Not Everyone’s Your Client

What happens when you dare to charge what you're truly worth? 

Laura Howey's journey from struggling estate agent to thriving business owner reveals the transformative power of mindset and vision.

Laura co-started Love Property during the 2008 recession with modest goals, earn enough to avoid returning to corporate banking and have flexibility for her young children. For nearly a decade, she operated like countless other independent agents, working long hours, charging industry standard fees and essentially owning her job rather than a business.

Everything changed when Laura confronted a limiting belief many agents share, that her rural Yorkshire market couldn't support premium fees. "Am I limiting my future by the way I'm thinking?" she asked herself. This question sparked a remarkable transformation that allowed her to create a business that now runs without her daily involvement, commands fees she once thought impossible and attracts clients who are genuinely delightful to work with.

The secret? Laura recognised that emotional connection, not transactional services, drives value in real estate. "We are emotionally marketing people's houses to enhance the value and we manage that relationship," she explains. While most agents focus on logical features (floor plans, photography), Laura estimates her approach is 90% emotionally based. She designed a customer experience that addresses clients' deepest fear, catastrophe during their property transaction, rather than simply listing services.

Perhaps most powerfully, Laura embraces complete accountability: "Every problem you have in your business is a leadership problem." This mindset shift transformed how she approached challenges, from staff alignment to client selection. By niching down to serve specific clients rather than trying to be everything to everyone, she created a business that's not only more profitable but more enjoyable.

Ready to transform your own estate agency? Listen now to hear Laura's practical insights on creating vision, building value, and leading your business to new heights.

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This episode is sponsored by Iceberg Digital, the AI Operating System for Estate Agents. They replace outdated CRMs, disconnected marketing tools, and manual prospecting with one intelligent, AI-driven ecosystem, built to increase revenue per employee and future-proof your agency. https://iceberg-digital.co.uk/

Transcript

Meet Laura Howie from Love Property

Speaker 1 0:00

EstateNCX the UK's number one estate agency podcast discussing the future of estate agency entrepreneurship and business. Hosts Mark Burgess and Lord Brady.

Speaker 2 0:12

Welcome to this episode of EstateNCX. Today I'm talking to Laura Howie from Love Property. She's come down from the cold north of England. Would you consider it the north?

Speaker 2 0:23

Yorkshire is definitely yeah, north yorkshire is definitely north. I get told off for calling milton keynes north. So, um, uh. So, on this episode I'm catching up with laura because she's had such a transformational experience in her business over the years that I've known her from one whereby they're struggling for fees, they're struggling for listings, they're just trying to make a living. A one now whereby she doesn't really need to work in the business, she gets paid, she lives the life she wants. She's got people that do the valuing, she's got people that look after the lettings. They've got an incredible experience. They charge more for their work than they ever have done before. So I want to really dig into her. Like, where does all of that come from and how has she managed to figure all of that out? Okay, laura, thanks for coming.

Speaker 2 1:14

I was going to say coming in, coming back. Oh, you've been on the show before, obviously. Yeah, thanks for making the journey all the way down from the middle of nowhere back down to london, defrosting on the way down, um. So to start us off, um, are you all right just to just give us a quick background I don't know how long you've been in a state agency a bit about your company, and then we'll sort of pick it all up from there um, yes, I've been in in this state agency.

Speaker 3 1:40

I'm getting hot on death and tell people how those was. Of course, it's really dating me that it will be 17 years in February so it's been in its 5 so the company my company is Love Property.

Speaker 3 2:00

we now are emotionally marketing people's houses to enhance the value and we manage that. Relationship management is a huge part of what we do. So I'd like to think that we really set ourselves apart from the traditional vision of what estate agency was and stepping into something a little bit more progressive which kind of reflects the emotional investment that people have made in their homes when they, when they come to sell and love it.

Speaker 2 2:32

okay, now there'll be some people that know you and listening thinking like, yeah, and that's amazing, and laura and love probably do that brilliantly. And I guess there'll be some people listening thinking like, oh, what does any of that mean? So let's just I don't know, go back a little bit. You first opened your estate agency with another business partner to start with, and the goal back then, I guess, was what?

Speaker 3 3:05

what? Just to make a bit of money? Yeah, so it was the property recession 2008. I was a independent financial advisor and I had two very, very young children and quite a rocky home life, so I only did a bit of a stable income and, um, I did toy with the fact that I was going to go back into corporate banking was what I was going to do, and I'd had a particularly poor experience when selling my home, then becoming a first-time landlord. Both experiences were particularly terrible, using two different ends of the country and two very different kinds of agents. So I thought, well, actually is there something that I can do? It's different.

Speaker 3 3:45

I met, um, the person that I set up business with. Uh, she was a really good estate agent, very young, very progressive, interested in moving things forward, and I was like, right, she can teach me how to be an estate agent. The sales bit I already know and actually the experience that I had is not what I would ever want anyone else to have. So as long as I'm not doing that, I think we'll be all right. So that's kind of what kicked it off and I thought as long as we've got enough money to to cover a wage. So I didn't have to go back into corporate banking. I could manage my hours and fit in around my kids' tape and on the school run every day. That was literally all that I wanted to do when I started out. That was the goal.

