John Eaton-Griffin's Cloudy with a chance of Dyslexia.

Where Neurodiversity Meets Talent

• John Eaton-Griffin • Season 1 • Episode 4

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When Lottie was diagnosed with dyspraxia at age nine, she couldn't have known this "difference" would become her greatest professional strength. Now leading global talent acquisition at Ethicode after eight years in tech recruitment, she reveals how neurodivergent thinking creates exceptional recruiters.

The journey from journalism and PR to recruitment wasn't planned but proved surprisingly natural. Lottie discovered that the relationship-building skills central to communications work transferred perfectly to connecting candidates with opportunities. More significantly, growing up as someone who felt misunderstood cultivated extraordinary levels of empathy – now her superpower in an industry where understanding human motivation is everything.

This empathic approach extends beyond individual recruitment. While working in Australia's cybersecurity sector, Lottie founded a meetup specifically for women and neurodivergent professionals after repeatedly finding herself the only woman at industry events. The gatherings quickly grew to 100+ attendees, demonstrating the hunger for inclusive spaces where people can authentically connect.

The conversation explores practical strategies for thriving as a neurodivergent professional in high-pressure environments. From establishing clear organizational systems to setting firm work-life boundaries, Lottie shares how she transforms potential challenges into strengths. She also explores how AI might level the playing field by handling administrative tasks that tax working memory, while emphasizing that human connection remains irreplaceable.

Perhaps most fascinating is the discussion of how neurodivergent people often connect deeply with one another through shared experiences of navigating a world not built for their minds. Whether in personal relationships or professional networks, there's a recognition between those who've had to work differently and think differently throughout their lives – creating bonds built on mutual understanding and appreciation for diverse perspectives.

Meet Lottie: Neurodiversity in Recruitment

Speaker 1

Hi everyone and welcome to Cloudy with a Chance of the Selectia Today. We're really delighted to have Lottie, who is the global team lead for talent acquisition at Ethicode. She's spent over eight years in tech recruitment and working on both agency side and in-house with software companies. But before her career, lottie gained a lot of experience in relations with marketing and she did a degree in journalism too, which is quite incredible. I want to dig into that. Her connection to neurodiversity is really personal. So lottie's body was diagnosed when she was of dyspraxia at the age of nine, in terms of how it affects speech, coordination, social skills, etc. So our partner as well. Um, I think this is where our neurodiverse brains sort of connect for some reason. So living and sharing what it's like to navigate this neurodivergent world is really interesting. So, eloti, you've had such a vibrant past, starting in PR communications. Eventually, your niche in tech talent, which is where we met, sparked what pivoted you to move across to the tech world. Why did you decide that?

Speaker 2

Yeah, good question. I kind of fell into it, to be honest. So obviously, as you mentioned, my background was in public relations degree, in journalism, and then I went on to move to London work for travel PR agency, you know, working with mainly travel and lifestyle clients, and you know helping them with their communications and selling to the media that kind of thing. Um, got the travel bug naturally from doing that and then went traveling and ended up in Australia, loved Australia, was really keen to stay, and I was actually applying for a marketing role and a recruitment agency contacted me and they were like you know, you need a visa to be in this particular role. However, have you considered recruitment because we can hire you and give you sponsorship to stay in Australia? And I was like this is amazing, like absolutely.

Speaker 2

And so ended up working for Hayes, one of the largest recruitment agencies in the world in marketing recruitment, and fell in love with it pretty quickly.

Speaker 2

I also learned pretty quickly as well, just like the similarities between PR and recruitment in terms of needing to build relationships, build connections and obviously the sales side of things as well and branding. So there was a lot of similarities and yet fell in love with it and then moved into a boutique agency doing more kind of tech and cyber security style recruitment, which was very different. And yeah, I actually moved back to the UK about three years ago now and went back into communications for a little while doing kind of copywriting and and comms for tech companies and I really missed recruitment and I really miss working with people and I miss being part of the talent function. So that's when I kind of went back into recruitment and realized that it's where I wanted to be long term. So so, yeah, I kind of into it but it's really worked out for me and it fits me and my values and what I want to do really well.

