Fix Yourself, Then the Business (With Ross Final)

In this episode of Estate Agency X, Ross Final from Christopher Pallet, shares how 26 years in estate agency shaped his views on leadership, growth and what it really takes to build a strong independent business. From corporate beginnings to ownership, buyouts and better systems, this is a grounded conversation about real agency evolution.

What makes this episode especially valuable is the link between personal change and business performance. Ross explains how improving his health, mindset and decision-making helped him lead more clearly, say no to the wrong work and create better results. Follow the podcast and share this episode with another estate agent who would get value from it.

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Transcript

Meet Ross Fine

Speaker 2 0:00

So on this episode of Estate Agency, I'm with Ross Final from Christopher Pallet, an agency in the Aylesbury area. So we discussed 26 years of industry experience from working in the corporate, working at an independent for 10 years, how he managed to buy out two of the business partners he went originally into his business with. And also a rebirth in him himself in his fitness and his health that then made him actually rebirth his company and where he sees a direction going forward into the future. Hope you do this episode.

Falling Into Estate Agency

Speaker 2 0:47

So uh for anyone watching or listening out there, give a bit of background of how you have arrived to host the Crystal Comic today.

Speaker 4 0:53

Okay, so um I was like fell into a state agency because we're the college. I was encouraged by some friends that were estate agents to uh get into a state agency. I was fitting kitchens at the time for my stepdad, and uh because I had to have a job after doing an engineering uh MVQ at college for a few years and hated working in a factory. Fit kitchens and then um fell out with my stepdad and uh thought I need to do something else. And friend said to her, No, Ross, I think you'd be a good estate agent, they've been doing it for a while. Um, and you should get into it. So I went for an interview, um, got offered the job. Uh that was uh um heart in 2000. And um, yeah, that's where it all began for me, really. Wow, okay. 2000. That's a long time ago now, isn't it? Thanks.

Speaker 3 1:52

Um, okay, and so how long did you work at Han or or how long did you work rather in sort of that environment independent estate? And corporate, yeah.

Speaker 4 2:03

Well, it was Seoul was the largest

Learning Fast In Corporate

Speaker 4 2:05

independent agency and the world. It's a corporate. Yeah. Um I was there for three years. Um I remember uh getting the job, being really excited about it, just car and working in an office and out of the office, and seemed really interesting to me. Um, I was lucky I wouldn't have given it a VM stuff. Oh, it must be a gap back then. Um and I remember being in the office for two weeks, um, loved it, and had to have a one-to-one with a boss. And he said, Right, only been here two weeks, how are you getting on? Any questions? And first guess what how do I get your job? Because what I said to him, you know, I said I love this. How do I get your job? So I knew he was earning money, joke in the W. I thought, yeah, I want some of that. And uh he laughed and said, Yeah, you're several years away from being able to get my job before. No, so we talked about progression, how I could progress quickly. Um, I realized fairly quickly that uh if I wanted to step up the ladder, it's where I needed to be good at getting houses on the market. Um, and so that's what I focused on. I think within eight months of being an agency, I was out valuing, said, Well, you're not gonna go out on the valuations to come in, you'd have to generate your own. So at least we went through everybody's applicant boxes, found people with houses to sell locally, those that were on the market and weren't on the market, and I just focused all my time on bashing their applicants and trying to generate valuation leads basically. Um I think within within a year of being an agent, I was outlisting most people in trying to the odd office group. I was outlisting most of the seasoned listers, assistant managers, because I loved it and I realized that's where I was going to earn money. You were paid commission on listings, commission on sales, and I thought, well, if I get on the market, while I go on holiday, I'm still gonna earn money because having a seven-line house. So to be honest, I was never really that excited about generating viewings, getting big roundhouses, so I was always more excited about getting houses on the market first place and selling me and my the company I was working for, let's say it was more about selling me, so that's what I enjoyed, but it and then did you which go after

