500 Properties, One Lean Team (With Tracey Dumont)

In this episode of Estate Agency X, Tracey Dumont of Harris and Wood shares how the business has built a 500-property portfolio with just 1.5 team members managing it. It is a sharp conversation on what really drives sustainable growth in lettings: intentional process, clear standards and a culture that supports performance on her 25+ year career.

We also get into how to build a culture-first agency, why trusting your gut matters in leadership and recruitment, and how to bring accountability into the team without losing care, trust or connection. 

Follow the podcast and share this episode with another estate agent who wants to build a better business.

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Transcript

Meet Tracy And Her Journey

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On this episode of Aston T, I've got Tracy Demont from Harris Wood and uh 26 years in being in the letting industry, starting from being a letting negotiator in Brighton all the way up to actually open up Harris Wood eight years ago. We cover culture, kindness, um, accountability. So this is a really good episode, and I hope you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Estate in the CX, the UK's number one Estate Inity podcast discussing the future of a state entity, entrepreneurship and business. Host Mark Burgess and Rob Brady.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Tracy, welcome to the show. Hello, welcome. So anyone listening out there or anyone watching, um, Tracy, over to you. Um so, what arrives um you to be an agency today? How long ago, how long ago is this?

SPEAKER_03 0:50

27 years. No, I don't record that. A grandmother of lettings. Um, and it was really funny. I was working in, I was living in writing, and one of my friends was an area manager for countrywide at the time, and another couple of friends worked for her, and I just wanted a company car. So if I went to work for her, I would get a company car. So that's what I did. Um, I was interviewed and I was playing the role of property manager or negotiator, and property management did not appeal to me. Um, and so yeah, I I just became a negotiator and I worked in portion. The first month I had the worst month on record, no joke, so that was that was good for me. Um, but I just really enjoyed it, and I think um, you know, I I love the fact that I got to go to work every day, but I wasn't sat in the office. It was such a novelty that I could go out and use, but I can use the radio that I was doing that. Um and I think you know, I still say no days think, and the days just go so quickly literally making me miss it.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

And 27 years later, it's still like that. Um, and I still don't know anything about industry, there's still so much I have to learn. And I think you know that that was a thing for me, but yeah, it was um my first day was I don't think it was 23rd of December, I think it was. When my niece was born on that day, so that's how I remember the years as well. Although I did have to ask how old she was this year to remember how long I've been in a tea. Um but I remember my second day was the coaching workers' party, and I was sat between two of the directors by this you know green person sat there. Oh my god. Um but yeah, I yeah, that was in Brighton all around that area for quite a few years then.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Uh 27 years later.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yeah, here I am.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

What's your position and where you're from?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

So I live I live in Colchester. I live in Colchester now, and I am um one of the owners of Harris Hill Lettings um in Essex. We've got two lettings offices, one in Colchester, one in Whitton. Um we've been running for eight years now, eight years of December are just gone. Um and it's a really, really great business. I'm so proud of it. You know, it's a phenomenal business. Yeah, we've done really, really well. But you know, and I think um I mean not always I'm feeling better, but I'm not always very good at just sitting there and going, Wow, we're done. You know, and I think you know, in lettings, it's such a slow start. People that have ever set up in their own office, it's a much slower start than you realise and that anyone else realises. But when you get that momentum and it really starts to build it on all of a sudden, you know, you've got properties, change properties change, you know, forage properties and all of a sudden it's keep business, you know, it's a valuable business, and you know, and I think um yeah, I'm really proud of it. Um but you know, that I think as I've you know become my own boss and the business has grown, I've just become more ambitious. I've just you know wanted to do more, I've wanted to take more people and you know help more people. And I mean, you know, I think the reason that we you know we did it, that you know, that that's never changed, you know. So I just think I still love it. I probably love it more than I ever did, to be honest with you. I'm still saying you're hungry and passionate, you need just to do more.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Okay, so eight years of that. Yeah, 27 years. So uh first job, how long were you there for?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

I was at country wide for I want to say about eight years. So I haven't had over jobs, I was there for about eight years. Um and I I know again, I loved it. They were really, really good to me. I worked with really great people. I worked in Horsham and then Brighton, and then I went to South Sea. That was weird because I've never done any form of management, you know, like where I came very working class, and never pictured myself in that role. And I don't know what made me do it, but there was a vacancy that came out for the South Sea of the Letters Manager, and I applied, and it was 50 miles away from Brighton. And I literally don't know why I did it, but I thought I'm gonna apply for that. I was a senior name at the time, never managed people, and I got to the job amazing. And for three months I commuted the other day from Brighton to South City, and then I moved there. Um and with it, I met my best friend there. She was she was working in the sales office, and she kind of struck into the office, and I just thought I want her to be my friend, and I made her my friend, and here we are all these years later. But I literally you know moved there and I knew no one, I've never been to the place you know, you know, that I worked there. Yeah, I know, and I've done it a few times now to be fair, and I think I just like the idea of the kind of reinventure, and I don't know why, um, but I absolutely you know I loved it, and it became a really good business. And I was there for uh probably 18 months, two years, and then I came back to Brighton because when I left Brighton, I was senior edge, and I came back and then you know I was a manager and it was a really big office, so it was a really big task. And at the time, um where I'd worked in South Sea, you know, we just had we just had letters in the office of property management, and then in Brighton we had property management, and it was a standalone branch in letters, which was quite a rare back in the days anyway. Um, but a really, really big branch, and that was that was fantastic, I loved it. It was really hard work, and it went even from you know an an office of even myself negotiating a part-time advantage, you know, to separate people.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And being a being a Nick, going out, like you said, getting a radio and driving to interview and chatting to people, coming back, putting a radio and coming back, to then to then 250 miles. I used to do the developed course in um I know that you draw those like no miles, but to then managing people did it come naturally to you?

