vseeno spreminja.

Gospod Petek, najlepša hvala za pogovor in vpogled v delovanje Geodetske uprave. Pa veliko uspeha še naprej vam in vašim sodelavcem pri vašem delu.

Hvala vam za povabilo.

Hvala pa tudi vam, poslušalke in poslušalci, gledalke in gledalci, za vašo pozornost. Spremljate nas lahko na YouTube kanalu ali na priljubljenih aplikacijah za podkaste.

[ENGLISH VERSION]

Hello and welcome to the 38th episode of the GovSi Podcast, prepared for you by the Government Communication Office. I'm Petra Prešeren Golob. Today we'll talk about the Surveying and Mapping Authority, an institution whose existence is familiar to most people, but its work is less known. Even though we associate it with property valuations, it does much more than that. It has a key role in managing real estate, but the core of its activity is the real estate cadaster. It also manages and maintains various spatial planning databases. More than 450 employees manage several million data points and records. To explain why the Surveying and Mapping Authority matters, what work it does, and what data is provides, here's its Director-General, Tomaž Petek. Hello.

Hello.

Your website states that the Surveying and Mapping Authority is an independent body within the Ministry of Natural Resources and Spatial Planning and that you act as the national geodetic service. This includes managing survey databases, real estate records, mass property valuations, national borders, land units, and house numbers, the joint cadaster of public infrastructure, as well as topographic and cartographic systems. This sounds like a lot of tasks. Could you explain everything you do?

Our tasks includes everything you mentioned. Most people know us for maintaining the real estate cadaster. It contains records of all lots, of which there are more 5.8 million in Slovenia, as well as more than 1.2 million buildings, of which more than 500,000 or almost 600,000 have house numbers. This is also the type of data we maintain. Our work also includes defining the reference system. We used to call this the basis geodetic or coordinate system. It sets the location of all the real estate and other spatial data. This requires the calculation of coordinates for each of our data points. The coordinates were once maintained in the Gauss-Krüger system. A few years ago, we shifted to the ETRS coordinate system. In additon to real-life topographic data and the national topographic map that is based on it, we're also in charge of valuation. This is perhaps the most recent addition to what we do, but unfortunately, it also has the highest profile, usually in a more negative than positive light. Based on the model of many modern surveying services, including those in Slovenia, we also track the value of each property, in addition to technical values such as land area. You manage a huge range of data that is vital not just for individuals, but also for the state.

What would happen if your office shut down tomorrow? How would the public feel this? There'd probably be confusion.

The elimination of the databases we maintain would first become noticeable with the vanishing of the permanent GNSS signal, which enables the operation of instruments in GPS devices using satellite signals. Our network of 12 permanent stations and four zero-order points constantly ensures that our users have access to this signal. The lack of real-world measurements would be the first indication that something wasn't working properly. Then we have the functioning of the real estate system and the secure legal status of real estate. Without data on buildings and lots and records in the land registry, which protect your property and related rights, also couldn't function. Our property rights would be subject to legal anarchy. Other services also use our data. Addresses are crucial when there's an accident, so first responders can find your location and other services can be located using addresses. Without data on the location of house numbers, none of these services could function. Ultimately, this could become a factor in legal matters, where transactions couldn't be compared to the market value of real estate and we'd have problems with transfer taxes, for instance. That's where we'd see effects if our office were to shut down. Many things we take for granted would cause us problems in our everyday lives. I often compare our work, where one of the tasks is infrastructure for spatial information, as it's awkwardly called, everything that's needed for the data to reach the user. I often compare it to plumbing. We don't ask whether there's clean water in the reservoir. We assume that tap water is potable. We consider it a self-evident resource. In other words, the user sees the final result. But making that result palatable requires taking care of water, reservoirs, and pumps. In our case, we have databases and interfaces, which are now all digital. They enable users to access and use the data, or to add to it when needed.

You mentioned the importance of house numbers, which help first responders to find us. Do you know any anecdotes from your work connected with house numbers?