Moving To An Independent Team

Speaker 4 4:22

half? So um I remember three years in, all of a sudden things changed. Um not allowed administrators anymore, and I gotta go. We're making cutbacks. Um, my boss who had employed me, Colin, was a great guy. Um, he'd been through three or four different area managers, changed uh the area changed from 20 offices to 17 to 35. An area manager came in and basically sat him down and said, You haven't got a choice in terms of what we're doing, you'll do it yourself. We said, Well, I've got a choice, and here's my notice, I'm off. And he left, and I thought, oh, okay, one or two things here for me. Either I don't really like the less go, I'm gonna leave. But actually, I'm gonna put my hat in the ring and say, I'll run the office. And so I had a meeting with the area manager and said, Look, well, I'm not gonna have been here three years, but I'm not I'll I'll run the office. I'll I'm gonna go there's some zero eye contact and just left me with really bad feeling. And so, yeah, two weeks later, I left. I went for I went to work for an independent company um called Partnership. Um, a guy called Tim, and got a job there as a senior negotiator slash assistant manager. And just before I started, I had a call from Colin to say, ah, just so you know, I'm gonna be your boss again. I've also got a job at Hartwright. So um so we both ended up working together there again. Um, I was there for 10 years in total. Um, I worked um, yeah, I was a senior negotiator, became sort of assistant manager quite quickly um in the Aylesbury office, and then I became the sales manager in that office by 2006 or three years later, um, uh opened up some more offices. Uh there's four offices in total. Connie stepped up to sort of an area manager role. Um so I was running the main office, the Aylesbury office, um, and then there was an opportunity to open up the fourth office, which was uh one small village bar, which I sort of pushed for, to be honest with you. Um, and that was great that Tim the owner supported me and said, Yeah, okay, well, let's go get another office bank, it's yours. And so I opened that in 2006. Um, we were market leader, it's only a small business. There's four agents there. We were market leader within six months. Um, I enjoyed that time there, um, but the Awesbury office started to go down in terms of numbers, like a bit. So I ended up going back there. Long story short, Colin was um where he left the partnership to the Labour Buzzard Office. I became an area manager and run of the Aylesbury office. Then I got off with the opportunity to be sales director. So I went to get another job. I got off to another job as an area manager for countrywide. He didn't want me to go, so he said, You've got to want you to stay, what have I got to do? So um made sales director, I've got my wages, car, everything else. Um, took the more comfortable option, often jumping into the fire. And then my first job as sales director in 2008 was to close down two offices and make most people redundant. So okay. That was nice turn up turning anything.

Speaker 2 7:49

Yeah, that's that sounds that sounds like a traditional independent estate agency

Burnout And Leaving A Role

Speaker 2 7:55

and how things operate.

Speaker 3 7:56

Well, I answered the question. And then but then and so so and what did you do once you did you eventually leave that company, or is that when you went and started earlier on, or was there?

Speaker 4 8:06

I think, yeah, so I think it got to the point going into too much personal detail. Um I worked my back side off. I've always worked for myself. Okay, I might have worked for a company and someone else that owns a company. I've always worked for myself and and been very proud of what I do. Pride is everything to me, integrity is everything, and so yeah, I worked my backside off because that's the way I am, not because I want to do it for someone else. It was all basic for me. Um, a number of things happened um that affected my life quite drastically. And all of a sudden I didn't have the support that you would expect from someone who you'd worked for for 10 years and worked really hard for. And it opened up my eyes to the realization that actually I wasn't as important as I thought I was maybe. Um, everybody's replaceable. Um and so I sort of had to get out, had to go. And so I handed my notice in, it was a three-month notice period. I thought, oh shit, I'd better get myself a get a job. But obviously, there was a level I needed to be at. Um, and so I was looking around for a job, and uh one came up in Milton Keynes for Hart again. We said flagship, one of their flagship branches, massive branch. Um, so I thought, well, okay, it's not, I don't think it's really what I want to do. I thought area manager, retail manager role is really what I want, but this was an expects thing. So I thought so I can get into there, then it's a stepping stone to area management wrestling, which I thought is that's what I wanted to do, probably driven by money as well as anything else. But negotiated a great salary there. Um just the guy that interviewed me and said, Yeah, you you won't get paid that because that's more than I want. He was up with an area manager guard, and then oh that's what I'm worth. That build, so that's what I'd be looking for. That's that cultures. Yeah, yeah. And met with uh Vin Gittings, great guy, um, and uh had an interview with him, talking with him, got the job. But it never felt quite right. Um, and it's a mess. When I went in there, it's a mess. There was a lot to be done and dropped a lot. Um the pipeline was not right, props it's not the market shouldn't have been on the market. Yeah, yeah. This is a very stressful situation to find myself in.

Buying Into Christopher Pallet

Speaker 4 10:38

And then at a similar time, I was approached by um a couple of agents that I know um who owned Christopher Pallett in Aylesbury, um, Tony and Nick. Um, one of the things that I've always been very, but I've always got on with other agents. Never had an issue with our own. There's always a lot of agents, hate agents. I've never really bothered with any of that stuff. I always got on pretty well with them. Um and they approached me and said, um, Christopher Pallet himself, who owns the Wendover office, is selling up. Is it something you're interested in? Let's have a chat. So went to have a chat with them, explained how it would be, would go in this partnership, they would own 51% between them, I'd come in at 49%, we'll put the sort of equal money in and take over the office. And that was uh 13 years ago. Um January 13 years ago. So I went home and said to my wife, this is the proposal this sort of needs to do. She goes, she said, Well, what do you need? And so two minutes later, she walked out room, so it was like she came back in and went, There you go, there's a loan, Tesco's loan for that amount of money, you've been approved.

Speaker 6 11:49

If you press that button, you can do it. Um just pressed the button and said, Right, so what's the worst gonna happen?

Speaker 4 12:00

I said, What's your go-well, it doesn't work out, and you have to go and get another job, you'll get another interrupted state agency. Yeah, that's the worst thing's gonna happen for it. So I actually supported that 100%, and um, yeah, so we went for it. And um that's 13 years ago now.

