Hattersley A New Hope: From West Gorton Streets to Hills and Sheep

 Shirley, Janet and Liz recount the days of their youth, moving from the bustling streets of West Gorton to the sheep-dotted hills of Hattersley, it feels as if we're stepping through the pages of history. Their tales, brimming with the struggles and triumphs of the 1960s Overspill housing plan, offer a rare window into the lived experiences of Manchester's past. The stark differences from their former urban life to the rural setting of Hattersley, complete with the challenges of adapting to sparse amenities and building a new community from scratch, are brought to life through their vivid memories.

Yet, as we navigate the social tapestry of Hattersley, it's impossible to ignore the sweeping changes that time has brought. The technology that has reshaped our interactions casts a long shadow over the once-thriving pubs and clubs where generations of locals forged unbreakable bonds. Our discussion with Shirley and Janet peels back the layers of community evolution, examining the nuances of how we stay connected in an increasingly digital world. The contrast is poignant—yesterday's face-to-face banter juxtaposed with today's digital dialogue, leaving us to ponder the future of community cohesion.

Our exploration takes a heartfelt turn as we celebrate the strength and resilience that have come to define Hattersley. From local rivalries to shared triumphs, the stories encapsulate a community that has weathered stigma and adversity, holding tight to pride in their identity. As we pay homage to the 'good old days' and the cherished community events of yore, we're also reminded of the spirited initiatives keeping Hattersley's heart beating strong today. With every anecdote and reflection, Shirley, Janet, and our other guests paint a portrait of a neighborhood not merely surviving but thriving through the collective spirit of its people.

Tameside South and Longdendale Food Bank
Open 9am - 11am every friday at The Meeting Point, St Barnabas Church, Hattersley Rd East, Hattersley, Hyde 
For more info email - Info@TamesideSouthLongdendale.FoodBank.org.uk

PC Refub  - www.PCrefurb.org.uk
For more information email admin@pcrefurb.org.uk

Action Together - www.actiontogether.org.uk
For more information conatct Dawn -  info@actiontogether.org.uk

Transcript

Mark: 2:23

Welcome to the very first episode of Hats, chats and Giggles podcast. I'm your host, mark, and today we're going to be taking a trip down memory lane with two very, very special guests Shirley and Janet. And Janet they moved to that area in Manchester in the 1960s as part of the city's ambitious Oberspill housing plan. They're going to be telling us all about when they first moved up here back in the day. Hi, janet, hi Shirley.

Shirley: 3:00

Hi Mark, hi Mark.

Mark: 3:01

Thanks for coming in today on our first ever Hats, Chats and Giggles podcast. What have you been up to this morning?

Shirley: 3:08

Been to the gym, the pair of us, haven't we? Getting fit, getting fit.

Mark: 3:12

Well, this is the first ever episode of Hats, chats and Giggles, and today we're going to be talking about Hasle in the beginning. So when did you actually move up here?

Shirley: 3:24

In 1966, in the 60s, I was a bit later. I was probably 68.

Mark: 3:30

About 1968,. What about you, Janet?

Janet: 3:32

1966.

Mark: 3:34

What part of Manchester were you living in when you first come?

Shirley: 3:37

I was West Garton, just off Clue Street.

Janet: 3:41

I was West Garton too, but near Bellevue, near the Garton Baths.

Mark: 3:45

Can you remember what age? Well, I'm not going to ask you that Six, you were six, yeah. And how old?

Shirley: 3:52

was you. I was about 10, 11.

Mark: 3:54

What were the living conditions in Manchester then in Garton and West Garton then?

Janet: 3:59

Well, we had an outside toilet, the bath, the tin bath on the nail outside and they used to bring it in on a Friday and we all used to have to get in it, two sisters and me In front of the fire. In front of the fire, yeah, cold fire, yeah, mum used to do it before we got up in the morning and they used to come down and there was a shovel with a newspaper across to draw the fire. It was all damp in the ceiling. Me and my older sister that shared a bedroom used to look up at the ceiling and try and make shapes and say what the shapes looked like and reminded us of, and it was damp coming through the ceiling.

Mark: 4:38

So did you have a garden then, or anything like that?

Janet: 4:40

No, backyard and the front just went from the living room straight out onto the street.

Mark: 4:47

You're looking back right. What were your first impressions when you arrived in Attersley in the 60s? How did it compare to what you left behind? Can you have any?

Shirley: 4:58

It was unbelievable the green weren't it.

Janet: 5:02

It was just massive. The house was massive and you know we had three bedrooms, we had a bathroom and it was just unbelievable. And the space outside I mean they hadn't even built the roads or the pavements, it was just the house. And everywhere there was mud, everywhere. There was even a big farm gate at the end of the road. And on the first morning that we slept there, and everywhere there was mud, everywhere. There was even a big farm gate at the end of the road. And on the first morning that we slept there, we opened the window upstairs and there was sheep wandering round outside. I don't think I'd ever seen a sheep before.

Shirley: 5:32

It was so green and open and all the trees and the hills. I couldn't believe it, because we'd never really seen much of that down there, had we? Yeah, and the first winter.

Janet: 5:40

Oh my God, there was snow right up to the door. We thought we were going to get snowed in and helicopters would have to drop food to us.

Mark: 5:47

How did you move up here?

Shirley: 5:49

We had a removal van with big, massive orange crates. Do you remember them? We used to keep oranges in and everything wrapped in newspaper, but we didn't have carpets. And that in West Garton you didn't have carpets. And that in West Garton you didn't have carpets, you had just a big rug in the middle of the room you had oilcloth. Oilcloth with a big rug in it. So you just roll the rug up, didn't you? Yeah, and your furniture. We had a furniture van. How did you move?

Janet: 6:14

Yeah, I think it was a furniture van.

Shirley: 6:17

Yeah, what.

Mark: 6:17

What sort of amenities and facilities were here in them days?

Janet: 6:22

There was a school, there was the school, so I went to Arendale School. But as far as the buses, we had to walk down here to Barnabas's because the terminus was here, so you had to get off the bus here and walk to John Kennedy Road and where the terminus is now. That's where we lived and we had to walk from here to there and back and the buses didn't run very often.