Speaker 1

So your passion for diversity and inclusion means that it's really evident, it really comes across right and this is really important, especially in the tech world, as you know.

From PR to Tech Recruitment

Speaker 2

You know it's the split between men and women it's still not nowhere near where it needs to be. And how do you, how do you work towards that lottie and be interested to know I know you champion this cause how's it going? Yeah, it's really important to me. As you touched on, I ran a meetup when I was in australia women in cyber security sydney and that was focused on creating a safe place for women um and neurodivergent women in particular to kind of connect and feel safe.

Speaker 2

I found a niche in cybersecurity recruitment when I was living out there and working in agencies and I was going to events and often I was the only female in the room in these events.

Speaker 2

You know it was very it's a very male dominated industry as a whole, but specifically cybersecurity.

Speaker 2

So I wanted to kind of create a space where women could come together.

Speaker 2

And, yeah, I ended up kind of building this kind of event um network and we were getting up to 100 people per event turn up, which was amazing, and I was getting feedback from women that you know I was really providing them with a place where they could comfortably connect with others without feeling, you know, intimidated or like they were only they were the only female there.

Speaker 2

So I get really, really passionate about it, really enjoyed that, and obviously it was. It was a way for me to build my own network and connect with others as well, but it was just so rewarding and such a rewarding way to do that and I think I carry that now. I really am passionate about diversity and I think that comes from a place of being neurodivergent myself and being a woman in tech myself as well and understanding how it can feel to not really fit in or feel that you have a place and and I want to make sure that you know I'm creating a place where people feel accepted and and particularly in the hiring process, feel welcomed and like they can be themselves as well.

Speaker 1

So if that answers your question, yeah, yeah, I mean I would say definitely in the hiring process I felt very connected and the ability to share that myself being dyslexic myself and you know, as an older generation, you know to be able to share that it's a little bit more difficult because the way we've been brought up, the way, there's not as much openness around these challenges.

Speaker 1

And I think one of the things I'm really excited about is how we can start using things like within the organizations we work for to really support that change within organizations, Because obviously it's a transformation, it will take some time, but I think definitely the capabilities are there to help organizations build in tools to help neurodiversity within organizations make it that much easier. So, in terms of your journey really and I'm probably going a little bit off our conversational line here, but when you were nine years old yeah, going back to like when you started and that got diagnosed how did that impact you at school? What challenges did you come up against there and how? Now, how do you think you've changed in terms of your working style?

Speaker 2

Yeah, absolutely. I think being diagnosed was actually a little bit of a relief, to be honest, because I'd kind of grown up knowing that I was different and knowing there was things wrong. And you know my parents were like, why is she so clumsy, why has she got all these speech problems and why is she having problems in social situations? So I think being diagnosed was a bit of a relief and it gave me some answers behind. You know why I was different to other kids at school. But in terms of the challenges, I think for me, you know, a key one is was speech, and I went through a lot of speech therapy.

Championing Women in Cyber Security

Speaker 2

So dyspraxia is essentially a neurodivergent condition which slows down the messages from your brain, the rest of your body. So it affects things like coordination, balance and obviously speech as well, because it's harder for me to form the right kind of speed and movement in my mouth to create words. So I had to go through a lot of speech therapy. That was a key thing for me. But also things like organization. So dyspraxia impacts your working memory. So I've had to work really hard to, you know, make sure that I'm organized, that I know what's happening, that I know what I'm doing that I know what's what, where we're up to and where we need to go next.