Speaker 2 4:31

And that was? What year was that?

Starting an Agency During Recession

Speaker 3 4:34

2009,. We actually aged from number on Thursday.

Speaker 2 4:36

And then is it fair to say that for the following 10 years you just sort of plugged away and fulfilled that idea of having a salary and that your sort of job was your business and your business was your job?

Speaker 3 4:51

yeah, and I think I think it especially the first maybe two to five years. It's just about is this even a business that's got a future? Is this something that's that can even make any money? Is it something where we set up with quite a rural area in North Yorkshire? So you know what's the potential here. There's a lot of traditional values, traditional thoughts. You know we were doing things a little bit differently, so it's not always accepted by everybody, so it was a little bit of a challenge on that basis. So it was just a matter of can we move forward with this at all really? And actually it was just a matter of can we move forward with this at all really? And actually it was probably two years before we were taking reasonable money out of there, which was not, you know, literally coming at our bills, and it was quite a long time before we were doing that okay, and then um, if we fast forward, we'll go back again.

Speaker 2 5:43

But if we fast forward, we'll go back again but if we fast forward to now, you've got a business. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but just you know, so you fill in the gaps here. You've got if I say anything wrong, you've got a business that's charging fees. You didn't think were possible in their area. You aren't doing the valuations, you aren't working in the business every day, yeah, and it runs how you, pretty much within reason, always dreamed it would yeah so.

Speaker 2 6:15

So now let's go back again. Like how the fuck do you do that? I mean, like anyone that's listening is now thinking to themselves like right, I'm familiar with the first bit, scrapping away, starting a business, not getting paid, the familiar with the middle messy middle, as rob puts it like about. Like, like maybe I could start to get a bit organized, get some staff, get this, and then you have like the roller coaster months where everybody gets paid except you do, and but then you sort of get past that, but you're still ingrained in the business. We're talking about small estate agencies here, one to five branches, even one to ten and mine's one branch.

Speaker 2 6:51

Yeah, it's this morning right and and even when we met which was what about probably a decade ago? Um, if around that sort of time. Anyway, I can remember clearly you saying to me you don't understand. It is not possible to charge any more than you know. Whatever that amount of money was back then.

Speaker 1 7:12

Yeah, in our area um.

Speaker 2 7:15

So what's happened?

Speaker 3 7:19

mindset, totally mindset. That's all it comes down to is. Am I limiting my future by the way I'm thinking? And absolutely I was, because all I've done that only thing that's changed is my vision for the future and the way I think about it. Nothing else has changed. So I've just thought right, well, why can't I do that? Why? Why can't people in my area, people with smaller houses, want to pay a bit more money and have a better service. Why can't I be that person for them? I don't want volume, I don't want all the stock. I don't even look at a pie chart. I don't even know who's listing what. I'm likely, if I'm not interested, as long as my numbers are okay, my valuations are coming in. That's all I'm interested. I can work for everybody. There's not enough time per day for to do what we do for everybody okay.

The Transformational Mindset Shift

Speaker 2 8:13

So now, like, obviously you know, we brought as a massive believer of mindset as well, and I know that you've also, just like you know, done some of one crazy race like the crazy running race, like what sort of rub does. So used to obviously, like you know, done someone one crazy race like the crazy running race, like what Rob does. So I used to obviously, like you know, on the same wavelength where it comes to, like you know, it's mind over matter, right, but let's just keep it. Let's just bring it back down again for a second, because it can't. It's not just mind over matter. Is it like you couldn't have just turned around with what you had back then, the service you were offering, the things you were doing, and just go? You know what? I just changed my mind about it, like you must have. You must have thought I can be better. I just have to, I don't know, do some stuff. I've worked. If did you have to just do? Is your have you got a different company now why it works?

Speaker 3 9:02

no, it's exactly the same and I think I'm offering and everything. I think it's culturally you have to. It's like it's really hard to explain, but you need to get everybody aligned in the mindset of what the goal is. You cannot micromanage every situation, every phone call that comes in, every situation that's going to happen, every thing that doesn't go how you want it to. You cannot micromanage that. But you can sell the dream of the open sea and then everybody will help you come and build the boat.

Speaker 1 9:37

That's the thing that you can do how many people have you got since you started that transition? How many people have you got working with you now that were back when you started that shift over?

Speaker 2 9:49

one one yeah and that's because, like you just see, like you know, we, we like to talk about leadership from the point of view of, like you know, empowering your staff and giving people a nice place to work and all of that sort of things. But I guess there's also the element of when you go to war and you decide this is how it's going to be, you're either coming or you're not coming. There's got to be an element of that right.

Speaker 3 10:23

Yeah, totally, and I think it is really difficult with people. I hear business owners all the time and it's a big frustration in my mind. They say I can't get the right people, or people won't do this, or people won't do that and other terrible. And this has happened and this is happening, and I just think every problem you have in your business is a leadership problem, every single one. You need to hold the mirror up and look at yourself and think what am I doing to either improve or how have I created this situation? And I think that's the same with everything in life in general, but particularly in your business yeah you know what?