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Um probably not actually. You know, I definitely made some mistakes, you know, and now I did, you know, there were times when I was a lot sharper than I should have been, you know, I wasn't always very good at managing my temper when I want to speak to someone. Um and I look back at that time, you know, even feeding dynamics would be really uncomfortable because I'm thinking sometimes when I was probably a bit of a cow, to be fair. But you know, you're kind of learning, aren't you? No, I think that makes it right, but you know, I think people have seen I speak to the man's about the seventh egg, in our industry, the career path is training egg, an egg, feeding egg, assistant manager if there is a manager. And that it seems to be irrelevant whether or not you're suitable for that role. That is a career path. And just because you're a really good feeding egg or a really good assistant manager, it doesn't mean that you make a really good manager. And I think people just don't think about that. That's just a career path. I want to be a manager, and I think you know, I was not, you know, I've always worked with really good people around, I've always had really good people around me, you know, some of really good guidance, and I've always, you know, been able to just you know put my hand up and ask for help. Um so I definitely, you know, made some you know make you know the mistakes, you know, I'm sure I may think the correct house that she's horrible to either by that, but I'm sure that would happen. Um but I think as I've got older I become a much better manager because I understand myself more.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, because I think uh I've had people in putting senior decisions and they they'd go to options, they're either quite uh assertive because I need to dominate so you know my validation and control things, or you might have people who I you to keep saying to them like stop trying to be their friend and just just wondering why they you you get upset because you're just trying to be nice to them.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Yeah, and and I was definitely you know the first one for quite a long time. And I think also that does develop you at being a woman. Yeah. Because you know, I think back in in my day, you know, we're talking 20 odd years ago now, which is a long time ago, you know, you kind of felt like you had to be a bit of a ball breaker, you know, and to be a successful, you know, woman in business, you've got to be tough, you've got to be a bit of a bitch, and you've got to be all of those things. And that that I wasn't naturally like that, to be fair, you know, that's not me at my core.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Um the persona you had to put on.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, and I think I did become that person. I was very, you know, different at times in work and outside of work.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Um, but you know, and I think that was completely expected and accepted. Yeah, you know, being a woman in business can be tougher, you know, and I think I was, you know, obviously, you know, a lot younger then as well. So people, you know, wouldn't expect, you know, their manager to be a woman or you know, to be in charge. And that could be quite difficult. But I definitely, when I look back, I definitely felt that I had to be tougher, you know, um, and have a louder voice at times because I was a woman, which actually that's not the case anymore. You know, you know, being softer and being vulnerable, you know, and being kind is actually that is the, you know, that is, you know, what you want your MVP to be, right? You want them to be well-rounded, you want them to be, you know, a nice person. You know, whereas back in the day, you know, being nice was like, oh, that's a bit icky. You know, if someone said you were nice, it was like, well, who wants to be nice? You know, it it it was kind of frowned upon, wasn't it? But it's very much changed now. Um, but yeah, I definitely was that in the beginning, you know, and then I think I found that then having to have difficult conversations, I found really difficult because then I'd be the then I'd then I'd be really nice.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

And then no one's winning.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

And a real um And everyone then gets confused, like, yeah, where were the boundaries?

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Because I didn't know, but I'll never forget um a colleague of mine called Vik Ashgandi. He was he was fantastic, he was at heart. Um, and he was amazing. We were on a training course together, and he was really good at kind of having the straight conversations with people. And I said to him, just but how how do you do that? And he said, Well, you're just candid. And I didn't know what candid meant. And he said, You're just telling someone the truth. And that really stuck with me, and that was probably about over 20 years ago now, that conversation. And I remember it so clearly, and that was a real turning point for how I manage people. You know, I don't always get it right, of course not. But you know, the the way I view it now is if I'm having to have a difficult conversation with you and I'm being candid, I'm not saying I don't care about you, I'm just saying I don't like that behaviour. And I care about you enough to have a straight conversation with you, you know. Um, I always want people to know you know where they stand, you know, whether that's friends, family member, whatever. So having difficult conversations is actually the easiest way to do it, right? Yeah, but it's not easy to get to that. Yeah, it's such a you know, it's hard to get your head around that. But yeah, I just I'm a bit of a sponge, you know. I remember, you know, something that someone might have said, you know, 20 odd years ago or you know the other day, and I I kind of piece all these bits together and think, oh hang on, is that gonna work for me? But I'll never forget that from Birkash. That was a turning point.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

And so you were there for you were there for eight years, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

About eight years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And then and then what led you to decide I'm done with this corporate machine?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

No, so I had a couple of moves then. So after moving to Brighton, I'm I'm moved back to Brighton, I then had another move. Um so I worked in Worthing for a couple of years, and then you know, again, I wanted a complete change and I moved to Bristol for countrywide. Um, I hadn't, you know, I've never been there.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

And I went to work there. That was really good for me, actually, you know, because again, I knew no one, I'd never been there, you know, knew nothing about it. Um, and it was really tough, but it was also really, really good for me, you know, as well, you know, because again, completely out of my comfort zone. But then my mum and dad, you know, were getting a little bit older, they lived in Essex, and I just started every time I you know I went home and come back again, it was a four or five-hour round.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

My monk lived at Thornbury up in Bristol.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Crap journey, you're screwed. And I just thought, if anything happens to them, I just can't get there quick enough. So that was a bit of a worry. So I thought, okay, I need to, you know, I didn't want to live where they were living, but I wanted to live close enough. And one of my old uh directors, Stephenation, he was working at Heart at the time. So I emailed him and said, if anything ever comes up, please let me know. And it just happened to be a job available in Colchester. I've been really um, I don't want to say lucky, but you know, I've had quite serendipitous moments throughout my career where I reached out to someone at the right time, and that was one of those. So I managed, you know, to get that job and I moved to Hart and I was there for about nine nine and a half years. You know, and again, you know, I had really great times there, they were really good to me. Without Heart, I wouldn't be in a grown stone.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Did you enter a similar sort of role?

