Building A Human-Centered Estate Agency With Rob Webb

What does survival really look like in estate agency? In this episode, Kinetic Estate Agents director Rob Webb shares his journey from corporate pressure to building a culture-first independent agency that prioritises autonomy, wellbeing, and real results over ego.

Rob reveals what 2008 taught him about stock, pricing, and honesty, why he left the corporate machine, and how Kinetic built a team that stayed because the culture worked—not because targets dictated it. He also opens up about a mental health crisis that forced him to rebuild his life and leadership.

We dig into community impact, modernising with tech and AI, and staying relevant when the market swings hard.

A must-listen for leaders who believe culture is operational, not optional.

👉 Hit play and subscribe for grounded agency insights.

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Transcript

Meet Rob Webb Of Kinetic

SPEAKER_03 0:00

On this episode of Estate and CX, I'm with Rob Webb from Kinetic Estate Agents. Rob's got a business in Lincoln. They cover sales, lettings, and new homes. Rob covers the highs and lows of his business in the last seven years from like mental health, team culture, data, AI. So this is a really, really good packed episode, and I hope you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Estate N TX, the UK's number one Estate Entity podcast discussing the future of Estate Entity, entrepreneurship and business. Host Mark Burgess and Rob Brady.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

So Rob, welcome to the show. For anyone listening or watching out there, Rob Webb from Kinetic Estate Agents. So Rob, give a bit of background to any listeners or viewers out there who don't know who Rob is, never seen you on LinkedIn. Yeah. You've arrived at Estate Agency Today.

Early Career And Corporate Training

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah, no problem at all. I've only just started using LinkedIn actually. Just started to use the power of LinkedIn. But yeah, I'm the director of Connecticut Estate Agents. We're based in Lincoln. Uh opened in uh August 2017. So uh eight years this year, we've been open and trading.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

So um setup of your business right now? As in Like as in uh you're a state agency or a letting agency.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Oh sorry, yeah. So yeah, uh we're mainly a state agency. Um we do lettings as well, but at the moment we're kind of capped on that because I need to get more office space so we can grow. Um but yeah, our main focus is residential resale, but I do have a a new home side to the business as well. So we specialise and I've got a specialist in uh new homes team.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Um and um what's the size of the sort of how many people have you got in your team at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Uh altogether, including myself, there's 11 of us.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

So quite a good size actually for uh one branch effectively agency.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Um so you set up in 2000, you said 17, yeah? Yeah. Uh so let's let's real run back before then. So has uh has estate agency been in your blood before then?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah, I worked in agency. Uh I started in 2006, I think it was. Uh worked for corporate agents for a while. Kind of I was in there for a few, maybe four or five years, and I dipped out, then I dipped back in again, and then an opportunity came up to open up um in 2017. So I thought, you know what, let's just go for it.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

Yeah. So similar to me, actually, because I I remember I was working in a job and I said, Well, I'm gonna go to a state and scene in about 2006. Yeah. And they were saying, Well, you know, you at the time markets were reasonably still good, uh, and then obviously hellfire and took place for a few years after that, wasn't it? Yeah. Um you said I certainly learnt my craft in that period of time. So um, so before before 2006, um, was it what what was your sort of line of work before that?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

What was your Oh I was just if if I'm on a sub, yeah, I was just young, bound to, you know, sort of moving from customer service to uh telephone sales as well, I think I was doing. Yeah. I used to work for a company called Phones for You in a mobile phone shop in in um Nottingham. That was probably my first real job. Yeah. Used to come bounding up to people, trying to sell them a Nokia 3210. Whatever they were. Yeah, yeah, no, but people used to walk past and do all that phones for you stuff as well. Yeah. So yeah, I did it, I think I did about a year and a half on that, actually, which it was enjoyable, it was fun, uh, but I don't it wasn't for me for forever. And then that's when I started trying to I did customer service for a little while after that, and then got into agency.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

And and so uh what was it just a case of like you were interested in property or uh was it just a random job and thought, fuck it, might as well give agency a go?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, if I'm completely honest with you, um I saw a job advert, I I didn't have any experience, but I thought, you know what, I'll put myself out there. Sounds good, sounded uh a little bit more professional than running around selling math. Not there's anything wrong with that, but I wanted out of that shop. It was really, we get lots of people walking in a bit uh crazy at times. So yeah, I got an interview, I got the job, I started in Loughborough, um, which is towards Leicester, and then I moved to West Bridgeford. Uh I'm allowed to name who I worked for, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I worked for Hart for quite some time. That's where I learned that's where I learned my craft at Heart.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

And so so going back to that 2006 period, so you're fresh to the industry, you're in a corporate sort of machine, they probably had their own internal training you probably went through. I went through I was the officer, I was at Connell, so I was pretty much similar entry to you. I was at Connell's uh in late in Buzzard era during my training and sort of Kentway, and you're sort of further up the road. So what did you what did you learn in those early days of being underheart and the brand? And also, what did you learn in that going into the shit bit of the market that probably no one ever really saw?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, well, I I kind of I got thrown in the deep end actually when I started. I just got sent to Leicester for my training, which wasn't really training as such. I just landed in branch one day, and there's a a lad uh Rob Anderson, he actually he's um he's on my LinkedIn, he's a real nice guy. Um, but he was out like sort of training me up in-house as such, and then I went from there to look but there was no I didn't have a trainer. A trainer did come in the end, yeah, but I was just literally chucked in the deep end. I didn't know anything about estate agency dynamics, I didn't know about anything, and it was just a case of learning the systems and then learning about viewings and everything else.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