Speaker 2

I've formed a lot of patterns around kind of admin and making sure my calendar's up today, because, yeah, at school it was often a case of, oh no, I forgot on my book today or oh no, I forgot to do my homework. So it's like it's been a process, yeah. So I think the key things at school was that, but also just socially, because I was a bit different and you know, dyspraxia can make you a bit awkward or make you seem like you're not quite, I don't know, fitting in with other kind of social norms. So I think that was a key thing. But I think that's kind of given me a lot of empathy, which I bring to recruitment as well. You know, being growing up, being misunderstood or being different, you grow a lot of empathy for people who are different. So I think whenever I'm recruiting or working in D&I, empathy is at the forefront of everything that I do and that's really what I think I've gained from being a neurodivergent person.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and you know, in a society where we're trying to move so fast and especially with you know the speed of which you move within recruitment and how structured it can be I can imagine that being a real challenge. One of the things that I do when I focus is listen to very, very dull music. You can get on spotify, you know, but that allows you to, um, define that, that or build that separation right of time. Yeah, um, and also that you don't get distracted. So I move, I remove a lot of distractions, you know, because there's so many things, especially with this world of social media, that can distract you very easily from the task at hand. So breaking my day down into 15 minute blocks and being very structured is really important Because I want to be it was almost like you want to be distracted because of the condition, but you know you need to get the work done right. So sometimes that happens and you want to help as well.

Speaker 1

Well, I think one of our passions is where we love to help other people, right, but that can also, you know, saying no is something that I've also learned is no, I'm, I've really got a ton of things to do. You know, it's because you're passionate to help people, but you need to sort of take a step back sometimes. So, in terms of global talent versus sort of local talent, in terms of the cultural regional differences that you've noticed in hiring practices, because you do right across FD code, right, you're doing the whole of europe, right, and and and the states as well, because I imagine that's very different, right? So how do you manage that? I mean, I read a book called the culture, the culture map, which is all about how people are different in terms of how they speak in different languages and also how they culturally different in terms of how you connect. So how do you keep that, that unified way of working when you're dealing with all those different cultures?

Speaker 2

that must be really interesting, actually in your it is interesting, yeah, and I've worked in a few different companies now where, you know, I've had to cover recruitment on a global level, not just locally, and I think naturally there is differences in terms of, you know, culture, but also things like employment law and different ways of working and different quirks and different opinions on how job ads should go out and what should be featured in them, and obviously different salaries as well and different markets.

Living with Dyspraxia: Challenges and Strengths

Speaker 2

So there's loads of different things to consider when you are working globally. So it can be tricky to really have one defined process and and and be kind of unified in in the way that we recruit. But I think the one thing that you have to kind of bear in mind is the company mission and what we want to achieve as a company as a whole, and that has to remain the focus, as well as, obviously providing a strong candidate experience and, you know, making sure that you're providing a positive experience for both hiring managers internally and also the candidates, no matter where they're located or where we're hiring. So the focus is always okay what are we achieving as a company and what do we want to achieve, and how can we achieve that through this, through this hiring process. So, yeah, there's always quirks to consider and that is definitely a challenge, um, but you know it's, it's. The focus has to be remain on how do we make the choice candidate feels comfortable and included and how do we provide, create a positive process.

Speaker 1

Well, you've talked a lot about the candidates, right, but how about yourself? In terms of recruitment is really high pressure, right? You know it's also quite emotional. Emotional, isn't it? I imagine? You know you can get tied in and then you have to go and tell somebody no, you know, and and that must be really hard. So how do you, how do you separate and stay grounded and do you have a like a leadership principle or something that you would say if you were young in recruitment, just coming through, how do young recruiters cope with that? Or how do people who are neurodiverse and in recruitment, how they cope with it? How? What coping mechanisms have you used? And you know what works, you know, is it a nice cup of tea or you know?

Speaker 2

yeah, it's interesting because, as a neurodivergent person, I picked probably the two most brutal industries to go into. I went into.

Speaker 2

PR and then I went into working in recruitment agencies and obviously agency side was very brutal. You know it was high targets. It was one day, you know, you could make a placement. The next day the candidate withdraws.

Speaker 2

And it is difficult because you're working with humans. You know, typically in sales you're selling a product. In recruitment you're selling a person and they have their own emotions and their own way of doing things and their own life circumstances that can change in an instant. So I think for me the number one trait to have above all else in recruitment is empathy and that's what kind of keeps me going. And you know you're working with people who have their own kind of life complexities and I think the main reason why recruiters fail is because they aren't able to put themselves in the candidate's shoes and they can destroy relationships by ghosting candidates or not taking time to understand their motivations.

