Selling With Soul in a Central London Market

What does it take to thrive as an independent estate agency in the heart of London for over 22 years? Rob Hill, founder of Greater London Properties, reveals the surprising journey that transformed a temporary six month venture into a flourishing business with central London offices in Soho and Bloomsbury.

Rob's story begins with an unexpected twist, armed with nothing but a Sainsbury's bag full of keys and a mobile phone, he entered the industry almost accidentally after 9/11 disrupted his original career plans. That temporary solution evolved into a values driven agency competing successfully against London's property giants.

The secret? Rob likens his independent agency to a "speedboat" maneuvering nimbly around corporate "cruise liners" that struggle to change direction quickly. This agility allows his team to adapt rapidly to market shifts, new legislation, and emerging technologies, providing a distinctive advantage when servicing both individual and corporate clients.

Throughout our conversation, Rob reveals how his commitment to authentic customer experience shapes everything from how GLP handles property management to their strict stance against Airbnb rentals. His refreshing perspective on valuing professional services – "Don't be scared of charging your worth" – stands in stark contrast to the race-to-the-bottom pricing prevalent in today's market.

We explore the challenges of building a values aligned team, with Rob sharing candid insights about recruitment, training through shadowing and the courage to part ways quickly when someone isn't the right fit. His approach to technology exemplifies balanced innovation, embracing AI's potential while maintaining that "moving home is a personal journey" requiring human connection.

Whether you're running an independent agency facing corporate giants, considering a career in real estate, or simply fascinated by entrepreneurial journeys, Rob's story offers valuable lessons about staying true to your values while building a resilient business that stands the test of time.

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This episode is sponsored by Iceberg Digital, the AI Operating System for Estate Agents. They replace outdated CRMs, disconnected marketing tools, and manual prospecting with one intelligent, AI-driven ecosystem, built to increase revenue per employee and future-proof your agency. https://iceberg-digital.co.uk/

Transcript

Meet Rob Hill: GLP's Founding Story

Speaker 1 0:00

Estate NCX, the UK's number one estate NC podcast discussing the future of estate NC entrepreneurship and business. Host Mark Burgess and Rob Brady.

Speaker 2 0:12

Welcome to this episode of Estate NCX.

Speaker 3 0:13

Today, me and Rob are talking to another Rob, Rob Hill. He owns Greater London Properties. He's got two offices right in the heart of central London. He's got over 20 years experience running that company. We talked to him about how he manages the customer experience, how he competes with some of the biggest brands on the planet, how he values the worth of what it is that he's offering people and how he gets staff to work the way he wants so that he doesn't have to do it all himself. Okay, Rob, thanks for coming in. So for anyone who's listening, can you just give us a bit of a background on when you got into estate and see how you got into it and, you know, bring us up to date with your background in estate agency.

Speaker 4 0:53

Yeah well, first we thank you for having me here. It's great to be here with you both. For me, like a lot of people, it was an accidental thing. So I graduated and was working selling timeshares to sort of try and pay back some student debt, and I was having a few conversations with a number of banks. And I came back from a very successful day selling timeshares, uh, to watch on the news, 9-11 unfold. So the conversations with the bank started changing in terms of, oh, we're not sure that we're going to be doing anything. Uh, because of that, you can't understandable. So I was kind of faced with a decision uh, I had done as part of my undergraduate degree uh, a dissertation about how liverpool is to see, which is where I was at Now. That had an impact on jobs and employment opportunities in the area and as part of that, I was offered to do an MBA in urban regeneration. So I felt, bearing in mind, there wasn't much going to be happening in the sector that I wanted to go to, that was a good opportunity, eu sponsored. So it was less than three grand. So I thought, if I can come out of the NBA for less than 3,000, crack on. So did that for a year Came back to London Toying with going into that field.

Speaker 4 2:15

But I needed money, as every sort of fresh out shooting does. So I joined a local agency which, to give you an idea, I arrived at nine o'clock, was handed a Sainsbury's carrier bag with a load of keys in it and a mobile phone. And, bearing in mind I was in Camden, I was told I had a half hour to get to Earl's Court. Nice, so in the bag of keys was a small later Z. So I navigated my way there, met this woman, going through every key in the bag, managed to let the flat and I didn't actually go back to the office for three days because I was just ping-ponging around london with this big bag of keys.

Speaker 4 2:56

Um, and back in those days, you know, I was phoning up saying I've got all this money, like there's people giving you cash, holding deposits. So I went back and you know it wasn't really for me. You know, I think that unfortunately with a lot of agencies, there's good people who start in it and plan to leave. So I was leaving. But I started to enjoy elements of the role and I had a few contacts myself from living in London. So I thought do you know what? I'm going to go out on my own, uh, set up, uh and give it six months and then probably go traveling and just close it all down. So, with the contacts I had off, I went.

Speaker 4 3:36

Then a few clients from the old place started phoning up, going. What happened? Why were you not there? Because it was all rather sudden. And then they started giving me their stuff. So it was only lettings to begin with and six months Because it was all rather sudden. And then they started giving me their stuff. So it was only lettings to begin with, and six months came and it was like summer in London, everything's good. Had a little think, but it wasn't much of a think because I was enjoying it. I was making more money than my peers. I thought, well, if I give it up, that's it, it's done, sort of thing. You can't let the people down and put faith in you. And here we are, 22, 23 years later, with something that never was meant to be and you think I'm going to get some money for traveling quick and come back in a different sector.