Speaker 3 11:01

what are you doing?

Speaker 2 11:03

yeah, no, I don't know I acted these people?

Speaker 3 11:06

yeah you've employed them, you've brought them into you told them, you've told them. You told them what's going on. So, actually, it's like what it's like. The only thing that's going wrong is what you were telling them. So, and if they you know, I mean it's like, it's like the situation, isn't it? You need to have a vision for the future, and if everybody's not on board with that vision for the future, they need to get off the bus, yeah, and you need to get some other people she's like.

Speaker 1 11:33

When you look at from the outside perspective and looking at your brand, your brand is different to the brand that you had five, six, seven years ago.

Speaker 2 11:41

So there is has been a shift you can see the quality of it and you're the sole owner of the business. Now, yeah, well, I guess that makes sense.

Speaker 1 11:48

The vision was the dream of what you wanted to achieve there and some of the stuff you've acted on. Yet and I think many agency owners probably don't necessarily have that vision it's just like just get by next month.

Speaker 2 12:02

We'll sell some houses. I was talking to an agency owner just last week who said to me I can see, but obviously, yeah, we're talking about lifestyle. For instance, he said I can see this is the future, I can see that we need this, um. But um, I can't. I can't get my staff on board just yet. We might have to revisit it sort of later in the year. And I was saying to him like just let's take a life cycle out of it for a minute, because obviously I'm pretty biased on that side of things. But you can see, this is the right way for the company to go and some of your staff don't agree, and so you're going to just crash the boat into the rocks. You're one fucking job.

Speaker 2 12:59

You can see where the company's supposed to go you're gonna think that you're supposed to steer it there and take everybody with you, but because they, because they can't be asked to go in that direction, you're just gonna go. Yeah, fuck it, let's all go into the box together. It's mad when you look at it, though yeah, isn't it, it is.

Speaker 3 13:14

But.

Speaker 2 13:15

But it is harder in real life because you know you have got team members that you rely on that you don't necessarily see eye to eye with, and you know that you're going to cause yourself a lot of short-term pain if you, you know, have to replace those people. Or maybe you feel that it's not. It's not what's the word loyalty? Like you know, you've got some loyalty to people that have been there for a certain amount of time, but, either way, they're steering you towards the rocks and you can see that's happening right.

Speaker 3 13:45

Yeah, and I think it's like what's stopping you doing it now, like what is stopping you? Why are these people stopping you doing what needs to be done? It's not a matter of railroading people, but it's actually. If your vision is that clear and that powerful, why would they want you to not achieve it? Why would they not want to achieve it for themselves? Why would they not want to be part of something that's going in a direction, being the best that it can be in your area or in our industry? Or why? What would possibly be the reasons for that? And actually, if they just don't want to work in that industry, absolutely fair enough. It's not going to be for everyone, but ultimately, I think the thing is that lack of clear vision is ultimately the thing that stops people progressing, because if you don't know where you're going, you will never get in there. Absolutely never get in there.

Speaker 2 14:42

Do you think, when you look back now, that that was something then that was missing out of the company for quite a period of time?

Speaker 3 14:48

100%, and I think the problem is as well. People are scared of the vision. They're scared to say I want to be X or I want to do this, because they're like, well, if I don't get there I'm a failure and it's like I don't know. Maybe there's other reasons that people don't want to do that, or don't want to say what they're going to do or try and achieve stuff. I mean, you know, it's like doing anything.

Speaker 2 15:13

Maybe it's that they struggle to identify what the actual vision is.

Speaker 3 15:59

And that may be, I don't know. I can only speak to myself and my own fears about thinking well, that's too big.

Speaker 2 16:05

If I'd have just said to you though, like you know, whatever it was eight, nine years ago, you just need a vision Like you'd have gone like thanks for the help, mark, and just gone back to. You'd have gone like thanks for the help, mark, and just come back to you know, come back, I'm back beyond the wall up north, come back, whatever. Like there's some bases in it. Let's find someone else who can help us actually help us, yeah, so, like it's, it's more than that, isn't it? Like you know, you, I remember like the moment that we were together and you decided you were going to start making stretch goals for yourself and this whole journey started. It's not and that is vision as well but what else? Like someone's sitting there going like I've got a vision.

Speaker 1 16:49

Still not fucking working. I think the problem is I think, from what I see a lot of people is, when you speak to a vision, it's a bit a lot of the time it's copied of. Thank, else I'm going to copy off this agent or copy off this company and it's not core to the actual business. Yeah, I mean, like you're just transitions, so that that that has shifted massively, like you're now the sole owner of the business, the ground, and it's completely different. You've got new teams that work underneath you.

Speaker 3 17:13

So, like I think, people I don't like that that vision has taken to it's just knowing you why, as well like people go, I want to turn over too many more. Yeah, what for what are you going to do with that? Like like it's. It's like fake things.

Speaker 2 17:29

It's not real we want to be the best esthetician in the. Yeah, what is the best? Isn't it long yeah?