You wouldn't believe how many people in Slovenia dabble in numerology. When house numbers are assigned, there can be problems when an owner who builds a new home and applies for a house number then rejects the assigned number. It had been assigned based on existing rules. A street may have even numbers on one side and odd ones on the other, numbers increase from urban centers outward, and so on. The numbers are ordered. Unfortunately, we also get numbers such as 13, or four, which is one plus three, so we get problems or entertaining situations, when people don't want to accept the assignment and refuse the number. It's similar when a new building replaces an demolished older structure, and people take the number plate across the street or up the road, where a different numbering system is in effect. People think that their mail carrier will find them anyway.

Things aren't as simple as they seem to us.

Unfortunately not.

Every year, you take aerial photos of about a third of Slovenia. You collect radar-based LiDAR data. That's how you obtain even more precise land surface data. You're also in charge of the toponym registry. It's probably vital that these data are up-to-date.

That's right. The time element is increasingly important. Aerial photography of Slovenia got underway in the 1970s. Slovenia was one of the first countries with comprehensive areal coverage, albeit with one third of the country covered each year because of financial reasons and technical complexity. With present-day technology, when satellites bombard us with the latest data, users are becoming increasingly demanding. Everyone would like to see online imagery of Slovenia's surface. Unfortunately, we don't have the funds for that. We use a combination of methods. During radar-based LiDAR mapping, we also use orthophotos, so we cover practically the entire country each year with one of the products that shows the state of Slovenia's topography. Recurring aerial photography has been conducted since 1970, covering a third of the territory every year. Radar imagery is more recent. It first covered Slovenia's territory six years ago with about six radar-detected points per square meter. These days, our imaging measures more than 20 points. That's the resolution that the users of our products receive. We have huge databases, which is why we need high-performance computers for both storage and processing. Technology is developing incredibly quickly. It's virtually impossible to follow all the opportunities that remote sensing can provide, be it aerial photography, drone-based photography, or the use of satellite data. Various spectra are in use. To provide all that quickly and up-to-date to a wide range of users is logistically demanding. It is also a financial burden on the national budget.

Eighty percent of all information contains location data. That's why it's important that it's globally connectable. What does this mean in practice? You've mentioned the importance of location for first responders. What else is there?

We say that everything happens in some space. Taking care of that location in Slovenia and abroad is the responsibility of the Surveying and Mapping Authority. For more than ten years, the European Union has been encouraging the cross-border harmonization of data. This involves both data exchange and interoperability. In practice, this means that different databases can communicate with each other without human intervention. The precondition for this is standardization on the level of both the state and other EU members. Another task of the Surveying and Mapping Authority is the central point for the infrastructure of spatial data. We also exchange our data with neighboring countries. We enable users throughout the EU to access the same data under the same rules in any country. For the most part, this is data on topography, infrastructure, as well as data on toponyms and the like. There is an EU directive, known as INSPIRE, with 24 categories of content that must always be accessible. The use of this exchange is growing. At the time, we're fulfilling certain reporting criteria. EU member states report data to various institutions, from the Environmental Agency to Eurostat. Naturally, they need a good foundation for that. The first precondition is that all the location data is in the same coordinate system. That's why we adopted the European coordinate system a few years ago. The second precondition is that the exchange formats are standardized. The third precondition is that the data policy, the rules governing access, are the same. All of Europe is aiming for the principle of open data, with the exception of personal data. All other data is available without restrictions. They're freely available to all users for both public and commercial use. That's why the dynamics are ever greater. The spatial and location data is used in more and more processes.

Slovenia is one of the more open countries in terms of access to information from public administration. This data is available for both public and commercial use, right?