So it would did you come in literally as like a neg role?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, so literally came in as a trainee neg. I think it was Paul Hughes's name, was that uh interviewed me? I don't uh I don't follow him, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

And uh what was the what was the original perception like you had from what you thought estate agency was to that sort of first few months?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Well yeah, I d I mean yeah, yeah, because obviously there's a lot of stigma around estate agents, um, and I kind of I probably did fit that stereotype to be honest with you. You know, I was going in with I had my shortback of sides and electric blue suit and tie. That's right. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I thought I was I was bloody brilliant. Um so I was probably feeding into the stereotypes, to be honest with you, because that's what I thought was about. Um, but yeah, it was it's all I knew at the time. You know, we used to come in, uh morning meeting, we would need to be there for quarter past eight in the morning, we'd have to do morning meetings, uh, we'd be looking at the we'd have a big whiteboard out there where we'd be throwing pledges out, um, which I never really f fully understood, you know, because uh in my own head, I thought, oh, well, I'm going to work and you know, I want to work my hardest and do my best and sell as many houses as I can. So I suppose that morning meeting to me was more of a lip service than anything else, you know, saying that I'd pledge I'm gonna get three mortgage appointments, I pledge I'm gonna get five viewings, but really what I was doing was my best anyway. So um, and yeah, it was very targeted, very structured. But I it I can't, I'm not here to slag off another agent. They took they taught me my trade. Um, I met some lovely people there as well, and I'm still in contact with some some people.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

And how long were you there for?

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Um I was with them for about five, maybe four, four years or something like that.

Lessons From The 2008 Downturn

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Four years, so yeah. So coming out the end of the, I would say, not not exactly like the better-ish of the market.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Well, no, I worked that I worked through that recession 2007, 2008, 2008, and it was horrendous. It was really hard.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Um, and I can remember just having to adapt. So, and I did a you know, adapt pretty well because we'd gone from learning how to use a hot box. It was always very much applicant-focused when I started, you know, you've got your hot box, you've got these top ten buyers, you must call all these applicants, tell them about this house, ring them now, ring them now. Yeah, but of course, within you know, a space of a couple of months, there weren't many applicants, and applicants weren't buying house anymore. Yeah, so I realized pretty quickly that I had to flick to the other way. I it was about stock management. Yeah. So the properties that we had on the market, obviously the values were coming down, and it was about educating the vendors, getting them to realign the prices to entice the buyers through the door. So it went from being very applicant-based to property-based. And I think I that's I've always been like that since then as well. I've always been the focus of being on the client, the the seller, and just making sure that things are running smoothly there.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Because I think that's quite similar. Like, I've noticed it recently in the last sort of maybe the last year or so where the market's changed from when we came out of COVID and had a lot of new entry agents into the market because the the a the owners needed more staff. Yeah. And it was like, well, just key for the door, put you in place. Yeah. And then I speak to them, and they're like, they're a lot of them are now struggling with how to perform in a different market. And it's not a case of we've got 30 viewings of this one property, and I'll just put a key for the door, and I'm an estate agent.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

You really made me really relive my memory back into that 2007, eight. I was obviously I was in Connell's, I was working in a quiet uh place for Maidstone. So it's like exactly that. Remember that going from like loads of buyers, yeah, to then like have we spoken to these sellers? What's the price reduction? Because I'm at the time I was actually selling my mum and dad's marital home, and I was like, I was having to have a call with my own dad saying, like, you need to reduce your price at this point. And he was like, But that's below it. I was like, but when we exchange, the market would have probably dropped, and we're coming out the other side, and it's just like crazy to think that that that sort of market was very tough.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

So so you're there for sort of four or five years, and then and then what what what led you on after that before um I'd I moved on to some more corporate agents for a while, um, and after a while it just burnt me. I just didn't want to work. I in fact it put me off agency. I thought uh I'd come to a point where and I, you know, I was a hard worker. I liked, you know, I had a lot of banter and a lot of jokes, and uh, but I I was focused. I wanted to be the best version of myself. I just wanted to do well. But I think with how it was for me, you know, whilst he actually win the awards or whatever, I was great. Th there wasn't necessarily that support or recognition in the branches, you know. I think there was a motto that was always used, which is, you know, you're only as good as your last sale, you know, you're only as good as your last sale. And in the end, I just thought, no, you know what, I don't want to put all my efforts into companies that don't because the money, yes, you're earning reasonable money and it's great, but that's not all you want. Well, I guess people want different things, but certainly for me, the money wasn't my my driver, it was being the best that I could be, and but having that infrastructure and support from you know management as well.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

So you see that you've it got to the point where you got rid of, you got fed up with the the corporate grind.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Um and then what? And then did you go and set up the agency then?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

No, no, no. I went into yeah, I had enough of estate agency corporate grind, so I went into car sales. So I went into car sales for a while, but honestly, it was it was like jumping out the frying pad into the fire for me. It was, you know, again, meetings in the morning, bloody whiteboards, and uh target this and target that. And like, you know, again, I'd just smash it. I'd go in there, I'd want to smash it, that's it, and go home. I didn't I don't want these, you know, pledges and meetings and everything else. And you know, we're not we need to do better, we need to do better. Well, we you know, we're doing well. Um, so yeah, I that at that point I I went from car sales and thought, you know what? I loved agency, it's what I was really good at. I loved dealing with with with the the customers, vendors, applicants. So I thought I'm just gonna open up, set up on my own, and just see how we get on.

