The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Journey to Freedom serves as an exclusive extension of the Living Boldly with Purpose podcast series—a platform that inspires powerful transformation and growth. Journey freedom is a podcast hosted by Brian E. Arnold. The Journey to Freedom is an our best life blueprint exclusively designed for black men where we create a foundational freedom plan. There are five pillars: Identity, Trust, Finances, Health and Faith.
The Journey to Freedom Podcast
From Brooklyn to ESPN: A Journey of Faith and Mental Health
John McCloud's powerful testimony moves from the tough streets of Brooklyn to the corridors of ESPN, revealing how divine timing and personal surrender transformed his deepest pain into purpose. Born into neighborhoods where "nobody is trying to visit," John learned survival before success—a foundation that would later prove essential in his unexpected journey.
The raw vulnerability begins when John shares his post-graduate despair. Despite two degrees and experience with the New York Times, he found himself jobless and questioning everything. "I told God I promised him I'd do everything," John reveals, detailing how he began sweeping church floors and praying faithfully every Friday. "I don't know what's next. But, God, I know that you're all I got and all I need." This surrender became his turning point—"I quit, and that's when God hired me."
Through a seemingly miraculous connection, John found himself unexpectedly interviewing ESPN's president despite having no credentials or invitation to the conference. That relationship eventually led to a position that was specifically created for him. Ten years later, he's now co-founder of ESPN's first-ever mental health initiative, transforming his personal struggles into organizational change.
The conversation delves deeply into mental health stigmas in Black communities. "We were taught survival health," John explains. "We don't have time to be worried about how we feel. We only have time to make it to tomorrow." This powerful examination of cultural programming reveals how many are trapped in patterns of thought that limit potential. John's insights on effective communication, the danger of assumptions, and transforming negative self-talk offer practical wisdom for listeners facing similar challenges.
What emerges is a masterclass in identity formation, faith during uncertainty, and the power of questions over assumptions. John's story isn't just inspirational—it's instructional for anyone navigating the journey from survival to purpose. His book "A 7-Day Mental Reset" and coaching practice continue this mission of helping others unlock their potential through mental transformation.
Ready to break free from survival mode and discover your true purpose? Listen now and learn how questions might be the key to unlocking everything you've been searching for.
Saturday we did pantry, we gave out food to the homeless and less fortunate, and every Friday I showed up and I would talk to God and say, look, I don't know what's next. But, God, I know that you're all I got and all I need at this point, because nothing else seems worth it.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to another edition of the Journey to Freedom podcast, and this is one of my favorite parts of the day, when I try to do them almost every single day or a couple times a day, because I get to talk with people who are making a difference and impacting people's lives. And so when I started this journey and, john, I don't know if you had heard any episodes or things that I did, but I went to a seminar about a year and a half ago it was called the Trusted Edge and it was a really cool dude that was in Minnesota and he talked about leading with trust and what it means to trust how we don't trust, and I started thinking about our community, and you know, I used to say that. Well, one of the themes in my podcast has been people need to see people who look like us in order to do the things that we do. And I told myself, oh, this isn't important, you know, I don't need to know anybody.
Speaker 2:I can conquer the world, do anything, I don't need to know anybody. I can conquer the world, do anything, I don't need to see anybody, right? But I find myself at this seminar 400 people and I'm counting right one, two, three, you know, if I get them, 30 black men and I'm going, okay, there's only 30 of us in there, uh, and you know, some of them are speaking on stage and I just go. I got to come back and I got to help our community and I got to think about our, our community, in a way that can make a difference. And so that started what is now what the Journey to Freedom is. And you know I came up with some coaching stuff and you know some seminars and some workshops and stuff that can just elevate us out of being stuck. And so, as a result of doing that, I started this podcast which is the Journey to Freedom. I'd already had one on. You know that I was creating leads and helping myself, but I said what can I do?
Speaker 2:And so I decided I was going to interview 100 black men last year, and so that was a task itself. I interviewed 105. We're at like 20-something for this year so far, and so I am actually the luckiest man on the planet being able to hear all these stories, whether the people from New York, people from the Caribbean, people from whatever it is and so, as a result, I was also able to take just last week. I took 22 of those men and we went down to Alabama on a civil rights victory tour, and so we started out in Birmingham, we went to Selma, we ended up at the Bryan Stevenson Museum, and so after we get into this tour, these guys are saying you got to take some more people, so we're going to plan another trip in the fall. We're going to take more of the people that I'm interviewing and that kind of stuff down to just see, hey, these are the shoulders of the giants that we've stood on to understand. But then even go further. It's like how do we start preparing our shoulders so that folks can stand out there with the stuff that you're doing and the stuff that you're doing? So it has just been such a great podcast, and then I get to talk to folks like John here where we go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to make a difference and an impact in people's life. I want to make sure that I'm living in purpose and living in, you know, in a way that God would have me live. You know, my prayer every day is to give me the wisdom to do the things you put me on the search to do in a way that pleases you and serves others. And I can do that every day. Oh my gosh, it's going to be so cool.
Speaker 2:So on Sunday nights now I'm doing what is called why Love Wait, and this has been. Oh man, my whole shift is kind of turning into family. I mean, black men are going to be who I spend time with, because when I came back, I was praying and God said I want you. I said I want to work with people who have it, so I want you to work with black men. I'm like God. I don't think I want to work with just black men Because you know, is that where you really have me, and it has been. But on Sunday nights we're doing why Love Waits and I have five women, five men, and we're talking about the destruction of the black family and why it is where it's at and it's just like oh my God.