Speaker 2

So I think taking the time to really understand what a candidate's motivations are and etc. Can really help because, yeah, one day you can make a placement and the next day they can be like oh no, sorry, my circumstances have changed. So I think having that kind of empathy is really important. But in terms of myself and how I look after myself. It's tricky, I think, having a solid network around me. You know I'm lucky enough to have really great friends and family around me who, after a really bad day, I can kind of run to and be like this has happened and I'll be like it's fine. You know, let's go out for a drink or let's do this and I think so I think having the right people around me and the right team as well.

Speaker 2

I'm really lucky right now in my particular team that I work in. We always kind of keep each other accountable, but when you know things go wrong, we we're there for each other as well. So I think having the right people around you is is great, and also taking time for yourself. I think in my 20s I was very much focused on, you know, progressing my career and working long hours and burning myself out, whereas now I've kind of learned that to to deliver the quality of work I want to deliver, I need to take time for myself as well. So, you know going for regular walks, not working crazy hours. You know having a set kind of finish time and making sure that, okay, I'm leaving work behind. Right now I'm going to focus on me, and that's really helped me because, yeah, I think when you're burning yourself out, that's when things can can go wrong and that's when the the quality of of the work that you're providing kind of goes down as well.

Speaker 1

So so, yeah, that's that's what I would say yeah, no, I really like that, uh Lottie, because I mean, the external view of recruiters sometimes can be quite brutal too, and I see a lot of like negative feedback from people. And you know, fundamentally, out of a lot of people, you have to sift through a huge amount of candidates, so it must be really challenging. You know, getting it right is, you know it's going to be hard, right. So I actually have a lot of empathy for recruiters because I think some of them are bad, right, and you know, like anything, you're always going to get good and bad. You're going to get one end of the spectrum I think it was. You know, if you think about 360 million people in America, you're going to have really, really bad people at the top and at the bottom. You're going to have Mother Teresa and you know fantastic people right, but you're always going to get bad people and you can't avoid that. So you have to use a matrix to do that. You have to use a tick box to some extent, don't you? So to identify the goods and the bads right, and that takes time, and I think we've got better at it as a society. I think we've got more people in HR, more people in human resources and people complain about that too.

Speaker 1

But actually it's to protect not only the organization, which you do need to protect, because not only the organization which you do need to protect, because that's what, that's what creates the momentum for business, you know, in terms of good things and creating good for society, but you also need to get that balance right and that's why it's such a challenge right. But you know, I'm glad, I'm glad you enjoy it anyway, because, uh, you know it's, uh, I can imagine, just like sales it's, it's. It's a challenging industry. You know you're always going to get no's, you're always going to get bad months, you're always going to get a quarter that doesn't look so good, that that is part part of it. But as long as you're always building, and I always see what you do is that any sales process is a process, but it's a process and an art.

Speaker 1

So the empathy bit is the art side, I think, in terms of my thoughts of it, you know, the artistic side is you know you're right, you should treat your clients like human beings. They are human beings. They're going to act, not like the book. They're not going to act in the same way. The book says Well, hang on. My sales book says this it should give this outcome. How come that's not working? I'm following this process. How come that's not working? That's not true, right? We're all humans, we're all going to have a good day. You might phone me on a bad day, you might phone me on a good day. Anyway, look, I'm going off track a little bit, but that's that's me, that's my no, but? But one thing you mentioned actually was yorkshire tea. Right, and it's one of my favorite teas, by the way.

Speaker 2

It's like nice, amazing, isn't it?

Finding Balance in High-Pressure Environments

Speaker 1

yeah, and dogs, dogs, right, yeah, I love dogs. I think they're a real we pups just down here. Actually, they're a real good stress reliever. So I I me and my wife we walk the dog six o'clock in the morning, really early. Start get out, walk the dog, yeah, and these days are great. It's lovely and light, but during the winter it's it's pretty brutal.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you know, we got head torches and things like this. So, yeah, so what, what in your, your role, how do you find the joys? And, uh, you know, how do you, how do you find those cups of tea and the dog thing? How do you find the joys? And, uh, you know, how do you, how do you find those cups of tea and the dog thing? How do you get that balance right? Because I'd say they're really good sort of powerful character indicators in terms of what's important when you try and find out, when you try and um, I'll give you an analogy.