Leaving Corporate And Starting Up

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Uh and what and so what was that process like for you? Because obviously we like with you know the our folk the podcast is focused on entrepreneurship and business in the state agency. So there might be some people who we do get listeners out there who might be then wanting to take that next step. So uh what was that process like for you when you thought, right, I I've really loved agency. I loved actually what I did. I don't want to be in the car industry, I want to go and set up. Obviously, it's not as easy just to go, right, I'm gonna go and set up tomorrow. So what what how how much sort of preck did that go through? What was it was it a period of time that you went through?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, so me and my friend had started uh um, you know, some dialogue together about opening up together.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Um he had met uh a businessman, you know, that was um, you know, quite affluent but but very supportive as well. And he said he might be interested in besting in uh setting up an agency with us. So me and um a friend ran off and did like a proper business plan, bearing in mind I hadn't had any managerial um experience. So I I just wasn't a sensible, I wasn't really a sensible guy, just like working hard and pratting about going on, whatever. But um, yeah, we put this business plan together. Um Erin's his name, and he said, Yeah, you know what, I will I will help you. He goes, I'm not putting all the money in, I want to see you guys putting money in. So I put some of my savings in, my friend put some of his savings in, he put some money in. Uh my parents, I my parents said, Look, we we want to help you as well. So in some respects I was lucky, but I was but I was still opening up at high cost, so you know I had to find I it's not like I'm I'm a self-employed aging, underpowered by whoever. We you know, we had to get an office, wasn't on the high street, but we had to buy gear. I was giving up my company car, so you know, so I had to get a car as well. And then that was it. We just kind of set the wheels in motion.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

And what did you what did you what did you think from like day one that you thought I I don't want my agency to be like what I've learned? So was there anything particular that you aspired your agency to be around?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah, I think it at first I just wanted to be uh because it was only me and my friend at the beginning, we didn't have other stuff. So I think the idea of the agency certainly for me was that we were just a human, just a normal agency. It wasn't um that's what I wanted. So we're a little bit different. My friend was still quite corporate in in the shirts and ties, and I kept saying to him, Look, I don't want to wear I hate ties, I don't want to wear them. And he was convinced that you could only you could only list properties if you were wearing uh a three-piece suit and a tie. And I used to say to him, it's not true. I said I used to say to him, people relate to you better, you know, will relate to you better if you're open and you're more relaxed and projecting yourself rather than then who are you projecting when you're wearing a shirt and tie? Because I, in my normal life, I'm not walking around in shirts and ties. Yeah. So I'm just projecting someone else or an image of some persona. And how can you truly be free to be yourself and be a human agent if you're like that? For me personally.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

No, no, I I mean I like I used to I used to think that I like to wear glasses to work to make myself more intelligent. So that when people go about the house, you'd see that you'd sound like you're more intelligent enough to sell the house. Yeah. And then clients would see me out of work and they go, glasses on. I'm like, I never it's crazy. I was exactly like you. Like I look back in the old days and I was like, three-piece suit, and I was so uncomfortable in those suits. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a I'm not I've never really been a trim person, so I've always been uh you you're packed in there, especially on a hot commerce day. And now I look back and I think like it's crazy because like now I could I I went to try to go to a wedding the other day and I was like, do I have to wear a suit?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, I don't wear it, I don't wear a tie any weddings, any I don't wear them anymore because I'm crazy, yeah. But um, I know that's another thing as well. When I worked for corporate, on the really hot days, they had to phone up, they would phone up a chain of command to see if you were allowed to take your tie off. So literally, the manager in there would not, you'd think, look, I need to take my tie off. I'm drip, I'm dripping with sweat. And he'd say, I'm really sorry, I need to get the authority from upper. So we would call up upper management to ask if you could take. I mean, that is crazy to me. But yeah, back to that point, me and my friend, we opened up. We were we were slightly different. I think he was a lot more corporate. He had worked, so we we worked together at Hearts, uh, he had kind of worked at William H brown up with things, so we're quite corporate, but we he was called more corporate than I was, so yeah. So we had a different mindset. So I mean I did buy him out a year and a half later because we were just two different things.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

I was saying, I was about to say, uh, that was my next question, I was saying, because it sounded it sounded like that he he he was or he's were like when did that when did that relationship sort of come to a point where you thought actually this partnership probably isn't right because I want to go this style and then you want to go that style? Um so a year and a bit later, so and then so you've got eight eight years of of now being at the steering that ship. So um how how have you found that eight-year period?