Speaker 2:So it came from the premise of a statistic 50% of black women over the age of 40 have never been married. 50% have never been married over the age of 40. Then, out of that 50% that has never been married, 75% of them have at least one child. And you go, wow, is that really happening? In the 1960s it was like 17 or 18 percent, and so we have. Just when we're hearing these stories how women have been told don't trust men have separate bank accounts.
Speaker 2:Men are saying I don't want to get married, I don't want to have to give up half already deciding that they're gonna, they're gonna lose out, you say, wow, there is that there's a crisis, and so I really been starting to think about family and work on family.
Speaker 2:So that's why I'm so excited to talk to you today because I know you're doing the things that if we can come together and we can start doing stuff together and start, you know, and from different places, and even if it's part, but we're working on some of the same goals that God would have us to, we're going to make an impact in the events of the world. And so I've asked John to share his story. I've asked John to start whatever part of life he wants, to tell us where he's been, where he's going to, and then we're going to chop it up on some of our pillars and ultimately find out how we can make a difference, the best that we possibly can. So thank you for being on, thank you for being willing to share your life and all that good stuff that we get to do today in this podcast, and go ahead and tell us your story.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, dr B, that is incredible, that is phenomenal. To be able to sit up there and say that you've done all of this in this amount of time is mind blowing, and I commend you and support you on that, because that is so not many people can say that one. I love the fact that God told you to do it too. I love that. I love that you took action on it and you went after it with, with, with, bigger, bigger intent.
Speaker 1:And then the third thing is I love the, not just the level of consistency, but the step further. All right, yeah, we've all spoken, but now let's go and look at history to prepare ourselves for the future. And that transition is so key. And a lot of times we give the next generation the lessons we've learned, the lessons we've learned. But to prepare them, we also have to give, to hold and anchor this new layer of excellence in which the next generations will stand on my shoulders. I think that is so powerful.
Speaker 1:With my story, I'm a I'm a young kid from brooklyn, new york, and I I grew up in the hood. I always tell people it's not the nice parts. Nobody's coming to visit the parts where I'm from. I'd tell you that right now they're still not trying to visit it. And even when you start to think about it, so you think about it there's a couple of neighborhoods. So for all the listeners that may be familiar with Brooklyn, there's Bed-Stuy, there's Brownsville that I grew up in, there's Flatbush Avenue, where I grew up in, and then there's East New York. None of those places anybody is really trying to visit. They go to Williamsburg and Greenpoint and the nice parts, but they never go there, and there's a reason for that, because the stigma about New Yorkers is somewhat true we're not all crazy.
Speaker 1:We're not all you know, aggressive all the time, but that lifestyle teaches you how to survive, and New Yorkers are very good at surviving. So early on I learned how important survival was, but not just from my parents, who are, and I grew up. I grew up in church, um, and just because and just let me make sure I always say this, you know, church wasn't always in me, but I knew about it and I and I would, I would be acting up being a fool because of my environment, trying to fit in in that environment. And when there's a call on your life, and when the when the King is calling you, there is only what. So long you can act like you don't hear the voice calling you.
Speaker 1:And so in life I've been put in several situations that pulled me closer to God, and it was only until later in life I realized that all of those disappointment, hurts, pain, the times I got jumped and all that type of stuff. I've been jumped by nine people and been shot at, stabbed, robbed, all those things, and still god has me here. I I can't tell you the amount of times that you know I've almost died and some of my family don't really even know about. But we're, we're here, right, the big thing was understanding what lessons am I learning out of this pit that I'm in? What am I trying to see? And so I didn't learn anything about mental health. Mental health was nothing, not even close. We were taught survival health. We were taught to hey, we don't have time to be worried about how we feel. We only have time to hey, let's do what's most important to execute so we can make it to tomorrow. We have to make it to tomorrow, that's it. And there was no like hey, I'm going to get a career in doing this. No, it was always we're going to get a job and we're gonna execute. My parents did something. They did two things phenomenal. They taught me and showed me god. And then they showed me how to be a human being in a society where not everybody gets it. And because when you, you take the lessons that you you in life and I took mine and you can make one of two decisions you can learn from it and become a better human, or you can learn from it and become a horrible human. And you look around and there's a lot of horrible humans. You're like dang, what happened along the way that led you here? And mental health was not a part of it. That led you here and mental health was not a part of it.
Speaker 1:I got a job at a multi-billion, went through college, got two degrees, first in broadcast journalism, second in television production. Got a job well, not really a job. I was in grad school, working with five classes and a full-time job and was working for the New York Times and I got to interview LeBron James doing NBA NFL. I was the youngest in every press conference and in the beginning I didn't have respect, but I was living my dream.
Speaker 1:I want to give a big shout out to William Roden, one of my mentors. He's one of you know, it's a Hall of Fame black journalist. Wrote for the Times for almost my mentors. He's one of you know, it's a hall of fame black journalist. Wrote for the times for almost 30 years. He now works at ESPN. Brilliant, brilliant writer and brilliant person.
Speaker 1:That showed me the real ropes and taught me, hey, this this is what you do to survive in the corporate world, in the career world. And because of this interaction that he had while I was basically working for him while in grad school, that experience taught me how the survival tactics of living in the hood transition, but the communication of how we did that was different. See, in order to survive, when you're in those places, you cannot show fear, you cannot show any type of you know, timid behavior, and it's the same thing in the corporate world and nobody teaches you that. But in order to rise, there has to be a level of aggression, a level of intensity. But the difference is how you communicate. You communicate to somebody on the street that I'm not one to be messed with by the scowl on your face you live up to and the level of communication that you establish and the boundaries that you set.