Speaker 3 17:34

let's quantify what is the best you want to. Does that mean selling the most? Does that mean selling for the highest figures? Does that mean you employ the most? I don't know what does that mean? It's like something tangible.

Speaker 1 17:45

It's actually moving it's just you know you need and that's what the team then come along with it because there's an alignment to that. Like you've said it before, we always have those conversations and we say like, where do you want to go in your life? You identify. So, as you're growing, iceberg, the team members are growing with you because they see why, when we get to this particular thing, this is what unlocks, not just yeah do some stats, do some data. You've got to know that that's so important.

Speaker 2 18:11

Your line goals Even when we first met. Where do you want to go? What do you want to do in life? If you just said to me, like well, I've got dreams of I don't know owning yachts and being a billionaire, then like I've gone, that's fucking awesome life, you know. I mean, I don't know how I can help. Getting a job here ain't going to help you, but it. I think you've hit a nail on the head there with like the fluffiness of it, because a vision is a bit fluffy in a way. But even if you took it down from there to like mission or a three-year goal or something that's just a bit more tangible than like this strap line, that's supposed to sound nice and just something, where the fuck are you supposed to be in three years? And then you can start moving towards it at speed, because without that everything sounds great. It's nice for refurbishing the office, it's brilliant, but it might be irrelevant if you knew what your three-year goal was. It's nice putting a new software in, but who gives a shit?

Speaker 3 19:14

And if you look at everything, if you have a really focused goal five, whatever it is work backwards from that. So if in 10 years I wanted to have 10 shops, what was nine years, six months what was I doing at nine years? What was I doing to get there? What at eight years? What did I have to do to get there?

Speaker 2 19:34

because I guarantee it is not what you're doing right now I saw a post on social the other day that actually ties in with it quite nice where someone said like if someone followed you around for the week, would they think that you were actually serious about your goals?

Speaker 3 19:48

socially mate, was it done this way?

Speaker 1 19:54

so I've got a question on on the that element to it.

Speaker 1 19:56

So, uh, how do I phrases?

Speaker 1 20:01

So you tend to find a lot of people who try and go down this route saying I want to say remove myself from the business a bit more, uh, I have a bit more empowerment to the teams.

Speaker 1 20:11

There's a trade-off, but also you have to have control of the business. But then there's a trade-off to actually release control of the business, knowing you well enough and the transition you've gone through, like there was times where we've had those conversations and present with you chatting to Mark around, I'm the only person that can do it my way and I struggle to find the members of staff. And obviously truth is obviously one member of staff left, there's a, there's a new team now, but how did you go through that process? Because that's not an easy process, it's not a business process, it's an individual process. To try and release that, to empower other members of staff, like because there's a lot of people that's one of the main dominoes I usually tend to find is like I want to do all this, I've got this vision, but I'm struggling to then try and release this down, so that I'm always going to be the bottleneck of trying to do everything.

Creating a Vision-Aligned Team

Speaker 3 21:03

Also, it's the cork in the process. It's the one who thinks that they can do something better than everybody else. But the reality of it is that none of us are neuroscientists in this industry. We're doing a, doing a job, but I think the reality for me has been getting that vision, the goal of what, what do I want to deliver? What is the experience I want to deliver? Not how do I do it. I mean, yes, I want you to turn up at the house and don't pass on the drive part, but you know, whatever you've got all this macro, obvious stuff. But I'm sorry, if you get my vision and you don't understand that macro stuff, then then we're not going to be able to work together anyway, and actually there is no greater reward, I see, than actually giving someone the freedom to work under parameters with your vision in mind and seeing them do it better than I could and that's unreal, to be honest to to just see people. And then how many more people are then getting that experience of what you're trying to deliver? Because I'm one person and I get tired, I need to go on holiday, I need time off, I need a break from it. I've been doing this a long time.

Speaker 3 22:17

So actually bringing new vital people into the industry, giving them my vision and setting them free to go and like this, is the actual, this is the experience we want people to have. These are a few of the parameters that I want you to work to. But actually, you go and do you go and do you how you want to do it. But I want the client to end up with this kind of experience. This is what I want them to take away from it. I want them to have the absolute best experience they can when selling a house, you know, and I want them to have the best experience having someone there to call on all the time, all through the experience. How you do that, that's up to you. We use this photographer, we, we use this other system. This is how it's going to be presented. So you've given them. They're not just like, oh right, we're going to change everything. That's not what I'm saying but at the same time, how it's done on a macro level.

Speaker 2 23:07

Let them do that in terms of how they, how they talk and how they act or like, because, like I remember, one of the very first things that we ever worked on together was customer journey. See, um, so, um, would you still have a specific customer journey in place? And so, if you've got the cost, so someone can come in.

Speaker 2 23:28

So so someone can come in and they can, you can show them the, the vision, this is what we believe is a company and what we want the west of the world to believe that we're also trying to achieve. So keep that forefront of your mind. Here's our customer journey on how we keep people happy. Now put your now sprinkle your personality on it if you want, but, like you know, no need to go outside of it. I'm not asking you to rewrite anything unless you can see it proper. And let's tell you a bit in.