Defining A Human Agency Culture

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Um it's been honestly so up and down. I mean, our industry is up and down anyway. You know, we're relying, you know, anything changes, it can affect the the housing market, financial landscape, political landscape, you know, whatever's happening. So we're up and down anyway, but I found the whole journey to be quite emotionally up and down. You know, we when we opened the doors to the office, we we finally opened, obviously, we didn't have people coming through the doors saying, oh hi guys, we really want to use you. You look really good. You know, I was having to fight for business. And I mean, literally, I would be knocking on doors, um, left, right, and centre, please, you know, give us an opportunity. Um, people would say, Oh no, well, well, we'll think about it, but you're just new, and our agent has told us that he might go bankrupt as well, and or you're not based on the high street, because we want actually back then we were probably one of the first agents to open quite a distance away from the town centre. So we opened up on like a a tiny little shopping, like a street in the middle of a housing estate, really. Um, everyone else was either in the city, on the high street, or they were in like your big shop sort of premium shopping complexes, you know, where lots of others. So we're kind of up against it anyway. Uh so yeah, I think at first it was scary. So I was thinking, I need to get business, need to get get it, and that was hookah by crook, knocking on doors, sending out like old all the old school sub letters, and uh luckily people gave us a chance, so there was a few people that you know you you guys look like you know what you're talking about, we'll give you an opportunity. And the first thing I did as soon as we got listings on was social media, get it on there and um social proof as well, get the reviews on straight away, like they we've done it, we've sold this, and um and it went well. We started growing reasonably well, but me and my friend started then growing in different directions, wanting different things for the business. I would then come in not not wearing a shirt and tie, and I think it used to upset him and we we yeah, we just wanted different things, and it and actually obviously it's confusing for the uh the seller because like you'd go and you go around there and see them, and then maybe if you they see your friend, they might be thinking, uh, do they even work for the same brand?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah. Um or is he the IFA that's got you know when it's yeah exactly, yeah. So and you got you said you said you've got 11 member members of staff, so uh you know, was uh when was the when was the first time how long in that journey did you actually take on your first?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Uh so first member of staff came in 2018, so we're done um we opened in August 2017, took on our first member of staff, June 2018. Um she had come from a corporate company, but she was um not a corporate person, so she was you know a real nice just a lovely person. She's still with me now. So you know, so yeah, really nice, very friendly, uh just the type of person you'd want to represent your brand. And then after that, I bought my my friend out, and then I hired another person that's still with me now, Joe. She does all that, she's like sales manager, so she does all the sales progression. And then I hired someone else just after that, Matt, who's still with me now.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Good.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Um I mean I built up and built up the staff, but most of them have stayed. There's only been a couple, I think there's only two losses. Um but most people I've retained since I first employed them.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

That's good, because that's you know, especially when you've been established for that seven-year period and going towards towards a ten, yeah, you have that original knowledge that you've wanted to craft, and if you get that conveyor better of people, and all of a sudden you're just a loss of the city.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, because that's what I wouldn't want as well. And that's what I learned from so when we talk about um my experience with an agency, when I knew I'd get to a point where I wanted, you know, where we got a team and we were filling a team, it was staff culture. That's what was important to me. So I always had this mindset that if I if I'm employing people that I need to babysit to, you know, pledge and to target. Obviously, there's little bits here and there, but I mean to completely target drive to completely pledge, then I'm either hiring the wrong people or I'm not inspiring them enough to want them to be the best versions of themselves. So I didn't want it babysit people, I didn't want it, I I wanted to uh lead with encouragement, you know, like support and but like what I didn't have because I I think that brings out the best in them as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

I think, yeah, a lot like a lot around the autonomy of individual staff for them to feel like they have their own drive and purpose. Yeah. A bit like you said, like the call of the the chain of command just to take your tie off. Yeah. Like what's the reverse of that? So that you can have the and and I speak to a lot of like I've had a lot of agency owners that over the last sort of few years. I spoke to them about their talk about performance. So I'm a big believing the same phase of what you said. And I've said to them, like, if you think about it, like if your team member has two modes of thinking, yeah, if they're under pressure thinking all the time and stressed, they can never they can never get into the mode of being creative, yeah, or or or thinking about something new, exactly. Because they're in fear mode all the time. Yeah. Um so if you can alleviate that in some capacity and they go into that entrepreneurial mindset, creative mindset, thinkers mindset, then you're gonna get the best out of them.

Hiring, Retention, And Team Autonomy

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, they're gonna be a lot more productive. So I did, I thought that I'm what I knew. I'm just gonna do the opposite to. Like I said, I didn't have leadership experience, I hadn't been on any courses to become a manager or a leader or whatever. I just did the opposite because I knew what worked for me. So yeah. Um, and you know, and I'm really lucky. I built an amazing team, you know, and they they've added huge value to the business. I mean, we're the most recommended estate. So our social media, we've got more social, we might be one of the youngest agents in Lincoln, but we've got the most social media five-star reviews, we've got hundreds and hundreds now on Google Trust Pilot, we've got a huge profile in Lincoln, and that's from I I honestly believe from having a positive team working within a a healthy work culture. You know, there's no, like I say, we don't have these morning meetings. I can have an overview of how the business is performing, I can see where it's weaker, we can have conversations within their work time. Because why as well, why do I want to put people in at half quarter past eight, half eight in the morning when that's time that they could be spending, you know, you you sp spoke to me earlier about your ice baths and your cold showers and your grounding and well-being, but that's time that they could spend doing that stuff. So why would I want to pull them in the office to talk to them about that?