Speaker 1:So in those realms, like I worked my butt off when I was working for the times because I was living the dream, yeah, but the big but the big thing was learning what it takes to not just survive, what it takes to not just survive but sustain and thrive. And those, those are the things that are missing from a lot of times, from the next generation is they don't often they learn. They get either taught how to survive and there's a small population that gets taught how to thrive because they've seen it but when you're in an environment with the highest you've seen someone succeed is get a job at you know, at CVS or Walmart, and become a manager. Some people believe that that's their ceiling and it's no disrespect to anybody that wants to do that. That's fine if that's what your goal is, but when your goals are determined based on your lack of information how people perish because of a lack of knowledge, then there's a switch. That can happen and should happen, and that is okay. There's more out there. But how do I get there? How do I get there when you don't see anybody else?
Speaker 1:So school was the conduit and both my parents they were serious. They were like you're going to get these degrees because we're not playing, it's your ticket. And while I'm a big proponent for learning, I learned most of my lessons, if not a good 85% of them, outside of the walls of school. But I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity had I not been there. So now that transition now and I fast forward and my career and I finished working.
Speaker 1:At the times I graduated grad school, I was one of I was one of three people to walk and we started. And we started with a team, we started with a class of 13. Wow, and a lot of them didn't even didn't even make it. They're living healthy careers right now. But that time was tough and I'm the I'll be honest Dr B, I wasn't even. I wasn't even the best student and I was mentally in a very difficult place. Because the reason why I'm big into mental health now and I do public speaking and coaching and training is because I look back in my community and realize nobody was teaching it, because nobody learned it. Yeah, and that was generation. Yeah, exactly Generation after generation. And so I said, ok, I got to fix that. How I got there was I had to understand that I had to deal with me first.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And in a society where black men are, there's not many conversations about what's going on up here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's always a conversation about how to make more money, isn't?
Speaker 2:that crazy.
Speaker 1:Every time. We talk about making money, but we don't have time to talk about how mentally healthy you actually are.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. The second thing is stats, yeah yeah yeah, the famous folks are or the entertainment, or know more about my home than you know about your kids uh-huh, yep, you know exactly where we're going.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you could quote it and argue that, but we won't. Let's talk about you and how you're feeling mentally. And it's like, oh, I need to talk about you and how you're feeling mentally. And it's like, oh, I need to talk about that. Yeah, and I think I started to because I didn't understand how to do it and I'm going to be honest, I was praying, but sometimes God lets you go through to learn, because if he answered every prayer, you wouldn't actually learn. Well, you wouldn't learn what he meant for you to learn, because if he answered every prayer, you wouldn't actually learn. Well, you wouldn't learn what he meant for you to learn, you'd learn how to depend on him and never actually grow, and that's not what he intended.
Speaker 1:If you see the design of this earth and the things within it, it's designed to change and to get better, and sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. And we miss that because we spend our lives avoiding pain, sometimes survival, the mentality of survival is set. So let's not, let's avoid pain, and anything that puts puts, you know, our comfortability in jeopardy. We don't. I don't know if we we want to do that or that, that or that's just for white folks, or that's just for rich folks, or this, and that mentality because I saw that in my environment.
Speaker 1:I would dream. I was always a dreamer. I was like one day man. At first I was a hooper. I said I'm going to play ball and I'm going to play all over the place, I'm going to make my money, I'm going to put my whole family out the hood. And God said that's nice, that's cute. But no, you're not. Said look, there's 2 million kids doing the same thing and 90% of them got a lot more time than you do. And they're all so taller, faster, jump higher and they literally they need it way more than you do. And so I got into sports to get me there. And it was actually sports that helped me get into New York Times and my knowledge of it, which then changed the game.
Speaker 1:When I finished with the Times, I graduated grad school and I didn't have a job. No job, you job, some prospects. And I said to myself and I said to God, and I was depressed and I said to God, god, why did I do all of that? To have zero opportunities, when this is what they told me was the key to getting the opportunity. This is what they said I should do and I did it, and nobody wants me now Because the thing I should have been getting was experience, and even though I had some, everybody keeps telling me it wasn't enough.
Speaker 1:So when you work so hard and and black men do this a lot we work really hard and then when things don't fall into place the way we imagine it, for some it breaks them it does it does and it pulls them back into the their default setting that they were taught growing up, their default programming, and a lot of times I have to coach and push black men to understand that there is way more out there. If you're willing to put the same energy into the same energy you're using to push yourself down, you use it to push yourself up. And so, understanding and first we have to go through it and then we understand, because everything else is theory until you experience it. Yeah, and I had to, in this process, really dig into okay, there's something going on with me. I don't know how to explain it. My dad bought me a new car and I was happy. My family threw me a party. I was happy, but caged in my mind from the battle of grad school and the toll it took on me mentally. How lost I felt, how vigorous, like nothing was good enough.