Speaker 3 23:54

In which case we have a gathering every week where the sales team will go well, this is working, this isn't working. We've had a couple of home sellers ring up and ask this question. So I think we've got a little gap in where we're making a contact there, so we need to kind of give a bit more information. They're coming to me with that, yeah.

Speaker 2 24:14

It's pretty mad. It's quite mad, isn't it like you know? You know, but, yeah, but it is and it isn't like you know.

Speaker 2 24:21

It's, it's basic when you think about it as a business owner yeah and now, like, what I'm seeing is like I'm seeing a business owner and when I met you I was seeing a financial advisor who was, or who owned an estate agency. And that transition is pretty mad because, like it's just, it's like a basic conversation that we're having. I thought, of course you would, of course you would have a vision and a customer journey and this and that, but I can remember us having those conversations whereby it's like that. So I'm trying to think of for our listeners maybe they're just like why am I not able to do that? I'm trying to think of an agent.

Speaker 2 25:00

Now, that's right, they've ran a small independent. They're a bit pissed off, for whatever reason, with their staff and certain members of staff. They feel like they're running around like a lunatic and still working at the weekends, still doing stuff, and they've had their business 10 years and they're thinking like this is not how it was supposed to be paying out. I'm trying to think of some of the main points. I mean, like I do think a lot of it comes down to in any business, not just a state agency, do you charge enough money? How do you get over that? Because, like, there was a point where you didn't charge enough money. Like, how do you get over that? Because, like, there was a point where you didn't charge enough money to do what you do now yeah, and I think I think you just have to again that.

Speaker 3 26:30

To me that totally comes down to mindset, because if you are losing business on fees, so say you've tried to put your fees up and you're you getting pushed back all the time or your fees too high, so we're going to vote to someone else. You were not. You were not representing value to that person, because I guarantee that anyone anywhere will have a ipad pro and they're the paid whatever for that. Well, you could have got something that probably has the same tech in it for 400 quid, but then you're paying 1500 quid because it comes from apple. You see value in that brand. You're not getting better technology, you're paying for a brand. So actually you're paying for the experience and the customer service and that representation. So you need to find the way that your business represents that same value to your customers.

Speaker 3 27:19

They don't care what you're charging, because if they see value and you represent value and that experience is going to be one that they want and not something that's going to be awful for them, they've all paid for it and that's that's where we've changed is that we will speak to our clients and we'll find out what experience do they want. We're not just turning up at their house and giving them a shopping list of we do X, y and Z. I'm like shut up. No one even wants to know whether you're using a giraffe or a floor plan or who gives a toss. They don't even want an estate agent. That's the actual thing. Everyone in every industry really values what they do, which is fantastic, but the reality of it is that the client doesn't want that. They want the other. You know everyone in every industry really values what they do, which is fantastic, but the reality of it is that the client doesn't want that. They want the other house They've got a problem, we're fixing it.

Speaker 2 28:13

Fix it in the best possible way. They'll pay you whatever you want to do it. I love that and I know I keep kind of asking similar questions. Go about. How does someone go about finding that? Because there's so many, there's so much advice for estate agents. I'm like just basic estate agency, do you not mean? An estate agent tells another estate agent how to do estate agency and the other estate agent goes, yeah, okay, and then, like you know, like so often online, I see like um, we all need to stop charging such a ho fees. We all need to do this. We don't all need to do it, you need to do it, yeah, and we can all do whatever the fuck we will do exactly that's how me.

Speaker 2 28:55

What's it yeah so how do you do just like? Where does someone go to like, is it just a case of opening their mind and exploring more? I mean, they're listening to a podcast. If they're listening to this, so they've started.

Speaker 3 29:08

So the beauty of human beings is that you don't actually need to have an experience to feel like. You have an experience so you can think your way through it, so you can sit there and you can think whatever you want to do. And I think the biggest thing that estate agents can do is niche down and figure out who their clients are. You cannot be everything to everybody be. If you want to be a volume agent, fantastic, charge low fees, get as many people through the door as you can, sell a lot of houses, that's fine. If you want to charge higher fees, figure out what you're charging for. What are your, what are your higher fees for? What are you going to deliver to that client and what are they paying you for? What are the problems that you're going to fix? And tell them what you're fixing. Tell them the problem that you're going to fix. Don't just say we're going to charge higher fees because we think we deserve it. Deserve it for what? Why do you?

Speaker 3 30:05

yeah and if anyone's pushing back and asking you why or saying they're not paying it, then you don't deserve it or you're not. You're not representing value for them. So it's find out that the niche and and I was I was exactly the same. When I first started doing agency. I was like I want to work for everybody. I can't make any clients, Anything will do, and you know. But anything will do will not be your client.

Speaker 1 30:30

Because I remember, actually, us having that conversation when we were up there and you was, I think at the time you were going oh, the agent down the road, they're copying us and they're just they're charging cheaper fees and we're never going to achieve that. So they're that for anyone listening out there, it's not like you're in some affluent area. You've set up a brand and it's just can can command the two percent. You actually have done that transition of not only just you. You've actually gone from being that lower fee agent to actually transitioning to a higher fee.