Speaker 1

A friend of mine gave me this and he said sometimes we carry our bags and we keep filling up the bag and then it gets harder on our shoulder and then it gets heavy and it weighs and we carry this bag around and we, right, and deciding what that that thing I take out the bag is could be a lot of things, right, but you need to decide because otherwise you're going to you're never going to keep carrying that stuff. So you need to unpack that bag sometimes and put the stuff down that's not important and throw it away. Yeah, so what are those things? Those? What would you say makes a workplace more human? How people connect. You know, and I'm not saying about the organization you work for now, I'm talking about what? What do you find are those things?

Speaker 2

that cup of tea that you know what would you say is a like the indicators you look for? Yeah, no good question. I think, like you say, those kind of small joys are so important in the workplace because you know we spend the majority of our lives at work. So it's really important to kind of find those moments of joy and connection, because otherwise what's the point right? So you need to find those moments for me, like in every video call I have with candidates and with and internally as well, I'll always kind of, you know, have some chat about their personal lives, what they're excited about, what they're up to, what they're doing on the weekend, because you need to have those kind of moments of humanity and and connection.

Speaker 2

I think so that that's what I really enjoy, because if you're just kind of talking about work and connection, I think so that's what I really enjoy, because if you're just kind of talking about work and you know corporate jargon all day long, it's going to grate on you. So I think for me, kind of finding those moments of humanity and seeing beyond the kind of corporate talk is really important for me. But yeah, I think for me personally yeah, I mean I work from home most of the time and my dog's obviously at home as well. So whenever I have a bad meeting I'll straight away go and like spend some time with my dog. It always cheers me up, so that's that's. That's that helps me out a lot and, like you say, cups of yorkshire tea never a bad idea yeah, my dog, my dog, yeah, my dog's very important, but I have this on my, my board.

Speaker 1

I don't know if I can show it. I should be able to show it, but I have next, yeah, so I wipe something off. If something doesn't work out, I just wipe it off the board, yeah, and then go next, right, next thing, because because then and it's done right, because sometimes we, you know, if you, if you're just always creating action, um then, and you don't have to think about it and I listened to a program the other night. I thought, oh, that's really relevant, yeah, that's really relevant to life. It was actually a series on Netflix or Apple TV or something called Stick, and it's about Owen Wilson.

Speaker 1

He's a broken down golfer and he's like I've heard about this, yeah it's quite a good series, and his friend is like used to be his caddy and his caddy goes to him. Do you know? He said, if you spend all your life looking in the rear view mirror, you're going to drive the car off the road and that's what's happened to you. Yeah, I thought that's so true, that's that's so nailed on that. I know a lot of my friends that they spend a lot of time doing that and I try, and I try and speak to them and go yeah, but you can't, you can't hang on to that. That's that's gotta go.

Speaker 1

Um, so so I think, I think, with the way our brains work as well I don't know whether you find this, as you know somebody who isn't there you can overthink things sometimes, you know, and you can spin things in your head that aren't that important and and it's about learning tactics to refocus and and ignore those things because they're, you know, because our brains are so wired to, I think, empathy I think we are very wired to empathy that empathy then hurts the other way, right, as if it's a negative, if it's something negative that comes back and we need to absorb that, but then take some time to take the structural criticism sometimes, or the negatives, and actually break them down and say actually, yeah, that makes sense. That's something that I could get coached on, that I can learn that makes sense, that's something that I, you know I could get coached on.

Speaker 1

You know I can learn um. So one of the things that um, I'd say as well, was, in terms of trends in tech and workplace culture and recruiting, what would you say would be the next chapter for work life? I mean, I think ai is going to make a massive shift. Yeah, and and again, it's really exciting because, yeah, I think it's a bit like the to me, like the printing press. Yeah, when that was launched, it's really exciting because I think it's a bit like the to me, like the printing press. Yeah, when that was launched, it's the Dutch that did really well. The Dutch actually read like crazy, had libraries and things like that, and this is a new opportunity, a bit like that.

