The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Journey to Freedom serves as an exclusive extension of the Living Boldly with Purpose podcast series—a platform that inspires powerful transformation and growth. Journey freedom is a podcast hosted by Brian E. Arnold. The Journey to Freedom is an our best life blueprint exclusively designed for black men where we create a foundational freedom plan. There are five pillars: Identity, Trust, Finances, Health and Faith.
The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Carl Darden: A Life of Quiet Determination
Quiet determination becomes a superpower in Carl Darden's hands. The former Navy helicopter pilot and Johnson & Johnson executive shares his remarkable journey from Naval Academy graduate to devoted family man, revealing how military discipline transformed his approach to every challenge.
Growing up as a military kid under an Air Force veteran father who flew rescue helicopters in Vietnam, Carl learned early that giving up wasn't an option. When a neighbor handed teenage Carl a Naval Academy catalog, it sparked a passion that would define his career trajectory. Despite the rigors of engineering studies and the subtle racial tensions of early 1980s Annapolis, Carl persevered, eventually following in his father's footsteps as a helicopter pilot.
Carl's definition of himself speaks volumes: "I would say somebody who is quietly determined to do whatever it takes to complete a task. But what I pride myself most on is being known as somebody who is 100% reliable." This reliability manifests in heartwarming stories – like staying up late to correct a fifth-grader's math problem and texting the solution to ensure the student wouldn't study incorrect information.
The conversation takes a deeply moving turn when Carl discusses fatherhood. From helping his son overcome basketball setbacks to watching his daughter forge her own educational path, Carl's pride in his children radiates through his stories. His 25-year marriage, which he describes using aviation terminology as having "a good co-pilot," offers wisdom about partnership, adaptation, and mutual support.
Now producing a sports podcast highlighting Naval Academy athletes, particularly athletes of color, Carl continues finding ways to serve while maintaining rigorous physical fitness routines. His reflections on health, family legacy, and finding purpose after traditional career paths end provide invaluable guidance for listeners at any life stage.
If I had to kind of define who I am, I would just say somebody who is quietly determined to do whatever it takes to complete a task. But I think that what I pride myself most on is being known as somebody who is 100% reliable.
Speaker 2:Okay, welcome to the Journey to Freedom podcast. I'm Dr B and I'm your host and just super. I hate to say this every time, but I say it every time because I get so excited about the guests that I get to interview. I tell you guys all the time that I'm the luckiest man on the planet who gets to interview folks that are doing something, that are making a difference.
Speaker 2:Carl, I don't know if you know, but last year I said I had gone to a seminar and came back and just was really excited about doing podcasts.
Speaker 2:And I said I was going to interview 100 and came back and just was really excited about doing podcasts and I said I was going to interview a hundred black men last year, in 2024, I ended up doing 105, which has made it even better that you know and I'm probably at 140 now after this year, as we just continue to grow and continue to understand folks, and so I'm so excited to have you on so we can continue to chop, chop it up on on some wonderful things.
Speaker 2:But I can't excited to have you on, so we continue to chop it up on some wonderful things, but I can't wait to hear your story, you know, as I just think, like yesterday I was able to interview a gentleman that had a really good attitude. He was like I forgive everybody, I'm OK. You know, he came out of Chicago, was arrested and convicted for a double homicide and when that double homicide happened he happened to be in jail and he still spent 19 years before they figured out that there's no way he could have been there because he was locked up. And so then you think of our systems and the things that you know that folks argue. And then they did a civil trial and realized he couldn't have done the things because he was not in a position to do it.
Speaker 2:But he had a good attitude, right, he was still happy, he was still excited, he was still, you know, he's been out now for about 11 years, but at the same time he's in his 50s. He went in at 22 or 20 years old and spent, you know, 20 from 20 to 40, which are some of our most formative years uh, where he was and knowing that he didn't commit the crime. You know that was impossible to do it and nobody would listen it's not a good attitude.
Speaker 2:So, uh, that's why I just I so enjoyed, you know, the opportunity that I get to have. You know, folks like yourself that are on. I've asked Carl to tell the story because I can't wait to hear all the wonderful things that he's done and he's going to continue to do, and then we're going to talk about our pillars and just have some fun together today. So, carl, thank you for being on, thank you for spending your time with me during this hour, and we will talk. Just go ahead and tell your story, we'll go from there.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks, brian. I appreciate it and first of all, I really appreciate that invitation Came as a little bit of a surprise, but I hope that what I have to say will bring some value to your listeners. So essentially, and again just by way of introduction, my name is Carl Darden and I am a former Navy veteran. I've spent 20 years on active duty, both active duty and in the reserves, and I actually come from a military background. My father was an Air Force veteran and he served for 20 years, from the mid-50s to the mid-70s, and that included a tour in Vietnam and he flew helicopters. He's a search and rescue helicopter pilot and just saved countless lives while he was in service. And it was probably that military background that kind of formed a foundation for who I ended up becoming, because my dad, he had a particular I guess for lack of a better phrase code that he lived by and it was basically, you know, putting the family first, doing everything he could to make sure that they, you know, got every opportunity to make themselves better. But the other side of it was also just making sure that he understood that we understood that we had to meet a certain standard in his mind, and that part of that meant never giving up on anything, Always, you know, showing proper respect to everybody and just never setting a goal and just basically going after it.
Speaker 1:Essentially, and and that's kind of where, that's kind of how I grew up we spent time moving all over the place. I mean, I was born in Las Vegas, moved to Italy, actually learned to speak Italian before I spoke English, came back to the States when my dad was in Vietnam, forgot how to speak Italian because everybody met, everybody made fun of us and then when he came back from Vietnam, we went from Maine to Florida, to South Carolina and then out to Denver when he retired. So we were all over the place and the things that got me through were just a love of sports. I mean, I did pretty well in school, but it was like sports, like baseball and basketball, that really kind of kept me going. And I think that I would say that my first time when I really felt like I was, I felt like I could do something in baseball, actually when I was like nine years old, because I couldn't really hit a baseball for two years it was just like close your eyes and swing, but my dad constantly worked with me and he wasn't even really a big sports guy, to tell you the truth, but the fact is he knew that it mattered to me. So we went out there and we had a little plastic wiffle ball and I had the bat and he just threw me ball after ball after ball and then that, in conjunction with getting on a good team with a coach that could really teach hitting, made all the difference in the world. So that was kind of my first exposure into not giving up because I was really this close to just saying, you know, forget it, I don't want to do this anymore. So you know, that was part of it.