Speaker 3 31:03

Being fixed fee, lower fee, half of the a bit with the.

Speaker 2 31:09

Sorry, just to quickly jump in on that. And have you found through all of those experiments that the fee don't make no fucking difference?

Speaker 3 31:16

I 100% guarantee to anyone and if anyone wants to bring me and have this conversation, have it honestly. I do mentoring for agents together and the amount of times I have this same conversation with people over and over again about just know your value, know your worth and don't don't be afraid to stand up for that the.

Crafting the Customer Experience

Speaker 1 31:39

The bit I I've noticed a shift in you was every time I meet you and you say about your minimum fee, you actually say in monetary terms, yeah, and you stop saying I think one percent, but one percent of what? Like? What does one percent mean? Like you said, if you don't know your numbers, you don't know how much the cost of acquisition to apply and how much it's going to cost. At one percent, it's great. But if you're selling 100 grand houses and it's one grand each time and it's like 1800 quid to sell a house like, you're always going to be on pain point and I think we as an industry talk so much about the percentage but actually not the monetary value comes in and you, every time I've met you recently, like my minimum fears and you give the actual monetary figure rather than the percentage.

Speaker 2 32:23

Yeah, do you? Um, that's an interesting one. I mean, what I'm always a bit uh skeptical of doing on these podcasts is like diving too much into that agent's methods because I don't want it to be like like I said, like I feel like there's too many, too much advice for a state agent to whereby's like this is how you do it. There is no, this is how you do it. Do it however you want.

Speaker 3 32:46

And you're 100%. That is one of the most valuable things that any estate agent can understand is educate your clients into the knowledge that all estate agents are very much not the same, and that is not a conversation that this industry has enough. It's like we are different unless they are the same.

Speaker 2 33:08

Yeah, unless, unless they are, literally. But what I mean is, like you know, because there are certain agents that are not even looking to be different, like I say, they're attending a conference that says to a thousand people in attendance or do this, and you'll be better, and they go right, we will win, and they all go and do that. It's like how am I at that? It's like like they haven't got a business they're. It's like they still work for a corporate in a way it's like you could say every supermarket's the same.

Speaker 3 33:34

So the tiny little spa shop or waitrose or the little food hall in south ridges, that's a little supermarket. Are they all the same? Or cars? They're not all the same, they're all different. So it's like find your stall, find your customers, niche down your business, get your processes right and then start marketing to those people and you will find that the feeds will look after themselves.

Speaker 2 33:59

One of the things that I really love about what you've done there is it feels like, from the outside, you're not basing your fees on being able to get the seller a better outcome. Of course, like you know, they want a good outcome because you know they've got, like you say, they've got financial objectives, they're trying to get this other house. But it feels like you're also pretty confident in the fact of like, well, if we're going to work for you, we want to be paid, regardless of the fucking outcome. Like I mean, I know obviously we only get paid if we sell it, but let's not get caught up on whether I could if I make you an, an extra seven grand, like da-da-da-da-da. I know, like you know, in the past, like you know, you may have had that conversation.

Speaker 3 34:46

I used to charge an A for a period of time.

Speaker 2 34:50

Whatever it might be, but it just feels now. It just feels a bit more like you're confident, going. Look, are you looking for a company that's going to do this work for you? And if you are, then it's me, and we charge this much so, sandra, dissent, the conversation.

Speaker 3 35:08

It's like I I mean even now and I don't know if it's the delivery or whatever, but very rarely do we even get asked if we negotiate on our fees, like clients don't even ask because you say the most people, yeah, and they. I think it's like they always would feel rude if they did that. It's like, if you want to work with us, these are, these are the problems that you're having. This is the solutions that we've got for those. If you like that experience and you'd like to work with us, this is what your investment will be. To do that, yeah, um, if you don't, wonderful, you know, that's absolutely fine. There's plenty of people that you can work with that aren't us. And you know, and maybe you know, this experience isn't right.

Speaker 3 35:52

I had a client recently who wanted, they wanted to do part of the process that we do themselves, and I said I said I love that for you, but it's just not going to work for us. And and you know this is a million pound plus listing and she said but what about the value of our house? And I said well, the problem is my team is going to end up very, very frustrated working with you because they they're going to feel like they're doing half a job because they're not following the process that we've got. And you're going to feel like they're doing half a job because they're not following the process that we've got. And you're going to feel frustrated if we do force our process because you're going to want to do that bit yourself. It's just not going to work. So I said I said, with all due respect, lovely house, but we can't work together.

Speaker 2 36:34

It's so good, I mean, but how, how did you like, how does someone get across to that way of thinking? Because there would have been times where you wanted to get across to that way of thinking. You're not there yet and you go on a valuation and you try and do that and you have a bad experience because, like you know what, 60 or 50% of all the valuations you go on are not going to go ahead. So one of those you happen to go on and you do this whole I know my value and blow one person just basically says, well, I don't give a shit, piss off. And you think, right, no, that's it, we can't do this. Whatever laura said, whatever mark said, whatever rob said, like it doesn't work, not here, let's go back to, like you know and don't get me wrong, we've had those moments.