Speaker 3 4:13

Mad, and have you been traveling since, have you?

Speaker 4 4:17

had a holiday yet. Yeah, a few holidays, but no, nothing like that, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 4:22

So it's Greater Londonondon properties. Now, right, and you've got two offices, yep um, and one's in soho, yeah, other one is just by yeah, bloom Street, kingsbury.

Speaker 3 4:33

King's Crossway, right, okay, um, so really, you know the heart of london we're talking about here for anyone who's, like you know, not that familiar with london, um, and 22 years later, still going, still thriving, so it's going to be an interesting conversation. I mean, I've got to start off by asking you something that I think is pretty obvious. Like, in that specific location, you know, we've got agents that are listening to this, that are based all over the country, um, and they're probably thinking to themselves like, oh, imagine what we'd get paid if we went and worked in london, but they don't, because they probably think that would be impossible because of all the big corporates and the you know, the big companies. And so how do you deal with the fact that, like you, must be surrounded by some of the biggest brands and names in the world of real estate?

Speaker 4 5:23

yeah, you are. I think you've got to offer a point of difference. Um, and you know that point of difference has evolved over time, like at the beginning, it was just me. So if I was dealing with you, I was doing everything from listing it to viewings, to the referencing to the contract and everything else.

Speaker 4 5:41

Uh, so for a lot of people, if they bought into me as the individual, bought into me as a company, uh, you know, the corporates, I think, will always have a place, but they are analogy I like to give.

Speaker 4 5:55

They're like a, like a luxury cruise line, and they've got every bell and whistle going but they're very slow to change direction. So if you're more like a speedboat and the direction of travel on the market or some new legislation or things that would probably come on to, you know new tech that comes out, you can look at it and go, yeah, I like the look of that, let's give it a run and see how we get to, whereas at a corporate level it's months for them to implement any change. So a lot of the bigger clients that we work with, you know companies with portfolios of thousands of properties they'll use us alongside a corporate because they know you can bring something different to the table, and I think that's really important, and often a consumer wants to deal with a more sort of there's a family-based, friendly environment than a big, shiny corporate office. So that's you know. Whether they are landlords or vendors or applicants, perhaps it's not as intimidating to go into a smaller operation, and once they've had a higher service level they tend to stick with you.

Speaker 3 6:59

Yeah.

Speaker 4 7:00

Nine times out of ten.

Speaker 3 7:01

Yeah, that's good. So really, that's just about knowing who your customer is.

Speaker 1 7:06

Then really I suppose yeah, ultimately okay, when did?

Speaker 1 7:09

when did you feel like you were going from? Uh, I don't know, let's just see how this goes and sets it up, and then you've got that. You said that summer period where you actually started to realize, oh, I've got a bit of money coming in from this, yeah, and then being like, when did you feel like how long was it before you actually got to the point you felt like, actually this is a proper company, I've got a proper business here. It's not just a lifestyle, I'll see it. Let's set out for a bit of travel and then see how it goes. Like was it was it? Was it quite quick in that growth or was it quite a drawn-out period before you actually, you know, started to establish an office or actually be able to sit in a room and compete with the likes of the larger corporate seller?

Speaker 4 7:49

Yeah, I think we had a few sort of landmark days and landmark wins where initially we were just lettings and there's funny stories that you come across.

Competing with London's Big Brands

Speaker 4 8:01

We were doing a lot of work with Soho Estates, who are still a client to this day, and by chance their recently retired CEO was in one of the flats and I carried out a viewing and he was very impressed with how I dealt with the guy and he was only there. I think he probably won't mind me saying I think he'd had a long lunch and gone in for a kip and he sort of said to me oh, here's some people you want to speak to and I'll put in a word for you. And he didn't know me from Adam at that point, but he knew we had been working on this stuff and done a good job. And when you start picking up, you know companies that are on the stock market and you know landed estates. That's kind of when you arise a pretty 18 months in it went from more like I'll do your flat for you or your house to hold on. We've got people coming on a monday.

Speaker 4 8:54

Oh, here's half a dozen instructions for you yeah so you get along with them and it, you know, grew from there, taking on more staff, understanding more about the market, learning from your staff, teaching and training your staff as best you can to make sure that your standards remain the same. And when you identify flaws which to this day we still do, you then improve to make sure you're better next time around.

Speaker 3 9:19

That's interesting, interesting. So, as the company did start to transition over to being, you know not, I'm going to do this and then go traveling. Now it's a proper business and we've got responsibilities and big clients to look after and stuff. When you, like you say, when you look back at the milestone moments that you mentioned, can you think of maybe one or two or even three things whereby, at the time, you couldn't have known these things were going to be the catalyst to moving you on to the next level? Maybe you weren't sure whether you were going to do it or whether you weren't, but looking back now, things changed. When we did X, the company moved on a step. Or when we did Y, the company moved on a step.

Speaker 4 10:06

Yeah, I think in the early days, you know, it was logical that we would go into sales because landlords sell their properties and we were just giving up um.

Speaker 4 10:15

So we went into that and did pretty well. I mean, to be honest, I was fronting that at the time all self-taught um and we just sort of applied the same sort of values in terms of how we'd operate, the service we would offer, uh, and that yielded some pretty good returns, uh, quite quickly, because we knew the properties and everything else. I think when we went heavily into the management field and started winning some big contracts you know that's when you know not necessarily you've arrived, but you've got a serious amount of money coming in each month guaranteed, uh, that you're not, you know, worried if we don't do this many deals. We're struggling a bit here and you know at certain points, obviously the covid time, that was pretty useful income to have coming in, so you had been let only, maybe up until that point had you yeah, we probably were about let only for the first eight or so years, yeah, and then, you know, a lot of the clients were happy with that, yeah, but then you did lose work.