Speaker 3 12:21

So 13 years ago and you had Bristol Palace, and has anything changed in those 13 years in terms of in terms of uh the ownership, is it still

Disillusionment And A New Detour

Speaker 3 12:32

the same?

Speaker 4 12:32

No. So okay, so uh back in 20 in 2018, um I was a little bit disillusioned by the thing. I wasn't I don't think I was enjoying things as much as I should have been, really, as a business owner. So the two business owners I had, great guys, but really no involvement in the business. And so they wouldn't cover a Saturday if I needed them to or help out as in coming into the office. One of them did the accounts, great, so I didn't have to worry too much about that, um, and sort of manage the money. And the other one was more of a side of partner. And I suppose every time I wanted more money, it was a case of, well, if I take more money, they have to the equivalent. Right, right. So I got a bit frustrated by that. Um, and I had an idea um about um online sort of properties. And so I thought to myself, look, who do I know with some money that might invest? And um a great guy, Nigel uh Hoth, who at the time owned a couple still does own a company called GoTo, GoTo Group. Uh, it sold up this previous company that um I surveys for estate agents and stuff like GoTo Group. So I contacted Nigel, went to see him with my idea.

Speaker 6 13:54

So I picked up my idea to him and um I said, okay, great, let me think on it. I'll be in touch.

Speaker 4 14:03

And the next morning I woke up to a message from Nigel and um said, need to come and see me. So I went and had a chat with him again. He said, Look, great idea, love your idea, I think it's something that's got legs. Yeah, I woke up thinking about it, so it looks great.

Speaker 6 14:19

However, um I've got a proposal for you. Okay, so he offered me a job to come and work for him.

Speaker 4 14:27

Um, as I say, so the go-to group sells solutions to a city agent, so survey solutions, solicitor solutions, things like. Well, I've got my own business. I didn't really need a job. Um back of my mind, I always thought, well, I've always wanted to try a bit business to business out. Never done that before. Um, and then he offered me a package that I thought, correctly, well, I might as well give this a go. So again, spoke to my wife about it, said, well, it's a regular income, it's not a commission, and that's good money. So again, nothing to lose, go you better go. And at the time, I thought, right, that's it, I'm done with my business.

Speaker 6 15:11

And I sort of agreed a sale on it. That didn't work out.

Speaker 4 15:17

That person pulled out so still a visitor. So I contacted Colin, who gave me my first job in the state agency at home, who was working in village next village along, if you like, running an office there and said, look, you do you want a job? So again, he came to run my business for me. That's why I went, right, I'm off to go to group and try and something you can run the business. The business partners agreed with it, so I went to Earth GoTo Group for a year. Um which gets that, but I was there for a year, really proud of what I achieved there and what I did there. But actually made me realize how much I love the state agency, how much I struggle to be managed, how much I don't like to be managed, and um I had to be my own boss and do my own thing. So again, went back to my business, uh, bought out one of the business partners. Um, we agreed a yeah, uh he he went. So it was left me and the other guy that did the account, so now I had 74, 24.5%. Still have Colin? Colin's still there, so I went back to work with Colin. We hadn't worked together since our Harbor days, which was several years before. Um, and it was great. Yeah, I've got Colin and I have always stayed in touch since day one, really. We've got him very well from the early days. He was very um they used to call him Rocket

Buying Out Partners For Good

Speaker 4 16:51

because he used to go from zero to hundred very quickly. Um and he was quite forceful in his way of managing in his office. He was never like working for a height, he was not working for Cobb, it was his office, and yeah, we did exceptionally well. Um, but very early on we got on, he would tear a strip off someone in the middle of the office in front of someone, in front of everybody, if they weren't listening and kept messing up. Um, and uh I think he called me something one day, and I just turned around and called him it back and it face a bit shocked. Like, I won't talk to you that loud, but mate, yeah, anything you say to me is not as bad as what I've been used to at home sometimes. So, you know, you're still gonna work. And literally because we got on strike, that was it.

Speaker 6 17:34

So anyway, so I went back to work with God in then COVID happened. Interesting times. Um, and then as we came out of COVID, that was an incredible year.

Speaker 4 17:49

And then my other business partner decided he was coming out of the industry, he was going to get a job, and the job meant he wasn't allowed to own an estate agency because of who he was going to work for. And he wanted to keep his shares in the office because it was going to give him money and making money regularly. Um, but I scoring out CSC, and it was a good opportunity for me to then go to that. So I bought him out in 2022, I think he would have been. So yeah, since then I've owned it all myself. Sorry, to fight to to go. And it's been Colin's still there. So yeah, Colin still works with me. Um I I wouldn't say he works for me, uh, he works with me. Um, we are very much a team of partnership, because it's my business. Um, but Colin again, I think very much like me throughout my career, and I probably learned it from him was you're working for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, he that's the way he is. Um but he is an excellent associate agent, learned huge amounts from him over the years, and he's someone I trust massively. So I can go on online for two weeks if I want to and feel comfortable that things have been done in the right way and the business would still be there when I get back to shoot what's right. So uh strongest bits out there as well, but part in 2000 when you joined versus Kiss Christie with Pala 2026. I mean, it's got to be like two different worlds, hasn't it? Massively, massively. I mean, back in 2000, yeah, in the office, you have the applicants in the old cards in a box, um, a phone on your desk and the cards in the box on your desk. That's it. One computer in the office, um, which they had been lately touched, and the manager might have been out to touch, but I'm late in touch it. Um possibly those identified.