SPEAKER_03 24:38

It's a really interesting thing, because it it seems like that's that's a bit I feel like a lot of not just even agency, a lot of owners, businesses out there don't understand that they they worry about that part, but it's so vital, like that well-being part to the team members, because that that creates a like I look at it going, you think about a performance athlete, they have people who are physios, yeah, and then they have people who are mindset coaches, yeah, and they look at the performance of like your well-being, they look at your blood, they look at that part to it. Yeah. So if as an owner, if you can think about that part to the team members, how how how do I make their well-being better? They will naturally perform better. Yeah. Um, because the machine's running better.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

So um you're retaining as well. So you retain if if you've got a happy team, yeah, feeling valued and enjoying the job. And nobody enjoy- I'm not deluded enough to think that some of my some of my team don't think to themselves on the odd days for sometimes they hate me, but yeah, as a whole, yeah, you've got a happy team, you're retaining that team. And if you're retaining a team, you're getting consistent results, you know, you're getting consistent reviews. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

I always liken to it to um you can you can be in muddy, you can be in uh rocky waters out there. Yeah. But the boat if the boat's still solid and the crew's on the boat and that, you can still get for all of it. So even if you've got like we have these turmoil things and they're staying in sea where it's like riding all these waves of the government decided to throw a massive curve and it just tanks us, yeah. As long as you've got the strong boat and the team, you can go up and down, you'll come into clear waters. Uh, but there's no point having like a boat that's got a load of holes in it hoping that you're still gonna get to the shoreline. Um, so you uh you said you've been on LinkedIn for the last sort of six months or so. I've noticed some of the things. I think only like was it the other week that I noticed you put something up about industry awards, and you've done instead of doing the industry awards, you're taking another scheme, is that?

Wellbeing Over Whiteboards

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah. Um about that? Well, for me personally, I I mean, and again, everyone can operate. It's not me slagging off anyone else, but um for me, the award thing is a bit more of an eagle thing, is it? You know, you're not nobody's really coming to your door and saying, right, you've won this award. The award companies are are a money-making enterprise. They'll come in a pro, you know, they'll send you out email. I get emails all the time. You've been nominated for this award, nominated for that award. You know, email us back if you're interested, and book your table here. It's like a thousand pounds to book a table to come and get an award. In reality, you are buying your awards. That that that is the truth. You're spending money to buy an award. So I thought to myself, well, actually, I don't want to, I'd rather let our reviews do the talking because they are the real awards. So what the customers are saying and their testimonials, their recommendations, and reviews are true. That's that's a reality. It's not a company that's never met us before, doesn't come in looking through our books, speaking to customers, and then giving us an award. And then what I'll do is the money that I don't spend on getting awards, I'll put back into the community and and and and do something a bit more um productive. So what was it? What was the recent one you did with a community? Um so that one, I mean, I did that last time. So I did it. Uh there's a charity in Lincoln called Sir Sophie's Journey, yeah, and it's for families that have got so children that are not very well terminal in a lot of cases, and they provide holidays and respite for the families so they can spend time together. So what I do is instead of spending the money going down to London for the awards behind the table, I'll just give that money to them so they can send a couple of families away on holiday as well. Um I've done that a few times as software. I try to I do I do quite a bit of community work as well because I think it's really important, but I have to you have to sort of spread it around a little bit as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

So that's really good. Like I could see I could see that having uh the giving a bit more of a purpose or meaning behind your business is is yeah, very valuable, especially when it comes to the community. Because I think I think a lot of agency talk about community, yeah. And they say we're in the community. It's like are you in the community for you or are you in the community to support the community out there? Like what are you actually doing in the community? Were you are you just fundraising for a little bit and then putting your name against it? Yeah, yeah. And I think I think a lot of people can they see through that a lot. Um so um you've obviously growing through that that process the last seven years. Um so what's what would you say, what would you say has been your biggest high and your biggest low?