SPEAKER_03 13:15

I was manager there, manager there, you know, and I would in my mind, you know, I'd made it. I got a company cart that was a BMW and I was like, Was it white? No, I didn't have a white no, no, no with a with the stilettos, no, just I think mine was a blue one actually, but I felt like I'd made it. I had a BMW, I was balling. So, but then I had, you know, and I was quite happy, you know, that point, you know, you know, become manager, you know, that was it for me. Um, but then I had we had Andrew Ben come in, who was our managing the managing director then, and my area manager Darren Barney, and they, you know, kind of encouraged slash, you know, pushed me, you know, to kind of want a bit more, really. And then I I became senior manager, I was then put forward for the area manager programme, become area director, you know, I mean, all of this over a long period of time. And it was, there were some really uncomfortable things I'd have to do presentations, which is not natural to me at all. Um, but they really pushed me, they saw something in me that I hadn't seen in myself. And it was, you know, and and I loved it. It was really, really hard work. Um, but you know, but I loved it. I was, you know, looked after there and I had some really great times. But then I left there and I went to work at Connell's for a year and a half. That was an interesting thing because I took over an area that hadn't been doing as well. Um, yeah, and I was there for about 18 months. And then I just happened to be out one night in Colchester in a place called the Cube, hadn't been there for years, and I bumped into Shane Harris of Harrisonwood. And you know, um again, a serendipitous moment, he hadn't been out in years, he had a family, and he hadn't been to that bar in years, and I hadn't been to that bar in years, and we just bumped into each other and I just said to him, you know, congratulations, him and Mark had announced that they were going to set up, you know, Harrisonwood uh set agency. And he said, I want to talk to you. And I said, Okay, you know, what about? And he said, I want you to set up lanes for us. And I was like, Oh, okay. I'd never ever ever thought about working for myself. That was you know, completely out of my warehouse. Um, and I was like, okay, I'll go and meet him because I love Shane, you know, I'll go and meet him, you know, see what he's got to say, you know, but I won't do it, I absolutely won't do it. Had this meeting with him and Mark, and I remember driving out there and going, I can't not do this. And I rang to my niece and she was like, How did it go? I said, Well, I'm in trouble. She said, Well, I said, Because I can't not do this, because if I don't do it, someone else will do it, and I will live with that regret. Yeah, I'm not someone who has regret at all, you know. But the thought that I'd be sitting back, you know, in my corporate job and someone would have taken my opportunity, I just couldn't. So two weeks later, I was like, Yeah, I'm in, I'm in. And at that point, they weren't going to be doing lettings for a couple of years, and they were like, right, okay, you know, let's do it then. So behind the scenes, you know, I you know, I was saying, you know, thing up the bank accounts, you know, everything making us all out. And I'd never done anything like that in my life. I don't know how I did it. You know, if someone said, How'd you set up a business? I couldn't tell you. But I just, you know, kind of learnt, you know, learnt as I went. Um, yeah. And I didn't, it was really weird because I'm one of these people, you know, I might struggle, you know, what to buy for lunch or what to have for dinner. But the big decisions I find really easy to make. The really big ones, I make them and then that's it. And I made that decision nine years ago, and I haven't once thought, is it gonna work? Or you know, there's never once been a minute of doubt. I've never, you know, never thought that I wasn't gonna succeed. I just knew it was really strange. Um and yeah, we then opened up on the 1st of December.

Leaving Corporate For A Startup Bet

SPEAKER_02 16:31

And what what what did it feel like going from like you maybe your daily yeah, what okay, first things, what did you learn for that um the heart um area directorship program you went through? Going from a lettance manager to then running an area, then going to work for another corporate low-performing area, yeah, and trying to work with the people there, yeah. So then coming out of that and having no one to manage. Like how did that what did you think? Okay, well, I I I like what what did you probably take from those um those years in that that you thought, okay, well, I want to I wanna work, I wanna use these? Was there anything that you thought would would would have gold?

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah, I think one of the well the biggest thing was um when you're uh you when you're in an area role, you're not r really in control of an awful lot. If you work for someone, then you're not in control of an awful lot. You think you are, in my view, but you know, but actually you're not. Um, you know, I mean, um I go to see my staff, you know, all the officers, you know, and that you know, they'd be unhappy about stuff. But in reality, I couldn't facilitate any change at all. I was essentially, you know, a go-between.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Mediator.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yeah, you know, and that that that was really heavy for me. I remember, you know, I won't say you know which one, but every single month on payday, staff salaries would be wrong. Every single payday, I would dread payday, um, you know, because I knew my staff would call and they would have been paid incorrectly. And then, you know, I tried to sort it, and then, you know, sometimes it would be no, they've got to wait till next month. I'm just like, you can't treat people like that. That was, I hated that. Um, we weren't always, you know, providing a good service, yet we wanted the you know, the high figures, um, you know, the high fees. And I kind of, when I look, when I look back, I felt that I was becoming someone that was also about deals, deals, deals, deals, instructions, instructions, instructions. It wasn't about, you know, my people or or the service. And I didn't like who I was becoming. Um, you know, there was a lot of good, you know, working with corporates, you know, the the structure is fantastic, and I've taken a lot of that with me. The the you know, the career path is fantastic, you know, and that's something that I need to work on in the smaller business. Um, but the thing that was a big thing for me was it really is a numbers game and not for the right reasons. You know, I don't care what anyone says, it is, you know, and I've worked at three of the bigger ones. Uh yeah, I can say that from the place of authority, you know, it is like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Um did you fight, do you think that, you know, you said like you did little rebirths here and there? Yeah. Was it almost like a cleanse of trying to find the actual core of who you were?