From Card Files To Proptech

Speaker 4 19:51

No internet, uh the loose paper filling that in every yeah, that was my job every week to get all that, and you know, and and I like to have sort of marks inside of things. I've always enjoyed that and design, so I was always quite hot on maps. So in those 26 years, obviously, like yeah, technology's the obvious one just coming. But weirdly, like, it also feels like maybe a little bit, and you might disagree with this, I don't know. I'm thinking back to that time and thinking generally for a stations now with loads of technology, loads of different tools for different things, it's actually probably harder for them to make a profit now than it was back then. Thinner margins now than they were back then, even with all of that technology. Um but there are some things obviously that are that that are helping them. So I don't know, like because we laugh, you know, applicant box filing cabinet, but it was very simple. It's very simple, it's straightforward. There's your phone and there's your cards. And what's the problem? We sort of felt like well, what would solve this would be, you know, if I could have more needs, more properties, more accidents, more of this, more of that. But maybe that just maybe that's just noise. Yeah, I think the traditional way was to, I mean, we would we would cut the the town up into five sections because there was five of us, and every week you'd take interns to go and drive around your your area and you look at the boards, find, write the addresses down, and you send it out letters out. It might if the same, if there's two boards on a property, get out, knock on the door because that's a multi-agent. We'll get that on as well then.

Speaker 6 21:35

Yeah.

Speaker 4 21:35

Um, and you'd control your area, and that worked really well for us. And you know, we we exceptionally well in that office. Um it's very that's the way we used to do it. Get in the car, do a few miles, and then send some letters and see if that on the see if they see if you've got an applicant card with a name on it. Um they're done with in the bin. Yeah, cutting that out as soon as they leave the door. I learned very, very early about judging books and discover. So this this guy walks in uh quite early on in my career. And uh it was a scruff, just a real scruff, and I've struck when he picked up the phone as you do it to somebody else. And so someone else dealt with him, and uh yeah, then following a week he sold the most expensive house we had on our database to that guy that walked in. And uh you learn quickly when you do things like that actually, yeah.

Speaker 2 22:31

So I sound up. I I worked in my phone's crew was in banking EU. I need to have the old payment books for people to come updated the payment books. And I learned that very quickly because you'd have people accused to do the payment books, you'd think fucking hell. I mean, I was probably just sat there in the current account just doing nothing. It was simple times, don't get a simple time.

Speaker 4 22:50

Yeah, I meant getting the job as a lister, right? Ross you're now a value lister. The first thing I did is when I bought myself a briefcase. I'd say so I could put my six for six measuring stick in there and I'm like guns and the rest of the walk down the road from my briefcase and started doing a real job, or not right now. Get a Peter and a file. No, not like that. But you know, and that yeah, a stick to measure houses with a camera that you took your photo off, and someone came around and going to voting.

Speaker 2 23:19

Did you take anything from um your independent days before you went moved into to to owning that business?

Speaker 4 23:26

Yeah, no, I think the difference is I think a lot of the corporates, as it were, have this one size fits all attitude. Oh, this is the marketing we're doing, and all the offices will do the same. That's the way it is. Um, and I see it today. Um, one of our investors that has an office, they have multiple offices, and I see how well they do in one area, and they try to do the same strategy in our sort of market town, it doesn't resonate with people. It doesn't work. It doesn't work, it's not a personal approach, it's very clearly a you know, we're we're we're this giant and you should use us because we're great and we've got all these offices, and and people don't buy into that. So not having that one size-fit-all

Tailoring Service Over Corporate Scripts

Speaker 4 24:08

attitude definitely is is more of an independent thing. You you tailor your services to an individual rather than say you some people want WhatsApp, some people want phone calls, some people want email, some people just want to chat, you know, and and you tailor that to each individual. Yeah. Um I was listening to you on a podcast uh a little while ago, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, but I got the feeling that like you almost sort of re there was like a rebirth in your company not so long ago. Uh whereby like you said maybe there, maybe you touched on it where like you took off disillusion with it or whatever, and like then just decided like, you know what, uh fix this. And then there's like a it's like a new version of the company, am I right? Or a new version of me, I think, I would say, rather than the company initially. So um probably about two and a half years ago, two and a half, three years ago, um, again, I was probably not in a great place for realization that I was just living my life in autopilot. I think it's probably the easiest way to say, just doing the same things you've always done. Um the same stuff all the time. It was at that time I was also diagnosed