Shirley: 6:45

And there was a post office and a rent office. It was like a little hut Facing Barnabas a hut, yeah.

Mark: 6:52

You know, when you said you had to walk down, john Kelly, was it a path?

Janet: 6:57

Not at first Was it roads. There was no roads at first. There was no roads, no pavement, it was just mud. There was mud everywhere.

Shirley: 7:03

You always wore your wellies Always.

Mark: 7:05

Well, it's still like that now, isn't it?

Shirley: 7:07

Yeah, it's turned back into that, yeah, isn't it?

Mark: 7:10

The sides of the roads everywhere.

Janet: 7:14

Well, it's like the grass verges, we don't really need them. When we moved here, mark, we didn't even have a car. So you think about it now. In a three-bedroomed house, it's usually mum's got a car, dad's got a car, and if they've got grown-up kids they've all got cars.

Shirley: 7:27

Nobody had cars did they.

Janet: 7:33

They didn't make any provisions for people to have one car or more than one car, so we haven't got any facilities to park cars have we, there was one bus.

Mark: 7:41

What bus was it? 211.

Janet: 7:43

Or you could walk to Mottram Road and get the 125.

Shirley: 7:47

Oh, there was a 208 that was in.

Janet: 7:48

Rush Hour yeah, they used to put a 208 on in Rush Hour.

Mark: 7:51

So then, what about the trains?

Janet: 7:53

No.

Mark: 7:53

No.

Shirley: 7:54

Broadbottom, that was it.

Mark: 7:55

When was the train station built?

Shirley: 7:57

then Not even in Adderley.

Janet: 7:59

I'd moved off when they built that.

Shirley: 8:01

Yeah, quite new to us.

Janet: 8:03

Isn't it?

Shirley: 8:04

Was there any shops.

Janet: 8:05

No, there was a van. There was a van that used to come round on a Friday night. There was one that came round with chips, bread van and there was a bread van, and then there was like a mobile shop that came round that sold everything.

Shirley: 8:19

Did? We used to have to walk into Mottram there was an outdoor off-licence in Mottram Village. And Beresford's a grocer's.

Janet: 8:28

And there was two butchers, yeah, and a Flint's greengrocer's.

Shirley: 10:10

Greengrocer's. Yeah, on the corner of Mottram Brown We'd really walk because we lived John Kennedy, we lived at the bus terminus didn't we?

Janet: 10:16

Yeah, where the bus terminus is now.

Shirley: 10:18

That's where we lived, so we used to walk up to Matram Rail, didn't we?

Mark: 10:22

Yeah, was there a sense of community? With your new neighbours you know like, because people came from different areas you used to come from.

Shirley: 10:30

West Garton West.

Mark: 10:31

Garton and Garton.

Shirley: 10:39

But people who came from other areas of Manchester. How did that kind of the community was? What we did find is some of your neighbours had moved before you and they lived at the beginning of the estate. They lived near the ostrich, at the other end of the estate, near what is the aerial tavern, didn't they? I knew people Carrow, rathbone and all that that lived at that end.

Janet: 10:57

Yeah, but there was a lot of people that knew each other from Manchester anyway and because we were all in the same boat, everybody helped each other. I can remember my mum going in to the next door but one neighbour's and helping them and minding each other's kids. I mean, most of the mums didn't work.

Shirley: 11:20

And we had a lot of aunties and uncles and grands, because you never called anybody you know by the first name, or mrs suchbody, everybody was auntie I did have two aunties up here and my two grands moved up here, didn't they my grand followed?

Janet: 11:34

yeah, my grand came up later.

Shirley: 11:36

Yeah, as well.

Mark: 11:38

So what was it like as a child living in? You're living in Gorton. You've got no back garden. You've got a toilet in the back. You've got a steel bath. What was it like when you come up here?

Shirley: 11:49

Well, you could play. We played out down there in the back entries, or we went to Gorton Park, didn't we?

Janet: 11:54

Yeah.

Shirley: 11:54

Or Debdale Park. Right, you had to walk to Debdale Park, but you come up here. You played out all day. My aunt moved up here in 66 and I used to come with my cousins and stay in the six-week holidays and you were out just free all day walking to Broadbottom, going up Werneth Low, didn't you? Going in the other row?

Janet: 12:19

Yeah, we used to go in the other row. Yeah, we used to go in the. I mean, surely I've got memories of when we jumped in with our clothes on into the river after school.

Mark: 12:27

Oh well, I don't know if you could still jump in it now. How do you think has this changed? Yeah, through the 60s and 70s. What major improvements or things can you recall from that time?

Shirley: 12:41

It's improved. It did improve when we had the community centre and the youth club and the boxing club, but the library, that was all.

Mark: 12:51

So were these all things that kind of got built? Yeah, in our time yeah, you moved in the houses got built.

Shirley: 12:58

They were nothing, but they had all the pubs and the clubs up here then, didn't they?

Janet: 13:02

yeah, the Underwood Club working men, the legion, and I think what that did it brought. It brought the younger ones integrating with the older ones, because when I was a teenager we used to go in the Underwood Club and all those older ones and I'm saying older ones now because they were probably the age that we are now but we sat with them and we, you know, we drank with them and we danced with them and now a lot of them people are old and a lot of are not here but a lot of infirm, you know, are struggle walking and we're still in contact with them people and they do trips, you know, with the hub and we still see them people and we take them to town and you know we go down for the wit walks still and we're kind of looking after them old people. But I don't think we have got that relationship with the young ones today.

Shirley: 13:59

There's no sense of community anymore, because there's no community Like that used to be.

Mark: 14:04

Right, it's a strange one, that isn't it? Because that's happening kind of everywhere, not just in Hattersley.

Shirley: 14:08

Yeah, everywhere.

Mark: 14:10

Everywhere that people aren't mixing enough. What is it? Community cohesion? They've lost their places to do that. Yeah, yeah, they have and they agree. Agree because, um, a lot of the pubs that you you're mentioning that here anymore I work.

Janet: 14:29

When they open the flat cap, I work behind the bar there, so all the older ones were coming in. I was only 18 and they were all coming in. So you got to know them. And then you got to know their children. And I mean, I can walk around the estate and if I see kids they always say so who's your mum, who's your gran? And you know, you know that you know the parents or the grandparents, but I don't actually know the children anymore because you don't. You don't see them and it's.