SPEAKER_03 19:02

You know, it it it probably was actually, because I think when you're area as well, you're not really in lettings, you know. I could have been area really for any, you know, for anywhere, you know. I mean, I was one of those people that when I was an area manager, if my style were off sick, I would go in and run a branch. I mean, I was a unicorn in that respect because no one else, you know, would do that. And I would be like, well, of course you should do that. How else am I offering any kind of support? But in the main, I, you know, I could have been area manager for a Chris company, you know, really, because you're not really in the day-to-day running of it. And I actually really loved lettings, I really love that connection of it. Um, you know, so it's so I really missed that actually. But when I opened up Have some Wood, you know, it was a complete 180, you know, so there I you know was in the background. And I had to then start with just me. I had a laptop, I had a mobile phone, I didn't have a desk, I didn't have, you know, a phone, you know, I had nowhere to sit, I had nothing at all. It was just me. And I'd never done a cold start before either. So that was completely new. I mean, I went into it really boldly, really, probably without, you know, not an awful lot of clue, but just to go, right, I'm just gonna do it. So that was that was quite testing. And there were times when I thought, I'm not sure, you know, how am I doing this? But then something I did when um when Harrison would launched, you know, me on their um Facebook page, Shane wrote this really wonderful write-up about me and he called me the Lionel Messi of the Lakers World. And there was one day where I was thinking, you know, thinking, oh my god, what am I doing? So I went back and read that and I reminded that's who you are, you know, because you can forget it's very isolating at first because it was just me, you know, and I was going out, you know, door knocking, you know, trying all different things, you know. I had to have a complete mindset, you know, change most days, and then I had to remind myself who I actually was. You know, because I think in sales, especially, you know, well, when you're door knocking, you know, it's all how many numbers did you get? How many instructions you know did you get? Well, that's not that's not realistic, is it? You know, how many times, you know, have you ever gone out door knocking and come back with four landlord numbers and three instructions? It doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

So you have to have a complete mindset change on managing your own expectations, on what really you want to gauge. And that mindset change I had, you know, I actually have today, you know, with my guys, you know, you know, the big thing for me is all I can control is, you know, in that moment when I was going at door knocking, all I could control is how many doors I knocked, how many people I've spoken to, and how much information I would gather. So I targeted myself, I'm gonna gather five bits of new information today. And that might be that there's five new balls, or I've spoken to a neighbour, I know that that property is now vacant. So that was a win, you know, there's two more bits of new information there. So I yeah, I I then started to get my wins in different ways. So when you that when you then feel like you're winning, however small that might seem, you're you're winning every day, right? You know, as opposed to thinking, I haven't spoken to any landlords, that's a loss. No, no, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

It's a lot obviously like harder growing that because it's not like you're knocking on a door that's got someone in it. It's rare who's who's gonna sell their home.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Yeah.

Early Growth Tactics That Worked

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Lettins is like you're most of the time you're knocking on a an empty door, yeah. Or potentially tenants there to try and see if you can source information out.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Um, and it can be quite a a very draining uh resource of your time and energy just to try and get that going. Yeah. So like what was what was like what was the milestone of saying like hitting your first fifty properties?

SPEAKER_03 22:35

I think that um I think you know, to be fair, I think so. We opened in December, first December. And I think a milestone for me was we um by the end of March that month, we the the income that we generated covered our costs. Wow, and that was in that was in about three or four months.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

So that you know, from that month onwards, we you know, we can't we've always done that.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

So I think you know, I can't remember the first 50, I must admit, but I do remember for that moment though, as a there's a great actually just freeze rephrase it. What's the magical moment? We're discussing that.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

That was yeah, that was a magical moment for me. Another one was um because our approach, you know, was different, you know. So instead of you you're sending out like a you know generic letter to call me or whatever, I would, and I I've got terrible handwriting, but I that would do a handwritten note, you know, handwritten letter on Harrison Woodheaded paper. And I thought of small things like you know, when you put your business card, I bought rose gold paper clips. And I don't know why, but just I thought, let's just stand out in different ways. And we still do that now, you know. When my you know guys do their business generating, we put rose gold paper clips on there because it just stands out a little bit more, it makes it look a bit nicer, you know. We you know, we we we try to make it about us when we write anything, it's in our language, you know, it's not in you know the generic stuff, it's as if I'm speaking to that person, and that kind of that the handwritten letters really, really helps.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

I mean, like we had like you know, Kel Kel had a flat that we had empty for a bit of a time and selling it, and then we put up for let and then you get the letters come through. How do you stand out? And like you open them up, it's like bills, you open them up, and it's they all looked exactly the same. It's like that's that's even from the same company that was letter sourcing company that comes from. Yeah, or you've got this random estate agent I've never fucking heard of. Yeah, from a big picture.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Just chucking you thinking, like, yeah, you'd I don't know who you are, but you know, so that's what I did a lot of. Um, and I was really fortunate actually because a lot of neighbours, you know, I'd have good conversations with neighbours, and there was one that really stands out, and we've still got the property today, you know, eight years later. Um, they um I spoke to the neighbour, and she happened to know the owner because his mum and dad lived there. So she called him and she got him to call me. So I got the I got the extraction that way.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

There was another one where it was a there were three flats above a chip shop. So we called the chip shop and they passed the the details across. There was um there were three flats, and we still got them today, and there were three flats in Colchester High Street above um a bedroom store. So Connor went in and spoke to them. He actually said, Oh, my my aunt's looking for a flat. So she passed the details across. And because we were a new independent, the the company loved that, you know, as well. And I think because when we were going out, we you know, because from 1st of December it was just me, and then the first of February Connor joined. So we did most of our appointments together, and they were meeting me, you know, as a business owner, and they were, you know, meeting Connor, who, whilst he, you know, he's not the business owner, he's he loves it as much, you know, it's as important to him. So they could see how much we loved it and how much it meant to us, you know, and and I think people really, really love that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

So um I'd also like to chatting to the neighbours, and if the neighbour actually likes you, you're going to a winner, aren't you? They'd go, I'd rather I'd rather her trying to find the tenant than the agent I'd probably deal with because it's obviously in their vested interest, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Yeah, but that neighbour, we rent her daughter's properties out even today, you know. So, you know, um when we did a community thing recently where that that that neighbour's daughter nominated her mum because her mum's a foster carer, so they you know they won a community prize for us. So it just comes full circle, but you know, and I think it's you know it's a cliche, but it really does matter to me. I really do care about you know the people that we come into contact with, you know, and you know, we we don't do you know things, you know, you know, just to put our name out there, we do things because actually we want to do nice things for people, you know, and be part of the community. And I think having our name out there, you know, and me getting out there, you know, in the beginning, you know, like I did. People love the thought of helping me out, you know, and I think that was a that you know that was a really big part of it for us.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And then so so um eight years, yeah. What's the what's the size of the portfolio now?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

It's around 500 now.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

500, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah, which is you know, I mean, it's it's difficult to gauge for me, you know, because I'm one of those people where I'm always I just want more, more, more, more, more. But then I'll have conversations, you know, with other agents. I spectrum to an agent last year, they'd been running for 17 years and they had 19 properties. So then I'm like, oh okay, we're done all right then, actually. You know, we have two offices.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah. So um and what was it to the the the timeline for the over the eight years? So when did the second office come in?