Sleep Apnea Sparks Personal Rebuild

Speaker 4 25:23

with um sleep apnea, and I was probably a bit overweight. Well, I was overweight, um, wasn't sleeping, I was waking up or stopped breathing, shall I say, 12 times an hour. Um suffering headaches and just not in a great place at all. And realization that something needed to change and wasn't enjoying running the business, it was just a case of it was everything was hard work all the time. Um, and I wasn't concentrating on myself at all. I thought, well, I need to make changes in my business. What do I do? Do I start doing high-end properties? Do I need to do more of something else? I don't know what to do. And I reached out um to uh Matt Gibbs. He was on LinkedIn and I followed him for a while on LinkedIn, and a lot of stuff that he said made sense. And um I sort of agreed with a lot of the stuff he was saying. It's flight job picking them up. He just started the sort of prestige brand that he he did, and um I thought, well, I'll I'll speak to him about that and say, look, is that sort of just that company? Are you franchising it, or perhaps that's what I need to do? And straight away said he'll come and see me. And um so I went up to Steven to see Matt. Um, I thought we were gonna sit down and have a chat. I says, obviously, guess come we're going on evaluation. I'm like, okay, I'll go on evaluation. So strange, okay. So I got in his car and his nice portion, and we went round and we value the house, and it straight away involved me in the conversation. I thought, I wasn't expecting this at all. And so you know, I'm on this valuation in an area I don't know at all. Um the idea of the house, or anyway, he's involved in the conversation, we've got chat. It was so natural. It was just a conversation. I thought, you know, that's exactly it. You know, I've been it's just having conversations with people. Anyway, we we come out of there, we got on, we went for a for a cup of uh coffee. Um, and next thing I know, he's suggested. I think the pressing thing probably wasn't right for me, but the next thing I know he suggested to me, he said, look, I've got an idea. Um, it's three other guys that I work with, think about doing a mentoring group. I call it Power Group, and we'll all say okay. Sounds interesting. Um, and we formed this group. And Matt mentors the four of us, and we were on his podcast for Christmas. Um, and it changed a lot for me. Um all of a sudden I felt like I had people that went from having two business partners, which, as I say, great guys, and every um idea

Mentoring, Mindset, And Saying No

Speaker 4 27:55

I had, I had someone to sense check it with, I had someone to talk to about it and support. If it was like, yeah, sounds good, crap on Ross. You know, at least I told someone that's what I'm gonna do, right? Put it off in the chair. Someone else gave you some like, you know, belief that it would work. Yeah, give it a go. You know, sometimes I was like, Oh, yeah, we tried that before, didn't really work for us. Um I got these four guys that I can talk to on a month. It started off as like, right, we'll do this six-week thing, six-week program. Um, and we talked about evaluation instructions and blah blah blah. It turned very much into a mindset thing as well, mindfulness, wellness. Um, and it gave me a new lease of life. And I thought, you know what, listen to some of these guys about what they're doing in their business, how they're running their business, and how they were you know dealing with certain things. Come on, there's more to this than just having a business. Um run it the way you want to run it, enjoy it again. And what's gonna make it more enjoyable? How are you gonna enjoy it more? But also it made me look at myself quite deeply, and I think, well, I'm not looking after me. Um I've spent so much time thinking about everybody else, my family, make sure everyone else is alright. I wasn't looking after myself, as I say, I was overweight, I wasn't eating very well, I hadn't moved my body for a few years, I had to stop playing football, so I had to stop running, because I've damaged my knee, had two operations many years ago, and so I wasn't exercising, I wasn't doing anything. Um, and my son was 12, 12, I think, so quite an approachable age. And yeah, but so I was in and realized I need to sort my shit out, basically. And so that's exactly what I did. I started swimming, um, started moving, started looking at my nutrition, so I'd go to bed early, so I didn't get up early to go swimming at 6 a.m. All of a sudden I was feeling a lot better about myself. Um, made lots of decision making easier, I cleared my head, um, and then you start making changes in your business, like saying no to people, which is something I've never done before. It's always been the business, right? Just more and more and more, just get it, just get it, whatever you need to do. And and it's actually dealing with some real arseholes he's don't want to be dealing with, and you just do it, you think, oh that's what they're like. But and especially in a state agency where you're not getting paid till the deal happens.

Speaker 3 30:22

I'm dealing with arseholes for free. Yep. And those people think you're an arsehole, and then they're gonna pay you.

Speaker 4 30:30

But you look and you look at the what the national average of only 50% are completing, right? See 50% of the people you're dealing with, you're not gonna earn any money from. And yeah, I I you know that realisation actually, this thing it can be different. You don't have to keep doing the same things you've always been doing. You don't have to do an autopilot, you don't, it doesn't have to be this way. And so again, yeah, so a big mind shift for me to change the way I was doing things, to start saying no, to start spending more time with the people I wanted to spend time with, uh, outside of work as well as inside of work. And and and and you'd had you'd come back to Christopher Panaton then? Yeah, so I was only away for a year, 2018, and by 2019 I was back here.