Speaker 1:And then kind of fast forwarding, you know, getting to high school again, I didn't really have a lot of issues academically, I mean, I felt like things kind of came to me all right, but I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do beyond high school. And it was, I think, between my freshman and sophomore year that a neighbor of ours came up to me and I was walking my dog. I'll never forget this. I tell this story a lot. When people ask me how I got interested in the Naval Academy, he hands me this catalog on the US Naval Academy and I'd heard of it because I watched Army-Navy games in the past. And he said hey, carl, take a look at this, I think you might be interested in what it has to say. So I said, okay, thanks, mr Williams, I appreciate it. So I went home and again, this was a catalog. You don't typically read catalogs cover to cover right, you just kind of flip through them and focus on different areas.
Speaker 1:But that one I did you know from the very start all the way through and I read it in like less than a couple of days, right on through to what the requirements were for the different majors and so forth. I mean just the whole nine yards. And that was when and I remember, like I said, this was in the summer of 77. And I told my parents I said that's where I want to go to school of 77. And I told my parents I said that's where I want to go to school. And from that point on, nothing got in my way in terms of making sure that I was going to put myself in the position to be the most competitive, and that meant taking all the right classes, you know, putting everything else aside, including, you know, somewhat of a social life or whatever. But at the end of the day, my thing was I want to get accepted to the academy because I thought it just provided all kinds of great opportunities. And, fortunately for me, the hard work paid off. I got admitted with the class of 1984 and showed up in Annapolis in July of 1980. And I'm not going to lie to you, it was a rough four years. I majored in engineering and I did it. Not engineering and I did it, I did it not necessarily because I loved engineering. I did it because I read this stat that said four out of five graduates from the Native Academy have engineering degrees and I just said, ok, that's me, then I'm going to be an engineer. And that's not to say that, had I majored in history or whatever I'm not saying like history was like an easier major or anything like that because you still had to take professional courses, engineering courses. If you were a major, like in humanities, all English majors, all history majors, had to take some level of thermodynamics, electrical engineering, things like that. But the history definitely did come easier to me and I think I probably would have done a little bit better academically had I gone that route. But I'm not sorry that I went the engineering route because it kind of gave me the foundation of how I think and process information today and, anyway, finished up at the academy, ended up getting a slot to go to flight school and I ended up flying helicopters, just like my dad.
Speaker 1:Spent nine years on active duty, transitioned into the reserves, spent 11 years in the reserves and then during that time I also went to work in the corporate world for Johnson Johnson, where I was there, for I think I was with them for 19 years doing everything from sales, sales training, sales management, all that kind of stuff, and finished up with Johnson Johnson in 2016. Ended up working on my own as an energy management consultant for a few years and was building up a little bit of a book of business, and then COVID hit and basically just wrecked that opportunity altogether. And then I started thinking to myself you know, if I can just find something to kind of keep paying the bills for a couple more years, then my neighbor retirement pay kicks in. I was already getting my J&J pension and then if I could do that, then I could kind of relax and then just start doing stuff for me, right? So I ended up calling up my kids' local junior well, where they went to junior high, and I just asked them hey, how are you guys fixed for math teachers, substitute math teachers and stuff like that, because I can teach anything all the way up through trigonometry. And they said, hey, by all means, we have a shortage and of course, with COVID they just definitely needed the help.
Speaker 1:So I did that for a few years Not that often, I would probably pick up about maybe 10 days a month or something like that. And then just recently I just kind of stepped away from that and I'm just doing straight up one-on-one tutoring with kids, and I do have four or five students right now One Hispanic, one Hispanic, one young African-American high school freshman girl that she's doing a lot better now, and then a couple other kids as well. So that kind of keeps me busy. I feel like I'm kind of giving something back and so, yeah, that's basically my story. I think you're on mute, brian. I can't hear you.
Speaker 2:Well, how?
Speaker 1:did I do that. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:What a world we live in. Thank you for letting me know, thank you for working with the kids, I mean. Sometimes we believe that success means that you change the world right, like millions of people at a time.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Just the one or two people that you make a difference in, and then they're going to make a difference, and then that just springboards and move on. I kind of feel like it's helicopter month and the reason I say that is like last week I interviewed. Her name was Marcy Ng Martel Ng and she was the first black female helicopter pilot in the Army.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, kidding yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and Hal, you just told your story right. So I say I tell them. I'm like, yes, right, go ahead and tell your story. Well, marcy went for about an hour and 15 minutes when she started telling me all the things that she had to go through, you know, to be this pilot in the Army and the things that you know, the hurdles she had to go through. Oh yeah, what an amazing, amazing story that she told. And now I get to hear about your dad and then I get to hear about you know who sounds like he was an amazing man. And you know, I know you just lost him recently and sorry for your loss there, but it just sounds like he gave you like an identity and you know, kind of shaped who you were.
Speaker 2:What I found out, you know when we were talking before that Carl and I were. We grew up in the same town, probably within four or five miles of each other.
Speaker 1:No doubt.
Speaker 2:Arapahoe Road 925 is where my dad. My dad was part of an affirmative action program with the telephone company and he was in the reserves and so I spent my and this. I don't think you can do this now, but he had his weekends where I would go spend my, my, you know, my, his weekend, whatever it was that month, crawling on helicopters and getting into cockpits, right right. I don't think you can even come close to doing that. He was a photographer so he had access to the whole base.
Speaker 2:Right, right he would allow me to bring a friend his weekend every month. I just got to play on a whole bunch of stuff. I'm sure it's not like that anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably a few changes since then, but I think that you try to designate at least one day a year or something where you can, you know, have like a career day, like that.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, but I do want to know. I want to hear about your identity, but maybe before we get your identity and how that was shaped.