Scaling During Lockdowns And Expansion

SPEAKER_03 27:16

That was on the first day of the second national lockdown. Fucking hell. Yeah. I remember we opened it and it was like, oh, okay, cool. So yeah, now it's closed. Now it's closed, yeah. So we were still able to work though. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so agents were still able to work. I mean, during the first lockdown, we we didn't furlough anyone. There was only four of us in anyway, but we didn't furlough anyone. And because of our infrastructure, you know, because we're a smaller company, we could, you know, we had really great technology in place anyway. But we we were already doing virtual tours before then. So we we continued trading. We took all of our computers home, so we could just plug in at home, we had soft phone features on our mobiles, we did internet bank bank transfers anyway. So our infrastructure meant that we still carried on trading, yeah. And we got so busy and then, but when we came out of there had to employ someone else, yeah. So that was that was a real turning point for us. Um we were only only closed for two months anyway. So, but yeah, second lockdown happened. We opened we'd opened on that day, and it was like, well, you know, we're just gonna, we're just gonna, you know, do our best. That year was quite difficult because I was, you know, uh still kind of overseeing a lot of Colchester, but running Whitam as well. But then by the start of the second sorry, by the start of year two, we then brought in a manager, Luke, who is just I mean, it's just come on leaps and bounds. It's crazy how much that you know that that office has grown. And we've just literally taken on our fourth person there. It started yesterday, you know. So yeah, I mean, you know, that's just been extraordinary. In total for lettings. So we've got four in Whitham and we've got eight in Colchester. And we're just about to take another person's that we know.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Lucky 13.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Yeah, exactly. Very lucky 13. So yeah, we've got another a lady starting on the first of February as well.

Hiring For Kindness And Trust

SPEAKER_02 28:57

So And um I we you know, for any of the podcast listeners out there, uh, Tracy and I have got a nice relationship because we've sort of been working with each other for the last sort of year or so. Um and I've always been impressed with the little things you talked about, you know, you do for Christmas and and we've had Shane and Mark on here, so it's not just you doing it your side, and they're randomly doing sales and that it's a whole company that you guys have operated under. So, and what I I mean, even before I even met any of you, I looked to your socials and there you do, I was like, I can't fucking wait to work for this company. Yeah. They are, if I was back in agency, I would be I'd be doing the 50 of barbecue and going working up there and saying to Kel. You still can. Yeah, going to Kel, look, I'm I'm I don't know what it is, but I've just I've got this home. Draw on, yeah. Um so recruiting, yeah, finding people, and caring for people and nurturing people is so fucking hard. Or it's scene is so hard in this industry, trying to find the talent. You said Luke got his guy on in there. What was the first chapter you took on? Connor. Connor, yeah? Yeah. You talk about Connor all the time, yeah. And he's eight years later with you still now, and you talk to you talk about him in such a way that it's not like I'm the boss, these are the guys that work for me, no different than what you thought probably in the corporate days of just being cogs. Yeah. Like how how was the recruitment process going from one to tw to the 13th now?

SPEAKER_03 31:18

So I think with Connor, so I've known Connor for when I was at Heart, he worked me there, he was a training egg for me there. And then he came to to Connell's.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Let me guess, he was that he was one of those people. I've I've had those hit that you you know that they're fucking gold. Yeah. And you were like, ah, yeah, that I'm you need to come with me.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Yeah, he was that, and it was funny actually, he he won't mind me saying this because we tell everyone this. He worked at head office for heart, and he was he came down because um the property uh uh visits were out of control, as you would imagine. So he came, he came, you know, down to go through how we sorted him out, and he said to me, Oh, if you ever get you know a job in branch, let me know. So someone resigned, and I thought, Connor. Yeah so I left him a message and um he called me back the next morning, and I think he was 19, he's 30, 32 this year. He was 19, and he said, I'm so sorry I didn't call you back yesterday. I was with I was having dinner with my nan last night, and I thought, if your 19-year-old boy is having dinner with his nan, then he's is I'm good with that. Because you know, for me, I kind of think I look at it if you're close with your family and if you're a young person and you're making time for your grandparents, you are a good, kind person. And if you're a good, kind person, then I can do the rest, right? That that was my view. So he came in for an interview, and when I tell you, it was the worst interview I've ever had. We laugh about it now. He couldn't look at me, he was physically shaking. I had to literally have to advance in the interview, and I was like, fantastic, because how the recruitment process was at heart, it was quite prescribed. You have to fill out all these forms, etc. And then if the manager liked him, then I had to get my director to like him, otherwise, it was an o-go. And he was it was honestly awful this interview, but I just knew in my gut, I knew. So I said to his line manager at the time, because he worked in a different department, and I said, You've got to help him, because I can't help him anymore from here. If he's not good with him, then he's not getting in. And I I want to recruit him, so please, please help him. This is what he needs help on. So she did, and he, you know, and he he got through and we and I employed him. But he was, you know, he was he was just a young lad, you know, but there was just something about him, and I think I've I've seen him grow up, you know, from boy to man. And even from him joining Harrison Wood, he he's a completely different person, you know. And and with Luke, Luke had worked, we hadn't worked together, but he'd worked at heart, you know, years ago as well. And he applied for a different role. He applied, we were looking for a listing, you know, a list at the time in Colchester, and he applied for that because he just really wanted to work for us. And I said to him, that role's not for you because you need to be a manager, and that role, you'd have to work for someone, and that role is not for you, just bear with me. And then I knew I was going to recruit forward with him.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

So how'd you know that he was suitable for man? What did you see in him?