Speaker 2 31:16

And then and then was you was you back in the office at that period of time, or was it still calling?

Speaker 4 31:22

Totally, yeah, to be a BM. The thing is, I love a state agency uh and I love sitting in people's rooms uh in their houses. I love talking to them about what we do and how we do it. Um, it's very much a people business. I like to understand people's journey, they're why why are they moving, how have they got to this point, what's the plan now, why is that happening? How can I help them? And and it's fascinating. You get all sorts of everyone, right? So you've got the first-time buyers by National, but when it comes to selling, you've got first-time sellers, you've got people downsizing, people upsizing, is it family, is it financial, probate, you know, those kinds of sales. So you deal with all these different people, you have all these different emotions, um, and which is hard work, because again, you can get home and you're drained, but nothing left for your family when you get home sometimes. But that's part of what we do. State agencies are just selling houses, and I don't think a lot of people appreciate how much you get, it affects your emotional. So, especially if you're that type of person that you're saying whether like, you know, where you want to know someone and you want to try and help them, like you say, but then you've got this clash of um the the um the kind of the idea that as a business owner you're supposed to be like just concerned about profit and you're supposed to be getting as much business as you can.

Speaker 3 32:49

And so now you're dealing with people that you don't give a shit about them, really. Do you know what I mean? Because they don't give a shit about you and you don't really like each other, but you're hoping to get a fee out of it. Yeah, which is like the complete opposite to what you what fires you up, absolutely you do want to meet people that appreciate you as a person and you appreciate them and you're gonna help them through this journey, and they're gonna pay you because they think that that's a fair thing to do. Yeah, but you know, you've got like I say, this this sort of conflict going on.

Speaker 4 33:16

It's nice that you've uh found a resolution to that. Yeah, and so one of the guys lamented Ingrid all the same, I said no to it. I'll I'll repeat that. I've not been on that price, I've not been in those feet. I'm thinking, wow, what a nice place to be. I mean, I'd love to be known up one day.

Speaker 2 33:34

And I realised, well, how did it how did it feel when you when you when you started that process for the first no? This changes everything. Yeah.

Speaker 4 33:43

Changes everything. And you have to believe in it. You have to but and trying to tell Colin, it's gonna be alright. It's like it's gonna affect my wages, it's gonna affect we're gonna sell less. I'm not gonna learn as much. And like, Colin, go with, it's gonna be alright. Let's just see what happens. Like, just fuck it. Just close your eyes, come with me on this. Let's see what happens. And in 2024, when I decided to do that, compared to the business in 2023, we took onto the market 33% less houses than we did the previous year. And our sales figures were up 25%. So my overhead's like ourselves and dealing with shit anymore, you know. And actually that year, the figures show that we we sold the exact same amount of houses that we took onto the market, the same number units. Um and you think, wow, yeah, wow, I've not been, I've not had my time wasted by people that don't want to listen. Yeah, that think their house is worth more than everybody else's, because so and so uh state agents said it was, yeah. And getting a load of old bullshit to uh tell you how to do the job. Exactly. That's changed the conversation that we have nowadays. And then what what when did you when did you start working with us? That would have been because me and you spoke, right? Um just before you signed up. Yes. You'd spoken to Matt. Yep. So um and and that led you to us, I guess. Yeah, so Matt Matt, tell me a bit about lifecycle and um and what it did. I've been in I've been into AI for quite a while, and we just understand what's happening in there. So I think we spoke probably March April. Yeah. And then I'm 2024, right?

Speaker 3 35:29

Uh last year, 2025. Yeah, so that's what I mean. March April 2025. So some things, some things happen like whereby you've decided, right, I've got to sort myself out here. I'm overweight.

Speaker 4 35:41

I used to like running, I'm doing bugger all, I'm not enjoying life, I've got stress, I've got sleep out there. You start sorting yourself out, you start sorting the business out. But then, like, what led you to the idea of thinking, like, I'm gonna try and sort out, I don't know, I'm gonna,

Doing Fewer Deals But Better

Speaker 4 35:57

because not because, you know, we've said I said at the start, and we've said many times on the podcast, there's not, this isn't, I'm not trying to make this a plug for life cycle. What I'm trying to get to is like there's one thing sorting yourself out and then carrying on the business and being like, right, that's it, it's working now. There's another thing like going, you know what, I'm gonna manage rip this up and do it a different way. Yeah, which is kind of what's required when you switch to not switching software so much, it's like a different way of working, right? So it's completely different. Right, what led to that and what made you think let's do that, and what bumps did you get, and what ups did you get? So I switched um from Desres to Auto, okay, because Desres one, as it was called, was coming to an end. And I've been on Desres forever, right? Years and years and years. Um, and we looked at their package when it first came out, the new package, and it didn't work for us, so they switched us back, and then it was coming to an end. So I looked around, um, and other people using auto, I'd have so I went on to that. Then I realized that you know the business had to start moving forward. When I looked at Auto, I was still only using probably 25-30% of what it did, because the rest of it was noise.