Speaker 1:And when you go through that two years straight trying to fight, and then come out drained and tired and depressed and down on yourself and nobody is answering you after you did all that work, I said this was pointless. God, what am I supposed to do? And my dad was like what's wrong? What's wrong with you what's happening Like you have so many good things happening and you have yet to smile and I just blew up. I'm angry all the time and I don't know why Every single bit of me is continuing to explode. I want to fight every single day because it feels like exerting this energy physically is the only way that I can get some kind of relief. But it refills every night. Every night I have to go to sleep and if I know I didn't have any kind of relief, but it refills every night. Every night I have to go to sleep and if I know I didn't have any kind of success, I dread it because I know if I wake up it's going to be the same like yesterday and I did a waste at all. I feel like I wasted all of this time.
Speaker 1:And I had a conversation with my dad about it he amazing man that he is just listened. After he realized how much pain I was actually in. It was through that conversation where I started to realize there's some things that I didn't unpack. That is now my pack is full and I can't fit anything in it and I can't push it down. That is now my pack is full and I can't fit anything in it and I can't push it down and I can't even close it now because things are overflowing and I don't even know where to start with expression.
Speaker 1:And that conversation was the first thing that changed my life, because it was the first time I said what was wrong. I was masking it with action and success. I was masking the pain by going after goals and being relentless. And nothing fazes John, nothing hurts him, nothing can stop him. This dude achieves everything. And inside I was in pain every day and everybody saw my successes. But I was looking at I still don't have a job, though. They said, well, man, you got your degree, you're young and like you got two degrees, that's brilliant. And I was like, eh, I ain't got no job and I don't have any money and I don't have this.
Speaker 1:And that conversation sparked where I had to get a different type of relationship with God, to one of your pillars of faith, and I literally I would open the church, I would clean it, sweep it and then kneel and pray every Friday. Saturday, we did a pantry, we gave out food to the homeless and less fortunate. Sunday I was back there doing what I need to do. And every Friday I showed up and I would talk to God and say, look, I don't know what's next. But, god, I know that you're all I got and all I need at this point, because nothing else seems worth it. And it was in that moment that I quit. I quit that God hired me, and when he hired me it wasn't specifically for the job that I wanted, but it was the job I was supposed to do.
Speaker 1:Because in that pain I found other people in pain, yeah, and I literally was like, oh, I just went through that. Well, have you tried this? And the conversations with them were like man, you know, I was going to do something else and if I didn't talk to you, I was going to do something else. And I'm like, didn't know what that something else was and didn't realize until years later what they meant. But in my head I just said I'm glad you did it. Man, if you need me, call me. And I had nothing to give and I felt like I had nothing to show. But it changed the landscape, because my purpose wasn't built on an artificial goal Get a job, be successful, start making money, start contributing back to home and doing other things.
Speaker 1:And it literally went months without anything. And one day Bill Roden said to me hey, we got together, we did like our last dinner. He says to me he goes what is that? We're checking in and all the teammates that were part of the team that worked for the times, we went around the table and they were saying about their successors, where one was moving to California, one was going to Chicago, got a job I think you know I forget what, what, what station it was. Another was going to Pittsburgh, possibly with the pirates, another was finishing their documentary.
Speaker 1:He got to me and he's like what about you, john? I said I'm doing the same thing I was doing yesterday, applying for a job somewhere. He looks at me he goes what you're doing tomorrow? Like most of the day, I was like the same thing. He said I want you to meet me in man at the Marriott, wear a suit. I said okay. He said okay, I show up with the suit.
Speaker 1:Turns out it's the Namek conference and I didn't know anything about Namek or the conference and I didn't. You know Namek. If you see this, I appreciate the love. I didn't pay for anything. I didn't know what it was. He just told me to meet him and I just didn't know. This is the God and his truth, dr B.
Speaker 1:I didn't know where I was going. I said God, what am I doing here and where should I go? God said go upstairs, just go upstairs, you'll know the floor when you see it. I somehow walked right past the desk in the front, went upstairs People had badges and lanyards and I had nothing. I got terrified and I'm like, oh, they're going to kick me out, they're going to think I'm in a foster.
Speaker 1:I said Lord, I ran into the bathroom, dr B. I ran into the bathroom and I prayed. I said God, when I get out of this bathroom, I'm going, I'm making a left and I'm going in the first door that I see and I pray. That that's it. I got out that bathroom and just walk straight past and people kind of glance and look. I just kept going straight, went into the first door and guess who's sitting in the back of the chair? It's Bill Roden. Didn't know where he was, didn't know and didn't know what the conference was. I was like okay, and he's like hey, john, you made it. How you doing Turns out he's interviewing the former president of ESPN.
Speaker 1:Really, what you don't know, dr B, is when I was a kid and I was a hooper, my nickname was ESPN. Okay, I had a jump shot and and handle and every time I did a highlight play, I'd let the, I let the shot go and then turn to my opponent and go, and it became a thing that just went with me every game, every game like oh, it was like that's espn.
Speaker 1:I was. I loved that. I loved it. I watched it every day for hours. He's interviewing the former president and they're talking about diversity and inclusion and equity in the workplace. First time I was hearing it and he so. He interviews John Skipper at the time and I am. I am just, you know, going through the motions. I'm just like, wow, this is really incredible and it's packed, it's over. You know, I'm holding his stuff because he's interviewing. I said I'll hold your stuff, Like I'm just happy to be here, and he yells to the back of the room in a very, very packed and crowded, because everybody's trying to get to the president of ESPN and shake their hand, get a card and he goes John, come up here, I got some people that I want you to meet. Now how does somebody with no credentials and no past nothing skip a line that's going outside of the door and go all the way to the front? Dr B, you really think that's me on my own, it's all.