Speaker 2:I also want to hear you went to Annapolis you know, and in the early, like the early eighties, which wasn't probably like the early seventies, but there still had to be some some tension there, or was it just we accept everybody, everybody gets to go for it as a smooth selling. And then you're doing something. Academically, that you know how many I don't know. Academically, that you know, I don't know how many folks of color were graduating with engineering degrees in the early 80s.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so maybe kind of tell me a little bit about you know, as it shaped your identity and who you were.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you have to do more? I guess is what I'm asking and who you were Did you have to do more.
Speaker 1:I guess is what.
Speaker 2:I'm asking.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that to your point. Yeah, it was the early 80s and it wasn't nearly as tough as when, obviously, wesley Brown graduated in 1947. He was the first black graduate from the Naval Academy. But you could tell there's just depending on it was more subtle. I guess you know what I mean. Yeah, and let's just I just want to be completely up front here my experience at the naval academy was largely very positive.
Speaker 1:There was just a couple of little things that you know, you just kind of it basically hit you between the eyes and you said, okay, okay, that that's how it is. I just got to be more aware, right, and to be honest with you, you know I had to deal with things from time to time, but the women at the academy, I think, had it as tough, or maybe even tougher than I did, in particular, because I mean the class that, the class that I graduated with 1984, that was the fifth class with women in it. It was still a very, very new concept and I saw just brazen examples of just mistreatment and just disrespect on a pretty large level, and I experienced it a little bit myself, but nowhere near on this scale. And I was at Annapolis just recently for my 40-year reunion and I happened to be just kind of observing the campus and and now it's just completely different. I mean, it's just like everybody's all integrated and it's just like it's been like that for forever, you know, and which is great to see, because before you know, you just didn't see that and that was unfortunate.
Speaker 1:But overall, I would say that the only time I really experienced any challenges is when, to be quite honest with you, when people got a little bit out of control. I mean, the drinking age was 18 back then they bumped it to 21, but we were all grandfathered in and certain times you would see people's true colors come through after they've had a couple of drinks. And that's when you just say, okay, that's who you are Good to know. You just move on from there and just make a note and and, and and press on, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God, it's so cool. I can remember, like when I went to a rival high school. That was probably 10 miles, maybe not even 10 miles from the high school that you went to and I can just remember in Cherokee there was 3,500 students, I guess we're way less than that. You're probably half of that, and then we had 35 people of color that went to Cherry Creek High School. It was like that.
Speaker 1:That's like 0.1% and I happened to be a pretty good athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I happened to be a pretty good athlete, so they loved me. I mean, I was the important kid, right. Right right, you're going to help us do football and track and that kind of stuff. But I can just remember like how many of us were in special eds? How many of us were?
Speaker 2:you know that, like when I went to Walnut Hill Elementary School, I was in charity school for all 12 years and I can remember just me and Ernie Pitts in the in the elementary school that I was at and that's when I finally found that, realized that I was black when they were saying names and all that kind of stuff. But overall it was. You know it was a good experience. You know I I was mad at my dad for moving out of you know like Park Hill and that kind of stuff. You know around people who look like me and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, you know, he was pursuing a better education for me. He was pursuing it you know, in his mind it was important to to integrate, because he wasn't able to do that in Kansas City. Right, you know, you know, he tells me stories of what it was like in Missouri. He was growing up in the 30s and 40s.
Speaker 2:You know like, oh my gosh, it was, it was a mess. When we think about identity and becoming the man that you are today, what do you think? Were there different people or just experiences? Did you and I don't know if you served in any of the wars flying helicopters, but what became who you were to believe you could do anything? You know, I don't know how many pilots and stuff that there were, how intensive it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think that in terms of my identity I kind of alluded to it before that that was largely shaped by my dad, just in terms of the example he set, and I know that when I started going down that path to become a helicopter pilot, it almost kind of happened. It wasn't one of these things where I wanted to fly from the time I was six years old. It just kind of evolved over time and I realized that when I got experience to all the areas of the Navy those being the ships, the submarines, the Marine Corps and also aviation, the helicopter well, aviation, and then the helicopter community in particular, seemed to fit my personality the best. You know I, I there's. I mean, on some level I'm a somewhat intense person, but I try to just kind of stay as relaxed as I can and I think, by and large, a lot of helicopter pilots tend to be like that. They're kind of laid back. You know they very professional, you know they get the job done and they know what they're doing, but there's not that same level of intensity as you might have with a jet pilot, which they need to have because they're trying to plant a speeding jet on an aircraft carrier that's moving at night, you know. So you know more power to them. But anyway, yeah, I mean I think my dad kind of shaped that a lot and if I had to kind of define who I am, I would just say somebody who is just, you know, quietly determined to do whatever it takes to complete a task. But I think that what I pride myself most on is I just in terms of my reputation is being known as somebody who is 100% reliable, and you know meaning that. Hey, you need somebody to count on just for anything. Just go to Carl, he'll figure out a way to get it done. Because, for whatever reason, that makes me feel really, really good. And I'll give you, I'll give you a quick example of that. And it's just, it's really minor.
Speaker 1:But I was working through a problem with a young student he's a fifth grader, I guess the other day, and I was surprised that they were getting problems this challenging in the fifth grade. I mean, I've seen them in the, you know, seen them getting in the seventh grade, like that, but not in the fifth grade. And I was working through the problem and we came up with an answer and I said, okay, well, this is so, this is basically how you work through it. But as we moved on to another problem, there's something that was kind of sticking in my head about the answer that we got and I said, man, something is off there. I think I made a mistake and I can't remember what it. You know I got to take some more time to look through it, you know. So I kind of put that problem aside. We worked through the rest of it, the rest of the lesson, Okay. And then I came back home and, sure enough, there was a small mistake that I made that threw off the answer. It was the incorrect answer. So I went back and I worked through the problem. In fact I have it sitting right here on my desk.
Speaker 1:I worked through the problem step by step by step, because I wasn't going to see the kid for another week and I wasn't sure if he's going to have a test or a quiz or something coming up. So I wrote it step by step by step, as neat as I could. I took a picture of it and I texted it to his dad. I said, hey, benji and I were working through a problem. Something kind of went sideways and I didn't catch it until I got back home. Here's the corrected answer Tell him to call me if he's got any questions.