Janet: 14:58

I was saying to one of the girls the other day so who did you marry? How many children have you got? Because I think when we were teenagers and then everybody's starting, like shirley did, shirley married somebody from staley bridge so she went, so she went to staley bridge, so I didn't see her for years and we lost touch. But now kids don't have to do that because all the business is on Facebook. So they know they see all the weddings, they see when they have a baby, they see the baby showers and the gender reveals and all that. So they kind of keep in touch with each other a different way. So I think that's a good thing. You know they won't. They'll never have to lose touch with people like we did, but they don't visit, like people don't visit each other's houses like these.

Shirley: 15:49

Yeah, I mean that that community's gone.

Mark: 15:51

That's gone it's just changed and I really get where you're coming from with the technology has really changed it, particularly social media. We've just found different ways of doing them same things really yeah, linking up.

Mark: 16:07

Technology, which reminds me we're going to do a show on technology and the digital divide in the future, so I may get back to you and we can have this conversation a bit more about that. So, getting back to the, the exodus up to up to harsley and the original comorinas what made, what do you think made your family decide to take part in the, in the housing program and moving up here, I don't think they had a choice, really.

Janet: 16:42

They offered us a place in horton green before hattersley and when we went it was a flat, um, a two-bedroom flat, which wasn't adequate for three kids. Um, we lost my dad, um, my dad died when I was six. So just before we left gorton my dad, at 36, died of a heart attack. So it was just mum and the three girls and it was a big upheaval that we'd lost my dad, moving house, moving school. So we came up here and it was like a fresh start. But I don't think mum got a choice. It was, you know, know, the houses were going to be demolished in garton and we'd already refused the one in horton green, so I don't think she could refuse another one right, yeah, I was reading in the book starting a new life in hatterley.

Mark: 17:30

I read a story in there that someone so the council bought the house off bought their own house. The council took that off them like compulsory purchase and when they got up here, the rent was more than what the mortgage was and houses were really cheap to buy in them days, really weren't they?

Shirley: 17:46

yeah, mum and dad bought theirs in west carton for 375 pound and when they left 10 years later they got 14 pound for it, that compulsive purchase order.

Janet: 17:58

The council given 14 pound well, my mum didn't buy us, so it was council so we were just moved up here um and carried on, so they probably renting from the council so it was still part of manchester city council when, yeah, it was originally you used to and then it was in I think it was in 1974 when it got handed over.

Shirley: 18:19

People were forced to come up here. They probably didn't want to. Like you said, we did because this particular place, because my two grands lived up here and my two aunties, so the family was up here.

Janet: 18:32

We didn't really know anybody when we came up at that end, but I had my dad's sister was up here and her daughter, so they were one of the first up, like Camborne Road area.

Mark: 18:48

So I suppose it was a fresh start, really making new friends.

Shirley: 18:51

I'd just started secondary school and I carried on on two buses, still going just past Debdale Park to my school down there, because I didn't know anybody, I had no friends up here, so I carried on. But then I made friends with Janet and Paula and people like that who lived around me, jean Diane. So I left after two years of commuting on my own for two years I thought, and then I came to the school up here, I came up to the camp yeah, my sister did that, my older sister.

Janet: 19:22

She carried on going to Ryder Brow school because mum didn't want to move her if she could help it. So she carried on commuting down to Ryder Brow. But I went to Arendale and the majority of people that I knew in my class from Arendelle School at the age of six a lot of them still live up here or still live in the area and I still see them so was Arendelle built for the estate, was it yeah?

Shirley: 19:47

But this school wasn't at first, was it? The secondary school wasn't built.

Janet: 19:50

No, there was no secondary school.

Shirley: 19:52

They all went to Longlands.

Janet: 19:54

So there wasn't a secondary school on the estate, there was primary school, so there was Pimfold.

Shirley: 20:02

Harehill what?

Janet: 20:03

was the other one Oldenclough, hurstclough, hurstclough, hurstclough, arendale. So all of them were purpose-built for the children, the younger children. But secondary school, they didn't build the Hattersley Comp till later.

Shirley: 20:17

And there were big classes. There were lots of kids weren't there.

Janet: 20:21

Yeah, so some went to Longlands and others, like Shirley were commuting back down to Manchester and my sister you know them first days and weeks.

Mark: 20:28

What was it like just into your new home and your community? Did you still not want to go?

Shirley: 20:34

No, I loved it. Kids our parents did, my mum missed it and my dad did, but they still work down there but we loved it as kids. I didn't miss any of it down there, did you?

Janet: 20:45

no, I miss my gran. But we went every weekend. We got the 211 and did the hour journey back down to garden to see gran. But it was only a couple of years later and then she moved up for those that were from the manchester area.

Mark: 20:58

do you think there was like a couple of years later and then she moved up For those that were from the Manchester area? Do you think there was like a shared identity for them? Early residents? Did that fall? Yeah, yeah.

Janet: 21:05

Especially with our parents, because, I say, a lot of them knew each other anyway and they all, like, looked after each other and, you know, supported each other.

Shirley: 21:13

They were all in it together, weren't they really?

Mark: 21:15

They were all, yeah, and I suppose because you always know people from other areas, don't you? Oh, you're such a body. Do you know such a body from that? Area you know such a body from Moss Side Like oh yeah.

Janet: 21:27

Well, if you didn't know them, you knew somebody that they knew.

Shirley: 21:36

Because it was, even, though it was even though it was a tight-knit community in manchester anyway, with them, like people know each other from different areas now and they all used to help each other with gardens and things, didn't they? Oh, do you need a name with that?

Janet: 21:42

and well, a lot, a lot of the pet, a lot of the women didn't work. They were, they were stay-at-home mums. So they got together because I suppose you know, taking the kids to school, school and then being at home, they popped in and out of each other's houses for cups of tea and stuff. And nowadays most parents both parents are working, so some people don't even know their next-door neighbours and that's all over, isn't it?

Shirley: 22:10

They know more about them on social media than you Like. Janet just said it's social media.

Mark: 22:15

So you were coming in, as what about the existing people who lived around?

Janet: 22:19

here. How was that? There wasn't, no, I mean Motram people.