Speaker 4 11:15

We had partnerships with various management houses, but it's hard for two companies to align on everything, so sometimes the service wasn't what it should be, uh, but it's. You know, we've got a great management team, great staff, clients know them. We look after tenants properly in a way that they should be looked after and we charge proper fees for it and, crucially, um, to offer the correct level of service, and people tend to stay on in our properties because they've had good service levels. What we find from people who come into our managed portfolio the tenant side at least they report back on what terrible experiences they've had where things just went unrepaired for weeks and months and in the end they've moved out over a bloody washing machine. It doesn't work anymore. So we stay on top of that and I think in the end they've moved out over a bloody washing machine. Yeah, it doesn't work anymore. So we stay on top of that, and I think in the more recent years this stuff uh, we've done with you guys has really changed the way we've worked. It's made.

Speaker 4 12:19

Yeah, I I'm one of the rare people that quite like a call out when you speak to people, uh. So I always had a tactic. There was a few people I would call that I know I'd have a good conversation with. Might not be anything to do with property, but it'd get you a bit g'd up and ready. But working with the life cycle systems, you kind of go.

Speaker 4 12:40

It's not a case of I haven't called out anything on like fitzrovia for a while. It's more like right, who's interacting, who who is ready to do something, and you have, you know, might only call 10 people, but you'll have six, seven, eight meaningful conversations with them as opposed to yeah. Yeah, mark, it's all right, it earned what to do next. Um, and that's really helped the team on all levels to know who to call and when and crucially, perhaps more importantly, in a way, who not to call, not to bother with yeah, because you're not going to get anywhere with it yes, I've still got a friend who works at kfh and every every time I meet him, always I say how's the process going?

Speaker 1 14:05

Obviously he's like a letters manager in one of the big offices and he just said I'm still targeted to call 100 people and I said how's it going? He said so demoralizing, he said, because like 90, 95% of people don't even answer the phone. And actually the people you do speak to, the people you are still stuck on the phone wishing you hadn't called.

Speaker 3 14:28

He's like, yeah, wasting over half an hour of actually getting nothing from that um. Do you think that all comes from um? Like you said, before the technology could give you that insight? And also, crucially, I guess before the technology was, uh, maybe staying in touch with your customers. Do you think it comes from a period of time whereby, actually, when we were doing that sort of stuff call outs we weren't trying to sell to people, we were trying to let our clients know that we still remembered they were there. You know, keep in touch with everybody, have a chat with them, like you know, see how they're getting on, and it was all.

Speaker 3 15:00

Maybe it had the best of intentions. Like when you first entered the industry, people were like, look, stay in touch with all your applicants, keep a. But nowadays you've got such vast systems, there's such a huge amount of people and those people, if you've got a system that's given them useful information, then then you are still in touch with them and they they're still there. But if you, if you haven't, and you're in a kfh, for instance, there's no system behind it, then they are still targeted to call everyone because they're like these people haven't even heard from us for two weeks. They don't want to hear from you, but like they're just calling them, yeah, they're left with no tune. It just comes.

Speaker 4 15:33

It's the sort of carryover from that yeah, I think you know, when I started and when you guys did it, you probably wrote on postcards where you'd write down the details and the better people would write down. Or got two kids in a dog, yeah, uh, and you know. Or we got a new instruction and you'd flick through people who might have the budget and you know how's the dog getting along. You know that kind of thing, yeah, uh. Whereas you know, the first generation of crms were quite powerful. I, I mean number one. You'd want to put your property on the internet. Well, guess what, it did it for you and you didn't have to put it into every various website to get it on and it would match to the people who were on the thing. So it would narrow down a call list. But there are people you know we're in central London, right? You know, in the sales market there are people who are registered with us, who might have been on a viewing five or six years ago. Now they are buyers. They definitely are buyers, but they're waiting for that one thing. You know they're not going to move whimsically. They've got a house they're perfectly happy with, but they know there's something out there and you would never. If I take something on today. I would never be going right.

Speaker 4 16:48

Who did we do Viewings Railway back in 2015? Whereas when I launched that property, I can certainly say oh, mr Smith, it's like you know, light bulbs going off, bing, bing, bing. Right, how are you? Do you remember we saw that? Yeah, I did you just put something on that. I quite like they. You, yeah, do you remember we saw that? Yeah, you just put something on that. I quite like the look actually, and they're like okay then, otherwise other, you haven't just made that random call, but they're happy to hear from you, as opposed to we're calling me, for I was about to say, well, yeah, do you still want to be on the database?

Customer Experience and Short-Let Challenges

Speaker 4 17:16

yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, how does that conversation even go really, when you think about it? The other side do you want to be on the database? I'd like you to erase me. You know, like, what is what? What's the benefit in that? And when we hire people and some of them will come from the corporates and they talk about you know, I've got a call however many people a month, whatever and so many of them say I'll get to like three o'clock on a friday and I will call and if you know, if you actually were to look, it's like not even 10 seconds. They don't want them to answer, they just want, yeah, to get to that man, like number. Yeah, um, they know they haven't got anything to tell this person, just a touch base, and it's a bit of an outdated way of working. But, um, yeah, it's well centuries of I mean before there was even the telephone being all about to walk into every office in here.