Speaker 1:And he gave me a thumbs up and we went on. But if I would have just let that go and I'd say you know, whatever, I'll just see the kid next week and correct it? No, that's not me. I got to fix it right then and there for me to be able to sleep at night. So that's the way it is, and so you can imagine that was my reaction dealing with a fifth grade math student. So if I'm dealing with adults on adult type issues or situations and stuff like that, you can bet that I'm going to do whatever it takes to get the job done, question, solve their problem, whatever.
Speaker 2:And that's so cool. Now I'm thinking of solving that problem with my kids. Me, the last math class I had was 10th grade, I think, and in college I got to take astronomy account as a math class, and so I got to know the sum results. I love the fact that you work through that like an engineer would or should, where I would look at it and go I ain't got nothing, son, it's good to be. Oh my gosh, that is so cool. Oh, but, but. But you were able to, which is really cool. What so? You, you, you retire from the, the uh navy after 20. Now did you fly all 20 years? Were you an aviation and helicopter pilot for?
Speaker 1:all 20 years.
Speaker 2:Or did you move into something like engineering or something yeah?
Speaker 1:So I was a helicopter pilot the whole time I was on active duty and then when I went into the reserves for those 11 years I didn't fly because I didn't live. I did my reserve duty in Norfolk, virginia, and but I did not live there. I lived in either Raleigh, north Carolina, and for a while there I was in Baltimore. So I was having to drive to Norfolk for my reserve duty and if you're going to be a pilot in the reserves you almost have to kind of live in the city where you're doing your reserve duty, because there are certain minimums that you got to maintain monthly and annually and stuff like that and it's just going to be too hard.
Speaker 1:But I did get assigned to a unit that worked with air traffic controllers. So it was aviation related and we essentially went out on other amphib ships and we were part of the component that handled bringing the aircraft on board and maybe they're going into like a hot zone or something like that and you'd be communicating with the forward air controllers on making sure they got in and out of there safely. You know that sort of thing. And to answer your question, or to answer what you wondered about earlier, I did not, I was basically just getting ready to transition to an instructor squadron when Desert Storm jumped off in the early 90s and they did put my orders on freeze until they kind of determined their manpower requirements and it turns out that I didn't have to go.
Speaker 1:I actually served with a lot of guys who came back from there and, to be honest with you, my job as a combat support pilot, as a Navy combat support pilot, would not have been one that involved flying into hot zones or anything like that. There would have been a lot of resupply and stuff like that. But for me, the most challenging thing because I was single at the time, I wasn't married, so my biggest challenge would have just been shutting down my apartment and going over there, because the actual job that I would have had would have been probably, you know, unremarkable by most people's standards and and uh. But you just took satisfaction in knowing that what you were doing was helping somebody else.
Speaker 1:So you know, you have kids, right yes, I have a daughter who's finishing up at the university of ari and my son is going to a local junior college before he transfers to Arizona State.
Speaker 2:Nice. And the reason I ask that because one of the themes that has come from doing all these podcasts one was, I guess the first thing was we say that we need to find people that look like us to know that we could do some of the things that are out there. As I graduate, I don't need to see people look like me. I can do anything, I can be anything. My dad instilled all that in me and then I went to my journey to Freedom Starters, because I went to a seminar that had 400 or 500 people in in it and I find myself counting how many people color in the room, like right
Speaker 2:so I think it wasn't important, but it's important enough for me to count every time I go to a room, right, so so it does count, you know, to me. But then the second thing that has come up is what does it mean to be a dad and the responsibility of a dad? Because sometimes we get such a well, and probably rightly so, in some circles where, you know, we hear all these like deadbeat dads. We hear all these, you know, dads who don't take responsibility, and I think we all believe I haven't met anybody yet that doesn't believe that every child should have a dad growing up and have what you and.
Speaker 2:I had where we had our dads the whole time. You know we neither one of us had you were from single, single pair of families, uh. But so I know a lot of people I interview who who have, and one of the things is you know, yes, our kids need a dad, but the what it means to be a dad and how it changes how we interact in life when we have that responsibility of protection and provision, and you know, I think some of the decisions that I, in fact, I know a lot of the decisions that I made as a dad when my kids were younger were probably different than I would have made had I not been a dad. Yeah, if you talk about what it means to be a dad, yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:And I remember talking with a friend of mine from Johnson Johnson years ago because she was having kind of a rough time with her marriage and she had just had a kid, and she said that she asked me she goes well, you know what was it like when your daughter was born. Lena was born in 2002 and then Ethan was right behind her about a year and a half later and I said, you know, I said that's a good question because I remember being in the delivery room with my wife, winnie, and I just remember when Lena was delivered and I saw her for the first time, it was almost like this switch was flipped in my head. That basically said that is my number one priority now. Period. End of sentence. And of course it was reinforced when my son, ethan, was born. So basically, to me, being a dad meant probably somewhat similar to what it meant for my dad to have two sons and a daughter as well, and that was to do whatever you could to give them every opportunity to succeed and the pride I get is seeing them. You know, hit that mark. You know, for my daughter it was just all kinds of little milestones.
Speaker 1:When she was in high school. She wanted to go to a high school. That was kind of tough to. I mean, it was kind of like an admission sort of thing, and she battled pretty hard in junior high but she insisted that she wanted to go there and you know, she got, she got accepted and it was just, it was a charter school, it wasn't a public school, anything like that. Um, out here in Arizona there's more charter schools than public schools and you know the public schools, some of them are okay, most of them aren't. But that's not to say that all the charter schools are all that great either. It just kind of depends on who the teachers are. But anyway, this one happened to be pretty good and it had like an agricultural and agri-science type of angle which she really liked because she liked animals and stuff like that. And then she decided she wanted to go to University of Arizona because they had a really great program and I didn't have to lift a finger in terms of, just, you know, the applications process and everything. She did everything and she just said, dad, you got to sign here, you got to do this, you got to do that. Next thing, you know, boom, you know she gets accepted and then she's, she's on her way and then you know so that that was one of my proudest moments when she got accepted there and of course that is going to be, that's going to be eclipsed when she graduates in the spring here.