SPEAKER_03 34:04

He'd already been a manager and in a different company, but he just had he was just a really kind person, um, funny, you know, just really and a nice kind of gentle way about him. You don't get me wrong, you know, he's tough as well. But I don't know, c kindness for me is is is the winner. If I if I think that you're somebody who's going to be really kind, then you know, then I'm sold on that to be fair. And you know, really Connor Luke a good cop and I'm a bad cop. That won't surprise you, but but I just saw something in him, you know, and I just and I just thought he really he really wanted an opportunity where he could make it his own. And Whitam, although it'd been open for a year, it needed someone who wanted that. And he it was just him that first year, and he grafted so he grafted so hard. And our view was like, right, we'll get someone at the end of the year, and he'd done such a great job on his own that we that we brought someone in earlier, and that was Daisy, who is an absolute dream. I mean, she's she came in as an apprentice, she's now a senior next, she's amazing. Um, but yeah, there was just something in Luke, and um, you know, what makes me really proud, you know, is if I'm on holiday, then you, Connor and Luke, work really well together. You know, I don't even know what conversations you know they're having, but you know, then there was a scenario while I was away where Connor was really busy, but for some integration, you know, hit that someone needed to do something for him. And even without asking him, Luke just messaged him and said, I've done that for you, mate. And I'm just like, my work here is done, you know, these two are looking out for each other without me having to ask them to. They're just such a really good team, you know, together, and they're different, but but also very similar in their outlooks. And I think, you know, I just need people that are going to be really kind because if they're kind to their their people, and they are, then they're gonna be kind to our clients and to the tenants, and that's really you know, I think a lot of our successes, we really do focus on looking, you know, being kind to people, and that sounds like a cliche, but no, but that's completely different to 19% of the industry.

Money Fear And Leading On Output

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Exactly, if not 99% of the industry, yeah. Especially when it comes to the letting side, because I I get that side to it, because you have to be more emotionally invested within the letting's process. Yeah, because the long-term as well as the process because you just can't just put anyone in there, fucking wind them up because you can't kick them out. Yeah. So you gotta you gotta create a great relationship, and you can only create a great relationship if if there is kindness involved within that. Yeah. Um, okay, so 13 members of staff, two offices. Yeah. Um so so um what what would you what would you say is your what's been your main learnings in those eight years?

SPEAKER_03 36:42

So when we when when I was running Whittam, that was I'd say that was probably about in the in the August, September, um, Colchester was, you know, paying for Colchester and Whittam. And I, you know, and I'm always someone, you know, is very mindful, you know, of what money's coming in, what money's going out, you know, because I've got people to pay, etc. And um there was a time, there was probably about a month time, there was about a month period where um paying for two branches, I had a corporation tax bill come in, and I was worried I couldn't pay staff. I mean, I could, when I look back, I could, but it kept me awake. I had was having sleepless nights, and it was I I was it was affecting my judgment in terms of fees and business. And I remember it being really hard on Conor and Jack at the time, you know, and say, You got up at fees out, we've got to do this, we've got to do that. And I'd done a 180 on stuff, you know, and it and I wasn't acting, you know, with any kind of um control, I was panicking, and I knew I was panicking, and I knew that I was acting a bit irrationally, but it came from I I was I was worried. So I spoke to HMRC, sorted that out, took out a personal loan, put that into the business, and I've never worried about it since. But that that moment in time, I had it was the only time in the business where I've worried about money and worried about, oh my god, can I pay, can I pay stuff, can I do this, can I do that? And I've truly never worried about it since. But that was one of the hardest parts for me, I think, you know, that fear. But then I think if you're worrying about the money, then you're I'm not worrying about the business. Whereas now I focus on the output, you know, and I say this to my guys all the time: all you can control is what you do. You can't we can't control anything else. But if we control what we do and we focus on what will we do and we all stay in our lane, whatever that looks like, then the byproduct of that will be business will come. If you might you might have the odd, you know, month up and down, but business will come if you focus on output in a really, really good way. So that was the biggest thing for me. That that was really scary.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

And um I know I I know obviously a lot that we've been discussing. So where do I want to go next for this? Because there's a lot for listeners out there as well, because I think um the team you've got, right? And you told me you've got 500 properties. Yeah. How many people manage that portfolio?

SPEAKER_03 39:00

So we have uh um one property manager for Colchester.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

One property manager.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Yeah. Um at the moment, you know, she doesn't do she doesn't do deposits, but it's the only thing she doesn't do. And we have a an apprentice property manager that started for Whittam yesterday. So Rachel is our property management queen in Colchester, and so she probably manages about 350 properties. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Wow. Um I think Because we remember we had we had that conversation, you were in Accelerate, and we had a brief discussion about it.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

And they were talking about like when does the next uh when do we need to how much did does your and you're like 350? Yeah, and then it looked at me like I was mad. And we all looked at it, I was like, fucking hell, like you're lying, and you're like, no, no, this is that's it.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

How like how?

SPEAKER_03 39:49

So I think um we're really we we don't have systems in for system place, you know, like we we don't we don't do something just because you know everything else has intent everything has intention, I think. Um it's all pretty streamlined. We've got we have got really good tenants and we've got really good landlords. Yeah, we've got really good contractors, and the thing that we've always focused on is making sure we look after landlord tenants and contractors. Because if you look after those three, then the management becomes a whole lot easier, right? Yeah, um, so I just think it really it really does.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

The bit I used to get pissed off the most with is we used to find good tenants. I just say to the next, it's not just about letting it, it's about finding the right tenant for that property. Yeah. But if they're an arsehole, we're not putting them in there.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yeah, and they're gonna be difficult to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

And the same with the landlords. The bit that I used to get really frustrated was the contractors. Yeah. I was like, why have you not uploaded the invoice? Yeah. Like they're wanting fucking payment for them. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

And why shouldn't they have payment?

SPEAKER_02 40:43

And they would get annoyed.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

And it would cause conflict and friction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

And then they're like, you know, ours are brilliant, we're really lucky. But you but you know, again, that all comes down to our you know, the relationship building. We've got we have really open, honest conversations with our contractors. If we have someone, you know, someone that's not happy about something, then we will have an honest conversation with them, you know. There's you know, then there's none of this, or we're not gonna work with them. If that kind of stuff doesn't happen. Um I I mean, as a result, kind of going off track slightly, our arrears are like I can count on one hand.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Which is unheard of, you know, um in this industry. So but we've always won that really tight.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

But I think But so how do you without giving your secrets away, because that's like 350 property at one person, like when you say the processes have been tight, like m most agents I speak to say they've got like a system on their property management side that just basically has a rear section that says these are the these are the outstanding yeah properties that you chase in.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Or you do the bank reconciliation and there's these ones outstanding. So like, how is how is your process tighter?