Community Impact Over Industry Awards

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Um I think my biggest high was So far? Um I think my biggest high was just getting past that sort of three-year mark, you know, from where everyone would tell you, you know, so many people would say, Oh, it's really oh, setting up on your own, it's really hard. Are you sure that no businesses survive after a year and only or you know, and only ten of them ever survive after two years? So all that was in the back of my head, a lot of negativity and a lot of negative reinforcement from people love to give negative oh be careful. I mean unfulfilled dreams, yeah. Oh yeah, well it's nice, it's nice that you try something, but you know, in a couple of years' time you're welcome back here again. But um, I think just getting past that three years, feeling secure, feeling that actually I I I've built something pretty safe here now. Yeah, we're getting a lot of good feedback from clients, we're getting a lot of uh people coming back to us and and a lot of recommendations. So I felt sort of safe. And I think my I definitely know what my lowest was, and that was um obviously after lockdown we had such a massive market boom, you know this, and you know, we couldn't we're multi-viewings on every house, best and final offers on every house, everything was selling. You could probably I could probably just walk down the street with a a house, picture of a house on a on a piece of paper and someone would buy it. It was so I mean, it in some ways it was really easy because we never weren't necessarily to work as hard on the Market would still give them the market, but we weren't it was selling quickly. But that it came from all the chasing solicitor opposite max capacity, taking a long time to get things through, loads of viewings. So, you know, again we had to shift and what we're doing. But it was after Liz Truss came out and did that little mini budget or whatever it was, and the market just tanked, like you say. It just went. Within one month, the interest rates were shooting up. And you know, I'd come from feeling that buzz of, you know, I've I'm I'm earning money I've never seen before in my life. It's really good. I'm feeling for like not for focusing money, but the business is going well, about to employ more staff now, we're flying, to all of a sudden the market just dying. And, you know, I was just seeing my working capital depleting month after month after month. You know, we weren't covering costs some months, you know, and of course that would take a chunk out. And you know, I was that focused on um the fear of failure. So I was so scared to fail that I let it eat up and consume my whole life. And I I made myself so ill because I was so worried, catastrophized about everything. I mean, it was bad. I couldn't even I I honestly I couldn't even leave the house. And um my father took me to the doctor's, and the doctor said, you know, I this is not good. We need to give you some medications, and uh you need somebody needs to come and see you. So there was like a mental health support team in Lincoln, like a crisis team, and they would come out alongside the medication, and I wasn't sleeping. I was maybe getting two hours night of sleep, a night one hour. I mean, I was crawling around, honestly, I was on my hands and knees in my house, crawling out to my girlfriend and saying, I'm dying, I'm dying, I'm dying. Um, and that was all stress. That was they said they they told me it was chronic stress. I thought it was something else, and it was horrendous, and it's taken me a long time, and I mean a long time, it's taken me two years to even I would to even be here today. I probably wouldn't have done it a year ago. My confidence was so bad, I felt ill inside of myself. And I'll tell you something else about stress. What people is that it's not just mental, it comes out in physical, you know. You you you get pains everywhere, you get rashes everywhere, you lose parts of your hair, you know, it's you palpitations, um it's it's it's a combination of both mental and physical, it's horrendous. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

People people who know me, I did a TEDx talk on on exactly the same thing. Uh it happened to me in 2016 when I was running the agency. Mars did it one side, mass the other side, I was two or three hours of sleep and I was medicating with alcohol and all sorts of stuff. So um that I I lost a best friend uh at the time, and he was basically losing him, save me effectively. Yeah, that was a that was a road to jail. So I've it's not easy on a podcast like this to talk about this, but equally, on the five years I've been doing this side of it, I spend hours with clients. Yeah, I've had clients who have had heart attacks on stress and stuff like that. Um, and you know, the perception on what they want to give out to the world to some of the conversations I've had privately are two separate people. Correct. And the only way they have to find themselves back to harmony is that they have to find themselves back into actually who why do I exist?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Um, you know, we only had I only had one client who, you know, he stepped on stage at um the fear conference. The guys were just talking on podcast, you know. Chris doesn't mind saying, because he talked about his open uh open conversations about his dress, and he stood in front of 200 people and he said like a few years ago, never we've been able to do that. So I really appreciate you for sharing that. Because what was so when you were going for that process, what what was it like um within within the company of going for that process?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Um so and this is where we go back to the beginning because when you create a a good staff culture, then when I was on my I'm not allowed to say arse when I was on my arse. When I was on my arse, my team were nothing but supportive. Amazing. They'd come round, they'd walk with me at night time, they'd come round, they'd buy me things. Um actually makes me feel a bit sad talking around now. Not gonna cry almost the buttons.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

No, but it's the but I was they were powerful leadership there.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

They they they were amazing, and you know, the messages all the time, how you doing, do you need anything? Do you want us to come over? And yeah, I'm really great and I'm really grateful to them for that as well. And I tell them, I've almost like, you know, but yeah, that and I think if it I had not treated them the way that I had done when things fell apart for me, if they hadn't been there, I don't know, you know, where the business would have been and where I would have been. Because they were self-sufficient as well. They can, you know, they've they've been in the business for long enough to know how to run things and operate things to a level. So, you know, whilst I was I was still popping in every so often over a period of time, they they managed things very well, very well.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

And then so, so um, you said obviously it took some time. So for anyone out there, maybe who's just listened to this and sort of thought, wow god, didn't think the podcast maybe was going to go down this route, um, and might be thinking, God, I relate to Bob, like I really relate to some of this, and like probably no one really knows about it. So, you know, I'm a big believer in uh therapy counselling that you recruited it. So, was that a part of your recovery process?