Mark: 22:23

Oh well, yeah, you know because you've moved into this area. There's an estate that's built. Everyone's come from Manchester. They hated us.

Janet: 22:30

Everybody hated us. It was called debtor's retreat. People in Mottram blamed us for the traffic and the Stealing milk off the downstairs. Yeah, everything we got blamed for. The people from Hyde didn't want the Hattersley people shopping there. They weren't very accommodating.

Mark: 22:49

So did the people of Hyde and Mottram not want.

Shirley: 22:52

No, they hated the kids, not wanting the daughters to be coming home with a guy from Mottram, from Mottram.

Mark: 22:55

Not wanting the daughters to be coming home with a guy from Atisley, from Atisley.

Shirley: 22:59

Yeah, you couldn't really tell people that you were from Atisley, could you, when you applied for a job? Well, yeah, our address was Mottram in Longendale.

Janet: 23:08

If you lived on the other side of Stockport Road your address was Mottram. On this side you was Hyde. So nobody said you were from Hattersley. If you could help it, you'd say you were either from Mottram or you were from Hyde. Because as soon as you mentioned Hattersley you know you weren't getting the job. And if you said that you went to Hattersley Comp you weren't getting the job. So when I had my children I sent them to Londondale purely because I didn't want them going through what I'd gone through to try and get a job.

Shirley: 23:38

Right, so you felt like discrimination oh yeah, oh God yeah, and a lot of it was caused by the Moors murderers, Right yeah everybody always, if you say you're from Hattersley, they always bring up oh, is that where the Moors murderers were?

Janet: 23:51

Or Shipman. The Moors murderers were Shipman. I mean Shipman, it was later. It was later, but it wasn't even from Hattersley. But everybody will say all the bad things about Hattersley.

Mark: 24:02

They'll only remember the bad things don't they. And I suppose all the media speculation I was reading something about because of the Moors murderers that there was rumours in school you know like teenage- in schools that if you were from Hattersley you was a murderer.

Shirley: 24:21

You're bad, really bad people.

Mark: 24:24

Yeah, and from what I see, I think it.

Shirley: 24:27

My mother was absolutely spotless in all her cleaning and her garden and everything was beautiful. And people from Hyde or Mottram used to say, oh, you're just all scruffy up there and keep your coal in the bath. You don't have baths, you keep your coal in the bath Because at the beginning of this day they had coal fires, didn't they? Underwood Road that end. And they used to say, oh, yeah, you've all got coal. Yeah, keep your coal in the bath. My mum used to be up in arms because she were always bleaching and cleaning.

Janet: 24:58

I feel very protective about Hattersley, and I mean when I was a teenager and you said you were from Mottram. Now I'm the complete opposite. Now I'm proud to say I'm from Hattersley. And I'll say I'm from Hattersley more than anything.

Mark: 25:16

So one thing right. So, looking back over the years, do you feel that all these people moving in from different areas you've just said it yourself you're quite proud to?

Shirley: 25:24

be Very proud, yeah.

Mark: 25:25

And I see that when I go. What I really like is when I go and meet young people. They've got a Manc accent.

Shirley: 25:32

Yeah, it's not perfectly Mancunian. No, I can tell the difference.

Janet: 25:37

I can tell the difference between your accent and ours.

Mark: 25:40

Yeah, Is there any memories that you can remember, any funny stories or anything like that you can remember from when you first moved here?

Shirley: 25:48

Really really good memories, Loved it.

Mark: 25:50

Is there anything funny that sticks out? What about school? Did you ever get excluded from school?

Janet: 25:58

They didn't really do exclusion then.

Mark: 26:00

No.

Janet: 26:00

I remember me and Shirley and some other girls wagging it in somebody's house. The wagman was looking through the window and we were all lying on the floor giggling. We didn't think that we'd left the back door open and he went round the back and come walking in, and then frog marched us all the way back to school.

Mark: 27:23

That's funny that the wag man they don't have wag men come to your house?

Janet: 27:28

I don't think they do?

Mark: 27:29

do they just exclude you, don't they? Yeah?

Janet: 27:31

yeah, and we had knit nurses as well. I don't think they have them now either, but everybody knew when somebody had knits, because it used to line up and then the nurse would look in your hair and anybody that had nits, she used to nod to the teacher. So the teacher had to write down to get a letter sent home that they had nits. But everybody knew, because that's what they did they nodded at the teacher.

Shirley: 27:55

I think I have memories of really really good school days, secondary school really good days Because we were never there.

Janet: 28:03

I don't remember learning anything. We didn't learn anything?

Shirley: 28:05

We just learned how to be streetwise, how to jib off school. We just went in in the morning, got your mark and you're off.

Mark: 28:15

So that's the thing you know like, because you all moved. Everyone who moved into Wazley was from, like you know, inner city areas. Essentially, wasn't it Go on the Moss side and Moston and all them areas? Was you a little bit more streetwise in Wattersley?

Janet: 28:30

Yeah, we didn't mix really with the surrounding areas. If you were from Wattersley, people didn't come on here and mix with you. We used to go to Hyde Town Hall on a Thursday night for the disco and a lot of the time the people that lived in Hyde and Newton didn't want the Hattersley people there and I remember being on the bus and throw it. They were throwing bricks through the window.

Mark: 28:52

Yeah, on the bus right because you were from out as well, yeah there were lots of fighting teenagers, weren't there?

Shirley: 28:58

Staley Bridge Bridge yeah, gangs fighting Ollingworth?

Mark: 29:02

Who did you used to fight against then?

Janet: 29:03

Hyde mainly, weren't it? Hyde mainly because that's where we went and they didn't want the Hattersley people going to Hyde Town Hall. How did that make you feel? It made us band together.

Shirley: 29:14

More, didn't it? We all stuck together, yeah Right so it probably brought us together as well don't, yeah, because them things do, kind of because we used to all go out as a gang didn't we?

Janet: 29:25

we all surely ended up marrying somebody from staley bridge so going down there to staley bridge when she was dating, I remember you know it was a bit of a taboo that she was with somebody from staley bridge and I went to Copley Youth Club and got battered.

Shirley: 29:42

A load of girls battered me, yeah, because you were different. You were some different from that out in the area.