Speaker 3 37:17

But there's just a time that turns, because you just keep going back to your why all the time. Why are we doing this? What are we representing? You know the why, the why all the time, over and over again, and just keep on that and and actually you'll find it's and I tell you it's got nothing to do with the value of the houses. I had some clients and they had relatively low, like under 250k houses and who would just let me do my thing. They've just like love what we do and they were like look you just here's the keys, your beautiful home, you do what you want. So they let me play about with that and and you know, I've used those as case studies and then I've marketed those and this is what we've done for these people.

Speaker 2 38:03

So that's a good point. Then, how do you feel like the marketing has changed from, if we go back to when you was working the other way, the traditional way, let's call it? How has the marketing changed? Is it like you have to put this sort of stuff in your content? I don't know. Know, how do you try and make sure that, like the right people are coming down the sort of funnel if you want to?

Speaker 3 38:27

it is. It is more difficult um, at this point because I would say that so much business comes right about now. So you, from like people, have had experience and you know that we oh who else are you getting out? We're not getting anyone else out.

Speaker 2 38:45

They must be learning about you. They must still be going online and looking at your yeah, I presume so.

Speaker 3 38:50

I mean, we have a lot of Google reviews, we have a lot of, and when we're sat in somebody's house or we'd been invited to go and have a look at a property, that time that we spend sat with people and we'll have these conversations. And I think, because we say something different and because we're not desperate for the business, we want the business, don't get me wrong. We run a business. We need to profit, we need to make money, but at the same time, we're not desperate for any business. It's got to be the right business and I think that comes across because we're very much. We will still give advice and we always say to people you know, even if we're not the right agent for you and you're struggling later on, pick up the phone.

Speaker 3 39:35

We've worked here for a long time. We know the area, we know the pitfalls of what can happen and what can go, and if you're struggling and you're not quite getting the information that you want, just give us a ring and we stand by that. And people actually do recognize and they do come in and go oh, can you help me with this? This isn't. What do you think? Is that, even if you know? I have people who were selling I was all over the country and they'll go. My agent's doing this, what do I'm like, oh, you know, you could suggest that they tried this or you could. You know, have you looked at doing this? And they're like all right, okay, we'll go back to them with that. And they haven't suggested that. I'm saying no, they're probably just busy. You know they don't work the same as we do, but you know the bankers.

Speaker 3 40:18

Actually, you know what, though, it's like?

Leadership and Accountability Lessons

Speaker 2 40:20

not everybody wants what we do, though no no, but I was just thinking in my head how mad is it right that when you look at one of those right move sort of high chance, probably most companies not all of them, but a lot of the companies will be getting a 30% to 40% conversion rate. Whatever method they're using, they're getting that 30% to 40 percent conversion rate. Whatever method they're using, they're getting that 30 to 40 percent conversion rate. They're just unhappy. What with the customers that they're getting the fees, that they're getting the work that they're doing or not? Everybody is but some and so like. Literally, what you're saying is like why don't you just not work for those people then and still get a 30 or 40 conversion rate working for the people you're doing?

Speaker 3 41:05

I honestly cannot tell you how amazing my clients are as well. They are the most delightful group of people that we work for. They're so nice. They bring in stuff for the team. They're pleasant on the phone. They want to know how. Everyone's holic Because she's niched.

Speaker 2 41:19

Okay, I'm niched into that tub. I want to work with these people. Very similar conversations here.

Speaker 2 41:23

I was talking to someone about a neuron website a couple of weeks ago and he said but what if I do this bit and this bit and this bit and this bit, we could do something on the price? I was like no, because the whole thing's going to end in a fucking catastrophe. He was like. He was like he was like why? I was like because we've specifically designed the whole process and if you do piece a, b and c I, either you're going to end up thinking these are idiots or we're going to end up thinking this guy's an idiot, or probably both. Because it hasn't been designed to work that way, which sort of comes back to the custody journey thing, doesn't? It's like you've mapped it out. You know how to give a certain type of person a phenomenal service, to the point where they are lovely to your team and they really like your company. And anyone who tweaks it the wrong person coming in, the wrong staff member working in there or any part of the process going out kind of ruins that whole thing.

Speaker 3 42:22

Yeah, we had this list in the other day who forgot to send our invoice to the client. So completely down the sale without paying our fees. Third time he's done that. He's quite resentful of the amount of money we charge in comparison to what he charges and I'm like, charge accordingly. You know that's absolutely not my fault.

Speaker 3 42:44

The client was mortified and literally was on the phone in minutes asking for our bank details because she'd had such an amazing experience and because she bought the house from us and we've sold it for her and she.

Speaker 3 43:00

You know there was so many hiccups along the way during the sale process, as there always are, that could have resulted in potentially negative reviews or things like that. But because we had the time to spend with her and work through when we were there to advise her, she was absolutely mortified that our fee wasn't paid on time and we still had it the same day because literally as soon as it hit her bank account it was back out to ours and I just thought, you know, it's just so nice that our clients are so respectful and so grateful of what we're doing and recognize um, you know the amount of care that we take with their, with their asset, with their emotional investment that they spent their whole life it was creating and gathering the money together for, and we respect that so much and they respect what we're doing back, so it's it's just such a lovely environment to be in that's the realization of their vision, right?