Highs, Lows, And Mental Health Crisis

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, it was part of the recovery process as well. So uh mindfulness, which is a really big thing now, and you you spoke a little bit prior to the and I'm sorry as well that you went through bad times as well, which are you again, you wouldn't realise when you look at someone and you look all fantastic with all your tattoos, you look happy. You know what I mean? But you I look at you necessarily think this is a guy that's been through a little bit of turmoil. You look like a cheeky chat happy chappy. So yeah, it's funny how you can yeah, but yeah, mindfulness is really important. People spending a little bit of time, whether it's in the morning, I'm not telling them what to do again, but grounding yourself. Just I find myself now, and I was taught this in therapy about sort of listening to a few things that you can hear, feeling of things that you can feel five, four, three, two. Yes, five, four, three. Do you know it? Yeah, there we go. Um I think what you do as well, they're called water therapy. That's supposed to be really good for you. Obviously, could sort of doctor before you do this, but that's raising endorphine levels and maintaining them for a while, apparently. Again, do your own research. Um, and yeah, just taking a bit of time out. And of course, affirmations, being a bit more positive on yourself, instead of telling yourself you're shit all the time, yeah. Oh, I'm shit, I messed this up, or I'm you, I can't do this, spend a little bit of time saying, you know what, you you actually did this. You like you opened this up, you you you got a customer, you know, you got this, you've got you built this team along with the album, obviously, but be positive to yourself and a bit kind to yourself. I used to think that was mumble jumble, by the way. I honestly, if someone had come to me five years ago and said about mindfulness and mental health, yeah, I would have I would have been like, you know, I I always had anxiety to levels, but yeah, I didn't manage and get on with it. I had panic attack problems to get on with it. But I think more so now, I think it is very important to, especially for people that uh that have other people relying on them. So in a business, if you're a business owner and you're susceptible to stress and that could affect the business, make sure they take a time out to to look after themselves, be positive to themselves. Um I don't know that feeling as well. You said turn into turn into drinks real easy. You know, that is really that because self-medicating, you know, when you feel stressed and anxious, uh uh there's sometimes there's nothing better than a beer. Yeah. Because it takes away that, but it's the worst thing you can do. Yeah, I honestly I'll say that to anyone as well. Do not pick up a beer. They're a bit there, a bit, there, a bit, don't be embarrassed about it either. Just go go go and get it done.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

So it's interesting because I do a obviously where my journey is to sort of collide outside agency and doing the coaching. We do a I do a performance workshop part of our business accelerator program, and people associate performance with me talking about how to do sales training, yes, and all of it is around um sort of Mazo's hierarchy of needs, how do you put a culture? Yeah, uh I get them to question themselves and where they are, yeah. They write themselves and their personality, and they come on from that workshop thinking, generally, I thought you were going to come to just some performance sales thing. And I and my my my theory is like unless you know yourself and you are comfortable in yourself, how can you be the leader for the others out there? Yeah. Um so I really appreciate that. You'll be supposed to set no no no no, it's perfect, no, no, it's perfect because it's like it's it's nice to all right. It's the reason why we have this podcast, it's around for people out there who are business owners, leadership, and this is a this is a side that needs to be probably discussed more um in those environments. So um you've sort of come out the um the uh not say the other side towards a new new way of new way of thinking, new way of light, uh everything like that. So and then and then um you've sort of we've we've collided as sort of today actually, just met each other face to face, and I'm sure we're gonna do some stuff in the future, but you've just obviously just joined iceberg. Yeah. Um tell us a bit of reasons why like you're probably now seven years and you're now trying to go to that another level of business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

What was the what was the reason for that? Um so uh last September um there were an opportunity around arose for me. There was a an estate agent in Lincoln that just specialised selling purely new homes. Um, and the owner of that wanted to move on to to different pastures, different ventures. Um so we had a meeting and I did, in essence, an acquisition with that company, took on the staff, so took on the there's three members of staff that did it onto two pay, and then took on the majority of the stock. Some of the owners obviously wanted to try out with things, developers wanted to come with us or whatever, which is fine. Took the majority of them all with us, and then I spent a lot of time then sort of growing that side of the business as well, getting them settled in. Uh, but one thing I realized, and and it goes through my fast time goes, is that obviously when we set up, and we spoke about it earlier, you know, I set up on a on a shoestring, you know, my CRM system was tat. It was it was one that had been acquired by another company, acquired by another company, and just I think it was a show. I don't even know whether it what it did. Uh our website was a um was like a template website. It didn't even match the colours, but I mean it cost 700 pounds or something when it set up. So it did. It did what it needed to do and served as a purpose. But um I realised very quickly the dynamics of agency is changing. So, you know, and I think to myself, you know, relevance, you know, you have to be relevant, stay on top. So it's something that you have to be consistent in. And you know, to be relevant, you need to, you know, be innovative in innovative.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

And part of uh innovation obviously is is is prop tech. So I had started looking around, thinking I need a new CRM system. I had a couple of um went down a rabbit hole, yeah. Yeah, pretty much so, yeah, with Paul Beth. Went down all right, Pete Rabbit Hole with it. No, but I had a few demos of a few companies. Uh it probably wouldn't be professional of me to name drop those companies. But I had four demos, okay? And I looked at it all and life cycle, and I'm not here to promote life cycle. I've come on the podcast. I'm sure Mark will love it if I promote Mark. I'll promote you now, Mark. Um, but life cycle came up Trumps, you know, it came up top. It it had everything that I was looking for more in a CRM system, you know, from from being able to manage those journeys to even being able to, you know, integrate AI into so when the value goes out, he can just talk into his phone. And literally, it will ride the whole thing for him when he's out there, saves us so much time. Um, and just to be when I say about morning meetings, now the the the business snapshot, yeah, it gives me straight away, you know, my everything that I need to know straight away.