Mark: 29:48

So what did you do to get your gang back on we?

Shirley: 29:50

did. We all were a big gang from school Get your gang to hang out. We all went down and then we got chased. Lads were swinging chains. I remember running up Matram Road running back to Attersley.

Janet: 30:02

That carried on right through into the 90s, because my son that happened when he was a teenager as well with Staley Bridge.

Shirley: 30:11

Yeah, territorial, isn't it?

Mark: 30:13

Yeah, I think humans are like that, aren't they really? Do you know what I mean?

Janet: 30:17

We can only look at the state of the world today to see that I suppose it goes back to like the Scottish with the clans and tribes and things.

Shirley: 30:28

And don't forget, we were dead different. We had different accents, didn't we? We were like dead Manchester and we used to laugh at their accents. They used to laugh at ours. It was very different.

Mark: 30:39

So you got your gang and you went down there.

Shirley: 30:43

Oh yeah.

Mark: 30:43

So did it all get sorted out in the end?

Shirley: 30:45

Well, it must have because you, yeah, now, as adults, we're quite friendly with people from Hyde, aren't we? It's not like that any more, do you think?

Janet: 30:55

Well, it isn't for us because we're adults, but maybe it is for the kids.

Mark: 31:00

Yeah, well, there's always a bit. There's always that territorial thing. I mean we'd have to get a young person to speak for themselves, but there's always a bit of territorial stuff. Do you think there's a strong sense of pride in Hattersley?

Shirley: 31:11

Oh yeah, yeah, people are proud to be from there, aren't they?

Mark: 31:15

So when you're rocking it up round Staley Vegas, do you like? Yeah, I'm surely happy.

Shirley: 31:19

Yeah, from Hattersley. Yeah, oh yeah. So you've never lost that no no, wherever you are. I'm not really scared of anybody because of living up here, because you had to all your own, janet, didn't you? There was a lot of bullying and a lot of fighting going on at school. You had to act hard, didn't you? You couldn't, and if you had soft, you just got picked on bullied.

Mark: 31:39

So did you used to walk into school like you had some issue?

Shirley: 31:41

Oh yeah, oh, you had to, didn't you? Yeah, you had to stick up for yourself and give it verbally as well. Give it people back, even though you were scared inside. You had to give it back verbally, didn't you? It still goes on today, doesn't it it still?

Mark: 31:56

happens and you forget about them. Things as you get older and you mature and sometimes you think, oh, I wasn't like that.

Demi - Daisy - : 32:01

But, when you're young you do a lot of things, don't you?

Mark: 32:05

Yeah, I suppose that does go on today. It'd be interesting to ask some younger people. So if there's anyone young who wants to come onto the Hats chats and tell us what their thoughts are about this, just leave us a voice note on 07365 223 720. Anyway, we're going to.

Shirley: 32:25

We've got someone very special lined up, haven't we Shirley, I see the time, give her another few minutes.

Mark: 32:33

We're going to phone Shirley's auntie Liz.

Shirley: 32:36

She was originally from my side and she moved up here in 1966, so just a while before me and we used to come up visiting and we thought it were great. I used to stay up here in the six-week holidays with her and me and my cousins Tony and Mark, my brother Graham. We just used to be out, like you said, were you, alizam, all day.

Janet: 32:58

That's what you did. Yeah, we moved up in 66 as well, and I'm the middle one of three girls. You know we moved up here.

Mark: 33:05

So have all your sisters stayed here.

Janet: 33:08

My younger sister stayed up here till about 15 years ago, I think, now maybe longer. She lives in Salford. But my older sister moved off, and then she's moved back on. In fact she now lives in Shirley's old house my. But my older sister moved off and then she's moved back on. In fact, she now lives in Shirley's old house, my house yeah, it's funny to see she's bought it so where did you used to live, sheila?

Shirley: 33:30

John Kennedy Gardens at the very top, at the bus terminus. So we had a little gang there, didn't we? There was a lot of our age you had a.

Janet: 33:38

What a gang a gang of girls, all the same age. We lived just in that area, didn't we? There was a lot of our age. You had a. What A gang? A gang about six of us. Little gang of girls, all the same age. We lived there.

Shirley: 33:42

We lived just in that area, there, didn't we?

Mark: 33:45

What was your call? Did you have a gang name?

Janet: 33:46

No, no, we just meant the gang guys in group of girls, not gang walkers.

Shirley: 33:55

Yeah, used to be gang walkers, so't see Staley Bridges walking, they wouldn't walk on Hattersley. No.

Janet: 34:00

Nobody would come on. Even when you invited somebody. I had some friends from Levensham and they'd even heard about Hattersley and you'd say to them oh, come up. You know, come up and we'll go to the youth club.

Shirley: 34:12

Oh no, I'm not coming up there. Well, how?

Mark: 34:18

do you think Hattersley's rough?

Shirley: 34:20

No not at all, Not even then really, but other outsiders do. Do you think other people think that? Yeah?

Mark: 34:26

definitely.

Janet: 34:27

I do yeah.

Shirley: 34:28

And why do you think?

Mark: 34:28

that is. Because they don't know it. Do you think it's part of the legacy that everyone moved up here from the inner city areas, and it was?

Demi - Daisy - : 34:35

like oh.

Mark: 34:36

Hattersley, that's all them lot that have come from Manchester.

Shirley: 34:39

Yeah, and they must have been scary to other people, yeah.

Mark: 34:42

And then all these other things. Like you know, the Moors murderers and Shipman and stuff, and the Cregan thing has added to that, but I don't think he's no rougher than any of them.

Janet: 34:54

The best of it is, though Shipman was from Hyde, not Hattersley.

Shirley: 34:57

Yeah.

Janet: 34:58

And neither was Cregan from Hattersley. It's just that everybody got tired with the same brush. I moved to Mottram when I was well, when my son was 16, because it was getting rough up here.

Shirley: 35:11

Things were happening Guns and drugs.

Janet: 35:13

And I didn't want him getting involved in it. So we moved to Mottram. We didn't move far, but just down to Mottram, and the day that I moved in, the next door neighbour came out and he said to me oh, welcome to you, know, welcome to this area.