Speaker 2 43:55

the clients are just like you. Guys are brilliant. Like I forgot to pay, please can I come back? Can I give you the money?

Speaker 3 44:03

can I? You know, whatever it was, it was yeah.

Speaker 1 44:07

I'm going to bring it back just to that point. Five, ten minutes ago we talked about that transition over, yeah, of going from like old web doing things to new web doing things. So a lot of people I speak to say that they struggle with that. You're talking about unknown man's land of like I'm in the abyss and like how, how you know, and you say, like I start working, I'm gonna go back to the old blaze, right one don't you want to get you? Still, how was there a period where you were literally like, uh, we're trying to charge higher fees, we've cut down the volume, so the income at the moment there's no income because there's no loads and loads of fees coming in. I'm still trying to charge it. Was there ever a period that you were thinking like shit if we continue this, we're going to run out of money.

Speaker 3 44:55

No, never at all.

Speaker 1 44:58

But not mindset wise.

Speaker 1 44:59

But from a business perspective, no and and, but the difference was that I created the process before I changed the fees okay, so you literally bob and, going right with the change of fees, go out there, start charging this with no actual clear direction because I think that's a massive mistake yeah because I think actually you're overvaluing what you do and I think, if you genuinely you're not adding value and don't charge money and from the process side to it, when, if someone's thinking right, okay, I've actually listened to this and actually laura's making sense, it's first time actually, I've probably heard that when you created that um process of going forward, how much do you think of it? It's like logic and how much do you think of it's emotional in how you're going to help that individual because most people go right, like you said. Floor plan floor plan professional photography.

Speaker 1 45:46

We do mataport that. We do mataport because that's better than giraffe and they're going to show them all that. And then someone's going to still come over here, yeah, yeah, like proven list this, like what, when you're in for that process, like how much of it is, would you say it's more emotionally geared up to the logic all emotionally geared up.

Speaker 3 46:02

I'd say 90 10 um, just to be honest. I think, yeah, people like our photos. We've got a really good photographer. Um, you know, we do other stuff, we have our process and whatever. But ultimately people just want to be supported and they want to trust. They don't want to be their canoes shoulders. How many times if you pay for something and then you don't mean I don't think they're doing a good job with that? Actually I really trust that they're. Are they saying the right things that they you know? And then you're like thinking, well, what am I paying for? And now I've for an hour which I haven't. Then actually I could have done it myself. If your clients at any moment are having that that chain of thought, you definitely not got your process right.

Speaker 1 46:44

So you need to get your process to where it's the process you want your mum to have, it's the process you want your best mate to have sure it's really interesting because actually a lot of some people I speak to they say, oh, I've said send that, that email to the database if I've got. I need to on my client's side, just in case what happens if they read it. I was like you've got a great problem if it's like you know our process on how we sell our houses, because if they're reading there and they call up, they're not happy. You haven't done it.

Speaker 3 47:10

They're telling them. You're going to contact them on this day. We're going to send you whatever, but you're going to be part of this group. You're going to be spoken to every week. I categorically tell my clients when we list our house we'll be speaking to you every week.

Speaker 1 47:25

There's a map that is part of the experience which I delivered by Robin.

Speaker 2 47:28

Let's not start to feel down. People are trying to avoid catastrophe when they're making their decisions, and the more that you can reassure them that they're going to avoid catastrophe, the more they'll be like. That sounds quite good. A floor plan doesn't in any way make me feel like I'm going to avoid catastrophe.

Speaker 3 47:43

I think I have a floor plan. I can't think of what I could compare that to.

Speaker 2 47:49

It's just a standard thing. It's like saying if you fly with us, there will be a pilot, there will be a seatbelt. Yeah, you will get a back to your seat.

Episode Wrap-Up and Call to Action

Speaker 1 47:59

yeah, you won't be on a stool, your luggage will arrive and let the other in I've got, so I've got another question before we probably wrap up um, what would you say you've learned as a in a leadership position? What? What have you learned about yourself the most in this transition? Like what have you whether that's, I've learned this outside. Internally, I've listened to this. Like what would you say?

Speaker 3 48:26

it's probably changed I am I am accountable in every single situation that I have come across in my life. That is what I've learned and I have input in that create bad. Whenever I'm accountable and within my business, every single problem is a leadership problem yeah, so true, like that.

Speaker 2 48:53

That's so good, that's so good. Um right, any other questions? Oh god, I could go on forever. We'll have to do another podcast soon. But, um yeah, thanks so much for coming in, thanks for listening to this estate agency x podcast. Can you make sure that you're actually subscribed to this podcast channel if you liked the content? It helps us massively to get better guests, and it just helps us generally. So you might think you're subscribed, but just have a double check whatever your podcast platform of preference is that you're actually subscribed and then that way we can continue to grow the channel and get better and better guests for you.