Speaker 3 18:10

Really old days do you think, um, it's hard when the market's not so great or you know you're having a bad month or anything to to stick to that principle and not go back to sort of I mean that what we're talking about there is like outcomes over output, aren't we? We're saying, like you know, but you know, even for me that like is as into that idea as possible. When the chips are down and things are really tough, like you know, it's hard sometimes, isn't it not, not to just go, well, phone someone Do you know what I mean? And make something happen. But even as futile as that is, it must be a learning curve for everyone who comes to your company, at least.

Speaker 4 18:58

Yeah, I think it is, but there's always someone to call who will want to hear from you in some capacity. So I would think, rather than calling 10 people who are not interested to hear from you, you'd be better off speaking to an existing landlord or someone who bought a house from you a year or two ago, just to sort of have that nice conversation. So the existing landlord yeah, I know, tenants great, everything's going really well. I just wanted to touch base with you personally just to check you're okay, happy with the management, everything's working out how you wanted it to be.

Speaker 4 19:36

Or if it's someone who's bought a house from you, it's kind of weird in this industry. They're like you know, when you're out viewing with a serious client, you interviewing with a serious client, you may see them three times a week for a month or more, and then they buy it and then be on the. Here's your bottle of champagne, congratulations, really excited for you. Quite often you don't have a reason to speak to them again and quite often they're quite happy to hear from you because, a bit like that, they've got along with you, you've had a few tours and you had a chat and whatever else, and they're the sort of person who go. Well, how's the market doing? What's?

Speaker 3 20:15

my one worth now, and that's plants a seed for maybe I would speak to that if it come about?

Speaker 1 20:17

yeah, absolutely, and and also no different. And then people forgetting that once you had that conversation, meaningful conversation, which you, I think you said beginning it all takes, is that another conversation amongst them with someone else they know and he just plans to see going. Oh, actually, funny enough, I was only speaking to my agent the other day. Yeah, like, if you're looking to do something, this robs a glp. Sweet to them. Yeah, um, see, a hundred percent, do you find then?

Speaker 3 20:41

um, it sounds to me like you know, the whole thing has always been very much about the customer experience for you, because in the very early days they were dealing with you as a person yeah and even now the way you're talking about it is you just, you just want people to have a good experience, whether they're a tenant, whether they're a landlord, whether there's business to be had or whether they're old business. You want people to have a good experience and say good things about the company. So, over the 20 odd years that you've been, what are the challenges that you've faced in terms of getting staff to be able to represent the company in the way that you want, the number of deals you want to?

Speaker 4 21:16

you know, if you work with the bigger portfolio clients. I always try and breed this you're as good as your last deal mentality. So, yeah, on occasion you may make a mistake, but if you've done 100 good things before that, the mistake's easy to forgive. Um, and they have to understand that you're not coming from a corporate where you've got thousands of privates, landlords or thousands of instructions that you know. If you lose one, it doesn't really matter. You've got to be more consistent and on the ball.

Speaker 4 22:00

We've got an excellent sort of compliance team that you know in the letting side in particular, major problems in central London at the moment with the short lets in Airbnb market, and we have a zero tolerance policy on it. So we use very sophisticated systems to A weed out people who are doing it, so we don't interact with them. Even before viewings, we put out some really really positive stuff uh on your platform uh, whereby we said like, effectively, if this is what you want to do, go down the road, don't come to us, because you're just wasting your own time. Forget our time. You're wasting your own time.

Speaker 4 22:44

You're not going to get the flat and this is people taking a flat and then yeah, renting it out as a airbnb or something right yeah, but where that worked really well, um, and actually got picked up by westminster city council, uh, was a load of people who have had that experience with an agent who basically didn't care. You know they put in someone. It's all over airbnb. They were friends with the neighbors. They used to live in the flat, uh, and their neighbors are upset because there's a stag party every weekend. They're then coming to us saying, could you help us? Uh, and I think that's quite important.

Speaker 4 23:19

I mean, a lot of my peers are actually have airbnb departments within it. They might not publicize it as much, so renting themselves and doing it, but you know it's not got the right insurance. It's not a good thing for a community. You know, hotels are there for a reason. Service department buildings are there for a reason to have you want to know your neighbors and as much as people think you know london, there is no community. That's obviously not true. There is and it's not fair for you know the little old lady down the corridor to have to put up with that every weekend and they're paying a lot of money to live there, so why should they?

Speaker 3 23:54

well, and especially if the landlord has decided they don't want to go down that road, and it's not for the tenant to decide that they're not going to go down that road, is it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 24:04

it's awful. It's awful and you know something? I hope, uh, at some point there'll be some legislation brought in to deal with these things properly, because it shouldn't be happening, but I don't think, you know. If anything, I think a lot of the local authorities are quite complicit with it.

Speaker 3 24:19

Yeah, yeah, crazy. It's funny that community thing you talk about as well, isn't it? Because, like you say, like it does, people do sort of feel like it's just a, it's just a big city, there's no community, but like it's just that the communities are, they're smaller and, if anything, more tight knit, you know, because you're talking about a community of people that live in a block or a couple of blocks or a social, you know, club or something like that, as opposed to everybody, everybody in a village. You know, yeah, um, they're their own little villages, aren't they? Those little communities are their own little villages inside london. Um, what do you think are some of the? Um, some of the myths that people have about having a state and letting agency in the bang in soho, in the middle of london, what do you think is like some of the most common?