Speaker 2:God, right there Exactly. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I shake hands, have conversations, I get a couple of cards and I got invited to go to ESPN and I had never been to Connecticut, I had never seen it, like there was no reason for a kid from Brooklyn to even get there's nothing in Connecticut for me. So I didn't know where I was going. And it looked countries I don't know what and I was like where in the world is this? I get there two and a half hours later and didn't realize that it was like a pre-interview, like a conversation with one of he's like a mentor to me. His name is Chris LaPlaca and we had a good conversation about innovation. They were building new things and it was incredible. He said I don't have anything for you right now, but just keep applying and stick with us. Something's going to happen. And what I did was I went back and did everything. I told God I promised him I do. I was just grateful for that opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I kept showing up taking care of the church, taking care of the people praying every Friday. It was just me and him, just me and God talking. Seven months later I get a excuse me. Six months later I get an email hey, there's this position that opened up. We'd like for you to apply in the same department. That's Chris LaPlaca. Chris LaPlaca, he's considered. He started with the company. The company was founded in 1979. It's then, uh, now he's been there since 1980, so he's basically from one of the original. He's since he retired. He's recently retired, gotcha, he, uh, he goes out his somebody on his team says you know, we'll send it to you. I applied. They were like hey, look, we want to offer you the position. I'm sitting at the dinner table in the hood with my family and I got the call. When I tell you, it felt like I was getting drafted I bet, I bet, oh gosh and I said, yep, all right, thank you.
Speaker 1:Hang up the phone, my family's staring at me. I said I'm moving to connecticut and they, the whole house, erupts because and man, I could, I tell you I could almost cry Because of all the work that I put in, with God before myself, just catapulted into this opportunity, I found out that they actually created that position for me. No one else got applied and when I look back at it now I knew that it was all God, because it was mind blowing. I've been there 10 years and I was a co-founder and co-creator of the first ever mental health initiative. Imagine a black man oh my gosh At a multi-billion dollar company yeah, co-founding and co-creating. And I still co-lead it right now, to this day and 10 years in, and been pushing mental health and coaching people ever since.
Speaker 1:And it started with God giving me a chance in perfect circumstances, in the midst of my pain, and I was like man. I didn't feel worthy or worth anything and I did my absolute best. And would you know, I don't often say this, my dad often says it for me those first few years I drove back every. In the beginning I drove home to Brooklyn, new York, every day.
Speaker 2:Really, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Two and a half hours one way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, I started to live with my aunt and I would drive back every single weekend Because I told God the least I can do is serve you, because you blessed me with this Like my dream. Like nobody in my family ever worked for ESPN or Disney I'm the first. They didn't even know it was possible. And now, because I'm the first, I was able to open up doors for so many people, because people in my hood didn't know it was possible. And now, because of that, that that whole thing changes, change the landscape of mental health, um, where it's now a priority company-wide, and it's from there just gone and blasted, blasted to the, to the, to the heavens and back. So there's, there's a ton of stuff in there, but that's the culmination of some of the most intricate parts of my story so far oh my gosh, what an amazing just this the resilience and the perseverance and the you know and when you're upset and when you're mad and when you're going, hey god, I, I can't do this anymore, you know because.
Speaker 2:But then you go, I'm going to lean on you. You know I don't understand what's happening, but I'm going to lean on you. You know I don't understand what's happening, but I'm going to continue helping with identity, because that's got to be probably the hardest part of the transition is who am I? Because, you know, because so much of our identity sometimes is in what people think it should be, and then some of our identity is in what we believe, who we are, and then, when things don't happen, we jump into this despair and this just unbelievable. I guess this is who I really am. And so how did you persevere with your identity through this whole process?
Speaker 1:Dr B, that's an incredible question for multiple reasons. Let me explain the first reason. I struggled with identity because the first version of my identity is what I believe others wanted to see. And so many of us do this all the time. We cover and we build versions that we think are going to be acceptable, and then, when somebody clashes with that version, you learn okay, maybe I can't do that version with that person. And if you clash with enough people, you start to look inward okay, maybe something is wrong.
Speaker 1:When the thing is, I learned it's not that something is wrong with you, it's that you haven't communicated who you really want to be, because maybe you don't know who you really want to be or should be, because your identity is built into the goals that you set or that were set for you. So you're going to go to school and get an education and then get a job, and you're going to sustain, have a family and make this amount of money or reach for this amount of money, and then life is going to be good. That's how it's going to be, that's what we were told. So we start off going after this American dream and going after it that way, and we find ourselves falling into these crevices and these cracks along the way, and into these crevices and these cracks along the way, and we end up, you know, some of us pull ourselves out of it. Others make homes in the cracks that they fell in last. Yeah, and so it's understanding that with for me, I struggled in grad school a lot because my identity was wrapped up in what I thought my professors wanted to see.
Speaker 1:And one professor and we didn't often get along, but she said something I won't forget. She said eventually you're going to have to tell somebody okay, this is what I want and enough is enough and I'm not changing. She said you can't shift your stories every time somebody has a critique, because then it's not your story, it's theirs. So at some point you have to say, no, this is the story that I want to tell and you cannot keep changing. What she didn't know is that that whole conversation we had would change my entire life and the way I went about things and I decided to be unapologetically me.