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Because I think what a lot of people do is people will hide behind the system, right? And they will they will email this email that we pick up the phone.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

I actually as we're sat here thinking about it, I think that is a big thing. We have telephone calls with people, and that makes everything so much quicker. Because, you know, if you've got an arrears issue or whatever, whatever that might be, and you send an email, well, I'm not I want an insert, I want to know now anyway, but you know, when someone says soon as possible, soon as possible for me is immediately now, whereas as soon as possible for someone else is next Tuesday. You know, so I think we we're really good on the phone and we drum that into our guys, you know, and I think actually, as we're saying thinking about that, I think that is a big part of it. We we're we're very you know reactive, but you know, in it, but in the right way, you know, in as much as we'll just pick the phone up straight away. It won't be a few.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

But what's crazy about that is you would just think that that would be more time consuming. Yeah. Because it's easier to send an email, get onto the next scene. Yeah, but isn't it? Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah, I don't think it is. A phone call that might be five, ten minutes long, might think that's a long period of time, but that resolves uh a trial of seven bouncing emails, tennis emails coming back to get to the same resolution. Yeah. I used I 100% so relate to that because I used to say to them, like, why to a property owner, why why we just want to pick up the phone?

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Why are you sending another email? Yeah. Just get fucking resolution. But it's it's fear of Do you think do you think how you manage your teams um supports them with being able to pick up the phone call to get the outcome?

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Yeah, and I think I mean Connor and Luke manage their their teams, and they both do that, you know. So I think they're they're really good leaders of their own business, you know, because ultimately they run their own businesses, you know, as a branch. And I think they're both fantastic role models. Um, you know, and it's not a case of, you know, you know, do as I say, don't do as I do. They lead by example and they do all the things, and they and I think because they do that, they get resolutions really quickly, you know. So their guys can be, oh actually, yeah, that you know, that does work really quickly, you know. So I think um, you know, and I think one thing you have to think that I've been thinking about this a lot, you know, lately in terms of like training staff and all of that. You know, you tell them to do it, so you expect it to be done that way, but that's not always the case. You have to keep reminding, you have to just keep showing it's constant show and tell, and they're both really good at that, you know. And I think um their guys, and again, they can have very clear, direct conversations with their team members. Um, and there's such respect, they both of them, you know, have so much respect, you know. But we do employee of the month, employee of the year, and they both want employee of the year this, you know, this year for their branches, you know, because their guys respect them so much, and I think um so they they can garner that kind of respect, you know, and get their guys to do what you what they want them to do.

Culture Traditions That Build Loyalty

SPEAKER_02 44:34

So so um I'm conscious because I could I know we could probably talk for ages with the that you touched on that point, right? You've got a fabulous culture from how you operate. I can see it from an outset. How you both how all three of you talk, yeah. The conversations I had with you as well, like give a sense of listeners out there. So, like what we were having this conversation for Christmas, right? Yeah, and you said uh one of the team members has just joined us, and the other team member was saying Christmas at Harrison Wood is like you're gonna love this. Yeah, like most other industries, you you think you're fucking working in a toy shop or something like that, not an estate MC office, right? So like. Has culture always been at the forefront of it and these sort of things. So tell us like little things that you probably do. So uh employee of the month. Yeah. How does that work?

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Employee of the month. So we we have um end of month uh meet end of end of month meetings in each office, you know, for sales and lettings, and everyone votes for their person. And the good thing is they vote face to face, you know, so they can you know hear them say something nice about them. So they do that they win employee of the month. And we've got like a wheel that they spin and they can you know win Primat voucher in Nando's or whatever. So that's really nice. So they do that every single month. Um, we do employee of the year, and in lettings, you know, because obviously Whittam is a smaller branch, etc. So they all vote for someone in Colchester, someone in Whittam, so they can all you know give each other you know some nice feedback. And I really love that to be fair. So, yes, we do that. Um, we do things like you know, on people's birthdays, we do, you know, nice birthday presents. There's always cakes involved for you know, for us, it's always at the collin caterpillar cake, is our thing. Um Christmas time, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Going for like for the for the for what you said, like it was a fucking Sunday, yeah, you were going around getting these crackers that you decided to do, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:35

So that was another thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Yeah, like like stuff like that, because that I'm I'm a massive, massive, massive advocate for this.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

That you if you get the get the teams really you see them for the humans that work within the brand than just an employee or a member of the tea staff, your staff, or that's an employer of mine.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Yeah, they're just my people.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Yeah, your people, yeah. So, like what does that what did you do? Just run through that story.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

So, um I I started this quite a few years ago now. So the first of December is you said she Harrison Wood Letting's birth date, birthday, I said yes. And we love Christmas, Harrison Wood. So the 1st of December is the start of Harrison Wood Christmas. So that means that you know, anytime from that onwards, people can wear Christmas jumpers every day. And some people do wear them every single day. And a few years ago, I started to I thought, you know, I'll get presents for people, you know. So I started off quite small, you know, they're an advent calendar. It's always advent calendars, and people get Easter eggs as well. But a few years ago, I thought, I know, I'm gonna get everyone personalised stockings. So I got I got them made, got them, and I started doing this in about September. So um I thought, okay, I'm gonna get personalised stockings made, and then I'm gonna fill them up with bits. So I was ordering um Adam Calendars, um, chocolates, had Harrisonwood baubles made. This year I'd had so that we got all the stockings, so that they had what did what was in there? There was, you know, obviously an orange, a chocolate orange, scratch cards, all of these things, you know, like you know, little silly toys, all of those things. Um we make sure that the Harrisonwood, you know, windows are done because we have like window decorations by the 1st of December. Yeah. And it just so happened that the 1st of December was a Monday, I was at the um training with you guys, so I wasn't going to be in that day. So the day before on the Sunday, I got up and I hand delivered every stocking to everyone. So it was on their desk when they got in in the morning with their advent calendar and all the little treats. I also like bought little treats of the office that was, I don't know, some chocolates, mince pies, you know, you know, some some kind of like tree chocolates, all that kind of stuff. So that was in the office as well. And I hand delivered them to every person's desk ready so when they got in on the Monday, that was there ready for them.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

And like where where does that come from though?