Speaker 1 25:05

myths making, making money yeah.

Charging Your Worth in Property

Speaker 4 25:07

Yeah, making money, I don't know. I mean, I think overall, estate agents are up there with traffic wardens in terms of public popularity and that's something industry-wide I think people need to work on, because you know that we've touched on earlier 100 calls a week target, that's just annoying for the public People. A week target, that's just annoying for the public People. Being screwed over, that's just annoying, I think you know. I believe I remember the first flat I moved into with the guys. It was great. You know it should be exciting, you should be collecting the keys and it should be a positive thing.

Speaker 4 25:44

Most moves in life are milestones. You move in with your partner for the first time, or you know if you're downsizing, if you're at the other end of the scale, and I think it should be exciting, uh. But it often ends up being a horrendous experience and I think as an industry, we probably need to look at that. Like you know, we try to make it memorable, we try to take the stress out of it. We're very clear on what know. We try to make it memorable, we try to take the stress out of it. We're very clear on what we need, uh, and make it as quickly as possible.

Speaker 4 26:13

What do people think about me working soho? I mean, you know, it's a very colorful area. There's a lot of colorful people not perhaps as much as it used to be, but a lot of the colorful people had a lot of the property, um, and it was a lot more difficult to plot who your um people would be, who your applicant target market was, um, whereas now, um, it's a bit easier. It used to a bit more could be from any walk of life, whereas now, increasingly, the way Soho's evolved, you've obviously got a good international student market, but there's a lot of professionals now that want to be there and maybe the more creative types perhaps don't have the budgets for it anymore because it's got very expensive.

Speaker 3 27:02

Yeah, moved out maybe a little bit towards the outskirts of London, I guess, yeah, as those areas have transformed as well, haven't they? Yeah, all that sort of thing, it's all moved out there, I suppose, hasn't it?

Speaker 4 27:15

Well, when you look when I started out, you know there were areas in London. I would never say there was anywhere that was a no-go area, but there were areas that were more sketchy than others and it's hard push to find them these days, certainly in terms of property values. Yeah, it's very different.

Speaker 3 27:33

So when you started in the industry, you said there about the Sainsbury's carrier bag, the A to Z, the bag of keys, obviously, like there's so many things in just that explanation that can't be done anymore as things have changed with you know, compliance, technology, maps on phones, all of that sort of stuff. Where do you see it going? Uh, it's that agency. In terms of ai technology, just I don't know what's gonna. How do you think this is gonna start to pan out?

Speaker 4 28:01

I think it's interesting. I think there's a lot of corporate buyouts and there's reasons for that, um, but what I'm starting to notice more and more is single person really integrated with the tech, really understanding the social media elements of it, and in time, I think we're going to be left with that type of agent and then the big corporates. Will Rightmove be around five years from now? Yes, will it be what it is now? No, I think we're going to see people, I mean already remember what movie was it where they said Google it and then that was like a milestone for Google? Was it where they said Google it and then that was like a milestone for Google?

Speaker 4 28:49

People now are asking AI questions. You know, where should I go out tonight? Or what's good for this, where's good for a family holiday? But increasingly over the next few years, people are just going to be getting it to do everything for them. So, as an agent, we use use it, we understand its capabilities and you know, I think six months from now, what we understand now will be almost irrelevant.

Speaker 4 29:17

Right, could you have an ai bot doing viewings for you? I mean, people might laugh about that, but it's very plausible that these things could happen, but in terms of automations within the company, it is changing. Could it do referencing? Personally, I am a little bit old school that I'd be happy for it to do round one of the referencing and then have someone sign it off and check it with making sure it adheres to what we want it to. But as it gets better and you train it and everything else, a lot of jobs, not just in industry property, I mean just across the board. I mean, where are call centers going to be, for God's sake? So it could lead to, you know, more 24-hour operations, which is a good thing, isn't it? No one wants to do a viewing at four in the morning. Send the robot. Yeah, send the robot for that. Send the drones.

Speaker 3 30:12

Send the robot and the stab list.

Speaker 4 30:13

But yeah, there's a lot going to change, a huge amount and I think just in general life it's going to change. If you look back to when Google first came about, you know the bloody yellow pages in the thompson local I just said he's like there. Like you know, they don't let anything.

Speaker 3 30:31

the yellow pages stop printing my sooner I must have done. I mean, I was amazed the other day on the radio I heard an advert for you know 118. Yeah, I had an advert for it. I was like who's using that? Yeah, who's using who's paying? Like what? Is it like? Three pound a call to say can you tell me a plumber in my area please? They do a Google search for you for three quid.

Speaker 4 30:49

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's going to change. It is going to change and I think you've got to. You can't be a Luddite about this, Like whether you like it or not, and whether you think we're going to end up a judgment day out of Terminator 2 is kind of irrelevant. We've got to understand it as best we possibly can and look at ways to incorporate it. You know, in the sector, costs are escalating. There's no two ways about it. And if there are ways that you can remove some of the administration and let's be honest, very few people like administration it's something you have to do in all walks of life and if you had something that could do that for you and do it better than you and quicker than you, why wouldn't you want to embrace that?

Speaker 3 31:38

yeah, and those, those people could then do another job, maybe as long as there's, there's always going to be some useful, valuable things to be done by humans, like you know. So what are those things and how do you upscale to it? It's similar.