Speaker 1:And then for my son, ethan, you know his personality is a little bit different, he's not nearly as intense as my daughter is but he's, you know, pretty bright kid and I just remember with him it was just watching him stay, determined to do something, just kind of like how I was All right. I'll give an example. He was born in December and we started him in school early, so he was a very young ninth grader. When he went into high school he was still 13 years old. He didn't turn 14 until December of that year and consequently, when he was playing basketball he was tracking physically a little bit behind everybody else because they were all a year to year and a half older. But he made the freshman team and although he didn't start, he got some good playing time and you know he's a good contributor. And then what happened was in the next year they didn't have a sophomore team, it just went from freshman to JV to varsity, right. So you know you had to skip. You know you're skipping basically a year there, but really for him physically it was two years, because now he's just turned 15. Everybody else is probably 15, going on 16, especially if they started late anyway, because you know how it is with the kids these days Sometimes they hold them back a year early so they can get that physical advancement. And his growth spurt hadn't started yet. Well, he didn't make the JB team as a sophomore. He got cut.
Speaker 1:And I remember the day that I picked him up and I said so how did it go? He goes, I didn't make the team. And I said, oh man, I'm really sorry to hear that. And then there was just like a little bit of. I didn't say anything, I just wanted to see how he was going to react. And he says you know, I'm going to go out again next year. And that was the best thing that he could have ever said to me. Those are the words I was hoping would come out of his mouth. And I said, okay, well, cool, we'll make a plan and then we'll start going.
Speaker 1:So we just went and we went to Luke Air Force Base or the YMCA, wherever, to shoot baskets. We looked up stuff online that would help him develop his skills even more as a point guard and as a shooting guard. And long story short, not only did he make the team as a junior, but then as a senior, he ended up being the captain and the most valuable player. So that was all, because he just didn't give up. And so when he was named the MVP, that was a pretty proud moment for me because I knew what it took for him to get there. You know what I mean. So as far as dad moments go, those were the two biggest ones to date for me, and I'm sure they're going to be more to come in the future. But I just take a lot of satisfaction in knowing that, hey, they actually did listen to at least something that I told him at some point along the way, you know and they surprise you so much.
Speaker 2:And you know, I similar to like when your dad you you said your dad went out and did the baseball thing for you and helped you swing baseballs and you went out and helped your son be better at basketball so I was a track guy. So I was, you know, able to to really understand and be coaching track for 38 years and I can remember when my son decided like I think it was seventh grade or eighth grade, he decided he was going to play baseball.
Speaker 2:Well, he had missed all those years. When you're five, six, seven, eight, I, you know, played baseball with all the kids who knew and I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know baseball, I'm a PE teacher. You know.
Speaker 2:So I obviously know the sport, but I'm not an enthusiast of baseball. They're doing stuff and he goes and plays and they put him out in left field. They don't let him back. The coach actually gets suspended for three games for not playing and letting him go on the bat.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I still make him go through all these games, and you know, but I'm like the champion that you are, I'm not helping him learn baseball, I'm not practicing with him. I'm like yeah we're done with baseball and the coach's son in their family was so mad at me and so mad at my son because their dad got you know, he's the manager, he's the coach, and now he can't even show up to the games because of my son who's being so bad, and then I finally get my son to go do track right, and so that I know that I can spend time that I can help him with.
Speaker 2:He ends up being second in the state of California high jump and you know he gets a scholarship and all that kind of stuff and the coach's son is, you know, the coach's son doesn't get to do anything, he's not very good. I don't know if he made you know the baseball team his senior year and I see him and this is a proud moment of me as a dad, but probably my best moment, as you know, interacting with dad cucks. It was like my son has got this. You know, you just think of those things because I was so, like you were saying, so proud to be a dad and I think my self-worth, because I was able to be a dad, increased tenfold because I thought I was doing the things.
Speaker 2:Now, obviously I don't think I was the best parent that was alive and you know super dad and being able to do everything, but it was so important to say, hey, I am a dad, I'm taking care of my responsibility as a dad and these little humans, I have a responsibility of how their life shows the older they get.
Speaker 2:And, yes, my oldest is 36 now and he works for Pixar, and so I'm the proudest dad that I got the son that works for, you know, disney or whatever right right you know, and we just happen to have eight children, and so all of them I can go and brag on, but it's like you know there's, there's not one that I wouldn't say is the greatest kid on the planet, is doing phenomenal things, but they just keep surprising me yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:okay, so well, I just I kind of look at that as my self-worth. Now, the next part of that is your relationship with your wife, and what does it mean to be this amazing husband that is able to do this in conjunction and take care of these kids? What are some of the things that compels you to love your wife the way that you did, or do?
Speaker 1:She's still around.
Speaker 2:You know that made a difference in that also, you know, ignited your self-worth in who you are.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, so my wife and I met in 1998. So I was already in my mid-30s then and I'd not been married before or anything like that. And she's originally from Chicago and in fact that's where she is right now. But she's a flight attendant, so she spends a lot of time going to and from and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:And early on, when we met, I got a really good sense for who she was, because she was always and I kind of think a thing in terms of just being a helicopter pilot. You always like to have a good crew and that starts with having a good co-pilot. Helicopter pilot, you, you always like to have a good crew, you know, and that starts with having a good co-pilot. And she was always that, if I can draw the analogy, I mean, whenever I needed to do, whenever I needed something to be done while I was at work or whatever, she was able to kind of cover off on that for me. And you know, when we get together it was almost like she was. We joke around a lot. I said, you know, sometimes I think I just married you for the entertainment value, because she is really, really funny and she's just always cracking me up. I mean there can be times where I can be in just in a really, you know, not the most terrific of moods, and then she'll walk in and she'll say something or do something. It'll just have me cracking up, you know. So I think that that was the thing that really first attracted me to her. And then, as our marriage has evolved I mean we'll be married, you know, 25 years come April the 8th, and we've assumed different roles, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, when I was working for Johnson and Johnson, I did a fair amount of traveling not crazy traveling, but enough to the point where at some point I had to kind of put a stop to it and just make sure I was at home more. But, and during that time, you know, she spent most of the time working around my schedule. All right, she'd only work on the weekends, maybe she'd only do two trips a month. She's a flight attendant for United Airlines. She'd only do like two trips a month.