Speaker 1

You know it's to leverage this technology in the best possible way, but also in a safe way, and I think it can level the playing field for people who are neurodiverse. Way, and I think it can. It can level the playing field for people who are neurodiverse and even those that aren't necessarily as privileged as I am. You know, personally, you know, to make sure that other people get access to these tools and can use them. That that benefit society, I think, and that and that.

Speaker 1

I think that's the the shift with me. It's all about the ethics behind it and also making sure we have a good approach to what we're doing so that we don't end up, like you know, in the days of witch hunting and go and do the wrong things right. I mean, we spent 200 years hunting witches, lottie right, so we don't have a good track record. Sometimes, you know, it's like you know, in terms of building societies that are completely wrong and actually put us backwards 200 years really, you know, and then we had to go and fix. We have to go and fix all these problems that we created recreate exactly yeah, and I'd hate us to go down that wrong direction.

Speaker 1

You know, and you can see some of the behaviors. Sometimes you think, okay, I need to work in the positive direction here, so so, so, yeah, so. So, like you, look what your thoughts on ai, what your thoughts in terms of how it's going, how that, how you think that's going to, how would that help somebody specifically like you today? Do you use it to help you?

Speaker 2

Yeah, absolutely, and again this isn't a direction of travel.

AI's Role in Recruitment and Neurodiversity

Speaker 2

I think you have to embrace it because it's not going to go away and I think you know we have to learn to use it and I stay jobs. I think there's always going to be scare tactics around anything that's new and that's happening with AI right now. There's a lot of scare tactics and fear mongering, but ultimately, I think you know it can help us. I think you know for myself, as someone who struggles with organization and admin and and things like that, AI can take a lot of that heavy load off in terms of, you know, reducing manual errors or, you know, scheduling interviews for me, or there's a lot of that heavy load off in terms of, you know, reducing manual errors, or, you know, scheduling interviews for me, or there's a lot of different things that it can do. So I think it's all about embracing that. It can also, you know, screen resumes for me. So when I have, you know, 200 applications to go through, it can process them and tell me which ones are the strongest, and it saves me so much time, which I think, as someone who is neurodiverse and can struggle with heavy workloads. It can just take that load off. So I think it can be really, really great.

Speaker 2

I think what it can't do, though, is, you know, replace humans, and recruitment is all about people and it's all about building relationships, and we can't completely replace that with AI.

Speaker 2

We can use it to, you know, enhance what we do and improve what we do, and use it to take all the kind of admin and that stuff off us so we can focus on improving the candidate experience, improving the hiring process and improving our relationships with hiring managers, because we'll have more time to do that without having to do all of the all of the admin-y things.

Speaker 2

But, yeah, it can't replace humans. We need to still provide a personalized experience where every candidate feels seen and heard and isn't just receiving automated messages. So I think we need to make sure that we're still picking up the phone or having video calls with candidates and not just relying too much on AI. But, absolutely, I agree, I think that it can help everyone, not just neurodivergent people, in their roles, and and while you know it can be scary to embrace something new, I think we it's going to change things, no matter what, and I think we might as well see it as a positive and use it to our advantage yeah, I mean one of the um, one of the, because, because of my dyslexia, one of the things I followed I think I shared it with you.

Speaker 1

Actually, um kate greek, he's um got this charity called made by dyslexia, which is a positive. I think a lot of charities they focus on the negative sides, whereas she talks about the people like alanda bloom, like um richard branson, like jamie oliver. You have gone through the pain. They've, they've not been recognized at school. That um, she's very much focused on changing that and I think that's a you know, one of the things that um, I really want to try and help with is raise that awareness. Look, you can make it. Whether you're neurodiverse or not, you know, but it's the early you can capture the challenges. And and like it was really good to hear, lottie, that you, at nine years old, were diagnosed. But think about all those children that weren't you know, and the things that you may be up to that point your parents thought were challenged. You know, and and you know, for you and me to have that test done, that shows that we have a level of privilege right to get that done. Yeah, and how about those kids that don't right? So it's about me. My passion is about how do we lower the bar of access for those that don't have access to this, because they're clearly super intelligent in certain ways, right, you know, in terms of communication skills, in terms of empathy, in terms of what we probably need in this era of AI that's coming, how do we make sure we capture that generation, because I think we'll find more people?