Speaker 1:I live by one, by a few quotes, but one thing in particular, and it was said by Charles Barkley. Charles Barkley said, in the midst of great criticism, he said look, somebody has got to be me, it might as well be me. So I, I heard that and something resonated deep within my soul that I would never change. And I, I'm a very lovable person, I'm a very direct person and sometimes I believe in being a straight shooter. And some people can't handle that. Yeah, absolutely. So my identity was wrapped up in well, get John to say it to them, get John to handle this, get John to do this, get John to do that. And I didn't know that what I was becoming was a problem solver. I also didn't know how powerful problem solving actually was, how powerful problem solving actually was.
Speaker 1:And so when I realized that first I don't know, I don't need to I never really cared what people think but I cared about how my actions affected people Because I would see what I would say or do and how acting myself would change and that would internally change me in a bit. Until I realized you know what I would say or do and how acting myself would change and that would internally change me in a bit. Until I realized you know what how people feel is not your concern, john. It's not your. It's only your concern if you were intentionally trying to hurt someone or trying to do something with evil intent. But if you did it with love and respect and they don't like it, then that's on them.
Speaker 1:And I learned that the big thing in my identity was I'm communicating the wrong thing, so they're building assumptions off of something I'm communicating. So in order for them to change, I must first understand how I'm communicating. So I order for them to change, I must first understand how I'm communicating so I teach the next generation how to effectively communicate by asking questions, because that's the first thing I had to do. Your identity will be determined by how you respond in situations, whether that's a regular conversation, a conflict, a happy moment or whatever problem. That's where your identity is going to be wrapped up in. So if you're a type of person that doesn't like conflict and you run from it. Well, your identity is going to be OK. He's a coward, he's going to apply. Enough pressure he or she they're going to fold. Enough pressure he or she they're going to hold.
Speaker 1:And when you, when you think about that, you look at people's mentalities and how they go after things, it's based on a lot of their identities, based on something they don't want others to see. And when you don't want somebody to take something, see something or get a version of this, then you will behave and act certain ways to protect that thing that you want to hide. Well, I made the determination I'm not hiding, nor do I care what people think, as long as I'm not hurting anybody. And I learned to communicate that in a better way. Because the first version of that, as you can imagine, a kid from Brooklyn, new York, in the hood just saying what's on his mind, especially when you're taught to survive and you're like, hey, we don't play no games over here, playboy, don't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what those words were like yeah, exactly, and it's true, the Lord.
Speaker 1:I can imagine him like oh, here we go, come on, man, Get it together. And I learned to communicate and say like, okay, how do I set a boundary and have them respect my boundary? How do I find comfortability and being who I am and getting away and pushing away from trying to be what I believe they want me to be? And so that was wrapped up in all right, let's take a step back and see what you're comfortable sharing first, and it was the level of communication that opened up the door for people to either and I told people straight you can either accept this or you can move on, but I'm not spending any more energy changing because you want to feel comfortable. And some people accepted it and some people didn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, one of the questions I have in there, though, is that, even though you're, you're at that spot where you're saying I'm going to be who I am, I'm going to say who I am, but you're still probably having to code switch a little bit. Oh yeah, you're in rooms with, you know, people that wouldn't understand who you are, so how, how did that conflict go in your identity process? I am who I am, but I still have to be in order to get through there's.
Speaker 1:There's two things I had to to deal with. One is establishing when I had to do it and realizing I don't have to do it all the time, because then I would be, I wouldn't be authentic. And then, two, how do I build a level of comfort with the way I communicate if I'm not going to code switch? Yeah, yeah, how do I do that? So I learned to do it by asking questions. I'm I'm a reporter at heart. I ask 10 million questions all the time, and so when I was uncomfortable, I had to ask a question.
Speaker 1:All right, john, first to me, why are you uncomfortable? Well, because I didn't like the tone in which they said it. Okay, what do you know about the why behind the tone in which they spoke to you? Well, they seem on edge and they seem aggravated. Okay, maybe we ask them why? Hey, you seem you're talking kind of crazy everything. Okay, that's how it first started. Yeah, exactly, it is now evolved. Because then here's the thing we we code switch based on assumptions. I'm watching someone react to me. All right, maybe I've gone too far, let's pull it back and switch to this. I'm watching a reaction to something I just said.
Speaker 1:All right, let me put my corporate voice back on, because maybe they're not ready or maybe I shouldn't have did that and you're automatically switching. Now I submit myself and get a lot more comfortable now because I say, okay, sounds like you heard something else and they're like well, you sound uncomfortable. You shifted in your seat a bit. You talk to me about why you're uncomfortable, well, and then you get people to unlock the truth. Shifted in your seat a bit, you talk to me about why you're uncomfortable, well, and then you get people to unlock the truth. I have a saying where we grew up Assumptions get you killed.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So any assumption of assuming, when we assume the death is in the action you take based off of assumed information. So now, if you are now assuming an action and you're wrong, dead in the water, so now I remove. I hate assumptions, I don't like assuming at all as I don't like it as much as I don't like emotional decisions. If those two were people we'd have, we, I'd I'd be in jail for taking them out. I don't like that at all. So I get clarifying information because the responsibility is on the individual. If you don't understand, because the lack of understanding is within you. So if you don't ask the question, it's not safe for you to assume, because you really don't have enough information to make a decision. So I remove the assumption by asking the question and getting clarification, because then the onus is on the individual and not so much on you, and now you can actually be free to be who you are because you have clear information.
Speaker 1:Okay, this person didn't like it because of a past experience with somebody that looks like me. This person is not comfortable because the tone in which I said it or the implication of the statement I said has a history with them that I don't even know about? Of course, yeah. So we fill in the gaps with questions which will remove assumptions, which will then allow you to see do I even have to code switch? Because why are we code switching? Because we want the people outside of us to feel comfortable with us. That's the purpose.