Speaker 6 37:14

Yeah.

Speaker 4 37:14

And and there was no sort of no one sort of showing you how to use it. This is what you do there. And I thought there must be a better way. We need a serial system that works for us. And there are a few in the market to a couple to look at, I thought, in the market to look at, um, one of which was yours. And so we had a conversation. I had I looked to the um I was showing the system, how it works, spoke to Matt, and I thought that is completely different. It does a lot more than what we're doing at the moment. Um, and because the CRM system I was using just did what all the others did. Stick clients on there, you put properties on there to load them up onto RideMove, we stick clients on there, yes, it'll match people's property, yes, we can send an email, but let's get on the phones. Okay, enough. But that's quite quite a way of doing it. And so you can do blogs and find time to go type

Switching CRM And Ending Cold Calls

Speaker 4 38:06

up some blogs, and then you could do these emails. I'm like, won't show me, but I can do it, and that's gonna take up a lot of my time. And I'm very much someone that works in my business, yeah, the album, and and so that's that made it difficult. But then looking at what lifecycle had to offer, a lot of that stuff was going to be done for me, and all I had to do was just look at it and make sure it was the right tone or how I wanted it to be. Um, and so we switched to life cycle, and all of a sudden you realize that you don't need to make a hundred phone calls when a property comes on the market. You just need to look at what the system tells you, and that says, Well, these 10 people are the most likely to view it. And so the guys in the office, guys who are in the office, all of a sudden, they've got this focus of who they're gonna call, why they're gonna call it, and there's no such thing called a cold call anymore. Once there's no cold calls, it's the system says, Well, you've just taken this house on the market yesterday, these are the people that click on it, this is how many times they've collected it, these are the ones that are matching to it because of this, this, and this. Phone them. And so girls come in and they're like, right, these people, you don't need to say, all right, well, we took that on yesterday, sent it out via email, start calling through those 60 people you sent the details to. No, then you just come in there and go, I've got some course to make, and they were like excited again, you know, because it's not golf course. Because first things are we sending you a proxy, you've been clicking on it. Yeah, you know, you've been looking at five times. When would you like to come and have a look?

Speaker 6 39:30

Yeah.

Speaker 4 39:31

Simple things like that, which then change changed the feel of the way they were working. Um and it's a lot more focused. Now, I'm still not using all of it, but you know, getting the the training that you'd need to tell you how it's working, why it works, and how to improve what you're doing on the system. But it's just so much more advanced without being complicated. Yeah. It's bad, isn't it? Like uh I was just chatting to someone the other day about the the system they're using. And they were talking about some of the things that they could be doing if they were using a different system, but they're like the you know, the migration from one to the other one would be painful and like, you know, be bumps in the road, and maybe it's not worth the effort. And I was the one saying that. And I was saying, however, one one thing I can guarantee you is that if you did it and you moved to this new system, whether it was ours or somebody else's or whatever, and enough time passed whereby you had new members of staff that haven't you ever knew that system.

Speaker 6 40:33

Yeah.

Speaker 4 40:34

And then you said, Oh, we're moving to this one, this old one.

Speaker 3 40:37

Well, I turned up and tried to sell you the old one, you just laughed me out the door. Totally. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 40:42

And so it's actually, it's just the change, it's just the bumps in the road of like, you know. It's always painful. You change a system, then it's ice down. Um, and there is a pain point. Of course there is. It's a lot of hard work to go through it. Same thing with when you changed your own life, you know, it's gonna start swimming. I mean, that's fucking painful.

unknown 41:01

Yeah.

Speaker 4 41:02

Do you know what I mean? That's more painful than moving to like 100 properties. At some point, uh, the pain of not doing anything is greater than the pain of changing. And that's what happened to me in my personal life. The pain of sleep apnea, not sleeping, headaches, not feeling great, not being present, being no good to my kids at weekends, because I was knackered or I'd had a drink and I was hungover because I was got the weekend as I fuck everything. The pain of that became great, and the pain would change in mind. I think the same as with this. Because it's not only the pain of the system using not gonna do what you want, your competitor that does take up this new system is gonna go ahead of you because they're doing the thing, they're not having to plug in six, seven different types of prop tech because their system is doing a lot of that stuff for them anyway, without them able to do a great deal with a lot of it's automated.

Speaker 6 42:02

Um and and yeah, so take pain.

Speaker 2 42:07

And have you found have you found because obviously you said like when you first started that you had you had a couple of the business partners and then they left, and then then you got involved with Matt, and you got a couple more, and obviously, and you actually like collaborating with a lot of agents, you know, we've got our own community.