Speaker 1 31:53

I mean you highlighted there. You know you talked about a lot of the AI stuff, like the checking element to it. You know what I mean. Like the AI bot does the first line of referencing and then the human then makes sure that that's correct and then the human then makes sure that that's correct, like it's still there's still an element of the human making sure that that is all correct and monitoring the results and what they come back with.

Speaker 1 32:57

There's any anomalies. We need to go back to the ai and work out why it keeps saying that, um, so, so I think there's going to be there'll be new jobs. You're writing what you're saying. I think a lot of the administration when it comes to lettings, inquiries and that first line of that initial part of trying to gather the data and to find the best people to speak, to have those conversations with, I think is the. I think I think that is where we probably see a massive saving and obviously the automation when it comes to the management of properties as well, and gas safe and certificates and all sorts of stuff like that.

Speaker 4 33:30

Yeah, no, there's just going to be a lot and I think it's evolving at such a pace. If we have this conversation a year from now, yeah, you know the sky's the limit then you know it's really. Yeah, it's not, I would say, fully in the public realm yet. I mean, people are aware of this thing. That's going on, but as it becomes front and center of people's thinking, then things will change incredibly quickly.

Speaker 4 33:54

But I think with it, you're right, you always need the human interaction. You know, I believe that you know moving home is a personal journey that you go on and you want someone there you know an actual human to interact with. Fair enough, if your inquiry was dealt with by a bot, you're going to want someone there you know, an actual human to interact with. Fair enough, if your inquiry was dealt with by a bot, you're going to want that. If you're in, you're going to want to have that conversation with that person and to feel that they're kind of on that journey and in your corner helping you make that happen.

Recruiting the Right Team Members

Speaker 4 34:22

So I think a lot of the better agencies now are doing a lot more video stuff. Um, not just oh, here's a video, this nice house, do you want to buy it kind of videos, a bit more about them and them as a brand and them as individuals sitting within that brand and the area that they look at. Because ultimately you know estate agents there's something that are useful when you need them, but when you don't need them it's just another shop to walk past in some areas when you walk down a high street and it's just estate agents, it must be quite frustrating when you're not buying a pint of milk, but I think if you can put some information out that's credible, useful to the individuals when they kind of actually may need to move home, and I might go that company you told us where the best school was in the area. That's it.

Speaker 1 35:14

Yeah, cool then and have you, have you always been that brand? Like, because you know, like, yeah, you started with a bag of keys. 18 months later you're starting to deal with larger corporate companies moving into that space, obviously taking on getting two offices, taking on two, so you've got a great compliance. Like, where did you learn? Because, having dealt with you for quite a few years now, there is an essence of even speaking to a lot of your team members. There's very much similarity amongst the types of people you recruit and then there seems to be a bit more of a, there's more of a heart to your brand than I'd say maybe some of the agents I've spoken to I've. You see in the industry. So, like, has that? Has it always been the case? If you'd learn? Like you know, we came to a recent brand workshop. We did mic science and obviously there was a lot of questions around that. But was there any point during the last 20 years that you've gone? Ah, this is actually how we should be operating, or has it just come naturally to you?

Speaker 4 36:15

I think I kind of live my life by you. Don't screw people over, and I think in business I'm sure I could have had more successful years at various points, but I might not be here today. I believe if you go the extra mile for people as soon as you're getting the right payment for it um, that's perhaps a different question uh, then you can maintain a service level. You want people to have a good experience with you and everything you know that might be when you're in a restaurant ordering dinner, that you're not being mean to the waiter, the wait waitress, the bar staff. I think it's, you know, it's a personal value set and we, you know, explain that to people at interview. And when people start working for us, they don't actually interact with the public for a number of weeks, so they'll be in the office, they'll be showing all the normal things and train on systems, but then they'll follow different people by shadowing them, seeing how they do things.

Speaker 4 37:17

Now, part of that is how you would do things and how I do. Things would be slightly different, may end up with the same result. They might learn something from you and something different from me and can combine the two, and it's a hybrid that works for them, but a big part of it is to make sure that they have the same sort of values. It's very easy in an interview stage to say, oh yeah, I believe in that. Yeah, that's right. But then first thing they're doing is trying to push someone, shoehorn someone into a property like I don't think we need to be salesy in this industry. If I show you a house and you don't like it, I can't make you buy it. You know facts like where you're going to live for the next however many years. I'll go on, then I'll buy it. Buy it. It's ridiculous, but I see agents doing it all the time like why? Why is he going to go?

Speaker 1 38:04

no, no, I don't mind that, you know well, told me I'm going to buy his house.

Speaker 4 38:08

Yeah, I live there I don't need a garage, even though I've got three cars. Oh, I'm not bothered about this school because you know my kids can just go to that one. That's not very good, like no one's gonna go on with that. But you see, the hard sell, like what you need to be doing as an agent, I think, is selling yourself and your brand, yeah, making that person, when they meet you, like you a A degree, like to have had a good conversation, and that can be about property, it can be about football, it can be about the weather, it can be anything. And then when you phone them up or message them next time and go, I've got a place for you, they think that was a nice interaction previously.

Speaker 4 38:46

You get an idea of what I want, all right I trust you and a lot of the time when we make those calls, we haven't got anything to show them pictures, wise, or videos wise, yet it's just. I've just come back, we've just been signed up by this person, this is what you want, and without showing them anything, you might talk them through the property, but without telling them okay, when can I get in there?