Speaker 2:That's the whole purpose.
Speaker 1:So now I want you to be comfortable, but I have to be comfortable with us. That's the purpose, that's the whole purpose. So now I want you to be comfortable, but I have to be comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to too, so it's a two-way street here, exactly.
Speaker 1:So the communication is the thing that unlocks your ability to either choose to code switch or not, because then you do a lot less code switching when you ask a lot more questions, if that makes sense it does.
Speaker 2:It makes 100 sense when I think about and you moved into mental health and one of one of my pillars is health, and you know physical health is one of the. Mental health is a huge one. How are you going about? Oh, how did you help yourself? Because of the different despairs that you were in and just anger and all the different emotions that you were going through. So you had to get yourself to a point. And then how are you helping others identify that there's an issue and then being able to find places in which they can now heal?
Speaker 1:which they can now heal. So, dr B, the first thing I did was I had to have, I had to be realistic with myself. I had to stop covering with myself. I had to stop lying about my insecurities, stop lying to myself about, you know, what I think I'm good at versus what I think I'm not bad at. I had to stop trying to say like, oh, it's not that bad, and start looking at things for what they are, because we established this habit of making excuses for ourselves because of what we've been through and if you continue to do that, you will always be defined by that and you won't grow. So I had to first internally say, okay, what do I have to deal with? What can I deal with? Now? You won't be able to deal with everything, and some things are going to take a lot longer to pull out of the closet. But you pull out what you can and you deal with what you can and over time you start to be able to get comfortable enough to understand yourself a lot better. That was the first thing.
Speaker 1:The second thing is I had to learn a better form of communication, because most of the pain was coming from a lack of communication or a miscommunication.
Speaker 1:And then you make up the scenarios in your head of what you're going to do to protect yourself, and then it's not even real and not even how it turns out to be.
Speaker 1:But you were trained by bad experiences to this is never going to happen again, or they're never going to talk to me like that again, or they're not going to cross me like that again. So when you see similar scenarios, your fear kicks in, your shield goes up and you go into a default preset that you've designed to protect you from and to have you avoid that past issue or that past problem. So I had to learn how to communicate and I had to learn that questions were the key, because if you, if questions are the key to every answer, right, and you have to be okay with asking uncomfortable questions, and those are the ones where you can get really, really deep, and some people are ready and some people aren't, but at least you asked the question and you communicated. And then the third thing is a big resource is I went and started talking with a therapist. I went and had a conversation.
Speaker 2:We don't talk about that. We don't do that. We don't do that. A therapist. I went and had a conversation with a therapist.
Speaker 1:We don't talk about that. We don't do that. We don't do that. Something must be wrong with you if you gotta go talk to a therapist now, but I went when I had nothing wrong with me. I went when things were great.
Speaker 1:Yes, because I look at it this way If you can go to the doctor to check up on your health, to make sure your body is good, why don't you have a conversation with a therapist who's designed to be unbiased and literally pages listen to you, unpack the thoughts in your mind, whether good or bad, because it's through. What does the Bible say Let us come together, let's reason. People often take that scripture and only apply it to conflict resolution, when it's never just said conflict resolution. I said let's reason, let's converse. You were meant to talk to get it out. We were. We release emotions through conversation and sometimes it's having a conversation is just as impactful as doing physical exercise, because we don't understand the implications that holding internal emotions based on thoughts can have to the body.
Speaker 1:You will, literally, when people believe that, oh, because their mom had this and they have this and they have no trace of it because they thought about it and they believe that they do, they start to manifest symptoms. That's how powerful your brain is. It will believe what you feed it. You will become what you're digesting and I had to learn. You know what? If I could check up on my body? I'm going to keep checking up on my mind and I went through therapist after therapist to get it where I needed to get to, and now I'm at a healthy dialogue with myself, better self-talk, talking to myself, better. I am not my failures. I am not my mistakes. My mistakes are there to teach me. I'm not a failure. I learned.
Speaker 2:Wow, and that what I wanted to just bring out in that is the conversation. You talk a lot about having better communication, but the communication we have with ourselves? We act like we don't talk to ourselves.
Speaker 2:We spend most of our day talking to ourselves. We even lie to ourselves, yep, and it acts like it's the truth, right, you know? And so by doing that and having that self-talk and being able to okay, so I'm going to communicate with myself like I'm trying to learn how to communicate with others my life is going to be exponentially better.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:The words that I'm speaking to myself are the ones that are helping me move to a better place, instead of the ones that make me go back. We spend so much time in our stinking past. It's like you meet with your old friends and you can't talk about nothing going on in the future. All you can talk about is the times that you had. Then You're like wait a minute, I'm done with that. I don't live in that life anymore. It's great to reminisce, but let's talk about where we're going. We anymore. And it's great to reminisce, but let's talk about where we're going. Yeah, you know when we do that with ourselves as well.
Speaker 1:So I'm loving this, the whole communication side of it where, hey, yeah, my part of my mental health is learning how to talk to me. Yes, and we, and we and we do, and we make that mistake, dr b, because you know, we're, we're victims to the lessons we don't learn Every single time and we don't even know that it's a lesson. And especially, those are the worst, because you repeat it over and over and some people repeat it for the rest of their lives and they live behind the excuse that, well, that's just how I am, when you have the power, in a split second, to change everything, to change it all, to change it all. I had a friend who, over and over, would say, man, it's so hard for me to lose weight, and I would ask him why.