Janet: 35:31

So I said oh, what's it like then? So he said, oh yeah, it's lovely around here. He said, but let me tell you, there's a council estate just down there. Everybody's they don't work. Everybody's on drugs, they, they steal. Um, all the kids have got the latest football shirts. He said, um, and you know, they're all drug dealing. And he's saying that to me and I went can I just stop you right there? I said, because I'm from hattersley as well. I said there's a lot of people on there that work very hard, a lot of lovely people, and they probably buy the new football shirts for the kids because they're trying to give the kids what they never had I said so there's a lot of nice people up there, so don't judge them.

Janet: 36:09

Oh, they've all got. And he said they've all got big cars that they're stealing because they're all drug dealers you get a lot of that, don't?

Mark: 36:16

it's like something you might read in the Daily Mail or something like that, when people generalise about and judge Generalise and judge about people. We live in a bit of a polarised society, don't we? I do get this vision in my mind, of like, when the estate was getting built up, there was these people in Mottram and Broadbrod saying, oh, I don't want them here. They did.

Mark: 36:40

the estate was getting built up, there was these people in Mottram and Broadbrook and saying, oh, I don't want them here they did we don't want all them, them coming from the, the slums, because that's what they called them them terraced houses that if they were built, if they were still built there now they'd be, they'd be selling for about 180,000 pound there.

Mark: 36:56

They would so close to town yeah, the reason why I asked, is it hattersley rough? Is if you go on google now and write is hattersley, the first thing that will come up is rough. The reason being, I think, is because when people are, when they're looking at houses, they're thinking, oh, I don't know if I want to buy that house. The new house that I've been looking at is hattersley rough. Because they've heard, myths, and it's and it's stuck.

Mark: 37:23

I think that's what it is. But that's true that if you write is hattersley in google, type it in and you'll see is hattersley. And they'll say is hattersley rough. I might put it on our social media and see what I get back I'm not.

Janet: 37:36

I'm not saying that when we moved up here that you know, people were rich. Most mothers didn't work, um, you know, they stayed. There were stay-at-home mothers and the dads worked. So you didn't see many of the dads because they were always out at work, but the mums all went into each other's houses and became very close.

Janet: 37:56

And then there was all the pubs on the estate where people got together and mixed, and now we haven't got. There was all the pubs on the estate where people got together and mixed, and now we haven't got that there's no pubs up here, only the hair hills. Haven't um two clubs. This, yeah, there was clubs, so people mixed and met up, so people got to know each other socially, whereas they haven't got that now. And, as I said earlier that most of the mums work now, as well as the dads, so they're not at home all the time. And people come home from work, they're tired, they go in the house, shut the doors, so people are not mixing like they used to when we first moved up here that's really interesting.

Mark: 38:36

We've said we've talked about some really interesting things. Do you think our Lizzie will be ready at your aunt now? Give her a ring. Shall, I ring her up. I've got this new flashy phone that I don't know how to use. Hello, hello, is that Liz?

Liz: 38:59

Yeah, it is love. Yeah, hey man.

Mark: 39:02

Yeah, it's Mark here and we're on Hats Chats and Giggles podcast. Shirley's just given me your number. Say hi, shirley.

Shirley: 39:09

Hiya, you all right.

Liz: 39:11

Yeah, I'm fine Our tone's gone now.

Janet: 39:14

You're live on radio, Liz. Can you hear me?

Liz: 39:17

I can't hear you very well, you can't hear me. I can't hear you very well. You can't hear me very well. No, you'll have to shout. You'll have to shout or I'll have to shout back, I'll have to shout at you, right.

Mark: 39:28

Well, I'm not used to shouting Don't swear, cos we're on air.

Liz: 40:12

Oh God, what are you talking to? Roman Got a mouth like a donor.

Mark: 40:19

Right, we're talking about original people who moved into Hattersley back in the day. Yeah, and we just want to try and get some of your memories of what it was like to move in. What was your first impressions when you moved into Hattersley in the 60s?

Liz: 40:35

I loved the house because I came from my side and that house fell into pieces. I love the house but I was very homesick and I used to go. For three years I used to go back to my side Every weekend. I went back because I never classed as late for five years. When I first came up here, there was no pavements. It was houses plonked in the middle of nowhere, lovely houses, what we'd been used to. There was no, you know, no anything at all. They actually had a mobile shop on one of the roads over there and then, bit by bit, they started building shops and some of the old pubs I mean most of the pubs have gone now. I think I've worked in every one of them overnight. It was like a new world. You went from a very old house falling to pieces to these lovely new houses. The problem was the way you paid your rent.

Mark: 41:38

You'd not have much left for anything else Was it a lot more expensive to live here. Then it was only £1.30 in the house on my side.

Liz: 41:47

I know it sounds ridiculous, but it was £2.65 when we first moved in here. Well, that £2 when you're only getting about £6 or £7 wages made a lot of difference.

Mark: 42:01

So can you just tell us what it was like when you first moved up here? Well, there was two clubs.

Liz: 42:07

eventually it wasn't when we first moved up, but eventually the circles Janet and Sheila knew about these and the British Legion, and when you'd worked all week and whatever everyone went in there, they had Billy Fury, bernard Manning, all things like that on. Yeah, and it was a lovely estate at the beginning but, as I say, it was very desolate, very cold and bleak weather-wise, you know, in the winter. The buses well, the one bus that we did have it didn't start at this end of the estate, it was up halfway down the estate In the winter it didn't turn up half the time. So we had a lovely man.

Liz: 42:49

He had, you know, the old-fashioned milk floats. He delivered milk in that because there was no shops and if we couldn't get to work there was five of us, jean Taylor, quite a few it'd give us a lift down on the back of the milk float down to Hyde to go to North Brothers where we were to whatever, but vans used to come with food. It was quite how can you put it you felt as though you lived in the middle of nowhere then until they started to, you know, build all that they did. As I say, as you know, now there's lots of shops, but I'd rather have it as it was personally than it is now.

Mark: 43:35

Oh, that's interesting. What do you think, janet and Sheila? Would you rather have it as it was, or Back to the good old days.

Janet: 43:41

I like all the shops and different things and the fact that we've we have got some of the shops and stuff that we've got, but they still. They took all the pubs away and the clubs away and not everybody knows each other and, I think, all the new houses now.