Speaker 1 39:10

and that's the trust element, as opposed to john, that you want that and that's very much that traditional agency that still lives and is lost by quite a few agencies out there. They chuck them right, move and hope for the best, try and sell to them. So it's like you know I mean you that it's a hustle still, yeah, in a good it's a positive.

Speaker 3 39:26

I think that comes, like because of the market you're in. You like, like rob said, that's been lost from a state agency outside of london, um, because they have sole agency agreements and they just take their time with it. You think that, like you guys have kept that, that form of a state agency, because a lot of the stuff in london might be multi, you know, might be on with a few agents, so like I ain't got time to be waiting for even for it to get on the internet.

Speaker 4 39:52

Yeah, I think so. But I think if you understand, if you're day-to-day dealing with applicants and you know who your people are, who need to move and what they're looking for, you should be able to walk out of any property or any team meeting when you've been told right, we've got this new place, this is what it is. You should have in the front of your mind right? I know rita, sue and bob too, they're my calls, yeah, you should know. And it's understanding your customer.

Speaker 4 40:22

Um, you know there's still loads of agents where we operate that you know drag people around to pointless viewings and I just think it's a waste of everybody's time just getting their numbers up. But that generates what exactly? Yeah, generates. When you next call the person, they're like I don't want to see email. There's six house and a rich review dress to me. Um, you know, I would rather show someone one property that they want. Um, then show them six that they don't, for obvious reasons.

Speaker 4 40:53

But it is lost. A lot of the corporates and, as an industry, I think there's an increasing amount where they're paying them buttons. They're getting in these young kids who are running to work eight in the morning to eight at night to make however many hundred phone calls and they live a burnout. They won't hit the targets whatever and they're gone and I do feel sorry for them because I think some of them could be great. Yeah, yeah, they're brought into an environment that isn't a good environment, and then it's the. I was in state agent once conversation years later, yeah you mentioned in there.

Speaker 3 41:30

Like you know, provided you're getting paid a decent fee for the work, you can supply a decent service. Um, what would you, over the years, like of having had to face this challenge that I'm going to talk about? There must be some people that are sitting listening to this podcast, going like you, but it's just not possible to charge the amount that I want to charge in my area. What would you say to that?

Speaker 4 41:56

um, in short, it is uh, but I think you need to put a value on your time. Number one uh. Now, if we look at it on our business model, we get paid on results, so we don't try to know agents around the country are different what they'll charge for, you know, photos, marketing et cetera. We throw all of that in, even depending on the sales. If there's some level of compliance UPCs we would just pay for all of that because it's not a lot of money. People don't know where to go and it makes their life easier. But you need to demonstrate your worth and for me, I sit down with the vendors and my team do and understand why they're moving, why they want to sell Crucially what they owe on it in the current market, because there's a lot of people who may not know it but they're sitting in negative equity, um, so you need to understand at what price they will part with the asset and then from there, if you feel you can sell it, sell it and understand your value, what you're bringing. Know you're not going to write a two sentence description for a four bedroom property and sling on half a dozen bad pictures and think that's good enough. You know if you're going to go out there, you know, take time for the launch, not just slinging on right, move and make a cup of tea and wait for something to happen.

Speaker 4 43:29

If you're going to be speaking to people doing things off market, getting people through the door, you've got to get paid for it. Um, you know, for every flat house you sell, there might be another one that you didn't. So, yeah, it might be a large number. Um, you know, two percent, one and three quarters if it's expensive property is a large number for someone. But if you're going to get them a result and get them in the time frame that they want, that's worth money to them. Yeah, so don't be scared of saying, well, yeah, you can go to them and call me back in a couple of months, but whatever you do, in one part in advice I always give to them is be careful how long you're signed in for, because so many of the agents you know I've seen even 26 week agency rich when you think about it half the site.

Speaker 3 44:18

Yeah, just give me half a year to try to sell it for you yeah, you know what?

Speaker 4 44:22

what question should that vendor be thinking at that point, like why and why is it so much more money than everyone else? Yeah, what magic bottle do they have that they're gonna?

AI and the Future of Estate Agency

Speaker 1 44:31

it's crazy, because imagine that was actually. You had to put it on the advertising. Yeah, I mean we will sell your house in six months. Yeah, and someone's thinking I want to move this summer, like six months, I'm gonna move by christmas.

Speaker 3 44:41

So a lot of that comes back to really a lot of the conversation. Really, doesn't it? Like you're saying like if you've created a service that you're proud of, whereby you go I I know I give people good service and uh, of course no one can know 100 that we're going to sell the house for this much money. Like, no one can know that all that you can be in control of is the effort that you'll put in the service that you'll give, the customer experience that you'll give, and then you put the price on that for you to be able to run that business and make a profit, which is the whole point of having a business. Then there's no point in negotiating. If the person doesn't want to pay is there. If they don't want to pay it, then I guess you haven't got a business like well, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4 45:25

And I I find it kind of funny how and I I've been there myself when I've seen agents come in and say well, you know, our normal fee is two, but we'll do one, so you might as well just say we'll do one. Yeah, like we're going half price. And I kind of wonder why people sign those agreements. So you're entrusting your house, the negotiation probably the most expensive thing you own, with a guy who's just gone. I'll do half price. In the same sense he hasn't even given you. We normally go with two pulls. It's just the same sentence. Yeah, like, what are you doing?