Speaker 1:And then, when I kind of started going through this transition with Johnson Johnson, we had a conversation and I said, hey, look, I'm probably gonna be stepping away from J&J, I'm gonna try and do my own thing. We're set up, okay, to do this right now, and I certainly wouldn't put the family at risk to do this. But you're gonna need to start working a little bit more and then, of course, our roles will basically shift in the household. I'll take over more of the stuff that's done around here and then, until the business gets up and running, then she's going to be gone a little bit more often and stuff like that. And she says, okay, no problem, can do.
Speaker 1:In fact, I think she actually wanted to do that for even a longer period of time because, for whatever reason and I could never talk her out of this she always felt like she wasn't holding up her end of the bargain in the marriage in terms of just what she was bringing to the table. I said don't you understand? I said, what you're doing, you can't really put a price on right, I mean in terms of just making sure that Lena and Ethan don't wind up on drugs or that sort of thing. I mean, I was doing my part when I was there, but I mean, if I'm gone at a national meeting for four days at a time or five days at a time, she's the one looking after them, you know?
Speaker 1:And, conversely, when I was trying to get my business up and running, and then she was working more often. You know, the kids were still in high school, which is obviously a very formative time, so it was my job to make sure that they stayed out of trouble. And you know we're doing the right thing. So it all kind of balances out and I think that that's one reason why, you know, after 25 years we're still going, still going pretty strong. I mean, we we've had our little bumps in the road here and there, but it all comes back to okay, she's a great co-pilot. She's probably the only woman on the planet who can put up with me, so she's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:And understanding that there's sacrifices. One of the things that I'm doing now is I'm doing a podcast on Sunday nights. It's called why Love Waits, and we have five men and five women that were talking about the family unit and how whether it was systematically dismantled or just you know over time when I look at the black family, like during segregation it was super strong.
Speaker 2:It was. You know, the education system was amazing. Our black kids were learning so much more. Then we do this, you know, we abolish segregation and we do integration and we start busting kids.
Speaker 2:And you know, and we're sending our kids to schools that they are not, they're not wanted at you know they get stuck in back of classrooms, and then we have war on drugs classrooms, and then we have war on drugs, all the things that have kind of dispelled family, and the statistic now is 50 percent of black women over the age of 40 have never been married and of that 50 percent, um 75 of them have children oh yeah, and there's this belief now that for black women as I'm doing this at their mom's bottom don't, don't trust men.
Speaker 2:Make sure you have a separate bank account, make sure that you have it out. And for the men, they're like well, I don't know if I ever want to get married because I don't have to give her half. And you're like, well, you're planning on it falling apart in a year. Get there, and there's just this conflict, and I love to highlight relationships that work.
Speaker 2:Because, that's another clue that I'm finding in most of these, you know, conversations. Where I'm having with successful black men is the family unit and the ones that have worked like crazy to be with their kids and do everything and they're treating their queens like these amazing men can. The black family seems to just do so much better. And you know how do we? You know how do we? You know I'll fix it or just share the values that you guys must have had. You know, because nobody said it's been easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just, you know fairytale land you know, but it's been work and the sacrifice has been well worth it. I believe God put us into, you know, but it's been work and the sacrifice has been well worth it. I believe God put us into you know, and just said hey, we were meant for each other.
Speaker 2:We weren't supposed to be alone for our whole lives, and so, yeah, I just appreciate the fact that, hey, you've worked at it. You know the way that you talk about your wife, the way that you, you know, just I can tell that the love is there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're doing those things.
Speaker 1:Well, I first of all. That was a pretty staggering staff that just laid on me there. I did not know that, and I tell you that I think I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, the people not getting together or whatever. I think it all has to do with putting in the work, right. I mean, you know nothing. I don't think it's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, but I tell you the level of satisfaction that I get and the level of gratitude that I feel when my wife and I hit certain milestones, whether it has to do with the raising of our kids or just doing things together.
Speaker 1:I mean, one of the things we do not every single year, but most times is that every spring, in March, we live about five hours well, not five about three and a half hours from Palm Desert, california, and every year they have one of the major tennis tournaments on the WTA and the ATP tour there at Indian Wells, and we've gone there probably about five times since like 2016. And then we'll make the trip back again this spring and that's just a really fun thing for us. It's about a month before our anniversary and we both love tennis. I mean probably she's probably a little bit more addicted to it than I am, although I started playing before she did. But when I come home, usually the tennis channel is on Right and and.
Speaker 1:But when we go, I mean we get our money's worth. We show up as soon as it opens and we're usually there for like two days. We pick usually two days early on in, but we get there right as soon as it opens and we don't leave until the last match is done. So the hotel, we're just there to sleep. So for two days we're doing that and it is just so much, it's so worthwhile, it's so much fun to enjoy that time together when a sport that we both really enjoy playing. So, yeah, I mean those are the, those are the really good times and stuff like that. And so, yeah, I mean those are the really good times and stuff like that. And I just think that these days there's not the same level of my old geometry teacher used to say stick-to-itiveness when it comes to doing things, and I think that, unfortunately, some people they could be on the verge of having a really good relationship, but something happens to derail it and they just don't put in the work to get it back on track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh. So I have to ask you, since you guys are such enthusiasts of tennis, what do you feel about pickleball?
Speaker 1:Oh, I hate it. My wife is a little bit more tolerant, okay, I mean she's actually played it before when she said that she's going to play with a friend of hers back in Chicago.
Speaker 2:I looked at her and I said you are dead to me. I knew that was coming. Part of it is like my generation's fault, because when I started teaching PE and bringing my eyes upon 1890, that was the unit that was. My favorite unit was the pickleball unit. We started thinking this generation is playing it now pickleball. And here's the reason, because when I would do my tennis unit I was chasing balls the whole time.