That's correct. We're among the pioneers in terms of the transition from paper to digital. Almost all databases that once existed on paper are now kept and maintained in digital form. Because of this, the data can be used in processes that are now all digital. The Surveying and Mapping Authority is therefore a key part of the digital transformation of society. This trend is also taking place in other European countries. It's slower in some because of their size or certain monopolies. In other countries, some of the data may come under the auspices of the Defense Ministry, so the principle of open data wasn't applied at first, even though the rule applies to all 27 member states. The difference is in regard to personal data. We're also strict in that regard, and it's not possible to access any data that contains personal information.

We'll discuss our international ranking later. Your goals include ensuring effective services and high-quality spatial data. This isn't important just for decision-makers, but also every one of us. Access to what kind of services or data do you enable, and what is available online? You say everything has been digitized.

We opened our portals to virtually all users many years ago. We now provide the data we talked about through the Prostor website. We enable both public look-ups, which enable unrestricted access not just from the Surveying and Mapping Authority, but also from municipalities. Land use data, which is obtained from municipal spatial plans, is also available on our website, as are links to other content. We also enable registered views, where passwords are used to access data to which you have the right by law. This primarily applies to personal data and public institutions. Then we have personal access, which means you can use your digital certificate to access your own real estate data. This is available to owners only, not their nosy neighbors.

When do members of the public typically turn to you? What questions or problems do they have?

The average member of the Slovenian public only encounters the Surveying and Mapping Authority several times in their life, when they split their property to sell it, when they set property lines during a purchase, when obtaining an occupancy permit, when inheriting property, and the like. These are rare circumstances. That's why many people are unfamiliar with the data and the services we provide. Because of our history, members of the public tend to associate us with taxation. The Surveying and Mapping Authority has 41 offices throughout Slovenia. We see a rush on those offices when there are changes to valuation models and when property values change because people want to know how their properties were valuated even when they receive statements by mail. Many then try to change that valuation based on their needs. In most cases, they'd like to reduce them. These days, most of these contacts happen directly with surveying companies because the technical part of the defining property lines, splitting properties, or registering buildings is done by a surveying company, which then sends a report to the Surveying and Mapping Authority on behalf of the client. That's now done digitally, so surveying companies don't need to physically come to our addresses, either to obtain data from the archive or to submit the study. For this reason, surveying companies provide many explanations directly to owners when they order a specific service. The administrative part is carried out at the Surveying Authority, where we issue a decision and the decision is transferred to the register to which this change relates. Many calls and visits are related to the issue of consulting or verification if the information obtained by a citizen at a surveying company is correct and what would be the second opinion. These are the most common contacts with property owners. We've also opened a call center and a kind of project submission office for this purpose, mainly because of the time when we sent out notifications about values. However, we want to maintain this practice and this communication channel in the future as well, so that we can be as accessible as possible in various ways to interested users who need a certain service at the Surveying and Mapping Authority.

This is probably most important for those who may not be so digitally literate. They also have the option of a telephone conversation.

Yes, the average property owner in Slovenia is around 65 years old or a little older, because we have this ingrained belief that transfer only happens after death, and that's why we face quite a few challenges in the area of so-called digital literacy. It's difficult to tell an owner who is 80+ years old to look it up online, because everything's there. For this reason, our colleagues who work at the call center often explain what's visible in the records on behalf of the owner. On the other hand, this data is also used in administrative and other processes. And often, the use of this data reveals certain discrepancies. As long as it's on paper, the aerial photograph and the plot are on different pieces of paper, and I can claim my tree is not on your plot. When this is combined, there is, of course, a problem. And then we need to know how this line got on paper. Because we digitized the records, we didn't measure them anew. Not everything was in the coordinate system, some were graphic measurements. It's quite important to explain this information to the user, that the discrepancy we see in the records may be the result of some historical conversions. We need to know that the first measurements, when Austria-Hungary established the land cadaster, were made with very primitive equipment from today's perspective. The paper was placed on a measuring table with egg white, and the sights and lengths were measured with a measuring chain. This is almost incomprehensible today, but without realizing that this line has now been transformed to the official records and that there's a certain so-called corridor of trust or positional accuracy, it's easy to come to the wrong interpretation.