Speaker 1:He's like man, it's just, it's too much. I said let me ask you Is GERD too much? Is diabetes too much? What about heart attacks? What about pulmonary embolisms? What about all of these things that can happen? What about lack of? Is that too much? He said, yeah, like I said, is cancer too much? He's like, yeah, that's the worst. I mean I don't got that, thank God.
Speaker 1:I said, but if you could change that and if you knew that those were coming and you could avoid that by figuring out your diet and how to move around a bit, and would you do it if you knew they were coming and you had until this point, he was like, oh, yeah, I'd make sure I did it. And I said you see how fast your mind switched because you were in perceivable danger. I said imagine if you channeled that split second decision to change and it was hypothetical. But imagine you took that and you changed your life and believed that that was possible. I said because those things that I mentioned are absolutely possible if you keep believing that it's too hard. I said what was the difference between what you said earlier and the latter half of the conversation where you were like, yeah, I would do it.
Speaker 1:Purpose. It's too hard because there is no purpose behind it and all you're seeing is what you believe you're losing. But nothing is difficult if you believe that you need it. And that's the difference. A lot of us are not tapping into our potential because we believe that, because we don't really necessarily want it, there is no need. I don't need to change. I got a good life, but you want better for yourself, yeah, do you like it, do you?
Speaker 1:oh my gosh so it's that, it's, it's that, that that beautiful positioning in the conversation where I always ask that question and they're always like well, what would you do if this were the circumstance? Oh no, we can't have that, we're gonna do that. I said that right. There is the key, that moment where you said nothing else matters but this and then you go, do it yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I hate that our. You know, I love that we're doing this and our time goes and we get the opportunity and, uh, I hope we get to have more conversations absolutely call me back anytime so good.
Speaker 2:Uh, I I've been selfish, I I've been asking all these questions because I wanted to help me, but I will. But I'm sure there's some things that you want to say out to others and how people, how they people get hold of that kind of stuff. So take the next few minutes, however long it is, and and talk about what you really want to talk about I don't know everything, but I was, I get selfish and then I'm like, oh, I gotta give them a chance to talk.
Speaker 1:So you know dr b, I appreciate that anybody can reach out to me, to coach John McCloud, on TikTok, on Instagram. I had a book that I had put together called A 7-Day Mental Reset. It's on Amazon and I literally build that to have people go through a process, a seven-day process, where they ask themselves a bunch of questions and get to the bottom of what they want in life, how they want to go about it, but shift their mind to do it. And it's designed for you to take action on the things that you really want to do in life. But first it starts with your mentality. Your mind is incredibly powerful and I want to empower every single person to be able to tap into their greatest form of potential by unlocking the secrets that they're holding within. They have incredible ability. I believe that I've seen some incredible human beings. So it's on Amazon right now, and I'm also a coach.
Speaker 1:I love helping people. Um, there's no greater service than being able to support somebody from one section of life to the next, and you did nothing but help them, guide them along and hold them accountable, and you get this great joy I take in just seeing other people succeed. So you could always reach out to me on those and on those social media handles and we can have a conversation. I'm always down to talk, and number one thing I want to say tonight is Dr B, thank you for an incredible conversation. This was phenomenal. Your questions were absolutely top-notch because, look, this whole thing flew by and I didn't even realize time was up. So kudos to you for being an incredible host with awesome questions, and I'm just honored to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, and we are as good as the questions that we ask, not only of each other, but of ourselves and if you can remember that, that the questions that we ask not only of each other but of ourselves, and if you can remember that that your questions that you're asking yourself on a daily, basis. You know my prayer every day is dear Lord, give me the wisdom to do the things you put me on this earth to do in a way that pleases you and serves others.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I don't believe you can be in purpose if you're not serving others, if you're not serving others. And so, john, I just thank you so much for your willingness not only to be vulnerable with your life and the things that you've done, but to be able to share them in a way that people can go wait a minute, if he came from Brooklyn and he grew up like this and he had you know those things and say I can do that too.
Speaker 1:And not only do.
Speaker 2:I think people believe they can do it. You have a resource. You can say, well, if he could do it, I could do it. But I could actually call him and ask him out.
Speaker 2:You know, because we have this thing with media and availability to talk to each other, Because I think that's the only way we're going to continue to grow. That's the only way we're going to be able to move forward is to spend time with each other, learning about each other. So I can't wait to talk to you again. I can't wait for us to be able to chop it up even more. I got so many more questions and every question and everything you said, I'm like I got another one, I got another one, I got another one, but I guess that's the reporter side of me or the journalist side of me, or whatever it is. It's so neat to see you continue to grow and I want to follow your life and see all the things that you get to do and all the things you're going to accomplish.
Speaker 2:So, for those of you who were, this episode resonated with you and you know somebody else, please share with them, Even if you don't. Well, I don't know what they'll like if I'm sharing with them. Hey, the best thing you can do is just offer to them. If they take it, great. If they don't take it, you know there's a whole bunch of other you know episodes on here that I'm sure if you go through and look through you're going to find other ones that you would love to hear and do and subscribe and I just can't wait to have you guys be able to share your stories at some point, and so you are God's greatest gift.
Speaker 2:Don't forget that he loves you and he wants you to be part of his life, and so we'll look forward to talking to each and every single one at the end. John, thank you for being on, and we will talk to you on the next one.