Speaker 1

The art of communication, in terms of conversational communication, is definitely being impacted through technology in a not always a positive way. Right, you know, we're not necessarily getting in the same room together as much as we should, I think. So that's why I'm really keen on um doing face-to-face meetings, if I can. I was actually thinking before this session is how could I do this outside? It's sunny, right? Why don't we be sitting inside? I'd like to be sitting with, like you know, and one of my, one of um the guys that I interviewed. Actually, he runs something called cloud realities um and his podcast talks about um, technology change. Basically, he talks a lot about that um, but he's a lot funnier. Yeah, it's way funnier than I was like, but he's really funny but he has about four or five people on that make make the room. You know, and that's maybe something you know, we could progress this too right.

Speaker 1

Eventually, you know something where there's more neurodiverse people together talking about these challenges and see how many people can get in the room, but also do it externally as well and introduce more people to it. Do it events, do it outdoors, do it meeting people face to face. So you know, because I think that that, um, you know, while we're we are, while we're not moving to homo deus which is a great book, by the way, which is about the story of life starts with sapiens and then goes to something called Homo Deus. If we can move in that direction, then there's a lot of challenges along the way and organizations are here to help that. So organizations such as Efficode can really help organizations fix all these challenges. So it's quite an exciting time, I think, in in history, lottie. So look, thank you very much for coming on. I have one last question, though sort of one was about obviously, you and your husband met. Do you think neurodiversity brought you together? Was it something? Do you think that connection?

Speaker 2

do it really. I think so, I think.

Connection Through Neurodiversity

Speaker 2

I think it does. I think it definitely helps. I think neurodiverse people in general, like you say, we do have a lot of empathy and but we also enjoy deep conversations and we enjoy discussing moral issues or values, and that's something that I really find and a lot of my friends are also neurodiverse for that reason as well, because we have a lot of shared interests, we enjoy having these deep conversations about life. I don't know why that is about the neurodiversion people and why we feel that way, but I think that myself and my husband to be, we connect over discussing things happening in the world and our values and, um, you know, having those kind of deep conversations and and I think that is very common amongst neurodivergent people but also we understand what it's like to be a bit different, to not have a normal brain and to have grown up in a way that we felt a bit misunderstood. So I think that, yeah, absolutely I think neurodivergence connects over that and I think myself and my husband's being and my friends we all have similarities in that way.

Speaker 1

So I'm not sure if that answers your question, but that's my personal shared experience it's interesting because a lot, a lot of my friends are the other end of the spectrum, like okay, yeah, yeah, so because I do all the talking, they don't say maybe, maybe that's it, you know, and that works right. They do all the listening but, um, that no. It's interesting that because I think maybe maybe my wife's a little bit the other end of the spectrum spectrum as well. But I think it's interesting how that can connect you, because I think we have this incredible ability to almost see the future or see we have a vision of what's going on and we don't know how to connect that yet. It's almost like you know, and that's why we're good at sales or we're good at recruiting or we're good at these things, because we sort of see the answer, but then we have to build the components to actually say why that? Why is that the answer? This is like and and sort of build the structure behind it.

Speaker 2

sometimes I think as well. No diversion people while growing up had to work a bit harder than everyone else generally, to you know, get their homework done to pass exams. So I think in the kind of work sphere as well, we've carried that on and we are very hardworking and very diligent. We are kind of we do try and stay one step ahead because we've had to our entire lives. So I think that's also one thing to consider as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean it's like you're right sort of you want to get going, you want to get a head start, don't you always?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm very much like that.

Speaker 1

I'm already texting people and getting everything ready for starting with you guys next week, right? So, yeah, out of interest. Okay, look, I'm going to stop the recording now, but thank you very much for joining us on.

Speaker 2

Badly With A Chance of Dyslexia and hopefully, we'll get a little jingle at the end soon, which I'm going to be great all right, speak soon, speak soon.