Speaker 4 46:02

And you know it is expensive to be in central London. You know rents are sky high, rates are eye-watering. In central London, rents are sky high, rates are eye-watering and all the other costs. If you're going to pay your staff right and you're going to look after your staff properly, there's a cost to that. And it's important, certainly in a business like ours, that you have got good people, because I think in property, the longer you're in a given market, the more you know. I know more today than I did last week. You're exposed to new things all of the time, so you don't want people coming in, putting in a good three years, four years, five years service and then leaving, because as much as you can get information out of them on an exit interview, it's their experience there and increasingly now their brand, if you like, within within your brand, and if they go to a competitor, they're taking a lot of information you know right up there that it's gone.

Speaker 1 46:59

I was actually going to ask you because you you sort of brushed over around. When you go for the interview process, you do, you do your values base, like this is what we believe in, this is our values. You know, how many agents do we speak to and it's like that's like almost seen as like a challenging thing to do. Like eight I'd probably say seven out of eight agents out of ten across the country probably don't actually they have got something of values. But I don't really bring that into the interview process. And then that onboarding process of like right when you do join us, this is what we believe, this is our values, this is how we work. This is our fundamental belief as an experience for our clients. This is actually how we operate.

Speaker 1 47:38

It's not just a numbers game and then when you join us, you're going to be shattered by people before we let you out there. Not, I'm going to give you a bag of keys and see you in about three days time. So from do you, do you get a recruitment process right enough, you see the right people when you interview process, or do you have you still found that? Uh, when you go through that process of I know, I see whether they're like on interview and then a few weeks later actually they're not cut for us, because I speak to a lot of agents out there who bring someone on. They're with them for about a month like they're a nice person. I keep them on for another month, six years. They're a nice person. And then they start to realize like actually they don't align with anything that we want to do or they're not fit for it. But I've now stuck with. This person is nice and I'm too nice to just say sorry, you can't work her anymore well I think you want.

Speaker 4 48:30

You want a team, like for me. I spend a lot of time at work, as most people do, so you want to be in a room with people that you can get along with and are aligned with the values, which are kind of like personal values as well. So that's, you know. Maybe call it a selfish thing in a way. If you're going to be sitting in a room with someone, you want to get along with them and not have the arguments. But if you've got someone, it doesn't matter how good they are at selling, doesn't matter what fees they're going to generate, it's going to end at some point if they're just completely different from the rest of the company and it's going to cause problems within the company. So for me it's, you know, it's a pass on that person. Don't care how good your numbers are, what you're going to do, and if you go to competitor, fair enough, and then go over there do some good numbers, good luck to you. But I would rather make sure we're there from got the right people from the beginning and like we don't always get it right, like have had to part company with people and and good people as well, you know, on a human level, they're lovely people but they just don't quite get it. And some others, you know some people I think it's serial interviewers. They interview really well but within a few days you hang on where's that person from the interview and, um, in a way it's been cruel to be kind. Yeah, you know, if I let you go after a few weeks because it's clearly not going to work now, I always let people go and, don't worry, you'll be paid up fully, not looking to screwing on over, and we're happy to give you a reference.

Speaker 4 50:03

But there's no point continuing it for anyone's sake. You know, not for them either. They, they could go off and you know we may not be the right environment and when you, when you expanded your team from that, you know, not for them either.

Speaker 1 50:11

They, they could go off and you know we may not be the right environment. And when you, when you expanded your team from that, you know, just you on your own and then moving, was that was just, was that just a natural thing that you, you did? When you started to recruit more people to fill a business? Did you just sit down with them? Or was it a case of like, oh my god, I've got a couple of people I've had, but they, they're not that good and I need to work on this.

Speaker 4 50:30

I think my first few were really good hires and got two of them. They were only 12, 13 years and only left because they emigrated. So I can't come to London from Australia and Canada.

Speaker 1 50:48

Great London, great Sydney.

Speaker 4 50:55

Could work out. But you know you, you just want to make sure that in a way, they're there to service your clients and to help you. Yeah, so if they're not helping you and they're not servicing your clients in the same way that you could do yourself, you might as well do it yourself. But then it gets down to the thing, well, and it's going to help me because I can't do it all, um, so you know, even now we don't get it right every time. Don't get me wrong, it's not. There's no easy fix for this.

Speaker 4 51:21

I think you know, normally we'd have two or three of the more senior people to see them to give an opinion. Um, it shouldn't just be one person, because I'm not saying you get duped, but other people to see them to give an opinion. Um, it shouldn't just be one person, because, not saying you get duped, but other people will see other things in people and I like that, but I wasn't so sure about that and you have a little talk about it as opposed to that person. Look how many deals they've done. They're really good. Um, it's as I say. It comes back to if you've got the properties, you'll have the people for them. So it's about facilitating the connection between the property and that person yeah the experience.

Speaker 4 52:00

There's no hard sell really, is there? It's qualification of the person being available, offering a good service and a good experience to them, and then moving on to the next one, love it Very good you have any other questions?

Speaker 1 52:17

No, really good, really good, this one, really really good. Thanks very much, rob. Good to see you both.

Speaker 2 52:21

Thanks very much. Thanks for listening to this Estate Agency X podcast. Can you make sure that you're actually subscribed to this podcast channel if you liked the content? It helps us massively to get better guests, and it just helps us generally. So you might think you're subscribed, but just have a double check whatever your podcast platform of preference is that you're actually subscribed and then that way we can continue to grow the channel and get better and better guests for you.