Speaker 2:When I did my pickleball unit, I could put those little wiffle balls that we do in the gym. It could be cold, and so I just liked doing pickleball, because I didn't want to chase the balls all the time, not to tell you that. But it was so much easier to teach a kid who wants nothing to do with pe that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, here's, here's my philosophy on pickleball. Okay, if you are a, if you are an avid tennis player and you've you've played tennis for years and years, and years and you've gotten to the point where you know what the joints just can't take it anymore. I'm going to go ahead and transition to pickleball. You get cut a lot of slack by me. Okay, I have no issues with you whatsoever. The people I have an issue with is the people who never even tried tennis and just picked it up and started, because what that is saying to me is, you know what? I refuse to put any effort at all into learning this sport. You know that that, basically, pickleball is halfway based on. You know what I mean. And I just said, I just, and I just told her, I said I won't play, you don't ask me to be a partner, because I just won't do it.
Speaker 2:I have. I have a cousin who's several years older than me and when I was teaching pickleball, I tried to go back to the nineties. Oh no, I gotta play. You know, I gotta do all these. I'm a baller, I'm all this right, and now he's like the pickleball club guy. He's like Facebook, is you know? As if he just learned this whole new sport that didn't exist. But I'm like we, we're just trying to get you to play and you thought it was good. You even put together like a pickleball cruise or something like that. You're the only people that are going to our cruise so they can play pickleball.
Speaker 1:Oh man, yeah that's funny, I'm just so surprised it's on tv now and oh yeah, they got an old channel now yeah, it's like it is so amazing.
Speaker 2:My favorite restaurant is in palm desert at the uh, the jw marriott, which is the mikado where you go into the. You know you go into the lobby there, you take the boat out to the, the restaurant. I haven't been there so long.
Speaker 2:So wow, yeah, get out there and do this stuff before, is there? Um, I want to kind of talk about health a little bit. What? What are you doing to make sure, not just physically, but mental health as well? Um, you know, I I know as being a military person, you, you and you weren't, you weren't in combat, but you still probably interacted with a whole lot of people that were. Are there things that you do to just make sure your mental health is maintained or your physical health is maintained? Uh, because we want to live like black men are supposed to die like when we're 72.
Speaker 1:That's like the average age.
Speaker 2:My dad's 86 now and he's still running track meets, so I won't live to 100. What are you doing to maintain your health?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you bring up a good point when you put in the mental health as well, and that's one thing that I can probably start focusing on a little bit more. I've never really felt like that was a huge issue for me in terms of just getting down on things and stuff, but you know, my dad passing a month and a half ago impacted me pretty hard and I think that it's important to kind of recognize that and just deal with it. And the way I've been dealing with it is you know, my mom, they would normally come down here to Arizona from Denver for five months out of the year. They'd come in right around Christmas time and they'd leave to go back to Denver in May. And they came down this time and unfortunately it was when my dad passed away, when he got down here within like two weeks. Unfortunately, it was when my dad passed away, when he got down here within like two weeks, and so my mom is still here and I make it a point to go visit with her every day. My dad, he died just shy of his 90th birthday and my mom is 86. And so I spend at least two hours a day over there with her. My brother is visiting from California and he's been there with her for the last three weeks. He's heading back home on the 20th, but then my sister is coming out from Alexandria on Sunday. I'm picking her up at the airport. She's going to stay for a week and then the plan there is just for them to or at least my sister anyway come out once one week a month for at least the next four or five months and my brother will come out, you know, whenever he can, and of course you know I'll be here basically the whole time while she's here in May, so with me. That's how I've been kind of dealing with. The loss is just, you know, keeping my dad alive in our conversations and stuff like that and just remembering different stories that really told you what he was all about. You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Physically, I've always been, you know, a big physical fitness guy. You know, whether it's uh, weightlifting or different sports or uh, running. I, I did recreational running for a long time. I finally stopped doing that about, um, we'll call it four months ago, I think I ran my last four miles or whatever, and now I, I, my aerobic activity is being accomplished by doing using my rowing machine. So a general week for me in terms of physical fitness looks like, okay, jump on the rowing rowing machine two or three times a week for about 30 to 45 minutes, and then two days a week of resistance training to include things like not the exercises that athletes would typically do yeah, there's some of that but more or less the ones that are going to allow us to maintain a good productive life as we get into our later years. So that means things that focus on stability and balance and certainly strength, because you want to keep your bone density up as much as you can.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, with my dad. You know he had a history of heart disease and so forth. So my cardiac health is extremely important to me, just making sure I do things to maintain that. What's so frustrating sometimes is that medicine can be so contradictory sometimes. Right, I mean I meet with my cardiologist once every six months. I mean that's how serious I am about making sure that everything is on track. And you know we talk about different diets and stuff like that, which aren't a real challenge for me to kind of convert to, because, like I said, I'll do what it takes.
Speaker 1:And so one of the things they talk about, for you know, good cardiac health is. You know, maybe don't eat so many peanuts but focus on, like almonds and pistachios and stuff like that. Those are really good from a protein perspective and they're kind of good for cardiac health in terms of just what they provide. And I said, okay, cool, I can do that, no problem, you know. So then a few weeks ago, I go to my urologist and I just recently had a scan to make sure everything is looking good there. And he says, yeah, we saw a couple of little minor kidney stones. He goes you probably won't have any trouble passing them or anything like that, but I just want to make you aware of them. And I said, okay, well, what can I do to make sure that I minimize that issue? And he goes well, the first thing you want to do is stay away from nuts, oh God.
Speaker 2:Don't eat almonds, don't eat pistachios, oh God.
Speaker 1:I'm not going really Give me a break, man. You just can't win. You can't win for losing. I swear it's just crazy sometimes.
Speaker 2:We all have to eat like the Matrix, just mush all the time, because that's the only thing Don't eat this, don't eat this. You can eat this, but don't eat that Right, right.