Liz: 43:57

They took all the neighbourless and the Janet.

Shirley: 44:00

Yeah.

Liz: 44:03

You know all the good times. You know you very rarely see neighbours. Now a lot would, and even if you know if they don't it's very rare Whereas before years ago we'd all get together. I mean Janet knows this when Mum did the big carnival, we had rose queens, we had parties, we did big Christmas parties for all the children. They don't do anything like that now.

Shirley: 44:28

Trips away. You went away on coaches.

Janet: 44:31

Yeah, my mum was one of the carnival organisers. Yeah, so every Tuesday we used to meet at the Underwood Social Club and talk about what our float was going to be like and what was the theme and we'd spend every Tuesday there was always something going on, wasn't there.

Liz: 44:48

There is now, I don't know now, at the Hull, but I don't really know. Shirley always says you know there's quite a lot on there, but I don't think there's a friendliness and the atmosphere like it was when we were, you know, when you were all kids right.

Mark: 45:03

Are you proud of coming from Hattersley? Then Liz.

Liz: 45:07

I love Hattersley, to be honest, I love it, and it had such a bad name at the beginning nobody wanted to come on it and not you know, all this sat on the other because of the Mauds murders and whatever, and it was sad really, because it was a lovely place to what? Well, what, personally, what I've been used to in my side, but my side was home to me and, as I say, it took me quite a few years. I don't know about anybody else but, as I say, I wouldn't move.

Liz: 45:32

Even if I'm on the pools now, I wouldn't move a lot of people say well, it is a shame Some of the good times with progress, you know it's not the same in that way.

Mark: 45:44

Right. Well, what do you think about all these newcomers? Now, Liz, moving into these houses To be?

Liz: 45:52

honest, it makes you annoyed because, as I say, nobody wanted to move onto Hattersley years and years ago, right?

Liz: 46:00

Now every little bit of spare land they build on it. There's nothing, as I say, for children, very little for teenagers. It's all right them moaning about them all. Half the teenagers are not bad kids and it is a true saying They've got nothing to do, whereas years ago I can't remember teenagers being like they are now. No, I mean, there must be involved. There's nothing to do.

Liz: 46:28

How can you build a lovely big estate like this in lovely land with all this lovely countryside? Kids are not interested in the countryside, are they? And the argument on the estate is they keep promising this and promising that it's been 15 years well over 10, where they've pulled all them lovely, you know them bungalows down over there and they've not done anything with the land. That is what gets older people annoyed, because you know there's no. They're spoiling it all. I keep building on it all and it was beautiful. You know when it was first built. I know it's just one of the times, but you know there must be more to life than going to work and building houses. You know, on this estate, all the friendliness, like I've said, has gone, all the happy memories and whatever. It's the other thing as well. People won't see what we saw, it's the other thing as well, liz.

Janet: 47:20

These people won't see what we saw. It's the other thing, liz as well. There's not enough doctors and dentists. No, there isn't. No, and everybody you see it on Facebook all the time moaning about that. They can't get appointments and they're trying to get through on the phone and they're waiting hours to get through to the doctor or they can't get a dentist.

Liz: 47:41

Well, certainly I've nearly torn my hair out with it, and I'm just one person. Is there anything now at the Hort for anybody?

Mark: 47:50

It's funny. You should say that, liz, because we've got Demet, daisy and Leighton who are going to give us a what's on guide to what's going on in Hattersley. Take it away, guys.

Demi - Daisy - : 48:04

The Hattersley Hub is offering a wide range of activities at the moment. On Mondays there's a baby friendly fitness class 10am to 11.30pm, bowling 12 to 4pm and ESOL English lessons 10am to 11.30am. Tuesdays there's a fantastic art club 10am to 1pm for people of all skill levels and the first Tuesday of the month they have makers market 9.30 to 12 for local crafters in the community. Wednesday has an Overs 50s IT club 1pm to 3pm. Knit and Knit are 9.30pm to 12.30pm, the Ivy Club 1pm to 4pm, tai Chi 2pm to 3pm and curling sessions 1pm to 2pm. On Thursdays there's line dancing 12.30pm to 2pm in the afternoon. The last Thursday of the month has a careers respite dropping session available 12.30 to 3pm. Friday has citizens advice available on site 9 to 11.30 and there's a mental health social group 1.30 to 3pm that people can pop along for a brew, as well as more bowls 12 till 3. They do struggle getting out to people what's available. So where would you go to find out what's going on in the area? Drop us a voice note and give us a call.

Demi - Daisy - : 49:33

Community Garden and the Hattersley Projects is at the Community Garden in the centre of the estate. They run all sorts of growing activities throughout the year and they are always open at the centre of the estate. They run all sorts of growing activities throughout the year and they are always open at the weekend, 12 to 2. Coming up there will be new forest school sessions available from Easter and they will reopen the garden centre on the 9th of May for the summer months. There are also more community activities at the meeting point next to St Barnabas Church Slimming World on Mondays, 6pm to 8.30pm.

Demi - Daisy - : 50:06

Hattersley Health, champions Craft and Music Group on Tuesday, 1.30pm to 5.30pm. Cook and Taste with Tozzi, thursdays, 11.30pm to 1.30pm and the third Thursday of the month. They also hold Parkinson's and Dementia Cafe 1.30pm to 3.30pm and the third Thursday of the month. They also hold Parkinson's and Dementia Cafe 1.30pm to 3.30pm. Every Friday, the Food Bank, 9 to 11, bread and Butter 1 to 2 and Citizens Advice 10 to 2, are presented to help the local community. Kickboxing is on Sundays, 5-6pm, not to mention monthly litter pickers on the last Tuesday of the month organised by the Hattersley Environment Action Team, 10.30-12.30am. Parent and Toddlers Group at the Harrab Church on Mondays, 9-11. Football session for the kids on Tuesday at Kenmore, 5 to 6pm and Mind have A Community has for young people between 8 and 18 on Monday nights at the Old Air Cadet Building, 4 till 8pm.

Mark: 51:13

Well, thanks for that. There's loads going on, isn't there? How about that? Cheering AND APPLAUSE, how about that? Well, how good was that. Thanks Demi, Daisy and Leighton for that. If you're a community group, local business, and you want us to publicise what's going on, just send us a voice note to 07365 223 720. Anyway, back to what we were discussing. Lizzie, what was it like moving up to Haslett? Was it the first time you had a garden and a bath and stuff like?