SPEAKER_03 48:56

I I don't know. I think I just love doing it.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

I think you think kindness is a main thing that you that you really install within the company.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

But kindness with with accountability.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

And then this nurturing element to it.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Yeah, I I don't know where that comes from. I think you know, I mean I think I've always been quite a nurturing person. You know, I was an aunt when I was 10, so I've always had young people in my life. I don't have children of my own, but I've got a lot of nieces and nephews who I, you know, adore, and I think I've just naturally been that kind of person. But I've always thought someone years ago, I had I've I had this thought in my mind because someone young who worked in in sales wasn't didn't work for me, but was treated really badly by the manager, and it just really triggers something in me. And my view is if I employ someone, I have a duty to make sure that they feel safe, protected, and looked after in the workplace, you know, and as you know, you you you start to you know care about these people, you know, that extends outside of that, you know, and that doesn't mean that I'm soft on people, that doesn't mean you know that that you know they get telling off that you know if they misbehave, but it does mean that that doesn't mean that I don't love them. Tough life is still love, and it doesn't mean that if I have to tell them off, I stop caring about them. It's because I care about them that I do it. So I just think for me, I've I've got all these people that work for me, you know, and for sales team, and I want to make sure that they feel happy and safe and they enjoy work. And a few years ago, uh when I first did it, one of the lads said, I've never had a stocking before. And I just thought, wow, we've done that, you know. And I just it's really it is a it's a ball leg, I'm not gonna lie, you know, my and it was you know I was just in the process of having to move myself, been on holiday, etc. And and I just thought, I couldn't do without this, but I know how much they love it, and to me, that is worth every bit of hard work because you know, hearing like Meg said to Rachel you know a few months ago, yeah, you she was one who said, Oh, I can't wait, you know, can't wait till you experience Harrison, you know, Christmas Harrison Wood, Harrison Wood. And the fact that she'd said that, I was like, Oh, that's why I do it. That's exactly why I do it, you know, because they look forward to that, they get excited about that. And if I can make them happy in that moment, then it's like, well, why would why wouldn't you want to do that? Why wouldn't you want to make someone else happy? I just don't understand that. So, you know, it's always been my thing. And I think, as I say, Easter eggs. I mean, when I bought all it, it was funny this year, the when I bought all of the the advent calendars, there was about 50 advent calendars, and I walked out of Sainbus and a little girl went, Wow, my joint piled up with um advent calendars. But you know, it's the same for Easter. I am I need to get a little outfit. Um, but yeah, I just love it, you know. I really do, you know, and when those messages come through in the morning, I mean it's a shame I wasn't there this year, but you know, I just get a lot of joy from that, you know, and like things like the the Christmas crackers. I I honestly I was so annoyed with myself because just before Christmas and I was like, we had a target, we wanted to hit a million pounds of income. I was like, right, I need everyone, you know, to be in. We've got to let these properties. So I just thought, let's make it a bit fun. I'll let's do let's do something. And Connor said, Oh, why don't we, you know, like have Christmas crackers? And I was like, brilliant, I'd buy some Christmas crackers, you know, put some vouchers inside. Well, I couldn't find anything, could I? So I was like, okay, well, I'll I'll make some Christmas crackers, right? So I ordered these Christmas cracker packs and they arrived and they're flat packed. They were literally flat-packed Christmas crackers. And I am not someone who's crafty, I'm not creative. And I literally sat there three nights in a row making 36 flat-pack Christmas crackers. But they loved them, you know, like everyone, you know, could win them, you know, whether it was an apprentice or property manager, they could all win them, you know. They, yeah, they they just loved it. And that's why I do it, you know, because it, you know, we expect a lot from people, right? I want them to work hard, but I also want them to have fun with it, you know, and I tend to do treats more if they haven't had a good week, you know. I don't always do rewards just because they've done well, or sometimes do it if they've had a tough week.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, because I think I think that's like a good a good way to work on it, because it's no different than having like, you know, I see to some agents and they say they only have one-to-ones when when the shit it's a fan. Oh no, then it's then it puts pressure on on the individual because they're like, oh fucking, I'm gonna be managed again. Yeah. And like no different than the treats. Like I say to people, don't come to me when we're doing coaching when you've completed it, but not come to me when you've not done it.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Because the coaching is the most powerful coaching is when you haven't done it, and then we work for the case.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

That's when you need the help, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Rather than just going ticked off, ticked off. So to be able to have an environment where even in the most shittiest periods of time, you've got the leaders behind you backing you and saying, right, let's go, yeah, hear some stuff, or just get a little bit of excitement going.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

Yeah, if there's a call out, you know, we're going to, you know, go buy pick a mix, or I'm such a feeder, you know, I'm always but you know, lunch, coffees or whatever, you know, all those kind of things. Because for me, that is that's my love language, right? Actually care, you know, caring for people is is my you know, my way of saying, I got you, you know, you know, it can whether I'm sending someone a book or whatever, that is my way of saying, I see you, okay, I'm here, you know. And I I've just always been that way. And uh, yeah, I think, you know, when you've got young people, they need that, right? You know, at home as well as at work. So yeah, I like to be that safe space, I think.

How To Reach Tracy And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_02 54:15

So uh I could continue to talk. I know we have a link told off right. So um, if anyone's listening now, they're going, do you know, I'd love to pick your brains a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Well, where's best for them to contact you? Where do you usually hang out?

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Um, my email. Yeah. So Tracy T-R-A-C-E-Y, don't forget the E, at harrisonwood.co.uk. Or I'm on LinkedIn as well. You can find me on there.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

And the spelling of the surname?

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Um, there's no surname on my email, so it's just Tracy. Oh, sorry. Oh, yeah, that would help. Um D-U-M-O-N-T. It's an unusual one. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Right, appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Pleasure, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

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