Recovery, Mindfulness, And Support

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Um because it so because it before it sounded like when you and when you said you set up to write social media, I need to make sure I focus my double down my efforts on social media, yeah. That was a focus. And you're actually quite right. When you look at the the the evolution in the way the world is working, yes, you know, 2007, the iPhone, social media came in like 11, 12. Yeah, the world started to really pick up for the the sort of the generations that were using it more than they say the younger generation, the 15, 16, 17. So you started to go that route, and what it sounds like you're starting to realize that actually, like it's easy to sit um and go, well, I've got all my social media and I do really good reviews, and like so I'm just gonna stay on that relevance, but then it's it's great to hear that you're thinking, okay, where's the next seven years of my business going? And and where does the world where do I need to meet myself in the world? Not just like I'm just gonna carry on doing away with it.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Well, exactly, and that's what I thought because uh I to me I hear you know, you hear a lot of waffle, especially on LinkedIn. There's a lot of waffle, no offense to the wafflers, but they're trying that you know they they're trying to change the the the fundamentals of agency or but they they're kind of deep-rooted that it is what it is. But to me, the most important thing is how sharp you are at the surface. So it doesn't matter, you know, because in you know, a handshake will still work in agency. They're the fundamentals, you know, go and do business, but if you're not, like I say, relevant and you've not got that innovation, it's like your website, Neuron. That is literally for a consumer that is gonna pr that presents exactly what they want to see and need to see within nanoseconds. They're not having to do as much searching around, it's making it easy for them as well as for us. And then, of course, being relevant is connecting. So even now, we're here connecting, we're talking. I'm connected in that group. We're talking, we discussed, we shared things, and I think probably curiosity is what I think being curious it keeps you relevant. Look at what people are doing, you don't, you know, drop the ego because we don't I don't know, you know, I'm not the best. I'm definitely not the best. People can do, you know, other people do things better in certain things and and and you know, other people in in other things. So I think look at what people are doing, let them inspire you, and you can equally inspire them. But that keeps you on the top.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

When so when you when you um took up the sort of neurons, we actually have a mainframe document. How did you like how did that help you? Were you prepared for that? Did it throw you any questions you thought? Never really sit down as a business. Because we a lot of business owners don't necessarily they just grow. You just sit on day one, well get some houses and just keep going. And then you go like seven years down the line, you're thinking, Yeah, why do I who do I serve and why do I even exist?

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Yeah, well, I never, I'll be honest with you, I even, you know, I didn't know all the tech was available. So when I was looking to switch, it was mainly because of the new, I wanted to be able to showcase our new homes off better. Yeah. So under separate sort of microphones and a separate feed on Right Move. And I wanted, I actually was for the website. So I was looking for a website, and then that I then I thought, actually, if I'm getting a website, I might as well get the. And when I had these demos, I was like, oh my god, what's integrating AI into it for and my system was honestly awful. I would it open for five minutes, then close down again, open back up, close down again. The map even putting a property online was horrendous. It was, yeah. So when I did these demos, I was I was like, oh my god. And then when I saw Life Cycle, I was like, this is the shit, and I need to get this. And Paul Best, I'll tell you what, she Paul Best, it was like my a crazy ex girl. He was ringing me every day. I said, Paul, calm down. I'll get back to you in a week, calm down. He messaged me on LinkedIn, messaging WhatsApp in me, ringing me, or he doesn't like to oh he gets on you. Um, but yeah, um, and I thought I'm I'm I'm gonna go with you guys because you just you're what I'm looking for. Yeah, and I think you not only that, you it helps give the customer better service as well. And your customer service, actually, on Marx, whoever did I don't know who does what really, but um the customer service of lifecycle has been absolutely unreal. Like they they contact you all the time, go you through the whole journey with me, giving you loads of support. So if people are listening to this and they're wanting to switch website or CRM system, definitely give you guys a goal.

Acquisition And Scaling New Homes

SPEAKER_03 48:21

I appreciate it. That's literally been a nice, nice uh wrap-up for that. Thank you. So, um, one one question I always like to sort of leave with people on. So you're you're in this sort of new stage, you've started to look at this new well way of working and new way of insights with looking at your data. So, like for anyone out there who who's listened to this podcast, and you we've gone for a big uh roller coaster of your ups and downs, your lows, your highs, uh culture, so much you've given out there. Um where do you see like, you know, you've got the rise of the self-employed model and everyone talks about that, but where where do you see like in your area, where do you see if you are listening to this and you're on a stage and you're thinking, God Rob's spoken a lot of sense, where do you believe, like maybe in the next five, ten years that you that most agents probably need to focus their efforts on? Um with your experience.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Just your your own your own. I I think is not getting not what I said before, not getting worked up in the noise of how people could change things or being these disruptors. It's it's about uh making sure that you are connected, looking at what advancements are happening in technology, making sure that you're you're relevant. Like I said, I think that's the most important thing. I think it's very easy to become complacent, you know, and allow other agents, new ones, to come in with their better prop tech and their different mindset to come and take you over. So you don't, you know, if you don't stay relevant, you're just gonna sink. Yeah, someone's gonna come and take you instead. But yeah, I don't think I I think I think things are gonna get very, very exciting over the next few years in agency with with the tech that we're seeing there.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

So I come to the end now, Rob. Yeah. Really appreciate it like you're coming on because that was uh a lot to unpack there. So uh just want to say, like, thanks for just opening up a bit more and hopefully you can inspire some other leadership uh people and people in business who might be going through that same process to maybe seek out the right relevant help they need. Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

No, thank you very much for having me on. Thanks for listening to this Estate Agency X podcast. Can you make sure that you're actually subscribed to this podcast channel if you liked the content? Uh, it helps us massively to get better guests, and it just helps us generally. So you might think you're subscribed, but just have a double check, whatever your um podcast platform of preference is, that you're actually subscribed, and then that way we can continue to grow the channel and get better and better guests for you.