Liz: 51:51

that it was. Yeah, I might as well tell you I mean just me personally, but I mean most people, people, if you came from my side rank, but I came from my house and, don't get me wrong, I love my side they always will. But at the end of the day we had rats, bugs, you name it, we had it, cockroaches, the bloody lot. So when you came to this brand new house that nobody had lived in, you thought you'd won the lottery. Once the novelty of the house wore off because there was nothing on the estate, which wasn't a good move. When they were building it, they should have at least put something on it.

Liz: 52:31

That's when a lot of people were going back to where they'd come from at the weekend when they'd finished work for the week. They'd go back because you could go out down there and you had happy memories down there. Then for quite a few years this estate was lovely. You know. They built shops and we had communities, like we're just saying, christmas parties for the kids, the pubs you weren't just going to pubs then, dave, just to drink, you know, whatever. There was always some sort of outings or parties or something going on. And then it turned tables again and, like we just talked about, started to build property and every bit of land and closing all the ports, everything it was like shutting down, so it was like a ghost town but you can see that the young people, they have got nothing to do.

Liz: 53:19

No, I know a lot of the time, mark. You know things are built for them and youth clubs and all whatever. But like John and Shirley and my kids they're in the 60s like I say, they went to the youth clubs and all this, that and the other and the things at school and whatever. That was great, but a lot of teenagers are not like that anymore. It's the difference between, regarding computers or, you know, building motorbikes, anything in that way. That's the level of the teenagers now. They won't go to a youth club. You know and I know in the past they've had ample opportunity to go, but a lot of them won't. Whereas if you see a gang of boys and they did something on this estate to make them interested in it, something that technology like it is in this time of life, I think some of them would do it. So it gives them more money.

Mark: 54:19

But listen, liz, can I call you Liz there, or is it Liz?

Liz: 54:22

you can call me what you like.

Mark: 54:23

I've been called more than Liz in my life thanks for letting us ring you up, and I'd love it if you could one day come into our podcast studio. Yeah.

Liz: 54:36

I mean, this is the second time I've let you down, but you seem to live a really chaotic life, but I live a funny life.

Mark: 54:46

Right, we all do, don't we?

Liz: 54:48

I promise I will come. You won't be able to get bloody rid of me if you say so, darling.

Mark: 54:53

No, I want you down here. We've got lots of things to discuss. I've got a board here with loads of things that we want to talk about. Do you think Hasley's rough?

Liz: 55:02

No, no, wherever you go there's a rough element, but if you really needed help or anything, people on Hattersley, they're very protective of each other as well, because you know we weren't wanted in the first place, like I'm telling, selling at the beginning, even the shops in motta and whatever they didn't want to serve. You know, you think you'd come from land's end, but now people, even though you don't see them very much, we'd all help each other, even even now. I don't know whether other states do do, but I know this estate does it and it annoys me. You know, when they class it it's like ooh, you don't live on Attersley, do you? I've had that for years. You come from my side. What is the difference? Wherever you come from people you know some bad, some good. They will always help you. Never seen you without.

Mark: 56:00

What they say is it's not where you're from, it's where your head's at. Listen, I'm going to let you go. Thanks for contributing to this show. Is there any funny characters or any funny stories before you go that you can?

Liz: 56:14

Oh Jesus, now you, you won't be able to broadcast the print that I come out with Could write a bloody book and it'd be a bestseller, and I'd like to imagine me being a bestseller.

Mark: 56:26

I would be well, listen, I'm going to let you go.

Liz: 56:33

Thanks for contributing and take care we only hope it's helped you because you know it's many, many years to live, nearly 60 years.

Mark: 56:43

Well, you've gave us a great insight into what it was like back in the day, and I think you should come into some more of our podcasts. We've got loads of subjects. We're going to talk about the cost of living crisis. We're going to talk about antisocial behavior. We're going to talk about the community and technology.

Liz: 57:02

You sound very young, my great-grandson. Your voice is very young.

Mark: 57:08

Oh well, thanks for that, Lizzie. I use Isle of Ulay. I put tea bags on my eyes, but I've got a great voice for radio, oh good.

Demi - Daisy - : 57:17

But listen.

Mark: 57:18

I really look forward to meeting you and coming down, alright.

Liz: 57:22

Just put down any questions and I'll answer them, but some of the funny things it'll all be about me because of my language and some of the things I've got up to. That isn't what you want. You want to help the community.

Mark: 57:39

What we'll do. I want to hear some of them.

Liz: 57:41

I'll publish it on how you record it and tell you the truth.

Mark: 57:47

But listen, it's been a laugh and a bit of an insight and I look forward to meeting you in person.

Liz: 57:53

Thanks for ringing me love. I will tell Janet. I'll get in touch with Brenda Ward if I can.

Janet: 58:01

Yeah, I've already suggested Brenda.

Liz: 58:03

Yeah, you know they're 80-odd, but a lot of them have gone. They've all died. You look here, I'm still here. Anyway, you better get what you want out of me before I'm gone.

Mark: 58:16

Right right, We'll have you in the podcast studio. Make sure we get our money. All right, love. See you.

Shirley: 58:19

Right right, We'll have you in the podcast studio. Make sure we get our money.

Mark: 58:21

All right, Liz. See you later, Liz.

Shirley: 58:23

See you later. See you later. See you later. Bye now Bye.

Mark: 58:27

Oh, how good was that.

Shirley: 58:29

It was really good, right?

Mark: 58:30

well, we're going to have to wrap it up now because you need to go again. You've got busy lives and Surely, janet, it's been great. We're just going to put your hands together, folks, for the and a big shout out to Lizza. You've been listening to Hats, chats and Giggles podcast. If you want to contribute to our podcast series, send us a voice note on 07365 223 720. You can also follow us and like us on facebook, instagram, twitter and, yeah, tell us what your thoughts are, what you should have on this show. Thanks for listening, folks. Until next time, don't forget to tell your grandma thanks for the rabbits. Turn on, tune in and rip the knob off to hats, chats and giggles podcast. Peace.