You can probably resolve some disputes with an explanation.

We try, but it's not always possible. This kind of neighborly dispute is quite common in the nature of Slovenian people, and we want to make it clear that in the end, it's the lawyer who will profit from this dispute. But that's not always possible. There are quite a few such cases.

You already mentioned history. In 2024, you celebrated 80 years of surveying services in Slovenia. As we said, the surveying system is a living organism, technology is developing extremely rapidly. You're keeping pace with the times and the expectations of users. You've already listed some of them, but perhaps you could highlight the greatest achievements in recent years. What innovations have you introduced?

For the Surveying and Mapping Authority anniversary, we chose a decree from 1943. The Partisan headquarters or the then government formed the cartographic section in Slovenia. But the surveying service in our territory has more than 200 years of history, as the imperial authorities established a cadastral register. Primarily because of taxation, but also so that they could keep track of how much arable land there was, so from then on, the land registry has been maintained regularly in one way or another. Since World War II, this institution has been formed as the Surveying and Mapping Authority, and since 1995, we've been centralized. Before, it was the responsibility of the municipalities. In 1995, these fifty or so municipal surveying services were merged into the Surveying and Mapping Authority. The surveying service has tried to keep up with the times, as you said, and already in the 1970s, Slovenia was one of the few countries that had topographic maps covering its entire territory. Basic topographic plans on a scale of 1:5,000. This was an extremely detailed scale. Most countries started their topographic maps at 1:25,000 or even 1:50,000. We were fortunate that there was a willingness to listen at the time and that the state invested in this, and spatial planning has been based on these foundations all these years. The detailed scale, where there was a guaranteed accuracy of plus or minus one meter. And from then on, our successes, or achievements, if you will, just kept coming. In the 1980s, for example, a register of spatial units and house numbers was created in collaboration with the Statistical Office. Initially, this was kept on paper by the Statistical Office, then the Surveying Authority took over, and since then, in addition to the addresses we've already mentioned, it has included all administrative divisions of space. From the electoral districts, school districts, postal districts, to the administrative units, municipalities, i.e., the boundaries of these areas, are kept in the register of spatial units and maintained on an ongoing basis. Many state registers are linked to this and make good use of this information. This was one of the pioneering works in the 1980s, when this data was already available in a relational database and marked with a unique identifier. I would highlight the aerial photography. It was being carried out in Slovenia very early on, systematically and covering the entire country, as we've already discussed. Perhaps one of the achievements that followed in the 1990s was digital transformation from paper to computer. By 2000, we had digitized most of our records. Later, the registration of all buildings was introduced. We obtained images of all buildings from the aerial photographs, including those not registered in the cadaster, and we've been maintaining them ever since. We know where each of these buildings is located. Not only residential buildings, but also all other structures, numbering 1.2 million, which was a very early achievement that other comparable countries didn't achieve so quickly. Some still don't have a cadaster of all buildings. Let's also mention the cadaster of public economic infrastructure. All electrical power lines, water pipes, sewers, telecommunications equipment have been recorded in this collective cadaster for many years, and we were among the first countries to systematically maintain the collective cadaster of public economic infrastructure for the entire country. Next came the aforementioned real estate valuation. The valuation based on market value was a kind of pioneering step, because most countries value real estate by square meters. We switched from square meters to euros, and understanding how value is determined requires quite a bit of knowledge of the model, and a lot of work was done for recognition or clarification that in fact the location has an extremely strong influence on value. In addition, all other available data is used, such as proximity to bus stops, motorway junctions, and the intended use in the spatial act, but the location is crucial. The value zones were determined on the basis of monitoring the real estate market, purchase and sale transactions, and rental transactions. Recently, the challenge is precisely introducing new technologies. These are growing exponentially. The use of machine learning, artificial intelligence, large databases, the Internet of Things, and the list goes on. Sometimes it's difficult to keep up with the terminology. Today, we talk about data spaces, the data ecosystem, and we need to keep track of all this and be responsive. I dare say in Slovenia we're managing to keep up with these trends, or perhaps even more, in many areas, Slovenia is a trendsetter.