Speaker 1:But yeah, physical fitness is just really, really important to me and, like I said, I try to do something. In fact I'm trying to teach this to my son and daughter too Well, mostly my son, because my daughter gets her exercise in different ways working with the animals out on the farm and stuff like that. But I tell my son I said, I said, ethan, you want to get to the point where if you don't work out for and even if it's just like playing basketball, whatever, you know, if you don't, if you don't work out for like five days, then it really makes you feel weird, you know, and you get. You might even get a little bit irritable or whatever. But that, to me, is where I am right now in my life is it's like if I go more than three or four days without doing something, then unless I'm sick, then something's wrong. You know, I gotta, I gotta get back on track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm the same way.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for spending the time. Is there anything that we didn't get to talk about today that you really wanted to make sure that our listeners and people that will interact with this video to know or to do or to think about?
Speaker 1:Well, I think that one of the things I do in my free time is I produce a sports podcast that showcases athletes at the Naval Academy, and I do this because a lot of people don't know about the Naval Academy number one. A lot of people don't know about the Naval Academy number one. A lot of people don't realize that it is, in fact, a four-year institution. Somebody was asking me about the Army-Navy game one time and they actually thought they didn't understand how the Army-Navy game got played, because they thought that once a year people from the Army and the Navy just got together and practiced for about a month and then they played a game. They didn't realize there was two schools that compete. You know so, and the fact is we have a lot of elite athletes and their stories usually just go untold because nobody knows about them and certainly you're not going to see. I mean there's going to be certain exceptions. I mean, david Robinson is probably the most famous athlete of color to graduate from the Naval Academy and go on to become a world champion and Olympic champion and all that kind of stuff. But there are other athletes who participate in sports that you don't hear too much about. You know sports like rowing, for example. I'm a huge rowing fan, right, and the Naval Academy has got a great program there. Rugby they were national champions two years ago in rugby, beating the University of California Berkeley, you know in the finals. And then swimming and diving and track and field I'm a big track and field nut, and just being able to tell their story, in addition to sharing what they have to deal with while they are there, right, I mean, I've told people this a hundred times that when those athletes get out there to compete on the football field, basketball court, out on the water if they're rowing, or in the pool if they're swimming, on a tennis court, whatever there's 36 varsity sports, by the way, at Annapolis that is the easiest part of their day going out there and competing, because it's kind of where they get away from everything else that's going on academically and professionally and stuff like that. For others who may want to aspire to become, you know, officers in the Navy and the Marine Corps and just showing, hey, not only can you do that, but you can do this too, and it really does make you a more well-rounded individual and that's why I like doing it.
Speaker 1:The podcasts come out roughly every two to three weeks. I just put one out the other day on our national champion rowing team in 1984 that won a national championship and my two guests were two classmates of mine who were on that team and rowed in that boat. So yeah, it was a lot of fun and I try to highlight the athletes of color as much as I can as well. One of the athletes I had on a couple of years ago, she was just a fantastic track star. Her name was Molly Mangan and we had a fantastic track star. Uh, her name was molly mangan and, uh, we had a great conversation and just her name is just peppered all over those uh uh record books at the naval academy in terms of indoor and outdoor tracks. She was really something wow, that's neat.
Speaker 2:So how do they get to how they, how do folks get to your so?
Speaker 1:the name of the podcast is navy sports central and you can find it on anywhere you listen to podcasts. It's in every directory out there. But yeah, just type that into a search and it'll pop up. And we also have a group Facebook page. That it's a private page, but if you're that interested in Navy sports, all you got to do is just find it on Facebook. Just type in Navy Sports Nation and it'll bring you up. Just answer a couple of questions that get you in and that's just a really good way to follow Navy sports.
Speaker 1:We got two big games coming up tomorrow and basketball against army and, to be quite frank, we need to win both of those to really have a shot at winning our annual competition, because we compete in 26 sports overall and Navy's won that competition probably eight or nine years in a row. This year we got to kind of a slow start and we were behind nine to three until about two weeks ago. And then we won all four sports that day indoor and outdoor. We won men's and women's indoor track. We won that. We won rifle, rifle, and then we won um, what was the other one? Gymnastics. So that got us to nine seven. If we can win both basketball games, that'll get us even. Uh, we don't necessarily have to win both of them, but winning both of them, with wrestling coming up next week, would be a bonus, you know. So we'll see well.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being part of the podcast today. Thank you for sharing your story part of the podcast today. Thank you for sharing your story and just being vulnerable with all the things that you have. And so you know I would say, go to just check out his podcast and check out. You know who are some athletes that you may not know about, or you know some of the best in sports that we can find, best in sports that we can find. And so, if you found this thing.
Speaker 2:If you found this particular episode interesting, you know, go ahead and share it with somebody, somebody you think that might benefit from it. I would say, go ahead and subscribe, because you know, when you subscribe you get to see all the different guests that we have and I promise you, over the 130 some that we have, you will absolutely find somebody somewhere that you can identify with that you can say, hey, if that person can do it, I can do it too, or if that can be happening, you know all the wonderful things that we get from having these conversations and being excuse me in relationship with each other Right right.
Speaker 2:So you have any closing thoughts?
Speaker 1:No, I think that'll do it.
Speaker 1:I just I would like to reiterate, you know, one of the things we spoke about in terms of just physical health.
Speaker 1:I read a book called Outlive just recently and I the doctor's name that wrote it escapes me right now, but he's an oncologist and he speaks a lot to what I was alluding to before, about making sure that you're maintaining, you know, your physical health and there's probably some discussion on mental health as well physical health and there's probably some discussion on mental health as well, because you know, we're roughly the same age group and I think that as we get older, it's just going to be really, really important to have a quality life for as long as you can have it, and that's one of the things that was really great about my dad is that he was going strong all the way until the very end, and that's the way you want to live your life. You want to be productive, as productive as you can, for as long as you can, and you know when it's time for you to go. Then at least there's no regrets or anything like that.
Speaker 2:That's to me that's preferred as opposed to just kind of hanging around and just existing, because we just didn't take advantage of, you know, staying in good shape early on, absolutely, the book you said was Outlived when I find it I'll put it into the comments and it helped. It's so important because you have to enjoy your life, not existing life.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:All right, don't forget your God's greatest gift he loves you as you allow him to. You guys have an amazing day and we'll look forward to talking to you the next time.