Speaker 4 42:21

Yeah, I mean that's been different as well, yeah. Being part of a WhatsApp group of all these fantastic agents that are investing in their future, but it feels like they're all looking forwards. Um they're all looking forwards about what's coming and how they can improve and how their agency can be better, as a lot of us are stuck in that ground of just doing the same things we've always done because you know, I think my business has very much been a lifestyle business for me, to be honest. Yes, I've got an offer. Yes, I employ staff, but I work in the business and so it's it's a lifestyle business, right? And I've now got to that point after the changes I've made over the last two or three years where I'm going, well, actually, now it's time to change that. And I think a lot of that comes from listening to other people using us, so coming to the uh conferences, listening to what other people are saying and how their business has gone from being someone that worked in their business, they became an estate agency owner because they were good at being agents or whatever it was, and they loved it. Like me, I love valuation, I love getting the house on the market, and I'm obviously the best person with doing that, right? Yeah, just being fucking managed. I can't be managed. Um, I don't do being managed. Um, an auto collin, to be honest with you, which is probably why we work well together. Um but listening to a lot of people's journeys and and what

Community Thinking And Lifestyle Business

Speaker 4 43:45

they've been through, it's opened up my eyes to thinking actually, but this whole community has changed a lot of that for me as well. Yeah, and looking at the future and what I want out of the future. I'm 47 now, my kids are growing up, and I've got a lovely. Business that provides a really lovely lifestyle for us. Nice house, nice cars, nice holidays. And the business is nice, nice business. Well, yeah, at that point now where I think I want to be working on it a bit more of a beginning, I suppose.

Speaker 6 44:17

Yeah, absolutely. Love it.

Speaker 4 44:19

Um okay, I've got another one last question I want to ask you really. So you you've been around in a state agency, as you've explained to us like I quite eloquently over the last what 26 years. Yeah. We've got my applicant boxes to the software telling you who you should maybe speak to. Um where do you see it? Where do you see it going over the next few years? It's difficult to go too far into the future because things are moving so fast. But you know, you mentioned there about like people fall people could fall behind if they're staying with old systems, transferred to new systems. But when do you just start? You're looking forward now, like you've got a good business Dave, you know, you're in your 47 and you're looking forward to the next. What does the next, the ideal next chapter of Christopher Pallet look like in a state agency? Well, it's the thing, this is where I'm I'm looking at the industry at the moment and it's changing rapidly and has done the last few years, and you see you know, EXP on this whole personal agent side of things, um uh uh UK and and Avocado. And so these guys are creating something uh that provides a real nice lifestyle business for someone. Um, and I think some of those guys are exceptional and do a brilliant job and very successful um at having this lifestyle business. We've seen some of them now, you know, I won't mention

Where Estate Agency Goes Next

Speaker 4 45:48

names, but one particular who went on at one point not that long ago, how you don't need a high street office, it's a waste of money. Um, and pointless, this and the other, so all of a sudden opened up his own office, and he's gonna write so if I'm going to grow, I need an office, right? So I think the office is here to stay in certain areas. Um, but I think also I see some of the larger corporates perhaps struggling a bit in the future in terms of adapting to the way things are changing quickly, and they probably can't change the way 250, 300 offices work overnight. So that that's going to change as well. So I actually think that whilst the independent agent will continue and get stronger, and so I think there's still space for really good independent agents as well. I say corporals will go completely, all of it's been down to the individuals. Good estate agents will be here to stay in whatever guys they are, whether that's independent or self-employed or whatever model it is. Um from my own business point of view, I think where I am now, if I want to expand, it's not about opening up the second office. I think that's a big overhead that's splitting people into two. I don't think that's necessary, really. One of the things that attracted me about livestock, I understand about the CRM system again, what it does enable me to do is to cover a larger area than my cover without having to open up more offices. And perhaps with getting partners on board to take over different areas around where I am. Um, and whether I end up with a larger office um off the high street so people can work together. I think being in an office environment is really important. I don't think like I close my office down tomorrow. I could go work through XP as myself in my area, sell 35% less houses, and I would make a lot more money than I make personally. But I love being in an office. I love having a team around me, and I love all that, what comes with that. Um, so the future for me is probably expanding by getting more people on board to cover a much larger area from one main hub, yeah, as opposed to opening up more offices. That that's the way I see it. Um but it's all about individuals, and I think it always has been. It doesn't matter who you work for or who you work under, or if you're a good estate agent and you care about people and you look after people and you do things in the right way, you'll be successful.

Speaker 6 48:19

That may be all about money. Very good job. Well, no, we've been very good. Very good. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming in.

Speaker 48:33

Thanks for listening to this Estate Agency X podcast. Can you make sure that you're actually subscribed to this podcast channel if you liked the content? Uh, it helps us massively to get better guests, and it just helps us generally. So you might think you're subscribed, but just have a double check, whatever your um podcast platform of preference is, that you're actually subscribed, and then that way we can continue to grow the channel and get better and better guests for you.