We're not lagging behind the best in the world in this field, but are actually dictating trends.

If I may be a little immodest, I would agree with that.

You're also a member of numerous international organizations. You're serving your second term as chair of the administrative board of EuroGeographics. Prior to that, you led the executive committee of a group of experts for the European region for five years, which dealt with the management of spatial data within the UN. This is a great recognition for you personally, but also for the Surveying and Mapping Authority. This is probably also a result of the fact that the Slovenian Surveying and Mapping Authority is so good.

We've always liked to compare our work with that of our colleagues abroad. That's why the Surveying and Mapping Authority is a member of the European association EuroGeographichs. It associates a geographical Europe, not just the 26 EU Members. We are also active in the group of experts in the UN, which wants to reach a globally uniform management of spatial data. We are engaged here, because we want a confirmation, if we are doing it right. Before, I've told you the reasons, why foreigners have recognized our activities and I had the honour to be with the group of experts in the UN. I was a chairman of the committee for a few years and at EuroGeographics I am a chairman of the Management Board. I have one more year of this tenure. This takes a lot of my free time, but it also means a sort of confirmation or a validation of our work in Slovenia.

Now, a more personal question. This is your second tenure as a Director-General of the Surveying and Mapping Authority, but you work there for years and you know the system very well. What is your biggest challenge and the biggest joy in this work?

A challenge is maybe that we have a very good team of co-workers, we have almost 470 co-workers. They are very assiduous and also persistent in following our program and executing our strategic goals that we set as a task. Of course, working with people is always specific, but once you feel that the co-workers are ready to show enthusiasm for the same objectives, this gives you the energy that you don't give up, even if some days don't have enough hours. It is also satisfying if you can list some accomplishment at the end of the year. Mainly, if the users of our services don't have the angry outbursts. I dare to say that this is also a personal satisfaction in meeting the set objectives.

As you've mentioned the users, what would you like to communicate to the citizens? What should they be aware of and why it is so important that they organize their property? In one of the conversations you've mentioned a Scandinavian saying: Register and you'll be safe from the state. What does it mean?

The key message is that you have to do something for your property. It shouldn't be taken for granted that our property will be safe, if we as property owners aren't active. We should take care that our property borders are marked that the buildings are properly registered. Then we don't have to fear that in any of the processes or in any life events something unpredictable happens, as far as the maintenance of the ownership is considered. I like to emphasize that we can't rely on the state to regulate the register for the owner. The owners should be active. This is not self-evident, in the times of the ex-state there was quite a few official business. For more than 30 years now, we have the regulations that things happen at the client's request. When the owner requests it. Maybe even more in land register, these changes can happen only, when the owner is very active. I don't mean that everybody should come to regulate everything tomorrow, but you have to be aware, if you own a real estate, it also costs you something, it brings some burden. If we want to sleep peacefully, we have to take care of it and properly register these real estates. This is also a part of the Scandinavian saying that this is for your benefit not for the state. Protect yourself from improper processes that can happen, if the state in the register doesn't reflect the actual situation. It is often connected with the permits and legality, but here the responsibility of the property owners starts.

So, you keep and maintain records, but the property owners should provide the right and relevant data.

Mainly, they should fulfil their legal obligations. In the past, an acquisition of operating permit for single dwellings wasn't necessary. It was a legal obligation, but not applied. The same goes for registration of the building when it's finished. Maybe we didn't emphasize the meaning of this, or raise enough awareness. This might change with the new generations.

Mr. Petek, thank you for this conversation and an insight of the Surveying and Mapping Authority. I wish you and your co-workers a lot of success.

Thank you for the invitation.

Thank you, listeners and viewers. You can follow us on the YouTube channel or on your favourite podcasting apps.